YouGov EU poll: It’s a three-way tie for second place
May 15th, 2009
Should you take the 6/4 that the LDs will beat Labour?
As I suggested in the previous thread there was some uncertainty about the Sun’s YouGov figures for the EU elections because of different numbers in the article and in the chart.
I’ve now got clarification from the firm’s Peter Kelner who writes: “The Sun graphic shows all naming a party; the text shows “certain to votes”. (Lib dems are also on 19% - so three-way tie for 2nd place!)”.
So taking the "certains" in the poll we have: CON 28%: LAB 19%: LD 19%: UKIP 19%: GRN 6%: BNP 3%
Wow.
A good bet might be the 6/4 that you can get that the Lib Dems getting more votes than Labour. UPDATE - this is now 5/4.
Mike Smithson
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First? Three way tie for second, hmm if that were replicated I wonder if Labour would find itself marginally at the bottom of the heap.
In other news, Nokia are reporting that due to an inexplicable spike in demand from the London market they are bringing three mothballed factories back on line.
In answer to the question - Yes!
Labour DOOMED. That previous bet of Labour > UKIP isn’t looking so good now…Evens on a three horse race when your horse is flagging to say the least?
I know its dangerous to do, but if you add UKIP to the Tory figure to get a predicted Tory General election result, Labour are in meltdown.
4 - doomed this year. Always was Labour flopping in the Euro / counties…
but what about the GE? UKIP 19%? Pah!
Wow indeed. Dan Hannan was speculating on his blog last night that Labour might come FOURTH (let alone THIRD), and FIFTH in the southeast. Or so his canvass returns were telling him.
I was unsure at the time, but now…
If they do come fourth Brown would be challenged. I reckon he would be challenged if they came third.
FPT:
Yawn, OK tim.
Even if we accept that the average MP gains nothing personal from his allowances and tax breaks and first class travel and home expenses and massage chairs and DVD players and security patrols and moat cleaning, he is still on £64k.
A headteacher earns about £72k: so MING is STILL wrong, £72k does not “far outreach” £63k, unless Ming’s definition of “far outreach” is so flexible as to include the sense: “actually quite close”.
And, of course, to exclude all the enormous benefits of the expenses and allowances regime of our MPs is just fatuous - as has been so amply proven this last week: this is a major chunk of their salary. That’s how they see it - and justify it - why should we differ?
AND I’m not even mentioning the other £100,000 exes that MPs charge, or their communications allowance, or their outside earnings….
Give it up, tim. This is a losing battle
As requested in the previous thread……shadsy,give us a ‘4cast’.
Name the first four Parties in order of polling.
Example.
CON-LAB-LD-UKIP.
Labour have plummeted on the Line Betting market. Con have slipped back one seat.
It is rare to see such a big shift in a single 24 hr period.
Betfair - Party Seats Line
Con 353 - 357
Lab 207.5 - 212 (yesterday: 214 - 216)
LD 51 - 53.5
SNP 13.5 - 14.5
PC 4 - 4.5
DUP 5.5 - 7.5
The issue with Malik is not the expenses but the apparently subsidised rent, which he should have reported.
The “we’re back to 2-party politics” crowd have gone quiet all of a sudden.
10 - Exactly.
Don’t ever give up,tim.You are dealing with a misbegotten Cornish inbred(he confirms this himself) with a huge talent for publicising his book.
Me too ,SeanT !
Sadly he has numerous accretions on this sadly warped forum.
12: So much for the ‘Brown taking action’ Tim?
Assuming that the other parties remain the same plugging those figures into my calculator gives
C 23 (-4)
Lab 15 (-4)
UKIP 14 (+2)
LD 13 (+1)
SNP 3 (+1)
PC 1 (nc)
Green 0 (-2)
10, 12
Don’t f***ing agree with me !!!
12 So tim, you consider claiming for a massage chair, iPod and Home Cinema system perfectly acceptable. Tell me, in what way are these items necessary to enable an MP to carry out his or her duties on behalf of their constituents?
16 - But you were right.
The myopic herd boys couldn’t see it.
I think the Euro’s will end up as
Con 36%
Lib Dem 20%
UKIP 18%
lAB 16%
Others 10%
The latest result ranks Parliament at the bottom of the PoliticsHome Institution Tracker, falling below tabloid newspapers for the first time:
1. NHS rating = +18
2. Broadsheet newspapers rating = +16
3. BBC rating = +7
6. National Assembly of Wales rating = -21
8. Scottish Parliament rating = -25
9. Church of England rating = -30
10. London’s hosting of the 2012 Olympics rating = -34
12. EU rating = -46
14. Westminster parliament rating = -61
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/public_impression_of_parliament_slumps_to_new_recorded_low.html
So, Westminster is now more unpopular than the EU?!? That is actually one hell of an achievement. Well done Gogsie.
The SNP wishes to abolish one level of government. Fortunately for us, it is the least popular level of government: Westminster.
17 - Don’t think they are.
Neither is putting your kids up at the Garrick.
Has Gove resigned
Name the speaker:
“It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this
place, which you have dishonoured by your contempt of all virtue, and
defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and
enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches,
and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like
Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.
“Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice
you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is
your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience for bribes?
Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the
Commonwealth?
“Ye sordid prostitutes, have you not defil’d this sacred place, and
turn’d the Lord’s temple into a den of thieves by your immoral
principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to
the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get
grievances redress’d; your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse
the Augean Stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous
proceedings, and which by God’s help and the strength He has given me,
I now come to do.
“I command ye, therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart
immediately out of this place! Take away that shining bauble there,
and lock up the doors. You have sat here too long for the good you do.
In the name of God, go!”
15 If the Green Party end up losing both seats that will be a very bad result and a big blow to the party, especially in the current climate (no pun intended!). Surely there will be a big enough Lab to Green swing so that they hold their seats, and maybe even make gains?
Watching Malik’s SkyNews Blood-Eagling.
He actually does OK until you get to the massage chair….
7 Was noticeable that Beckett was still smarting from not getting a pay rise in 1983 and Ming from pay increases stalled by Major. In Beckett’s case she seemed unaware that for most people under 40 what happened 26 years ago was back in realms of history. Echoes of long ago Trade Union claims demanding parity.
Ming also did not give up practising law, IIRC he did while leader but resumed after being ejected and is practising currently. He gets over £15,000 as a company director and got £40,000 last year for his book and TV appearances so earned double his basic salary in 2008/9.
17.
I think he needed the massage chair after a very stressfull day with Brown. I think we should let him have that out of sympathy !
22 SP.Wasn’t it a Backbencher in the Major administration 1992-1997 ?
Another day, BNP vote collapsing again , down 2% on 2004
22 - Oliver Cromwell speech to the Rump Parliament in 1653.
17. Maybe he listens to the iPod during debates then wanders into the lobby humming to himself.
(But it’s a very odd thing to claim for. It’s a personal accessory, more or less equivalent to claiming for jewellery.)
James B: yes, correct
Frank Field publishes his expenses online:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5328989/MPs-expenses-Frank-Field-publishes-details-of-claims-on-website.html
What the Telegraph does not tell you in the fervour for sensationalism is that Field has claimed far less than most.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/frank_field/birkenhead#expenses
28 - BNP polling results have to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. To say they are “shy” in many cases is rather underselling it.
21 You don’t seem to suggest that at post 12, agreeing that the issue with Malik is not the expenses but the apparently subsidised rent.
‘Has Gove resigned’
You profess to having the inside track on the minds and strategy decisions of leading Tories. Why don’t you tell me?
27 :ROFL:
[22] Simon Heffer?
34 - A preferential rent agreement is against the ministerial code as it wasn’t declared.
Automatic suspension.
And no, Cameron will not discipline Gove for putting his kids up at the Garrick.
29.
James,
OT but that poll was a bit unexpected last night do you know what else we are about to receive ?
What do you think the turnout for the Euro elections will be?
32. I know it’s been said before, but Frank Field for Speaker!!
I can’t think of a worthier occupant. Slightly manic, notably honest, an articulate and principled parliamentarian. Perfect.
37: So your claim on the previous thread that ‘Brown has taken action’ is well…wrong then…
38 - I have no inside knowledge, but am gratified you think I might!
39.
Last time (2004) it was 38%. This year probably will be no higher than 40%. There may well be greater enthusiasm for the fringe this time.
Some bloke from the Taxpayers Alliance is on Sky and says they’ve teamed up with the Daily Mail to pursue the possibility of private prosecutions of MPs.
Seems to have worked out the process as well. Holy moley.
39.
45-50%
43 - Tend to agree.
40. Seant. Certainly Field has far more principles than most. The question is does he want it?
37 ‘And no, Cameron will not discipline Gove for putting his kids up at the Garrick.’
Have you been looking into the crystal ball in Gypsy Rose Becketts caravan again timmy? Naughty boy, Margaret will give you a good telling off.
Final point before I finally start work:
Those who were claiming that the Telegraph’s revelations last night were “disappointing” (and I was amongst them) owe the paper an apology.
Last night’s front page has produced the first ministerial resignation. In that sense it was the most sensational of the lot.
I have cancelled my bet on Labour doing better than UKIP at 6/5. I’ve backed UKIP at 9/4 and the draw at 7/2. Net effect essentially neutral but funds tied up.
Those of you holding 7/4 vouchers on Labour might want to consider banking a small profit?
The media narrative now is almost certainly going to be that if Labour sinks to fourth place then Brown will come under huge pressure to stand down.
45 - I’ll give you odds of 4/1 that the turnout will be less than 44%
49: He hasn’t resigned though. He stepped down for an ‘investigation’ and hopes to be coming back.
44. I hope they go for Straw first.
“Accountancy is not my strong suit”.
Aw shucks, Jack, keep the money! - you old non-accountant you.
Grrrr.
52. OK - last night’s front page forced, for the first time, a serving minister to step down.
Better?
How long will Menzies Campbell remain in the running for Speaker after his car-crash performance yesterday?
William Hill - Who Will Be The Next Permanent Speaker Of The House Of Commons?
Alan Haselhurst EVS
Menzies Campbell 2/1
Richard Shepherd 10/1
Patrick Cormack 10/1
Michael Lord 12/1
John Heppell 16/1
Roger Gale 16/1
Tommy McAvoy 20/1
David Evennett 33/1
John Butterfill 33/1
Joe Benton 50/1
Brian Donohoe 50/1
Andrew Miller 50/1
Edward O’Hara 50/1
Jimmy Hood 50/1
Harry Cohen 50/1
Michael Connarty 50/1
Clive Betts 50/1
Bruce George 50/1
David Clelland 50/1
Richard Ottaway 50/1
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/EN/betting/e/33265/Who-Will-Be-The-Next-Permanent-Speaker-Of-The-House-Of-Commons%3F.html
If we exclude Grampa Campbell (and the other Scottish Raj numpties: McAvoy (guffaw), Donohoe (eek) and Michael “Lord-Preserve-Us” Connarty), do any of the other candidates start looking like good value?
51 tim.I give you odds of ten to one that Wayne doesn’t even know what you mean and 20-1 that he doesn’t take your bet(small stakes obviously).
Sometimes I think you don’t realise the low calibre of the opposition and that includes SeanT.
22. Ant (or was it Dec?) in IACGMOOH.
53. it worked for Ken Dodd…
44. I think that they are going to have problems as most MPs have openly declared their arrangements to the Fees office and the Fees office have approved them. Certainly Morley has got problems but I find it difficult to see how they can pursue other prosecutions without the Fees Office support unless they can prove some sort of conspiracy by the Fees Office and ultimately the Speaker.
Yes it is an outrage but it is ‘within the rules’.
51.
F4CK OFF AND CLEAN YOUR BEDSIT !
50 - I did last night as our host said he was doing this morning and not taking the odds on a tie (yet). I’m 7/4 on Labour and 9/4 on UKIP. If the odds on a tie lengthen, as they might well if one or the other clearly pulls away, I might invest then.
56.
Does URW stand for U R a W$nker ?
Just saw Malik’s ‘defence’ on BBC News website.
Seemed to go along the lines of:
1. I didn’t claim for moats or manure or helipads or country houses or any of the things these nasty rich Tories do, they’re the ones abusing the system, not me.
2. I live in Dewsbury, look at me, I’m a man of the people.
3. The Green Book wasn’t clear, they told me there wasn’t a limit so I went overboard and then afterwards they told me there was a limit. Evil, evil fees office people!
So… err…
1. A massage chair is a good Old Labour working-class-man-of-the people-necessary-accessory, is it, Mr Malik? The fact he is trying to distinguish Labour from Tories on this clearly shows he’s living in Classwarland, like all the Labourites seem to be doing nowadays.
2. Errm… so what? You live in Dewsbury? Good for you! Still doesn’t stop you claiming for ridiculous things.
3. Surely his own MORALS should have stopped him from maxing things out? When told there wasn’t a limit he should have thought “that’s absurd, I’ll keep my costs down and be fair to taxpayers and my constituents, that’s the proper public service attitude to take.” NOT “Oh goody, let’s fleece them for all they’re worth.” Typical NuLab. It’s never their fault. It’s always the evil Tories/civil servants/people in the fees office who are FORCING them to submit huge expense bills.
This shower is so embarrasing.
by-election in Scunthorpe?
http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/news/Exclusive-MP-Morley-resign/article-996294-detail/article.html
56 - I suspect you’re right so no bet.
Since Sean blamed the Hillsborough protests on a bathplug, I’ve had a better idea of his calibre.
Only recently have I read that its his dads fault, and Sean is blameless so I do have a little sympathy.
As I would for the offspring of Bucks Fizz or Kajagoogoo in their musical careers for instance.
59. Getting prosecutions is less important than seeing these people in court having to defend and explain their dubious actions.
And some MPs have a clear case to answer: Morley, Straw, &c.
55. I think Michael Lord is good value.
55 I can’t understand why Frank Field isn’t on the list. Does anybody know?
63. Interesting that Scunthorpe is a few miles down the road from Grimsby (the venue of last night’s QT).
62.Wayne.Congrats ! At least you got the $ sign right.
Excellent going for a half-wit.
59. Yes - I suspect this is 99% bluster, and mostly aimed at trying to get the boys in blue (red?) to actually investigate the 1-2 cases where behaviour looks to have shaded into criminality…
59
Well I’ve got bad news for those MPs. Having a fraudulent activity ‘approved’ is no defence in law. The only defence available to, eg, Morley, is that his claim was a genuine error on his part. The burden will be on him to prove this.
63 - Mark Field MP thinks so.
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/mark_field_parliament_is_paralysed_with_inward_thinking.html
Imagine-A Scotch “speaker” who CANNOT SPEAK!!”(nor speak more than 2 words to make a coherent sentence!)
You couldn’t make this up!!
Hahahahahahaha!
Speaker Field would be to Labour High Command’s advantage.
It nullifies, in an instant, a troublesome backbench voice.
They don’t seem to like Eliot Morley in the Scunthorpe papers, do they?
tim!
Is that you -
http://www.lussoluxury.com/images/uploads/104062006171348.jpg
I can see in this photo, under the awning:
http://ontheroad.buy.co.uk/files/2008/10/caravan-jons-pics-flickr.jpg
Having a relaxing cupasoup, after you just boffed:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/Rcbn18TtMeI/AAAAAAAABBU/LDDZ1GzNgWk/s320/Beckett.jpg
???
68 - More interesting is that four of the first five letters of the constituency name would probably be applied by Constituents to their MP at the moment.
74 bono publico.I’ll risk a ‘Roger moment’ here and state that there is no chance of FF becoming next Speaker.
The Tory candidate in Scunthorpe is a Paediatrician.
that will confuse some disgusted News of the World readers.
77
Nicely, but politely put James.
Are we at the end of the expense stories, or are there more to come?
71 - You’re wrong there. Fraud requires a deception. If you were truthful with the Fees Office and they approved it as the body empowered to approve it, you are basically in the clear in criminal terms if not political ones. So being “approved” is basically a defence. Morley is potentially a very different case as the Fees Office were not aware of the true position, whether deliberately on the part of Morley or not.
55 - How the hell are George Young and Andrew McKinley not on that list?
Michael Lord looks good value - my favourite on the list being Richard Shepherd: apparently the only man to have an EDM defeated by a three-line whip by his own party. Big Civil Liberties champion too.
76.
78 - I agree. Are there any odds on Alan Beith?
79 - Tim
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tory Candidate in Scunthorpe will be an MP in a year or so!
81. One more day to come, they say. Hopefully the grand and spectacular finale.
It has to be a Cabinet Minister or party bigwig to round it all off. But who’s left?
Purnell? Hain? Who?
77
A masterpiece of dry understatement.
76 - He’s double dipped on the eyebrows and she’s got none.
65. I don’t disagree that they should be held to account but I don’t think court is the place for that. Personally, I believe there should be a full blown public inquiry much like a senate hearing where each is dragged up and made to explain themselves.
The thing is that it would drag on for months because I doubt if any, other than those who don’t claim ACA, is totally clean.
IMO the ones who should be up in court are Martin and the senior members of the HoC authorities. He oversaw the Fees Office and it is they who allowed all these payments. Over five years that equates to something in the region of £65 million just on ACA. My instinct is that if they had been doing their jobs properly they could probably have saved 20-30% of what was paid out and also saved Parliament from this disgraceful debacle. There is no question in my mind that at best they have been derelict in their duties.
If it is a Tory, I think Michael Fallon would make a good speaker.
.
.
Blue Rog [67]: I could be ruder but perhaps because Frank Field comes across as slightly sanctimonious.
89. “He”?? This is You. Admit it.
Oliver Walston.
And here you are, boasting about your CAP subsidies, again:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/mar/24/ruralaffairs.freedomofinformation
Iain Dale highlights voodoo poll from Daily Politics
“Just received from the Daily Politics…
“About two thirds of British people believe Gordon Brown should call a General Election as early as possible, according to an Opinion Poll conducted for BBC2’s Daily Politics programme, to be broadcast today at 12:00pm.When asked in the poll if they thought Gordon Brown should call a General Election at the earliest possible opportunity, 65% agreed, compared with 33% who disagreed.
The poll also asked whether MPs named and shamed in the newspapers over their expense claims should be forced to stand down from Parliament. Again about two thirds (64%) agreed, compared with 34% who disagreed. People polled from the lower social group, DE, are more critical of MPs than people from the higher social group, AB. 73% of social class DE said in our poll that MPs named and shamed in the newspapers over their expense claims should be forced to stand down from Parliament compared with 51% from social class AB.
And on the possible effect on turnout, 28% of those polled said they were less likely to vote in the forthcoming European Elections because of the revelations about MPs’ expenses. However, 25% said they were more likely to vote. 47% said it would make no difference.”
87. “Who”?!?! - Don’t say he is claiming second home allowance for the Tardis!!!
In theory, the Tories look fairly well placed for a by-election in Morley’s seat. But I wonder whether an independent Mr (or Ms) Clean candidate would in fact be found if it came to it?
71 Looking at Field’s claims I note that every month when and MP puts the claim in he/she signs the declaration that the expense was wholly incurred to do his/her job.
As with any other fraudulent claim its the claimant that has full responsibility - irrespective of whether its intended fraud, forgetfulness, poor accountancy or misunderstanding. The CPS may choose not to prosecute where there has been restitution, and that is likely in most if not all cases. It’ll come back to HoC, to Brown, Cameron & Clegg what punishment or discipline is.
96. Perhaps Labour won’t even contest it and instead put up a sock puppet masquerading as a ‘clean’ candidate…
92 - Isn’t that oneof the requirements of being Speaker?
96 I think the voters of Scunthorpe would go for a local ‘Man in the White Suit’, hell maybe even a Gorilla suit the way things stand.
91 - Fallon cannot do his job on a committee, never mind be speaker.
Michael Fallon, deputy chairman of the Treasury Select Committee, failed to attend the meeting that approved today’s blistering report on bank failures because of his City connections.
Fallon, 57 yesterday, chairs the remuneration committee of City broking firm Tullett Prebon, at the centre of a storm this week over pay and bonuses for the firm’s chief executive Terry Smith. Fallon received £45,000 last year for his part-time role.
During the Treasury committee meetings, he launched fierce attacks on Lord Myners for the Labour peer’s role in approving a £703,000-a-year pension for ousted RBS chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin.
But as a director of Tullett Prebon, Fallon rubber-stamped a deal for Smith, chief executive at the firm, which is one of the world’s largest inter-dealer broking groups.
Smith’s package last year is worth £4.65million
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1181834/Fallon-accused-conflict-City-connections.html
96 - James
In the famous Battle of Knutsford Heath in the 1997 Election the Labour and Lib Dem Candidates were both withdrawn, thus ensuring Martin Bell won against Neil Hamilton.
It could happen in Scunthorpe, or a number of other Constituencies. I wonder what the Telegraph still have up their sleeves!!
90. We could have a Royal Commission, but I guess that could take a ridiculously long time..
96. Could we see the reappearance of Martin Bell?
Any chance of someone telling me the odds for the SNP at all please? Thanking you in advance.
102. Yes, speaking of sockpuppets…ding dong
104 - Please God, no!
104 jsfl
BBC News 24 had a local businessman (surname Maws?) who is standing as an anti-sleaze independent against Morley.
FREE MONEY
The BNP are 4/9 to win a seat with Ladbrokes and 10/3 not to win a seat with William Hill. Put three times the stake on with Ladbrokes as with William Hill for guaranteed happiness.
O/T. Funny how they start to listen now we’ve made them flinch
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8051953.stm
104. I think what Martin Bell did in Tatton was good for politics and well done to him, but please God, let’s not have him going all pious and holier-than-thou on us again. His appeal lay in the fact he wasn’t a professional politician. I suggest if an independent stand in any seat re expenses, they should be someone different to Bell.
So taking the “certains” in the poll we have: CON 28%: LAB 19%: LD 19%: UKIP 19%: GRN 6%: BNP 3%
I have no proof, and I may be completely off track, but the figures cited above, SMELL to me.
Peter Kelner seems to be leading you by the nose on this, Mike.
Peter Kelner a well known Labour supporter has thrown moondust,( Or is it shit?) in PB’s eyes.
103. Indeed and in many ways that would be the appropriate way to handle it. The trouble is as you say it would take a year or more and cost a fortune. It would also do likely far more damage to our political system.
I do wonder whether the best approach would be to make all MPs pay back 20% of their ACA for the last 5 years, investigate any clear fiddling, and then get on with reforming the system to ensure that it does not happen again.
I don’t know if this has already been pointed out, but this poll gives an *absolute* majority for eurosceptic parties - all of which wish to repatriate powers to the UK to varying degrees.
I really, really *hate* lumping the BNP in with my own party but, since it’s position is declared to be eurosceptic, it is relevant:
CON 28% + UKIP 19% (+ BNP 4%) = 51%
There is no other European country in the EU that comes CLOSE to this. For Britain to have an absolute majority of its population voting for openly eurosceptic parties is one hell of blow to the ruling european elites. And this fails to take account any eurosceptics who vote Lib Dem and Labour - of which there are many - particularly in Southwest England.
Phenomenal figures and a clear democratic mandate against “ever closer union”.
The media reaction to Cooper/Balls is not so bad they seem to have got off lightly
I’m willing to stand in Peterborough against Stewart Jackson on behalf of this websites campaign against troughing, rudeness, and ignorance.
PBers for Peterborough
105. The SNP would not accept the Speakership of the Westminster parliament on principle.
108. Wibbler. Thanks I wasn’t aware of that.
116 - Quick, Nurse, my irony gland has exploded….
78
Oh well…
activists gouge a £ sign into Alan Duncan’s lawn…
116. ROFLMAO. I didn’t realise you were a comedian…….
121 - At least they didn’t gouge a £ sign into Alan Duncan….
121 - I just choked on my tea there.
…and a clear democratic mandate against “ever closer union”.
…which will be ignored
121 - The Anti Euro Wing of the Rutland for the Rutters Party.
Scunthorpe notional 2005 result:
Labour: 17822 (51.8%)
Conservative: 9312 (27.1%)
Liberal Democrat: 5842 (17%)
Other: 1404 (4.1%)
Majority: 8510 (24.8%)
Seems a bit of a big ask for the Tories to get that one against LibDem “It’s a three-horse race” barcharts. If the Tories and LibDems ganged up on Labour Martin-Bell-style you could see them taking the seat, but it’s hard to see them doing that unless Labour decides to nominate Neil Hamilton as Morley’s replacement…
123 - I think that he would prefer to be gouged with the currency of Vietnam.
127. I seem to recall a few Lib Dems claiming something similar re. Crewe & Nantwich…
94 - Re BBC poll.
This could be interesting:
“People polled from the lower social group, DE, are more critical of MPs than people from the higher social group, AB. 73% of social class DE said in our poll that MPs named and shamed in the newspapers over their expense claims should be forced to stand down from Parliament compared with 51% from social class AB.”
At the risk of unfairly generalising, would I be correct in saying that Labour tend to draw a higher proportion of support from DE than AB?
Could be hugely significant if so.
The Rulebook:
I was only obeying orders, mein hier. Ya, we cant go against the Rulebook.
121, 126. OMG. This is getting out of hand. Next there will be lynchin’s.
Look what this crazed and angry mob did to Alan Duncan’s garden. JUST LOOK AT HIS GARDEN:
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/MP-s-anger-garden-stunt/article-995154-detail/article.html
That £ sign viciously carved into his lawn must be seventeen inches long. And look at the flowers they have brutally planted!! Are they petunias??
This is hysterical mob justice. Winnie Mandela, eat rubber.
121 Presumably, if they were pro European, they would have gouged a € sign into his lawn.
Another Liberal Democrat thread question!
OGH is obviously peeved about the LD’s lack of progess!
Ukip could well be second place as the momentum is with them!
£100 Ming bet on speaker looks a better prospect than LD second place!
.
.
Surely there are children of well known Labour figures who are looking for a constituency, who could stand in Scunthorpe.
Iain Martin has an interesting post on the Speaker’s predicament…
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/iain_martin/blog/2009/05/15/removing_the_speaker__monday_is_dday
.
.
The £ sign dig is on You Tube Watch all the way - Brilliant!
104. Martin Bell was only a puppet. The whole anti-Tory sleaze wheeze in Tatton was masterminded by Alistair Campbell. It’s all in his diaries:
Thurs March 27 1997
Sleaze was big again. I had the thought that we should field a single anti-Hamilton, independent, anti-corruption candidate in Tatton. I rang around for a few thoughts and most people were up for it. GB said he had been thinking of the same thing.
Fri March 28 1997
… it was mainly about Tatton and the plan, agreed yesterday, to pull out our man and get the Lib Dems to do the same and try to get a single anti-corruption canddiate…We would pile the pressure on the Tories, get days of good coverage out of their problems, and if we got the right candidate it would become one of THE stories of the election, run the whole way through and Hamilton would probably lose his seat at the end.”
Fri April 4 1997
“Martin Bell … said he would like to be the anti-corruption candidate. It was perfect. … I spoke to Bell, who said he would love to do it if we would have him”.
So much for independence. Campbell was only interested in anti-sleaze as a political gambit. It never had anything to do with a sincere desire to clean-up Westminster.
Given that many of us believe that the BNP vote is dramatically understated in the Sun poll then we could have an outcome more like a fourway contest for second,third and fourth and fifth place
Try this with the Sun poll and the BNP share boosted by 12%
Con 28%(no change),Lab 15%(-4),Lib(15%)-4,UKIP 15%(-4)BNP 15%(+1)
Labour is probably most at risk from a BNP surge hence current fear of a disastrous showing.
Ironically this may help Gordon escape yet again as he can blame the expenses saga rather than his own performance for the Labour performance.
rogerh
132 - The sickening thing is that the police have been called in for possible criminal damage. What about the fraudulent activities of MP’s isn’t that criminal? How many of them will be prosecuted?
136 - There seems to be a latent assumption that the Speaker will not feature in the Telegraph in the next couple of days. Is there any reason for that assumption?
Sinn Fein mount a robust defence to expense allegations.
“If only all the other parties were as open and transparent as Sinn Féin”
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/38193
FWIW, I do not think that the Lib Dems will beat Labour in polular vote in the Euro Elections. In the General Election, perhaps, but not the Euros. This is because the Lib Dems are rubbish - absolutely rubbish - at fighting European elections. They have come fourt in two of the last four European elections, because they have no campaigning style suitable for the contest. They cannot go “local”, they cannot go “two horse race” and they cannot go “we run the council properly”. All they have is “we are pro European”, and whatever its virtues that’s a policy which the Great British Public just doesn’t want to know about.
Labour in second place; Lib Dems and UKIP close to each other for third.
Totally OT, don’t suppose anyone knows of any markets on who’s going to win tomorrow’s election for leader of the Democratic Party of Japan (the main opposition party here), or failing that the related question of next Japanese PM?
138. Thanks for that - it baffles me that given this info (which has been around for some time) people still refer to Bell as having been an ‘independent’ candidate.
He also blew his cover somewhat with his weird decision to stand sgainst Eric Pickles, of course…
I see that the CBeebies have been “outed” in the Daily Rant, but strangely don’t appear on the BBC website of “offenders”!
138 - Ex-BBC man, should we be surprised?
141. From an ACA point of view he like field has low claims and has already been covered. The issue outstanding surrounds his ‘management’ of the HoC Authority and the Telegraph will not have the detail on that (although they may have started a separate investigation perhaps).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5298316/Michael-Martin-Speaker-spent-1400-on-chauffeurs-to-his-local-job-centre-and-Celtic-Park.html
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/michael_martin/glasgow_north_east#expenses
140. No, the sickening thing is the cruel and vicious method of the hysterical lawn attack. As Rod Crosby rightly puts it at comment 121 - “protestors have GOUGED a £ sign into Alan Duncan’s lawn”.
That £ sign - which must be thirteen or fourteen inches long - wasn’t just dug, it was GOUGED.
Yes, GOUGED.
And, as if that wasn’t enough, when they finished their orgy of RELATIVELY SMALL POUND SIGN GOUGING, this drunken crazy mob then SAVAGELY PLANTED some PERIWINKLES.
The Labour PPB last night was beyond anything I expected in the genre of negative and nasty campaigning. I am still trying to get my head around the decision to use Cameron’s name rather than the Conservative Party, huge mistake IMHO. That made it personal on the nasty and smearing stakes, and after the McBride scandal it was an unbelievable tactic to use. And the scare tactics wouldn’t even bear the lightest of scrutiny, just like those posters in 2005 when Nick Robinson totally skewered Blair and Brown on the dishonest figures they used.
As Mike Smithson and others have pointed out, go after the party behind him in an attempt to prove they haven’t changed. That might have resonated more. I wonder if the cabinet even saw this, or more importantly, agreed with it before it went out on the airwaves. The message was that Brown really hates Cameron, get over it and deal with the issues in a more open, honest and positive manner. I don’t think that Brown is capable of that, and the more under pressure he is, the more he attempts these tactics to undermine and weaken his opponents.
Scottish posters on here have been going on about the dangers of running a nasty or negative campaign in a similar vein to the one back in 2007. It was for me, a flavour of what was to come at the GE with Brown at the helm. Didn’t Brown, Alexander and McBride had their sticky mitts all over that campaign?
Would they learn by their mistakes, would they hell.
147 - Yes, but the Telegraph has brought up already known issues again during the past week or so. We already knew Darling had flipped 4 times for instance.
138. I should add Campbell explitly regarded the whole thing as a scam and Labour’s only worry was being found out:
Saturday March 29 1997
“The Hamilton scam was a rare total triumph, the splash I think in all the heavies, and a good show in the tabloids, big on the broadasts today. Peter M was worried it would unravel at the candidate’s press conference, but I had a long chat with him and with David Evans before they did it, then set off with the boys for Burnley.”
He also blew his cover somewhat with his weird decision to stand sgainst Eric Pickles, of course
It a good option, particularly on a windy beach.
138 I think he was fairly “independent” when he stood in Tatton, but I expect he got seduced by the party machines once he got elected. I am no particular fan of Eric Pickles, but Bell standing against him was bizarre. It struck me that Pickles was more sinned against than sinning - his local Association was being infiltrated by religious fundamentalists, and he was trying to act against them, or something like that. There was no suggestion of corruption or improper activity by him.
Bell had so many better targets at the time which he could have chosen instead. Sedgefield, for example, where the local MP had participated in an illegal foreign adventure.
149. Christina - you still seem to be labouring under the impression that Labour agree that the McBride tactics were somehow wrong.
Apart from anything else, I would have thought a few minutes spent on here would disabuse you of that notion.
Iain Martin at the Three Line Whip -
MPs’ expenses: Gordon Brown’s politics of fear film looks silly, not scary
“Fraser Nelson has taken apart Labour’s PPB tonight. It features various scared looking Britons reciting the terrible things that the Tory leader will supposedly do if he wins the general election.
And Fraser’s right: the smears get ever more ludicrous as the film goes on. If it had gone on any longer I suspect the following claims would have been made.
Small child, sobbing. Standing in front of rabbit’s cage: “David Cameron would restrict the supply of carrots. Your pet would die.” (cue creepy music and close up of petrified looking rabbit).
Tense looking mother of two. Standing in front of school gates: “David Cameron would close all schools. Apart from Eton.” Cut to shot of public school boys beating up comprehensive school pupils in rags.
Elderly war veteran. Sitting on floor: “David Cameron would make chairs expensive. Under a Conservative government only he and George Osborne could afford them.”
Look, negative campaigning can work if the ad is well made and the claims don’t sound silly and over the top. But the oddest aspect of this is that it did not occur to anyone in Labour that it looks completely inappropriate in the current climate. The Tories have re-shot their PPB, with a straight to camera apology to voters from Cameron for the expenses scandal. Labour’s machine is so broken that the idea of doing something similar appears to have passed them by.”
153. Bell was explicitly recruited by Alistair Campbell. He was never independent.
152 Eric Pickles, another timmy obsession. Is he at the top of your list of lovelies, togged up in lycra on a tandem with Wee Willie Hague?
There was a bit of discussion yesterday about Norman Baker’s office expenses. Norman has issued a fairly comprehensive rebuttal which will hopefully put this one to bed.
Baker statement
—————
I have long campaigned for transparency in MPs’ expenses and for the system to be drastically reformed to end unacceptable practices. I intend to continue to do so.
I therefore have no objection at all to public examination of my expenses, which for some time have been published on my own website.
I have pursued the actions above, not merely because they are right, but because I am confident that my own expenses claims have both met the rules and more importantly are morally justifiable.
I would point out that I have, along with only a minority of MPs, never used taxpayers’ money to obtain a mortgage and through that a capital gain, let alone indulged in “house flipping”.
I have not used the second home allowance for the acquisition of expensive consumer durables or for property repairs, and maintenance, the costs of which have fallen on my landlord.
In respect of today’s newspaper report, the facts are as follows:
(a) When I was elected in 1997, I secured a shop for rent in a mixed hereditament in Lewes High Street, with my landlady occupying the rest of the building.
(b) When in 2000 she decided to sell the building, I asked the Fees Office for advice on whether or not it was in order to buy the building for our own domestic purposes, and keep the office on site. I did so because
(i) We were in any case very keen to move houses and this house met our needs
(ii) The nature of the property is such that it would have presented operational problems had a new landlord or landlady been hostile politically
(iii) I did not want the upheaval, and indeed cost to the taxpayer, of moving offices shortly before an expected General Election
(c) I did not commit to purchase until I had received clearance, in writing, from the Fees Office
(d) As part of the proper protection for the taxpayer, the independent and external District Valuer was called in to decide the appropriate rent to be paid. His decision was of course accepted.
(e) The rent he decided was, in fact, marginally less than I had been paying to my landlady, so an immediate saving to the taxpayer was realised (along with the savings made by not moving).
(f) Not so long after I had moved to the house, the Fees Office indicated that they had changed their minds and that they had now decided that rent could not be paid to my wife and me, despite the written assurances in clear terms I had been given.
(g) A period of, from memory, about two years followed where no rent was paid and my wife and I provided an office in our house for Parliamentary use at no charge. Given that at that time it was not difficult to rent out shops in the High Street, my wife and I therefore lost well over ten thousand pounds of income as a consequence, while the taxpayer secured an office free of charge, saving the public purse a similar amount. The taxpayer has therefore lost no money as a result of the arrangements, indeed quite the reverse. I was thousands of pounds worse off, as I could have rented the space out for an income and the public purse would have paid for me to have an office elsewhere.
(h) In March 2006, I moved my constituency office to its present address, recommencing claiming for rent.
This whole story was subject to a story in a national newspaper several years ago, followed by a correction the following week. My Conservative opponents have been desperate to try to breathe life into this corpse of a story in order to try to damage my reputation, and have regularly been hawking it around journalists ever since.
Having said that, I am totally in favour of full disclosure when it comes to matters involving public money, and am happy to provide the facts.
If the allegation is that this is somehow an expenses fiddle it must be the only case where the MP accused is thousands of pounds out of pocket, and the taxpayer is better off, as a consequence.
Taken from http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/lewes-district-news/Lewes-MP-Norman-Baker-issues.5270120.jp
149 - just watched it. Its … insane. Its actually as if they’re trying to lose and lose badly.
153 - “Bell had so many better targets at the time which he could have chosen instead. Sedgefield, for example, where the local MP had participated in an illegal foreign adventure.”
Surely Bell fought Pickles in 2001 rather than 2005?
149. ChristinaD - “Scottish posters on here have been going on about the dangers of running a nasty or negative campaign in a similar vein to the one back in 2007. It was for me, a flavour of what was to come at the GE with Brown at the helm. Didn’t Brown, Alexander and McBride had their sticky mitts all over that campaign?
Would they learn by their mistakes, would they hell.”
Gordon Brown and Douglas Alexander are on a two-man mission to destroy the Labour Party. I wish them the very Best of British in their endeavours.
156 No, he was not “explicitly recruited” by Campbell; the name was suggested to him, and he agreed. The same name was also suggested to the Lib Dems (Rennard?) and they agreed. The name emerged over a period of time; if i remember correctly, Bell was originally suggested by a fellow journalist, who knew that Campbell ( a former hack) would at least have heard of him.
157
Maybe Tim reads the bard?
Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men, and such as sleep a-nights.
Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look.
He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous
seanT@148: Watching that video you also have to wonder whether Alan Duncan ended up keeping the money the protesters left attached to the Money Tree. If anyone wants to come and protest in my garden, let me know and I’ll give you directions…
160 - Augustus could have been referring to Kosovo.
Who cares who the next PM of Japan is? There’ll be yet another one along in a year (on average) anyway…
160 I beg your pardon, James, you are right.
OK, how about “He should have fought Sedgefield, for example, where the local MP looked like he was the sort of person who might, at any moment, participate in an illegal foreign adventure.”
Will that do?
154.runnymeade, I genuinely believe that a fair few of the PLP, Labour activists and supporters, did think the McBride tactics were wrong. They have, more often than not, been the main victims of this culture of nasty smearing from the Brownites over the years. And that was clear by the comments on here and elsewhere at the time.
Looking at my local regional newspaper yesterday. Maples and the Scottish Libdem and SNP MP’s who had their expenses revealed by the Telegraph, all got a very sympathetic write up in comparison to the others named and shamed.
Just been listening to a report on Michael Martin’s current difficulties, see that an SNP and a retired Labour MP have come to his defence today. I could smell the whiff of BS, as the inference was made that this was Westminster showing an anti Scots and class snobbery. Salt and vinegar on those chips?
.
.
I know I shouldn’t listen to phone ins but driving around today and listening to Radio 5, things do seem to be very serious and I am not sure what will happen next.
One problem for me is that Liberal Democrat MPs seem to be about as bad as the other parties and the party is quite rightly being treated as one of the 3 main parties, something we would have killed for 10 years ago.
Why hasn’t Gordon Brown asked Cameron and Clegg to see if they can work together to try and come up with a way forward. Most MPs clearly do incur some costs when away from home - whether home is in their constituency or London. The problem is that giving MPs even say £12,000 after tax on their salaries and stopping the ACA would mean a pay rise of £20,000 which would not be accepted by the public.
154.I genuinely believe that a fair few of the PLP, Labour activists and supporters, did think the McBride tactics were wrong. They have, more often than not, been the main victims of this culture of nasty smearing from the Brownites over the years. And that was clear by the comments on here and elsewhere at the time.
Looking at my local regional newspaper yesterday. Maples and the Scottish Libdem and SNP MP’s who had their expenses revealed by the Telegraph, all got a very sympathetic write up in comparison to the others named and shamed.
Just been listening to a report on Michael Martin’s current difficulties, see that an SNP and a retired Labour MP have come to his defence today. I could smell the whiff of BS, as the inference was made that this was Westminster showing an anti Scots and class snobbery. Salt and vinegar on those chips?
Barrichello at 9/1 [12/1 with sportingbet] looks interesting for Monaco. He finished far ahead of Button last season (not sure if there were racing incidents playing a role in that but he was quite a long way ahead).
I still think Vettel’s the likeliest winner.
Mike, I posted this when it was 11/4 a couple of days ago although it was difficult to get anymore than £50 on although I did manage to get on a prices 11/4 down to 2/1.
.
.
But Christina the latest Labour PPB was straight out of the Damian McBride play book. McBride was only part of the problem.
168: ‘Why hasn’t Gordon Brown asked Cameron and Clegg to see if they can work together to try and come up with a way forward’
Oh come on. You know the answer to that. Brown would probably like to see the whole world burn if it meant the Torys burned with him.
The Alan Duncan story is hilarious.
33/28 Comparing *actual* BNP results with polling figures for the BNP is silly. Everyone knows that many people would be unwilling to tell pollsters they vote BNP.
That said, it does seem that UKIP will pick up the lion’s share of the protest vote, and will probably pick up some big votess in the council elections, also, as they did in 2004. The BNP will probably be the protest party of choice in the County elections, though.
159 R
Most of what the Labour party does defies reason. From persistance with ID cards through to the gesture politics of a 50% tax rate which will actually return less tax than the previous rate.
Another source of constant amazement is the Labour partys inability to act.
Labour ought to be axing Brown now; before the Euros.
I know most of the leading contenders have self-immolated, Grey Jack (stupid boy!), Bananaman (Botox injections for Mr Miliband!), Others are rendered impotent by geometry, (call-me-Al) Johnson: the major player left is Hattie.
Cool (positively bone-headed) under fire, untainted by sleaze, already elected to a role as Deputy Leader by the party.
She (yes that’s a SHE - a section of society that is underrepresented in Parliament) would be the logical choice to run the Labour party onto the rocks of a GE and allow the passengers to escape.
The alternative is going down with Capn Brown.
And the Labour party will choose to drown together.
167 - That will do! Although James B is right, you could have had Kosovo as an answer (Bell was opposed although it probably wasn’t a real election issue). I agree the decision to go against Pickles was bizarre.
Personally, I think he should have gone back on his promise only to serve one term in Tatton. He could have done it quite easily, “I totally understand if you decide not to re-elect me, but I have so enjoyed representing this wonderful area…” and he probably had a better than even chance of winning. That he didn’t speaks quite well of him in a way, although I think it was a principle without a purpose.
168.Icarus, you make a fair point about Brown getting Clegg and Cameron together for a meeting. That should have been the first move a few days ago, but Brown burnt those bridges before the Telegraph even started the naming and shaming expose. That YouTube effort, followed by his behaviour towards Cameron and Clegg at their meeting a few weeks ago ruined that option. His desperate behaviour back then now makes sense, I bet that Nick Brown had warned him of the problems that were coming from his own MP’s.
Good Afternoon,
two Lib Dems to watch
1. Lembit Opik. His interview on TWaO sugests he is teatering close to the edge. If he jumps or is pushed it could be fun.
2. Vince Cable. He is absolutely eaten up with regret that he didn’t stand for Lib Dem leader, he is getting on and he is legacy shopping. Facing impending Tory apocalypse and no lib/lab accomodatio to get us through the recession i think the Speakers apartments look quite attractive
167 - Given that you’re ignoring Kosovo, i don’t think legality is really your point.
“He should have fought Sedgefield, for example, where the local MP looked like he was the sort of person who might, at any moment, participate in an foreign adventure that I oppose.”
There.
Thats better.
169. Christina - I’m sure there are/were some discordant voices. But not in the heart of the New Labour op, where it matters.
Poor old Hunky Dunky - Fancy having the great unwashed lowering the tone of his lawn.
169. ChristinaD
That’s politics Chris.
It is in the SNP’s interests for Michael Martin to stay in the Speaker’s chair.
Quite frankly, the longer that Martin and Brown stay in their respective posts, the better it gets for the Tory party.
Do not look a gift horse in the mouth.
172 - I disagree, it was out of the cornered rat playbook. Negative campaigning has to be subtle and play into a widely percieved weakness not a narrow obsession. It also has to be brief and contrasted against a positive alternative, not a negative monologue with nothing positive.
165 Oh no. James, why did you have to bring up the ‘K’ word?
179 - You will find a lot of people opposed the Iraq war because they thought it was illegal. I think it was legal but also immoral and stupid. Could we compromise on:
“He should have fought Sedgefield, for example, where the local MP looked like he was the sort of person who might, at any moment, participate in an foreign adventure that was illegal and/or immoral and/or stupid.”
183, I did enjoy the pensioners. Apparently £60 matters more than the lost income from savings due to 0.5% interest rates and the collapse of the pensions system because Brown fancied a slice.
Very interesting figures for the Scottish sample.
Westminster
SNP - 38%
Lab - 27%
Con - 15%
LD - 14%
Europe
SNP - 40%
Lab - 21%
LD - 14%
Con - 13%
Rebranded Horse@166: The more important question is which party’s going to win, since that changes rather less often… It’ll be a lot less likely to change if the opposition pick Yukio “That’s Not Change You Can Believe In” Hatoyama tomorrow, which is looking fairly likely.
181 - In that video someone does appear to be phoning Duncan to warn him.
Sheer bad luck that he was on the far edge of the lawn and couldn’t get back in time to apprehend the diggers.
‘it was out of the cornered rat playbook’
You think there’s a difference, James?
Smearing has been at the centre of New Labour strategy from the off - the difference now is that it is all they have left, given they no longer have any kind of a record to stand on.
158. Just because Baker has issued a rapid rebuttal doesnt “put the matter to bed”
He’s my MP and I think it stinks - yes, it was within “the rules” but it was wrong and sleazy.
Baker is clearly in panic mode, and know’s he’s going to get a pounding at the ballot box in favour of “the Nasty Tories” as he and his local party are describing local Conseratives who have the nerve to criticise St Norman
187. Are they the regional breakdowns for The Sun poll?
I must admit that I haven’t watched it yet..so was the Labour PPB just entirely ‘Cameron will eat your babies and kill your first-born’ stuff, all negative with no alternative/postive Labour points?
Oh dear…they’ve already lost and are in opposition mode then.
Re post 138 - yes a bit of Labour spin and Bell was pretty ineffective when in parliament.
193. Yep, the Labour PEB was truely terrible.
188 — “Meet the new LDP PM, same as the old LDP PM.”
EXCLUSIVE TO PB **** EXCLUSIVE TO PB ****
The Diary Of Stewpool Jackson Aged 44.
Friday Afternoon.
Well …. who’d have thought it !! …. I’ve been approached by Hoggy and the MacKay’s to join their new “Clean Up The Tories” group. Apparently the poacher turned gamekeeper approach is gaining ground and I’m the frontrunner as Watersports Secretary.
Hoggy seems to think the moat at Leeds Castle in Kent might do for the inaugral meeting. I agree but I’ve been unable to contact the MacKays in their constituencies homes. Rumour has it that as it’s Friday they’re both giving alms to the poor and washing the feet of their constituents. Perhaps I can use my swimming pool for the same …. I’m sure a small charge would be allowed.
187. Very interesting, Jim. Two thoughts:
(1) I wonder if Stuart would like to explain the Incredible Disappearing Lib Dem Meltdown? Maybe, of course, it’s a rogue, but that must be the Lib Dems’ best Scottish performance in ages.
(2) If UKIP is getting 19% across Britain with only low support in Scotland, it must be on almost 25% in England.
193, worth watching. Shows a chap hammering a blue punchbag intercut with various ‘neutral’ people like a student, an old married couple and a formerly unemployed tosspot all stating that Cameron would do awful awful things.
It’s a step away from showing a grandma with two black eyes and asserting the Tories want to commit GBH on every pensioner in the country.
190 - True!
193 - Slackbladder
Yes, totally. Nothing positive at all.
186. Unfortunately for the Labour Party - “we can’t think of a good reason to vote for us either” - the average pensioner is very aware of just how much Brown’s economic incompetence has cost them and will cost future generations.
201, not true. It inaccurately claimed millionaires would be given £200,000 by the Tories.
What it meant was that dead millionaires (and those who have less than a million) will get less of their inheritance seized by the state.
202, leaving aside moral and financial implications of that, pensioners are one of the worst groups to piss off because they actually bother to vote.
167. Augustus Carp - I think you’re obfuscating the issue. Having an anti-sleaze candidate in Tatton was Alistair Campbell’s idea. He then cast around for a suitable candidate and Martin Bell was identified and agreed (indeed wanted) to do it. That, in my book, is recruitment. The general public has been led to believe it was Martin Bell’s spontaneous and independent decision. It wasn’t. It was spin, masterminded by Campbell, who himself called it “a scam”. In a way it was this original scam that has led directly to the state of affairs in Westminster today. Millions of people voted for Labour because they believed they would clean up Westminster. Gordon Brown renewed that pledge when he became PM. He could have been tackling expenses from Day 1 in office. But the truth is new Labour were only ever interested in “Tory” sleaze from a purely cyncial, party political perspective. It is now payback time - not just for the expenses themselves - but for the whole cyncial setup that’s led to this debacle.
Norman Baker is a complete twat, on the Speaker he had this to say.
“Some people will defend the Speaker, saying this is a class war attack because he’s from Scotland, and working class. That could be levelled at the Tories, but not at us.”
Erm yes, because the Conservatives cannot possibly be motivated by the fact that Michael Martin is a useless speaker, oh no!
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/norman_baker_the_speaker_is_quite_simply_not_up_to_the_job.html
How to do an attack video. Compare to the Labour PPB.
Highest Question Time audience for 9 YEARS last night - average 3.8m.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/may/15/tvratings-television
207: Whoah…heady stuff…only need to double their audience to get the numbers to Apprentice levels..
Incredible that the speaker is on the way out and Gordon Brown has positioned himself as his defender, instead of using him as a scapegoat.
The Queen is very lucky that Gordon Brown wasn’t Prime Minister when Princess Diana died. If he had been, this country would be a republic by now. He has no idea how to handle public opinion or how to turn a bad position into a better one.
I can’t understand how he can have been regarded as a top political operator, or even a reasonably intelligent person, for so long. Can it be that he is actually not as good as he used to be? Or was he never that good?
William Hill - BNP to win 1 or more seats in the 2009 European Parliament Election
Yes 1/5
No 10/3
206 Curious. Who financed that ad?
.
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From The Guardian: “Police received several formal letters of complaint about MPs’ misuse of public funds and the London mayor, Boris Johnson, said there could be grounds for an inquiry in some cases.
“I think, frankly, looking at some of these cases it looks to me as though plod needs to come in,” he said.”
Has anyone looked at Boris’s ACA? He claimed the maximum for the last two years he was an MP.
209: It does make you wonder how Blair would have dealt with this. I would imagine hhe would be everywhere he could be on the screen damping down everything, appearing sorry and humbled and come up with new ideas, and you know what, he’d probably get people going along with him and beleiving in him.
211
Tim Montgomerie and James Bethell
209 badman. Both the government and the Tories will sustain the position of the Speaker. Indeed on QT last night Theresa May explicitly said in terms that it was the role of the official opposition to die in the ditches for him.
Individual MP’s may take a contrary view but the official position of Brown and Cammo is clear. Speaker Martin stays.
188- The old Democratic Socialists seem to have suprisingly swung behind Okada, and the efforts at polling by the papers over there also look favourable. Well, an Ozawa insider isn’t to be taken lightly but I wouldn’t say Okada is out of it yet, he seems to be having some success outside of the anti-ozawa crowd.
Though of course, could end up a case of meet the new governing party, same as the old governing party…
212. Icurus you don’t get it do you? Whether someone claims the minimum or the maximum is largely irrelevant.
ALright chaps and chapesses, here’s the Rant of the Day: Archbishop Cranmer laying into McKay - an extract for your delectation:
“The man is one of the most odious, malicious, deceitful and vindictive people in politics. The Prince is his bible, 1984 is his creed, and Mein Kampf is his manifesto. He had the power to construct a party in his image – to determine who was in and who was out; who was advanced and who was perpetually frustrated. And he ruthlessly and mercilessly exercised it. The profound sadness is that as much as David Cameron attempts to restore the moral foundation of the Party’s expression of Conservatism, Andrew MacKay will remain a sleazy and corrosive irritant which will fatally undermine the virtuous restoration. He is a chimera of Rasputin, Stalin and Machiavelli. His continuing presence in the Party perverts the cause of truth, and the mere sight of him offends against all notions of humility and integrity. For Andrew MacKay, people do not matter, humanity is secondary, and compassion is non-existent. To talk of degeneracy or disgust would be complimentary: if Speaker Martin is faecal bacteria, Andrew MacKay is an entire sewer.”
http://www.archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com
215 - Yes, but do you not think that Cameron would officially say that whilst licencing his backbenchers to ‘get him’.
28 Morus. Not too sure that ACAS has much of a role there !!
215. We’ll see. Parliament will not be able to move on without serving up the Speaker. We’ll see how much damage Brown and Cameron are prepared to take before doing what they inevitably will have to….
218. That does seem to overstate the case slightly.
Third and final Lib Dem to watch. Lord Rennard. Influentcial and articulate party members with pitch folks are at his door. e is going to have to either
1. Say he lives in Eastbourne as his main residence.
2. Pay the £41k back
3. Resign
One to watch. Note also the ominious Lib Dem voice post referencing Party President Ros Scott’s blog.
214
Excellent video. That’s the way to do it. Looks like taking apart the BNP is yet another thing we’ll have to do whilst Labour implodes.
218
Cranmer is one of the best writers on the blogosphere. And he’s right about Mackay.
219
Personally I don’t care if the Speaker is removed, so long as he doesn’t stand again. The more important thing is that backbenchers on all sides are standing up to the commons authorities and not bothering much with what the whips think. Refreshing.
219 James B. No. Far too explosive. If Cammo’s paws were seen on the removal of a Speaker, even one as poor as Martin, he would be very badly damaged.
In any case Cammo can leave well alone and let the dogs of parliament do their work.
218 - Cameron has been weak with regard to Mackay (and Kirkbride).Why did Cameron put him so close in the first place?
209 Blair was the genius at electioneering, Gordon of course thought Blair was all front and Gordon provided the serious effective content. Reading the US pollster guys memories of Labour campaigns its noticeable that except for rows about direction, where Blair’s instincts turn out to be good, Brown isn’t the central figure.
Lots of the stuff was put out by Brown’s acolytes. Not sure why Blair never took Brown on, he probably judged correctly that his support wasn’t deep enough and thought Brown had the numbers in terms of PLP support but I wonder?
218 - And MacKay isn’t even a Papist.
225 - Yes that is the case, but personally I think he would be clever enough to not be caught!
219, 225 - All that is needed for a great evil to come to pass is for a few good men to do nothing. Words that the Speaker will no doubt be reflecting on this weekend.
229 James B. Why take such a terrible and completely avoidable risk ??
231 - Well you wouldn’t if the reward wasn’t big enough.
230 antifrank. Not quite sure even Speaker Martin qualifies as “great evil” !!
209-The Queen is very lucky that Gordon Brown wasn’t Prime Minister when Princess Diana died. If he had been, this country would be a republic by now.
Would at least be one good thing GB did!
Went to the Labour party website where they call themselves the democratic socialist party of Britain. Reminded me of those democratic socialist republics so beloved by some.
Now 8/13 Lab v 5/4 LD in our Euro match bet. Here’s some top quality PR, issued before the latest price change:
PUNTERS GIVE LABOUR NIL POINTS
POLITICS punters are predicting that Labour will bear the brunt of Britain’s disgust with its politicians at the forthcoming European Parliament Elections.
The Party polled just 22 per cent of the vote share the last time the country went to the polls to decide who represented them at Brussels.
Ladbrokes were odds on that Labour would clear the 20 per cent mark this time round when they drew up the market at the end of April.
But they are now odds against after customers left them in no doubt that they had their prices wrong.
Spokesman Robin Hutchison said: “Both the bookies and Labour could take quite a hit in a few weeks time, the difference is we won’t be able to claim it on our expenses.
“They would be better competing at the Eurovision Song Contest than the European Parliament Elections.”
Labour were 8/11 to poll more than 20 per cent on April 30th and even money to fall below that mark. They are now 7/4 over and 2/5 under.
The good news for supporters is that they are 1/2 to earn more votes than the Liberal Democrats.
The BNP are 4/9 to win at least one seat, but UKIP are 2/7 to win more votes than them.
And just for a bit of fun on those Scottish figures Electoral Calculus produces an interesting result.
Con - 2
Lab - 12
LD - 8
SNP - 37
SNP seats gained and losing MPs.
Dunbartonshire West - John McFall
Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East - /
Glenrothes - Lindsay Roy
Glasgow Central - /
Livingston - Jim Devine
Falkirk - Eric Joyce
Inverclyde - David Cairns
East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow - Adam Ingram
Dunfermline and West Fife - Willie Rennie
Dundee West - Jim McGovern
Midlothian - David Hamilton
Kilmarnock and Loudoun - Des Browne
Linlithgow and East Falkirk - Michael Connarty
Glasgow South - Tom Harris
Lanark and Hamilton East - Jimmy Hood
Aberdeen North - Frank Doran
Paisley and Renfrewshire North - Jim Sheridan
Glasgow North - Ann McKechin
Edinburgh East - /
Ayrshire North and Arran - Katy Clark
East Lothian - Anne Picking
Ayr Carrick and Cumnock - Sandra Osborne
Inverness Nairn Badenoch and Strathspey - Danny Alexander
Aberdeen South - Anne Begg
Edinburgh South West - Alistair Darling
Edinburgh North and Leith - Mark Lazarowicz
Stirling - Anne McGuire
Ochil and South Perthshire - Gordon Banks
Edinburgh South - Nigel Griffiths
Gordon - Malcolm Bruce
Argyll and Bute - Alan Reid
178. Vince won’t be Speaker either because he is identified as being too partisan given his economic lectures. I do think Vince is damaged as well by expenses! I am going to do an “amusing” take on his expense claims!
233 - I was rather thinking of a great evil coming to pass to the Speaker if David Cameron sits on his hands. But I think you knew that…
234, balderdash.
The monarchy is a great institution, and we’re fortunate to have the present monarch as our head of state. After all this scandal do you really think people will look at the monarchy and see anything but value for money? They bring in billions in tourism, they cost less than MPs or the BBC and the buildings they reside in would have to be maintained for our national heritage even if they were vacated.
And do people really want some godawful president, an elected politician, as head of state when we can have the Royal Family?
Nay, nay and thrice nay!
Hurrah for the monarchy, and boo sucks to rotten republican rapscallions!
223 - YS
Yes, M’lord Rennard could soon be a household name, for all the wrong reasons, if the various rumours are true.
238 antifrank. I did ….but even so, “great evil” ?!?!
BTW what have you got against Frank ??
We don’t need a presidente either. Just have an empty chair at the top.
Bring on Sverdlovsk!!
226. sorry “camerons been weak” . You should look to your own side my friend. Brown has some of the biggest scoundrels of this whole affair STILL sitting round the cabinet table. Darling, Hoon, Smith et al with their various Dacha’s. Not to mention Browns own extensive property interests. I suppose not everyone can claim to have bought a property from one of the biggest pension crooks in history…
Still as ever with socialists “do as i do…..”
241 - Lots of people talk to Frank…
http://www.talktofrank.com/
223. YS - No keep rennard! He is useless - he fights the last war!
When ever i see rennard i can just imagine him having a password protection system like the fat bloke in Jurrasic Park who gets eaten by something like a large Iguana! “MMMMMmmmmm You forgot the magic word!!!!”
Liberal Democrats like Huhne do his party no favours on TV by making the expense thing partisan like Malik did! Indeed Huhne has done the house a diservice by trying to deflect attention away by bringing up the speakers hold on office. To be honest i think Clegg is bad but Huhne much worse, he picks fights all the time and ones he will lose/not get the outcome he wants. So LD’s made the best of two shite choices. I still think Nick Clegg = Neil Kinnock!
223 Yellow sub
Regarding Rennard, Clegg cannot take the moral high ground until he cleans out his own stables. So far he is yet to discipline anyone he has just talked about it. Each day that goes by the Rennard problem may become his albatross. Rennard has not issued any official denial (AFAIK) of the NOTW story.
http://tinyurl.com/o2ztgn
The LDs seem to want to hide the problem. Very few of their blogs have mentioned it and unlike the Conservative blogs there is no sense of a party that wants to cleanse itself of their porkers.
But it seems that it is the Party President who may drive the process rather than Clegg. Will she live up to her promises or just endorse a cover up?
241 - My name does not relate to any person called Frank, whether by first or last name, or even the French (I like garlic and stripey jumpers). It is a vaguely work-related not very amusing in-joke for myself and I think that one or two people on here might have guessed how it was derived. But I shall try to keep a wholly spurious air of mystery about it.
239 - Great Good sense from the Morris Dancer tendency!
180.Totally agree with that, it comes through in that PPB. That’s why I asked if the rest of the Cabinet had seen it, and more importantly okayed it. I suspect not. But to ignore the mistakes of 2007, and then go further along that campaigning route reeks of desperation on Brown’s part. The mask that he had carefully constructed fell off completely, and the message was I really really hate Cameron in a very personal way. Its got to further weaken Brown’s position at the moment, and it makes it more likely that he will go himself or be pushed?
.
.
Slam [217]- Which I why you need to look at the detail. Or are you saying they shouldn’t have claimed anything?
re 41 probably because the old fool is spending even more of our money at Messrs Cater-Ruck again.
Do you any of you write for the Daily Mash? Whoever does, they’ve saw QT last night as well.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/question-time-audience-marches-on-london-200905151763/
180.Totally agree with that, it comes through in that broadcast. That’s why I asked if the rest of the Cab!net had seen it, and more importantly okayed it? I suspect not. But to ignore the mistakes of 2007, and then go further along that campaigning route reeks of desperation on Brown’s part. The mask that he had carefully constructed fell off completely, and the message was I really really hate Cameron in a very personal way. Its got to further weaken Brown’s position at the moment, and it makes it more likely that he will go himself or be pushed?
Fed up with HoC?
Then go and sign petition to dissolve it.
http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/27778.html
218 Morus, you don’t think that the fact Adrian Hilton was asked to resign as a PPC by Andrew Mackay on Michael Howard’s orders might just have coloured “Archbishop Cranmer”’s views a bit. IIRC correctly there was a bit of a row (Boris supporting Hilton) and Mackay might have been a bit forthright in his dealings.
Hilton was the victim of dirty tricks by Labour, and shamefully the Catholic Church allowed itself to be drawn in. As an RC myself I felt then and now that it was ill judged of the Church to get involved, possibly closeness between certain people in Westminster, Cathedral & Palace.
244 James B.
247 antifrank. Oki-dokey.
180 I agree with that. I wonder if Johnson, Straw &Co had seen and agreed this line of attack? I suspect not. But to ignore the mistakes of 2007, and then go further along that campaigning r0ute reeks of desperation on Brown’s part. The mask that he had carefully c0nstructed fell away completely, and the message was of a very pers0nal nature. Its got to further weaken Brown’s position at the moment, and it makes it more likely that he will go himself or be pushed?
255 The Cabinet apparently saw Gordons YouTube pronouncement but only when it was ready to go online and were not offered much chance to criticise the approach so probably the same here.
They do seem scared of Nasty Gordon throwing things at them don’t they - except perhaps for the Chipmunk.
248. Lib Dems silent on smeargate, now this. Their true colours as a Labour front organisation once again in evidence…
I don’t recall this has been posted. The detail of the Yougov / Sun poll.
http://www.yougov.co.uk/extranets/ygarchives/content/pdf/sun_full150509.pdf
Labour seem to have suffered across the country in the Westminster section of the vote. Whereas the reaction to the Conservatives primarily seems to have occurred in Scotland and the North (where they still lead Labour comfortably) primarily. In the South and London the Conservative vote share has increased in comparison to the previous poll.
In the Euros it is worth noting that the BNP do much better in London and the Midlands than elsewhere. Could they sneak an MEP out of one of those areas possibly?
259.I had a hell of a job getting that post through the spam filter today. RM, for some reason, if I use your tag, it sends my post into the ether. So apologies for not having the manners to address you by your name, its not me being rude.
Now all my attempts to post have appeared on PB.com???? Apologies, Mike or Morus could you delete them bar one?
261 runnymede. Do you never tire of spinning the same drivel ??
Government is bottling out of the secret inquests idea.
The climbdown is a fresh humiliation over the issue for the justice secretary because he was initially forced to drop it from last year’s counter-terrorism bill amid the parliamentary battle over raising to 42 days the limit on detention without charge of terror suspects.
Straw has now acknowledged that this has failed to satisfy his critics – who in the past have included a former lord chief justice and two former attorneys general – and it is unlikely to get through the House of Lords. Straw said that “following further discussions in the house and with interested parties it is clear the provisions still do not command the necessary cross-party support”.
The government will propose to delete clauses 11 and 12 in the coroners and justice bill when it comes before the Lords next week. This means also dropping a proposal to modify the blanket ban on intercept evidence to allow its use in special inquests. The deletions follow meetings with human rights organisations Inquest and Liberty, as well as the main political parties.
The justice secretary insisted that the secrecy provision was still needed to deal with “some rare but very important cases” where there may be highly sensitive information directly relevant to the circumstances of the death that could not be made public in any way.
265. No more than you do of posting tedious and unfunny attempts at humour and fake biographical details.
254, no but I see they have a suspiciously familiar line about a makeshift catapult.
As always, Morris Dancer leads the agenda, whether pointing out how talented Vettel is or founding the new political theme of space cannons and medieval siege weaponry.
David Cameron in Perth will be on shortly.
267 runnymede. So you concede you post utter testicles. Thank you.
270. Goodness what’s a supposedly aged aristocrat doing resorting to lower fifth form debating tactics?
Will we have yet another tearful farewell soon?
Hmm…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5326677/Tahir-Zaman-controversial-developer-MPs-expenses.html
Re Balls/Cooper, this is an extraordinary set of quotes from the Pontefract and Castleford Express at http://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpress.co.uk/news/MPs39-expenses-Yvette-Cooper-refutes.5272370.jp
She says the Parliamentary Standards Commission found “that we had been financially disadvantaged rather than advantaged.”
and
“We paid more in CGT than we claimed in three years in housing allowance.”
Er, hello? Just because you paid CGT like everyone else, doesn’t mean that you somehow LOST money by getting your mortgage bills subsidised by the taxpayer (whose own mortgage bills are NEVER subsidised) and your food bills subsidised too, without paying any tax at all on the mortgage benefit or the food bill payments, and without digging into your joint taxpayer funded salary of hundreds of thousands of pounds a year.
Why is Hilary Benn not a more credible Labour leader candidate? He’s clean. He was popular with a big section of the party, but not the PLP, in the deputy leadership ballot. He isnt unpopular in some sections of the party as Andy Burnham or Purnell or Balls or either Miliband. Yes, he is a bit bland. Yes, he is a bit long in the tooth (not really old, but older than the young guns), while still being a relative newby MP. But 66/1 on Ladbrokes strikes me as being a bit on the long side?
A compromise candidate coming in from the outside? Any opinions?
229
“Not sure why Blair never took Brown on, he probably judged correctly that his support wasn’t deep enough and thought Brown had the numbers in terms of PLP support but I wonder?”
I suspect a major point was that Blair thought that Brown was actually rather good at the financial and economic stuff for which he had no real capacity himself. Sadly for us, he was wrong about that as about so much else. Does anyone know if he has been interviewed about expense claims at all, and asked to explain why having been elected to clean up politics he did nothing about the culture of the HoC that has now been exposed?
271 runningmouth. I regret rising to you tedious and repetitve garbage.
The fact is you are a one trick pony whose contribution to PB might best be described as shallow to the point of bone dry. I can’t help feeling that if Mike ever paid for quality multiple contributions then we’d all be due a massive refund from you.
Endex old fruit.
275. Steve H. It probably didnt seem to matter much when the economy was booming. No one would have cared in 2005 or in 2000. Also Blair (or rather Cherie) showed every intention of taking as much as possible.
274 - Because he’s dull as ditchwater, he did abysmally in the deputy leader competition, couldn’t set a sea of oil on fire (never mind the Thames) and has never given a glimmer of his vision for the future of his party and his country?
But 66-1 may be worth a sniff.
The labour PPB is awful, reminded me of brass eye, I thought at the end the bag would burst open and a whole load of kittens and puppies would drop out.
274, I agree with antifrank at 278. He did terribly in the deputy contest and is about as exciting as listening to Alistair Darling giving a ten hour speech on the history of pockets.
276. Ha! talk about the pot calling the kettle black - the most repetitive, tiresome and self-indulgent poster of all accuses others of his own failings.
How many people are on the committee, now, btw?
274. The quiet man of the Labour Party. I don’t think he’d be taken seriously. The next leader has to be tough and push through quite strong breaks from the past 10 years, at least in the presentation sense. I think the first job of a successful new Labour leader will be to purge the Brownites. Whilst I can see someone like Johnson, Hattie, Purnell, Cruddas et al having the ability to do so, I get the feeling Benn would just flounder hopelessly.
I don’t know if this has been posted (apologies if it has). Randall nails Martin:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5325809/MPs-expenses-The-Speaker-should-have-put-a-stop-to-this-not-indulged-in-it.html
Challenged over why she “flipped” the designation of her second home, Blears said she was “forced” to name her constituency address as her second home by Commons officials: “The only reason that my Salford home was designated my second home was at the insistence of the fees office, who said that when you become a minister you live in London.”
Shahid Malik (a minister) did not nominate his London home as his main home but made large additional allowance claims for it ashis second home.
Under the “rules” either Hazel Blears is wrong or Shahid Malik is wrong - which is it?.
279. It didn’t stop short of that. The subtext was the Tories liked mugging grannies and leaving cancer sufferers to die.
JackW - but the LibDems on here have got frightfully thin skins - as demonstrated if anyone has the temerity to suggest a slightly slipped halo…!
Perhaps they think it might spoil their next Election literature:
“Liberal Democrats - NOT sinning here!!”
164 - Madasafish, have you diversified into selling mice?
275, 278: If it’s a pre-election change of leader, I think we’re now down to two or perhaps three candidates, are we not? Johnson, Harman and perhaps D. Miliband. Johnson must now be favourite by a long way, given Harman’s pretty unambiguous comments, and D. Miliband doesn’t seem to impress anyone. Straw is ruled out on expenses grounds, as is Darling (not that he was in the running particularly, but I did put a fiver at 200-1 on him a while back!). No one else has the authority to take over in the middle of an unprecedented dual financial and governance crisis.
If it’s post-election: anyone’s guess, frankly.
Boring betting summary alert.
INDIVIDUAL SEATS:Very,very boring.I offer 6-4 both LAB and CON at Brighton Pavillion with no takers.
ELECTION DATE: Quite interesting.Money for H2 2009.
MOST SEATS:No support for the Tories considering the latest poll.Good support for LD.LOL !
OVERALL MAJORITY: After the battle it has gone very quiet.3.85 NOM is available via the back door.
PARTY LEADERS: Extremely boring.No signs of a coup.
PANTY SEATS LINE:Most interesting, with the general tendency to SELL everything !
Quiet on the Plaid Cymru front.Could it be the influence of the chapel ?
288, Milipede will run but I’d be staggered if he got it. I looked manlier when I was 14, and I acted less like a schoolboy when I was 12.
In past Euro elections minority parties and I principally mean UKIP will normally have been disadvantaged by their lack of an activist base. Very few members to knock up etc. and get the vote out.
I would have thought that the expenses situation would make a more level playing field as activists for the main parties decide they might have something better to do this month. As a retired activist I can’t imagine that I’d be wanting to open myself up to abuse on the phones and the doorsteps - particularly as I’d be taking that abuse on behalf of Andrew MacKay!
Yet another long, boring BETTING post got shredded.Maybe I bore the spam filter.
288. RN. No, surely Balls must stand. If he doesnt, he’s toast.
279. I was hoping they would go on with it, just endless blue-tinted shots of the faceless man whaling on the bag while concerned-looking people claimed that David Cameron would force your children to work on coca plantations and reinstate the droit de seigneur.
And then there could be the kittens and puppies tumbling out of the bag. It would be magnificent.
Paul Waugh on forthcoming PPB by Tories.
He has this to say
Much the same as he is saying at Perth just now
292 ken - By ‘candidate’ I meant from a betting point of view as potentially the winner. Others might throw their hat in the ring, but I can’t see Balls actually winning.
Labour are not THAT suicidal, are they?
294. Fitaloon. But Gordon can address the nation for free tonight and every night. There’s always You-Tube!
Wrong time to go on holiday, too much to read and take in all the developments since Monday- for all these polls, there is no outward sign of any Euro campaign in London, so far. I am sure the electorate are really scunnered. Everyone I meet nearly foams in the mouth at just the mention of the words, ‘Members of Parliament.’
288 - Johnson is such a non-starter for PM in my book.
He has not shown any leadership potential at all in any of his ministerial positions.
He has no flair, no identifiable policy positions and no USP - other than not being Brown.
He is not a positive choice - just one with fewer negatives than many of the others.
If that is all Labour can offer (and on the basis of their recent performance and the PEB - it probably is), then they are the sorriest excuse for a major political party in modern history.
287
Stephen B
That looks a carp advert from some (s)pratt living in Fife. Fife is a nice place if you like shipyards .
The real Madasafish is alive and well and breathes in Staffordshire where the rivers are purer than the rubbish that flows into the Firth of Forth.
Sorry the last post was on-topic, but I realise Labour leadership seems to be what’s being discussed.
Nobody wants it - nobody at all; except, bizarrely, Gordon Brown. He won’t resign, no-one will try and push him. Then they’ll end up with someone bizarre after the election; a Foot/Hague situation. Probably Jon Cruddas who in any normal circumstances would be ruled out by his name alone.
seant - just finished “Genesis”.
B+ - I learned a lot of stuff about ancient cultures and archaeology. Would have been A except that “Rob” seemed a little too like a certain regular PBC contributor!
Are you working on a sequel?
290. “Very few members to knock up etc.”
Decorum, please!!
286 MM. Lib Dems supporters are surely not the only ones with thin skins !! …. Lordy me until recently even the most modest critisism of Conservatives was met with a howl of abuse from the usual suspects.
The fact is some of the party supporters of all parties on PB are a bore too far. Clogging up threads with some on the most one eyed crap it’s ever been a displeasure to read. Little wonder poor Mike has had to enforce new posting rules.
279 - do you have a link?
295, I can. It’s unlikely, but Balls has a better chance than Milipede.
On-topic - next week’s by elections may give us a clue.
One is in Barton, Lincolnshire, candidates Con/Lab/LD. This is not actually in Elliot Morley’s Scunthorpe constituency, but in its neighbour. However, I think it is within the circulation area of the local Scunthorpe paper which has followed Mr Morley’s case.
The other, by an act of serendipity, is in Hazel Blears’ Salford constituency, candidates Lab/LD/Con/BNP/Green/UKIP. This should give some indication of the extent to which “others” will benefit from the present events.
305
Balls has had too many bypasses to succeed: charisma, loyalty, honesty, modesty and leadership to name but a few.
297. Dead right on Euro presence in London; my wife was very surprised when we got voting cards.
307, which of those does Brown have?
Blair only had charisma and leadership (arguably loyalty).
He’s learnt from Brown, the master of manipulating the PLP.
He’s an outsider, but not so much as Benn or Milipede.
[284] - Under the “rules” either Hazel Blears is wrong or Shahid Malik is wrong - which is it?.
Neither [I think] - the rules changed. For most of the time Blears did as Malik did, which was to claim expenses on her more expensive London home, but there was a period before Malik became a minister when the rules insisted that Minister’s had to designate their London home as their main home.
Of course, Blears is distracting from the real issues with her alleged corruption, which are that (a) she used expenses to do up several [3?] flats before selling them, and (b) she avoided CGT by designating the flats she was claiming expenses for as her main home to the tax authorities.
Bloomberg is portraying this scandal as a disaster for Brown more than anyone else, saying that he is being criticized by his own MP’s for his ‘monkey see, monkey do’ approach (i.e., waiting to see what Cameron will do and then mimicking him). They also highlight Labour’s parade of horribles to illustrate Brown’s problem. Are Labour really getting the worst of this (the referenced poll seems to indicate they are)? After a week of dominoes falling, has the narrative clearly turned in favor of a decisive Cameron over a rudderless Brown?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aXwMW7LflqlI&refer=worldwide
296. When was the last time a PM addressed the nation on TV?
In my childhood I seem to remember they were fairly common.
Wilson over “the pound in your pocket”
Heath over Europe and the blackouts.
Callaghan over the 1978 non-election (IIRC)
Major also I think.
Why have theses broadcasts fallen out of fashion?
306. That Salford result really will be interesting; what was the result last time and is there anything special about it - i.e the last Councillor stood down for an interesting reason (is now in jail etc.).
301: Whats the chances that his next book will contain a character called tim which somehow meets his demise in the most giserly way imaginable?
311. Interesting stats in the Guardian today which show that on average Labour MPs were the lowest claimants but that’s definitely not how it feels.
Glad Cameron’s just tied in ID cards with saving money.
312. Rod. Didnt Blair do one before Iraq?
312. Don’t know Rod - Obama has been having loads of them.
I’m pretty sure Blair addressed the nation in March 2003, on the eve of Iraq - the famous “we don’t do God” broadcast. I don’t remember any other Blair broadcasts but perhaps someone can correct me.
Madasafish - incidentally, I was greatly cheered by your moniker when you first started posting. It was a phrase I used to use a lot, possibly inspired by a review of a Prince album in Select magazine in 1993. I’d love to think that that’s where you got it from too, but I doubt life is ever that neat.
302 - ah the old jokes are the best!
.
.
Mark [286]- This Liberal Democrat is concerned that our MPs were not perfect and helped themselves under “the rules”. Whereas normally I would be pleased to referred to as one of the three main parties - today it doesnt sound so good.
We do need someone to take a grip and try and re-establish parliament as a place we can look up to. Dont tell me that Cameron has done that - getting people to pay back fraudulent claims or sacking an advisor but letting him stay as an MP is as bad as Brown.
Nick Clegg hasn’t been much better but this proposal is at least a start:
Letter to Gordon Brown and David Cameron,
“This has been a terrible week for British politics. Days of revelations about expenses claims have caused immense damage to the standing of all MPs and Parliament itself. It is now vital that we act as swiftly as possible to draw a line under these events, clean up the expenses system and begin to restore public confidence. I am writing to you in order to drive this forward.
You will know that I have come up with my own interim proposals: that MPs should return to the taxpayer that proportion of profit made on second homes which have been subsidised by the taxpayer. As I have said to both of you in private and in public, I firmly believe the only long term solution to this problem is to take MPs out of the property investment game altogether. That means we must adopt the Scottish system whereby only rent costs can be charged to the taxpayer, not mortgage costs. I will be writing to Sir Christopher Kelly to make this recommendation in the strongest possible terms.
We politicians have slugged this issue out over the course of several weeks and got nowhere. To my utmost regret, we have failed to achieve consensus on a solution that could be implemented immediately and people have lost so much trust in politicians that they would be unlikely to support anything we could agree on anyway.
That means Sir Christopher’s independent inquiry is now the only remaining option to clean up the system from top to toe. It must be accepted in full by MPs, without quibbling over details. I want all three of us to declare publicly and immediately that we will accept the report’s recommendations in full.
In normal times I would be very reluctant to suggest we adopt proposals we haven’t yet seen. But these are not normal times. Only by binding our hands in this way - removing the ability for Parliament to amend the Kelly recommendations line by line - will we have a chance of convincing the public that we are serious about serving them, rather than our own interests.
That is why I am asking for an urgent resolution of the House that will state clearly that when Sir Christopher’s recommendations are reported, they will be put before the House in their entirety and we will not seek to amend them in any way.
This is a time of crisis in our politics and it is no time to split hairs over the details. I believe it is vital that we make a clear statement to the public that we know things have to be done differently.
I propose that such a motion is tabled in the name of all three party leaders - to demonstrate our unity of purpose on this issue - and is put to the House at the earliest possible opportunity and certainly before the Whitsun recess.” Nick Clegg
312 Rod - Surely Brown has just done one? Admittedly the medium has been updated: YouTube is the new BBC.
322 Richard Nabavi.”Surely Brown has just done one !”
Is that BREAKING NEWS ?
Russell, No - reason is death of Labour councillor Jimmy Hulme. Barton by-election is a also due to death of sitting councillor. (h/t Boothroyd’s blog).
294: I am sure the PM could ring up any TV station any time he wants to, to address the nation. Brown’s problem is that he does not know what to do or say.
In the firestorm of recent events I asked to little avail whether any PBer had any useful info on general election prospects in Wallasey. I’ll try again …. pretty please ??
.
.
Tabbers - you ask Sean “Are you working on a sequel?” Does Benedict still have a blog? Is Jack a Jacobite?
What are you doing here on a Friday? I hope you haven’t been Decimated by BT.
BBC radio reporting a statement from julie Kirkbride that “She has done nothing wrong, but her husband has questions to answer”
He’ll be in the second dog house.
326 Jack W.Is that Anna Neagle’s Seat ?
325 - Yes he does, or rather he thinks he does,
“I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE WRONG, IT STARTED IN AMERICA, IT IS A GLOBAL PROBLEM…”
over and over and over again
BBCNews 24. Stefan Shakespeare of YouGov: “We have several polls in the field right now”
What are the odds that Kenneth Clarke will appear before the European Elections?
http://tinyurl.com/wheresclarky
Anagram of the day:
HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT = SHAMEFUL OPERATIONS
328 - Poor Julie she does pick ‘em. First Stephen Milligan….
329 URW.
…. nearly it’s Angela Eagle !!
325. Yes, that’s certainly an issue. Given Mike’s theory about Cameron, it’s possible that Cameron might try a similar approach to Obama when in office.
I’d suggest two structural factors which shape the frequency of prime ministerial or presidential broadcasts:
(1) The cohesiveness of the government’s majority. US presidents traditionally appeal to the people as a means of (indirectly) influencing Congress. In a hung Parliament (eg Canada last Nov-Dec) prime ministerial addresses are valuable for trying to influence popular opinion and keep the government in office. PMs with majority governments have less need of this.
(2) Government economic management. In a managed economy prime ministerial broadcasts are often needed to explain decisions - eg devaluation or Black Wednesday (though I can’t remember whether Major broadcast). Now that economic fluctuations tend not to be presented as national emergencies, there’s less need for broadcasts.
326. It’s in Merseyside - Labour’s English redoubt. Would be a shock if it went blue.
321 Icarus, I see Nick Clegg has the Gordon Brown view of consensus politics and action. Stamp your feet about your own proposal but leave everything to someone else to do.
David Cameron has imposed on his party and MPs an strict set of rules and banned all expense claims except interest/rent & council tax. He has put in place a party committee to look at Conservative MPs claims and said that if MPs do not follow what that committee says then they will lose the whip and thus be de-selected.
He isn’t waiting for anyone else to act.
Mr Clegg has taken no action as far as can be ascertained on Lord Rennard, he hasn’t told his MPs (and himself) to stop claiming mortgage interest relief, food and other expenses. He’s trying to grandstand but isn’t doing that well.
327 - I’m pleased to see that you can use “decimate” properly
I’m widing down in one role and moving to another shortly.
Re Sean’s sequel - fair play to the lad he done a good first thriller.
If every MP claimed the maximum £24,000 - and they do not - it would still be £16M in total. Hardly a Gulf War. I’m bored with the expenses “scandal”. But, the system needs upheaval, but many have been named by the Telegraph - 60 MP = 10%?
There are there that should be in the news - heard of the economy, Sri Lanks, Pakistan…
I don’t really see this seeing at rhe Euro / locals. Labour were always going to do appallingly.
Anyway, I expand in my blog, which was aided by 2 pints of beer this lunch time.
336. Went Independent during the war, of course… old chap called Reakes. Almost held it in 1945, with Labour in an unusually poor third place.
I would have thought that after last night the LibDems might have learnt that they can no longer assume the moral high ground is theirs. If the penny doesn’t drop soon they will suffer badly.
By the way Guido’s picture seems right out of Downfall although it is much more recent. It does show the real character shining through.
http://www.order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/triple_flippers.gif
333 - The only way it could get worse for Julie Kirkbride would be to go on Celebrity Wife Swap and meet Mary Archer in the green room.
311 S&S
It’s a disaster for Parliament. To what degree it is a disaster for Brown is a matter that will become clearer as the dust settles.
There’s simply too much ordure flying around at the moment. “we can’t see the scumbags for the s**t”
337 - apropos of food claims on expenses. Most businesses (and indeed my own) allow this where someone is put out of pocket (such as staying away from home or travelling early) such that they are forced to spend money they wouldn’t usually. For example, having to dine in a restaurant rather than cook one’s own dinner.
That said, if you have a flat presumably you can cook your own food.
288 “I think we’re now down to two or perhaps three candidates, are we not? Johnson, Harman and perhaps D. Miliband. Johnson must now be favourite by a long way, given Harman’s pretty unambiguous comments, and D. Miliband doesn’t seem to impress anyone.”>/I>
Richard - would you totally discount Ed Miliband? After all his brother had his chance last year and fluffed it?
I agree with you that post the GE, all bets are off - I’d certainly include Denham and Cruddas should they hold their seats.
Interesting to see that Ladbrokes’ odds on the Speaker leaving office by end May continue to shorten and are now 1.75/1, compared with their opening price of 3/1.
O/T I’ve just loaded IE 8, seems quite a lot quicker, anyone agree?
Just got round to watching Question Time, almost felt sorry for Ming Campbell, he did wrong but nothing on the scale of Hoon or Darling. Would have been fascinating if The Telegraph hadn’t gone with Cabinet Ministers on Day 1. With the apparent mounting anger amongst voters could Blears, Darling, Hoon, Milliband et al have survived if details had been released on Day 8, when Junior Ministers heads are starting to roll.
There’s something odd about the Shahid Malik case that has, as far as I am aware gone unremarked.
The TRelegrpah reported that “Mr bMalik bought
344. Yes - the existence of a home allowance AND a food allowance seems hard to justify.
345 PfP - I certainly wouldn’t discount Ed M’s prospects after the election, but I’d have thought he’s too junior to leapfrog over all the others straight into the PM slot, especially now.
Having said all that, I still think Brown is probably here to stay.
Shadow Cabinet started publishing expenses online.
334 JackW.We may proceed.I christened her Anna Neagle and it stuck !
Back in 1992 I was living in New Brighton(the perfect spot to alight on).
Among my friends were a few Labour activists of the neo-militant tendency.They hated Frank Field (Birkenhead) and their campaigning was half-hearted because they felt that Labour was moving too far towards the centre ground.
Nonetheless hopes were high for Labour to WIN the Seat from the Tories but a few days before the contest I encountered another Labour activist on the ground.She was downcast.
Fast forward to 1996 and another friend was the agent for the prospective N.Brighton Labour candidate and also the coach of ‘St Peter St.Pauls’ a local team of twelve year olds who were to play on the newly opened Tower Grounds…..opened by Angela Eagle.
Before the game began she took a penalty and almost broke the net.
The rest is history and AE went on to win and hold the Seat for Labour.
Fast forward to the present day and George the coach is totally disillusioned with NuLab and Angela Eagle.
Even worse,he lost a leg and is now an internet ever-present like me.I no longer live in N.Brighton but will take soundings.
Wallassey is natural Tory territory and would look at a big price their regaining the Seat.
326 - Jack, Eagle will probably hold on even in a political earthquake in Wallasey, this being more in the way of an outer suburb of Liverpool that Wirral proper in its voting behaviour these days.
It doesn’t help that the local Tories are not well organised, although they don’t fight like cats in a sack like the neighbouring Wirral West Tories.
348. ?????
351 fitaloon - Wow, that is impressive.
You have to hand it to young Cameron - he gets things happening, fast.
There’s something odd about the Shahid Malik case that has, as far as I am aware gone unremarked.
The Telegraph reported that “Mr Malik bought a home in Peckham in 2001 for £85000 - four years before he became an MP”
Is that really likely? Only £85,000 in Peckham? Is it a shit hole or was there some other reason it was so cheap?
Then there’s the question why he was allowed to designate it as a second home since he was already living there before the requirement as a Minister, according to both Geoff Hoon and Yvette Cooper, that Ministers live in London, “according to the rules”.
Since he was already living in London at what was clearly in residence terms his primary home, in ministerial terms his primary home and work terms (the one he spent most time in) his primary home how on earth could a £100 rented place in Dewsbury be anything other than a second home for the time he was on constituency duty?
nick Palmer a couple of days ago you told us that Whips had not encouraged Labour MPs to spend, spend, spend, but today Iain Dale reports that Ken LIvingstone says that is exactly what they did. Encouraged individually and at a party meeting called to tell people to claim.
Were you so totally out of the loop you were not invited or is Ken or Iain telling porkies?
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/05/ken-livingstone-labour-whips-officially.html
326/352.Jack W.I just composed a very long reply which again got shredded.
Mike Smithson if you are reading I am in near despair over this.My prose style is lurid but I don’t say ‘poo’ or ‘wee-wee’ yet my long posts rarely get through.It is a great source of frustration.
347 Chris - I was surprised that Ming agreed to appear on QT - it was clear that his interior design claims would heavily criticised and he was poor at defending himself, saying that what was acceptable then is no longer acceptable, hence he had repaid the amount involved - weak, weak, weak! In failing adequately to answer the critical chants from the audience, in those two minutes he blew any chance of becoming Speaker imho and then to round things off he appeared to be on the point of weeping in full view - oh dear.
351 - fitaloon
Looks like Cameron is on a variable mortgage. If the figure in that link is a monthly one, his mortgage interest has nearly halved. Or am I missing something?
New picture of Sleaze MP troughing!
http://tinyurl.com/quzlls
346. Why is Peter from Putney allowed to type in “special print”?
Is this part of his platinum subsciption to PB.com? Gets to be “first” on new threads at least once a week and also is allowed to type in “special print”.
I might sign up for this service. Are there any other perks?
Interesting. Hague is to end his outside interests:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2009/05/hague-to-end-his-outside-interests.html
354 Along with what he said in Perth today about no flipping etc it will add to the fact that Gordon is still limping along trying to work off an old list of what to do in times of crisis.
Tabman, thanks for reading - and enjoying - my book. Gratifying.
A few people have guessed that the character Rob is based on me, and I suppose he is, in a way. But I put at least an equal amount of my character into the psychotic villain, Jamie Cloncurry. He’s me after six pints and a half gram of speed.
Though I have never “blood eagled” a gay Cambridge historian. Yet.
There is a sequel coming down the line. The Blood of Cain.
You have to say it in a deep growling bass baritone: The BLOOD of CAIN, By Tom KNOX. If it was any more masculine it would have cullions.
It’s all about the Nazis and the Basques and the Cagots and the Basters of Namibia and the Biblical Doctrine of the Serpent Seed.
There are, you may be unsurprised to hear, a couple of gruesome scenes.
Out next Feb, probably.
356. You must remember that Nick doesnt even have other MPs numbers on his phone, and this is the only way he is able to make communications when he is back in the olde lands of Middle Broxtowe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LGJ7evrAg
New Tory PPB available here
359 - Maybe although equally he may have moved onto a new but lower fixed rate deal, or paid off a lump sum etc. Need a few more months to make a guess.
357 URW - this is most odd, especially as it seems to be happening to you on a daily basis - it can’t be anything in your own box of tricks, surely?
Maybe, were Mike able to post up one of your “offending” items, the combined brains of PB could try to identify exactly which word(s) are troubling the spam filter.
After a 2010 election perhaps it’s more about who’s still left in parliament to replace Brown rather than who would be good for the job. Perhaps that’s his plan. If he gets them down to 10-15 seats it’ll be a contest between him, John Reid and the speaker… He might hang on!
362. Tim’s head will explode if he reads that.
Gaz I am becoming a little concerned for Nick Palmer. No colleague numbers to call, no invitation to a meeting about extra dosh in the pocket, no negative reactions while canvassing.
What does it mean?
Perhaps he could answer my post and tell us about the meeting called by the whips as a starter.
Don’t know if anyone has come across this, but the Election Prediction Project (a Canadian exercise that has run for several years) is running a prediction for the next UK general election.
http://www.electionprediction.org/2009_uk/index.php
So far it’s a very rudimentary version of Anthony Wells’ site, but it does aim at prediction in a way that Wells’ does not, so I thought I’d flag it up. I’m sure they’d be glad of some expert comments from PBers, though I wouldn’t recommend it for Mike’s blogroll as things stand.
350. Ed Milipede also seems to have early-onset “Timms-itis”
362 - It was commented on last night.
He won’t be the only one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1181834/Fallon-accused-conflict-City-connections.html
355. GeoffH. Hmm. Interesting one.
Here is a link for house prices in Peckham.
http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_report.htm?location=peckham&all=1
I’m gobsmacked. £85K wouldnt even buy you a flat in Peckham in 2001.
In 2000, detached houses sold for a median price of 262K, semis for 237K, terraced for 170K and flats for 130K. (Averages were higher).
274. Ken possibly because he comes across as a tw*t of the first order.
368 PfP.
I had a tendency to use words which refer to card and casino games and words like Rec Iprocal but have learnt about those.
Also I have an annoying tendency to use CAPITAL LETTERS.
re 319 didn’t he do one post Diana as well?
366 - it is quite an impressive PEB
372. It uses Electoral Calculus for its notionals. Forget it…
361 stjohn et al - Oops, sorry about that, forgot to close the italics there, I know it’s annoying. I promise I wasn’t attempting to impersonate Scott P!
Just watched the Tory PPB. Pretty good. It’ll repair some damage but some people will still be irked by council tax etc being paid on expenses. However, the comparison with Brown’s feeble mimickry and the Labour PPB is stark.
I suspect that Sir menzies is so used to his billing as foreign affairs expert, national icon, reverential questions on the Today programme that he expected the QT audience to be the same.
The look on his face shows how utterly surprised that he was.
I think QT should book Wembley Stadium and press gang Blears, Hogg and the man from St Ives. That would be the modern day equivalent of an auto da fe.
366 - That is a very good PEB!
377 URW - well at least you’re not forever using italics like yours truly!
375. Surely Mr Malik hasnt been laundering cash through property purchases now? It would be awful to live up to such a stereotype. Especially since his best friend he rented the house off back in his constituency did just that.
How does a House Speaker behave when she’s caught in a lie and has to try to deflect real questions about it? Well, here’s a colorful illustration:
“Pelosi was out of sorts as she met reporters in her ceremonial office yesterday. “I want to read a statement, because I need to take the time out to do this,” she said awkwardly, fishing around for the papers before her. “So bear with me for a moment, because it’ll be shorter if I read it. But I am, again, in the — in the busy schedule that we have, I think it’s important to take the time to read this to you.”
Carefully, she read that “those briefing me in September 2002 gave me inaccurate and incomplete information” about waterboarding. She admitted that an aide had been briefed a few months later, but then she moved to her fallback argument: It didn’t matter if she was told about waterboarding, because “it was clear we had to change the leadership in Congress and in the White House.”
NBC’s Mike Viqueira was the first questioner. He asked if she had been “complicit” in the use of techniques such as waterboarding because her aide had been told that such techniques were in use.
“My statement is clear, and let me read it again. Let me read it again,” she said. She looked for her statement. “I’m sorry, I have to find the page,” she said. She read a few lines, then paused. “I’m sorry, I had the pages out of order.” By now she had begun to employ her hands in the conversation, raising an index finger, circling her hands and finally moving both hands as if conducting an orchestra.
…
“As more skeptical questions were shouted, Pelosi opened her eyes wide. She licked her lips. She chopped the air with her hand and moved her arm like a windshield wiper. She swallowed hard. She used both hands to clear her hair from her face as she fired off pleas that “I wasn’t briefed,” “I wasn’t informed” and “They misled us.”
“That’s it — we’re done!” a Pelosi aide said as the reporters continued to shout questions. Finally, in a burst of sideways energy and with the help of her aides, the speaker crab-walked out of the room”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/14/AR2009051403991.html?hpid=topnews
re 371 Witan he won’t, he’s in Paris, telling them all about the delights of ID cards.
I should add in these times that it’s paid for by the French.
376 M
He’s masked by the glare from his father’s shining party credentials.
383 - spot on regarding Ming. Was a problem when he was leader.
383. Vince cable as well!
He asked for more money on his expenses! Hence the Oliver Twist interpetation!
Vince = Greedy!
345 Tabman
- not all parts of the company you work for accept expense claims for meals any longer
Thrift is the new motto , Cameron is in line with the zeitgeist.
362 Morris dancer - Nothing surprising about that. Hague and the others will have their hands more than full when they are ministers, so of course they’ll be winding down their outside occupations over the next few months in anticipation of that.
No doubt we’ll hear about it every five minutes from tim for the next few weeks, but it’s really a non-story.
390, by the way, hope you’re doing well health-wise, SBS
369. Omnium - I keep planning to write an article on resignations of losing party leaders. (R=resigned, S=survived)
Ponder the following:
2005 Howard R
2001 Hague R
1997 Major R
1992 Kinnock R
1987 Kinnock S
1983 Foot R
1979 Callaghan S (for a bit)
1974 Heath (pushed out fairly promptly after the October election)
1970 Wilson S
1966 Heath S
1964 Douglas-Home R
1959 Gaitskell S
1955 Attlee R
1951 Attlee S
1950 Churchill S
1945 Churchill S
In historical terms, the recent run of losing leaders resigning almost immediately upon defeat is very exceptional. I think Michael Foot probably started it. That said I see no way in which Brown can survive the election of a majority Conservative government, even one with a small majority.
386. Gaz. The issue is that 85K is absurdly low for a house in Peckham. It would have to be a wreck or he got some special deal.
386 Gaz and 375 Ken.
There are just 10 S Maliks listed in Peckham on BT.Com Directories. Now which one is the good, temporarily suspended minister?
None listed for Shahid Malik on the Electoral Roll (according to 192.com)
Aren’t investigative journalists supposed to do this sort of thing?
Fast forward to 1996 and another friend was the agent for the prospective N.Brighton Labour candidate and also the coach of ‘St Peter St.Pauls’ a local team of twelve year olds who were to play on the newly opened Tower Grounds…..opened by Angela Eagle.
Before the game began she took a penalty and almost broke the net.
The rest is history and AE went on to win and hold the Seat for Labour.
Fast forward to the present day and George the coach is totally disillusioned with NuLab and Angela Eagle.
Even worse,he lost a leg and is now an internet ever-present like me.I no longer live in N.Brighton but will take soundings.
Wallassey is natural Tory territory and would look at a big price their winning the Seat.
395 - I think modern politics is like that, I don’t see it as likely that any PM in the future will serve non-consecutive periods in office like Wilson.
398, it coincides though with the advent of longterm governments. It’s not like immediately after the war where changes of government were pretty frequent.
Well what a welcome afternoons canvassing we have had, and what a relief.
Last weekend due to a wedding I didn’t go out so have not had an opportunity to take the temperature out on the streets of Torbay since the expenses scandal kicked off. Like everyone else I have been so uncertain how the mood would affect people on the doorstep.
I have to say I am massively reassured, most people volunteered a comment of course, all of it aimed at either the sitting MP or Labour front benchers, and all of it vitriolic.
I would say that this scandal has strengthened our position in Torbay substantially. We have just done a street that is not ‘one of ours’ and in house ofter house that were down as ‘against’ last time we have been reassured, welcomed and applauded in various measure for the stance David Cameron has taken nationally (and I have taken locally) on expenses and dealing with the bad eggs in every political party basket. Not a single voter prepared to tell us they would vote Labour and only one said ‘no-one’ a handful of ‘not made up my mind yet’ (code for ‘voting for the other guy’) and the rest were happy, and I mean *happy* to tell us we had their vote.
In fact I’d say they are gleefully looking forward to the day they can sack the MP/Government/Gordon Brown. Terms like ‘bring it on’ ‘oh yes- I can’t wait’ ‘never normally vote but you can bet I will be next time’ and many more of the same.
I’d say 22% for Labour is generous - and the drop in our support nationally measured in these latest polls must be contained to seats where we already have an MP. If my experience is anything to go by this afternoon we will boost our share significantly in marginals.
I can honestly say that in my seven years of campaigning as PPC in Torbay I have never felt more confident.
I note that my long,boring betting post got through at 289 .It really is boring !
As for Wallassey it is far from being prime Labour territory and I would describe it as ‘mixed’.
Angela Eagle is 94………
Well what a welcome afternoons canvassing we have had, and what a relief.
Last weekend due to a wedding I didn’t go out so have not had an opportunity to take the temperature out on the streets of Torbay since the expenses scandal kicked off. Like everyone else I have been so uncertain how the mood would affect people on the doorstep.
I have to say I am massively reassured, most people volunteered a comment of course, all of it aimed at either the sitting MP or Labour front benchers, and all of it vitriolic.
I would say that this scandal has strengthened our position in Torbay substantially. We have just done a street that is not ‘one of ours’ and in house ofter house that were down as ‘against’ last time we have been reassured, welcomed and applauded in various measure for the stance David Cameron has taken nationally (and I have taken locally) on expenses and dealing with the bad eggs in every political party basket. Not a single voter prepared to tell us they would vote Labour and only one said ‘no-one’ a handful of ‘not made up my mind yet’ (code for ‘voting for the other guy’) and the rest were happy, and I mean *happy* to tell us we had their vote.
In fact I’d say they are gleefully looking forward to the day they can sack the MP/Government/Gordon Brown. Terms like ‘bring it on’ ‘oh yes- I can’t wait’ ‘never normally vote but you can bet I will be next time’ and many more of the same.
I’d say 22% for Labour is generous - and the drop in our support nationally measured in these latest polls must be contained to seats where we already have an MP. If my experience is anything to go by this afternoon we will boost our share significantly in marginals.
I can honestly say that in my seven years of campaigning as PPC in Torbay I have never felt more confident.
Sorry for the double post folks…
364 - Sean, I’m even more impressed that you managed to write the novel given the amount of time you spend on here!
Suffice to say some of Cloncurry’s more exotic meanderings did remind me a little of you in full flight. But I’m too nice to say so. Looking forward to Part Deux. I was educated by much of the historical/archaeological/religious material you put in the novel. Did you enjoy doing the research? And did you attend a disection to get the sights and smells right?
399 - I don’t think they were, we had 6 years, 13 year, 6 years, then a choppy period in the mid 70’s followed by 18, 7, and 12 years and counting. The post war period is nothing like the pre-war period when governments lasted months and there was an election in each of 1922, 23, and 24.
400.
Wonderful news - keep up the good work !
URW Is that a Freudian slip - “PANTY SEATS LINE”?????
400. Good - Sounds like the LD’s are toast!
I wonder if the LD’s will still whine on about incumabncy saving them!
The LD’s are doing badly on relative Percentage of the vote to Tories and now the incumabncy issue could work against them when LD’s such as Cable, Huhne and Ming have been nobled as “Expense Greed” victims!
URW Is that a Freudian slip - “P@NTY SEATS LINE”?????
400, good news but don’t get over-confident. There’s always the chance of a 1992 result, and complacency will stop you kicking the Government as hard as you would otherwise.
358. I couldn’t help remember the man’s fight against cancer. After finally making it to the top of his party he was knifed by colleagues, and I agree if this Parliament votes for the next Speaker I could have imagined many Labour MPs feeling unable to vote for a Tory would instead have voted for him. All political careers end in failure I suppose.
400. Good to hear Marcus. Must say we’re finding it hard to find Labour voters in marginal and currently Labour held Council divisions. Think I’ve spoken to 4 Labour households out of a couple of hundred in the last couple of weeks. Shy socialist syndrome.
So Fallon attacks Myners for his failure to stop Sir Freds pension rip off and we have Labour smearing Fallon through the Daily mail which Tim keeps posting…. Yes how dare a Select Committee point out that Myners was asleep on the job?
Damien Mcpoison lives on in Labour.
R5 going round Dewesbury and saying nearly all the 15 people (huge sample) they spoke with were looking at UKIP as a protest vote against the big parties.
408 Sunil.Some of my posts are so tedious I have to slip one in(Freudian or not) now and again to see if anyone is paying attention.
395. I too can’t imagine there’s any way that Brown could survive. Post the election I suspect that some of the current ministers may come out and say how awful he is. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if he tried to hang on, but no doubt he’ll be forced out in short order. (I’ve backed a jul-sep10 exit date for him in fact). It will certainly be quite interesting to see who does emerge as many of the front runners look pretty damaged these days and with a much diminished group of MPs anyway it’ll be a thin pack to choose from.
320
Cookie
Madasafish was the name of my first ISP : prosaic I am afraid.
400
Marcus
I am glad things went well but that is the kind of post Tim will keep and throw in your face if you lose.
395 Foot resigned because of the comprehensiveness of the defeat, as did Major, then Hague and Howard. Churchill survived 45 because no Tory was going to say he was a failure as a leader.
Cameron would have survived an October 07 defeat provided he had made progress in seats and vote share (and likely then Brown would have had a really small majority or minority Government). Kinnock gave hope in 87 of progress, he had to go after 92 because it didn’t happen.
GeoffH, Gaz, etc.
If you look at http://www.mouseprice.com you will see several transactions in the Peckham area for around 85,000 in 2001, but they are Leasehold, not Freehold, and they are at the lower end of the market.
URW - I tried posting my 408 with the “A” rather than a “@” and it didn’t seem to upload! Could that be the reason yours didn’t get through first time?
415- So you’re convinced there will also be a late summer/early autumn election?
403. Don’t be sorry Marcus, it was so encouraging that I enjoyed reading it twice.
I’ve also just watched Labour’s PPB for the first time. Honestly, after 12 years in Government is that the best they can come up with for why people should vote for them? It’s no wonder Labour MPs and activists are so low in morale.
404. The research is the best bit. Great fun.
Though a lot of the details I knew already - cause I have spent half a life wandering the weirder places of the world, getting into scrapes, and I guess I have, en route, picked up a lot of arcane info and general atmospherics.
These go into the mix.
BTW The BBC are hoping to do a documentary *based* on the book - it will be broadcast later this year or early next year (IF it gets made). I will keep pb posted, even if you don’t want me to.
And now I’m signing off for the week. Well, til later, anyway. Ciaociao.
420. I think he’ll hang on as long as possible. Partly because I think that’s the sort of man he is and partly because the electoral picture will be so unappealing every time he thinks of calling the election. I think something like june 4th is the last possible date. I then think he’ll probably not simply resign, and that the change of leader will come at the party conference. (Even if he does resign the official change will probably come then anyway). So all in all I figured that jul-sep was a reasonably likely outcome.
Oops looks like another of Labours sneers is no longer going to be usable:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3621606/hague-to-give-up-his-second-jobs.thtml
364 I enjoyed it too, although I did think the intestine-boiling scene was just a bit OTT.
419-Sunil.It looks like a fair cop,guv’.
Back to Wallasey.I think it could be quite volatile with a lot of swingers.
They were naturals for Blair in ‘97 but now I am not that sure.
Nadine Dorries attemps to spike her Telegraph story…
http://blog.dorries.org/Blogs/2009/May/15#15
(posted by PfP under an assumed name. maybe)
412 - Nobodys smearing Fallon, just pointing out that he could not do his job on the committee because of a conflict with his outside interests.
418 onevote.
So it was a shit hole. That much seems certain.
But then that raises another question. A shit hole that warranted a £7000odd Home Cinema system?
The mind boggles.
427 - Reading that last paragraph, it appears Nadine doesn’t have a main home.
“It’s the way he tells ‘em”
Frank Carson backs UKIP……
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8052555.stm
Well UKIPs rise to power is now ensured?
PaddyPower have a Speaker market up with some different names
Next permanent speaker? Hide
Singles Only. Others on request. Applies to the next permanent House of Commons speaker after Michael Martin.
Menzies Campbell 9/4
John Heppell 12/1
Richard Shepherd 20/1
Alan Haselhurst 3/1
Roger Gale 14/1
David Evennett 25/1
Sir George Young 6/1
Patrick Cormack 18/1
John Butterfill 25/1
Michael Lord 8/1
Tommy McAvoy 20/1
Andrew Miller 50/1
Kenneth Clarke 10/1
400 Wow Marcus, you sound confident, doubly confident in fact!
There’s no substitute for hearing it from the horse’s mouth and on the strength of that post, I’ve just placed a decent sized bet on you with that nice Mr Power at the not very nice odds of 0.4/1. Still a 40% return over one year is a darned better return than the Halifax will give me. Extending this line of thought, this could be a very busy time for Bookmakers.
An even greater certainty, unfortunately for our fellow PBer, is reflected by the measly odds of 1/6 PP are prepared to offer on the Tories winning Broxtowe. But then again, similar odds were probably available on Michael Portillo holding Enfield in 1997.
GEOFFH, GAZ, KEN etc
I’ve had a good look around SE15 postcode (Peckham) for terraced homes sold in 2001 for £85000. I can only find the following two.
http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=sold_prices_street_detail&street=WROXTON+ROAD&locality=SOUTHWARK&town=LONDON&cCode=EW&year=2001&house_style=T&house_age=All&search_radius=&outcode=SE15&incode=2BN
http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=sold_prices_street_detail&street=BRAYARDS+ROAD&locality=SOUTHWARK&town=LONDON&cCode=EW&year=2001&house_style=T&house_age=All&search_radius=&outcode=SE15&incode=2BQ
The first changed hands in August, the second in October and they are both very close to each other. Interestingly, they are a short walk to Jackboots sister’s home. Harriet is not that far away either.
In the second link, note the difference between the three properties on the same road in the same year. £35,000 plus.
Shahid Malik must have made a fortune on that little place.
ps, I live around the corner and may take a walk around there over the weekend.
I just watched the Conservative broadcast and came to the conclusion that Cameron looks like Kiko:
http://kiko.chaves.vilabol.uol.com.br/kiko1.jpg
http://impressoesdom.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/kiko2.jpg
I just watched the Conservative broadcast and came to the conclusion that Cameron looks like Kiko:
http:// kiko. chaves. vilabol. uol. com. br/kiko1.jpg
http://impressoesdom.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/kiko2.jpg
425. Curiously enough, that was the one scene that me and my agent were particularly keen to tone down - we also thought it went OTT (even though I wrote it). But the editors in the UK and America were adamant that it should stay as it is. And they won.
Who was right? I will never know….
Glad you enjoyed, despite the Innards Sequence. The next one is also violent, but without the slight air of cartoonishness (I hope).
427. Looks like Nadines in a bit of trouble there?
Reading the way the Telegraph write to MP’s, it is clear that their tone is bordering on bullying them in a way the IR would do over unpaid tax. Not sure Noddy Dorries responses in a similar manner was a good idea though.
I think she is going to have to explain where “somewhere else” is.
This is getting bizarre, I have just been skimming the threads, and another post of mine has now appeared at least 3 times???
Yet I only press the submit button once, and it came up immediately?
Any reason for this?
427 Sorry Scott, only pulling your leg!
I maybe wrong but is John Butterfill standing down. Sorry If I am wrong.
366 Cameron’s PPB: Its *all* about the jump/zoom cut at 4:20.
Cameron looking very prime ministerial (as I assume the idea was to do). I bet Gordo wished he could trade the likes of Sion Simon misses (supposedly there to stop the likes of the Nazi photos at tax payers expense) in for Team Cameron PR people!
Come the GE, and we get this stuff every night, what is Gordo going to do? Twirly Twirly? Hide and let Cameron keep pumping the PR out?
Trouble for Nadine Dorries.
Since then the only address on any of your files is your rented house in Bedford, on which you are claiming ACA. On this basis, we have reason to believe that you only live in one home and are therefore ineligible to claim an allowance for running a second home.
———
On the weekends I have free, and during the recess, I go somewhere else. I am not publishing the address. I gave it to my whip and emailed it to the fees office in 2008. I spend most of the holidays abroad, all of which can be confirmed.
No Main home.
Just a second home.
417 Cameron would survive defeat next year as well.
384 James, I agree, not only a cracking Election broadcast, but Cameron looks more Prime Ministerial every day. My wife who is not into politics in any shape or form has been extremely impressed by David Cameron, without any prompting from me. I see this as a very good sign. Well done DC and CCHQ.
Compare and contrast this broadcast to that by Labour which to me was utterly disgraceful
441. yes he is
427. There’s no point getting shirty, Nadine, with a journo. He just assumes that proves your guilt.
Your ‘explanation’ makes much of all the time you spend in the constituency and the constituency home. This, surely, must make it your primary home (the one in which you spend most time), and this would not be eligible for a second home allowance.
Holidays elsewhere and going “somewhere else” to an address your are unwilling disclose to the DT,even where they have given a guarantee not to publish simply will not do as evidence of a primary home.
You may very well be somewhere other than the constituency address but staying with a boyfriend/lover/friend/etc where you may not be liable for any expense will not do as evidence of a primary home - at least to the public, even if it may well satisfy the Fees Office.
Give it up, luv.
Mike Smithson may like to do a thread on the end of Nadine Dorries career…
448
Reading all that, I expect toasted Nadine soon…
I do so love the smell of napalm in the morning .. or afternoon.. or evening.
438 ‘Reading the way the Telegraph write to MP’s, it is clear that their tone is bordering on bullying them in a way the IR would do over unpaid tax.’
It wouldn’t come as much of a surprise were the The Telegraph to become embroiled in a number of legal disputes over this - I hope their legal team is up to scratch. Reporting is one thing, but the MPs named from all sides do deserve a fair right of reply.
So the Telegraph still churning out stories then?
“I do so love the smell of napalm in the morning .. or afternoon.. or evening.”
If it’s anything like the smell of melting ID cards, I’m all for it.
449 He’s too busy doing threads on the death of Labour, Tim….
446.
I think this is what Labour are really scared of. Cameron is so relaxed in front of the camera, I actually think he loves it! I think Blair was very good in his latter years as PM but Cameron’s better already. You wait and see he is going to be one of the best leaders this country has ever had. Boy do we need leadership right now !
John Betterfillmypockets would be a disastrous Speaker.
Yes he is standing down at the GE and his Conservative replacement is selected.
449 Maybe as part of a series to include those of Morley,Blears,Darling,McNulty,Malik and Straw?
444 I think you need to read it a bit closer Tim , you appear a bit dim. She is just not revealing where it is.
449. Will you enjoy Nadines downfall more than Jackos?
Nadine Dorries. Oh dear.
448 What if its a home she owns (presumably she got half of sale of matrimonial home) with a mortgage etc. Surely compared to a rental then the owned house is her main one?
Telegraph story was presumably “MP claims ACA but has only one home” - if she can prove that’s not the case then she is probably OK. Don’t like her use of CAPITALS though, highlight in bold perhaps but CAPITALS is sign of the type that writes outraged letters in green ink.
458 - Doesn’t matter where “it” is.
She claims she only goes there occasionally.
458 Cut poor old Tim some slack, though. He’s still in shock at Hague getting all serious and giving up any other jobs. Another sneer bites the dust…
448 Well, Ms Dorries doesn’t do oleaginous spin, that’s for sure!
450 Madasafish. Re Nadine.
I don’t doubt, from reading her explanation, that she’s sailed close to the wind if not actually transgressed but by playing the ‘ditzy blond’ in this, she’s not only done her self a serious disservice but called into question her suitability to be an MP.
Interesting to note the Dorries says the chandelier claim, wasn’t actually a chandelier. We know the “helipad” wasn’t a helipad. The tennis court, wasn’t the tennis court, it was main drain under the tennis court. The light bulbs were actually electrical work. The living in the private members club, was a few weeks while moving and actually saved the tax payer money. Did we ever find if Woolas come back and counter the counter claim about his nappies and comics? Even Gordo got it with his cleaning.
That isn’t defending the troughing MP’s, but Telegraph have definitely made sure they get a story on everybody they wanted by building some details up to the max.
And as I said before also, at the same time letting some of the worst offenders appear to escape in the crossfire and confusion, of outrage at somebody claiming a Kit-Kat.
Dorries hasn’t done herself any favours with that rather incoherent explanation.
462- “She claims she only goes there occasionally.”
That means not a main home? What exactly is the standard?
I seemed to be a minority few weeks ago talking about how I don’t rate Nadine Norris nearly as highly as some….seems to The Telegraph will target her tomorrow..
http://blog.dorries.org/blog.aspx
467 jsfl - True, but she came up with one good line regarding the possible minibar expenses:
“TO THINK THAT YOU COULD ACCUSE ME OF BEHAVING LIKE A JOURNALIST SHOCKS ME”
Nadine - curiouser and curiouser.
469 - She has targeted herself.
Nadine Assured Destruction.
471 It does look a bit odd
461 Ted,
Mortgage v rent is not the issue. Time is the factor which determines the primary residence (except for Ministers, according to Geoff Hoon and Yvette Cooper, who are ‘required to live in London’. Funny how that didn’t apply to Justice Minister, Shahid Malik) so where she spends the most time is her primary residence, and it seems from her blog, that that would be her constituency, albeit rented, home.
What happened to last nights “couples” edition? The Daily Rant seemed to do a piece about what we already know about CBeebies and Keen, I take it that the Telegraph aren’t doing the CBeebies now?
‘Doesn’t matter where “it” is’
Or, as Bill Clinton once said, “That depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is.”
Interesting that the Telegraph letter seems to be a boiler-plate job, and they’ve forgotten to remove a paragraph which looks as though it doesn’t apply to Ms Dorries at all:
We do not presently see the justification for all of these claims under the rules or spirit of the rules set out in the Parliamentary Green Book. These stipulate that enhancing property is not allowed and that purchases which are “extravagant or luxurious” should be avoided.
To which she replies:
What on earth are you talking about? Enhancing property?? Extravagant luxurious expenditure???
392 - I’ve rejected them myself!
436 - I found the Blood-Eagling scene worse, probably because its done from the victim’s POV.
443 - How come Cameron didn’t think these things were wrong, and, more importantly, seek to do something about them, before the Telegraph expose?
Bloke in a flat cap is going to stand against Malik in Dewsbury on behalf of a “new workers’ party”…
466. Oracle. Indeed there has been a strong odour of salacious misrepresentation by the Telegraph throughout. Still what comes around goes around.
When this does finally blow over I don’t see the Telegraph getting many tips or exclusives from a future Government whatever it’s colour. It just won’t be trusted while Porter and co are in charge.
Nadine blogged on May 8, 9 and 12 on this issue. TBH, she sounded worried.
Now we know why.
478 - because he isn’t psychic?
Looks as though Brown central have got their payback on Nadine Dorries.
What a shock coming out tomorrow and overshadowing DCs PEB.
Andrew Porter obviously thinks that its time for real retribution on the Tories.
479. All couples done today. Pages 8 & 9. #
A month ago these would have been front page, resignation-inducing stories but today, all they merit is page 8 & 9 and some limited curiosity.
*****FREE MONEY ALERT*****
BNP to win seat 4/9 (Ladbrokes)
BNP not to win a Seat 10/3 (William Hill)
Hope this helps.
484 - Found the CBeebies on the website, just the same as the likes as Darling, so they aren’t going anywhere, shame!
No sign of the (not so) lovely Wintertons on the interweb. Were they done too?
480 jsf: “There has been a strong odour of salacious misrepresentation by the Telegraph throughout”
Agreed, but nobody else would have done it differently. What’s more the MPs hit by stuff about chandeliers, helipads, moats etc all know this.
And so do the readers.
BBC have picked it up now.
News 24.
Nadine’s rebuttal is a bit ‘all over the shop’ isn’t it. Not looking too clever.
Shows we still haven’t finished this saga - how long can it go on…
Iain Dales a close friend of Dorries so i would expect something from him quite soon.
486. Wintertons? yes.
All old news, nothing new.
400 - Marcus, I take it that you will be accepting no expenses and giving all your wage to charity?
477. Richard Nabavi.
Having read the Telegraph’s alleged letter the tone seems extremely arrogant. Who the **** do they think they are? Setting themselves up as a self appointed Judge and Jury. We get enough of that from Brown and co but at least they are elected…..
Personally, whilst the Telegraph have provided a public service in breaking this story, increasingly they seem to be obsessed with their own self importance and need to be put back in their box.
No allegations or anything about Ms Dorries but shame Andrew McKay didn’t think to refer to a “somewhere else”….
491 - Oh god, so they could survive to sit in another parliament!
Dewsbury Labour party emergency meeting tonight….
490 - I wouldn’t as he is in transit.
Nadine’s a bit slow on adding comments. My post@448 is still not on her comments to her ‘rebuttal’.
If you’re going to blog and allow comments, you’ve got to be willing to be instant.
481 councilhousetory - Actually, although it looks bad from her ranting reply to the Telegraph, it’s interesting to note what she said on May 9th:
“My personal details, including credit card numbers, bank account details, home address, signatures, family details and IDs have all been sold to the Daily Telegraph, and who else? Terrorists, pro-abortion extreme groups, Al Queda, BNP?
…
I just want the basic right to keep my personal details private. That and not wanting to have to move house, which I now feel I will have to do.
We shall see!
First?
No.Unbelievable.
485 Richard Vernon , you are a very public-spirited person, sir.
487. GeoffH And? What’s your point?
Just as we should expect our politicians to behave with integrity should we not also expect journalists to do the same?
First!?
493 - It does seem a bit like that, except you are presumed guilty to start with.
I also think the fact that the Telegraph seem to ignore the responses and particular some of the more reasonable explanations is extremely worrying. For instance Gove the “flipper”, seemed to me like he had a decent case to argue, and categorising him in the same way as Darling, Hoon, CBeebies, Maude etc, definitely not. But it was like they had to have a story about Gove come what may, and a hotel bill and some furniture wasn’t enough for them.
Any sightings of Geoff Hoon, Alistair Darling or Jack Straw? Perhaps they have McCavity’s Syndrome in addition to Waldheim’s disease.
I still wonder about the brick through McKay’s window, how is it that no bricks have ended up through the windows of Cabinet ministers’ premises. Non story, or was it?
Beeb highlighting Younger Ross’s repayment of £4K for furniture.
479 Then let’s hope the election is soon, because the way things are going there will not be any “workers” in Dewsbury. “Unemployed Party” just doesn’t have the same ring, does it?
Glad to see the comeback of the flat cap, though.
493 The Telegraph are now in danger of losing many of the readers they’ve regained by running the expenses revelation stories, if they continue to pass judgement. Their circulation figures weren’t exactly on the up. Are the Barclay Brothers trying to pull off some kind of Coup d’Etat?
493 jsfl “Who the **** do they think they are? ”
The only people outside the Fees Office and the MPs themselves who are in possession of the claims and receipts.
What do you expect? “Is there anything you’d like to tell us PM/Minister/MP?” about nothing much at all in the classic style of the mid-1950s news interview with, I think Chris Chataway, reporter.
To which the answer was “No, I don’t think so.”
If anyone wants to watch last night’s QT on YouTube: Question Time May 14th
Sky: Scotland Yard making a move…
505 - The brick wasn’t through Mackays window.
It was through Kirbrides office window.
Which she declared as her residence.
Keep up.
504. Indeed it certainly seems like a ‘Kangaroo Court’.
510 - Damian Green had better watch out then.
How deep into the territory of Constitutional Crisis does this scandal go? Are we near to the point where HMQ advises pulling the the plug on Parliament?
Beeb Met and CPS to assess allegations next week…
Will it result in the same outcome as Abrahams and Alexander expenses?
BBC have got the Nadine Dorries story now.
Does that mean she’ll be all over the studios tonight?
If she hasn’t got a main home I presume having a second home for the purposes of claiming expenses is a straight case of fraud.
502 jsfl “Just as we should expect our politicians to behave with integrity should we not also expect journalists to do the same?”
The point? The DT has the story and is giving subjects the right to respond before publication. Nobody should expect any more.
One man’s hanging lamp can perfectly well be an other’s chandelier. I don’t see the problems.
502 Many Labour people agree with Mandelson that the Daily Telegraph is being used as a vehicle to destroy Labour, unfairly. Michael White made a comment that he didn’t trust the DTs versions of events as well.
On the Conservative side we don’t see any victimisation of Labour, the DT seemed to be revelling in the crimes of Lords Hailsham & Lothian, in swimming pools & moats, lawns & tennis courts.
Its been a plague on all your houses with little benefit offered to any accused. Of course the snouts have been troughing but if the DT had MPs responses before they published stories perhaps publishing those alongside might have been journalism rather than plain press sensationalism.
504 Oracle. There was plenty of dirt on Gove …. and I don’t mean horse cr*p :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5305434/Michael-Gove-flipped-homes-MPs-expenses.html
508 - No, but it is clear the Telegraph letters are fairly threatening. I would have hoped that their tone would be more like,
“we see from your receipts that you claimed e.g. a hotel stay. We would like to inform you that we will be printing this in the new future. We would like to give you the opportunity to reply if you feel it necessary, with an explanation and any contradictory evidence, before we report the claim(s) as stated.”
508. Well I’m glad for you that you are so accepting of such journalism. It’s little wonder we have the politicians we have with that attitude.
Oooh, what’s happened now??
*knits*
So many posts to read through these days . I don’t know if anyone has picked up that Conservatuve councillor for Dewsbury South Khizar Iqbal has resigned from the party as he intends to fight the GE as an Independent ,
When are we going to have an election then?
Is it possible that the great British public will just rise up and say ‘go now’ to the lot of them?
An income tax strike? Perhaps a petition from her loyal subjects to HM the Queen? Or an online poll by The Sun? a silent march on Parliament by thousands of citizens wearing pale blue T shirts?
Something has got to give, and the only way out of this that I can see satisfying the public mood is a fresh mandate for every MP.
519 - Yes, but the “flipped” bit is inaccurate, which is the main thrust of the story. That is what I was talking about. He isn’t a serial “flipper” in the way others have been, e.g Blears, 3 times + hotels in 1 year. He explained his move in the press, the reasons for it well in advance of this story, and it seemed fair enough to me.
As I said I am not defending the other stuff, but my point was it was as if the Telegraph didn’t think the goods claimed was enough to nail him as a trougher.
522 seanT. Don’t come on here with your knits !!
*Scratch*
523 Blimey! That’s two Independents in Dewsbury now! RodCrosby’s bloke in a flat cap and now this guy.
510 Sky move story. On whom?
519 Ted - No, I don’t think it is a partisan thing. The point surely is that (in all parties) there seem to be some really dodgy cases, but the Telegraph have mixed these up with others which are either trivial, perfectly OK, or for which the MP has a reasonable explanation.
523 - Ms Dorries has launched a Weapon of Nad Destruction against herself.
Meanwhile on planet Poll…
Regicide is now Labour’s only chance
Bullish, bungling Brown must go now, and allow Johnson time to make some pre-election reparations
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/15/brown-election
524. Marcus Wood.
Yesterday you said that a 2010 election was a certainty. Are you resiling from that position?
How likely now do you reckon that we will have a 2009 election?
517 - “One man’s hanging lamp can perfectly well be an other’s chandelier.”
Thats just bulls##t. Therefore, every room of my cheap weekday crash pad is furnished with chandeliers. Not sure, the public would class what I have hanging from the ceiling for lighting as a chandelier somehow.
532. Plus BNP. Winner gets 30% of the vote?
Listened to Salter MP Reading (Lab) on R4.
MPs in shock and tears and good ones at that… he was blunt (and all credit to him).. all those enriching themselves at expense of state to go: Ministers , Shadow Ministers the lot (I paraphrase)..
I do not know the guy at all or any details but he hit the right tone and words.
(No ACA claimed ).
I think about 50 of the worst offenders ON ALL SIDES need to be dewhipped starting with Alan Duncan.
Can someone explain how spending £1000s on your GARDEN is essential to the running of an MP? Answer: in no way it can be.
Duncan to go, Gove to go , all the troughers to go…
How decrepit is Anthony Howard ?
The solution to this crisis?
All three parties to open mandatory re-selection for sitting members…
541
In looks : very.
On Newsnight? Very alert,. no signs of decrepitude…
537 stjohn.Don’t want to start a wholesale panic but there have been recent monies for an H1 GE and definitely money against a 2010 GE.
541 - He must be about 80…
537. Not really, my post was tongue in cheek. What sitting MP is going to agree to an early election now?
And an intervention by HMQ - the only real way of dissolving Parliament early - would add a stupendous constitutional dispute on top of the crisis we already have.
No, much as I wish it were otherwise, May 2010 is nailed on.
542. Seriously?
547. My recommendation. The first party to agree will get big kudos…
540 Mad. Agreed. All the porkers to exit - Rennard, Gove, Duncan, Jackson, the Mackays, Malik, Moran and the rest !!
PORKERS OUT !!!!
“Gordon Brown’s last days - the worst of both Major and Callaghan”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6296035.ece
548 - I think you are right.
Currently I am a Buyer at £70 a Seat for Nats+Others+Men in White Suits+Man in Cloth Cap.
Looking good !
529 - If you want to sign the petition requesting Her Majesty to dissolve parliament, please go to
http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/27778.html
548. Ah, I see.
I have seen it discussed on ConHome, I think.
549 - Brown, Darling, Balls, Cooper, Blears, Straw, etc surely….so the government just left with Postman Pat and Millibrain in the cabinet then.
Westminster assembly = world’s laughing stock
Dearie, dearie, dearie, dearie, dearie me.
Rod Crosby at 542 The Conservatives - and I think all the parties- already have mandatory re-selection for MP’s but by this point in the cycle all of them will have been reselected.
In fact that is a real problem, because having been reselected it’s quite hard to deselect them.
Of course if some of these more blatantly shamed and damaged MP’s had a shred of loyalty to their party they would realise the damage they are doing by staying on and agree to step down anyway.
That’s a good idea Rod Crosby.
557 - Labour don’t have mandatory re-selection anymore from what I understand (that is what Livingstone said on DP, as he was complaining about Labour bed blockers and seats for life, not like in his day).
557. Time to reopen the hustings then, just for sitting members who are intent on standing again…
542 Rod. Agreed.
Lib Dem Richard Younger-Ross to repay £4,000 having apparently been profiled in tomorrows Telegraph…
http://www.thisisouthdevon.co.uk
536 regicide — how does getting rid of Gordon Brown help Labour?
It certainly won’t make the “MPs on the fiddle” stories go away.
562
Hmm, so we already know DT will be doing Dorries and now Younger-Ross.
Have to admit I’m enjoying this. The humbling of an entire class.
546 ‘And an intervention by HMQ - the only real way of dissolving Parliament early - would add a stupendous constitutional dispute on top of the crisis we already have.’
The Telegraph must have enough unused material to lob a grenade or two into the smoking crater of Parliament every day from now until May 2010. Parliament is effectively paralysed. Do you really think a GE can be left that long?
561 Jack, are you finally becoming a radical in your old age…or are you suddenly becoming younger?
560 Another idea is a maximum time in the House of Commons, say three or four parliaments, - it ends the idea of ‘career politicians’ and bed blockers and at a stroke increases the number of new members in every parliament.
Polly writing in the Guardian on how Alan Johnson can be the saviour.
564 - I’m not enjoying it at all. It is dispiriting, our politics ought to be better than this, and actually I believe it is better than how it is being portrayed.
I also wonder if Labour will try and get rid of the policy of all shadows having to be elected by the party if they lose the next GE? Seems a crazy policy to me, why have a leader if they can’t choose their “helpers”.
567 - I’m with Jed Bartlet on term limits, we have them they are called an election.
557. Reselection is automatic in my experience, it takes an awful lot to take a seat away from someone, even at a local government level.
It’s reassuring to know that taking us into an illegal war costing billions of pounds and thousands of lives caused next to no grief compared with this current scandal - involving thousands of pounds and a few shifty eyes!
Just received this statement from the Metropolitan Police on MPs expenses: MPS & CPS Statement re alleged misuse of expenses..
567. Won’t work. There would have been no Maggie Thatcher or Winston Churchill, for instance…
Mandatory re-selection (ideally every parliament, but as a matter of urgency NOW) is the way forward. There is plenty of time to do it before the GE…
567
That’s a good idea as well.
EDIT to add, but it should be more than two terms. Five?
Polly obviously not happy
Even after that calamity, at Tuesday’s political cabinet, with blood already on the highway, the prime minister’s indecision was terminal and fatal. I am told a leading cabinet minister gave him a strong and detailed expenses reform plan, with a script for presenting it. But it sat on his desk for many days. He couldn’t make up his mind, he was “reflecting” on it. Since nothing is proposed to cabinet without Brown’s prior support, the plan was never presented, the discussion was diffuse and nothing was resolved. But when Cameron announced his press conference for a few hours later, it was plain he had a plan of his own. So Harriet Harman was sent out in a hurry to present a plan the cabinet hadn’t discussed. Cameron triumphed:
575
Is there? GE could be very soon.
569 Perhaps, James, we need an article in the DT listing the very good Mps, or at least those who manage to get by on fairly modest expenses. There are rather a lot of them and it would redress the balance.
I have to admit I am suffering expense scandal fatigue. More stories of MP’s buying furniture, I don’t even know if I can be bothered to click the link anymore. Unless the Telegraph has a really big story, I’m not sure it makes any difference now to hear of more stretching of the rules (but still within them) for “non-essential” items.
578. If the LibDems have any sense they’d announce it tonight. It would be easiest for them to implement.
574 Does anyone have any faith in the Met and the CPS to draw a firm and fair conclusion? Their track records lead me to believe otherwise…
There should be a wholly independent review of the expenses scandal.
579 - Indeed. How many MP’s have featured 60? 70? that is what 10-15% of Parliament.
Iain Dales blogs on Nadine.
http://www.iaindale.blogspot.com/
There’s none so blind as those that can not see.
574 - I really think that prosecutions are the potential catharsis. As I said a few days ago (post #1 on the mysteriously excised thread), the perception that “they’re all at it” is bad, but what’s truly corrosive is that “it” is never punished, because everything was done “in good faith” and any “mistakes” were “unintentional”.
584 - So Fiddling Farmer Tupac, you got a guide dog or just the white cane?
Perhaps Political Betting contributors could form a coalition government in the meantime? What would we do in power? Eliminate all taxes on betting?
564 I think I am with you on that, C.H.T.
It’s a pity that a few innocent ones are going to get caught up in the crossfire, but that’s what happens in revolutions. From the explanations I heard, I would excuse Gove, and that Lib Dem (George?) who had the temerity to let his daughter live with him, but anyone else, who had gardening done, or organised their affairs to ensure tax-free capital gains, is fair game as far as I am concerned.
As has been said here more eloquently in the past, this is nothing to do with HoC Rules - it’s to do with MP’s judgement, and some of these people have shown that theirs is flawed.
Kick the bums out!
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3621916/keep-reading-the-brooks-david.thtml
Brown is not personally to blame for the flawed expenses system but his inability to respond to it effectively is damning. Toynbee’s article refers to this.
He should have sat down with Cameron and Clegg and brokered a cross party response to the crisis to assuage public anger.
Such an approach is beyond his ken though.
580. The trouble is that there are probably another 150 MPs at least who potentially could have questions asked of them (those who have claimed large amounts on their ACA allowance).
That’s the key point. The primary issue is the system and those in charge who have allowed the system to remain the same for so long and have allowed MPs to control their own remuneration.
I’d also be interested to know how the Telegraph have ’selected’ their victims.
Sky News - Joey Jones Barely able to contain his smile at poor Nadines situation.
591 - Brogan admitted they were selecting people for investigation. He said with over a million receipts nearly impossible to get through all of them.
I reckon they have doing all the high profile names, then some that journos think could be dodgy / fit a story e.g “lord of the manor day”.
Telegraph presses on regardless against Dorries..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5330904/MPs-expenses-Tory-MP-Nadine-Dorries-admits-she-only-spends-weekends-and-holidays-in-her-main-home.html
Is nobody else bothered that such outrage is caused by a few blokes claiming some small thousands, and not the thousands of deaths in Iraq and the billions wasted on wars Id Cards NHS computers etc etc etc
Thick as two short planks?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5330904/MPs-expenses-Tory-MP-Nadine-Dorries-admits-she-only-spends-weekends-and-holidays-in-her-main-home.html
569 The thing is, James B, some of us really want rather a lot of change in the way we are governed. And this mess looks like our chance to get it. We were never able to cut through the Gordian knot of vested interests, petty corruption, venality, and general self-interest that has governed Parliament for the last 50 years or so. Now is the time for us to demand serious constitutional change - and it looks like we might well get it!
Exciting times for radicals.
585. I think it’s disgusting how some of them are attempting to blame the fees office! (”Oh, I submitted these ridiculous claims but they did very little to stop me!”). Yes, you can blame the system a little but they should be looking a little harder at themselves rather than casting around for someone to blame. The fees office didn’t FORCE them to claim.
Malik was slimy - basically along the lines of “The fees office didn’t tell me there was a limit and I didn’t claim for manure and moats like all those evil Tories do…”
… Now, I don’t think there’s anything different to claiming for manure and claiming for a massage chair. Both are ridiculous in the extreme. And also, shouldn’t he have based his claims on his reasonable needs rather than trying to find out the limit and maxing it? Isn’t that what a moral parliamentarian would do?
Typical NuLab. Blame everyone but their own little corrupt selves.
588. You seem to be advocating ‘collateral damage’. How very ‘un Lib-dem’ of you.
A little bit of fun about expenses - if nothing else it made me 40 yrs younger
http://plato-says.blogspot.com/2009/05/mps-expenses-clangers-do-ed-yvette.html
Any Questions tonight could be ‘Parental Guidance’.
Sky have a reporter in Dewsbury and he seems to be talking to a Labour Party member masquarading as a ‘ordinary jo’.
537- Doesn’t a 2009 GE election argument boil down to a Brown departure argument? That is, if Brown is forced to go, or just throws up his hands and departs of his own accord, there is likely to be an election soon after, n’est-ce pas? If Brown hangs on, though, an early election is extremely unlikely.
597
I agree. Time for some radical changes.
With Gordon and M Martin there, no hope of any.
If I were the Telegraph, I’d keep going maybe 2-3 days a week.After all, we know the troughing sh1ts will not fess up or shell out any money until they are exposed.
I have zero pity for MPs: they made the rules, they were the high handed s.o.b.s who told us Parliament was supreme and they voted themselves more and more pork.
Tough.
How come Brown never learns by his mistakes? He had an expense plan, why didn’t he just go with it.?
I think if I was in government with him, I would just choke him to death and have done with it
Evening all! Well I’ve been happy today after today’s revelations about Peter and Iris Robinson who it was revealed claimed over £30K on food over the past 4 years despite neither of them being in Westminster more than 40% of the time. Peter claims it was no more than £73 a week, but that’s based on a 52 week year and Parliament doesn’t sit every week! I wonder what they were buying? They may well have had Evian coming out of the shower!
Any way here’s the Belfast Telegraph’s take on it complete with angry comments! Now where’s my popcorn?!
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/robinson-defends-pound30000-food-claim-14303697.html?startindex=0
598 - I agree, but the fees office do have questions to answer. In some cases they colluded with the individual MPs, for instance they told one 2 second homes on a temporary basis was fine and he could send bills for both. Huh, they should have told him to take a running jump. Or Hogg wanting to tax payer to pay for part of the housekeepers wages, again he had an written agreement with them, as they said oh that is like a cleaner init…a £14k a year cleaner! Again they should have told him, you want a housekeeper you pay for a housekeeper!
If only Malik was claiming for manure, he would be saving us a shed load of taxpayers money. A few bags of manure is bugger all compared to the troughing he has been doing from day one, literally he got his arse through the door and asked how much can I claim and off he went to max it out every single year.
599 jsfl, I am currently working 12 hour days, in order to pay the tax which goes to buying Chris Huhne a new trouser press. And last night, I saw Ming Campbell, an eminent Scottish QC, on TV telling the audience that he wanted an independent group to explain the difference between right and wrong.
Never mind crossfire - I am more interested in a full frontal assault on the whole Parliamentary establishment. If only we could vote by STV so that we could show some of these individuals what we REALLY think of them!
597 ‘Now is the time for us to demand serious constitutional change - and it looks like we might well get it! Exciting times for radicals.’
Much as I agree with you Mr Carp, I don’t think it’s going to happen. I do like the Swiss system of direct democracy -
‘Any citizen may challenge a law that has been passed by parliament. If that person is able to gather 50,000 signatures against the law within 100 days, a national vote has to be scheduled where voters decide by a simple majority whether to accept or reject the law.
Also, any citizen may seek a decision on an amendment they want to make to the constitution. For such an amendment initiative to be organised, the signatures of 100,000 voters must be collected within 18 months. Such a popular initiative may be formulated as a general proposal or - much more often - be put forward as a precise new text whose wording can no longer be changed by parliament and the government. After a successful vote gathering, the federal council may create a counterproposal to the proposed amendment and put it to vote on the same day. Such counterproposals are usually a compromise between the status quo and the wording of the initiative. Voters will again decide in a national vote whether to accept the initiative amendment, the counterproposal put forward by the government or both. If both are accepted, one has to additionally signal a preference. Initiatives have to be accepted by a double majority of both the popular votes and a majority of the cantons.’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland
597 - I’m not against radical change, the problem is where that goes.
606 £30,000 plus on food expenses in 4 years?!!! WTF.
608
Events like this make Multi member STV constituencies all the more attractive. MPs would simply resign, in the full knowledge they would be humiliated, not only by the opposition, but by their own party supporters voting for other party candidates.
I’m now in the MM-STV camp.
609 EdP, maybe we should give another thrust to the “Resign” petition on the No.10 website? There are about 58,000 signatures on it now, but it seems to have tailed off lately.
EdP 609. I was living in Zurich, when the Canton parliament voted themselves a pay increase. To teach them a lesson, the Swiss organised a petition and referendum proposing that they actually get LESS pay!
The referendum was passed by a huge majority, and the politicians were very red-faced.
I’ve placed a bet on Sylvia Heal to be the next Speaker of the House of Commons today. As the Deputy Speaker she could provide a managed transition in what would be extraordinary circumstances. Labour will want to get this sorted quickly and ideally choose someone from their own benches.
Ming Campbell has taken a blow after his expenses for a top interior designer (and his shaky QT performance last night and can’t have helped). That said Mike and others are still sitting on outstanding value tickets, but I think politics is getting more tribal again and Sylvia could be one person for Labour MPs to unite around. Paul Waugh at the Standard says that he’s hearing her name mentioned too.
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2009/05/i-support-the-office-of-the-speaker.html
Incidentally the Midlands Member for Halesowen and Rowley Regis has a majority of 4337 which would surely otherwise fall at the next election. Sylvia Heal is 7/1 with William Hills and I think that represents the best value selection in the current markets.
564 PtP. I’ve alaways been an old radical !!!
PORKERS OUT …. OUT OUT OUT.
607. Yes, they definitely do have questions to answer. They were falling over themselves to give MPs as much as they asked for. They are complicit in this and the Speaker should go.
I just like all these MPs who apparently have no independent will practically telling us they were marched to the fees office and forced to claim for massage chairs!
613 Are you suggesting I sign it again? TBH the Number 10 petitions are a waste of time. Nothing ever comes of them - it’s window dressing.
614 See! It works. Lets go Swiss.
606: But the people will still vote for them no matter what, or do you think things are changing in Northern Ireland.?
It would be great if they lost the next election.
612 Councilhousetory - you know it makes sense! What’s the point of mandatory reselection of, say, Douglas Hogg? If his local Tories give him the gig once more, no power on earth is going to shift him at the next General Election. But if he was on the same ballot with a few other, less greedy, Conservatives, then he would have a real fight on his hands.
615. Henry - “I’ve placed a bet on Sylvia Heal to be the next Speaker of the House of Commons today. ”
With whom?
Which bookie?
I am only aware of PP and Hills.
598. Numbertwelve. I disagree - From the Mail on Sunday:
Andrew Walker, who runs the Commons Fees Office responsible for MPs’ wages and expenses, told Speaker Michael Martin more than five years ago that he must act to curb excessive claims.
But Westminster sources say the Speaker told him not to meddle, and ‘punished’ him by refusing to speak
It is understood that Mr Walker felt he could be dismissed from his £125,000-a-year job as director general of resources at the Commons after issuing the warning.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1179937/The-Speakers-scapegoat-Official-signed-MPs-expenses-didnt-accountancy-qualification.html
Whether the fees office like it or not they are up to their necks in this as much as MPs and as much as Speaker Martin.
They cannot get away with a ‘Just following orders’ defence. They have been complicit in the misallocation of what potentially is millions of pounds of taxpayers money and just as the MPs and in particular the Speaker they should pay!
I mentioned STV around this time yesterday!
615. Money down the drain. She’s related to the Keens…
615 HGM.Good choice.What price ?
622 ‘They cannot get away with a ‘Just following orders’ defence. They have been complicit in the misallocation of what potentially is millions of pounds of taxpayers money and just as the MPs and in particular the Speaker they should pay!’
Surcharge the Speaker, and the officials in the Fees Office.
617 - My take on the ACA, is that following appears to be the way MP’s are told it works, by others:-
In the HoC club there has an unwritten agreement that the ACA is basically a “bonus” payment, to be claimed every year come what may. What you claim, don’t worry, just make sure you get receipts for some items / services that vaguely fit the rules and the Fees Office will make sure you get your money.
Be interesting to note how many of these claims appear in the last few months of the expenses year. I just have this vision of MP’s in a quiet moment totting up their ACA, finding it is short of the max and running to the shops to load up.
Julie Kirkbride’s window was broken last Saturday night.
Cameron’s election broadcast spot on. He gets it - Brown doesn’t.
611. Something to bear in mind about them is that Iris in particular, is extremely flash, she has a room in her house decorated in a theme for each season of the year. I doubt they bought any tins of Tescos Baked Beans in that!
619. It would give me no greater pleasure than to see them booted out, but the best we can hope for is that their majorities get slashed. The DUP does have a lot of evangelical christian support and this sort of thing will annoy them no end. Iris is so fond of quoting Leviticus in support of her rabid homophobia, obvious she doesn’t pay much attention to “I tell you solemnly, it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.”
A hypocrite of the highest order! Yesterday they were known as “The Swish Family Robinson,” now it’s “The Swiss Roll Family Robinson!”
620 - Augustus Carp
I’ve been coming round to the idea for some time. Initially I was sceptical of electoral reform as it was usually LDs frothing about pure PR. But MM-STV has a lot of merits.
The more I think about it the more sense it makes. I know lots of lazy MPs and I would like nothing better to stand against them AS A FELLOW CONSERVATIVE. Maybe then they would get of their arris’ and do what they are paid handsomely for.
I’m just watching Cameron’s performance in his PBB. I’m now worried. I’ve backed the Tories to win between 375-399 seats and I was hopeful of collecting but this bet is looking increasinly dodgy.
There is an increasing risk that “David Cameron’s Conservatives” will outperform even this level of success.
What Rod Crosby at 624 said. She’s no chance.
608. AC -
I am currently working 12 hour days, in order to pay the tax which goes to buying Chris Huhne a new trouser press. And last night, I saw Ming Campbell, an eminent Scottish QC, on TV telling the audience that he wanted an independent group to explain the difference between right and wrong.
Hang on a minute and I’ll get my violin. To be honest you sound exactly like Chris Huhne did on Sky the other day.
I am more interested in a full frontal assault on the whole Parliamentary establishment. If only we could vote by STV so that we could show some of these individuals what we REALLY think of them!
And those solutions are really going to help the country……….
605 Beating him to death, much more satisfactury.
As a LD you just got my vote Councilhousetory
632 stjohn.Whilst not endorsing your extremist views….ponder this.
If you are correct and Cameron gets more than 400 Seats there is an excellent chance that Labour will get fewer than 150.
Currently I make CON+LAB around 556.
609-Great idea!
For starters:
-bring back the rope
-criminalise same sех relations between consenting adults
-send them back
Of course some or all of these would get us chucked out of the EU, so would be a double plus!!
631. Indeed.
“Statistics show that more incumbent Fianna Fáil MPs lose their seat to a running-mate than to a candidate of another party.”
http://aceproject.org/ace-en/topics/es/esy/esy_ie/
Just updating my list of ammunition:
Margaret Beckett
Douglas[?] Hogg
Francis Maude
Andrew Lansley
Hazel Blears
Shahid Malik
Elliot Morley
Andrew MacKay
Geoff Hoon
Jack Straw
Anyone else I’ve missed off?
632: You thought Cameron was good and so did I but the problem is people are so angry now, will they listen to him and give him a chance.
636 - kjh
Cheers
But seriously, if the LDs dropped the pure PR nonsense for the commons* then they would suddenly find a lot of support for replacing FPTP with MM-STV. I know lots of tories, mostly younger, who want change.
*I would use PR for an elected House of Lords.
640 Martin. Surely top of the list
641, I think that misreads the mood. Although people are ready to jump all over politicians they’re also desperate to have some faith restored in the political class, an opportunity Clegg and Brown have failed to recognise or grasp.
643, Michael Martin is already priority 1 (that’s the top 10).
637. What do you want to bet on URW? That you are:
1. A Coward!
2. A Shmock!
3. A man Sans Honour!
Or all the above.
641 “You thought Cameron was good and so did I but the problem is people are so angry now, will they listen to him and give him a chance.” if my canvassing today (see my post at 400) was anything to go by, the answer to your question is a resounding “yes”.
@642:
I thought that the Lib Dems were nominally in favour of STV?
Of course, if we ever did change to STV, we’d go with 3-member constituencies just to piss the Yellow Peril off, who would demand at least 5-member seats to satisfy their own self-serving notion of fairness.
642. Councilhousetory - I’m now getting this horrible feeling that maybe I don’t know our (LD) policy, but I thought it was MM-STV for the commons.
640. Peter and Iris Robinson!!
641
I dont think they will be listening to anything Gordon Brown says. I think they WILL listen to someone who has a clear strategy for stopping these abuses.
632 stjohn - I think that’s still unlikely, because (a) Labour still have their fiefdoms, and (b) the LibDems and others must begin to start picking up more seats if Labour collapses that far.
It’s certainly a volatile situation; maintaining a Labour Sell on the spreads is one way of protecting against things going even more badly for Labour. But that also has its risks, most notably the possibility that Brown does go.
I agree that Martin should be top of the list. Having just watched Malik on TV i think he should be second on the list. His aggressive and arrogant attitude just showed he does not get it. Well, I’m sure the good folk of Dewsbury do. How long will it be before he’s claiming he’s a victim of racism?
645 Old Father Time.Make a Book and with luck you’ll get takers.
649, added.
652, Malik replaces Yvette Cooper in the top 10.
654. Thank you kindly sir!!
644: I hope you are right, Brown was never leadership material and Clegg took the LD leadership before he was ready for it. Cameron has been very good.
653. Actually you bore me.
640 Balls/Cooper and Ming for the shocking food bills
Does anyone know the last time the Monarchy intervened to dissolve Parliament?
659. I think the last monarch who tried that lost his head!
658, to clarify the list above is just recent additions in light of the expenses fiasco. Here’s the full list:
Priority 1 [Top 10]:
Brown
Balls
Shahid Malik
Liam Byrne
Michael Martin
Jacqui Smith
Howard from the Halifax adverts
Keith Vaz
Bono [sponsored by hypocritical do-gooder company which for tax purposes is registered on Mars]
Anthony Charles Lynton Blair
Priority 2:
Cherie Booth/Blair, Wicked Witch of the West
Michael Martin of Trough-snouting
Hain
The siblings Alexander (double-shotted)
D. Milipede
Dawn Butler
Sion Simon
Beckett-Cohen caravan double-shotted special
BBC News editorial team
Andrew Marr
Alistair Campbell [45 minutes to firing]
Derek Draper
Dennis Skinner
Nick Griffin
Nick Robinson [possible double-shotting with Brown, post-fight with Maguire for the right to be the one with his head up Gordon's bottom]
Kevin Maguire [possible double-shotting with Brown, post-fight with Robinson for the right to be the one with his head up Gordon's bottom]
Billy Bragg
Yasmin Alibhi-Brown
Polly Toynbee
Johann Hari
Stephen Pound
Ian McShane
Tony McNulty
Jo Brand
Paris Hilton
Hoon
Des Browne
Lula, president of Brazil and blamer of blue-eyed white people
Ken Leavingsoon
Wintertons [double-shotted]
Richard Timney
Jonathan Ross
Russell Brand
Margaret Hodge
Blunkett
Mark Steel
Marcus Brigstocke
Patricia Hewitt
JK Rowling
Neil Kinnock, Lord of Ginger
Galloway [funds raised to put on a show of Puss in Boots for orphans]
James ‘Sideburns’ Purnell
Anita Anand
Harman
Phil Woolas
Damian MacBride
James Gray
Baroness Uddin
Yvette Cooper
Margaret Beckett
DOuglas[?] Hogg
Francis Maude
Andrew Lansley
Hazel Blears
Elliot Morley
Andrew MacKay
Geoff Hoon
Jack Straw
Peter and Iris Robinson [double-shotting special]
Solar Death Ray:
Lord Mandelson of Meltingfast
647 - I cannot understand this silly notion that the solution to our problems is a voting system that is utterly and totally insane and would result in the end of the era of stable government.
657.Yippee.I’ve finally got a stalker !
Is this the ‘calm before the storm’ ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5331283/MPs-expenses-Liberal-Democrat-spent-1235-on-four-mirrors-and-bought-Don-Juan-bookcase.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5330904/MPs-expenses-Tory-MP-Nadine-Dorries-admits-she-only-spends-weekends-and-holidays-in-her-main-home.html
Or has ‘Tropical Storm’ Telegraph blown itself out ??
Unless they have something dynamite on Michael Martin at the weekend, or the ‘Balls-Up’ is just an appetiser, I can’t really see how much further the story can really go ??
647 Martin, I appreciate you are only joking, but if you want to go for something lets make it fair rather than go for party advantage. Having said that I’m not against the number being pretty low as I wouldn’t want each constituency being too large (gut feeling of 3 - 5 sounds fine to me).
Although my natual inclination is to vote LD if I see a good Tory/Lab/Ind or a LD plonker my vote is up for grabs.
662, your confusion is unnecessary. This is official policy from a party which promised in its manifesto to give us a referendum on Lisbon, then whipped an abstention in the House of Commons whilst calling for another referendum on another subject. Surely you weren’t expecting logic or coherence?
Martin Coxall and kjh
I’m wrong then. Oops. But to be fair, if the LDs have changed their preference from PR to MM-STV, then they haven’t exactly advertised it.
Good for them though. If that’s their policy, I agree with it.
There was an MP from leeds,
who swallowed a packet of seeds.
Out of her arse grew a blade of grass
and out of her fanny grew weeds.
Re Nadine, if Parliament sits for (say) 36 weeks a year, and Nadine works 2 weekends in 3 when Parliament is sitting and one in 4 when it is not, and assuming she spends 2 nights in her constituency on those weekends, that is a total of 56 nights she would spend in the constituency.
Tim and the DT seem certain that 56 is more nights than she spends in any other property for which she is responsible. I’d say it may be, but I don’t have the evidence to be certain.
I agree that she could have put up a better defence, but that doesnt seem to me to justify Tim’s endless repetition (though what ever does?) or the length and prominence of the Telegraph article.
666 - No I expect it of the Yellow Peril, I don’t understand supposedly sound Conservatives advocating insane voting systems.
Whilst I’m as angered about the situation as many others are, I thought I’d do a quick calculation to work out how much of our taxes our MPs are robbing us of to subsidise their luxurious and extravagant existences.
Well it comes out as something like a grand total of 60 pence per annum per worker in this country.
So whilst certainly they deserve the opprobrium of the country for their manipulation and protection of such a generous system, let’s keep it in context and not pretend that MPs are bleeding people dry for their expenses……….
667 Councilhousetory
We haven’t changed. It has always been our policy (as far as I can remember) and I’ve been a member since 1983!
667 - We have a cross party consensus on MM STV.
If Brown had any sense he would use this opportunity challenge the other two parties to support it and fight the next election under the new system.
670
JamesB. What’s insane about MM-STV?
669
The sad thing is,(hypothetically speaking) even after a complete thrashing of Labour at the GE, one doubts Tim would disappear. He would still be making the same class hatred based statements that have been prevalent on the site of late.
673, er, no.
Brown the unelected PM who broke his promise over a referendum tries to gerrymander the electoral system before an expected crushing defeat? Yeah, he’d have credibility.
669. Adam, trying to justify anything to Tim is like proving that green cheese comes from the moon. It won’t make a bit of difference.
664 ‘However, what I did not at the time consider to be luxury items, and what the House of Commons did not advise me were luxury items, clearly now are considered as such.’
Really? You don’t consider a chest of drawers and a free-standing mirror costing £1,475 and £725 respectively to be ‘luxury’ Mr Younger-Ross? What a to$$er.
Fasinating stuff on Hubble repair on NASA TV
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
Easy to see why Shahid ‘Massage’ Malik is so popular, listen to this fantastic speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttz8-ucWhYc
659. IIRC, George III in 1784…
673
To late tim. Boundaries need drawing etc. What Brown can do is democratically reform the House of Lords. If he handles it correctly (big if) then it could happen quite quickly.
674 - You end up with Members of different parties representing the same area and being played against each other by constituents. Plus you actually elect those that are least unpopular not the most popular. Finally no one will ever move more than 6 inches either side of an imagined line, it would suck the passion out of politics. It is an utterly and totally insane thing to do with politics in this country.
659 It was probably James 2nd just before the Glorious Revolution….?
Richard Younger-Ross and his expensive tastes have cost the Lib Dems a slice of the West Country - that will teach him to ask a fundametally rubbish question at Blair’s last PMQs
669 - Adam Smith.
Her reply to the Telegraph says.
I keep the dogs at the constituency address as I am often there on my own and it confuses them being moved around. When I am not in the constituency, especially during the long summer break, we have a house sitter, at my expense. Again, this can be confirmed.
During term time I spend the majority of weekends in the constituency as my job tends to be seven days a week, as detailed above. My youngest daughter has attended a school in Bedford since last September.
679 That looks expensive. If in doubt, a good whack with a hammer should do the trick!
662. Tell that to the Irish (and Northern Irish for that matter!)
Take Fermanagh & South Tyrone, one of the more mixed Catholic/Protestant seats in NI.
In the 2005 GE, Sinn Fein’s Michelle Gildernew won the seat with only 38% of the vote using FPTP. One Republican representative representing a population roughly 56% Catholic/43% Protestant! And she doesn’t even sit in Parliament!!
Now take the Assembly election two years later.
Using 6-seat STV, the constituency voted for two SF MLAs plus two DUP, 1 SDLP and 1 UUP.
Now tell me, which result is fairer?
686
The Hammer probably cost as much as all the MP’s expenses put together !!!
AQ guest list:
Panellists are UKIP leader Nigel Farage,
Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Jeremy Hunt, former Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer
and Susan Kramer MP, the leader of the Liberal Democrats’ campaign against the third runway at Heathrow.
I do recall that Hunt I think is utterly spotless expenses-wise. What about Kramer?
Just saw the Tory PPB…very good, very good indeed. I think thats what you call, starting to seal the deal
Beckett is bleating on C4 News
Really pathetic
677 - Look back on the comments and you’ll see we could have had a news exclusive on Nadine.
Because ther herd boys don’t like it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Channel 4 News now reporting Nadine “unavailable for comment”
Now theres a first.
690. Indeed. Camerons address to the nation looks like he’s already the PM!
Beckett just smeared Cameron on Ch4 - apparantly the Telegraph should have gone for him as he has a ‘whacking great house’ and some Labour MPs are not a rich and then went on a wandering train wreck, oh and she ‘doesn’t know the details’ of the Malik and Blears cases.
692 Who cares tim? This NASA downlink is much more interesting - 2 men in space suits trying to shut a door. Out of this world.
691
This will be Beckett’s backing track at the GE..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcYfRysceeQ
687 - Yes but nothing ever gets done in Ireland. Look across Europe at all the countries that utilise a form of proportional voting and nothing ever changes, the momentum of change in all those countries is utterly glacial. EVeryone heaps into the safe ground and cuts a shabby and squalid deal for a ministerial desk. Detestable system of voting.
ARGH!!! ENOUGH WITH THE EXPENSES STORIES!!! I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!
697. “Citations needed”, to quote Wikipedia.
697. (Even if true, and you haven’t proved it) the Irish seem to like it that way. Twice they have rejected a return to FPTP in referendums.
Not seen the C4 Beckett muttering but it seems that the new Labour strategy is to smear Cameron. I noticed Malik did it as well. Politics of envy = politics of losers. Clearly they are desperate…..
Not seen the C4 Beckett muttering but it seems that the new Labour strategy is to smear Cameron. I noticed Malik did it as well. Politics of envy = politics of losers. Clearly they are desperate…..
680- Perhaps Malik himself will, one glorious day, be leader of the Caliphate of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Apologies for the duplicate post
Say what you mean James
As it is, I don’t think any system is perfect, but FPTP has delivered us a contemptible government with 2/3 of seats on just over 40% of the vote.
When Mandelson stood in Hartlepool? the voters had a choice between voting for him and supporting the Labour government, or voting against him and opposing the Labour government. This is unacceptable.
What about Mackay’s or Winterton’s constituents? Loyal conservatives who are no doubt sick of the government. Yet as it stands, to unseat the government they have to support someone who is dragging the name of the conservative party through the mud. This is a joke.
700 - Just because people like a thing doesn’t make it a good thing.
704
Worry not
Tim does it all the time…
702 The Labour line appears to be we are alowed to be as corrupt as possible because we(some of us) are not as rich as the Tories. I think its a winner;-)
707 - If only he limited himself to posting the same thing twice!
Surely all Nadine has to do is to volunteer to go in front of the ‘Scrutiny Committee’ and agree to ‘binding arbitration’ as it were, and she is ‘home free’ ??
I can