Continuation thread…
August 21st, 2008-
And still we wait…
In spite of hints and rumours, there is still no confirmation of Barack Obama’s running mate as he speaks to a small crowd in Richmond, Virginia with Governor Tim Kaine. He is attacking McCain for having seven houses worth $13m - the Republican was unable to say how many properties he owned when asked earlier this week.
A small package of white powder has been sent to a McCain campaign office in Denver, according to breaking news on the Drudge Report.
Gordon Brown has been teased publically by Hamid Karzai, President of Afghanistan. He alluded to the regular practice in his country of Cabinet members trying to undermine him, but said that at least he didn’t have to put up with that from his Foreign Minister. Brown appears unamused…
Morus
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430. Do you consider being “secular humanist” to be an extreme left position?
“Brown appears unamused…”
Isn’t that kind of like saying “water appears wet”?
434. Last thread.
NPR does seem to be very similar to our Radio 4.
Re Northern bash/last thread.
Is Liverpool still celebrating waht Brson used to call The Festival of Litter’?
I would put money on Evan Bayh.
1- Oh, here we go… Just put it all together! So it’s socialist AND secular humanist heaven. It’s everything wonderful wrapped up into a delightful package. NPR’s character can be defined by its embrace of socialism, secularism, feminism, and just about every other traditional special interest comprising the Democratic camp (unions, abortion advocacy groups, minority group interest groups, etc.) and a hostility to anyone or anything associated with the Republican Party.
For example, whenever the issue of bias in the media comes up on NPR, the only example anyone there can ever think of is Fox News (and maybe Rush Limbaugh)!
Really stupid question, I know, but whenever there’s a new thread or even a continuation, I find the only way for me to readily access it is to google PB.com - my favourites link will only take me to the previous thread - there has to be an easier way surely? I believe Morus recently included a link from the earlier thread, which seemed an excellent idea. Would it be posible to include this as a matter of course?
- What with George W. Bush and the Republicans having stripped away all civil liberties and imposed their right-wing vision on America, how can it be that the publicly-funded national radio resembles Radio 4?!
8. Not reallr sure what you’re getting at…
People who assert that the media is biased need to remember what parallax error is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_error
Anyway, it’s late. Night.
8. Because they’re not Muslim?
7 Can’t you just click on the title of the existing thread and the lead to the next and last thread comes up? [says the woman whose technical skill amounts to turning it off and on again and who types like a smail].
11. …..or snail even.
7. Use the refresh button when you’re on the homepage.
7. PfP:
I always hit “Home”, to move to the top of the page where the link to the new thread appears right under the masthead.
The only candidate where’s a healthy “lay” market on Betfair is Joe Biden. Kaine, for example, is 99-1 for tiny amounts of money and that’s with an announcement supposedly imminent!
6. Heh. I’m serious! I’m genuinely interested if you consider not believing in God to be an “out there” position.
All this ‘X Factor VP’ stuff plays into ‘he’s just a celebrity tag’.
Time to act abit more statesman/business like.
Many thanks y’all!
I have the titles at the top of the page as a ‘next >>>’ and ‘<<< previous’ link - but I am happy to add a link in the ‘New Thread’ comment if that helps, PfP.
Need some sleep - don’t think Obama is announcing today. Tomorrow?
Night all.
16- It is pretty out there statistically speaking (the percentage of non-believers is always very small, either measured on a national or international basis). But I’m sure the percentage of non-believers is much higher among the media elite in both of our respective countries than it is in the population at large.
19 As I recall, the “forward” arrows to the next thread aren’t usually there until some time later.
20 Religion is like politics. Most people in believe something, they are just not sure what. Except if you’re in the media, when you always believe you’re right.
I enjoyed this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7568929.stm
Begins:
The story: Vitamin E can kill. Supplements cause a 14% increase in mortality, said the man on telly, standing in front of a huge “14%”, propped up on a number like the bar of the local.
The flaw: Funny, but wasn’t my risk of mortality quite high already? Like, 100%? But no, it’s even worse than that. Vitamin E supplements apparently make the end more than certain. For death has become like a footballer, giving it 114% out there today, Brian.
21. The “refresh” will bring them up.
22. I’m pretty sure I don’t believe in anything supernatural.
19. I’m with Morus on this one. It’s time for bed. Barack better hurry up and name his veep. All this suspense and it’s going to be someone like Bayh…
I try to live by Christian values, but i do find it difficult to buy into the whole Christianity thing. It seems remarkable to me that most of the world’s major religons have been created over the last few thousand years, whereas mankind has inhabited the Earth for hundreds of millions of years. Lucky old us to have been around at precisely the right time.
Factcheck for Rod and anyone else who takes anything the PUMAs say seriously
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
“We conclude that it [the birth certificate] meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as “supporting documents” to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.”
What are things coming to when people are prepared to believe untruths such as the one this article debunks?
20. Obviously the figure in the US will be much higher, but a quick Google search found a 2004 poll showing that 33% of the UK population did not agree with the proposition ‘I believe in God or another supreme being’. So to the extent that non-believers are found in the ‘media elite’, at least in this country they’re representing a substantial minority of the public. And when you turn to the percentage who rarely or never attend a church service, you’re suddenly talking about a huge majority.
28. Sorry, I obviously meant the US figure will be much lower.
24 Thanks, Socrates.
4. I blame the wind blowing in off the Mersey, myself. Oh, and the locals robbing the bins for their scrap metal….
Bryson also said ‘I am exceedingly fond of Liverpool. It is probably my favourite English city..’
My father always said he was a Christian because he led a Christian way of life, even though he didn’t believe in the existance of Christ.
He couldn’t grasp that the ‘faith bit’ was pretty fundamental.
28- I’m surprised the figure is that high in the UK, but you’re right, it wouldn’t be nearly as high in the U.S. (I’ve seen polls, but can’t recite any data for you).
26- I tried earlier in the day to incite the discussion on the one true religion, and perhaps I’ve finally succeeded! Sorry, I didn’t really want to open that can of worms…
Good night to all and here’s hoping tomorrow will bring talk of nothing but a VP candidate!
16: It’s not actually correct that the number of non-believers is always very small internationally, S&S, though agnosticism is generally more common than atheism. The French figure is 27% believers, 32% atheists, with 32% agnostic. The British figure is 35-35-17. It’s the most obvious cultural difference between the US and most of Europe. See
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/allnewsbydate.asp?NewsID=1131
I understand that in the US it would be very idfficult for an atheist to run for President with any hope of success - certainly not the case for leading politicians in Britain.
32. This guy would probably agree with your father:
http://www.doncupitt.com/doncupitt.html
27. Very interesting that. Thanks. I have no opinion either way. I just report what others are saying…
As I reported earlier, someone has filed a suit in Philadelphia to block Obama from running…
I used to visit relatives in Liverpool as a young boy and I loved it, but it did gain a truly awful reputation which became so ingrained in the psyche that for most it is just a bridge too far. Probably very unfair, but true nonetheless.
34. Whereas in Britain you risk being labelled a nutter if you ‘do God’ in any outward public way.
But being a pronounced atheist seems to cause a stir aswell.
Its abit like a politican’s sex life - most seem as if they would rather not know.
Clegg of course has provided full disclosure on both:-)
“430. Do you consider being “secular humanist” to be an extreme left position?”
It would seem that the most vocal people who call themselves secular humanists would do.
38. Well isn’t there a saying about sex, money and religion not being topics for public discussion?
32: The former Bishop of Durham pretty much agreed with him, didn’t he? As I recall (hazily, correct me if I’m wrong), he said that whether Christ was the son of God was difficult to say, and (referring to Easter) religion shouldn’t be reduced to ‘a conjuring trick with bones’. Christianity isn’t a monolithic bloc of 100% believers, any more than a political party…
36. From what I’ve read, isn’t it still an open question what the ‘natural born citizen’ requirement actually means? I suppose I should declare an interest, because I’m a US citizen but not born there (not that I’m planning to run for president or anything).
38: yes, I always liked the Archbishop of Canterbury’s tart comment when Tony Blair and (I think) IDS were doing prominent church visits: “When I fly to America I’m pleased to hear that the pilot is a believer. However, I’m more immediately interested in whether he can fly the plane.”
41. The Anglican Church does encompass atheists within its ranks, such as Rev. Donald Cupitt, or the former Bishop Jack Spong of Newark.
34- Nick, maybe were actually dancing around the same Maypole here. The percentage of those who deny the existence of God is pretty small everywhere, never really going beyond the teens except in the outlier example provided, France. Clearly, though, Americans are much more convinced in the existence of God than are the western Europeans.
HRC for VP ?
40- Isn’t politics supposed to be on that list, too?
45. “The percentage of those who deny the existence of God is pretty small everywhere, never really going beyond the teens except in the outlier example provided, France.”
That’s not true. If I read it right, the atheist figure for Britain is 35%.
47. Maybe one of them’s ok? No idea which.
48 I’ve never seen a poll that would put it as high as 35%
43 If I were on a plane and the pilot started proclaiming his Christian beiefs, I think I’d soon start getting worried, very worried.
48- Sorry, athiests in UK at 17%.
50. OK, I’ve double-checked the Harris poll, and you’re correct - the 35% figure was for agnostics.
48. Wikipedia agrees with you:
In the United Kingdom, a poll in 2004 by the BBC put the number of people who do not believe in a God to be 40%, while a YouGov poll in the same year put the percentage of non-believers at 35% with 21% uncertain.[15] In the YouGov poll men were less likely to believe in a god than women and younger people were less likely to believe in a god than older people.
46 Thanks Jeremiah, would that be wishful thinking or inspired guesswork?
37. But they don’t visit the only National Museums outside of London… Or the largest number of Grade II listed buildings outside of London… Or the largest collection of Georgian architecture in the country outside London (more than Bath).. Or the largest number of public parks and beaches in any metropolitan area in the country… Or the largest number of world class golf courses.. Or the largest herd of African Elephants outside of Africa?
I could go on and on…
There’s more to Liverpool than footie….
OK - it’s now almost 7.30pm on the US East coast, too late presumably for Obama to catch the main evening TV news bulletins with any Veep announcement, so I’m off to bed.
Goodnight all.
42. It’s never been determined by SCOTUS, or any other court that I’m aware of, since it is only of relevance to the Presidency…
Very big smiles from Kaine today in VA, looking at CBS News now…
Obama: “I’ve made the choice: that’s all you’re going to get…”
56 I’m sure all that is true and a whole lot more, but it is going to have to be sold again and again to the mass of non-believers.
A rather pathetic example I know, but a couple of years ago, we chose to drive twice as far from Yorkshire to Luton Airport, rather than travel from “John Lennon” Airport in Liverpool. Even this name was somehow off-putting, don’t ask me why.
Just as you appreciate the virtues of your home City and become irritated by irrational criticism, I’ve come to feel exactly the same about London, my adopted home. Many old “friends” have said to me that they can’t understand how or why I would live there - ultimately I have to be quite rude and tell them they haven’t the first idea about the virtues of one of the World’s truly great cities.
59. I know what you mean. “Ken Dodd International Airport” sounds so much better….
‘Fascinating’ update on Obama lawsuit.
The papers have been filed - but not yet scanned into the system.
http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums/thread/1653838.aspx
60 Deffo
60 I suppose that be it John Lennon, Ken Dodd or even Liverpool International Airport all sound just ludicrously pretentious. Manchester, umpteen times bigger, just about gets away with its “International” tag.
Best to go for an anonymous name, such as Heathrow, Gatwick, or Stansted and skip the International appendix - I mean when did you last hear of Heathrow International? Never I would guess.
62. I should also mention that “John Lennon”, formerly Speke Airport was yet another great Liverpool first - the first provincial airport in the country, opened in 1930… Now I believe the fastest growing airport in the country.
The Airport by-line was a stroke of genius…
http://flickr.com/photos/35659605@N00/2497422482
63 appendix = appendage