How damaging will this be for Harriet?
March 7th, 2009
Can her leadership ambitions survive the Euros?
Both in terms of betting opportunities and political intrigue, the Labour leadership will be the “gift that keeps giving” for the next eighteen months and maybe more. Today’s instalment is the news that Harriet has been lined up to run Labour’s campaign for the June Euro-elections. Labour secured less than 23% at the 2004 elections, one of the worst scores for a governing party in Europe, and are in serious danger of doing even worse this time, possibly even under 20%.
The Guardian story highlights the fact that it will be Harman, “…rather than the cabinet’s election co-ordinator, Douglas Alexander, the local government secretary Hazel Blears or the party’s most proven electoral strategist, Peter Mandelson…” who will be in charge and thus in the firing line if the results are bad.
So, will this be a fatal blow to Harman’s leadership chances, or can she still survive as a major contender if Labour go down to a heavy defeat? The Euros have also been marked down as the last trigger event to unseat Gordon before the general election, so should there be a putsch against the PM in the wake of a Euro-disaster, this would be especially poor timing for Harriet.
Over at the Coffee House blog, James Forsyth wonders why Balls isn’t being punished for his leadership ambitions, while an article there earlier this week looked at the possibility of a Cruddas-Purnell ticket to stop Balls.
Harman is a best-priced 10/3 for the leadership, with Purnell at 8/1, Balls at 10s and Cruddas available at 12 - latest prices are here.
Double Carpet
MessageSpace Advertising
First?
Poisoned chalice!
Does rather suggest there is no hidden agenda to suddenly spring a general election on the same day.
Hapless Harriet =
Clearly it will be damaging, but will it presage more damage to her opponents in terms of who loses their seats if the Euro’s point to a calamity.
Hattie could actually have made a quite clever gamble here.
Labour got 24% of the vote in 2004 at a time when UKIP was at its most dominant and took votes away from ALL the major parties.
UKIP is less prominent now, so could Hattie be gambling on Labour taking a hit, but actually *improving* their vote share on the last election? Say 25/26%? Even if it’s just by 1 or 2 percent she can spin it as a kind of victory.
I think some of you must have bots that are continuously scanning for a new thread!!
5
19% would be a result in June.
Cruddas/Purnell dream ticket? Have we reached the stage of randomising leadership dream tickets?
Roll a dice, add 4 to the result and multiply by the number of letters in your second favourite colour - then pick any two random Labour politicians.
Its the Diane Abbot/Dennis Skinner dream ticket to stop the Dougie Alexander/Jim Murphy freight train
“How damaging will this be for Harriet?”
Fatal.
Sneaky move by Brown, sending Harman over the top to get mangled in the barbed wire and shredded by shrapnel.
6 - I just got lucky
If the BNP does well in June, she will carry the can in the Party for “the national embarrassment of allowing British Fascists to pollute Brussels” or some such.
Certainly looks like the other contenders for Gordon’s job have swerved a hospital pass!
HH is the Labour parties kiss of death- she is the personification of electoral poison!
John Major’s revealed what he got up to when he was meant to be doing hard sums:
The mellow sound of OLD bat on ballS
The wherewithal to enthral
On feather bed or fiery track
Talent far above the pack
All on display at a glance…
No it’s NOT Eggwina but Sir Colin Cowdrey. Slightly, ever-so-slightly modified.
As Melinda says: “Majors do it Doggerall-fashion”.
HERBERT PROPER-135 last thread, a very big thank you from a little wealthier TYSON
Re: 530 last thread
It’s unfortunate that any contribution that doesn’t meet your personal approval simply earns another dose of patronising contempt. It’s disappointing that you seem unable to debate these days but that seems the direction this site has moved in recent times.
‘Councillor removed from office’
Gerard O’Brien [Labour], 39, was removed as a councillor for repeatedly breaching the Councillors Code of Conduct. The disqualification is the first in Scotland since the inception of the code in 2003.
The SNP-controlled [Stirling] council currently has seven SNP members, seven Labour members, four conservatives and three Liberal Democrat members. The Nationalists seized control of the local authority in March last year following a vote of no confidence in the ruling Labour group. A by-election for Mr O’Brien’s seat [Bannockburn] be held later this year.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/7928583.stm
13.
Heavens!! Has Hatty Joined the LDs?
9. She truly is a monster, i cannot put into words how i feel about her, but i now understand how others, misguided though they were, were able to generate such foam in the mouth hatred about Mrs Thatcher.
She seems to role into one every vile bigoted nasty aspect of modern progressive socialism/statism.
Interesting. Brown has found an alternative version of my promote her and let her hang herself view. However, like much Brown does this seems to have greater risk to it.
I wonder if he thinks that Harman can motivate the base better than Alexander? If so possibly a good thing but if she manages to sabotage the election with some daft outburst in the week prior will it rebound on Brown.
It was after last Spring’s elections that Brown’s position came under greatest threat with the post victory bounce that the Conservatives received. If Harman screws this up could it be Brown who suffers ultimately?
Alternatively is he setting her up to be part of a ‘Night of The Long Knives’ cabinet reshuffle after another humiliating night at the ballot box?
7 How about 15%!!
PS When are MPs elected in England going to sign the ‘English Claim of Right’. How can Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling and others be trusted to run the UK after they signed the ‘Scottish Claim of Right’? Surely the Tories will need to sign and ‘English Claim of Right’ to setup their third rate English Grand Committee talking shop?
13 How many minutes. tick tick tick before Mike Smithson contradicts you?
England have declared 546/6
19.
“i cannot put into words how I feel about her”
Don’t tell Mr Dromey. He’s a Grunwick veteran y’know!
8 Sign me up as a worker for the Bob Ainsworth + Angela Eagle dream team ticket! Media performers par excellence.
(Or as I originally typed, the “dram team”! You could understand why it would turn a tee-totaller to drink….)
16. Stodge - sorry but there’s a level to which I won’t sink. I’m not going to waste my time disproving such an obviously absurd and hackneyed assertion as the one you made. It was embarassing to read - the sort of stuff I would expect from Roger et al.
I’ve never been Hatties biggest fan, but isn’t it typical Brown to set someone else up for his failure? Gutless coward that he is.
If shes got any sense she’ll rope Brown into the campaign, so whenever shes out in public Brown is with her.
24. That is a darn cunning misquote…
26.
“there’s a level to which I won’t sink”
transl: “I’m at rock bottom already but I don’t have the foggiest bit of self-awareness.”
You are so supercilious your eyebrows are mixing with your bumfluff sirrah.
13. Labour might as well persuade Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness from Sinn Fein to defect to Labour, he may be preferable to some of the anglophobic trash MPs we have at the moment.
23 - Lets hope they can actually win from this position.
27 Perhaps she will ensure that a picture of Gordon and Obama is on every piece of Labour’s election literature. When Labour then crash and burn in June, she can say that their Last Best Hope with Gordon at the helm has just died. Time for a new leader…
(Just not you, Hatty old bean!)
25 oh now there is a dream ticket!
Lets go for the Kaufman/Michael Meacher party like its 1983 ticket
29 ctd. If the UUP can merge with the Tories, Sinn Fein may as well merge with NuLab!!!
531.
“30 years of Conservatism - nonsense….”
You don’t have to hyphenate. The meaning is self-explanatory.
31. Yes, and when she goes door stepping she’ll take Brown with her, just like last year;
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brown-launches-labours-local-election-campaign-on-safe-ground-800599.html?action=Popup
32.
Kaufman is closer to Norman Tebbitt than he is to Michael Meacher.
Is there any reason why she would agree to do this? Is her political judgment that bad, or will she just do anything for a bit of power?
36 And Cruddas and Purnell have little in common either, thats kinda the point of the dream tickets that are fluttering down like tickertape this evening.
Oh if only we could hyphenate you Wage - Slave!
Why would it be so damaging?
Out in the real world, most won’t know/be interested in her heading up the campaign and those who hear about it will forget the day after.
Internally everyone firmly believes they are heading for a thrashing. If they don’t do as badly as expected, she might get the credit. Remember they will have to spin there low expectations even lower.
If they do, then it will surprise no one.Why should she get the blame?
I presume she could have side-stepped it. She hasn’t. That might just be over-confidence and poor judgement. But it will make a good counter to any perceived disloyalty to Gordon.
She could get credit for being willing to stand in front of a freight train and take a hit for the party.
If they have a mess to sort out and feel down at heel, there might be those in the party who would like someone who is not afraid of getting their hands dirty or shy away from a fight, however impossible the odds.
Isn’t it a little obvious? I would think that anyone who supported Harman before would stick by her after a dreadful result, as it’s so clearly a set-up. And if somehow the results aren’t so bad, then Harman will claim the credit.
She seems like the type of person who easily trips up on her own, but thrives on being a “victim” of others and calling other wronged people to her side.
37. If she’s going to be leader then she can’t be seen to be turning down the challenges / opportunities offered her. If she does it implies weakness…..
38. I know, I just cannot think of a single parliamentarian who is more detestable than Kaufman.
My dream ticket: Nicholas Winterton and Hazel Blears.
35 The horror of opening the front door - and seeing that pair on your doorstep!
Sets back canvassing thirty years…
43 - fair point.
What if Labour try what Aznar went with by going up to the wire with the PM and a new Leader going straight into the election.
40.
As long as you false-Tory Draperbots persist with your trolling designed to make the despicable Brown seem reasonable, I shall struggle on, un-hyphenated!
45. Indeed. The poor old girl looked like a lamb to the slaughter.
Heres the Tory dream ticket for the next decade.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/10/JacobReesMogg_228×320.jpg
http://media.apn.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/annu.jpg
Its the Rees-Mogg/Rees Mogg ticket.
In unrelated news
http://static.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/dog-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/afghan-hound-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/pictures/afghan-hound-0016.jpg
Afghan hounds are the most inbred and stupid of dogs.
37. I was going to comment on wage slave but on reflection decided the plonker wasn’t worth it.
44
Quentin Davies/Ruth Kelly super dream smile-time variety ticket
50 Is that how you tell them apart - one isn’t hyphenated?
When Brown tries to be too clever - it usually backfires somewhere down the line.
36. That picture still haunts me. Truly terrifying.
I think that a lot of people on this thread are, like the great Gord himself, underestimating Harriet’s electoral appeal. The fact that many individuals who have posted loathe her is irrelevant. It is how she goes down amongst a wider swathe of voters that matter.
This looks like a typical gimmick by Brown Central - never known to think things through properly - and my guess is that HH will not be damaged in the way that the PM’s thugs are hoping for.
52.
Mark Oaten and Ann Widdicombe?
false-Tory Draperbots
Now does that mean you think I’m not a Conservative but am really a Draper plant?
Or does it mean that I am a Conservative but not a Draper plant.
Or does it just mean you’ve got your hyphens in a twist again?
56.
” It is how she goes down amongst a wider swathe of voters that matter”
The mass Levinsky strategy?
56 HH does appeal very strongly to the hater types, however for every vote she attracts she will repel another two. Bring her on and watch NuLab fall below 20%!
21. francis - “How can Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling and others be trusted to run the UK after they signed the ‘Scottish Claim of Right’?”
Good question.
Remember, they both signed this document:
We, gathered as the Scottish Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount.
http://www.englishclaimofright.com/history-of-the-scottish-claim-of-right.eng
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_of_Right_1989
http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/tom-griffin/2008/08/29/brown-must-recognise-englands-claim-of-right
50 inbred ? Tim as a draperbot, you would know all about that.
44. Hazel does have to be on a dream ticket, I agree. Personally, I’d pair her with Keith Vaz. Oh the years of NuLab prosperity we could look forward to……
44: Evan Harris for my money.
Or Keith Vaz.
52.
“Quentin Davies/Ruth Kelly”
Well, she has got big sheepish eyes!
re 60 “HH does appeal very strongly to the hater types, however for every vote she attracts she will repel another two. Bring her on and watch NuLab fall below 20%!”
Source please?
50. And you’re practising to be reincarnated as an Afghan hound then are you?
Balls at 10s… might be worth a flutter.
Harman’s still favourite and rightly so. But apparently Balls has been going down very well with the PLP.
64.
I am not sure Vaz and Kaufman have ever been photographed together.
57 Simon Hughes and Peter Mandelson, Lord Mandelson of Foy
Vince Cable and Ian Paisley
Alec Salmond and Daffyd Wigley Worm
Oliver Letwin and Baroness Amos
Michael Martin and Graham Brady
All good fun
As usual the last posting by yours truly and this is what I said:
Evening all, yes Gisella Stuart would be an ideal candidate for a defection. She is going to lose her seat after all but these days seems to have more in common with Dave than McDoom
I guess no polls tonight
by Easterross March 7th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
I think this could be a very clever move by Hattie Harperson. Running the election campaign means she will not need to be in Westminster much after Easter when little of interest tends to happen in Parliament. Hattie meantime will be travelling the length and breadth of the country, pressing the flesh, getting to sook up to the voters, not the general public but those who will form large parts of the electoral college for the Labour leadership election.
If she impresses constituency and trade union bods then if as we all expect, Labour is humped, everyone can blame McDoom and if the party can then engineer his departure, Hattie can come to the rescue.
HH reminds me of that old Sigue Sigue Sputnik - Love Missile F1-11 song video
It is fascinating to watch but complete B0ll0cks! Not really even a song.
62 - Its weird.
Heres a silly coat with a very well bred creature beneath it
http://wouldacouldashoulda.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/afghan-hound.jpg
And heres another one.
http://www.paulbrason.co.uk/Images/The%20Hon%20Jacob%20Rees-Mogg%201990%20Oil%20-%20Large.jpg
50 Tim, I had never thought of you as an Afghan hound but I will take your word for it
It wouldn’t surprise me if it was Hattie her self that planted this story. The quickest way to dispell dark magic is to let day light in on it. 3 months of stories about how she is being set up over the euros and the story isn’t ” Oh look shes buggered the Euro’s up” its ” Oh look she’s being knifed by brown Central again while that Balls is allowed to campaign with impunity. Sexists pigs.
Put more simply if you are going to cut someones break cables on the 4th of June you don’t advertise it in the Guardina in March. It allows you to surve the attempt on your life by diary management.
Internal party elections are about three things.
1. preaching to the Choir. She’s doing that
2. early access to the membership lists. Shes deputy leader, party chair ands now election coordinator
3. Indegestion from rubber chicken and fat contacts book.
As i have observed before if you add up her party roles, her non departmental cabinet rank and her pork barrel patronage as leader of the House she is in a formibable position.
We are paying her a cabinet ministers salary to be in effect a full time leadership candidate.
Is there any politician on either side who looks so cretinously gormless as Batty Hattie? I mean, Broon is useless but he doesn’t actually look thick. Hattie looks thick. She looks placidly, upper-class, smug patrician thick. She has the vacant glazed gaze I imagine on the faces of upper-class twit generals who sent the troops over the top to die in WW1 - a sort of heavy-lidded zer-watt-bulb dimness.
Of course the Labour leadership is reserved for middle / upper class hetero males who went to a selective school followed by Oxbridge, so this rather rules Hattie out of the running for the top Labour job. I so hope she somehow becomes Labour leader, though. She’d be perfect for the Tories.
This part of the Guardians article is interesting;
“One minister said Harman, who is party chairman as well as deputy leader, appeared to have been lined up to “carry the can” for any collapse in June. Although Labour has already lost so many town hall seats that it would be difficult to lose significantly more, the battle will be over the share of the vote, with Labour aides worried about coming third behind the Liberal Democrats.”
It talks about how it will be difficult for Labour to lose many more town hall seats, and I would agree with that. However, the seats up for grabs this time are actually county council seats - Seats that were last contested in 2005, which suggests to me Labour have quite large scope to lose a high number of seats?
With the Euro elections only a few months away will we start to see the pollsters focus on this election soon?
61 Thanks Stuart.
Don’t you think the ‘Claim of Right’ is a conundrum for NuLabour? Surely if Scotland wants independence, then Labour must allow Scotland it’s independence referendum? Err I don’t think they will allow it or accept the result. Labour are so hypocritical. Damn them, ba**ards.
68 - You need to worry about his upward trajectory…
Given Jonah Brown’s curse surely his not supporting you is a good thing? I wonder how much more the debt and destruction has to be, before they all get their Minesterial P45s?
76.
She shares a facial characteristic with her noble kinsman Cameron, Willie Whitelaw and the Duke of Westminster. Broad forrid and oyster eyes. Possibly a repetitive genetic loop?
Interesting reading this thread from the afternoon when Harriet became deputy leader.
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2007/06/24/late-betting-move-to-harman/
51 – Re: wageslave, would W/S or someone be kind enough to explain to me what his point is!
I may have missed the defining moment when he divulged his political stance/beliefs/allegiance whatever or the key to his ‘comedic value’ etc, but reading his post, I always get a sense that he is err, to put it politely, auditioning for a spot on the buzz-cocks and totally in the wrong place.
re 78. I guess that there might be one or two polls - but who the heck cares? The only real interest is on the Labour share and whether the BNP get seats.
76.
“She’d be perfect for the Tories.”
Well, when Cameron retires…..
This gives her three clear months to campaign for the leadership under the guise of running the Euro campaign.
McDoom is such a muppet — should have given her the home sec job.
66. Mike - Re your comment at 56. I don’t disagree but HH does have a couple of traits which lend to her losing some further credibility through this.
Firstly, she does sometimes say/ do things without thinking as she did before C&N. Secondly as we saw last week she doesn’t always do detail that well or prepare sufficiently.
She will need to avoid the former and make sure she does the latter. If she doesn’t she will damage the campaign.
Furthermore, if the campaign results in a battering then some of it will rub off on her.
I do think it is a poison chalice. She will need to limit the damage to a couple of points of vote share lost or else she will be tainted by the defeat.
51.
Weathercock, you are just a recreational Brown-stirrer are you not?
Now I’m off to re-familiarise myself with my favourite Tory soft spot.
83 Whether its for better or worse, I seems I had not found pb.com by then, I actually found it via a link, I think from Iain Dale.
If I had found PB, I think I would have been aghast, its the sort of reverse of Healey winning v Benn. That saved Labour. Harriet saving Labour.. I somehow doubt it.
OT, but are we anywhere closer to being able to either filter posts out by certain posters or at least have names before the post?
83.
RodCrosby actually posted something I agree with on that thread;
Harman is just another speaking clock like Hewitt. A very voter-unfriendly combination with Brown, imho.. About as welcome as the Dentist and the District Nurse…
by RodCrosby June 24th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Fancy that!
One thing that we’ve not discussed yet, is that another reason for getting Harriet to do the local and euro campaign is that Brown, Alexander and Mandy may want to keep their diary’s clear to be able to co-ordinate a general election, should Obama give them the bounce they desire.
92.Oh, no. I don’t like Harman, but Hewitt was in a different league of awfulness.
93 - Maybe… but unlikely.
94, truly nobody before or since has been that godawful and patronising.
If she were still around she’d be claiming 2008 was Labour’s Best Year Ever!
96 - It must have been her antipodean birth!
James Forsyth at the Coffee House has this must read article on Afghanistan - Obama: The US is not winning in Afghanistan
And at the end..
“PS On the financial front, I was particularly struck by this comment from Obama:
“part of what you’re seeing now is weaknesses in Europe that are actually greater than some weaknesses here, bouncing back and having an impact on our markets.””
Surely Happy Harpic’s calculation is that leading the EU campaign boosts her leadership bid. She’ll start and end every speech/interview/sound bite with “Vote for Labour led by Gordon Brown.” When most of the electorate respond with “On yer bike,” who looks the loser, Hattie or Gordon?
95. Wouldn’t it be good if they did get enough of a bounce for MandyCampbell to be able to bully Brown into it though? We’d have this ghastly government out of power in just three months…. A boy can dream.
re 92. Has Rod ever posted anything positive about a female politician?
100 - True!
98. “part of what you’re seeing now is weaknesses in Europe that are actually greater than some weaknesses here, bouncing back and having an impact on our markets.””
Hmmmmm…. Now just which european country could he be talking about?
Apparantly Obama was just too tired…aww
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4953523/Barack-Obama-too-tired-to-give-proper-welcome-to-Gordon-Brown.html
101. Probably not… But I still agree with him on Hattie (and Pat)
56 I can’t her appealing to anything other than a certain section of the Labour core vote, however.
Just to put this in context the results of the last corresponding elections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2004_(UK)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2005
The interesting thing is that of course the County Council elections were held at the same time as the GE. Could that in itself make it harder for Labour in the coming County Council elections?
re 103. so while Gord is blaming the Americans Obama is blaming Europe. There’s a certain symmetry there.
101 Re Barking forget the Bookies. Which one wants the grief that would result from putting odds to that seat. BTW Any Lib/Lab seats piece appearing.
“Could that in itself make it harder for Labour in the coming County Council elections?”
Without a doubt.
110. Sean, how many CC seats do you think Labour will lose?
104 .. not to tired to spend twice as much time with the US Scouts.
112, a bad excuse is worse than none. He may as well have said he had to wash his hair later that day.
112 - Maybe.
113 - nah, he can’t have said that. Or Brown would have volunteered to wash it for him.
113 - maybe just shows how much contempt Obama has for Brown.
10.”Sneaky move by Brown, sending Harman over the top to get mangled in the barbed wire and shredded by shrapnel.”
That just it, as the Guardian headline shows, classic modus operandi of Brown and his team.
But I disagree with Mike Smithson. I don’t think Harriet has a great electoral appeal at all, and I bet that Gordon Brown’s private polling bears this out. If Gordon thought for a minute that his premiership would be bolstered by this idea, he would be milking it rather than being seen desperately rushing over to meet Obama in America.
She might be doing well amongst the core vote though, and so in a GTCV strategy, its maybe not been such a bad idea.
111 c.200 or so.
HH may very well energise the Labour base and increase Labour turnout. So although Labour may do badly, the actual result may beat expectations.
And beating expectations - for HH - would be a victory..
It would NOT be a disaster..
Of course it could all go pear shaped.. but she is not a fool# and I think could surprise people.
# except on the Marr show..
I wonder if those DVDs are NTSC and won’t play on Brown’s turgid PAL only TV/DVD combi??
Looks like Obama already can’t hack it.
If Obama thinks that Brown has made an even bigger mess of our economy than even the US economy, it could be that whilst he pays lip service to a fellow leftie, he may actually hold Brown in contempt. I mean to Obama it would be expected that the Republicans would make a mess of the US economy, but perhaps he is genuinely disappointed at the mess a fellow comrade has made. So, that maybe explains Obamas rather rude behaviour towards Brown?
This depends on how the membership view the Euros. They EXPECT bad news, so anything near the previous figures they might just be happy. Thats the key, what is the expectation within Labour.
Its possible Labour is so close to a floor in its Euro vote that there isnt much left to shed.
118. That would be a disaster. I was thinking 100 or so would be bad.
118. Thanks Sean.
What share of the vote do you think that would leave them on (I realise its a bit early for questions like this, so if you don’t want to guess yet, it doesn’t matter)
This move of Brown’s, if it bears the interpretation suggested in the thread, could possibly be cunning. More likely, though, it’ll yet another example of him being too clever by half, and having it blow up in his stupid, scheming face in one way or another. Just like BJ4BW, or the 10p tax rate or Lloyds/HBOS or lots of other stunts. Either the Labour Party does slightly better than expected, and Harman’s stature is thereby enhanced, or nobody will talk about anything the next day except how well the BNP did, or something unexpected will happen to make Harriet look good.
123 They have 564 at present. To lose 100 would be quite a good result for Labour.
124 My guess is about 28% (better than 2007 and 2008 but worse than 2005.)
200 seats is eating into the meat, not the fat.
77. GIN - correct. There is scope for major embarassment for Labour in the county council elections.
O/T But looks like the government lied again
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7930708.stm
Harperson has appeal amongst the Zanus and the sisterhood and that’s a sizeable proportion of the ZNL membership. If you appeal to those people then you’re pretty much guaranteed not to appeal to anyone normal but when it comes to curdling voters I don’t think she’d be worse than McDoom.
127 It’s bad, but if Labour did as badly as in 2008 (and the Conservatives as well) it would be more like 300. Typically though, year 3 of a Parliament represents the absolute low point of the local government cycle for a governing party.
1973 for the Conservatives, 1977 for Labour, 1990 for the Conservatives, 1995 for the Conservatives, 2000 for Labour, 2004 for Labour, were all their worst years in local elections. The exceptions were 1982 (the Falklands War led the Conservatives to make small gains) and 1986 (the Conservatives’ worst set of results was 1985).
An ECB committee member’s view on the mad cutting of interest rates..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abyd1k3T2dyA&refer=home
I mentioned the other day that this constant cutting of rates to such low levels is a waste. People are over indebted full stop. Lower rates dont take the basic debt away so the problem still exists.
Thanks Sean.
Another discredited Minister back in the cabinet???. Strikes me as ridiculous
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/patrick__hennessy_/blog/2009/03/07/memo_to_gordon_brown_get_peter_hain_back_in_the_cabinet
121. I suspect what may have happened is that Brown’s people bother Obama’s people non-stop to meet up. The Obama people, with so many domestic concerns, felt they didn’t really have time to do this, and felt the whole idea of meeting with the British Prime Minister didn’t achieve any of Obama’s first 100 days objectives and continued to rebut Downing street. Eventually, frustrated and under constant pressuring, they gave him a half hour.
Then, when it happened, Brown treated it (rightfully) like a grander event and behaved as a statesman. The White House, unprepared from the eruption in the British press acted all persnickety and told them, behind the scenes “what makes you so special” in irritation. Then they realised the full embarrassment of it all and are now trying to make amends. I bet Brown gets a very nice gift when Obama turns up for the G20.
50. Tim, that is a highly offensive anti-English racist slur. Please can you withdraw it.
It seems it is fine to display blatant racism against the English, according the hard-left activists on the internet such as Tim.
Doesn’t this put Derek Draper’s rants into context. If he is so concerned about racism, why does he never raise the fact that the victims of most racial attacks are white, the perpetrators non-white, for at least the 5 years before the embarrassed Labour government abolished the collection of this statistic several years ago.
It has been a fact true of Marxism for the last 150 years that it’s real agenda is to direct racist hate against the more productive and successful members of society.
Through these means it perpetuates poverty and squalor as society is turned in on itself and destroyed the only people capable of generating properity (i.e. the able few with rare ability necessary for the complex specilaised skills required to create, build and maintain the complex products, infrastructure and services of modern society).
Consider how Scotland was destroyed by Marxist hegemony over the last 50 years. More then 40% of Scotland’s population were considering emigrating as recently as 2005! The victory of the SNP in 2006 brought in the first non-Marxist Scottish leadership in 50 years.
Just as there are biological diseases that spread decay through the body, so there are mental viruses that spread disease and decay through the minds of people. Marxism is such a virus. It has infected the minds of the BBC, teaching profession and Tim.
Let us hope for a cure.
125. I have visions of Harman apologising for something the current government has done days before the election, warming the hearts of the base.
Watching ‘The Satanic Affair’ now on BBC2.Ifully expect to hate it !
117. Had an interesting conversation at work - I am the interested-in-politics one in the office.
When asked who was likely to follow Brown, I mentioned the possibility of Hattie. The expression of revulsion was universal. I had to explain about the core vote and the election system for Labour leaders before they would believe that anyone could actually consider her for the job. The killer argument was “yes, a major political party *could* be that stupid - Ian Duncan Smith, anyone?”
Has anyone got a link to the vote share summary for the 2005 County Council elections?
I’ve looked in all my normal election information sites and can’t find anything.
139. Interestingly though what is Labour’s membership these days? I doubt it is like in 1983, Miners and the like. Surely the main membership after the Iraq debacle is new Labour? Just a thought!
136. I came accross a lawyer who loves Scottish nationalism - her practise specialises in employment claims in Scotland. Apparently, you can reliably get statements of violent anti-English bigotry out of company managers *in front of tribunals etc* - instant wins.
She made a crack about buying Mel Gibson a drink if she ever meets him….
This could prove toxic…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7930708.stm
141. My guess would be largely heriditary members - people who are religiously Labour.
Judging by the ones I’ve met, they are stiull living in 1945. Mind you, I don’t blame them. Brown vs Atlee…..
139. Hmm, maybe if you spend years mixing with sisterhood types you develop a thicker skin to them. Compared to someone like Clare Short or Eagle, Harperson is only mildly annoying to me.
145, Eagle is much worse. Saw her on Newsnight once. Like a female Timms mixed with Yvette Cooper. Ugh.
144. Really i would have thought alot of the pacifist Labour party would have given up on them.
145. Eagle sounds and looks like the worlds ultimate pessimist! Laughly depressing to listen too/Watch!
Clare Short is no longer Labour (Whipped anyway) - Apparently she thinks Nick Palmer and some of his mates should be defeated in marginal seats!
HH is so condescending and the personification of the Nanny state! Maybe her Nanny instilled that into her that the public are like Children who need to be told!
145 - Which Eagle?
Hold their noses and pretend that anything they don’t like is really the fault of the Tories - think coldstone etc.
One chap I had a drink with managed to belive that Iraq was nothing to do with the Labour party. I wish I had that kind of ability to bend my perception of reality….
149. Angela, she is a Minister!
150, sounds like a character from 1984, an obedient member of the Outer Party.
14.wageslave, have you been at the Macallan’s again?
126 The actual Labour vote share in the County Council elections ( as opposed to the BBC projected share ) will be below 20% .
The elections being fought are in mostly Conservative areas . In 2005 on GE day Labour only polled 25% of the vote in these elections and their most favourable councils Durham and Northumberland along with Cheshire are not polling this year .
143. No it isnt. All that stuff is out there and wont affect any votes that havent been affected already.
149. Forget her first name — Angela?
152. No - he was a Keeper Of The Flame. Loved the history of Labour, the socialist dream etc.
I know what you mean - but he was obviously a man in torment. I associate what you are saying with those who consciously do that kind of double-think
150.
The Basis of Labour Party Memory and Policy! It’s the Tories fault!
I remember Prescott in one of his last outing as deputy PM standing in for Blair - Someone asked him a question about a government failure and he just said it was the Tories fault. WTF Labour had been in power 10 years!
Labour really want to be in opposition because they can then blame it on the Tories, whatever it is - this is Labours default position. It is one of the reasons that Labour could suffer a catastrophic failure at the next election.
140 http://www.research.plymouth.ac.uk/view.asp?page=16191
150. Yeah, I know people who don’t believe McDoom stole all that money from the pension funds. They think it’s “tory lies” because Labour would never steal pensions.
154 I agree. I was thinking of projected share.
IIRC the projected shares in 2005 were Labour 34%, Conservative 31%, Lib Dem 25%.
For those who are interested vote shares in County/ Unitary Council Elections in 2005 were:
Con 40%
Lab 25%
LD 28%
http://www.research.plymouth.ac.uk/elections/elections/2005%20results.htm
HH is a nonce sympathiser - I really do not know why OGH rates HH. I wonder if anyone has nobled HH in Cabinet on this one to get it through?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4949555/Harriet-Harman-under-attack-over-bid-to-water-down-child-pornography-law.html
163. to get it through = to stop her
156 See my post 25!
160 not only did they screw the pension funds by the removal of tax relief on dividends, quantitive easing will trash them even more than the stock market crash has already…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/4950466/Retirement-plans-of-millions-of-Britons-at-risk-after-Bank-of-England-prints-money.html
162 Yes but as I posted earlier these include Durham Northumberland and Cheshire . Excluding these would put Labour on around 24% .
163 They are out to shaft her. This is No 10 doing, almost certainly
159. Thanks for that. I didn’t see you had replied. I think that link you provided might be out of date. It came up page not found.
168. They certainly seem as if they are.
169 oops should say pages not page
168. Yes - there seems to be a concerted effort do do this at the moment. But i am not sure who is worse - Brown or HH: They both seem equally flawed to me. The thing that amuses me about Labour at the moment is every possible alternative as Leader is as crap as Brown!
Though even Brown managers to score points and win against Nick Clegg at PMQ’s! I am just waiting for Brown to comment on Yellow Taxi’s! 
Is this just an excuse to put more cameras out there?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/4953745/Speed-limit-on-rural-roads-to-be-cut-to-50mph.html
134. Maybe he could pay his frail eighty year old mother to do his diary work, after all he paid her out of public funds to do his constituency work.
141. “Interestingly though what is Labour’s membership these days?”
I dropped out before Iraq but in inner London it was:
1) The sort of people whose great grandads had been the first ever labour councillors in their area — family tradition type people.
2) Trade union activists - nowhere near as many as there used to be.
3) Foreigners of various kinds.
4) Guardianistas.
Not sure what long-term effect Iraq has had and the membership varies a lot by area but I’d still imagine at least 1/3 who might go for Hattie.
172
Of course the major worry is that everyone in the cabiniet is either manouvering for themselves or manoueveriung for someone else. Its appalling considering the state the country is in.
Of course only one man is to blame, the odious and utterly useless Gordon Brown, who was visited upon us without an election of Labour MP’s. ThHey are all equally culpable.
Just to add to the BJ4BW argument in time for the Euros:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/4952904/Crime-by-foreigners-doubles-in-five-years.html
169/171 The correct link is http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/pages/view.asp?page=16191
84.”I may have missed the defining moment when he divulged his political stance/beliefs/allegiance whatever or the key to his ‘comedic value’ etc, but reading his post, I always get a sense that he is err, to put it politely, auditioning for a spot on the buzz-cocks and totally in the wrong place.”
I don’t think that wageslave ever did divulge those details on PB.com, he just seems to like keeping the Tory herd under control by yapping at their heels.
BARACK Obama will stage a lavish reception for ex-IRA chief Martin McGuinness - days after snubbing Gordon Brown.
The US president will hold two hours of talks with the former terror boss - more than FOUR TIMES the time he granted the PM.
The News of the World can reveal the astonishing snub has infuriated Downing Street and the British Embassy in Washington.
McGuinness, now Deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland, flies to America tomorrow (MONDAY) with First Minister Peter Robinson on a ten day tour.
And the pair will enjoy two hours of talks with the US president and a luxurious gala reception on St Patrick’s Day, in nine days’ time.
Mr Brown was forced to use a side entrance at the White House and spent just 30 minutes in private talks with the new US President.
Mr McGuinness will walk in through the front door and be given the full State Visit treatment, and will party into the small hours at a special Irish-themed party.
In contrast, a joint press conference with President Obama and the Prime Minister was cancelled by President Obama’s team and the pair had a brief working lunch.
But McGuinness and Robinson will be given a grand reception and will be guests of honour at the star-studded party.
173 - Why don’t they just go the whole hog, ban the car and subsidise horse riding lessons!
173 Sat morning in my town, one of the feeder roads into it, hardly a car on the road or pedestrian v,30 mph limit,yet pc
plod(ess) was there with a mobile speed trap, meanwhile on the dual carriageway, people were zipping past me at 90 mph plus..
And how many law suits (for libel/slander?) will this result in?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4953258/Family-doctors-will-be-rated-on-NHS-website.html
Labour - wasting our money…….
174. Congratulations Cllr Gaz! I see you have updated your moniker!
175. A fair number of immigrants are actually hard-right by UK standards. Hanging, corporal punishment, no benefits for those who refuse to work etc.
My ex. from a years back was from Ghana - within 20 minutes of meeting the local Conservative commitee they were trying to sign her up as a candidate for the council.. . though they were a bit worried by her approach to Afghanistan.
178. Thanks…..
140. The figures are meaningless to compare performances in June, every one of the County council elections sine 1997 has occurred at the same time as a general election, thus the people in an area are making a decision on a 65% turnout.
A local election would normally get between 30% and 45%, this is important for the purposes of differential turnout. Your supporters will come out in droves at the General election and cast their vote for the county at the same time, but wont be bothered for the county/euros together.
It was this differential turnout which gave Hague a couple of false dawns, showing incredibly successful european and local elections, in a pre-postal vote climate, with extremely low turnouts. As soon as turnouts increased, as in 2001, seats in the same divsions/wards that the tories took by a hundred or so votes the year before, Labour picked up by six or seven hundred.
175. I had relatives (Not Blood but Marrage) whose Parents were involved in the set up of the Labour party! It’s funny because the Blood relations were always - Bloody Socialists about the others!
85.”re 78. I guess that there might be one or two polls - but who the heck cares? The only real interest is on the Labour share and whether the BNP get seats.”
Mike, that is why she has been given the job.
And now we now Labour has a ‘choice fetish’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5864638.ece
Byrne, whose brief includes the civil service, said he would sack underperforming officials who did not share his reforming zeal. “It has got to be easier to get rid of civil servants who don’t make the grade.
Oh how little he knows about the Civil Service…….
184. Dont worry, it wont last, i’ll probably have about thirty complaints to the standards board between now and next year.
191. I am sure you will do well at it, even if you are a Liberal Democrat!
Best of Luck!
185. My Mrs, from Nigeria, got a job at the local council a few weeks after getting here, in the Revenues and Benefits section. I swear, every day she came home more right wing then the day before ‘why am i paying my tax for these people’, thankfully she got a job elsewhere, or i am sure she would now be second lieutenant to Nick Griffin…
190 - the other problem is that Byrne would place ‘cold soup’ and ‘weak coffee’ in the same importance category as ‘MRSA outbreak’.
180, The president saw Marty’s picture from afew years and thought it was Art Garfunkel coming to play at the White House do.
191. If i was eating my conrnflakes i would have chucked them up all over my nice new macbook pro. I am not a liberal democrat!!!
193. One of my mates Married a woman from Ghana! She is pretty rightwing as well! It always amases me some of the stuff he comes out with as well like refering to the corner shop as the ‘paki shop’ and in the same sentence saying I am not rascist but…..
196 . 191=192
196. What are you then?
185. Sure but recent immigrants often have relatives they want into the country and even those who don’t see immigration as a kind of proxy issue so they go for whichever party is the most pro immigration. That is one of the mad things about the modern Left - gay rights and women’s rights and whatnot in a rainbow coalition with people who had opposite and very extreme opinions on those things. As long as the Left parties are the most pro-immigration they’ll get 60-80% of the foreign vote.
187. Thanks. I appreciate that….
190 How many times has 1:1 tuition for school children been launched? Its almost up there with loft lagging, its been in Gordon’s conference speeches, budget speeches. The websites were announced last Autumn, the personal budgets at least twice before, possibly more.
I just hope there is at least one reporter there who has done a bit of research and asks “so what’s new?” but there will not be - Nick R will ask his question for BBC news, Tom Bradby his for ITV, whoever is standing in their one for Sky.
each Gordon re-launch just seems to be a pick n mix of policies already announced but not acted on.
On topic: Surely this will rebound on Brown? By now the hurdle for the Euros and council elections is set absurdly low for Labour. Not only that, but there are two strategies for fighting the election:
1) A Pro-Brown campaign
2) Ignore Brown campaign
If 1) fails, it’s Brown’s fault. If it works, it’s HH skills. If 2) fails, it’s still Brown’s fault. If it works it’s HH brave decision.
The performance of the Labour party hinges on its leader - not it’s deputy leader with notional responsibility for the elections. If things go badly it’s Gord’s fault. If it goes well, HH gets organisational credit. I see this as a no lose situation for HH.
The key question is - after the euros and council elections, assuming Labour does as badly as the polls suggest will people be calling for HH head on a stick or Gord’s?
Weren’t we expecting a poll tonight?
Is this a dereliction of democratic duty? Are ministers dodging their accountability?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4953256/Scientists-to-be-given-power-to-decide-on-vaccinations.html
In other news:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/article5864847.ece
W… T… F!
Hain said the “Reagan Thatcherite era” of deregulated capitalism was over and claimed there had been “abysmal failures” of the market, particularly in housing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4953738/Peter-Hain-warns-that-more-New-Labour-will-lose-the-Government-the-next-election.html
I notice Hain does not mention the regulator failing to clamp down on No. x Salary ratio’s, Buy to let legislation changes under Labour and other Labour inspired failure.
179 - C’mon Chris, just think!! He’s a LibDem and displays 100% of that party’s characteristics that we all know and loath.
206.You have to laugh, or you will cry.
Straw backs down unsurprisingly:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/4954058/Government-abandons-data-sharing-scheme.html
Tonight’s poll is another excellent poll for the Tories. NuLabour under the Brown/Harman dictatorship falls further behind and with the LibDems at an estimated 7.5% it means that the Tory share of the vote has now reached almost 119%.
It looks to be a long way back for the rightwing government of Brown/Harman and rumour has it that they and a further 300 plus NuLabour MPs will resign their seats to fight ‘Bulldog Davies’ by-elections for their seats at Westminster.
William Hague has dismissed Brown’s ploy as a gimmick and says that the Tories and LibDems have both agreed not to put up candidates.
“We don’t want to rule Britain,” says Hague. “In fact if the PM calls a general election we won’t fight any seats currently held by the fascists in government.” It is believed that David Cameron is considering a Private Members Bill from Bill Cash that would extend the current parliament until three weeks after the end of the recession.
“If we were to take over at any time in the next couple of years,” said Cash, “we’d not be elected again in my lifetime nor that of anyone else currently alive on earth.”
One small hitch in the proposed bill is the short clause 2 which ends British membership of the EU. The shadow business secretary puffing on his usual pipe of hush puppies was heard to mumble something about his dead body, or possibly Cash’s dead body.
George Osbourne is almost 7.
199 - Gaz is a Tory, like 99% of the Councillors posting here!
206. The Tories should appose that straight away - completly stupid policy - Isn’t the minister Scottish as well? Westlothian tyoe qyestions come into play.
208.JohnO, absolutely, but I bet that he likes a vintage Macallan as well.
163. WOW! Thats nasty! :O
Another PPS resigns over Mandys ‘mail sale’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5864856.ece
213.Give over Martin, have you seen our roads?
213 - he is the MP for Poplar and Canning Town
211 Malcolm, Shouldnt you be on Labourlist not here. You would feel far more at home I can assure you.
212. I am sorry to Cllr Gaz! I thought last night the LD’s were claiming a victory and he was the victor - I realise i mistock the valient conquest of a Tory against socialists, LD’s and other monkey spankers for something else. My eternal appoligise Cllr Gaz as there can be no lower insult than being called a LD! If some called me an LD, I don’t know what i would do. The Glass table would have had it for starters!
Here is a song for Mark oaten:
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?hl=en&q=the%20Scat%20Man&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#q=the+Scat+Man+1995&hl=en&emb=0
206 ‘W… T… F!’
Exactly. Well, The Watcher that’s one way to lose what remains of the motorists vote!
212. Well, to be honest, i am a neo liberal thatcherite, and the Conservatives, of the big three parties are the nearest to that, but even thats a token effort…
Just need to keep fighting the fight from within.
211. Malcolm. It’s just not funny. Tim’s rude comments about R-M are much funnier. Martin Day is funnier. SeanT is much funnier.
222 - Hmmm. Some of us are really quite happy as Tories. But a broad church as they say…
216.How many is that now, in fact how many have signed that Royal Mail EDM and are still in their posts?
The Liberal Democrat leader blasted the Iron Lady’s ‘brutal money-above-morality’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1160054/Nick-Clegg-accuses-Margaret-Thatcher-sowing-seeds-financial-collapse.html
I wonder if Clegg was a bit silly bringing up morality - The same bloke who boasted about ‘banging’ 30 women.
Is Peter Hain setting out his stall to lead the Labour Party after the election?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4953738/Peter-Hain-warns-that-more-New-Labour-will-lose-the-Government-the-next-election.html
226 - he didn’t ‘bang’ them! Liberal Democrats don’t ‘bang’ women. They make sweet, sandaled love to them while listening to soothing panpipe music…
Sorry
No 10 really ARE out to get Hattie
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4953559/Harriet-Harman-less-popular-than-Peter-Mandelson-among-Labour-members.html
211 Hilda
I hate NuLabour, and merely dislike the Tories.
I have never bothered to look at a Labour Party site; I consider them to be a bunch of thieves. They stole my party and my country.
Its no surprise that since they have been in power I have spent more time abroad than I’ve spent in the UK. Sorry to disabuse you, but that’s life. Now the Tories under Hilda ['s jackboot] is another matter altogether. But the milk and water Tories of today are no threat to anyone. In fact if I’m honest with myself I don’t really dislike them, I don’t feel anything at all.
220. In cumbria the Conservatives and the LibDems have a strange relationship. In Carlisle and Cumbria in general they have worked together for a number of years, though recently going through a lovers tiff on the County council, on the City they are still serenading each other with moonlight dinners.
Some of the finest, and hardest working councillors on the local City council are libdems. Up here it is the Labour Party who are the enemy, its been ten years, but we still remember their reign of terror on the City.
229. Shes really incured The Clunking Ones wrath hasn’t she? Of course, this is the way he destroyed all his rivals while he was chancellor, through smears, spin, bullying and dirty tricks.
Harriets in a strong position though. Out of her and Brown at shes got an electoral madate from her own party. Brown should be careful how far he goes to undermine her….. Though after this weekends Sunday papers I can’t see how he could go much further. I assume from tomorrow onwards it will be all out war between Brown and Harman!
230
Thats rather contrary to what you usually posat Malcom. but You are prejudging. Why not wait and see.
231. Not sure whether it covers your area but when Whitlaw was an MP for Penrith and the Border - Yellow was the Tory colour IIRC!
232: Theres only one way to settle this…..FIGHT!
Anti Harriet stories so far;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/07/harman-heads-labour-europe-elections
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4949555/Harriet-Harman-under-attack-over-bid-to-water-down-child-pornography-law.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4953559/Harriet-Harman-less-popular-than-Peter-Mandelson-among-Labour-members.html
How many more will there be in tomorrows papers?
234. Yellow has been a Tory colour in Penrith and The Border ddue to the Earls of Lonsdale from Lowther Castle favoured the colour. It goes back will into the 19th. Century.
The tycoon, who has a central role in the Tory election campaign in marginal constituencies, added at the launch of Sandra Howard’s novel A Matter of Loyalty: “It is too late for the Labour backbenchers now. Everything is already in train for the general election.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mandrake/4954725/Dominic-Grieve-loses-plum.html
This is what i like about Ashcroft two fingers at Labour! The story starts off about a shadow minister!
235. Brown wouldn’t have the guts?
230.
So there you are.
I miss tyson’s honesty, the irritation of Gabble
and Malcolm’s teacherly scolding and over use of the word Hilda.
by SallyC March 6th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Hilda
You got me all wrong sunshine. On here, mainly Tories who do an excellent job destroying the cut-throat government. All I do is have some jibing at the majority; the nasty [spells as NAZI] UK government don’t need me to attack them, you all do it, so I amuse my tiny mind by tickling you sensitive parts. I’m sure I do a pretty bad job - but it keeps me happy whilst waiting for my next three months abroad. My neighbour will be able to have 3 months of loud heavy rock shortly so everyone is happy when I’m away.
I wonder whats happened to Gabble? Do you think even he has stopped flying the red flag?
240
Just seeing SallyC at the bottom of a post keeps me cheerful.
Where/when are you going away Malcolm?
Seems to be a shooting in NI.
I always liked to pretend to myself that Gabble was Hoon — maybe he’s plotting.
Malcolm, you get some flak but we need you.
The challenge from the ‘left’ has become rather unchallenging of late.
232
Surely Brown cannot be the only one who knows where the bodies are buried. Hattie must know too or others do. Its a two way game that could get very nasty indeed. For sure Brown sees her as a threat.
244 Looks like he has gone.
Have you all chase him off already?
One word: Andrew.
241 Than you Malcolm. I see you in a slightly different light.
246.I thought the general consensus was that he was a more easily excitable Denis McShane?
MTF. Balls will know. That’s the alternative explanation as to why he isn’t getting into trouble for going off piste.
251. heh, that’s even better.
Part 1
I find it very interesting that there is this desire in the media to protray Vince Cable as the only person that warned of the economic collapse following a debt fuelled bubble. Considering the Conservatives, Nuriel Roubini, many authors of books, and my humble self on this forum said the same this is all bit strange!
There seems to be a weird conspiracy going on in the media. I can’t understand the point of it. It benefits no one.
Beyond that prediction Vince Cable has been confused with nothing of real value to say since. He has also shown a degree of nastiness which is surprising and conceited.
Nothing Vince Cable said since makes sense.
Cable said nationalise the banks. I warned it wouldn’t work. Cable became the government mouthpiece.
On this Cable and the government have been proved wrong. The bank bailout have caused the UK economic crisis to deteriorate into the worst in the developed world, in terms of the size of ever-increasing bank bailouts and taxpayer liabilities.
Cable, admit you got this wrong.
For example, through bailing out Northern Rock the Labour government has wasted an undisclosed amount of money, believed to be billions (official losses admitted to be £1.4 billion last week). Northern Rock should have been allowed to collapse. Bailing it out was a pure waste of money. And we’d all now agree it was done to conceal the scale of the economic mess when Brown had been considering holding an election (Sept-Oct 07).
All of this stuff about Harriet is coming from Balls. Or Mandy. I’m not sure which. Maybe both of them? With Browns priviso of course.
We always said Mandy would eventually start spreading his poison around after Brown brought him back. Seems to be happening in style this weekend. Yes, it will get nasty I’m quite sure. Harriet probably doesn’t have many supporters, if any, in Cabinet, but like I keep coming back to, she does actually have a mandate from the Labour Party, which is more than can be said for Brown. That puts her in a strong position, IMO.
BTW, my post at 244 wasn’t meant to imply that I want Malcolm to go away. I was refering to his holiday. I quite Malcolm, he brings something rather…. Unique to PB.COM. He’s certainly brought back the name HILDA!
Mandy is probably encouraging them all separately and secretly.
If there is enough intrigue, confusion and disloyality around Brown - his head will explode.
Mandy sponsored by Nokia.
It’s getting a bit like the way it was in the cold war with people trying to figure out what was going on inside the Kremlin.
257. Yes Sally quite right, he’d has everyones ear. He’s be whipping them all up into a frenzy. He’s probably got a “chosen one” candidate that he’s keeping out of it all at the moment. Let them all destroy each other, then let his candidate come through and pick up whats left. Don’t you just love the intrigue and machinations of the Labour Party?
Shame all of this plotting is going on while the country is flushed down the pan, though…..
Just caught up on the cricket news…seriously this must be the most boring tour ever….flat wickets, massive scores, once again looking like a draw.
258 At least the Kremlin knew what was going on inside the Kremiln.
Cricket is boring without Dave.
245 Sky report an unconfirmed 2 dead and 5 wounded. Dreadful. Trouble in NI has been building up over the last year. It’s well known that the ‘problem’ has never gone away, it’s simply been training and gathering information.
Found Marf’s rat.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5864697.ece
240- sallyC- I just got disillusioned with politics. And, to be brutally honest, there is nothing about the Tories to hate anymore. On that I can agree with “young” Malcolm
Great though to come onto the site for some tips. Herbert Proper has won me 200 quid today earlier which I have enthusiastically invested in some Waiting for Godot tickets.
Sunday Times Leader
The deal that made a good bank bad
Between them Sir Victor and Mr Brown have fatally contaminated Lloyds Banking Group
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article5864691.ece
Interesting story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7930229.stm
Given Levy’s connections Blair won’t be long in his envoy role. Is “the one” coming back?
This is a good li9ne.
.
‘Michael Fallon, a Tory member of the Commons Treasury committee, yesterday called it the “most expensive cocktail party in history”’
267 Jonathan, Blair is as much the problem as Brown. His return will not help Labour, it will simply serve to remind everyone of the trouble he was complicit in, and reopen old wounds.
265. Tyson
Going to see “Waiting for Godot” next weekend. Should be fab!
264. I think what Portillo is saying is that basically Browns a busted flush!
263. So it’s armalite and dispatch box, now, then?
269 On the contrary I think he’s actually in a relatively good position both compared to other leaders post Downing St and all other current competitors for the top job. It would certainly mix things up.
Might be worth an outside bet at long odds IMO.
More bad news for Brown
A WHISTLEBLOWER has exposed how Britain’s financial watchdog allowed banks to influence the bonuses and career prospects of its staff.
The Financial Services Authority (FSA), which presided over the banking collapse, gave financial institutions a formal role in determining the pay of the very regulators tasked with overseeing them. The disclosure unmasks the cosy relationships created when Gordon Brown swept away the Bank of England’s supervisory role in 1997, paving the way for the excesses of the credit boom to grow unchallenged.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article5864476.ece
273 ‘Might be worth an outside bet at long odds IMO.’
Already done!
267. Its sweet how you lefties keep hankering after Blair, like a white knight coming to slay the evil Lord Brown and then take to the electoral safety of a fourth term. Trouble is, its not going to happen. Why would Blair come back now, when everythings in sucha mess? I’m sure he and Cherie are sitting back loving every moment of Brown and Labours fall from grace. Blair knows that people will look back on his era as a golden one (both for Labour and the country) of course thats complete nonsense, because all of our problems today stem from the Blair era, but nevertheless, people will always hanker after the good times and that will be enough for Blair. In time he’ll try and get New Labour going again with his (and Mandys) chosen leader, but as far as him ever coming back - Its not going to happen I’m afraid. Life is too sweet for the Blairs now to come back to this dump.
I really hope that moderate Republicans turn on the militant faction, having experienced the benefits of peace for a few years. The last thing we need right now is a return to the Troubles - especially if people with so few people skills as Woodward and Brown are going to be in charge.
275 Good luck. But be sure if Levy is giving interviews, it’s for a a good reason.
272 Latest report appears to confirm military fatalities. Extremely sad - they’ve got enough to deal with already, without atrocities like this.
271. Portillo has come home! He could be a good minister from the Lords and from what i saw of Portillo talking about Mandy some months ago - I see Portillo wanting a reserection!
I got the feeling he saw the IDS inspired retirment as premature!
A bloke with Portillo’s experience as Chief Sec to the Treasury after the last recession would be ideal in a Tory government in 2010 assuming the tories win (I think they will
).
No hankering, just an observation. Disregard it my all means, just found it interesting that’s all. On your point, there must be thousands of reasons that might tempt Blair back.
I hope this is an isolated incident in Antrim but it seems pretty serious
281. Not the money for sure.
282 David, if you read the chatter on the ARSSE website they’ve been expecting trouble for some time.
281.The ‘hankering’ seeps from your posts every time you come up with this err…..’long’ shot - and you bring it up quite a lot.
It’s something of a trade mark of yours.
285 You have me confused with someone else. This is first time I’ve ever mentioned it.
I’m of the view that Blair’s ambition is Euro-Prez but if he thought there was no chance of that then maybe.
286. No Jonathan I think you have expressed a hope/desire that Blair would come back once or twice before.
282 there have been a number of failed attempts over last few months; including a failed car bomb. The leaking of Sir Hugh Orde’s requests for SAS support in investigating “dissident” republicans may well have given impetus to them for some headline grabbing action.
Lets see what Mr Wodward is made off by the Governments response - doubt Gordon has the least idea or has taken any interest in Northern Ireland.
Blair is intelligent enough to know he got out just in time - even if he didn’t realise it at the time.
Blair will not return to political office within the UK. He has done remarkably well to distance himself from the worst aspects of his period in office. However any attempt to return would see a much more thorough examination of his record.
And that would be the end of that.
Peter Hain may indeed be seeking a comeback - but which job has he got his eye on?
http://www.politicshome.com/#6518
288 Blimey, once or twice in two years, that’s one hell of a “trade mark”. Honestly, just saw the Levy intervention and thought “ho hum” and pointed out to my fellow punters. Levy is a significant figure. Read the Peston book.
Of course, I may have said that things would have been different for Labour if Blair had been there, which is a view Mike shares. Not quite the same thing as saying he might pull a Gladstone.
Night all.
289 - Whoever leaked that PSNI request is a tool. A tool who now has blood on his hands. It seems little more than coinicidental that it comes so soon after
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/4953559/Harriet-Harman-less-popular-than-Peter-Mandelson-among-Labour-members.html
Harriet Harman less popular than Peter Mandelson among Labour members
If a poster claimed he saw a pig in the sky just 2 or 3 times a year it would become a trade mark for all the same reasons.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5864530.ece
Doubt this will get traction. But could be a wildcard for the Euros?
Peter Hain: Gordon, you are without a narrative
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/peter-hain-gordon-you-are-without-a-narrative-1639663.html
John Rentoul: Be careful what you wish for, Mr Clegg
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/john-rentoul/john-rentoul-be-careful-what-you-wish-for-mr-clegg-1639665.html
How much longer will Hattie stand for Number 10 seemingly briefing against her, though? Brown has to be careful; Hattie has more democratic legitimacy than he has. She might not be universally popular in the PLP but she’ll have a number of people’s support she can count on. She can be Deputy Leader of the Party without having to be in the cabinet.
If Brown endorses the briefing, and continues to do so, would she ever think that she’d rather get out now and force him out, rather than have her reputation keep being sullied? What I’m getting at, really, is could she do a Howe on steroids? Resign, whinge about Brown and then launch a challenge of her own? Whatever Brown does, she does not have to be loyal to him - the members gave her the Deputy title and it is the members she is ultimately accountable to.
It sounds fanciful - but these things tend to blow up quickly, as 1990 demonstrated. Any time before now I’d have laughed it off - but looking at the stories in the papers tomorrow it does look like someone is out to get Hattie and if I were her I’d be pretty fired up now.
“Obama at least didn’t treat Brown like a lame duck”
By Andrew Rawnsley
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/08/gordon-brown-andrew-rawnsley
Mr Wells on the poll behind the Telegrapgh story:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/
Brown has lost his authority while his government has gone from being simple dysfunctional to having broken down completely.
Darling’s having a row with him next door because he now wants to show showing some humility and and honesty about the figures. Balls is trying to become a more cuddly Red. Dave Miliband is turning into Labour’s Norman Tebbit on the diplomatic front.
Hain is toning down his tan to return to Cabinet. Mandy is simple glowing now he is back in the thick of it, all the intrigue, plotting and power, and that facial did him no end of good.
Wee Dougie is being let out in the garden again while Blears is being kept indoors.
Smith is head of a department, but not in charge of it. Purnell doesn’t know if he wants to be a Blairite, a Tory, Red Labour or even leader. Johnson is so laid back that he is horizontal, I forget he is actually a Cabinet Minister. Cruddas wants to frame the agenda while not being in the picture. And poor old Harriet needs to drop the socialist feminist flag flying and find her inner Thatcher pretty damn quick.
Crisis, what crisis, no wonder the political media have got nothing else to chatter about.
Sky only has 4 front pages:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Sundays-papers—Newspaper-front-pages-Sunday-March-8-2009/Media-Gallery/200903215236859?lpos=UK_News_Left_Promo_Region_0&lid=GALLERY_15236859_Sundays_papers_-_Newspaper_front_pages_Sunday%2C_March_8%2C_2009
299. This bit rather goes against what Mike thought.
‘He told me last week that, if neither Labour nor the Conservatives won a clear mandate, the Lib Dems would not seek to decide between them. “I don’t think we’re going to be playing eeny-meeny-miny-moe in British politics,” he said. He would look first to work with whichever party won more seats.’
What even if the Tories win more votes? This very article speculates the Tories might need to be up to 10 points ahead to win.
Clegg must have realised that this proposition could see him propping up a Labour Govt massively behind on the popular vote because of the vagaries of the electoral system.
There are so many situations where it’s possible to see the uneasy coalition break up.
“Gordon Brown must apologise, and quickly”
By Matthew d’Ancona
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/matthewd_ancona/4953437/Gordon-Brown-must-apologise-and-quickly.html
302. Brown has the support of 77% of the membership!! Astonishing, if that’s accurate then surely he’s there for the election.
Back on Lloyds, 70000 employees have seen their share options and savings destroyed by Brown and his 2 mates. Surely virtually all of their votes are lost!
303 good post especially the third para.
308.Thanks SallyC, I didn’t mention the others because they really seem to have disappeared off the radar completely.
I maybe should have added the Ed,Edd&Eddy of Labour politics right now, Campbell, Prescott and Draper.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/article5864847.ece
And where exactly is the money for this coming from?
@310 (Oracle)
Presumably a deployment of average speed cameras will pay for itself quite quickly.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1160311/You-guys-just-dont–How-Brown-blew-30-000-feet.html
Is Dacre still in control of the Mail? The picture of Brown and Obama is another cracker isn’t it!
307 Not surprising - activists are always the most loyal ones; there are few who will do a HenryG and stand up and protest.
The Thatcher Archive on BBCi has interviews with Conservative Party supporters during the 1975 leadership election. A young Christopher Gent says that he can’t choose between the contenders, basically because they are all weak and Edward Heath, just defeated in Round 1, was still his preferred leader, That was the view of plenty of Conservative Party members who couldn’t see why the MPs had kicked out Ted and wanted their voice heard in future.
301.Andrew Rawnsley gives Brown’s trip to America a make over.
306.Poor article from D’Ancona, I nearly lost the will to carry on reading by the end.
Ho ho ho,
“the Americans presented the prime minister with what smelt like a panic buy, a DVD collection of 25 American movies. Amazon will sell you a box set of 100 Hollywood classics for $17.99.”
Oh well at least Gordo probably doesn’t have to worry about import duty and declaring the present!
To the prime minister’s great relief and large satisfaction, Barack Obama did not treat him as a lame-duck leader. That should help to convince the rest of the G20 not to view him like that either. Maybe, just maybe, so he has to hope, it might even persuade Britain not to write him off just yet.
Didn’t exactly come across that way from where I was sitting. Couldn’t be arsed to do a press conference, sent Gordo round the side entrance to be met by a lacky, no flags, no red carpet, said bu##er all about personal greatness of Gordo in the press spray (just lots of stuff about US / UK special relationship), couldn’t cancel the Boy Scouts of America, gave him a c##p gift….
312.Oracle, I could be wrong, but IIRC, the MoS broke the convention on off the record discussions between the press and Brown in-flight the last time he went to America.
317 - Some pretty damning stuff in there and an interesting insight into the mind of our great leader.
‘What is it you think I should be apologising for?’ he demanded. ‘I have nothing to apologise for. You guys just don’t get it do you?’
When one reporter asked why he had let banks get out of control, Mr Brown leaned towards him and said: ‘You’re saying I got it wrong? But I didn’t. The same problems have happened all over the world and our regulations have been better than anyone else’s.
‘Get in the real world. People are saying it is my fault and that I caused the recession. They are wrong. It is not my fault.
‘It did not start in Britain, it started in America. We have had low interest rates and low inflation. Every other recession in Britain has been created by high interest rates and high inflation. That has not happened under me.’
312 Scary thing in that article is that it proves Brown doesn’t understand the causes or mistakes that led to this recession - not his fault because inflation rate & interest rates were low? but those were BoE responsibilities, the Treasury should have been taking the holistic view. Should have spent less time interfering in other departments and more time managing the economy.
Not his fault that regulation wasn’t up to the task - because “he didn’t know”. He should have, that was his job. Canada, Australia & Spain don’t have broke banks. No other country has put nearly 20% of its GDP into propping up two and half banks (well Iceland probably worse but its an island with population about that of Bournemouth)
House price bubble “because of supply”? there’s less supply now and no bubble. Has the market been swamped with oversupply?
Please Harriet, lead a coup, your country needs you.
They (him and Prescott) keep going on about the low interest rates like they don’t realise that’s a huge part of what’s gone wrong.
318.‘It did not start in Britain, it started in America. We have had low interest rates and low inflation. Every other recession in Britain has been created by high interest rates and high inflation. That has not happened under me.’
And that is the problem, he really thought that he had ended boom and bust because *he* was in control of the fiscal levers, and able to move them at will to suit his needs politically for so long. He kept interest rates pegged to an illusionary inflation rate.
318 (cont) anybody who says they never have anything to apologise for has serious issues.
I make mistakes every single day of my life, its called being human! But I learn from them, I make adjusts and I move on.
All the moron has to say is something along the lines of Darling early on and he would have been fine. Even as somebody who can’t stand Gordo, I don’t blame him for all the s##t that has hit the fan.
320.(Meant to add) Obviously Prescott doesn’t realise it but McDoom saying it is weird.
312. I just hope that isn’t true because if it is, it proves Brown is actually mentally ill. Denial and rewriting history on that sort of scale is dangerous and worrying that we have 14 more months of this.
Davis Cup tennis for tomorrow….
Stepanek to beat Simon, 2.06 at SBO: Better form, better indoors record recently. A serve/volley style troubles Simon on fast courts (losses to Ancic, Mahut, LLodra) - his main weapon on hard court outdoors is his returning ability, but it largely disappears indoors, only breaking 20% of the time. Stepanek also has the home crowd, and he’ll just love to draw energy from them.
Nadal to beat Djokovic 3-0, 1.8 at paddypower: Djokovic lost 3-0 to Ferrer in the first leg, playing horribly, and essentially handing the tie to Spain. In 5 clay meetings, he’s taken one set off Nadal, who himself warmed up by annihilating Tipsarevic 6-1 6-0 6-2. Djokovic without motivation is not a pleasant sight, whereas Nadal doesn’t know anything less than 100% effort.
Sela to beat Johansson, 1.73 at various places: Johansson is past it, but returned after a nasty injury to beat the (rubbish) Harold Levy in 5 long sets. Johansson won the only way he can nowadays: serving 26 aces, and returning poorly. Afterwards he said he was utterly knackered, and was packed off in ice quickly. Unfortunately for him, Sela is 10 years younger, in good form, and an excellent returner.
319. Its a sad state of affairs when the Churchill/Arthur figure asleep on Avalon is Harriet Harman.
321.But most damning, he could have used those fiscal levers to reign in the credit boom back in 2003/4, but he didn’t because there was a GE to be won and a promotion that he thought was his by right.
The article doesn’t exactly paint the journos in a particularly good light, cowardly (and I don’t believe it was just the Guardian, I bet a load of them behaved the same way) and asking p##s poor questions.
Imagine if “Ken” from PB got a chance to “have it out” with Gordo. The Great one’s tractor stats would be no match for the boy “Ken”.
326.What was it that Cabinet Minister was quoted as saying off the record recently….
328. Up close and angry I think McDoom is probably quite intimidating.
328.Oracle, that article tells us nothing we didn’t already know about our political lobby.
330 - What’s he going to do, hit me? Other than he would probably miss, that’s exactly what I would want, tilted, anger and out of control. Imagine the c##p he would come out with if he totally lost it.
So is it the case that Barak Obama is another terrorist hugger?
332. Sure, if I was someone like Bradby I’d do it deliberately precisely to get him to explode, but most people aren’t used to violence and scare easy — human nature.
Does anyone actually want an apology ? If a newly installed HH as PM did a big mea culpa in her first big interview would it make a difference ?
We know she’d ditch the Royal Mail privatisation and cancel heathrow 3 but is that enough for a bounce ?
She might get a very British ” Give her a chance” bounce but i can’t see it lasting more than a few weeks.
And once in is she really going to disolve straight away ?
Once your feet are under the table won’t she want to give the thing a go till 1/5/10 anyway?
What would removing Gordon actually achieve ?
334 - Maybe Gordo was right about one thing then, the journos should
“Get in the real world.”
326. I wish King Arthur did come back, he would give westminster such a true ‘british’ ar*se kicking. He is said to be sleeping in a hill with seven knights across the valley from me in a hill. I’ll wake him up soon at this rate but hes the one keeping me up with all the spinning in his Grave!!
317.”312.Oracle, I could be wrong, but IIRC, the MoS broke the convention on off the record discussions between the press and Brown in-flight the last time he went to America.”
Oops, I think they get away with being able to do this because they are not actually on the plane.
Nite all.
337. Paul Johnstone in the Spectator wants dear old Liz to end her reign with a “last act of courage” and dismiss the government and disolve Parliament!
Maybe we don’t need arthur. We need Gough Whitlam !
338 - LEAK, LEAK, LEAK, quick get the rozzas to raid the office of MoS, drag Dacre away for questioning!
335. My view is eventually McDoom is going to be so personally toxic that he’ll single handedly drag ZNL below 200 seats. I might be totally wrong of course but I don’t think his unpopularity has anywhere near peaked.
From the ‘Daily Mash’ - home of serious political journalism
‘MERVYN KING UNVEILS RADICAL PLAN TO F*** BRITAIN INTO MIDDLE OF NEXT WEEK’
‘BANK of England governor Mervyn King last night unveiled his latest radical plan to take Britain and f*** it squarely into the middle of next week.
‘Carrying money has never been so much fun Mr King and chancellor Alistair Darling agreed to increase the money supply after noticing how Britain was still not quite similar enough to Germany in 1932, or Zimbabwe this morning.
‘Mr King said: “Once we’ve laid the groundwork for hyper-inflation everything else should fall into place including the emergence of a strong, insane dictator, a nice new motorway network and our eventual annihilation.”
‘Later today the government will release details of a scheme where people can hand in their wallets and purses in exchange for a shiny, new wheelbarrow to carry their money around in.
‘Across the country retailers are expected to soon begin pricing goods in wheelbarrows instead of pounds and pence. Newsagent WH Smith confirmed it will charge three and a half wheelbarrows for a can of Diet Fanta and a packet of Quavers.
‘Meanwhile economists are at odds over the new policy with some claiming it is pronounced ‘quan-ti-ta-tive’ while others have opted for the shorter, lazier ‘quan-ta-tive’.
‘Dr Tom Booker, from Reading University, said: “It’s the ‘easing’ bit that fascinates me. It makes it sound as if you’re lowering yourself gently into a warm, soothing bath when in actual fact it’s more like jumping head first into a swimming pool filled with spiders and glass.”
‘He added: “What I’m particularly looking forward to is taking some news footage from this year and showing it in black and white alongside some film from Germany in the early Thirties to see if anyone can spot the difference.
“It’ll be an amusing little game we can play when we’re not murdering each other for a sausage roll.”‘
328 Bradby still asked the question, on air, despite Gordon’s attempt to frighten them off - more courage than Nick Robinson. Maybe the NoW should start sending Fraser and Telegraph Jeff Randall. There would be fireworks then.
Shows though how useful getting all the key political reporters into the bubble of foreign trips is. Like at party conferences they cannot help but start to accept the alternative reality that surrounds them.
Yeah, Bradby’s good. Randall vs McDoom would be a bloodbath.
344 - If Brown wasn’t so flawed he could actually use it to his advantage, rather than making them go home crying to their mummies. Can only imagine the positive press Blair managed to drum up explicitly down because of buttering up even hostile hacks on trips like this.
This is a sensational extract from an articles in the Times today :
Times - Lloyds primed for slump
‘Yesterday Daniels [Head of Lloyds] remained defiant that the HBOS takeover was a good deal. He said: “I am absolutely confident that this will turn out to be a very good acquisition. We did it at the right time in the cycle. When you buy on the upside you pay a hefty premium and if you buy in a down period you (by and large) can get something for a very good value”.
These remarks incensed investors who blame Lloyds for walking blindfolded into the takeover of HBOS without doing due diligence.
David Peters, 62, a semi-retired chartered accountant from Milton Keynes, said: “Our lifetime savings were invested in Lloyds and RBS. We had about £500,000 invested, including a £100,000 inheritance from my wife’s mother, and were taking out about £25,000 a year in dividends.
“Our savings are now worth £20,000. We’ve written off any dividends for the next two years.”
In other words this poor couple have lost everything. These are a typical example of millions of victims of Brown & Labour incompetence.
That Brown can’t even say sorry is a slap in the face.
Even worse, many people think they are OK, but do not realise that have lost most of the money in their pensions as well. Many pensions have actually collapsed, with the losses being concealed or underplayed by the pension managers. E.g. billions of pounds of UK pension money was invested with Madoff in the US, and equivalent Ponzi Schemes - this must be 100% written-off.
Of course a billion pounds soon won’t even buy you a Starbucks latte.