Will either be as good as Vince Cable?
November 15th, 2007
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Watch Chris and Nick do what Gordon never had to
One thing that having contested leadership elections means, Parliamentary Labour Party members please note, is that the rivals get invited onto Question Time for a special leadership debate.
This can be a defining moment of a campaign and both Huhne and Clegg will have been training hard to ensure that they come over best.
For Huhne, the betting outsider and the man who has still not been forgiven by the party establishment for running against Ming last time, this could be his best chance. He needs to do very well this evening.
Clegg, who has been reported to have been less sure-footed in the hustings, simply has to ensure that the so-called better presentation skills that his supporters say he possesses, show through clearly.
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There’s been a lot of edge between the two men during the campaign and there might just be fireworks.
The one thing that tonight will probably show is that neither of the contenders is as good as Vince Cable who has been doing a brilliant job in the acting slot.
Wouldn’t it be great if there was a QT debate like this at the general election? Alas Brown is not going to agree - he didn’t get where he is today taking such risks.
Thank you to all those who contributed to last night’s thread about my future plans. I’ve got a number of thoughts which we’ll return to in the New Year.
Mike Smithson
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Ironically, for LibDems this debate might not be very useful.
The Prime Minister has to answer questions in the House, and also has to make a case for his espoused policies. Likewise the Leader of the Opposition (whose questions are more likely to come from political interviewers).
The LibDem leader has to do neither, aside from tonight.
The LibDem leader’s job is to enunciate one or two big ticket policy items that clearly differentiate the party from its bigger rivals, and to appear affable on as many afternoon chat shows and comedy quiz programmes as will have him. The Question Time format really is not relevant. Sorry, LibDem activists, but there it is.
The problem that Lib Dems face, Mike, is that both are excellent - as is Vince Cable too.
I wonder - writing well before this evening’s event - if PBC contributors would like to estimate how high the Lib Dem percentage will be in the next opinion polls….
But it will be useful to Lib Dems, John (1), in helping to make a very difficult choice between two outstanding candidates.
“the man who has still not been forgiven by the party establishment for running against Ming last time”
Translation: “The man who is not forgiven for opposing the lemmings who backed the Lib Dems into a two year cul-de-sac and who are now backing. . . .?
Tressage @ 3 — helpful but misleading: that’s the point. Members need to see how each will do on Loose Women or Have I Got News For You?
I know this is off topic but I am infuriated by the report that,”Ferrari has warned that Formula 1’s reputation may be damaged if Kimi Raikkonen loses his 2007 drivers’ world title in the court room.”
Ferrari didn’t say this when a court handed them the constructors’ title. It is increasingly clear to me that Ferrari don’t race they politic.
It will be good to see. For the LDs the best outcome is Chris wins this time. For the Conservatives and Labour the best outcome is Nick wins as there is a good chance of major LD losses (20+) at the next GE and the Leader will get the blame and be fatally damaged. Chris will probably be too old next time, whilst Nick will not. So I am hoping Nick wins.
Clegg is Cameron to Huhne’s Blair, it sometimes seems to me.
Huhne has that invaluable gift of sounding as if he is answering the question he’s been asked, even when he isn’t.
Clegg seems friendlier, even nicer, but as with Cameron in his early heir-to-Blair period, you can be left wondering quite what he wants to do.
A revised repeat of my earlier post wiped out for some reason!
Huhne has the edge - he’s got a thought out set of policies and as the outsider nothing to lose. Clegg (who really does look Dutch in the photo above) has been too careful and adverse to risk. He doesn’t bear comparison to Cameron who both had better presentation skills but also said he’d change the party, he didn’t appeal to the core interests but to their realisation that he’d be disruptive but in the end successful. Clegg is steady the ship but with a prettier face than Ming - so what?
3: If Huhne is such an ‘outstanding candidate’ how did he end up losing to Ming Campbell?
9 - I don’t agree. Huhne wants to appeal to the centre left core of activists. Clegg is undoubtedly more to the right. This makes him a little more edgy than Huhne in the LDs.
9 LOL!
Ted, how exactly do you look Dutch?
I think they’re both talented, as is Cable. The Lib Dems certainly have a better set of options than either of the other two parties would have if their respective leaders fell under a bus. I actually think Clegg is weaker than most Lib Dems realise. Cameron is often panned as being without depth, but if you actually look into his speeches to activists, rather than something where he’s going for the headline soundbite, you’ll find he has substance.
I just don’t see this with Clegg, who just seems to give very long answers filled with nice themes but doesn’t sound like he’s saying much. As someone said above, Huhne has the knack of saying something without giving away anything.
I also think both leaders will move their party to the right economics-wise: its just Clegg will be openly arguing his case while Huhne will attach a rightwars shift with leftwards rhetoric.
6- your post is incredibly partisan. Everybody (except apparently in the UK) knows that the FIA tried with all its might to give the championship to Hamilton.
They deprived Alonso of his fair chance to win the championship (ruling on an intra-team matter for the first time ever), they created the very weak “penalization of cars but not drivers” rule to keep hamilton’s title hopes alive…
Now Ron Dennis and Hamilton basically ask for a title they were not able to gain on the track, no matter how much they cheated… They have no shame!
I sincerely hope their claim is rejected.
Disclaimer: I am not and never have been a Ferrari fan. I am a Mac Laren fan ever since Alain Prost was there in the 1980ies BUT i know how to recognize when my favourite team lies and cheats.
12. By looking like this: http://www.fcbarcelonaonline.com/rdeboer1.jpg
Having spent a lot of time in the US, with its more varied gene pool, I become acutely aware of the “looks” of various European peoples when I travel round Europe. The English have a typical facial structure too.
On the betting front, on Betfair there does seem to be rather a lot of money on offer for Clegg around the 1.35 level. In contrast, Huhne is around 3.80, but there is not so much money available.
Obviously, the odds are saying that Clegg is the favourite. But can somebody interpret for me the amount of money? Does it signify anything?
14 But Chris, you forget that Hamilton is a media darling. He’s hot favorite for the Sport Personality Of The Year [SPOTY] award here, despite the fact that he didn’t win the World Title (due in part to his spat with his ‘team-mate’) and no longer lives in the UK (largely for tax reasons, I believe).
15. I work in Norway. Funny, Norwegians do not look at all like George Chakiris who played a Norwegian resistance leader in ‘633 Squadron’.
15 Hey, that’s Dick van Clogg! I used to play football with him. He used to play for the Cat and Ferret.
I remember he got me sent off for nutting him. Seems to have recovered his good looks since.
17- I understand this factor (it must be important for Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley)and I fully recognize the talent of the guy.
However, the crazy bullying of Alonso by UK tabloid “journalists” and this kind of silly legal stunts to try to win back the title are hugely damaging Hamilton’s reputation among the drivers and in the general public outside the UK.
We should have gone for Vince Cable last time - and to my knowledge I was the only LD on here in January last year saying that.
But he was right not to stand this time; despite being highly competent, the media narrative is in the wrong place for him to make a strong start from.
Still can’t decide between the two who are running, so will watch QT later with interest.
Trying not to cast aspersions - but once again the betting seems a bit strange on the LD leadership markets - last time it was in Huhne’s interest to be seen as more of a favorite than he was - this time it is in his interest not to be favorite, to be the underdog…
“Clegg, who has been reported to have been less sure-footed in the hustings” - I thought he was the more sure-footed canditate at the hustings I was at and there were plenty of others who argreed with me but it is a bit like PMQs (and i have been Amazed at the partisan reporting on this site about PMQs) - people like who they like.
20. Alors! l’Albion perfide encore!
21 tpfkar. At least you Liberal Democrats have a choice (and an interesting one at that).
Labour supporters were denied a choice for their leader. They had to make do with the Deputy Leadership. Mind you, they got that wrong, so maybe they are not to be trusted. (Harperson, indeed! Harumph!)
23- As usual…
15 - it’s a bit stereotypical but I have noticed there are certain national characteristics in faces. If you are abroad, you can spot a Brit anywhere - in any climate - by a ruddy complexion. I can’t think of any other nationalities (apart from the Irish) who are so red. In Finland, I was even regarded as quite dark skinned.
There is a Dutch look, certainly. Face looks a little pushed in, upturned nose?
Hope I haven’t offended anybody… let’s celebrate our diversity - and our redness.
I wonder if Mike’s personal opinion on the leadership has changed - I know he was very open a few weeks ago about being unable to forgive Clegg for allowing Ming to be leader. This is still my opinion - I am finding it very difficult to forgive Clegg for this and feel Huhne must be applauded for his chutzpah last time. It’s surely exactly that kind of ambitious spirit that us LDs need thoughout the party and definately in the leadership. The 500 maj. thing is a bonus for me - he’d be the most dedicated LD in the country given what he’d lose.
When I am abroad, I often get taken for a Russian, SBS. I expect it is that they just don’t see that many Russians….
O/T Breaking news
Quentin Davies’ niece arrested for homicide in France
French police just announced that they have arrested Jessica Davies , 28 yrs old. She has handed herself to the police on Sunday for having killed with a knife a 24 y.o guy she picked up in a bar in St Germain en Laye (leafy western suburb of Paris)on staurday night.
She was described as “extremely drunk” and could not provide any explanation even when interrogated on the next day.
Chris(from Paris) @ 20 re Formula One. In fact, the commonly held conspiracy theory is that the FIA is biased towards Ferrari.
27 - “I am finding it very difficult to forgive Clegg for this and feel Huhne must be applauded for his chutzpah last time” - how are relations between the two men. Was there are POrtillo Redwood type spat?
“When I am abroad, I often get taken for a Russian, SBS. I expect it is that they just don’t see that many Russians…”
Bizarre. There are Russians everywhere these days. Do you have wonderful cheekbones?
25. Yeah, the Dutch often have a particular look round the eyes - I think its the eyebrows in a V-shape that does it.
I don’t think I have a “ruddy” look as such but my skin is pale and thus more obviously pink than those with darker complexions. I also have other English attributes: a long face (rather than round or square), a narrow but long and forward nose, and a soft, rounded chin.
Alas no, SBS. It must be the snow on my boots….
30- Well they were, during the long reign of Schumacher. But they need a new poster boy now. And Hamilton is just what they need: young, handsome, black, anglo-saxon… ideal!
No idea - they seem friendly enough, although Huhne has noticabley been going for the more personnal attacks - he’s got the will to succeed!
33 - ok pink perhaps. But those northern Europeans are certainly whiter - and less pink - than Brits.
Regarding physical stereotypes, many French people think of Prince Charles as their benchmark of British males.
I personnally think that my “English stereotype” is probably a cross of Jonny Wilkinson, Alan Shearer and Tim Henman.
The fact is when the UK political cycle moves rightwards as is currently happening the Lib Dems suffer. Witness poor results in 1970 and 1979. Clegg’s supporters are blaming this natural cyclical force on the failure of their left of centre policies of the last 3 elections and are seeking to take their party rightwards at least in terms of economic policy. Economic liberalism will be matched by a socially liberal stance in civil liberties, immigration etc.
Whether this stance will be popular with the public is far more questionable.
I know whomever the LibDems choose, he will be proven to be the wrong choice:-). They have form in that.
20 30 F1
Anyone who thinks most of F! is not “fixed” is imo naive. Remember that German chap who used to win all the races by shunting his competitors off the track. In any other sport he would have been banned for life.
F1 of course is not a sport. it’s a procession of extremely fast cars chased round the world by extremely fast wimmin. The cars only race occasionally to keep the public paying. After teh start it’s usually 90 minutes of extreme tedium and lots of noise. Makesadartsmatchlook xciting.
10 He wasn’t well known at the time to anyone who wasn’t either a hustings-attending activist or an inhabitant of the South East Euro region, hence his rubber-chickening over the last couple of years.
I thought it interesting that on the online forum last week which I read after the event Huhne was thought to have done well - this is a phenomenon many activists went through in the 05 election, coming out the hustings thinking “actually, that Huhne bloke’s rather good” - he did very well among these activists.
14 It’s well known that Ferrari get away with almost anything and other teams can’t. Though I would equally agree that Hamilton as a driver seems to have more luck than even Schumacher who managed to finish on the podium in a mere 60% of his races and complete only 80% of them.
Re. lying and cheating, seems a bit funny to me:
i) that the mechanic’s wife then took the document to a public photocopying machine (I mean, would you?)
ii) that the (presumably English) photocopier could recognise the wife of a McLaren back-room employee (most people wouldn’t even recognise the back-room employee, let alone his wife, and that’s even after all the publicity he’s now had as a result of the case let alone before)
iii) that the photocopier recognised that the possession of the documents must be unauthorised
iv) that the person (this is still someone working in a photocopying shop we’re talking about, not a Formula One engineer) was so confident about his diagnosis that he thought to make the effort to try to get in touch with Ferrari about it
v) that the person (still the photocopier) was able to get his message through to Scuderia Ferrari in a way that they would take seriously.
As a sequence of events I’ve heard of truth being stranger than fiction, but you just couldn’t make it up.
26 “There is a Dutch look, certainly. Face looks a little pushed in, upturned nose?”
Well Dick’s face certainly looked a little pushed in after I nutted him, although it seems to have recovered now.
And talking of nutters, where’s Ave It this evening? Who is to give us a calm, balanced appraisal of tonite’s performances by the two Liberal Democrat candidates on QT tonite, if PB’s most objective observer is away?
37. Agreed.
38. Well Charles has all the features we’ve listed: a certain pinkness, long face, long & narrow nose, rounded chin. I actually think there’s a slight difference between the North and the South. Us Southerners tend to have longer, softer faces (Charles, Wilkinson, Cameron) whereas Northerners tend to have broader faces with squarer jaws (Shearer, Hague).
Anyway, we should probably stop before some Aryan supremacist website links here.
40 Madasafish - Did you not proof read that post?
Or did somebody slip some gin in your tank?
38. Although I should say that Chirac is my stereotype for an older Frenchman, and either Bayrou or Platini for someone younger.
Apologies if it’s been posted before but Ben Brogan has a Blair slam on Brown:
“Two trivial distractions this afternoon from the task of decoding the Whitehall buzz on the 28-day extension business.
The PM’s unflappable spokesman at the 3.45 listing among the PM’s engagements his attendance, with Ed Balls, at the launch of an anti-bullying initiative. For some reason people in the room found it funny.
Tony Blair taking questions after a speech today. Questioner: “Do you think Gordon Brown has done a good job as Prime Minister?” TB: “Erm, yes. That’s all I’m saying otherwise I might get into trouble.”
40 - “I know whomever the LibDems choose, he will be proven to be the wrong choice:-). They have form in that.”
Not exactly. I’ll grant you Ming. Kennedy was probably better than Hughes/Bruce/Ballard/Rendell. Ashdown was better than Beith. Steel was better than Pardoe. And in a vote of MPs (all 12), Thorpe was better than Hooson and Lubbock.
But history may have been different but for a tragic car accident in December 1986. Surely Penhaligon would have become the first leader of the merged party.
Huhne is actually a good communicator. He nearly persuaded me (a Lib Dem euro-sceptic - don’t laugh there are a few of us) of the benefits of Europe at a Party dinner a couple of years ago by well-reasoned and detailed argument. I rather wish the membership would elect him but I suspect they will go for the more photogenic Clegg.
Test,
The reason the press found the anti bulling thing with Ed Balls funny is that he is such a bully, and many of them have been on the receiving end.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/15/nscot115.xml
o/t The Devolution piss take continues at speed.
That’s a seriously contemptuous remark by Tony Blair, in public to a press question. It must aggravate him watching statist Brown chuck his efforts down the pan.
“The economics man regards himself as the senior partner even though the two friends-turned-rivals entered Parliament at the same time.(…)You guessed it: Gordon Brown and Tony Blair in 1994. But history is repeating itself as Chris Huhne and Nick Clegg ”
http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/andrew_grice/article3
124275.ece
49. Hmmm yes Brown fits the bully bill rather well too, doesn’t he?
52-Sorry:
http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/andrew_grice/article3124275.ece
Last one out, turn off the lights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/15/nemi115.xml
Brown’s a bully whereas Cameron is just fairly forthright with internal party discipline - right?
29. What a great catch Quentin Davies has proved for Labour. Another of Brown’s pathetic stunts backfires…
…imagine the hysterical rantings we would be being subjected to now by Roger, Tyson et al. if Davies were still a Conservative MP - ‘degenerate Tory toffs’ etc. Hilarious.
57 - “Another of Brown’s pathetic stunts backfires…” “imagine the hysterical rantings…”
Hilarious that you can be so hypocritical? The words pot and kettle spring to mind.
What the hell does what Mr Davies’ niece arrest got to do with anything, even with QD’s judgement, ability or career?
FWIW I do think the Lib Dems will benefit from the leadership contest, whoever wins.
It has (so far) been conducted in a similar spirit to the Cameron/Davis contest in 2005 and the public love to see that politicians can disagree in an adult fashion, based on differing intellectual argument, with mutual respect.
What I haven’t yet seen, except for Trident, is any serious policy debate going on (but then a. I’m not a Lib Dem and b. I haven’t been paying that much attention).
55 - I enjoyed the Telegraph piece. For those who didn’t click on the link, it was about how countries are having to cope with record numbers of people moving to live there, many of whom have no intention of working. Sadly Sir Andrew Green from MigrationWatch didn’t comment on whether these countries should adopt tougher immigration controls in order to keep out the influx of, erm, British nationals emigrating.
59. The role played by members in producing/voting on policy means it isn’t seen as good form to have major policy debates during a leadership election.
44
Sorry.
Disleksia strykes agane:-)
58. Nice to see the Lib Dems sticking up for their Labour chums again.
Just fair play, I think, Jeff.
59. maybe, except with one crucial difference… nobody cares. Id completely forgotten about it till a few days ago, and i follow politics!! the media havent reported it, the tv news hasnt reported it. no one is interested in the lib dems anymore. people want to see, and are interested in, the main event. Its like being at a festival. people stand around, listening to the support acts in the spirit of a festival, but really only waiting for the main act to come on stage. who do people remember when they leave? the main act.
63 - I’m not. I just hate “hysterical rantings”. Especially hypocritical ones.
59 FWIW I do think the Lib Dems will benefit from the leadership contest, whoever wins.
I agree and expect to see them at 18%-19% in the polls as a result. The real killer question is where that approx 4% of extra support will principally come from.
67 - I wish I agreed with you. Christmas is coming and the leadership election will not get so much coverage. And Parliament will be shut. 16-17% tops for the moment I think. Things may move up again by about March.
68 But the point is that the Great British Public always over react to political events/changes. Like for instance Brown, in achieving an 11% lead in the late summer as a result of ….well doing very little actually and then Cameron succeeding in wiping out this lead in just two weeks by offering a cut in IHT and speaking for an hour without notes at the Tory conference.
I’m certainly not saying that the Lib Dems will be able to maintain 18%-19%, but I expect them to reach that level.
68 I’m with PfP on this one SBS. In fact I would strongly recommend buying LD seats in the spread markets a bit sharpish, and definitely before the next polls are published.
You can currently buy at 49 with SI. That’s too low. The downside risk is negigible.
Or negligible even!
Any opinions on who is the better bet for LD leadership. Clegg 1.35 Huhne 3.8
Best bet is Huhne by a clear margin, although there have been no polls there is little suggestion that lib dem members are favouring one over the other and so the odds are out of kilter.
Whoever leads the Lib Dems, they can’t so anything about the 2 party politics that has developed. At the next election, it will be a real contest which floating voters will want to feel a part of.
Add to the fact that this leadership election is not really capturing the public imagination in the way Davis/Cameron did. It’s had little news airtime, and I’ll be interested in whether the rating are down on Question Time tonight. No one seems bothered.
72 There appears to have been a slight preference for Huhne on PB.com as well as from the hustings based on those who have reported here. It’s strange therefore that Huhne’s odds are 8 times those of his rival. Having said that, bookies have a strange knack of usually calling these things correctly.
75. Let’s not forget that Davis, Kerry, Gore, Portillo, Clarke, Benn were all favourites once. Kerry even shorter than Clegg.
74 Woody662 “Whoever leads the Lib Dems, they can’t so anything about the 2 party politics that has developed. At the next election, it will be a real contest which floating voters will want to feel a part of.”
I think that you are right, it looks that way at the moment, but a lot can change in two years.
Whoever is the LibDem leader really matters, because there is a greater possibility that he will be the kingmaker in a hung Parliament than at any time in the last 30-odd years.
In that case what the country needs is someone who will play fair by all sides. Whilst both Huhne and Clegg seem fundamentally decent, it seems to me that Huhne favours Labour more. (Or at least, Labour minus its authoritarian tendencies)
76 Indeed so, Woody - to which list we should add the name of Kinnock.
75. Yes, I backed Huhne at 4.0 on the assumption that he’d move in, in no small part due to the comments on here - though also because of his performance last time when he performed better than many might have expected.
While I didn’t really expect him to win - although I didn’t discount the possibility - my prime motivation was to lay off the bet later. That I have done, but at odds which are still a good deal longer than I thought he might move in to. Obviously, any profit is welcome, but his stickiness between 5/2 and 3/1 is still worth noting for those who might be thinking along similar lines.
It is true that 5/2 is available with a conventional bookmaker, which makes anything shorter than that on an exchange a little pointless - but then in that situation, the pressure of money should push Huhne’s odds in at the bookies as well. That it hasn’t suggests that enough people view the range as value.
77. Well perhaps but I really can’t see the Lib Dems in coalition. Proping up Labour if they get less votes than the Tories could well destory both parties for many years and they know it, and Lib Dems hate Tories. (As this site testifies)
75 In a two-horse race, the odds become distorted, PfP.
I’d estimate the probablity of Clegg winning at around 60%. That’s 6/4 on. So ask me who I think the winner will be, and I’ll say Clegg. Ask me where the value lies, and I’ll say Huhne, without a doubt.
79 No, David, for once I disagree. (!)
It’s the lack of polls that I think is causing it. That means the punters are flying blind. Nobody is prepared to risk much and there’s a lack of liquidity. The market is becalmed.
I think woody is right at the moment about the trend to two-party politics - I’m finding more voters than usual saying “I’m wavering between Tories and Labour”. Of course the new guy will get a fair amoun tof attention at his first PMQ outing, policy launched, etc., but certainly the first task will be to keep media interest.
Cable appeals to people like me who like serious, dry politics. It’s a bit unfashionable, so the LDs are probably better off going for either of the two. I think Huhne’s extra edge reflects his outsider status - he has to shake up the contest. It probably remains true (and visible on pb.com) that Clegg worries the Tories more, as he’s visibly in the same part of the wood as Cameron.
Ryan at 65 I have quoted you on my Blog tonight, hope you don’t mind, but I found your festival analogy highly amusing and very relevant so I nicked it.
The Libdems should go for Huhne because of the age difference, Clegg could then be second string. When the Libdems get fed up with Huhne, they’ve got Clegg to fall back on.
83. Nick. As you are around. Re the last thread I think. I wasn’t the poster to heve described Alistair Campbell’s diary as “repulsive”. I’ve not read it but did see extracts on the telly. I bet I would find it quite interesting but everyone knows he held the meaty stuff back so I haven’t bothered. But no, certainly wasn’t me.
83. Nick they are both from the same wood! They have obviously never grown up. Once I left school I never went back, but these two - straight back to Westminster. Bet they were really disappointed when they realised they couldn’t wear top hat and tails!
And Mike, stop talking up Vince; it was people talking up Ming and saying how good he was at PMQs that got the Lib Dems in this mess in the first place!
83 - *I think woody is right at the moment about the trend to two-party politics - I’m finding more voters than usual saying “I’m wavering between Tories and Labour”.*
You might even be correct - to be honest i’ve seen no evidence that the two party-one policy thing, the lifeblood of power hungry nu-labour, is going to waver. Well done. You must be very proud.
87 - Ming was only talked up by idiots.
81. PtP. I would rate it 1/2 Clegg, 2/1 Huhne. Unusually I disagree with you from the previous thread that the betting on this will remain static due to the lack of polling evidence. If Huhne performs well on QT shortly I expect his odds to reduce sharply. If not then yes it’s probably status quo.
I’m also not sure about your view that the LibDem seats spread will move upwards as a result of this contest. At around 50 they already seem pretty high to me. Improved polling, which isn’t a given, would justify that spread position but not necessarily see it moving upwards, in my view.
84. haha, u wouldnt be gordon brown by any chance?!
They’re going into the stalls. Under starters orders!
I like Huhne’s tie.
“Libdem” special across the front - not going to please the LD PB purists.
92 Noted with interest, StJohn.
Let’s see!
(Huhne loses the tie contest. Always a mistake to wear a pattern on TV. It looks confused.)
QuestionTime: 4 minutes in
Huhne looking much more professional so far.
rubbish first question.
Clegg is much better it looks
to be fair, I asked a very rubbish question at the PB hustings, but I was very hungover.
Clegg:
Asked why he criticized Huhne…
“Did I say that [...] I honestly can’t remember what I said”
Everybody laughs at him
Digging himself deeper
They’re both so much better than Cameron or Brown - that much is already obvious.
Clegg in a bit of a hole over his memory…. Huhne looking the better so far (to this disinterested observer anyway)
Huhne hits back:
My ‘controversial’ policies = replacing Trident
Spontaneous applause
I hope we’re not going to see the astroturf machine getting a run out tonight…
Clegg kissing ass:
“Would love both Ming and Campbell in my team”
one was an alocholic and the other was old
Clegg off to a better start, although he was given a better start by DD (and subsequently managed to make DD’s question look a little silly).
I think his tie may have the edge, too.
Clegg in a hole - Huhne doing reasonably well ; yet they are both saying roughly the same things.
Still loving Huhne’s tie
Q: if Ming and Kennedy were so good, why did you get rid of them?
Clegg: I’ve always been a great supporter of Ming
(Kennedy?)
Huhne’s tie is appalling
IMHO Clegg’s tie is better BTW
All the flack from the audience so far aimed at Clegg
Looking at ties is completely stupid. I never even noticed them before reading your comments
Stupid questions/interuptions from the floor seem more stupid than a normanl QT - I think LDs expect more.
Not doing well with this CK question. Everyone knows he was toppled in the end thanks to Cable, Teather and co…
The Hung Parliament question!(Good joke from Huhne)
115 - don’t hate the player hate the game.
Huhne’s answer on Hung Parl was weak. So is Huhne saying he would not enter a formal coalition?
If only Ming could have answered the hung parl. question so easily…
120 - wrong - it was a good answer from Huhne.
Huhne got bogged down on CK question but doing better now. However I like the way Nick has turned the coalition question on its head.
Clegg seems much more nervous and far less sure-footed.
Also, his teeth are very discoloured. It’s not very attractive.
I could feasibly see Huhne as the holder of one of the top Tory Shadow posts, or a junior Labour cabinet MP ‘on the up’.
As for Clegg, I could only imagine him holding his own as a very junior member of either other party’s cabinets. He lacks gravitas and he lacks conviction.
Yes Valerie - I agree, Clegg takes this Hung Parl question.
1-1 now I think
Huhne: joke and red and blue faces - chuckles
Says neither a 2nd rate tory or laborite, warns about future Lab-Con alliances/coalitions. Says constitutional changes should come before ‘partnership politics’.
Clegg:
Will form alliances as long as it furthers ‘liberal ideas’. Says he will break ‘two party politics’ within two elections. DD has to step in to remind him of the question.
121. He did - he made it clear he would support Labour.
“A rush to the same crass, callow, conservative ground…” - very good. Huhne’s a lot more comfortable with words (or a lot better rehearsed) than Clegg.
Clegg stammers a bit at the beginning of each answer.
There will never be such a grand coalition - they are using this red herring to dodge this very difficult question. Very clever.
Meanwhile, they are saying they will join whichever party offers them what they want.
haha they are suggesting labour and Tories might end up in coalition, good one!
Who’s that Republican american who called the Con race. Whoever he says gets more votes then that’s who i’d vote for.
Huhne is impressing me more at the moment. He impressed me more on the pbc hustings too.
Question3 - Trident
Clegg’s getting very stressed at a woman who believes they’re not answering correctly. Huhne merely gets more forceful with his points. Far more impressive.
“they are suggesting labour and Tories might end up in coalition”
If they’ve got the same policies why would you rule out a coaltition?
wow, what a mess theyve both got themselves into on hung parliament. surely both candidates know they are likely to be king maker after the next election. they should both have polished responses. Pendling the line that we maybe the opposition next time round is ridiculus.
surely they shouldve said “we dont no what policies the two main parties will have at the next election. If one party has more liberal ideas than the other, then we’ll be more likely to support that party. but we’ll not commit to any party”
Clegg sounds like he’s at the debating club or something… don’t like his tone
133: Huhne is, again, doing better than Clegg but the size of Huhne’s majority makes him a silly choice.
Will either of them ever get round to answering a question instead of the endless waffle?
Huhne in a mess on missiles. Looks very much the rearmer.
139 - remember the incumbency benefits, as well as the fact that no major party leader has lost their seat since, ooh, Lansbury…? It just doesn’t happen!
139 - remember the incumbency benefits, as well as the fact that no major party leader has lost their seat since, ooh, Lansbury…? It just doesn’t happen!
Trident question showing Clegg at his explaining best, I think. Huhne has a different approach but more ‘political’ (and less clear).
Clegg being painted as a peacenik… since it’s hard to see Nick as idealistic he looks opportunistic.
Huhne comes off as much more grounded in reality (talking about money) on this defence issue.
Huhne very passionate about trident - I don’t agree with him but he came across very well.
Huhne is being so nasty to Clegg!
I’m a Tory and so not hugely fussed who gets the job - but Huhne is walking this. I’m putting some cash on him right now.
it’s PB PMQs all over again - we like who we like.
What was Huhne’s Trident stance? My viewing was interrupted by an unwelcome visitor…
141, Londoner
“Huhne in a mess on missiles. Looks very much the rearmer.”
I think for the average member of the public his reply actually reassuring, less ‘loony left’. Can’t say how it’ll play for LD members
Huhne much better. Very intelligent, clear authorative and informative. I listen to the detail of what he says. Clegg is irritating “mood music”. Huhne a clear leader who I can see holding that brief at PMQs very well.
139 - I just couldn’t see Huhne loosing his seat if he became leader. Would any set of constituents really replace the leader of a major party with an anonymous local MP, I wonder.
150.
Basically to have a smaller and independent nuclear capability, and not unilaterally disarm. That’s what I understand.
Both speaking very well now - very authorative. However this is Huhne’s issue and he has clearly won. Bet Clegg wants this to move on.
IMHO Huhne now 2-1 up
Huhne played the anti-american card well there though. But Clegg does well on son of star wars.
Question 4 - Tax Cuts
Huhne comes across a lot better on Tv than at the hustings I feel.
154 - Thank you. It surprises me, though. I thought that Huhne was very much the disarmer…
Huhne gets another laugh
New Question 4 - Similar candidates?
139: 568 is far too low.
Dimbleby seems to bully Clegg again
159, me too - but I haven’t been following the leadership contest for a while.
Nothing to suggest that Clegg is favorite so far - as is the PB understanding, Huhne is the value bet.
Another Huhne laugh for self-deprecation. Who said he was the ‘Gordon Brown’ candidate…?
huhne won the missle battle. im a fan of trident, but respect his passion on the issue, and his sensible approach towards iran and north korea in keeping a different deterent
Clegg bleats on about something or another - Huhne takes the lead by stressing his varied background and going on the economy.
On the basis of this I’d vote Huhne if I was a Lib Dem. It is interesting that some say he’s bad in person.
Did Clegg really just use the “I’m far too British to tell you how good I am” argument? Dearie me…
Clegg seems to dismiss Huhne’s CV building…
Clegg is now sounding like a B Grade Cameron, he cant do the earnest thing very well
Huhne selling himself well…
Conviction politician (kept running to win his seat)
Serious press journalist
Started own business
Brings in real issues (economics etc)
Clegg:
Uni lecturer
“Anger” motivates me. Leftist rhetoric, “save the kids”
Clegg’s finally come into his own when asked for his reasons as to what motivated him to get into politics. He even topped Huhne on this one and now Huhne looks less passionate…
Finally (!) Clegg seems to show some passion … his list of angry statements was good.
Huhne goes back to policy now - equality this time…
174,
He sounds like a phoney
Clegg is doing human in line with rest of his campaign - Huhne more ‘political’, also in line with rest of campaign.
Liked the passion from Nick - he needs to get better at talking to the camera as well as the room
Good passion from Nick about injustice. Sounded authentic.
Huhne leads with his cv: Clegg trumps with passion.
someone keeps laying Huhne at 3.7 on betfair, maybe ‘doing a Huhne’ on him!
My own view so far is that this is almost exactly even.
143. The Liberals lost two consecutive leaders in two consecutive general elections. Samuel in 1935 and Sinclair in 1945….
Lansbury never lost his seat a leader of the Labour party…
Oh no! Clegg blows it with the “People’s” Health Service … glib.
174. yes - I was about to say ‘calm and human’ before he ramped it up, at the right moment IMO.
Just got a txt from my neutral brother - “old man dimbley must be missing his seat”
Isn’t Clegg going on about Patient Passports aka Howard circa 05?
This is so much better compared to the Cameron-Davis debate 2 years ago. (Which Cameron lost, of course.)
“i miss the token celeb” ho hum
Amazed Nick is selling himself as a leftist firebrand… “People’s Health Service”. Maybe it’ll work, but it clashes with the image I had of him before.
Huhne fires a shot over Clegg’s bow…
I agree this is better than the Tory debate in 05.
I now have Huhne 3-2 up
187. No, and I think Clegg’s winning this one (health) by coming at it and explaining it from a different angle.
Someone tell me what separates the LDs, the Tories and Labour over the issue of public service reform…
From the eight minutes I managed to watch of tonight’s QT, I think it’s clear which man is going to win the backing of most Lib Dem voters…
….David Cameron.
I could be happy with either of these two as leader
196 - agreed - they’re both excellent.
Clegg has done better on the education question. Good line about not dragging his kids into politics.
3-3
Huhne: vocational training, no compulsory education until 18
Clegg: leftist, redistribution rhetoric
Clegg has the terrible habit of shaking his head (as if saying no) while saying yes.
No knockout blows, and the betting has hardly moved.
183 - Cheers for that. Hence how they ended up under the control of an alcoholic leader for far too long, I guess. Hmm…cyclical.
Why did Lansbury go, then? Was he just ‘too old’ and so stepped down for his deputy…?
Clegg is really a mini-Cameron
Young people - Huhne right to broaden out this question. His answer will play better with a wider audience.
4-3 Huhne
Clegg does well on education - but it’s his issue I suppose.
there hospital policy sounds identical to camerons
surely if you like the sound of that policy, you’ll vote for the party that has the best chance of implimenting that policy which is the conservatives. they’ll both be a bonus to the conservatives.
202. Indeed.
Clegg trying to link Cameron with Thatcherism. LibDems and Labour just haven’t learnt how to cope with Cameron … it just won’t work.
181. I agree noisy summer. Someone seems to be holding Clegg’s price down. I’ve laid some.
Betting aside, I really think the LibDems should choose Huhne. He is clearly one of the great talents of his political generation and politics would be enriched by his leadership of the LibDems. And his humour.
Shame no-one asked my underpants question?
Huhne’s Reagan joke was badly delivered and went down poorly.
Perhaps he is the LD’s Brown after all!
Huhne’s attack on Cameron is better - focusing on lack of real world experience. His answer is just better put and expressed.
5-3 Huhne
Huhne better on his analysis of Cameron.
Clegg: Cameron is a thatcherite
Huhne: A party hack/PR man
Huhne: “If I’m elected, Nick will be one of the key people for the future of the party…”
In other words, let me get in now, and I’ll eventually step down for you?
Gordo and Dave must be shaking in their boots with these two,what a mistake not to go for Vince Cable.
I’m going to vote for the opposite of whoever Cllr Antony Little goes for - So i’m going for Clegg.
I’m a Tory who has had enough, going to bed. But on tonights performances I am going to sleep very soundly.
LD’s appear to have to choose between Private Pike and Mr Bean.
Quite a good debate (but some lousy questions). Neck and neck for the first half of the show, but then Clegg pulled away.
Both good. Chris better I thought and certainly better than last year. And both much better than Ming.
It was a good debate - and, overall, quite close but I feel Huhne had it in terms of both what he said and how he said it. As a Tory I have always said that I was more worried about facing Huhne than Clegg and this hasn’t changed my mind.
213, JohnF:
“Gordo and Dave must be shaking in their boots with these two,what a mistake not to go for Vince Cable.”
Agreed.
Neither are great candidates, but Huhne probably a safer bet for the LDs.
Despite my bro’s negative txts throughout his girlfriend is going to join the LibDem facebook group. oh yeah - Vote LibDem.
But as, Steven, you think they were both better than Brown and Cameron I don’t think we’ll pay you very much attention.
Badly chosen questions, and badly chaired (as usual) by Dimbleby. But a great contest, with two great candidates - who would be candidates for the leadership in whichever party they’d chosen.
200. No, no knockout blows, just a good debate. Excellent party showcase.
Thought Clegg had a dodgy first twenty minutes, but came out on top in the end. He did very well to stop Huhne getting away with claiming he wants to disarm when really he wants a new weapons system. He also managed to repel the idea that he was in favour of an insurance based NHS.
221 - you were obviously were paying attention to me earlier, ha ha.
Right - I’ll call that as a ‘whoever you supported at the start of the programme, you’re supporting them even more now.’ The betfair odds have not moved, which is entirely consistent with this.
Huhne - very solid, superb grasp of policy, intellectual but well-communicated, good tone and style when answering questions. Felt he was the one out of the two saying what he believed rather than jumping on what he thought would be popular/topical.
Clegg - Stronger on Education, his best moment was in saying what he was angry about as his motivation to be in politics. Didn’t even take a pause before answering questions - a bit aggressive perhaps? Bit more fire in his belly.
But - both were all over the place on the coalition question. Even the poser of the question in the hall said that neither of them had answered the question. Would it really be that naive to answer as follows:
-We don’t yet know what will be in the manifestos.
-We have a responsibility to implement as much of our own manifesto as we are able to.
-People will have voted for us because they want to see our policies enacted, and are not as tribal as most Westminster politicians.
-We will take our decisions at the time, in the interests of the party and the country.
As for me, I’m still undecided, but think I know which way I’m heading. But let’s face it, either would be a huge improvement over the mediocrity of the last 18 months.
I did, however, feel that the BBC had it in for Clegg - Huhne didn’t get the treatment that Clegg did.
The two years cameron has spent wooing the lib dem voters with liberal policies, particularly towards the NHS, has/is about to pay dividens. when listening to them explain there NHS policy, i just thought i cant believe there nicking tory policy. Cameron is a genius. all those tory posters who were moaning and critizing camerons liberal approach at the start must surely see now why he has done it. the lib dems have become an advertising board for the tories.
Interestingly, Huhne would be in to 3.4 on betfair if someone put 20 quid on him, but it’s not happening as far as I can see.
226 Fair point. But I guess Huhne was glad to get off. Thought he seemed tired towards the end. Perhaps it was the fluffed Reagan joke.
Didn’t Brown mess up an unfunny Reagan joke in his one man election?
Good debate, close in terms of who ‘won’ but, as it’s policy detail that I’m looking for and a different look than the other two parties Huhne finishes ahead. Clegg puts me off because he sounds and looks like Cameron, something that will not play well for him with the electorate. I also fear that he is less well placed to gain votes from both main parties.
Re last night:
Mike - good luck with the full time running of pb.com. will this mean a regularly updated schedule of yellow and red cards? lol
All - glad my missing presence was noted. I am back and would accordingly request to Mike that the site be renamed aveitpolitics.com. I am prepared (Mike) for you to be allowed to use this name in response to a £100,000 consideration to me!
LOL
PS Con gain Austria (not that we will be there next year)
PPS LOL McLaren
I only watched for a few minutes when both were making utter fools of themselves on the hung Parliament question (Huhne was simply risible). However, I did think Clegg was really rather impressive on Wednesday’s Daily Politics.
Regardless of Marcus Wood’s cheap jibe - Huhne was the clear winner. For the man who is claimed as the Lib Dems great communicator Clegg was a Cameronesque light weight.
Given the end of Brown’s honeymoon - maybe the best place to be is to be experienced, serious and radical. Huhne fitted that bill very well and would fit Ming’s USP without the age disbenefits - he ought to be in the betting odds much closer to Clegg.
201. The following statement at the Fulham East by-election in 1933 did for Lansbury: ‘I would close every recruiting station, disband the Army and disarm the Air Force. I would abolish the whole dreadful equipment of war and say to the world “do your worst”.’
Labour won, but events soon proved Lansbury to be hopelessly naive…
234: LDs = LOL, you can go back to SW london knowing you will win 0 seats next time. In the area
235 - Wasn’t the crushing contemptuous outburst from Ernest Bevin, leader of the mighty TGWU, about Lansbury “hawking his conscience from Conference to Conference” instrumental in his resignation?
Rubbish, Dan. There was no clear winner tonight. Just two very good candidates on offer. A neutral can see that. Why does a Lib Dem feel the need to slag off one of his own?
Feedback on the BBC News 24 programme is terrible for the LDs:
- Significantly fewer messages to the BBC compared to an average Question Time
- Numerous messages saying the LDs are a complete waste of time etc
Ave it. Has anyone ever told you what a prat you come over as? I don’t know you, and I am sure that in person you’re a nice bloke, but in writing you have the wit of my 9 year old son, but without the endearing qualities that young children have when they are trying to be funny.
237. Apparently, Lansbury, who was a Christian Pacifist, had to insist on hs own resignation as leader, over the wishes of most in the party, who begged him to stay… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lansbury
One by election apparently tonight -
Lincolnshire CC Heighington & Washingborough Conservative seat
2005 result in brackets
Con 877 (1750)
Lab 206 (1534)
Lib Dem 137 (-)
BNP 126 (-)
UKIP 52 (419)
Ind 21 (-)
turnout 26.2%
Anyone know the background?
239 - why does that surprise you? There were only two Lib dems so all supporters of other parties attack us. Would be the same for any party’s leadership special. Anyway, how many people watch BBC News 24’s QT Xtra???
226. tpfkar. You’re right. The odds haven’t shifted at all yet. I predicted they would if Huhne was a clear winner. I think he was a clear winner. But the market is stuck.
Possible explanations.
1. I’m wrong. Huhne didn’t win.
Possible. It’s clear to me that Huhne is a long way ahead of Clegg in terms of political talent. But if the LibDem electorate or politicalbetting community disagree then I’m a dutchman! (Pace Nick von Clegg).
2. The price effect is yet to happen.
3. Serious commentators such as “The Mighty Smithson” have yet to opine and move the markets in whichever direction.
4. Someone is supporting Nick Clegg’s market price artificially.
5. PtP was right all along!
Obviously this last explanation is unacceptable so I am seeking an explanation from the first 4 hypotheses.
238 Yes, I agree, Melissa. It was a draw - a fairly amicable one.
In a sense, that makes Clegg the winner, because he’s favorite, but it’s still an open contest.
Nite all. Cheltenham tomorrow.
Is Portillo pissed on This Week?
240 - have i ever told you that you are a spanner?
You will not be allowed shares in the new pb.com
Now go to bed its nursery school for you tomorrow!
(PS I am sure you are a nice person too)
244 LOL!
234. AN APOLOGY. I am sorry that my throw away comment “LD’s appear to have to choose between Private Pike and Mr Bean” has caused such offence.
I unreservedly withdraw my cruel and unfounded jibe.
There is no resemblance whatsoever between either the rather hapless and naive young private from Dads Army, or the equally hapless and accident-prone clown from Mr Bean and any Lib dem leadership contender, now or in the past.
239, Mike L: “Numerous messages saying the LDs are a complete waste of time etc” - yes wonder why…could it be that other activists are, well, active??
I might have thought that during their own leadership contest the LibDems might have been able to muster an opinion but this “didn’t they both do well” guff is a bit sad. You can’t sit on the fence when the ballot paper arrives…
242 - That looks like a big Lab-Con swing on a much reduced turnout (I guess there had been a general election turnout in 2005)
And Ave It must now be at the “institution” stage on pb.com? You either get the humour or you are a Liberal Democrat.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
CON GAIN LOADS.
RECOUNT IN JARROW.
249 LOL!
LDs = hahahahahahaha
Where’s Mark Senior?
234. I think Clegg showed well what his approach to policy issues is (and to their communication). There’s a lot more originality of thought in the way he approaches things - no comparison with Cameron.
An excellent Question Time I thought, comparing favourably with the Tory contest and obviously the non-existent Labour one!
I think they both did well, and strategists in Lab and Con will have some concerns about that.
I think, as before, that Nick does the “I can feel your problems” better, while Chris does the “I can solve your problems” better. Because I don’t need the former, I prefer Chris.
253 - TOP
Dan - spanner
Paul lloyd = c*** (wonder what that word is!)
Mark Senior = LOL
Mike - can i have a thread named after me
239 - how many texts were there to the BBC on the Labour leadership Question Time then Mike L?
244 - Cheers stjohn. I agree that it can’t possibly be option 5, but I’d go for a variation of 1 - the odds would only have shifted significantly if the debate had caused Clegg -> Huhne switches. My gut feel was that people who liked what they had seen of Clegg up till now would have liked plenty from him tonight.
256 - MBoy, I’d say your last paragraph is one of the sharpest analyses I’ve seen of this contest. Who did you support last time out of interest?
Lincolnshire CC Heighington & Washingborough Conservative seat
2005 result Con 1750 Lab 1534 UKIP 419
todays result Tory hold Tories 877 Lab 206 Lib Dem 137 BNP 126 UKIP 52 Ind 21
turnout 26.2%
242 - Thanks to Vote 2007, here are the full figures:
Con 61.8% +14.5%
Lab 14.5% -26.9%
Lib Dem 9.7% +9.7%
BNP 8.9% +8.9%
UKIP 3.7% -7.6%
Ind 1.5% +1.5%
So that’s a 20% + swing to the Tories. Over to ‘Ave It’
259 TY. isnt that about a 20% swing to Con?
where’s paul lloyd - nursery tomorrow
I am still struggling to imagine what a Lab-Con coalition to ‘keep the Libs out’ might look like.
Would Brown go back to the Treasury under Cameron? Or would our Dave take the purse-strings under Gord?
No, Can’t see it, can you?
On reflection, it’s the daftest suggestion by a politician since someone (can’t remember who) said: “go back to your constituencies, and prepare for Government”
260 LOL!
I didnt read the last line before I posted!
I am paul lloyd!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
262 Rather like the one that voted to send troops to Iraq?
Londoner - who are you? (7 million options - not many LDs)
Dan - creche tomorrow?
262: yes what a pathetic answer to the coalition question from both of them. What utter guff - a national government.
240: ‘Ave it. Has anyone ever told you what a prat you come over as?’
Oh, come on! ‘Ave it whatever is a sort of PB.com pet - a cheeky, chirpy chap who we’re all supposed to find frightfully endearing. (I quite agree though. What sort of simpleton bothers posting that deluge of drivel.)
tpfkar: Huhne last time as well, although that was an easier choice!
262: Yes, that’s what they said in Germany too. Until they tried it a couple of year ago…
267: Lets Ave more of it please. It winds this lot good and proper.
269 - Germany had a Grand Coalition in the 1960s. You surely cannot be serious about such a prospect here? Can you? You’ve always sounded reasonably sensible.
Am rather surprised that the Libs here who are critical of Ave it never appear to be around when ColinW posts. OOps I forgot, Colin W is an active Lib, that makes it alright.
More Tory lies.
Marcus Wood says 11.32 is time for him to go to bed. But half an hour later he is still posting.
You just can’t trust them!
I see the sun’s love affair with labour yesterday has ended with an abrupt halt.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/sun_says/article244723.ece
The using of even minor EU stories to labour/ milliband has begun. every EU story will be dragged up against labour over the next 3 months. do labour posters really think brown and labour can survive such a negative period of press, especially at the current poll levels and a new lib dem leader, who surely has to change his mind on this issue and capitalise.
272 - Colin W is a wanker. No mistake.
Ave it is probably a spoof.
267 - ***t - get back on the dss benefits you buffoon
270 - i respect proper and considered argument on this site
PS LDs = LOL
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Yeah I get it now. I just write something and then put LOLOLOLOL on the end.
Ave It is a Tory LOLOLOL
Councillor Anthony Little is such a Little man that he has to insist that we know he is a Councillor LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I just get funnier by the second. I nearly fell off my stool laughing.
Oh yeah, oh yeah. I just realised. Cameron’s got manboobs LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I am cracking myself up. My wit is just so good.
Oh yeah, Tories are prats LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Seriously Mr It, your humour started off badly, lost its way in the middle, and the less said about its standard now the better.
As for institution…I thought the kind that our mate ‘Ave’ occupies limits the use of the communal computer, or is his condition so bad now that they let him on it permanently.
272 LOL! (haven’t learnt bold posting yet)
275 partial LOL
Remember I was mentioned last night as key to this site unlike any LDs
A bit like the next election LOL!
Dan still awaiting for you to come back from the nappy changing
272 - but everyone knows ‘Ave it and Colin W post from the same machine (in the same psychiatric ward)…
OK - Huhne won the debate. He started so much better.
But watch the body language. When Clegg is listening he looks convincing. When Huhne is listening, he looks like a sock glove puppet.
In the end, Huhne was just a bit too much of a Social Democrat for me. Too many of the solutions were unimaginative spend spend spend.
I had been leaving heavily toward Clegg, and I am still inclined that way. But not yet decided.
Who else could have competed with them on QT? I can’t see Julia having been up to the mark. And Vince - yet perhaps he should have run. Who needs charisma when you have a superb brain?
275 - But the cat-fight between him and Big Mak on some LibDem forum just before Ming’s resignation was pure joy to behold.
277 - as I said earlier you are a c***
To help you out the letters c n t and u appear in that word somewhere.
Now f*** off.
265
After tonights performance on question time,what is your forecast for Lib Dem seats at the next GE?
Is ave it Cllr Anthony Small… or Little?
As I said yesterday, people don’t lurk here just to say…
“Tories gain Ho Chi Minh City
:) 
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOL”
Lib Dems win Kensington and Chelsea LOL
Cameron loses deposit in Witney LOL!
I am Ate it 07!
I am this site!
I am God and King and Law
:) 
:) 
:) 
:)
282 - I think that deserves a red card. Can we also ban the other name Ave it uses?
Various - Mike if you get the card out for me then so be it.
But this site would be better if all the LD morons were turfed off it!
PS if you ban me, then Sean T and i wont buy shares in the site!
PPS LDs = LOL
SBS: Goldsworthy - The idea that a twenty-something newbie should run the party is a joke. Best way to kill the party dead. She’ll be great in, like, 15 years…just like Charlie was.
And to swap Ming for Vince on the grounds that Ming was too old? Ha-ha-ha-ha!
Vince is great, but not a leader. Can you imagine him at the podium railing against the Iraq war? I think not…
286 - what you mean ‘LDs are intelligent?’!
Er no i dont think so
SBS more like **** (you know the phrase)
285 - LOL LDs think they are above the law
150 years and still losing LOL
287 - do you want this just to be a Tory blog?
282. You didn’t even ‘LOL’, when you called me a c*nt and told me to f*ck off. Did I cut a little close to the bone? Have your dreams of a stand up turn on the Tory rubber chicken circuit come to an abrupt halt?
C’mon Ave It. You’re a wit and a wag. Is calling me a c*nt the best you can do? You really are losing it.
Oh I forgot. LOLOLOLOL
290 - dont mind the small parties commenting as long as you know your place
291 - dont dish it out if you cant take it.
Oh I forgot LOL
289 - I seem to have upset you. Ahh!
I love you too Ave it! Keep up the abuse.
SBS @ 280 re Huhne — ah, but these policy details really do not matter very much, since the LibDems will not win a general election any time soon. The party needs a couple of issues — like Iraq in the past — which are its own and on which the government is unpopular.
Huhne’s weakness was that he can seem stuck in the 1980s: witness Reagan and Trident.
289 - no I think we should keep ‘Ave it as pb.c’s Tory gimp.
287:
Oh dear, sounds like our court jester ‘Ave it is finally getting rattled. Please don’t tell me he’s starting to take himself all serious. Live by the post, die by the post, sweetie!
I missed the QT debate, but for what I read here, Huhne was much better when he talked about policies, but Clegg was good too, and recovered from a bad start(is this it?)
That BNP 9% in the by-election is alarming. Wonder whether the campaign was particularly fraught: the utter collapse of the Labour vote is also rather puzzling.
We always wondered who Jack W was. Perhaps we’ll never know.
But what else does Ave it post as? Surely it has some political views, which is posts, rather than just spouting spoof results.
It has a very short fuse tonight too. Diddums!
293 - no red card after all? Ah thats nice of you.
296 - how do you do italics LOL
297 - a fair summary.
Oh and Ave it Vicky Pollard and I claim my 7 Euros.
299 - Con gain Montgomery maj 500,000 swing lots
301-thanks!
“Another Bruges speech stirs up controversy as Brown weighs in”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2879884.ece
“Gordon Brown’s intervention, hours before Mr Miliband was due to speak in Bruges, again demonstrated the willingness by the Prime Minister to overrule his ministers at short notice, as well as having a more cautious attitude towards Europe.”
“source close to Mr Miliband denied that he had been overruled at the last minute over its language and content”
SBS@ 299. Perhaps this is him? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boeX9KtSvUA
Maybe he never really died at all, but retired to his laptop?
301 - i’ll send the cheque round tomorrow. That will double your earnings for the year.
Seriously WHY HAVE NONE OF YOU LDS GOT ANY SENSE OF HUMOUR? OK you will never win anything but thats LOL
Bit like QPR
LDs = QPR (bit harsh on LDs, or maybe bit harsh on QPR)
L to the O to the L
PS Dan you will always be a small protest vote so enjoy the camping.
305 - LOL (!)
I don’t drink.
OK thats a lie. Its like saying LDs are a useful addition to the community.
307-”I don’t drink.
OK thats a lie”
LOL! =)
304 - i dont like it - a sensible post - clearly you are not LD
straight red
302 - bugger - lose Montgomery. The one MP all LDs really want to keep.
If there was one LD MP left on earth. We would all want Lembit. How else would we survive the asteroids?
guys, this is supposed to be politicalbetting.com, not slageachotheroff.com I know the lib dem leadership contest is boring and pointless as hell, but there is the potential for big profits and loses to be made. thats what we should be discussing!! how we think the betfair market will react. A little less party/ candidate allegence, and a bit more honest reaction and betting prediction.
309-I don’t have a Party(yet)!
red card ave it please! this is supposed to be an interesting and informative forum. Much more and many of us will just give up on this site. thank you.
292. “291 - dont dish it out if you cant take it.”
I can take it alright. I think I was pointing out the opposite. You come here and dish out abuse to people left, right and centre, and then someone points out that you really are just dull and boring, and all you do is call them a c*nt. But to be honest, mate, I have been called worse things by better people, and I am still up for it.
Democratic debate on CNN
310 LOL
OK off to bed.
Back tomorrow (might need to be under a different ISP/user name)
LOLOL
311 - well the odds on betfair haven’t moved and there’s not much money going on. I’d probably vote Clegg, but he is overvalued on the market.
I await Ave it’s take on it though.
LATE NIGHT UPDATE
313 - is that your first post on here hackney?
314 - yawn (its quite late now) I refer you to my earlier comments
Hope I’m not banned for my comment on Colin W. In fact, I think I should get a LD peerage for saying what too many LDs have been afraid to say about Colin on this site.
“WHY HAVE NONE OF YOU LDS GOT ANY SENSE OF HUMOUR?”
Well, personally, I am f*cking funny. Just can’t stand second rate material.
“its quite late now”
Past your bedtime, sweetie?
Oh yeah, we decided that was rather hackneyed material didn’t we. But LOL anyway.
C’mon mate. Just give it up. You really are just not very funny.
Perhaps Ave it will calm down when he’s old enough to vote.
Puberty can be such a bitch, can’t it!
Night!
Hillary Vs Obama
is getting worse!!!
322
If someone is awake, Hillary is winning(in my humble opinion!)
Edwards is not paying attention and Obama did not answer the question about driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants…
Sorry everyone. I was wrong at 272. Ave it is beginning to outdo ColinW. Apologies all round.