Is it too early to ask - “Where did it all go wrong?”
April 10th, 2008
Why are the Hillary campaign obituaries already starting?
With the five week gap in the White House race primary calendar we haven’t spent much time recently looking at what’s happening with the Clinton-Obama contest. This will change in the next few days as the spotlight focuses on the crucial Pennsylvania contest on April 22nd. Here Hillary has to win and win big if she is to have any hope of staying in contention.
Meanwhile there’s a new trend in parts of the US media that should be worrying the Clinton camp - people are asking “how did it all go wrong?” There’s a long piece in Politico from David Paul Kuhn and Jim VandeHei which is being syndicated widely under the heading “The Clinton leadership a study in missteps”.
This is how it starts: “Hillary Rodham Clinton wants voters to decide the nomination based on who can coolly and competently run the country. She had better hope they don’t study her recent campaign too closely for the answer..
Clinton has overseen two major staff shake-ups in two months. She has left a trail of unpaid bills and unhappy vendors and had to loan her own campaign $5 million to keep it afloat in January. Her campaign badly underestimated her main adversary, Barack Obama, miscalculated the importance of organizing caucus states and was caught flat-footed after failing to lock up the nomination on Super Tuesday.
It would be easy to dismiss all of this as fairly conventional political stumbling — if she hadn’t made her supreme readiness and managerial competence the central issue of her presidential campaign…”
It goes on to examine the conduct of both campaigns and concludes: “… a fair measurement of the candidates’ leadership skills is their management of their campaign. Easily the largest enterprise they have run in their lives — in February alone, Obama had 1,280 paid employees, at a cost of $2.61 million; Clinton had 935 employees and a monthly payroll of $1.63 million — the campaign reveals flaws and strengths that will only be magnified in the Oval Office.”
The fight for super-delegates continues and the latest count puts Obama just thirty behind - a very different picture from what it was like in the immediate aftermath of “Super Tuesday” in early February.
In the betting the mood has moved further and further away from the former First Lady. Click on the panel below for further information in our new enhanced betting feature.
Mike Smithson
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It went wrong because of two major flaws:
(1) The candidate. An extremely smart and knowledgeable woman does not make an extremely talented politician. People overestimated her political ability because her husband was so talented, but these things depend a lot on natural ability which cannot be learned.
(2) The campaign. The Mark Penn idea of “slicing and dicing” the electorate with microtrends only works so long as a big trend doesn’t come along and blast through all the little effects. Also having the same guy be your pollster and your campaign manager is a mistake.
Apologies for going O/T so early, but I just wanted to post this before I retire to bed and sadly there can be little doubt that it will be the big, big story over the next two years at least.
“Britain could be hardest hit by financial crisis says IMF”
http://tinyurl.com/5romlt
If things are really this bad with the UK banks, why didn’t they own up in their full year accounts to 31 December 2007? Surely by now they’ve had sufficient time to evaluate their maximum potential exposure to the “credit crunch”. Why aren’t we being told the full story?
CNN Poll for NEW YORK(!)
McCain-Rice 49 Obama-Clinton 45
McCain-Rice 49 Clinton-Obama 46
Where did it all go wrong?
The day she met “Slick Willie.”
She’s a fantasist, who thought by hitching her plain-looking wagon to the Clinton shooting-star, (at the price of enduring the unendurable) she would advance her own career…
Poor, Silly Cow
Ding Dong!!
Her Super Tuesday strategy was (clearly!) flawed, and in the same way as one time GOP favourite Rudy Giuliani’s which suggests that maybe American political consultants are not all they are cracked up to be. I wonder what Gordon Brown thinks of them.
Complacency meant she did nothing about to improve her unimpressive speaking style. Here she is like David Davis or Al Gore, and unlike Mrs Thatcher.
But let us not get carried away, most years she would still have won.
Where did it all go right for Obama?
3. It’s Marist College. Useless.
yeah her career’s been a complete disaster…
Is it GW wot won it for Obama?
Bush has fractured the GOP’s big church freeing many erstwhile Republican-leaning voters to support Obama.
And Obama has copied the charisma over content approach of Bush (and for that matter Reagan, Cameron, even dear old Gord) that allows supporters to project their own beliefs onto the candidate.
8 — damn! Confused cliches: broad church, big tent.
8, 9 — and mixed metaphors: how can a church or tent be fractured? In my next life I shall sit nearer the front in English lessons.
Re. 5, Gordon Brown has retained the services of the least impressive of them all, Bob Shrum. All the Democratic candidates he ‘helped’ in presidential elections have lost.
321. previous thread from nick palmer MP ‘What’s Cameron’s view on this - does he have one?’ and it has what to do with him? Brown said he would be there, now he isn’t going, as usual he has dithered and messed around so much it’s now being seen as a snub to the chinese. The views of Clegg and Cameron have no bearing on his stupidity.
2 Peter - you underestimate the power of the establishment to conceal the truth. There can be little doubt (just try reading some of Ambrose Evans-Pritchard’s articles) that we are now observing the end of the current western economic paradigm. You may think I’m exaggerating, but please read on before dismissing this view.
With totally unregulated madneess like NINJA mortgages (no income, no job …. what *were* they thinking of?) and the stockmarket to all intents and purposes replaced (as far as the investment banks are concerned) by totally unregulated derivatives, which when they all unravel…. goodness knows what will happen… Multi-trillion dollar exposures, making multi-billion provisions look like chicken-feed. Remember, that the Chairman of UBS wasn’t made aware of his bank’s multi-billion exposure to sub-prime mortgage investments until August! In the USA, sub-prime had already been making headlines for months. I’ve been an auditor and I can tell you that usually, there is someone who wants to hide the bad news. And if that isn’t an Exec who is embarassed by the results of his or her actions, then it will be someone higher up, being a Board Member. In other words, conceal the truth until it is inescapable.
Peter, there are those who think that by ignoring reality, reality will fail to take hold. It’s not an overstatement to say that central bankers are all s**t-scared. I remember distinctly a conversation I had with a clearly very well-clued up lady in the queue to go through some ridiculous airport security in the States. She attended meetings of these people (central bankers) all around the world and that was *her* view. In April last year!
The Fed is printing money like there’s no tomorrow. The UK is facing a substantial property price fall. Much more so in Spain and other European countries. Eastern Europe’s finances are woesome. Etc etc etc. The politicians are doing their best to paper over the cracks, but in the end, they will find that the they run out of wallpaper. It is inevitable.
Now you and everyone else reading this may think that my earlier statement that we are now observing the end of the current western economic paradigm is over-stating things. But. Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor of the London Daily Telegraph, ended a very recent article with this 6-word question: “How did it come to this?” He’s really, in his articles (talking of a meltown for equity prices, and so on) not that far adrift from my statement.
I hope that the above spiel goes some way to answering your question, Peter. Pip pip!
Boris getting beaten up on the LBD Mayoral debate.
I am a big fan of his but he is floundering badly.
Aaaaaggghhhh
Just had a Mayoral discussion in our (highly unrepresentative) office - 2 or 3 saying, well I think Paddick would be good but it’s a wasted vote and I want to get rid of Ken
Virtually nobody knows the voting system and that they can vote Paddick (or whoever) first, and still vote anti-Livingstone (ie Joohnson) second and it will definatly count. Clearly I educated them and tried to encourage them to vote Paddick first if that’s what they wanted, but made me think that a bit of campaign money from the Lib Dems on advertising that you have a choice, wouldn’t be a bad thing at all.
Stephen: “the stockmarket to all intents and purposes replaced (as far as the investment banks are concerned) by totally unregulated derivatives”
Evidence?
15 Amazing, Lennon. That didn’t even occur to me, and it’s supposed to be my subject.
I will do just that.
Is it too early to ask where did it all go wrong? Answer: no!
http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com
17 - Which I think emphasises the point about the Lib Dems needing to advertise the fact! If even someone who posts on here hasn’t realised they have that choice, what chance do the voting public have?
19 Yes, I was indeed confirming that, Lennon.
Once I thought about it, it was obvious. I just didn’t think about it.
Hillary should have stood in 2004. She’d have been a better candidate than Kerry. Tip: don’t be too careful, don’t be too worried about getting ‘all your ducks in a row’. Just go for it.
That’s the lesson everybody can learn. Today is your opportunity. Tomorrow (let alone 4 years on) is somebody else’s.
It went wrong in so many ways for Hillary ….
1. Hillary dithered on announcing her candidacy and allowed Obama to steal early momementum.
2. Hillary’s ‘inevitability strategy’ crashed during and after Iowa. Punters don’t like to be told they don’t matter.
3. Funding and Spending - Hillary underestimated the power of internet funding, relying too much on big donors who were subsequently maxed out. She also lost control of her spending and became profligate.
4. Hillary had difficulty in becoming the ‘change’ candidate when she was the early establishment candidate.
5. Hillary’s poor organization in the caucus states minimized her wins in larger primary states.
6. Bill and South Carolina - Bill’s clumsy campaigning in South Carolina allowed Obama a big momentum win leading upto Super Tuesday.
7. Hillary had no back up game after the Super Turesday draw.
8. Obama. Team Hillary completely underestimated Obama in almost every way.
After finding George Best in bed with two Miss World contestants, a member of the hotel staff said. “Where did it go wrong George?”
HRC has a strident voice, bossy personality and little warmth, the attempts to mix with ‘ordinaary’ voters seem to be strained and false, characteristics which Obama appears to lack. If she hadn’t been Bill Clinton’s wife would she have made it the hustings in the first place?
There can be little doubt…that we are now observing the end of the current western economic paradigm
A bit melodramatic. Certainly we are looking at the end of the line for a lot of the financial products that were so popular in recent years. But essentially this is just a financial crisis like any other that has been experienced over the last several hundred years - featuring the collapse of an unsustainable mountain of debt, much of it mis-sold.
There will be a long period where the financial sector licks its wounds, then the merry-go-round will begin again…
[13] Indeed. Comparisons are being made with 1929/31, but there are two significant differences. Then, there was an alternative economic paradigm - at the time promoted only by Lloyd George, but which later became hegemonic. Now, there isn’t.
One outcome of that crisis was the beginning of mass owner-occupation, with the development of the mortgage as we have known it. (Metroland and all that…) Could this crisis lead to mass downward mobility? If so, and in the lack of any coherent alternative from anywhere left of the middle of the Tory party, I would expect the Far Right to make hay.
I repeat my predictions (repetition apparently being more effective here than cogent discussion): Labour to lose more seats next time than in 1983, and for there to be at least one poll in the next Parliament showing UKIP & the BNP together to have more support than Labour.
The BBC has reported this morning, the Chinese media ‘who don’t usually go off message’, had been reporting all long that Brown was expected at the opening ceremony.
For fellow gambling golfers I make Tiger Woods a “near cert”
Bloomberg.com tend to agree
Woods Is Even-Money Favorite to Win Masters; Mickelson Is 8-1
By Michael Buteau
April 10 (Bloomberg) — Every so often, someone like Zach Johnson, an unassuming, short-hitting golfer from Iowa, comes along and wins the Masters Tournament.
Don’t expect a repeat performance of Johnson’s long-shot 2007 victory this year, competitors and analysts said.
O/T - This Brogan blog made me chuckle, clearly the new Labour general secretary thinks that there is a risk that the Party could go bust. Oh dear!
http://broganblog.dailymail.co.uk/2008/04/brown-does-deal.html
Back on topic, in answer to the question, yes. The race isn’t actually over yet. Secondly it comes down to whether people have bought into a bubble with Obama and that remains to be seen.
26. In fact, he was never committed to going to the opening ceremony - he’d just allowed the impression to get out that he would go. More poor media and expectations management. He’s now managed to upset the Chinese who think he is boycotting the event AND the protesters who are accusing him of a hypocritical or inconsistant stance as he’ll be at the closing ceremony. If Hillary’s political skills aren’t wonderful, they look pretty impressive next to Brown.
22. Excellent post. All true and summed up in one word: overconfidence. She didn’t allow enough for ‘events’ and tried to overmanage things that can’t be managed (including voters).
26 As Guido points out the AP release after Gordon’s meeting with Sarko was quite definite on Gordon going to both ceremonies. As discussion at time was President Sarkozy boycotting the Opening ceremony surely the point of Gordon’s comment was to distinguish himself from Sarko? Perhaps if he meant the Government would be represented rather than him representing Britain he should have made it clear then rather than weeks later.
By: THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
LONDON - British Prime Minister Gordon Brown says Britain will not boycott the opening ceremonies for the Beijing Olympics.
Brown was speaking at a news conference with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who repeated his position that he might shun the opening. Brown says Britain “will be attending the Olympic Games ceremonies.”
Sarkozy says none of the 27 members of the European Union have called for a boycott of the Games.
He says he will use the next few months to try to “pacify” the situation, adding that he reserves the right to decide whether he will attend the opening ceremony.
O/T - WE’ve got some prices up for Mayoral 1st percentage vote shares at ladbrokes.
Boris
Over 50% 8/1
45-49.99% 3/1
40-44.99% 9/4
35-39.99% 11/4
30-34.99% 4/1
Under 30% 14/1
Ken
Over 50% 33/1
45-49.99% 8/1
40-44.99% 7/2
35-39.99% 7/4
30-34.99% 9/4
Under 30% 14/1
cuddles @ 12 - Very noticeable that Brogan reported the “Oh no he didn’t promise to attend the opening ceremony” line at 10:56 last night, Robinson was almost an hour later at 11:46 pm, with Palmer an hour after that at 00:56.
Wouldn’t it be nice if these spin doctors preceded their version of events with “I’ve just been told by No. 10/the Whips Office to say that ….”, so we could ignore the rest and get on with reading the views of people who actually have some of their own.
re 12 Nick - just face up to the awful prospect - you and your colleagues allowed a walking disaster area to assume the Labour leadership without a fight. You cannot say you weren’t warned, the polls for months had been showing what a disaster he would be.
The Clintons are overly involved with the swastika-badged Prosperity Promotion movement of Gordon Brown. This will trouble Americans once they realise what its implications are.
Obama could open up on this and bury the Clintons.
http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2008/04/british-prime-minister-threatens-usa.html
Gordon Brown perfects the “non-attendance non-boycott”. Gets into those stubborn hidden crevices where some credibility might just have been lingering….
But he is going to the closing ceremony, where he will sit with Face of Thunder as he watches the handover of the Olympics to…yup, the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson!
32.
:) 
:)
35 - Yes but Brown doesn’t do much other than a Face of Thunder, it is his default setting unfortunately. It means that when he does smile it looks unnecessarily fake which feeds into his negatives.
Hillary is simply unlucky to have been up against a candidate with more than his fair share of the X factor - just like her husband had in 1992.
Her campaign has certainly made mistakes, but all campaigns do. If you compare the incredible Guiliani fiasco, the well funded but limp Romney campaign and the failure of Fred Thompson to capitalise on the goodwill he had, her campaign has been pretty good.
There is a tendancy to look at US campaigns with British eyes and to see Hillary as having blown a big lead. But the primary season doesn’t work like that. We are not looking at party versus party, with known leadership teams and each with a solid base level of support. Early polls are all name recognition, and things can move very rapidly as it develops. In truth, Clinton hasn’t done that badly still to be in it, fighting and winning a lot of support long after the tide turned against her.
It all went wrong in the Oval Office in 1995.
Hillary has ever since then been trying to assert herself, and show the strong woman that she is. Bill has been trying to atone for indiscretions by encouraging the wronged woman
It has been exposed that Hillary is not up to the job of being a candidate. But Bill has been powerless to stop her.
Mike - You’ve used the argument that poor campaign management implies a poor Presidency, but how do you explain Bush and Bill Clinton. Bush ran two almost flawless campaigns while Bill’s was quite haphazard. I think most people would agree who the better President was.
Brown has all the guile of a schoolboy. It is part of his trade to steal chocolate cookies from the biscuit tin and then claim he did nothing of the sort. That’s what the job is all about. Blair did the same. But Brown is forever caught with chocolate round his mouth, sticky fingers and his clothes covered in crumbs which makes his claims to have been nowhere near the biscuit tin less than believable.
40 - Running a good campaign is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for running a good administration.
41 I tend to agree.
Blair is one of the luckiest PMs in history. And a good chunk of that luck is to have been preceeded, and then succeeded, by truly dire and lacklustre administrations.
Next to John Major and Gordon Brown, Tony Blair looks very good. But then, almost anyone would look very good.
It is all the sadder as Tony Blair has probably done more damage than John and Gordon put together.
Brown has once again managed to annoy both sides through his own dithering. The chinese think he’s boycotting because of his vagueness previously (even though he said he was going to the ceremoniess, which implies more than one), the protestors think he’s selling out by going to the closing ceremony.
The reason, it all went wrong for Hillary; simple, I backed her!!
45 -
And Roger confirmed it!…. A leathal combination.
41. 43. Agree 100%
Some very good and witty posts this a.m.
It’s way too early to say it’s all over. After all, spoof poster “Matthew Partidge” will be back here shortly proclaiming again that Hillary is about to storm to victory!
O/T (but rather amusing…)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7338415.stm
41.
Until Super Tuesday,I confess I was a Clintonista-now I hope ASAP she drops out (a)In the face of Obama’s inevitablility
(b)For the greater good of the US Democratic Party
Political Capital’s Talking Points For April 10th
————————————————
Here’s what’s on my mind this morning- what does everyone think?
1) Could Hillary potentially still win the popular vote?
SUSA is thought by many to be the most accurate primary pollster.
April 8th SUSA - Clinton 56% Obama 38% Other 4% Undecided 2%
http://tinyurl.com/69mrxx
There are now at least 4.1mm democrats in the state. What do we expect the turnout to be? At 50% turnout (what’s likely?) using those figures, Hillary could gain a net 360,ooo. Obama is ahead by 94,000 to 717,086 depending on count methodology - this could be quite a dent in Obama’s lead.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html
2) Would a McCain-Condi ticket solve a lot of McCain’s problems vs Obama?
Poll yesterday looked at a McCain/Condi vs Obama/Clinton “dream” ticket (although Clinton on Obama’s ticket is not necessarily a “dream” for some voters..)
http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/04/09/mccain-rice-team-would-lead-among-new-yorkers-poll-says/
Dismissed as a “rogue” poll by some - what if it is not?
3) What have Ipsos-Mori got to say about the rewording of their Mayoral survey questions as discussed here late in detail last night? I think we are due a response and I know Mike is actively chasing one down.
re 52) SUSA poll referred to above is of course the Pennsylvania one.
Morning all
Re: 41 - Showing my age and the power of American culture, I well remember a time when “cookie” was a purely American term up there with elevator and baseball. Sad to see it fall into common parlance this side of the Atlantic but it’s our own fault…
Re: 43 - Not as negative as you on Blair. I think the Good Friday agreement and general developments in Ulster owe much to his persistence and effort. I do think Blair was too timid - he had a majority of 160+ after 1997 and similar after 2001 and could have brought in some radical and far-sighted policies but the second term was ruined by Iraq (for which I think David Cameron should be eternally grateful).
Without Iraq, I suspect Labour would have won a third 100+ majority in 2005 and while I suspect Blair would still have stepped down, it would have been in a far more positive atmosphere.
On public spending, I’ve argued here before that the flood of money after 1999 was ill-advised in the same way you don’t give a starving man a banquet. A more controlled series of small increases over a 5-10 year timeframe would have been far more useful than the avalanche of money which the emaciated public services (thank you, Tories) couldn’t manage properly.
Could it be that Obama has raised more money because he has gone after the A/B voters, as opposed to Hillary who’s done better with poorer ones?
Gosh! The Mail publishing an article, which says that privitisation, isn’t the wonderful panacea claimed at the time.
http://tinyurl.com/649kur
What ever next an article calling for the Tories to adopt clause4.
Whoops I forgot Dave already has!!
54. That’s a bit like saying without Black/White Wednesday in 1992 the Tories would have won in 1997 or If Brown had not let the speculation build up about an election in autumn 2007 he would still be “popular”.
Talking about Brown, you would think he learn’t his lesson on the election he Chickened!
But he has done the exact same thing in the Olympic stance - Brown is not enough of a risk taker and he waits to see what he can get away with. Ultimatley this is what John Major did and look what happened to him………..! Problem for Brown is you cannot change your personality - Like Boris the real self always flushes to the surface in times of tension. If i were Boris i would Brush up very well on what he said on Newsnight and put more meat on the bone for QT. Labour are certainly on the ropes and going back to their fall back position/comfort zone of “opposing”. If i were Boris i would think up 5 rhetorical questions on each of Livingstones weaknesses and not crack any jokes.
31 - Shadsy, when are you going to pay out on the 2-2 score betting from the Ohio/Texas primary night? (Obama got more delegates from Texas when the caucus delegates are included.
56. he has? Link Please!
52.
Re: point 3, nthony Wells’ has commented upon the Mori question this morning, and doesn’t seem to think it was that significant. To summarise, he says:
1) YouGov similarly include a preamble about Ken standing for re-election (so it doesn’t explain the differences in pollsters’ figures)
2) This preamble is unlikely to have an effect (and if it did have an effect it could be negative or positive for Ken, anyway)
3) The introduction of the Greens is strange, and could overstate their position amongst 1st-prefs (this is what happened in Scotland). If the Green party’s 1st pref. are overstated, could this imply Ken’s 1st prefs are understated?
It seems to me attempts to discredit Mori’s polls are misplaced. I suspect there will be substantial differences in polls between now and polling day, but I believe ICM’s and Mori’s polling, combined with Boris’s performances on Newsnight and the radio (which was filmed for London Tonight) suggest Ken will clinch it.
56 - “Whoops I forgot Dave already has!!”
Are you a telegraph reader by any chance………
Senator Clinton still has one influential supporter in the African-American community:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU
60. People who said they’d vote for him already knew what he was like in the main, just so long as he doesn’t make a tremendous gaffe they aren’t bothered what the hustings ar elike.
Well, if anyone has any lingering hopes that catastrophic fall of the pound against the Euro will help exports the latest ONS figures will not help.
“The (global) deficit on trade in goods was £7.5 billion, compared with the revised deficit of £7.9 billion in January……. Exports fell by less than £0.1 billion and imports fell by £0.5 billion.
The deficit with the EU (27 countries including Bulgaria and Romania) narrowed to £3.5 billion, compared with £3.7 billion in January. Exports fell by £0.5 billion but imports fell by £0.7 billion. There was an increase in exports of oil but exports of capital goods, intermediate goods, aircraft, and consumer goods other than cars were lower. There was an increase in imports of chemicals. There were falls in imports of cars, capital goods, food, drink and tobacco, and semi-manufactures other than chemicals.”
Interestingly exports to non-EU countries increased.
60 - What was wrong with Boris on the LBC debate - from what I briefly heard he came across well.
If Obama wins the democratic nomination how Liberal will his platform be? I am starting to wonder whether or not he is an unreconstructed socialist in disguise. Has he ever grown a beard?
54 Stodge That’s how the cookies crumbles.
63. & 65. I know people who are going to vote for him just to get rid of Livingstone as they view Boris as no worse than the present Clown (Ken).
Livingstone is a poor excuse of a politician, going on about racism and then talking about people being like concentration camp guards and the rest. I cannot believe people think that a mayor who associates with corrupt marxist leaders is fit for office of a centre of capitalism. The bloke is a liability!
60) re 52) Wells doesn’t exactly say that about wording, he actually suggests that the green support could possibly be overstated 2x and concludes;
“the decision to include Sian Berry in the prompt, but not the other minor parties, seems very strange given that the Green party finished behind UKIP, Respect and the BNP at the last election.”
Apparently Labour’s finances are so bad that their new Gen Sec is in fear of his personal wealth being tapped so he was frightened of taking the job on.
http://broganblog.dailymail.co.uk/2008/04/brown-does-deal.html
He needs time to move his few million outside of the claims of any creditors.
So instead the Labour party stumble along with their organisation headed up by a temp until the autumn.
Come on Roger, Nick et al spin this one! Brown says its all containable….
69. How very interesting.
“He’s made a real pillock of himself - it’s the most embarrassing thing I’ve ever seen.”
- 
- 
More like political idiot!
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1312416,00.html
The man has the worst judgement i have ever known - I wish i was the satirest on spitting image or deadheads or whatever it is called!
72. Correction Nick Clegg has the worst judgement combined with his alter ego Neil Kinnock!
70. Maybe Roger should become the new Labour party treasurer?
73 - Martin, this Clegg / Kinnock analogy will never work. For all their faults, and strengths, they are poles apart. I’d drop that now.
73 - Well alright!!!
58. Hi Alex. Officially, we said we’d pay out on the delegate count posted by CNN. I’m guessing that they probably won’t officially put the numbers up for the caucus appointed delegates until the state convention in June. (I really wish I hadn’t bothered trying to be so careful with the rules on this one). However, if I can be convinced that it is 100% certain that Obama will end up with a majority, I’ll sort out any outstanding bets asap. I seem to remember some semi-official Texas Democratic Party site which projected an Obama win. Can’t find the link now.
75. Clegg is certainly no Kinnock. He is unlikely to come close even to Kinnock’s pitiful record of political achievement.
I find this MORI and YouGov preamble to the polling - which reminds people that Livingstone is the current mayor - rather odd.
Do they preface their national voting intention surveys with a reminder that Brown is the PM and Labour the governing party? Surely they must if the methodology and logic is the same?
And if they do and other pollsters do not that will effect the view we might take of the veracity of particular polls in comparison with others.
OT but interesting:
al Yamamah
BAE Fraud Probe ‘Unlawful’
60 - Boris on LBC wasn’t a terrible performance, but Boris (nor any of the candidates) managed to steal the show and rise above sounding like boys’ bickering. If you believe Boris has a double-digit lead, then Boris is doing fine in all the debates; I personally believe his lead is small (under 5%), so Boris needs to prove his seriousness and competency: I think he can only win by persuading people to vote FOR Boris, rather than AGAINST Ken, and he hasn’t done that in either of the debates.
This is just my view as a pro-Ken person, so there’s every chance I’m biased. But Timmo upthread (14), similarly thought Boris began poorly (although he may have changed his mind).
78 - yes, Kinnock managed to chuck a lot of the unmodernising loons out of his party, and make it electable for a successor. Clegg has yet to do this!
77 - have you seen the attached CNN story?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/11/caucus-win-gives-obama-more-texas-delegates-than-clinton/
Martin Day Is the Brown cringe worthy clip on Youtube yet?
75. Sorry, It is just the parreles for Kinnock gaffes and Clegg’s. When the pair first took over the first lasting impact they made was of comedy value: Kinnock fell in the sea and Clegg boasted about the number of women he had sex with. To the wider public the parrelel is there and growing all the time.
I think that Clegg would find it an honour being compared to a longstanding leader of the opposition like kinnock!
69.
Yes, but if the Greens have been overstated, this will have benefitted Ken in the 2nd preferences of the Mori poll, but could have weakened him among 1st preferences. There is nothing in that to suggest the poll is flawed.
The inclusion of the Green candidate is strange, but it’s not unique to Mori: Sian Berry has been on the Daily Politics, and has had far more press attention than the other minor parties (this has been discussed on the site before, I believe). While this may not be fair, it is not inconsistent of Mori to put her name there
81 - I didn’t say I thought Boris had a double digit lead - from the latest polls it looks like Ken is in the lead I just thought he came across well on LBC (rather than otherwise had been stated twice on this thread).
84. I don’t know yet but i think it was a bad idea and James whale summed it up well! I wonder if it was Ed Balls idea?
85 - I fail to see the parallel as seen by “the wider public” between tripping over on the beach, and faffing over a crass question and giving a rather garbled reply.
Perhaps I am not wide or public enough.
Coldstone, I tempted to say that Hillary is doing badly because I said she wouldn’t win last year. I suspect that isn’t the real reason though.
By the way, have you ever been accused of being a Telegraph reader before? Or maybe you are. Just not influenced by the editorials!
As for the Daily Mail, why are you so surprised. It is a big mistake to think it is a apoligia for big business. Many on the left really misunderstand Dacre’s agenda as was pointed out in the New Statesman the other week.
82. Clegg has yet to do this!
You might say that - I could not possibly comment!
Actually apart from Oaten and Opek - the number of visible charecters seems to be in decline.
There is a “wonderful” picture of Cameron and Dacre in today’s daily mail at some press awards
91 - you must realise that the number of nutcases amoung Liberal MPs is in decline. Back in 1979, 18% of Liberal MPs were either Cyril Smith or Clement Freud.
And the 1970s had seen such gems as Peter Bessell and Rt Hon Jeremy Thorpe.
You are right; there are fewer characters around.
87.
Sorry, I meant ‘you’ in a more general sense of people on this site who have, quite fairly, argued that if Boris is 12+ ahead, he doesn’t need to perform strongly in debates. Sorry for implying you were one of these.
Out of interest, what did you like about Boris (and did you think he was any more honed than his Newsnight performance?). As I said, I can’t say he was noticeably worse than the other two, but I just felt there was too much bickering and not enough articukation of visions and how to implement those visions.
81. I don’t believe Boris has a double digit lead, I think in the debates he’s doing ok. However, I also think that Boris proving his competance and seriousness is not a major thing. Boris is liked because of his personality, he has already proved he can be serious as well, so people are thinking he may be the right choice. The funding scandals, and other things, surrounding Ken have damaged his only plan, campaigning on his experience compared to Boris.
89. Clegg tripped over a question and left his flank exposed (Metephorically speaking!) - In some senses this was more of a gaffe than Kinnock as dealing with hostile questions is a pre-requesite to political success. Clegg could not have picked a worse area to make such a gaffe in either other than Hague and his xx Pints. Kinnock showed he did not have physical dextority, Clegg has shown he does not have political dexterority. People joke about Boris Johnson but Clegg seems to have embarked on Johnsons career path at a very early stage.
I do wonder if Tom Knox is not really Nick Clegg who has already met the millions of women promised in his alter ego’s book: a third ‘personality’ created to write toe curling ‘autobiographical’ memoirs and contribute to this site while keeping his serious thriller author side and political ambitions at a safe distance.
91. Oaten-Opik-Ballard-Tonge-Clegg, it really is a parade of comedians, isn’t it?
93. Not to forget Clement Fraud
98. Ballard-Tonge-Clegg
or Clegg-Tonge-Ballard
80. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7339231.stm
To be precise, ending the probe was unlawful.
A candidate for PMQ when Parliament returns?
On topic.
Hillary like Gordon is not someone you’d want to spend time with given a choice. They are about as much fun as a cup of cold sick.
Hence why neither will win an election.
O/T it has just struck me that an appropriate piece of music for the current govt would be the 60’s classic “three wheels on my wagon” by the new christy minstrels.
More on the Labour Party’s reluctant Gen Secy from Guido
http://tinyurl.com/5uxvxu
Guido “Wonder how the Labour Party rank-and-file will feel about a multi-millionaire general secretary of the party who has such little faith in his own skills and the party’s ability to raise funds that he hides his own money from creditors whilst putting his assets beyond the reach of the tax man?”
Anonymous said… Brown responded “We are better placed than any other political party to withstand this temporary situation caused solely by political parties in America. The Labour Party is a low-debt party, and compares favourably with the Conservatives under Disraeli,whose debts reached a staggering 51 guineas or £300 million in real terms. Stabiliy…. prudence…. resilience…..blah blah Nurse,the screens”
Martin Day has arrived early today. I am leaving early today. Is there a connection? Yes.
99-101. The first sign of madness is talking to oneself.
Thank heaven for Bluetooth earpieces, I say! No-one can tell any more.
[102] But isn’t it standard procedure to allow a lesser crime to be committed in order to apprehend someone else of a greater one?
I suspect most voters would accept that if we have to make use of fraudsters to defeat terrorists, then so be it.
I thought an ‘alter ego’ was the complete opposite; ergo Clegg is the opposite of Kinnock?
Or was Kinnock voted #1 sexiest MP as well…!
108. in that case presumably you would condone the use of non-lethal torture to make murderers and terrorists confess their crimes
106. Great - The first person to be be ground into the dirt! Have a nice day!
I am glad that you find my observations of the current political climate and the long term prospects to the brand of politics that you support so much of a cul-de-sac, that you give up. A bit like the Labour and Lib Dems policy on europe me thinks! You just capitulate.
Can I suggest you keep the thread’s headline handy. It might come in useful again later.
94 - Boris was probably more articulate and informed than on Newsnight IMO (but then again radio is a different medium). Paddick seems to be coming across very well. Livingsone is slick but I can’t in all honestly appraise his performance as he probably one my least favourite politicans.
108. When have the Saudis ever attacked terrorists with the jets we sold them?
111 - “brand of politics” is a very telling phrase. I think politics is about more than branding, it is about conviction. You, Martin, as a supporter of Cameron’s party, may take a different view.
I note that your attacks on the LDs seem to focus heavily on personalities, rather than polities.
On a lighter note - hope the job hunt is OK.
Martin witters on about Spitting Image so I’m reminded of two of my favourite lines apropos some of the tired old jibes on here today:
“He reminds me of Gorbachev, bald and with a fruity wife”
“Vegetables ?”
“They’ll have the same”
Re: 104 - I remember that on “Junior Choice” - how did it go..
“Three Wheels on my Wagon
And I’m Still Rollin’ Along
Them Cherokees, they’re after me
Things look bad, they look mad
But I’m singing a happy song”
“Woman, I know what I’m doing”
Re: 103 - Given we are a nation of 60 million probably certifiable lunatics, I think I’d be pretty depressed about being in charge of the madhouse.
Clegg and Kinnock were probably seperated at birth in the political sense. Both have a superior impression of themselves that nobody else really shares. Both think they are deft media performers but are in essence the polar opposite. Both pride themselves on their oratry. Both think they have saved their party from an old “hasbeen” leader. Both leaders are or were in the shadow of their Conservative nemisis. Both leaders careers will end in failure!
Yet another example of the Blair government’s cavalier diregard for the rule of law.
Last nights Elton John fund raising concert for Hillary Clinton is being well covered by BBC News (Radio Two) A love fest with roars of approval by the crowd and quotes from both Hillary and Elton followed by an Elton John classic track.
Completely un-biased though cos as a side note they mentioned Obama had raised more money than she, so that’s alright then.
[110][114] I’m not saying it’s right - I don’t think it is.
118. The previous Tory government were involved too, so maybe it won’t be one of Cameron’s questions at the next PMQ, after all.
Re: 117 - ALL political careers end in failure, Martin. David Cameron will one day know the opprobium that the likes of you now heap on Brown and Clegg. The only question is when.
On a lighter note - hope the job hunt is OK. Thanks - some more interviews in the pipeline!
On political branding i think this in essence has replaced ideology. Certainly to the extent of the Labour party. To be fair the LD’s and Tories are still more ideologically potent than Labour who are the dead parrot of ideological politics. Labour have ceased to be anything other than a collection of interests in the trade union movement, the mega-rich and immigrants.
I don’t mean to be “personal” about Clegg, but Cameron got some stick last year and Brown gets it all the time! It is just that Clegg has exposed himself and left him open to political ridicule. As i have said before - he is either braver or more stupid than i as i would never run for public office.
re 121 pardon - you mean that Dave went up to Tony and convinced him that this fraud enquiry had to be ended now for the sake of national security? Pull the other one.
122. Oh yes quite right - It is just that Brown and Clegg seemed to have embraced failure quicker than others!
114 - I think the point was that the Saudis would withold useful intelligence if the inquiry was not stopped.
110 - I would condone the use of torture if, for example, a known terrorist had confessed to planting a ticking bomb, but wouldn’t say where it was.
Re: 123 - Fair enough, Martin. By the by, Mrs Stodge is also between jobs so I hope you will both find some gainful employment soon.
When I was much more politically active than I am now, I was asked to stand in a couple of winnable wards but I didn’t want to do it then and I don’t now. Being any kind of elected representative is a thankless task.
In life, we all finish up occasionally as a figure of fun or ridicule either intentionally or accidentally. It’s how you deal with that that illustrates the strength of character. Both Cameron and Clegg are trying to portray a more “human” aspect to politics and that doesn’t sit well with everyone.
128. Very true, I treat it all as knock about stuff! I find engaging on this site more worthwhile than being an elected person.
The more “human” aspect of politics is an interesting point - I should imagine that it will be no more succesful than previous attempts to be in touch with the masses that politicians of all parties have engaged in. Tony Blair tried it and got much scorn with his ‘children’s mug’ or the Guitar being walked into no. 10! Most people think it is b*llocks anyway! I should imagine that since universal sufferege began many have thought political parties do not represent them but vote for them to stop the other lot! It always makes me laugh:universal sufferege - maybe whoever invented the term relised we would have to suffer at the hands of politicians!!!
113.
Thanks MB for that response, it’s interesting to see how different people react to the same show. I’m not a fan of political-Boris, so I suspect your judgement of his performance is fairer; if he has improved since Newsnight, it will be interesting to see how well he does for QT.
I know people have said the debates aren’t THAT signiifcant (and I know this is off-topic, sorry Mike), but I suspect the LBC debate will probably reach a much wider London audience than ‘Newsnight’. I think Ferarri’s show gets up to half a million listeners, the show has been advertised across TV and in newspapers, and it will possibly feature on London Tonight.
There was no major gaffe on the show so I doubt it will have any significant effect on the betting or future polling, but might be interesting to see how London Tonight edit it (or if they include it at all)
The aptly-named mithios at 32: “Very noticeable that Brogan reported the “Oh no he didn’t promise to attend the opening ceremony” line at 10:56 last night, Robinson was almost an hour later at 11:46 pm, with Palmer an hour after that at 00:56. ” - yep, I’m in a conspiracy with those noted left-wingers Ben Brogan and Nick Robinson to tell the truth. Good thing you’re there with stop-watch in hand to track these epoch-making events as they occur.
cuddles wonders why Cameron should have an opinion on whether the Prime Minister should boycott the Olympics. Because it would help fill out the fuzzy picture of what he’d be like as PM himself. He’s quick enough to express an opinion on, say, WH Smith selling chocolate: isn’t it odd that he has no view on a tricky foreign relations issue? It’s no good accusing someone of taking a while to decide if you don’t decide at all.
Tend to agree with most of the comments on Hillary’s campaign - it might yet revive, but it seems unlikely. I think she’s proved a tough, resilient and intelligent candidate, but the main problem was simply the tidal wave of Obama enthusiasm. That gave her the choice of submitting meekly and losing or fighting back and looking mean. I think it’s Obama’s half-year, though I’m afraid it may be McCain’s year.
I think Boris will pip Ken to the post purely on being well-known/well-liked, together with differential turnout and voter fatigue.
Policy just doesn’t come into it. Nor does “competence” really. It’s Mayor of London. Not Prime Minister of the UK.
What’s the worse that can happen with Boris? He drops a few gaffes, spends a bit too much on routemasters?
He’s hardly going to cripple your family finances, encourage a nuclear attack or devastate the public services, is he? It’s not a general election. He might embarass. That’s it.
Besides, he can hardly be worse than Ken, can he? Raising the Mayoral council tax year-on-year, failing to cut violent crime and being tainted by corruption in office.
Those that back Ken just won’t give enough of a shit to vote in large enough numbers to stop Boris.
All I am waiting for is a suitable spread price before going back in. But, if one doesnt appear, I’ll just hold my betfair position and chance it.
126. But they would keep buying weapons from us?
124. No, I mean this contract goes back to 1986. Who knows what an investigation might uncover? First rule of politics - if you don’t know the answer to a question, don’t ask it.
131. Some good points Mr Palmer, particularly on Cameron. However, you can’t just put Hillary’s failure down to Obama. We all know that in the US, likeability is massively important and Hillary doesn’t have it. That was clear from the start and why I’ve always thought she would lose.
131. So Cameron must pass comment on every single foreign policy decision Brown makes in order to show what he would do as PM? Once again your trying to shift the debate onto a slightly different subject. Brown messed up, again. He dithered, again. And in doing so has managed to irritate the chinese and tibet supporters, all while achieving nothing. Cameron’s stance is irrelevant, as he can’t pass his opinion on every single little thing Brown does, and what he would do differently, as he would never have time to do anything else. Did Blair spend all day and all night passing comment on Major’s decision? I think not. It would seem petty and nitpicking to do so.
I still think that one of the most important factors will be the scrapping of the 10% tax band. Obviously this has sod all to do with the Mayor of London, but given that the majority of the voters who will swing this will a)get their April pay packet (the first one under the new scheme) very shortly before the election and b) not be impressed by it, I think a lot of people will be in the mood to give the government a kicking over it. It may be a short-term effect, but it will come at just the wrong time for the labour party.
123 I fear we will have to put up with your posts on here for a long time to come . If you communicate the same sort of attitude at your job interviews as you do on here then a job offer will not be forthcoming for a very long time .
131 - to govern is to choose; why on earth should Cameron choose when he’s not governing? It’s perfectly reasonable to criticise the Government’s handling of a tricky diplomatic problem without commenting on the actual decision eventually taken. To do so might undermine the Government’s own diplomatic message, which should not be done lightly.
135. No. But if Cameron doesn’t give us much indication of who he is, why vote for him?
131. Just on that, Nick makes a very good point - shock! Horror!!
McCain has been regularly ahead in state-by-state match up polls and is a strong candidate who is *already* in place for President.
Yet, his SPIN price is 15-16 - THE *SAME* AS KEN LIVINGSTONE
I know it’s 7 months to go, but there seems a huge amount of value in buying McCain. His price is bound to vary versus Obama in the intervening months and I find it difficult to believe that the markets are pricing his chances as the same as Livingstone?!
I would have thought McCains price should already be at least 16.5-17.5 - so I have bought him at 25 quids a point at 16.
I think McCain will hit 18.5-19.5 at *some* point over the next 6-7 months, where I will trade in for a respectable 62.50.
The only risk is if he snuffs it, but one would have to be very unlucky for that to happen.
127 — the problem is that such a scenario has never happened outside of episodes of that NeoCon wank-fantasy ‘24′.
The other problem is that it’s always easy to devise a nightmare scenario justifying even the most egregious actions. I for example am completely in favour of shooting innocent children — *provided* terrorists had strapped bombs onto them beforehand, then sent them running towards a packed shopping centre. See how easy it is? NeoConservatives would have us believe every situation we face is that clear-cut, but it isn’t.
131. When not in government Blair and Brown supported joining the ERM - didn’t stop them using the fall out to stay in power for 3 terms. Stop shifting the blame/focus - your party is in the spotlight..
O/T - Teacakes are in fact cakes rather than biscuits so says the ECJ. The clue being the name Teacake one would have thought rather than Teabiscuit. As a result HMRC may have to repay 3.5 million in overcollected tax.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7340101.stm
137. Whereas the market for grump old sourpusses with a penchant for dodgy statistics is apparently very buoyant…
Base rate down 0.25% to 5%
139. His decision to go or not wouldn’t have shown much, and would have been decried by labour supporters as being petty and damaging relations with China. In the end, this decision was Brown’s and had nothing to do with Cameron. Brown had to make a decision and fluffed it badly. Whatever Cameron would have done is only of interest to him, as he would never have been asked, not being PM and all (yet).
143 - And how much have they already spent on legal bills? Why on earth do the courts bother with this sort of thing???
143 - yes, it’s like the Jaffa Cake war of a few years ago.
All because chocolate covered biscuits do attract VAT, but chocolate covered cakes do not.
Kendal Mint Cake is surely not a cake though.
142. Labour got away with the ERM issue, but Mr Palmer has a point. Perhaps Brown is indecisive and unsure where to position himself. But does Cameron offer a stark alternative?
No.
143 - as are Jaffa Cakes. Though I have to say, I eat both teacakes and jaffa cakes in the way that I eat biscuits (ie with cups of tea) rather than in the way I eat cakes (ie at tea). antifrank has a 36″ waistline.
134 - People in the UK always throw the “likeability” thing at Clinton, but the US polling evidence for it is scant. Polls asking whether people have a favourable or unfavourable impression of the candidates show her consistently in credit, and she does okay in likeability polls. Obama does better for sure, particularly as the campaign has progressed, but the view that Clinton is some sort of hate figure (except amongst solid Republicans) just has no basis - she is probably more respected than liked but she is not widely disliked by any means.
150 - If antifrank though is a strapping lad of 6′6″ then that waist size would be good. It is all relative!
It’s all to do with hardness and softness. Biscuits go soft when they go stale, cakes go hard.
153 - and Kendal Mint Cake?
152 - I wish. I’m 5′11. Modesty prevents me from revealing whether any other of my dimensions are proportionate to a man of 6′6.
155 - there’s nothing wrong with admitting it, Bignose!
140) Agreed Casino. McCain is the value. What do you think about putting Condi on his ticket?
OT
MBEKI WILLING TO MEET TSVANGIRAI Page 1/1
President Thabo Mbeki is willing to meet Zimbabwean opposition
leader Morgan Tsvangirai at his earliest convenience, Mbeki’s office
said on Thursday.
Mbeki spokesman Mukoni Ratshitanga said: “As soon as we have a
formal request we will meet with him at his earliest convenience, as
the president would any other Zimbabwean leader.”
148 - Actually the distinction for tax purposes only applied 1973-2005 so it is all historic now.
154 - I would guess that goes hard and so is cake, but it never seems to hang around long enough for me to find out…
156 - stop looking through my computer screen.
157. Why? He doesn’t need to appease the neo-cons. Presumably, in order to counter Obama and the black vote? But surely Condi is too damaged.
149. I’m still confused, because Cameron didn’t comment on this he doesn’t offer an alternative in general? Talk about grasping at straws.
143 More cookies crumbling … or not if they are biscuits. But biscuits are scones and the scone is a rock under a chair.
Language is wonderful.
162 - It’s a luxury of opposition that you don’t have to take a view on this sort of thing and a discomfort of governing that you do. But the Conservatives under Cameron make a bit of a habit of not taking a view on any vaguely controversial issue (recalling Osborne’s weedling answers on Northern Rock of a “well, we wouldn’t have started from here…” nature).
164. Do you really think every opposition in the past hasn’t done the same thing either?
164 - Oppositions are well advised to adhere fairly stringently to the Derby formulation.
151 - one thing is clear from polls and that is that Clinton is not seen as trustworthy, any question of like/dislike pales in comparison to that.
Dean/Pelosi etc. are desperate to stop her from making their job more difficult against McCain, the longer that Obama has to campaign against McCain the greater effect he will have.
‘It’s the campaign stupid’, Obama is an excellent campaigner, the only question will be if McCain can keep up with him.
111 - Martin, a quick word, you dont make people believe something is true by mere repetition. It just makes you look leaden footed.
As with the Cameron chameleon, if an idea does not take hold you have to drop it, otherwise your credibility decreases every time it is brought back to people’s attention.
Convincing people of an argument involves much more than a position constantly reiterated without further thought.
If you want people to engage properly with you, rather than at an amused distance, change the record.
157. I think putting Condi on would be a great move. I don’t think she’s as tarnished goods as Frank suggests. She’s very bright.
Trouble is, it would be seen as her being selected purely for her race.
I’m not sure she’d like that. I think it’s unlikely myself, but she must be on his list for VP, probably in the top-5.
New thread - What’s the best bet on the Mayoral vote shares?
165 - Of course an opposition should use the advantages of opposition, one of which is the ability not to take a view. They always have and always will.
But you can over-use it. Are Cameron’s instincts in line with the electorate? We really don’t know because he is NEVER willing to share them with us unless the answer we want is obvious.
140/157. CR/PC. You can do a bit better backing Mccain on Betfair. Your SPIN buy spread odds are 6/4=2.5 on Betfair. Betfair are 2.72 McCain which after 5% deduction on winnings =2.634.
I think Condi would be a great VP choice. However would she take it if offered? Additionally would voters be worried about the possibility of McCain dying or standing down during his Presidential term, resulting in her becoming both the first black President and the first female President, neither directly elected?
The credit crunch difficulties had been covered up in the Euro zone but are showing above the surface again.
“BRUSSELS (Thomson Financial) - The European Commission said it is ‘currently assessing’ support measures for the German state bank WestLB in connection with the multi-billion euro risk cover it was granted by the state of North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW)……….German newspaper Handelsblatt on Thursday … reported that these included requirements for the bank’s future business model, the obligation for it to be sold in parts to private investors, or even its compulsory sale after a certain transition period.”
Sound familiar?
Ho hum, here we go again. Yet another attempt to write Clinton’s political obituary. Is this the fourth time in 3 months?
If she wins in Pennslyvannia she will have won every single big state apart from Obama’s home state of Illinois. And done this despite being outspent 4 or 5 to 1 in some places. She has done a lot wrong, but she must be doing a few things right.
No, this is not yet over.
31 - some value there as there is no way Ken and Boris will get 80% of the vote between them.
How weird. Just learnt I’ll be ‘in the crowd’ meeting BO, Hills and John McCain at the Nexpo in Washington on Saturday.
When I was in the States last month I got attend the rally for Hills in Harrisburg on day one of the Penn Primary.
Just need my work to now find a conference for around election time and I’ll be made up.
I’ll report back on America Media commentary as I see it over the next few evenings!
22 JackW
You said it all. Nothing to add.
Malcolm
173 - It’s been over for weeks.
131
H Rodham Clinton’s campaign has turned into the most pathetic I can remember in the US, and I’m old. You give her strengths that I do not recognise; she is running against her husband to prove that she was not damaged by his ‘blue dress’ moment.
Of course, some forget about the 500,000 children under the age of five who died from lack of food and water in Iraq as a result of the Clinton-supported sanctions. I will never forgive them for failing to stop that genocide, and neither should you.
They were only little brown kids, so they don’t matter to politicians do they? After all under-five Iraqis can’t vote.
Malcolm
CNN have the super deledate gap at 28.
Obama camp claiming another scalp today, presumably gap now 27?
“CHICAGO, IL—Utah Democratic Party Chair and Democratic superdelegate Wayne Holland today endorsed Barack Obama, citing his ability to energize the Democratic Party and plan to strengthen the economy”.
Jaffa cakes have already had to prove they are a cake.
This is NOT a matter of the name.
A cake gets drier and harder as it ages. A biscuit goes soft. These are the recognised EU definitions.
Mcvities baked a giant sized Jaffa cake and let it go stale in order to prove to the EU is was a cake. They won.
I expect M&S will be required to bake a huge teacake and allow it to go off.
I kid you not.