Was Bercow’s move leftwards just a ploy?
June 23rd, 2009How else could he have got Labour to back his bid?
Last night, in the aftermath of the commons election, the Indy writer, Steve Richards, talked in a TV interview about a private conversation that he’d had with Bercow just after the 2005 general election when the Buckingham MP revealed that his career objective was to become speaker.
This has set me thinking. For how could a Tory, then in his early 40s, harbour such a dream when everything would seem to be against him? He was too young and in the wrong party.
At the time Labour look set for a fourth victory and Bercow must have realised that the only way of pulling this off would be by getting Labour support.
So was his apparent move across the political spectrum and public opposition to Cameron part of a well-thought out plan that led to last nigh’t extraordinary victory? Basically has he managed to con both Labour and Tory MPs?
Was it Bercow who worked out that the only way of getting the job was by persuading Labour colleagues his candidature would be a brilliant way of screwing the Tories while at the same time dealing with the increasingly difficult question of the time being ripe for a speaker from his party?
And the joy for Bercow now is that nobody will ever know. For he’s in a job where being non-partisan is an essential requirement.
The timing seems to be right - for while Bercow was in Michael Howard’s shadow cabinet in 2004 he wrote to Tony Blair praising the then PM’s “outstanding statesmanship.” Looking back that was a strange thing to do - yet it all fits with my theory as does his public comments about Cameron’s privileged background.
If I’m right then, surely, he’s the idea man for the job - anybody who could pull off such a coup and fool so many people has extraordinary political gifts. No wonder he liked Blair!
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
2nd?
I’ve never thought he was a raving left-winger as some Tories seem to believe. He’s a social liberal. That’s OK - his opinions aren’t that relevant to the job if he keeps them to himself.
Last thread: Patrick: if you’re curious, my piece on reasons why people vote Labour other than keeping the Tories out was here:
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/04/18/guest-slot-nick-palmer-mp-the-case-for-labour/
Glad to see Oscar accepts that the “Labour whips operation for Beckett” was a fantasy, as I said here at the time, though oddly he seems to think it was a Labour fantasy. It was a typical media story, based on the activities of one whip on behalf of Beckett, and spiced with one quote from Steve Pound. On this occasion, the whips just didn’t get engaged. They’re taking more interest in tomorrow’s vote on Iraq.
Woah I got a first! *falls over*
He planned it all from a grassy knoll overlooking the Paris tunnel where they faked the moon landings.
It’s incredible - the first time I see a post with No Comments and by the time I click the link - there’s half a dozen!
They remind me of Bernie Eccleston + wife.
3. You appear to have underestimated yourself
Hasn’t Sarkozy just declared that he doesn’t want John Bercow in France? Or did I mishear…
And it was Amelia Earhart who piloted a one-man missile into the Pentagon on 9/11, I tell you!
Mrs Bercow appears to be wearing a Giraffe.
Reposted from last thread as missed Mike’s notice!
One assumption: that the Tories win the next two elections (really so unlikely?)
*Then Bercow is in the strange position of being more dependent on his enemies than his friends.*
If by the next GE in 11 months or so(?!) the Tories really hate him, they could present the need for a new Speaker after each GE as part of a programme of continued reform, and point out that it would be a Tory who would need to seek re-election!
So Bercow’s fate actually lies for the next decade or so in Tory hands. After the next GE, Labour opinion won’t count for much I suspect. Labour should have got Frank Field in - respected by the Tories, Labour - so harder for the Tories to remove, and still then an ‘Opposition Speaker’ with a likely (be honest) Tory Government.
As others have pointed out however, Labour are just so bloody tribal that they can’t think strategically…
I suspect his recent ‘conversion’ to left wing values is about as sincere as his previous adherence to eccentric right wing ones.
It’s notable that many of the former FCS-style characters have shifted their ground greatly over the years.
It’s called doing whatever is necessary to get ahead - in the 1980s that involved calling for the introduction of the electric chair and invading the Republic of Ireland, today it’s about adhering to Labour’s PC agenda. Tomorrow? who knows.
I don’t share you admiration for slimy, unprincipled careerists of this sort, Mike.
Did he call his first born Fabian as well?
OT why does his wife insist on wearing a dress with a giraffe pattern on it - it makes the comparison with shorty even more stark.
8 — I thought it was James Burke…
he is a trougher, ergo labour mp’s voted for him as one of their own for that reason, he can hardly go hard on them when he has made oodles himself from scams.
never have so many scottish labour mp’s been so positive about a tory, after all he he keeps them in a job.
FPT - 128 - another richard - “It’s a constituency you know… “
Indeed. I was brought up in Edinburgh Pentlands (Norman Wylie and Malcolm Rifkind were my MPs as a kid) and know these areas pretty well (although I am unfamiliar with the precise boundaries of the new(-ish) seat.
- “Is it likely that some SNP voters will vote tactically and if so for Conservatives or for Labour?”
Mmmm… this is the great unknown in this particular seat: the SNP have massive strength and depth throughout Edinburgh now, so it is highly questionable just how many SNPers will vote tactically, and indeed in which direction.
This is the big difference between Edin SW and, for example, East Renfrewshire (Scots Secretary Jim Murphy) -> in the southern Glasgow suburbs the SNP vote (which is substantial) is likely to be much softer round the edges -> a significant chunk of it could go Tory to get rid of Murphy.
Whereas in Edinburgh’s southern bourgeois districts it is the Lib Dem vote which is soft as hell.
3
With Hons.
Bercow comes across as an arrogant, pompous little man who likes the sound of his own voice too much. Even when taking the chair yesterday, you could tell he thought he was the star of the show. It would not surprise me in the least if his move from Powellite to Blairite was all a ruse to get the Speaker’s chair. A bit desperate though if it was!
Anyway, betting wise I had a few quid on him at 3/1 so I am quite happy!
Apparently, following a GE, the house has to acclaim the Speaker. If just one voice is raised in the negative, then we have a speaker election. Just one voice.
18 - That’ll be Nadine then
4
Absolutely.
2 for NickP:
O/T: Nick - what is the status of the Royal Mail privatisation bill? Should we expect a vote soon? (I have a financial interest courtesy of Paddy Power..)
Perhaps John Bercow recalls the achievement of Speaker Addington who was Prime Minister from 1801-04. He took over from William Pitt the Younger when the Government became enmeshed in controversy over Roman Catholic relief and negotiations with Napoleon which eventually led to the Peace of Amiens. Henry Addington, later Viscount Sidmouth, went on to become the very authoritarian Home Secretary who pushed through and rigourously enforced the repressive Six Acts of 1819.
19 Guaranteed - did she cry out twice yesterday or was it just the once?
I’ve heard reports that she shouted ‘not in my name’ and ‘wages’
No, she shouted “Blessed are the cheesemakers.”
Mike S.
If I’m right then, surely, he’s the idea man for the job - anybody who could pull off such a coup and fool so many people has extraordinary political gifts. No wonder he liked Blair!
Whilst I agree with the comparison to Blair. I think there is a significant difference. Bercow shows none of the self-effacing qualities of Blair and at times they were Blair’s saving grace. Bercow will likely get a far rougher ride than Blair. Furthermore Bercow’s delivery is forced whereas Blair’s was natural.
As a first example here is an excerpt for the Times sketch.
What a day! I don’t know why anyone was surprised really. After all, the final choice was clear. Ber-Cow is a bumptious, condescending, patronising man who speaks. very. slowly. so. we. can. all. understand.
Sir George Young is fluent, elegant, experienced. I think we should have known who would win.
But, as one MP said, in despair: “How is it that we are going to end up with an eccentric little troll?” That is the question. Well, no one cannot say it was a decision taken in haste.
Bercow’s narrative is already being written……..
2. Nick P
I’ve never thought he was a raving left-winger
Neither have I (but Tony Benn backed him) although here does share some of the worst characteristics of the Labour Party :- arrogant, entitled, self-important, hypocritical, two faced and influenced by class bigotry. All in all he comes over as a thoroughly dislikeable human being.
The fact that Labour made him Speaker speakes volumes about the mutual similarities. He is Labour at it’s worst.
24 - Which would have made as much sense as most of her utterances.
22. Hopefully his fate will be more similar to that of the man he so presumptiously compared himself with yesterday, metaphorically speaking of course.
SD
Thanks
Ladbrokes 6/4 for 4-6 Conservative Scottish MPs looks tempting.
Dumfries and Dumfrieshire make 2 then 2 from Ed SW, Ed S, Berwickshire and Renfrew E.
If the Conservatives gain all 4 you still win the bet and I think it’s difficult to see where other Conservative gains might come from.
Wilson defends ‘triple jobbing’
The new finance minster Sammy Wilson has defended his right to hold down three political jobs at the same time.
First Minister and DUP leader Peter Robinson said all ministers in the Executive would have to make a choice about which institution to serve.
But Mr Wilson - a Belfast city councillor, an MP and a minister - said this must be a gradual change.
“If David Cameron is really serious about doing away with double jobbing, he is going to have to get rid of half of his cabinet or else they are gong to have to get rid of half their jobs,” he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8114453.stm
18. There will probably be hundreds of negative voices, though I’d expect Nadine’s to be among them.
I have been literally astonished at the condemnation and sheer hatred of Bercow on here. I think his election is clouding some people’s judgment!
Do the Tories really want to set a precedent that when they feel a Speaker isn’t really ‘one of them’ they’ll force him out and elect one of their own? That would lead to a new Speaker every change of government and one much more closely wedded to the executive. That would undermine Parliament and I think it would be absurdly wrong.
All this before Bercow even opens his (considerably large) mouth in the Speaker’s chair!
Listen, guys. I don’t like Bercow. He’s smarmy and careerist and clearly loves the sound of his own voice. But we do not know how SPEAKER Bercow will perform yet. He could surprise some people. For what it’s worth, I think he’ll do an OK job, and one that certainly exceeds the lousy performance of his predecessor.
Yes, his appointment was disappointing and yes, it was clearly through partisan political considerations. But let’s hope he can rise above that and deliver a performance that will earn him the trust of all of the House. For Parliament’s sake, I hope he can. And you know - knowing so much about the history of the role, the duties of the role (despite it being a result of his careerism) might not do Bercow any damage at all. At least we’ll have a competent Speaker.
So long as he doesn’t pander to Brown like Gorbals did. And I’d love him forever if he brought back the wig!
Tim Shipman in the Mail:
Cameron’s new EU allies have voiced support for Hitler’s Waffen SS and call Obama’s election ‘the end of civilisation’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1194874/Camerons-new-EU-allies-support-Hitlers-Waffen-SS-Obamas-election-end-civilisation.html
“And the joy for Bercow now is that nobody will ever know. For he’s in a job where being non-partisan is an essential requirement.”
A shame nobody mentioned that to his predecessor really
28 - I posted this on the last thread
128 - from the Euro elections, it depends where the ‘others’ go, the Greens polled over 2000. I would not try and translate the vote at a European election to a General Election. Wait and see what electoral wind blows then. It does suggest though Labour are vulnerable if the others vote against them.
A complete list of the votes cast in the Edinburgh constituencies from Calum Cashley’s blog is below
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_g05rcQEz–I/Sj-790h4tKI/AAAAAAAABc8/qkZVQvth1oM/s1600-h/euroresult1.BMP
by marcia June 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 am
More Scottish Lib Dem woes:
‘Aberdeen council leader ousted’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8114119.stm
Also, bearing in mind yesterday’s result; perhaps a reform would be that to win, one would have to win an absolute majority of ballots cast and, say, 30% of the each of the votes of the three main parties. That would ensure cross-party support though would undermine the ’secret’ nature of the ballot. Interesting thought, though.
36. Or get rid of the secret ballot ?
Just posted at the end of the last thread:
morning all anda s I couldnt get the broadband relay to work last night you were all deprived of my pearls of wisdom (thank goodness I hear some of you say).
I am ashamed of my fellow Tories today for criticising Bercow’s election. He might be an arrogant little sh1t, he might be a turncoat or all the other things people have accused him of.
HOWEVER, if the majority of Tories had wanted to stop him then they should have persuaded someone like Sir Malcolm Rifkind or another Tory popular throughout the House of Commons to stand. They didnt and by getting Bercow we avoided Margaret Beckett.
Frankly given that at present there are 440 MPs who are not Tories and there were some 50 MPs missing (were they mainly the retiring and disgraced does anyone know)Bercow clearly got support from ALL parties even if he only received support from a small minority of tories. Alan Duncan and David Cameron had the right idea in looking forward. Speaker Bercow now needs to prove himself and frankly that will include holding Gordon Brown to account.
As for the summer, I am not so sure it will be quiet politically. I suspect lots of little things will happen which added together will make things look pretty interesting come Party conference season in September. For the record I expect Brown to lead Labour into the GE unless he is knocked down by the proverbial London (Boris’ bendy) bus.
by Easterross June 23rd, 2009 at 10:33 am
As for the Scottish LibDems, RIP
‘Leader of city council forced out’
The leader of Aberdeen City Council has been ousted after facing a storm of controversy over millions of pounds of cuts to the city’s budget.
Kate Dean has been replaced as Lib Dem group leader by her colleague John Stewart.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/8113977.stm
The Lib Dems are going to get massacred in Aberdeen, the North East, and in Edinburgh.
Bercow - I note some of the usual Conservative suspects are doing a more than passable impression of chewing wasps whilst stomping on a vat of sour grapes. Oh …. and someone please pass the lemons over to them too.
It’s a sight to behold !!
I wouldn’t say its a ploy, but I think Bercow is more than campable of ingratiating himself with the Conservatives over the next few months if he has to….
40. Conservatives don’t like him and didn’t want him as Speaker. Labour played their silly games and imposed him anyway. What do you expect Conservatives to do now? Lie about how they feel? Why should they? Just to make lefties feel better about themselves?
‘Labour candidates queue up to fight for city seat’
There are at least three serious Labour candidates for the Glasgow North East seat, as the need to name a date looms.
Councillor Gordon Matheson, the City Treasurer, is to apply for selection, putting him on a collision course with the current favourite, constituency party secretary Willie Bain. The Herald also understands that a senior union official with good local connections to the area is up for the fight.
In last week’s European elections, Labour polled just 2067 ahead of the SNP in the seat. Last year, the SNP overturned a Labour majority of 13,500 in neighbouring Glasgow East.
… a senior Labour figure in the Glasgow North East seat said Bain, a 36-year-old law lecturer and party organiser, remained favourite: “The only thing that might upset that is if London try to interfere.”
Councillor Grant Thoms is tipped to be the SNP’s candidate in the constituency.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2515920.0.Labour_candidates_queue_up_to_fight_for_city_seat.php
38. Agree, Easteross. Let’s give Bercow a chance.
And yes, we avoided Beckett. If partisanship won the day, at least it did not win the day in so blatent a manner as to force a retiring minister upon the chair.
40. I notice your prediction of the outcome turned out to be crap, though. Will we get a little less smugness and superiority in future?
31. No 12.
I don’t actually believe that MPs should be allowed to elect the Speaker anymore. Just as their terms and conditions should be controlled independently so should the appointment of the Speaker (perhaps even elected independently).
MPs twice on the trot have proved they are incapable of impartially electing an appropriate candidate. They have abused the role of Speaker just as they have abused their expenses.
Now given my views I would hammer this choice and Bercow, whatever the colour of his politics.
The problem is in this that MPs think that they are the be all and end all of democracy in this country. They are not, it is we the people who are, it is our House of Commons not theirs, and if they don’t get it, they will come crashing down to earth (as they mainly seemingly don’t) with a thud in 12 months or so.
Incidentally, I do hope an independent or minor party stands against Bercow in Buckingham and wins at the next election. Rewarding ‘King Trough’ with a f*cking great pay rise is yet another massive insult to the electorate!
Arrange the following in order of hatred:
Cancer
John Bercow
Nazi propaganda films
Osama bin Laden
38 Easterross. You are correct on Bercow not being friendless among Conservative MP’s.
Crick on “Newsnight” estimated that Bercow ended up with around 30-40 Conservative votes including some who suprised Crick with their support.
47. what no tim on the list ?
2. Glad to see Oscar accepts that the “Labour whips operation for Beckett” was a fantasy, as I said here at the time, though oddly he seems to think it was a Labour fantasy.
Errr Nick the source for the story was Stephen Pound who is I believe a Labour MP.
What this does show is what a political numpty Douglas Carswell is. We are at this point because Carswell et Al thought it was a good idea to force the resignation of Gorbals Mick whilst there was still a massive labour majority. What a tw*t!
49 — yes, I could’ve composed a list that consisted entirely of PB.com posters.
44. I was always of the view that Bercow would have been preferable to Beckett. That was until yesterday afternoon. I now believe Beckett would have been better. Infact anybody would have been better than Bercow. This guy is a vain, self-absorbed creep who openly mocks the very MP’s he’s supposed to representing. He is also mired in sleaze after flipping his house and avoiding CGT. A terrible, terrible mistake has been made here. The fact he’s changed his right wings views are the least of his drawbacks, quite frankly. His views don’t matter anyway as he’ll be impartial. No what really matters is the character of the man and the way he behaves on a personal level and in that respect he’s going to be a disaster.
48. According to Alan Duncan on the Today programme no more than half a dozen Tories voted for Bercow. I guess we will never know - one of the pitfalls of a secret ballot.
If Orwell was alive today and writing ‘1984′, would he have renamed the Goldstein character ‘Bercow’?
46. The problem is jsfl that for all its shining history, the Speakership has always been considered a bit of a contentious post - a battle between government and the backbenches, or parties between parties. Looking at the ‘history’ section of the Wikipedia (yes, I know, groan!) article demonstrates this.
Sometimes you have well-mannered and well-conducted ‘ideal’ elections like that of Boothroyd in 1992 but those are not necessarily the norm.
I would agree that this one at first glace looks extremely cynical (”Let’s elect the closet Labourite, however unsuitable, in order to annoy the Tories”) but I’m sure it’s not without precedent and I think I will reserve my judgment of Speaker Bercow to how he performs in the chair rather than the reasons for his election.
In other words, I’ll condemn the (seemingly) poor motives for his election, but not the man himself as Speaker until I see how he performs.
42 GIN. A little more grace wouldn’t come amiss.
The irony is that Bercow moved to the left and accepted a more socially liberal agenda a few years before Cameron and the rest followed suit. You seem to want to punish his insight but accept the policies !!
45 runnymede. My “smuggness” pales compared to your endless droning hackery that I have little doubt will infest the site till hell freezes.
54. I certainly wouldn’t give any credence to Crick’s figures. Hardly a reliable or independent source.
38. Easterross.
and there were some 50 MPs missing (were they mainly the retiring and disgraced does anyone know)
The majority of absent MPs were on EU commission business somewhere (some meeting).
As for the rest of your comments on Bercow read mine at 46. Personally I am ashamed of appeasers of MPs who would happily forget the abuses of the expenses scandal so easily without any general recompense or meaningful remorse!
Electing Bercow shows they couldn’t give a flying f*ck!
38 - 36 MPs in Europe at Council of Europe meetings a few others at other functions.
Bercow’s move leftwards to gain the job he wanted is mirrored by the large number of Labour Cabinet Ministers who moved rightwards to get power. The unease is that we expect a degree of principle from our politicians and are always surprised when we find they have none.
It was the degree to which Bercow would attack his own side in pursuit of his goal that did for him as regards Tory benches rather than his politics, which seem pretty average for a socially liberal reformist Tory.
48
Crick, of course Jack is the fount of all wisdom, and utterly unpartisan.
2 NPMP. Thanks for reposting. I had guessed in advance that this would be ‘laughable twaddle’. It wasn’t. It was just empty. Thin as water.
A little view of what the BBC’s HYS crowd thinks of Bercow’s victory
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=6629&edition=1&ttl=20090623105251
56. No 12.
When he pays back all the excess expenses he’s troughed over the last 7 years (my estimate is around £30-35k) then I might make some consideration for him. Until then…………
Oh, I must also add that I thought it was very partisan of Brown to do this whole fawning ‘welcoming speech’ to Bercow in two instances:
a) “oooh you did an excellent job looking into children’s welfare for me. oooh that was a report I told you to do, look at how close we are, nudge, nudge”
b) The remark about how “we on these benches think you gave up your political opinions a long time ago.” Whilst in a way it could be argued that was actually a bit of a dig at Bercow, it also blatently reinforced the partisanship of Labour in the election.
Though I know it’s customary to do a welcome speech, I thought it would have been more tactful to be a little less partisan when discussing a non partisan role.
It didn’t demonstrate Brown in a good light. But then, that’s exceedingly rare anyway so I’m not sure we should expect any more.
I hate John Bercow
In a totally irrational way
Maybe it’s got something to do with his support among Labour MPs
Or maybe not, I can’t say
I hate John Bercow
He’s the sort that gets me down
I wish he’d fall into a reservoir
then swim about a bit, then drown
(Apologies to Smith & Jones)
36, that enshrines the parties in the process, probably not a good idea. If the third party has only one more MP than the fourth, there’d be massive complaint. Any other threshold figure, whether absolute or percentage, would create the same problem when just barely failed.
You can get the same effect, more simply, by requiring a double majority. Government and opposition benches have separate secret ballots, with a majority require in both. The same procedure may be appropriate for some other matters relating to the internal affairs of the Commons, to prevent supine government MPs nodding through reductions in their power to hold the executive to account.
As things stand, any government could use its majority to abolish all ministerial questions, all opposition days, and exclude all opposition members from every last committee. All that stops them is respect for tradition, and good political judgement, not exactly qualities we can rely on our politicians to possess. A stronger check is needed.
57. I don’t care about his views. His views are not important as being Speaker nobody will know what his views are. I am, in any case very sympathetic to the kind of social, liberal views he espouse’s.
Of course I could just sit back and say I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, but where would the fun be in that.
I was always of the view, right on day one of Micharl Martin’s election to the Chair, that Speaker Martin would be a disaster. So it proved. I bet you was in the “Be gracious and give Martin a chance” camp?
If Bercow is any good I’ll be more than happy to admit I’m wrong, but until he proves me wrong I’ll carry on making my opinion of him clear as long as Mike permits it.
And Nick Robinson’s view, couple of good quotes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2009/06/changing_tradition_of_speaker.html
61 MTF And Alan Duncan !!
Perhaps on occassions some Conservative supporters might view a little critisism or when an event doesn’t come up roses for the Tories as anything less than a huge conspiracy by one of the usual fall guys nominated form central casting.
If you can’t hack small setbacks now how the hell do you expect to run a government with a degree of competence. Get a grip !!
50
Double bluff
As another aside, I must say I do love that the government continues to force the Lord Chancellor to do approbation ceremonies, despite him now being an MP. I thought Jack Straw dressed in his 18th century finery tipping his hat with three corners was a delight to behold.
How devious of our constitution for having reserved such embarrasing torture!
Runnymede
58. Agreed. If this is “droning hackery”, Jack W, I hope we have a lot more of it.
I find it extraordinary how much hatred the Tories seem to show to one of their own MPs! The same with the frankly appalling attacks on the outgoing MEP Chris Beazley. The rancour and nastiness towards one of their own side is just disgusting.
As for the idea that the Conservatives have a prayer in Edinburgh South: I am sure a Voice from the Lothians would have something informed to say about that.
As for Stuart Dickson’s snide comments, well the SNP have been triumphalist so many times before, and it is surely much more likely that he is counting his chickens before they hatch- that is, after all what the SNP usually does. Even their victory at Holyrood is only on a minority administration, and we shall see if they can actually improve on that at the vote, shan’t we?
The Scottish Lib Dems are regularly written off, but the fact is that they continue to have strong support in their own areas and of course far more MPs than the SNP does in Scotland.
74. What I find extraordinary is the contempt Bercow has shown to his own party.
73 Oscar. I have little doubt you hopes will be met with knobs on !!
76. Isn’t it time for another ‘illness’ and tearful farewell?
I love ID cards compared to how much I hate John Bercow!
Btw, does anyone here use Tennis For Free (tffdreamteam.com)?
I’ve entered into a mini-league. You pick 10 male and 10 female tennis players and get points based on various things such as wins, straight set bonuses and if low-ranking players advance far into a tournament.
Too late for Wimbledon but might be an idea for the next Grand Slam.
Bercow does appear to have got where he is in a somewhat slippery fashion, but we are stuck with him for the present… and everyone is capable of redemption.
Perhaps his ascension to the Speaker’s chair will sublimate him in some mysterious way. All he needs to do to confound the doubters is say seven simple words:
“The Prime Minister will answer the question.”
Yeah. That’ll happen.
Heard the Dorries person on the radio this morning. Would have thought that she might just be gangster Brown’s best hope for the next election; rather in the way that a series of ‘discussions’ or rants between Gove and Balls would be encouraging for the minor parties and Clegg’s lot.
70 Jack W
All I said was that Crick isnt impartial IMHO and I therefore questioned the suggestion that 30-40 Tory MP’s voted for Bercow.. I think thats a tad of an overestimate.
2 - The Man Doth Protest Too Much!
Every post I have seen from NPMP over the past couple of days basically the same “no whips operation”, “all a fantasy”, etc.
Why does he feel he has to keep mentioning time and time again?
Just read more of the Tory boys’ bile.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
John Bercow - He is hated but for now we have to live with him, If he steps out of line he will not be around after the next GE. Its pointless for the party and its supporters to start acting like dissapointed children because we didn’t get what we wanted. Rise above it get on with it and look forward to the future !!! The party is at least united in its dissapointment with what we got, its now time to move on !
70 - Quoting Crick as an independent source is frankly laughable. The man is a mischief maker always looking to stick the boot in on the Tories.
From watching News 24 just after 10am this morning, they were talking about limited support from Tory benches, which seems most likely the case.
Also, I remember somebody (maybe Smearbot, maybe JackW) saying that Carswell voted for Bercow, on News 24 he said he didn’t do anything of the sort.
Finally, was it just me, or rather than being dragged to the chair, Bercow appeared to be dragging the other Tory, like a dog on a lease, straining to catch up with an attractive bitch.
74 Cicero, come the GE the SLD will be lucky to hold 8 seats and they are not going to win either Edinburgh south or Aberdeen south. In the euro elections they came 4th in both constituencies.
69. Robinson says Bercow has been planning to be Speaker for a decade! This is worse than I thought. I thought he’d been plotting for this since about 2005. But it actually seems he’s been eyeing up the Speakership since almost the moment he came into Parliament in 1997. Doesn’t that strike as a little odd? That someone should be so focused, that driven on getting this position? Why, its almost Gordon Brownesque and look what a disaster he’s been. Invariably those that spend years plotting for something eventually end up not being any good at it. It was the same with Anthony Eden….
82 Why, MTF?
Were you not surprised, as I was, by the margin of Bercow’s victory in the run off? Nobody will know for sure who voted for who, but it’s a fair guess that that a number of Tories did vote for Bercow. Thirty to fourty looks about right.
77 runnymede. You’re making a fool of yourself. But please carry on.
82 MTF. We’ll never know for sure. However the much larger margin of victory for Bercow compared to the informed estimates would indicate that Bercow attracted more Conservative MP’s that had been predicted.
Easterross is correct on this.
The hatred toward Bercow demeans the Conservative party.
George Osborne got this last night when he started the applause.
In a week when legalising hunting with hounds has been announced as party policy,the link with the Nazi sympathisers has been cemented it is probably not the best time for the Conservative Party to show its nasty side.
And for gods sake, can’t someone in the party keep Dorries off the radio.
Whether she believes what she say ore is just distracting from her own expense claims, its tragic.
88 - Sounds like a sad little man if true.
Who says “I want to go into politics to be….the speaker….”. It is like when you are a youngster saying my ambition in life is to be selected by England football team when I grow up….to be the magic sponge guy.
88 - Sounds like a sad little man if true.
Who says “I want to go into politics to be….the speaker….”. It is like when you are a kid saying my ambition in life is to be selected by England football team when I grow up….to be the magic sponge guy.
82 - What evidence do you have for that.
Did you expect a 50 vote margin.
I can’t imagine Carswell was the only Tory who saw Bercow as the reformer c.w. Young.
As a Tory, I didn’t want Bercow to win as he clearly did not enjoy confidence across the the House, but while this has undoubtedly upset a lot of Tories, I would have thought that Cameron will be quietly pleased this morning.
Bercow could have become a trenchant critic of Cameron from the left of his party, questioning his modernising zeal and attacking soem of his more conservative social policies. Also, I would have put a wager on bercow defecting to Labour at some deeply embarassing moment for Cameron. That danger has now disappeared. Bercow might make life awkward in the House for a future Prime Minister Cameron or for his ministers, but that won’t upset Cameron too much and if it improves Parliament’s power against the executive (of whatever colour), then that can only be a good thing for Parliament and democracy.
86 oracle. Carswell told Beeb 24 that he voted for Shepherd in the first round and Bercow thereafter.
It would be a fantastic, delicious and succulent irony of the highest order if Mike is right. Labour have currupted and debased the House of Commons with their petty machinations over this. And yet… imagine, the whole Labour whips office put into the titanic effort of electing him on the basis he would annoy the Tories, and all along it was a sucker punch…!
I do believe that he is ambitious enough to have set up matters in the way that Mike is suggesting.
Do remember he was most anxious to make clear at the height of ‘defection speculation’ that he had no intention of going over to Labour and never had.
What a prospect. Good enough for another Archer novel I expect.
91 George Osborne did exactly the right thing. Those arms crossed on the opposition benches didn’t reflect well on them. Whatever your opinions before the vote, Bercow needs to make a good fist of this job and deserves good will across the house at least initially.
JackW
Please accept the commiserations of a fellow punter on your losses in the Speaker election market.
If any should ever have doubted it, they will know you now as a true punter, because you are as open and frank about your losses as you are about your winnings. I would grieve more with you but I am sure that, like me, you have plenty of successful days which more than compensate for the occasional setback.
Here’s to the next big payday. Let’s hope it’s not too far away.
91. Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians ..
For gods sakes Tim change the channel. We got your point about 3 months ago.
94 - That wasn’t the report I heard this morning. They said something along the lines of “although he didn’t vote for Bercow, Carswell ……”, cut to Carswell talking.
But then it is the BBC, they get things wrong fairly often these days.
Quentin Letts take:
Impossible! They voted for someone worse than Gorbals Mick
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1194809/The-House-cheats-nodding-oil-derricks-got-perfect-Speaker.html
95 And of course, Marcus, his motivation in no way impairs his ability to make a good Speaker.
Let’s all wish him luck. It should at the very least be interesting!
98, I know. I saw a caption the other day below a picture of Mandelson and Brown, but they’d accidentally tagged Brown as the Prime Minister.
94 - But you are right, I now checked his blog and says he did. Hope the BBC have corrected that mistake as their spin was we have found a Tory who didn’t vote for him but willing to give him a chance.
Also, the VT was all Carswell says well I hope he does the right thing, no PR, but we will have to wait and see, etc, etc. He didn’t exactly sound like a man who had endorsed Bercow, rather a man trying to sound magnanimous in defeat.
Some excellent stuff from the FT about what we’re our taxes are going
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8278a416-5f74-11de-93d1-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1
98 - Carswell has been all over all TV stations expressing his support for Bercow and telling people he voted for him.
But Tory Douglas Carswell, who called for Michael Martin to stand down as Speaker, said all MPs must work with Mr Bercow.
“We had to replace Michael Martin and we had to replace him with somebody elected freely and fairly by the house and we have done,” he told Sky News.
“John Bercow was not my first choice, but I voted for him in the final round and I think we must accept that he is the legitimate speaker and he is a reformist Speaker, which is good.”</I
What channels are you actually watching when you do your media reviews?
Somebody said the BNP would be made illegal yesterday on here, look has just been announced,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8114619.stm
97: ‘Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians Nazi Latvians ..’
I think that’s the most articulate and considered analysis any PB.com poster has so far given the subject.
100 PtP. “Let’s all wish him luck ….”
You must be joking !! …. The “Sarsons Tendency” (full of vinegar) have been splashing it all over for more than twelve hours now !!
95. Indeed Marcus, I think this is almost certainly what will happen. I think the Labour opposition will come to regret what the Labour government has done. Bercow is the sort that will suck up to whoever benefits him the most. Hitherto that has been Labour, but from about now on this will change.
If Bercow is eventually removed like Michael Martin, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if its the Labour opposition benches that finish up instigating it.
Andrew Gimson’s take:
We were given a short history lesson by Mr Bercow, including a bit of Sir Thomas More, the only MP to be canonised, but while we enjoyed the history, we could not help wishing Mr Bercow had refrained from mocking the more historical members of the present House.
Mr Bercow’s slow enunciation created the unfortunate impression that he considered his audience, or part of it, to be half-witted. His presentation of himself as the “clean-break candidate” fostered the idea that he was all too happy to alienate some MPs: an unhappy characteristic for a Speaker
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/5606243/Sketch-Labour-benches-applaud-as-Tory-John-Bercow-heads-to-Speakers-chair.html
99 JSFL
Isn’t it time to drop the ‘Gorbals Mick’? It’s nothing more than silly name-calling.
99 I don’t know anyone in politics who would like the support of Quentin Letts and Nadine Dorries simultaneously and openly.
91. Taking the risk of feeding the troll, tim by simply shouting Nazi sympathisers at the Latvians you are completely misunderstanding the history in Latvia.
The Latvians saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet oppression: we rightly appall the idea that anyone could view the Nazis as liberators, but then we didn’t have our country extinguished by a huge foreign aggressor and weren’t persecuted by that agressor for 20 years.
There were plenty of people in the British Labour Party who still had a very soft spot for Soviet Russia 20 years ago, despite their dreadful oppressions. All political parties have their heroic myths which, when one scratches beneath the surface, turn out to be pretty unsavory.
The new grouping, as do all the other EP groupings, simply reflects the massive diversity of political opinion in the EU: one of the reasons sceptics think the whole project will never work.
106. I’m just getting sick and tired of reading the same old tripe every single day I come on here from Tim. If it had a new point behind it, fair enough. But it is blatant repetition, post after post. It’s frankly ridiculous.
Robinson said on Today that he thinks Nadine’s 3 Tory MPs line was about right - and he knew of one other…
He said Bercow had picked up votes with minority parties.
104 - They categorical said that at 10am this morning as the voice over on the VT, before cutting to Carswell.
As I explained, the BBC made a mistake. Not like they don’t make mistake on a fairly regular basis these days. Remember,
A “reath” for Remembrance Day covered by the BBC, who are funded by a “license” fee.
107 LOL, Jack! ‘The Sarsons Tendency’ - I love it!
It so aptly describes the sourpusses on here who do such a good job of dissuading the less-than-partisan from ever voting Conservative.
112 Andrew S. You deserve several weeks in ConHome for that !!
100. Spot on. As it happens I think Mike was right again yesterday when he talked about it being a generational as much as a political thing.
Speaking for myself I would be circumspect of anyone who fancied being Speaker, it’s just not a job I can imagine desiring and therefore I cannot understand the people who do. None of the applicants are ‘my type’ of politician and with the possible exception of the utterly delightful Bernard Wetherall (who I met several times) I can’t think of a recent speaker who is/was. In Bernards case I think he was the last speaker who had to be dragged to the chair for real.
Had I been there yesterday I would have voted for someone prepared to rip up the rule book and start over; I am not *sure* that person is Bercow but I am certain it wasn’t any of the other finalists.
115 - Carswell has been all over BBC news saying he supported Bercow.
Aspiring to be speaker as your ultimate aim in politics, is a bit like a kid saying he wants to be selected for the England football team when he grows up….as the magic sponge man.
117. Oh dear, as bad as that was it!
35.That Aberdeen council budget deficit just keeps getting bigger! How the hell did they get into that position?
112 - We did this the other night.
Not again please.
118 Thanks Marcus for those helpful and interesting comments.
Something to look forward to:
“UPDATE : Dale reminds Guido that Bercow promised that any minister who made an announcement to the media instead of the House first would be called to explain himself before parliament. Watch out for that, Guido’s money is on Ed Balls doing it first. Wonder what will happen if Mandelson does it…”
120 Surely being ref is the most appropriate comparison. Perhaps sponge man is the European commissioner role or Lib Dem leader?
123 - ironic.
No no no Mike, this will never do. You can’t defend a man against charges of being a dishonest oily greaser by saying he’s really a duplicitous calculating bastard. “The best policy for any Government is simplicity of heart” (Burke) - and that goes for Speakers too.
119 - Are you thick or something, or just don’t listen / can’t read properly like your Great Leader? Read all my posts in the past 10 mins, I first stated that (thanks to the incorrect BBC), then corrected myself after saying I had just looked at Carswell blog.
I said the BBC stated that in their report, they made a mistake, I relayed that on here, then corrected it…
121 Andrew S. Worse old chap !!
123. Fair enough, keep on smearing tim!
120 Oracle
That’s a strong analogy, but it would have been even better if you had said ‘referee’ rather than the derisory ’sponge man’.
There are people who, in their youth, aspire to be referees. I cannot imagine why, but they are genuine and, of course, very useful!
This is an interesting theory. However it falls down when you consider that the resignation of Speaker Martin could not have been predicted by Bercow. A year ago, the smart money would have been on Martin going after the next General Election - by which time the Tories would probably have a majority. Bercow’s carefully laid plans to woo the left would then count againts him!
112
Same goes for the Finns.
Finland fought a war against its more expansionist neighbour to the east, while the Second World War was overshadowing the thoughts of the West.
None of the BBC reports have made mistakes.
They’ve been reporting Carswell views since 7.30pm last night
See post 94.
115, you’re misremembering. It was a ‘reef’.
132 - I beg to differ slightly, I did initially think of saying referee, but then I changed my mind.
The referee isn’t appointed by the sides involved, he is truly independent. Also, the referee has an important role in the game, personally I just don’t see the speaker role as much more than ceremonial.
If a footy match was ref’ed by Michael Martin, it would be a 10-0 victory to the red team every games, probably thanks to a host of dodgy penalties and disallowed goals.
what time PMQs today ?
137 - Today?
137, it’s Tuesday…
137 - it’s tomorrow
Yes, but what happened to Poland’s gay elephant?
Pray he doesn’t end up like poor Topsy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_(elephant)
113 - numbertwelve. Remember that the reason tim goes on (and on and on etc.) about the smear subjects he has been assigned is so that we either attack him, or are forced to defend the Tories from his smears. Instead we are living through terrible times for the country, mainly inflicted wantonly or carelessly by this venal and incompetent Labour government. tim’s fear, and his paymaster’s fear is that without his distractions, as a group of people focusing on politics, we will turn our attention to the shambles of Labour and Brown, and thus doing may develop insights and other points that could be picked up in the MSM. tim’s role here is to stop that happening and to try to get his smears drip-drip-dripping into public consciousness. Remember keep telling the lie long enough and it is believed as the truth.
I know it is tempting to engage with him, and to slap him down, but he would be more hurt by focusing our ire on the real problems, shining a light on them and helping to bring this tragedy to an end
138. So later than I was expecting then ?
143, I wonder if Bercow will actually start and finish PMQs on time. Martin got pretty lax with it.
142 - What like,
University cuts meeting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/default.stm
Didn’t Eddie Balls lie again the other day about spending on education? Again talking about no cuts in education, when the budget clearly shows that to be false.
145 (cont) Or how about,
Head of Ofsted Christine Gilbert said too much teaching was “no better than satisfactory” and there was a big gap between the best schools and the rest.
146. Next update on the demise of Gordon Brown’s boom generator due on 3rd July :
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/hew/2008/dec/hew.gif
141 - ahh, Thomas Edison - git, thief and now killer of elephants.
More Sarah Brown coverage,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1194760/Sarah-Brown-welcomes-fashionable-First-Lady-youthful-Queen-Rania-Jordan-arrives-No-10.html
It amazing how we never heard a peep from her or basically ever saw her in the papers until Gordo’s polling ratings went through the floor isn’t it! What was that about family and props? Oh careful, here comes a cute little child into the room just as we are talking about children and props….
149 - it’s also amazing that, despite all this stories being in the media about her, I actually don’t think I’ve ever heard her speak. Ever…
149. Still wouldnt touch her with yours.
110. Peter The Punter:
Seeing as it was the title of the piece by Quentin Letts, I suggest you tell him that. All I was doing was was reproducing the title (that’s why it was in italics)……….
Or do you expect me to censor what is written in the newspapers?
Am I the only PBer who likes Carswell? I think he will make an excellent minister in due course.
I am interested to read what Marcus says on the subject of Speaker Bercow because frankly he is one of the few PBers who will hopefully be working with him as from this time next year!
I am a Nadine fan and frankly the odd maverick is good for Westminster. Holding a 12,000 plus majority she is clearly popular with her constituents regardless of what a few sniffy men think of her. As for Quentin Letts, the man is a total w*nker and should stick to writing witty columns or whatever he does. He is just the sort of upper class twit which has alientated the Tory party from the electorate for much of the past 15 years.
I agree with my fellow Tory jsfl that Bercow has been a chief trougher which sits ill with his new role but frankly there are so few in the current house. Interesting that he has just announced he will not claim an ALA while Speaker!
Maybe we can get back to serious politics. It’s time these lazy slobs at that power plant were crushed. they are damn lucky to have jobs. David Cameron needs to finish off the militant element in the trade unions, those which blatantly ignore the law.
Tim, just to keep you happy, I am delighted if an incoming Tory government restores the right of hunts to kill foxes. They are vermin not pretty little dog like creatures. Yes I have hunted, once. I enjoyed it tremendously and we didnt kill a single fox.
153 - “Interesting that he has just announced he will not claim an ACA while Speaker!”
Good. It should have been the case with the Speaker and Ministers who get free houses anyway, but that’s a step in the right direction certainly.
“141 - ahh, Thomas Edison - git, thief and now killer of elephants.”
Or, as he *never* said, “Genius is one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent appropriation — HURRY UP AND INVENT THAT MOTION PICTURE CAMERA, DICKSON!”
“I am a Nadine fan and frankly the odd maverick is good for Westminster. ”
She is indeed a very odd maverick.
I should add that while I did not like Speaker Martin because of his hypocritical attitude to many things, Quentin Letts caused deep offence by naming him “Gorbals Mick”. Glasgow’s working class still suffers from the religious intollerance so common among its cousins on the island of Ireland.
Incidentally I havent noticed many PBers congratulating Bercow for being the first Jewish Speaker, something David Cameron pointed out last night. Our only Jewish Tory PM was one of the “greats” so maybe Bercow will pleasantly surprise many.
153 - I don’t mind Carswell either, don’t agree with all of his politics, but at least he has some reasonable ideas and thoughts of his own, that he has spent some time thinking about, and is willing to stand by them come what may. Makes a change from the rows of jellyfish that seem to be the majority of “honourable” members.
More Carswells, Fields and their ilk please.
153 - Given the difficulty we have with foxes where I live (Lambeth), I’m waiting for someone to institute Urban Fox Hunting… presumably with mongrols, on BMX Bikes and wearing hoodies and baseball caps instead of red coats…
Many thanks to the pb poster who drew my attention to the FT interactive graphic on public spending.
157 - I personally don’t like the “congratulating” of anybody for being the first Jewish / Muslim / Sikh / Jedi whatever in politics. They should be there on merit and their faith for me is irrelevant to that.
161 - of course, but Tories should always make a fuss about it because the Tims of this world like to shake the racist and elitist stick at them about everything. The fact that they have had the first woman PM doesn’t seem to matter to many of the angry lefties.
On topic, yes, clearly all his opinions over the past 5 years were just a cunning and devious ploy to become Speaker of the House.
But what’s more impressive than this dedicated, single-minded subterfuge is the way he bribed that US blogger to make Freedom of Information Act requests to cause the unprecedented resignation of the current speaker, without which there would never have been a vacancy while there was a Labour majority in the first place.
87. At least the Scottish Lib Dems didn’t lose an MEP, like the Scottish Tories.
And before you blame it on the reduction in MEPs from 7 to 6, the Scottish Tories would still have lost the 2nd MEP without the reduction (the SNP getting more than 1.5 times the Tories’ vote).
153. I know Carswell, very sound chap who’s ideas are becoming part of the political mainstream.
112. The Nazi-Soviet pact was a master-stroke for Stalin. Advancing his border several hundred miles to the west at the expense of Poland in 1939 probably saved Moscow from German capture in 1941. Imagine if the Barbarossa jump-point was just west of Minsk, instead of Brest-Litovsk.
BTW:
O/T Well it’s taken me over a year but as of yesterday I have finally visited every railway station within the M25! (oh, plus the five London Underground stations outside the M25)
162 - Don’t be silly.
I’ve said on numerous occasions on here that the fact that there are now openly gay politicians on the front bench of the Conservative Party reflects well on the Party and the country.
re 91. I think you have a very strange view of Latvian history - a country that was devastated both by the Nazis and Soviet Russia. The latter stayed a lot longer and were probably more evil. So inevitably that period figures largely still in their sense of national consciousness.
So please keep off the subject - you are just cherry picking so called facts to back your case up. In doing so you are showing up your own lack of historical awareness.
No more please.
Berlusconi has now shortened to 4/1 on the Dole Derby. Brown at 10/11.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&category=SPECIALS&disp_cat_id=56&ev_class_id=33&ev_type_id=11684
On topic - I thought Bercow came across as rather humorous in his speech yesterday, but not sure if that would appropriate for his new job! I agree that he will not now be in a position to attack Cameron from the Left - but how come he was able to fool the good people of Buckingham for so long?
153. Easterross.
Firstly Bercow now gets a Grace N’ Favour home so any ACA would be adding insult to injury (just as Brown and others do). I’m afraid that one was a no-brainer for a savvy political operator like Bercow.
On Carswell, I’m afraid this was another strike for me (his second). There is something I don’t like about about him touting his constitutional views around for a tenner (his response when challenged on this was far inferior to Hannan’s). For me ‘The Plan’ only provides some of the solutions. Other proposals in it I think are highly questionable.
I’ve had some direct dealings online with him and he comes across as arrogant. He was also unimpressive in his TV interviews over the vote of no confidence of Martin and yesterday IMO was another blot on his copybook in judgement terms in voting for Bercow (who seems the total opposite of his preferred candidate Richard Shepherd).
I’m a big fan of Hannan’s who really seems to get it but Carswell I view as no more than Hannan’s batman and I get the feeling that Carswell is too immersed in the Paliamentary institution to understand fully what needs to be done to restore Parliament.
He may be a good Minister in time but I don’t see any signs of it at the moment.
167 - well okay then
157 Perhaps it’s just me but what religious persuasion Bercow has is of zero interest. He could be a Druid for all the difference it should make to his election.
I agree with you about the needs for mavericks - my concern with Nadine is that she does more harm than good by going so OTT/media tarting.
There is also an interesting “First Permanent President of the EU Council” market
Tony Blair 9/4
José Manuel Barroso 10/1
Nicolas Sarkozy 18/1
Anders Fogh Rasmussen 7/2
Gerhard Schröder 12/1
Angela Merkel 20/1
Jean-Claude Juncker 4/1
Bertie Ahern 14/1
Gordon Brown 20/1
Guy Verhofstadt 5/1
Jacques Chirac 16/1
Silvio Berlusconi 25/1
Aleksander Kwasniewski 10/1
http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&category=SPECIALS&disp_cat_id=56&ev_class_id=33&ev_type_id=9389
157. Go back to the thread - I was one of the first to point out that the new Speaker would be a Jew, maybe the first Jew as Speaker.
I even said Mazel Tov to this devious and truncated Rumpelstiltskin we now have as a Speaker.
Oh no, just heard Bercow is going to wear a suit at PMQs.
Gordon at Mansion House all over again.
Commiserations to the excellent Sir George Young who got 271 votes last night and the support of at least 90 MPs votes from other parties - including some honorable Labour and Lib Dem votes.
Well done Sir George. The second time you have been unfairly defeated.
Sir George would - and should - have won this time. I expect he would have were it not for his title and educational background.
My heart goes out to him: a man of utmost probity and impartiality. A man who would have restored dignity and respect to the House.
Let us also bear in mind there were less than 30 MPs votes in it and, also, that a majority of the House of Commons *did not* vote for Mr. Bercow. He was short by 2 votes.
Bercow could have the support of less than 200 MPs after the next election.
I hope Sir George gets a 3rd chance.
174. An interesting race that one (assuming it happens of course!). The federalists will want a big name who will be recognised on the world stage as the face of “Europe”, which means someone from the big four countries. None of them, however, will be happy accepting someone from one of the others so it will probably be like the ECB when the first chairman was from one of the smaller countries (the Netherlands).
I doubt it will be Juncker (Luxembourg is too small and definitely too integrationist for Britain’s taste). I wouldn;t be surprised if it was another Dutchman, a Spaniard (perhaps Zapatero if he is out of office in Spain) or maybe even Brian Cowanif he successfully pilots through the second Lisbon referendum. Many countires will owe him big if he succeeds on that.
178 Seconded.
176. “Oh no, just heard Bercow is going to wear a suit at PMQs.”
Oh FFS.
Why not attend in Jeans and a T-Shirt with “Rage against the Machine” written on it and two-days stubble?
I think the proverbial donkey would win in Buckingham with a blue rosette on. A convicted serial killer would probably still save their deposit.
178 If the “wind of change” extends to getting Gordon to answer at least one bloody unplanted question, it will be a decent trade…
F*cking idiot. These stupid twats. Don’t they understand we LIKE our parliamentary traditions. It’s the amoral careerism and endless thieving of our MPs we despise.
This is just so New Labour, wear a suit and dump the wig and you’ve transformed the institution - and all is well - then everything can carry on the same underneath.
Shallow, shallow, shallow, shallow.
Look at the monarchy, that has survived a thousand years, and is still largely admired, because they keep the pretty but important ceremonial trappings and transform the institution underneath. That’s how to evolve and survive.
Grrrr.
176 - what? Even Martin wore the garb!
157. “Glasgow’s working class still suffers from … religious intolerance”
You make it sound as if it’s a condition over which they have no control.
184. It’s the speakers prerogative to determine the costume they wear. What is the problem exactly with him wearing a suit?
187 - Bercow isn’t a “wind of change”, he’s the weathervane.
164 Alan, you are quite correct but at least your new SLD Euro MEP can run courses for his Westminster colleagues on how to rebuild your career after being turfed out by the electorate. He has recent experience of this from losing his “safe” seat in Argyll in 2007.
You and I will just have to agree to differ on the fate of our respective parties in Scotland at the GE. To PBers like Stuart Dickson, Christina, Marcia and me, GE 2005 and Scottish elections 2003 were your party’s high water mark in Scotland and now for you the only way is down. If I am wrong in 12 months time I will apologise and say you were correct and I was wrong.
http://tinyurl.com/ckmmel
189. Actually both Boothroyd and Martin changed the costume, both removing aspects of it.
190. Is there a sectarian aspect to voting patterns in Glasgow? Genuine curiosity.
185. Perhaps they haven’t had time to make one Bercow’s size? It would look hilarious were he made to wear Martin’s outfit.
re 137 now that would be something if Bercow’s first act was cancelling Blair’s decision to evade scrutiny.
“The Scottish Lib Dems are regularly written off, but the fact is that they continue to have strong support in their own areas and of course far more MPs than the SNP does in Scotland.”
by Cicero June 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 am
Scottish Lib Dems have control of 0 councils. Just like the Welsh LDs.
192. It is the wrong kind of wind! just look at (194) and you will rease it does not just mean a bad taste in the mouth but violent headmovents away!
187. Genuine question, has any speaker (and any modern speaker) intervened in such a way at PMQs?
197. Do they make them in kids sizes?
;o)
197 If Augusta can get the Green Blazer that is the right fit within five minutes of the winner completing the 18th, surely there is a tailor who could rustle up something in 24 hours…
If we are using sporting analogies today, I feel the Tory party found themselves in the same position as Mike Gatting in Pakistan. They understand and revere the gentlemanly conventions but eventually the biased umpire just goes too far.
re 151 too much teaching was “no better than satisfactory”
Well Oracle that’s good news to hear. Of course it could be utterly depressing that the chief inspector seems completely oblivious to what “satisfactory” actually means.
202. No doubt Bercows first act of speaker will be to get one urinal in each of the gents lowered to accomadate stumpy members!
173 - Mike.
We’ll have to differ on the role of the Nationalist Latvians in the Holocaust.
But point take your point and won’t refer again.
To combine two stories.
one . Wibbler, got on at 5/1 on Berlusconi, great bet I think and when my wife finds me looking at photos of Berlusconis parties I shall have a very good excuse.
two.On of the Conservatives new allies is alos getting dragged into the scandal.
Look away now anyone delicate (and feel free to edit mike)
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/92599
206. Sorry should say No doubt Bercows first act of speaker will be to get one urinal in each of the gents lowered to accomadate *Short* stumpy members!
Me thinks “Call Me Dave” will be quite pleased this morning with Bercow out of the way from causing problems on the backbenches.
“Call me Dave” will also be looking for Bercow being on best behaviour towards the Tories or “Call me Dave” will have him removed after the next election.
Gordon on WatO today Waugh thinks its more reform stuff
173 - Mike.
We’ll have to differ on the role of the Nationalist Latvians in the destruction of Latvian Jews.
But point take your point and won’t refer again.
To combine two stories.
one . Wibbler, got on at 5/1 on Berlusconi, great bet I think and when my wife finds me looking at photos of Berlusconis parties I shall have a very good excuse.
two.On of the Conservatives new allies is alos getting dragged into the scandal.
Look away now anyone delicate (and feel free to edit mike)
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/92599
Tim forgot to mention the Polish homophobes. Guess, that will be tomorrow’s part of the double whammy.
196-And more interestingly - There used to be, Orange being Unionist (Conservative), and Catholic Labour. Think Labour then started scooping up most of the vote from 1970 (?) until the SNP’s recent rebirth. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they are seen as a “Protestant party” but not sure to what extent they attract Catholic votes in the West of Scotland.
Not sure of Glasgow NE is a Catholic seat, but my guess is yes. But again, not sure how Catholic…
Maybe they could find a pair of tights short enough to fit Berky?
211.Maybe they couldn’t find a pair of tights short enough to fit Berky?
Here, look at this evil robot (from a 1950s ‘Superboy’ comic):
http://www.superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=470:hate-tapes&catid=33:weird-science-index&Itemid=37
If this was a Tory robot, its tapes would say, “Hate Brown. Hate Bercow. Hate hate hate.”
Peter Oborne on sky “he maybe acceptable to the cheats and frauds that voted him in but he is not acceptable to the public.
Sir Michael White is defending Bercow.
190 David sadly they dont. The law of the herd is bred into them. After all only last week we had a Rangers fan lose his appeal against his conviction for singing “the famine song”. The sectarian hatred within Glasgow’s working class is the one nasty thing their ancestors imported from Ireland.
Even as recently as a fortnight ago in a pub in the city centre I was asked by a complete stranger what team I supported in order for him to find out my religion. He didn’t quite know what to make of me when I replied Ross County. He has probably never heard of Ross-shire or been north of Stirling in his life.
Around Parkhead many of the houses display the Irish national flag and around a mile down the road at Bridgeton Cross the pubs have the Union Jack flying outside. Some of the pubs around the famous open market “The Barras” have green shamrocks painted on the outside to leave potential patrons in no doubt which side of the sectarian divide it supports. It is tragic and sadly shows little or no sign of dying out.
191. Because we are a monarchy. The whole point of monarchies is that they preserve the best and most beautiful of the past and allow slow interior evolution within a semblance of reassuring continuity: thus avoiding revolution.
Dumping the pinchbeck shoes is just trivial, at best, and reveals the wrong mindset. If you wanna change something - change how MPs and ministers behave, not what kind of hosiery is adopted by the First Commoner in the Land.
Maybe the Pope should wear cycling shorts when he next says urbi et orbi.
Report on UKPollingReport of a new MORI poll with headline voting inention figures of;
CON 38%(-2) LAB 21%(+3) LIB DEM 19%(+1) Con Lead 17%
Agree with those saying that we should wait and see how John Bercow performs in the role (of course, we have no choice).
I understand that there are various reasons why people lament this choice but I’d be wary of saying things like “Labour knew we didn’t want him and they voted for him anyway, which only goes to show what [insert epithet] Labour MPs are”. It’s not the mission of the Labour Party to vote in a way that pleases the Tories, and while it would have been preferable to have a candidate with cross-party support, that point is better made by neutrals.
Besides, the sour grapes response is not good for the Tory image. Show us that you put country above party. Wish Speaker Bercow well and, if he’s an egregious failure, deal with that as an unpleasant necessity, should it arise. I intend to vote for you, but I want to see you focussing on the nation’s problems, not saying “Ha! First chance we get, we’ll hold another election for Speaker.” Imo, that would be descending to the current government’s level.
Well its been an interesting 24 hours. Am amazed by the reaction from the Tory benches to Bercow. Apparently he’s only there because of a Labour whips plot - 24 hours earlier Beckett was going to win because of a Labour whips plot. Well come on - which is it?
So now he is apparently toast after the expected Tory election victory. Anyone here 5 Live after 10pm last night? Tory PPC for Corby frothing about the new speaker being biased, getting so excited that she called a Tory supporter a liar to his face for the “crime” of objecting to her frothing. If she gets in (and she will against Phil No Hope), then is she what we can expect on the Tory benches?
So, they will remove Bercow for being biased and replace him with a better Tory candidate who agrees with them. In otherwords a biased speaker. Is this really the way its going to be - the speaker now being a political pawn imposed for tactical gain by the governing party? How long until public demands for the speaker to be an apolitical outsider?
Speaking of Jewish conspiracy theories - how about Iranian TV’s guide to Hollywood brainwashing
Re 218. Others still at an extremely high 22% with MORI.
Confirmation of the poll by Sky
http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:e05a61ab-f960-434c-adbe-0c317c2b1bec
“5 reasons why the Conservatives are wrong about Bercow”
http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2009/06/the-conservatives-are-wrong-to-react-as-they-have-to-john-bercow—i-realise-that-many-labour-mps-voted-for-bercow-just-to-a.html
GIN[218]. I feel a Bar Chart coming on. Only the Lib Dems can beat the Tories here.
[199] Scotland elects councils under proportional representation so there are very few councils that are under the control of a single party. In fact The Scottish Lib Dems are part of the administration in several councils- including Aberdeen, as Stuart keeps noting
215. Isn’t it amazing that you can get tribal Labour types like Michael White supporting Bercow? Bercow is exactly the kind of Tory hacks like White used to pillory - the archetypal Essex Man of Thatcher’s day they dubbed greedy and self-serving. But Labour finds it convenient to back Bercow, so White gives him the thumbs up. We are living in very weird political times.
Given IPSOS Mori accentuates swings I reckon the relatively small shifts are not hugely significant - but Labour should take a tiny grain of comfort in the green shoots, I guess.
191. Because it denegrates the authority of the chair.
The cloths represent the unique position he holds as Speaker of the House and reminds everyone of its historic importance.
You could make the same “doesn’t matter” argument about anything. The Mace, Black Rod, Lawyers wigs, Judges robes, The Crown; why bother?
They’re all there for a reason. They symbolise the serious historic authority of the position and Bercow is making light of it - and insulting it.
Very bad start. But I’m not surprised.
Well, well, well. tim offering some praise to George Osborne. I do think he’s the most over-criticised person in the Tory Party. Comes across as a more convincing moderniser than Cameron. He ‘got’ it and realised that the Tories need to support Bercow. You don’t put a Speaker ‘on probation’.
There’s an interesting psychology about all this. Why would so many Tories prefer a Labour loyalist like Beckett to a less than loyal one of their own? People tend to have less animousity towards opponents than towards those who they feel have betrayed them. Bercow is not pro-labour, he isn’t going to be a pushover for Brown, so what do the Tories have to complain about? Absolutely nothing from what I can see. I wonder if they are just trying to scare Bercow because they want some useless patsy in the chair for when they enter Government.
If Bercow is shrewd and shows some backbone I think he can hold them off. And so what if he is vain and self-important. Sound like good qualities in a Speaker to me.
GIN - those +/- figures are wrong. The last MORI was on the 14th June and was 39/25/19. So the change here is actually -1/-4/0.
Interestingly, that last poll was the one that showed the Labour vote zooming up 7 points from 18. Perhaps it was too optimistic…
197. “185. Perhaps they haven’t had time to make one Bercow’s size?”
Knowing Bercow, I expect he got his own one years ago. He’s probably been practicing in front of the mirror with it for months.
There was some evidence in the recent polls that “Others” were beginning to deflate, but certainly with this poll it seems not. Could it be that last weeks “redacted debacle” has bolstered Others once again?
I think we’ll be getting YouGov/Telegraph on Thursday, so that should tell us more?
Many of you will recall the pertinent and informative postings from SBS. Unfortunately, he is not doing at all well at the moment; I understand that he is now in a hospice and will not be receiving any further treatment for his tumour.
When I hear further details I will let you know.
232 LOL
196 Sunil yes sadly there is though the SNP seems in recent elections to have broken the tradition. Until the early 1980s the Tories in Glasgow had as many as 20 councillors, today we have 1 I think. Many of those 20 were in the heart of the East End of Glasgow. the thing they had in common was a strong local branch of the Orange Order.
When I stood against the late David Hay in Glasgow Baillieston/Shettleston in 1982 my nomination forms were signed by the recently retired Tory councillor for Garrowhill. He was a “big noise” in the Orange Order and it was reckoned his signature on my nomination paper was worth at least 500 votes alone.
As I say things have changed to the extent that recently the Archbishop and Bishops in the West of Scotland and their Cardinal in Edinburgh have been telling people to vote SNP because many SNP MSPs who are Roman Catholic are strongly anti-abortion. Until this past decade in Glasgow/West of Scotland the Labour party just took the view that the Roman Catholic church was the Labour party at prayer the same way the church of England used to be described as the Tory party at prayer.
Don’t know if someone posted:
“We might as well get used to Speaker Bercow”
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/benedict_brogan/blog/2009/06/23/we_might_as_well_get_used_to_speaker_bercow
219, 220.
Derrrr. You don’t understand. Tories threatening Bercow now are just firing a warning shot across his dimunitive Levantine bows. A reminder to the First Homonculus in the Land that he better tread carefully or he could get chucked out.
And the Tories could easily do it - they could say we are bringing in an outsider as Speaker, a non MP, or we are going to give the new Honest Parliament a say, etc.
However I suspect Bercow is clever and selfinterested enough to realise this - and he will be fairer to Tories, than many now reckon.
He didn’t get where he is today by annoying the powers-that-be; now he has to think of the powers-that-will-be. I’m guessing he will be properly mindful.
215 Interesting as Sir Michael isn’t that sure in his Guardian piece
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/jun/23/john-bercow-opportunist-or-reformer
222 - Iranian Press TV are employing George Galloway.
He’s doing a great job of defending the Iranian System, and the recent elections.
http://www.shiatv.net/view_video.php?viewkey=2578e5e627cd93ab0938
Five minutes into this clip he lectures a black South African who complains that candidates in Iran have to be approved by the Mullahs.
224 Me. Good link and excellent piece by Finkelstein. I especially recommend it to Sarson Conservatives.
234. Oh god that’s f*cking awful. A dark dark cloud.
Don’t know what to say. Sympathies seem insubstantial, to put it politely.
228 A green shoot? Labour rising up to 21% is a green shoot?
LOL.
234 Augustus Carp
Please let him know that he is in our thoughts.
MORI NOTE
I’m unable to confirm the poll but I will get a thread up as soon as I can.
If the quoted numbers are accurate the comparisons with the last MORI poll, taken just a week earlier, are very bad for Labour. They were on 25% - that’s now down to 21%.
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/06/16/labour-out-of-the-teens-with-ipsos-mori/
226 Cicero yes the SLD are in coalition ina handful of Scottish councils but the Tories run south Ayrshire, are the largest party in East Renfrewshire, the major coalition partner in both Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders councils and in coaltion in 6 others including Aberdeenshire where they are with the LibDems.
Very sorry to hear about SBS. Puts everything into perspective. If possible send him my best wishes. Will raise a pint to him next time I am in Weatherspoons!
244
Ditto, very sorry to hear he is not so well. I am sure all PB’ers send their best wishes
234, I’m really sorry to hear that
Please let him know we’re all thinking of him.
229. Lets take wigs for example, the speakers wig was got rid of by Boothroyd who is widely credited as being an very good speaker.
244 - I was wondering how he was doing only last night. Wish him all the best, Augustus.
234 - oh, now that’s just awful. Very sorry to hear that.
So far, Bercow has:
(1) Contemptiously failed to attend the Speaker photoshoot because he was too busy getting his hair cut
(2) When he won actually had to initially be restrained from running to the chair; rather than dragged to it
(3) Beamed and fawned over Labour praise
(4) Dismissed the robes of office in favour of a suit
That’s in 24 hours.
We’ve got 10 years of this BERK?
234 Augustus
Sad news indeed.
Gordon Brown on World at One on R4.
253, if he doesn’t perform well he’ll be axed long before then.
If he does we can all be pleasantly surprised. Tomorrow’s PMQs could prove enlightening, one way or the other.
208. I would laugh my head off tommorrow if Cameron used PMQs strategically to shoot booth Turkeys (Brown & Bercow) with one Bullet. Something like this; Brown as is obvious will look to gloat position and do to Bercow what he has done to Obama! No not call Bercow a beach but fawn over him probably in response to each question.
So Cameron armed with the likelyhood of Brown doing this about Bercow and trying to point score can link all this manouvering for jobs by saying parliament should be worried about how this is perceived in the country. Recently we have watched a comedy resuffle and Labour MPs openly more interested in saving their own jobs rather than those of LDV or C & G! Added to that Cameron could say that he is aware that a new Ventraliquiste has been installed (Mandelson) but the Ventraliquist Dummy is still in number 10. and any attempt to exchange the dummy for a less shop soiled one will result in the same unelected Voice/ Message.
Would Bercow allow Cameron to equate Brown to a Dummy? That would be the test - An open goal against Brown as he is a joke anyway but will Bercow shout “Order” etc?
234. God. That’s terrible, terrible news Augustus.
Please let him know he’s in my thoughts too.
234 Augustus. Absolutely bloody desperate news.
I’m welling up …. Fuc*ing disease !!
I cant find the details on UK polling, Gin at 218said they were up there. Is it me or has it been taken down?
Richard N: the Post Office Bill has been feeling the stress a bit and is having a nice lie down in the long grass. It will return at some point,presumably before the session ends in October (there’s always a final bit before the Queen’s Speech).
221. “Islam - a Zionist Conpiracy?”
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.politics.misc/msg/b0acfaeaf19a2473?hl=en
The above is taken from a now defunct website called “Freethought Mecca”.
First post. Long time lurker…
Details of the new poll are at:
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/content/home-page-news/more-expecting-economy-to-improve-than-at-any-poin.ashx
169. NoOffenceAlan
I suggest you check your arithmetic as it looks wrong in a scenario where one assumes 7 Scottish MEPs. I think the Nats would have needed twice the Tory vote to have stopped them getting their 2nd MSP.
re 260 The poll figures are in a comment on the current UKPR thread.
What makes me a tad cautious is that usually the firm emails me as soon as a new poll is out - and that hasn’t happened.
So it we get confirmation then I’ll do a piece.
260 - it’s in the top post. Someone must have watched Sky and posted the figures.
I didn’t get the benefit of reading SBS’s comments for long but they were always well worth it. My thoughts and sympahies are with him.
264 Mike Smithson
Surely Sky can count as an authoritative source?
This was posted on Boulton’s blog
http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:e05a61ab-f960-434c-adbe-0c317c2b1bec
261 Thanks Nick. I can understand why it is keeping a low profile at the moment.
234. Augustus Carp
Really sorry to here that. My best wishes to him.
The mori figures are confirmed at 223 there is a blog by Glen O’Glaza
257. I heartily dislike Bercow but I believe the smart thing for Cameron to do now is love bomb the guy. Everytime Labour big him up as a reformer they are saying something positive about a Conservative. There’s a tactical advantage there that should not be squandered. The worst way to deal with Bercow is to give him the oxygen of Conservative party opposition. That’s a quick way to give the impression of a divided party for the media to lap up just when the heat was on Labour. It’s very rare for the BBC (courtesy of Brown’s low tricks) to back a Tory. Why not take some political advantage from that, instead of falling into a Labour laid trap?
270 - though he has based the +/- on last month’s MORI, rather than the most recent.
234. Augustus, please give SBS my very best wishes, I would love to email him privately if you have an address where such email can be sent. Please assure him of my thoughts and also my prayers.
229. You could make the same “doesn’t matter” argument about anything. The Mace, Black Rod, Lawyers wigs, Judges robes, The Crown; why bother?
You could make that argument about anything that has no practical function, yes. Indeed, why bother with these things? Other countries seem to manage without them. But perhaps they encourage tourists to come and gawk at our quaintness or something.
216/236. Thanks for that. I ask because I’ve been following the situation in Northern Ireland for many years and even produced these so-called “sectarian headcount maps” for CAIN:
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/2001religionwardsni2.jpg
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/2001religionwardsbelfast2.jpg
According to this article, Bercow is still going to wear the gown:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8114086.stm
Perhaps not the lawyers’ bands, however, which Martin did. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the standard day-to-day outfit of the Speaker doesn’t include tights? It’s the gold-trimmed one for special occasions that does…
234. AC
Re Wibblers post. Indeed please pass on that we are thinking of him……
234. Very sorry to hear that. A much valued contributor to the site.
234 - Very sad news.
274 - the main argument for legal dress being kept when the Bar Council did a recent consultation was that it contributed to the atmosphere of a courtroom. This might sound pithy, but when you think about it, it does make sense. You want courtrooms to seem a bit imposing, dripping in historical and a bit other-worldly - so people feel slightly pressured and overwhelmed by it. That’s why, despite some wanting to get rid of it all, what they ended up with was a simplified judge robe for family and civil courts - barristers and everyone in criminal trials keeps the old kit.
new thread//////////////////////////////////////////
Brown f*cking lying again. He seems to think the public want to wait and see the results of his policies.
The reason why left wing Conservatives dislike Bercow as much as right wing Conservatives do is his sycophancy towards the government. An issue which Danny Finklestein doesn’t address.
Still, he’s been elected, and we just have to live with that. In the scheme of things, it doesn’t matter much. Unless he’s really awufl in the role of Speaker, it would just look petulant to vote him out after the next election.
271. Interesting view on it!
Brown will try and gloat/ take the glory!
What i was infering is that Brown is like usual more interested in whats going on in parliament rather than his policies of economic failure in the country!
Worth reposting:
SBS on Happiness and Stress Scroll down to May 11th.
Starts:
“On September 11th 2008, when I was diagnosed with this brain tumour, my life changed utterly. I was extremely happy with life and “my lot” up to this point. But then on, I realised I would have to be “happy” with a lot less. The “happy” benchmark is a lot lower than it was eight months ago. Nevertheless, there are enough happy moments.”
Worth rereading the whole piece.
282. Personally i have experienced his policies and he can get on his bike!
286. You are wrong Martin just one in twenty possible voters backing his party is a mandate to carry on! The man is nuts.
NEW THREAD!
To all silly Tory boys.
Attacking Jack W and Peter the Punter will do you litle good; its rather like spitting at a statue of the Virgin Mary in a Catholic Church.
Keep yelling and screaming at anyone who upsets you, I’m sure your words are currently being taken down by a NuLabour mole and will be used in evidence at the next General Election as representing the ugly face of Beautiful Dave’s party.
242 I think SeanT spoke for all of us about Sam.
Pass on all our best wishes will you AC.
234
I’m so sorry to hear that news.
285 Icarus. Perhaps you might repost that comment on the new thread.
289 Malcolm. Hhmmmm …. thanks Malcolm but I’m a little rattled by the comparison with the Virgin Mary !! …. I can’t speak for Peter the Punter although his interest in ladies garments is well known !!
Strangely, I was just thinking about SBS earlier today and wondered how he was getting on. The fact that we had not heard much news of him recently did concern me. I would be grateful if Augustus could add my kind regards to SBS, along with all the others.
He doesn’t seem bright enough to have thought through and carried out such a plan.
88. Easterross: actually, the Euro-results for Edinburgh South put the Lib Dems second, 78 votes behind the Tories, and about a thousand ahead of Labour and the SNP (see http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/Council/Elections/CEC_european_elections_09 and then click on Summation of Edinburgh count area results (PDF)). Given that the Scottish Tories generally do better than average in Euro-elections, and the Scottish Lib Dems generally do worse than average, I’d say it would be unwise to write off Lib Dem chances in Edinburgh South just yet.
196. Easterross and others have already answered this point, but it’s worth adding that the very welcome decline in sectarian voting in the west of Scotland has been a two-way process: not only did (the historically Catholic) Labour start winning Protestant working-class votes in large numbers from the 1970s onwards, but the candidature of Gerry Malone (ex-St Aloysius College) at the Hillhead by-election in 1982 offered proof that middle-class Glaswegian Catholics could stand for the (historically Protestant) Conservatives. Interestingly, the SNP, whilst able to gather votes from Protestants and Catholics alike, do best among atheists and agnostics.
211. Peter2′: yes, Glasgow NE is historically a strongly Catholic seat, with a Protestant enclave in Dennistoun - though the latter (and probably the former) are far more secular than a generation or two back.