Will my mate Pat ask a planted question?
June 24th, 2009
Or will be continue his customary independence?
Pictured above is Pat Hall, MP for Bedford since 1997, my general election opponent in 1992 and my colleague for adjoining divisions on Bedfordshire county council from 1989-1996.
Today at the first post-Michael Martin PMQs he’s down to ask the first question and I wonder whether he’ll succumb to the whips and ask a planted one?
Although we are of different parties Pat is generally a good guy and I was delighted when the Daily Telegraph gave him a clean bill of health on his expenses - something that sets him apart from the Prime Minister and the new speaker.
Pat’s resolve on this issue is commendably strong. At the first speaker hustings last week he was the one who put a tricky question to the contenders on expenses.
Let’s hope that at this lunchtime’s historic PMQs Pat is his own man and asks what he wants to ask - not something that has been written for him by the unsubtle goons in Nick Brown’s whipping operation. Brown (N) it will be recalled “claimed £18,800, without receipts, in expenses for food over four years”.
For if the commons is to change then the prerequisite is for the whips of all parties to have their powers curbed. That requires MPs like Pat to say “No”. Let’s hope he can make at least a gesture today.
Mike Smithson
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First
Second
Third
That was rather abrupt.
Bored now …
The new thread I mean.
1 - 3. I now know how East German swimming teams felt !!
Very sad to hear of SBS’s outcome. A worthy adversary for anyone who wishes to post on here. The best that pb.com can be.
Odd how we can get emotional over a person we only know from their exchanges on here. A true testimonial for the community that you have created here, Mike.
Is PMQ’s 30 minutes early because of Wimbledon?
Planted questions are just an affront to decent running of parliment and the accountability of government. Asking a Prime Minster as evasive as Brown to give congratulations to a local football team, or celebrate the opening of a new school is a waste of parliments time.
The speaker should stamp it out if at all possible.
FPT
221. This is also crucial. We are now seeing the first tentative signs of a double dip recession:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aad398c8-5fd6-11de-a09b-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1
If the Eurozone recovery stalls - or goes into reverse - will the UK really be able to beat the trend? I doubt it, especially with our monstrous levels of debt.
Darling’s forecasts of growth for 2H2009-2010 are looking decidedly fragile. This could be a long nasty slowdown, even nastier than we feared. How low will Labour’s support go, if the recession is prolonged?
Ulp.
11. You’ve mellowed.
12. I used to be poor and angry. Now I’m rich and conscience-stricken.
“1 - 3. I now know how East German swimming teams felt !! ;-)”
by Jack W June 24th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Why? Are you undergoing a sex change? Are your man boobs becoming more feminine?
To my knowledge Patrick has been a good hardworking constituency mp, and I am sure there are others. He has helped me and two or three people of my acquaintance. He should be valued and I hope he is re-elected. Certainly I will support him although I basically loathe New Labour.
10. Planted questions are part of how Parliament works. More than half the MPs support the Government so most of them naturally want to ask questions that are supportive of the Government. There are planted questions the othger way as well. The Opposition whips discuss with Opposition members what sort of questions they should ask. As with the Government benches some agree to this, some don’t.
Virtually every MP puts down for a question to the PM every week so when they get drawn they may not have a specific local or national issue they want to ask. it is natural then for them to ask what might be most helpful for their party for them to ask.
The “football team” is not a Whip question but one which allows the backbenchers to get in the local paper: all part of being a modern MP unfortunately.
And of course that means an end to the ludicrous second home allowance, which allows MPs like Mr Hall, who lives on one of the best commuter routes into London, to buy a second property at taxpayer’s expense.
13 Very New Labour.
15. He won’t be re-elected.
11 The recession is the least of our problems. People get fixated on GDP growth. The killer stats are around debt, unemployment, negative equity, pensions and interest rates (which will be going back up again soon). You’re probably not wrong about the recession being arse shaped though.
14 TC. I only take advice on man boobs from Peter the Punter. He’s a source of extensive knowledge on the subject and other gender related issues.
Nadine’s ambushing of the PM was a wonderful example of the planted question tactic back-firing beautifully - hope the Tories do that more often.
16:
The “football team” is not a Whip question but one which allows the backbenchers to get in the local paper: all part of being a modern MP unfortunately
All that is ‘wrong’ with being a local MP in my book. Of course the questions are by and large going to be ‘helpful’ but when you get MP’s trying to suck up to their consituants in such as crass, obvious and fake way, it really annoys me. It’s only there for the benefit of the MP not the people they represent.
18. Yes, it’s a worry. I might end up with a huge house in Islington writing agonised and sensitive novels about my immigrant cleaner whose name I can’t remember.
We talk a lot about the Cameron/media/poll rating factor - how about this one for comparison - Judy Dench swears and complaints rise…
“It [BBFC] put the complaints about one minor swear word in Quantum Of Solace down to the “Judi Dench factor”.
“This beloved actress plays M, Bond’s tough-talking boss. However, it was her tough talking which upset the viewers,” it said.
“Almost every time Dame Judi swears in a film, regardless of its category, we can expect a number of complaints.”
24. If you do then please stop posting here - one Roger is enough.
24. You forgot “and listen to Joni Mitchell records”
17: I need to check on this, but I think Patrick shares a flat with another mp. If so would that not be reasonable?
20. I am on the dole and see no uptick in recruitment! You would expect that to be a lagging indicator.
I cannot see anything but another dip coming on. This is because Petrol prices at the pumps have jumped by a fifth from there base IIRC. A low of 80P Now we are all over £1.00 so it would seem.
Secondly Mortgage Interest rates are in most cases much above 0.5%. Banks are using large marginas to recapitalise. Other things such as Overdraft rates and Credit Card rates are testement to this!
Thirdly Taxation. The UK public finances are that appalling borring £20Billion in one month alone that Tax is going to have to rise and spending cut. The proportions of which the electorate will decide shortly.
So that is why the UK is looking at being up shit crick for many years to come.
Brown has strangled not just the engine of growth but sabotaged future growth prospects by leaving no room for lowering the burden of taxation.
24 “If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us”
Hesse
“the Daily Telegraph gave him a clean bill of health on his expenses - something that sets him apart from the Prime Minister and the new speaker. ”
And the Leader of the Opposition.
20. I hope the OECD have factored in the 50p phone tax - it will fix our deficit ills surely ?
Cameron can quote the OECD stuff at PMQs but he will be crushed by a wave of tractor stats.
23. I agree completely. Unfortunately, MPs are more and more concerned with being seen to do stuff in the constieuncy rather than in Westminster. This is encouraged by the Government who would rather MPs were opening fetes and supermarkets in their constieuncies and getting their faces in the local press than in Westminster scrutinising government, which is what they are supposed to do. This was summed up by Harriet Harman recently who when questioned about why the House wasn;t sitting in September replied that every day they spend in Westminster is a day not spent with their constieuents. A remark i thought either shcokingly cynical or shockingly ignorant of the role purpose of MPs.
In part is a consequence of the rise of the Liberal Democrats, who, knowing that they will never form a government, exist only to increase the number of the Lib Dem MPs and therefore are very active locally and stress the importance of an MP being local and being seen locally. The other parties have reacted to this threat by making their MPs and candidates become involved locally much more.
Some of this is good: it is good that MPs are more connected to their constituents but a lot of an MPs’ work nowadays is taken up by being a glorified social worker and not spent scrutinising legislation and questioning government activity.
30, may be true in certain cases. But what about people who hate kiddy fiddlers? Or racism? Are the only true non-racists people who are apathetic, which is the logical conclusion of that quote.
23 Quite right. MPs have half an hour a week in which they can hod the PM to account, and things are so perfect with the country that all they can do is pat the PM on the back? No wonder people see politicians as useless greasers.
This is a golden opportunity for Bercow to set new rules for PMQs:
1. PM answers the question
2. Backbenchers ask real questions
.. all to encourage serious questions and useful answers, to further the efficient running of the country.
What a shock, look at how the BBC reports the OECD report,
OECD says recession ‘near bottom’
Only in the body of the text do you get an indication of the true picture,
“it adds that recovery is likely to be “weak and fragile” for some time.
And it says that the UK is in “a sharp recession”, with output set to decline by 4.3% in 2009 and no growth in 2010 - well below UK government estimates.”
So why isn’t that the headline?
32 Andrew, very true. “Unfortunately, MPs are more and more concerned with being seen to do stuff in the constieuncy rather than in Westminster.”
The result of Lib Dem street politics.
31. PMQs will involve Brown fawning over Bercow and “Tory Cuts”.
It will be embarrassing to watch Brown! I didnt think Bercows Bottom was big enough to accomadate Browns head but today that is what we will see!
It is interesting that Brown seems to think Public spending is the predominate engine of growth! When Brown is on about cuts he is in essence saying he does not want the private economy and wealth to expand. Maybe more evidence of Browns creep into Robert Mugabe thinking! No doubt Pravda will go on supporting the one eyed Idiot that is Gordon Brown until the whole economy is defunt and ZanuLabour have rigged the election.
36 - According to the chancellor’s figures, are we suppose to be seeing some sort of mega growth in 2010? How is 0% growth going to effect the budget calcs? Personally, I don’t want to get too close as the black hole with these numbers is so large I may get sucked in.
38. Dont forget the Lithuanian Nazis !
Happy Days.
39, can’t recall if it’s 2010 or the next year but he reckoned 3.5%.
And that was Darling reining in Brown’s even more lunatic forecasts.
29 Local petrol prices have inched up another penny. Now at £1.049…
20. Was talking about this with a lefty friend last night. We decided this present recession doesn’t somehow feel as recessiony* as others - like say 1981. Why is this? - when this recession is arguably worse than all others since the war?
Because, of course, interest rates have collapsed making most people better off.
But these rates are heading north again. And soon. Labour could, at that point, fall permanently below 20%.
*I have decided to start inventing new words:
Recessiony - the feeling of slowdown during a slump, of course
Baxtered - to extrapolate poll results into an election result using mathematical models
Smeargasm - the state of sexual excitement attained by Labour lowlifes when they discover an infelicitous fact about opposition politicians
And I invented a totally irrelevant after trekking across town yesterday evening:
Tubemare - the nightmarish stress and chaos induced in your daily life by a particularly gruelling journey on London’s crowded underground network - “Sorry I’m late: Tubemare”
Er, I seem to have wandered off topic. Time for me to do some werk.
Auf Wieder.
37. I think that there is a backlash in progress on pavement politics. In austere times I think people will vote for who best governs the countery and keeps them financial secure. Not select MPs on who can collect the most dog shit!
As i have said before the LDs have perverted the system at the margins in a way that whilst assists them has meant that MPs stay away from the chamber and do more visible activity for their voters. Part of this move by MPs away from the chamber has been caused by Labour and LD are not soley to blame. Secondly the Lies they tell to the public in two horse bar graphs etc when they say they are in second place and they are not.
Cameron should focus on Iran.
Its the most important issue at the moment, and he needs to gain credibility after his crass approach thus far.
That is if he’s there and hasn’t parachuted into Georgia or Tehran.
Got to go and take Grandma shopping!
Better be back for PMQs!
43. Here in East London £1.039 (BP). Crossed the £1 barrier a couple of weeks ago.
43, wordal inventerage is a significator of stupidityness. Desisterise!
Regarding rising rates, they can’t go lower, but if we’re seeing a second dip, might that not mean they’re retained at 0.5% for a prolonged period?
43 -
Amissy.
London Fieldsy.
More from the OECD,
The organisation warned that “public finances have deteriorated sharply” since the beginning of the recession and called on the UK to continue to develop “a strong and credible” framework for reducing the ratio of debt to output.
Wonder how Gordo will spin this to make it back up his claim of increasing public spending?
Another good news day for Gordon Mk II
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/5616635/Pensions-crisis-to-hit-millions-of-workers.html
Undergrind
48: Depends what happens with inflation doesn’t it. If the BOE’s primary purpose is still to control inflation, than rising interest rates to offset inflation is the way it happens.
The BOE’s independence would quickly come into question if it didn’t
45. The problem with the softly-softly approach that we and the US have tried with Iran is that they still blame foreign government for stirring up the opposition. they wre going to do this anyway so we may as well have said what we think, which is what cameron did. Not very diplomatic? Perhaps but at least it is courageous and to be honest it doesn;t matter what we say, the Iranian regime will twist it.
10. The beauty of our Constitution is it is fluid, and individual speakers, Prime Ministers etc and initiate changes which can quickly become a core part of how we are governed.
If the Speaker got up and told an mp off for wasting parliaments time with such a silly question, the number of such questions would be reduced to nil, or at least ones asked at the behest of the whips.
Again with the evasiveness of the Prime Minister. The Speaker could lay the law down and tell the PM that he hasnt answered the question.
We need to give PMs some latitude over how they answer a question, and sometimes they might not have an answer, but when the PM deliberately avoids answering because he doesnt like the question, or when he asks the Opposition leader a question, the Speaker can step in and let them know it isnt good enough. The counter to that however, is if the PM has answered the question properly, the leader of the opposition cant just ask five more variations of the same question in the hope that at least one of them will end up on the 6.00 news.
53, mmm. If the rest of the world recovers then demand rises and commodity prices go up, inflationary pressure demands a rise in rates but political pressure demands they stay ultra-low.
I think King would tell Brown to go to hell and raise them.
Regarding interest rates.
The only people benefitting from very low interest rates (<3.5%) are those on fixed and tracker rates which were arranged before Xmas. Since then these rates have gone up and up.
So every month there are more people who are dropping off their fixed deals and are unable to get anything like the same rate as they were on. I am paying BoE +0.23% until next June - the best rate I can get is 3% at present.
So for an ever growing band of people , interest rates are about to go up by 1-1.5% which is a lot of money being sucked out of the economy.
54 - Choosing to make his comments to the Conservative Friends of Israel was stupid in the extreme.
45 - I’m pretty sure most people said he was right in his approach to the Georgia situation, and considering Iran are quite happy to blame us for anything anyway, I don’t see the problem with pointing the finger at those actually responsible.
52. Avoid the tubemare and the undergrind by doing a Tebbit and getting on your bike. Makes everything in London so much more accessible.
7.
“I now know how East German swimming teams felt !! ”
Fingertips were never allowed under the Lycra!
50. The UK population *are* developing a framework to deal with the debt, but they wont get an opportunity to put it into action until early next year.
44. The LDs began the move, but it also comes from modernisation of the Commons which makes Thursday a non-day with hardly any votes ever and encourages MPs to disappear to their constituencies by Thursday lunchtime and not return until Monday lunchtime.
A lot of it comes from the sheer size of the Labour victory in 1997, when Labur had more Mps than they knew what to do with and thought that keeping them in their constituencies as much as possible would a) keep them busy; b) keep them out of trouble in Westminster; and c) make it more likely that they would hold onto these seats.
Is there a market on how long it will take Gordon to mention Latvian Nazis during PMQs?
46.
“Got to go and take Grandma shopping! ”
Martin Day (aka Tim) is Carol Thatcher’s lurve child?
17 that would be reasonable, if he didn’t claim for mortgage payments.
56 - Well since King told Gordo to go shove his stimulus package where the sun doesn’t shine, he does seem to have regained an independent streak. Only last week, he was telling the world that the government were wrong over banking regulation and in particular there plans for effectively “no change”.
52. Undergrind is good!
tim, do you have smeargasms in your sleep? Do you dream of discovering old photos of George Osborne at a National Front rally, and then you wake up all… sticky?
Don’t worry, I understand this is common in adolescent Labour males with no other sexual outlet.
58. Why? Whom did that audience offend?
44. I think pothole politics has worked because a disconnect grew up between people and their MPs. People voted ‘labour’ or ‘tory’ and the MP went off to Westminster voted with the whip and made the HoC a little more Lab or Con but there wasn’t a great feeling among voters that their MPs were doing something for them.
The LDs were able to come along and say ‘vote for me and I will do x,y, and z’ and also make a small but definable difference in people’s lives, improving their area etc, rather than the ethereal benefits of an extra vote in the HoC on legislation.
As for the backlash, I don’t think the evidence is sufficient to make that argument.
So we are all still alive. The Palace of Westminster did not crumble and the PMs statement passed so ordinarily; although I must admit a Speaker dressing like a fairly normal member of the public was a distinct improvement.
Tory MPs were well behaved, Sir George Young was positive in his support for the new Speaker, and the BBC did not make fools of themselves. I guess most of the general public failed to miss a heart-beat.
So I guess everyone is truly satisfied.
Oh no, I forgot. There are always the Tory Boys on pb.com.
If this blog is the most widely read of all the UK’s political blogs then I guess if Joe and Mrs Public tuned in they would be most bemused by the differences between the courteous and gentlemanly David Cameron and the twenty-something Tory Boys who post here. Possibly something to do with Eton.
*reaches for mind bleach*
60.
“Makes everything in London so much more accessible.”
Especially St Thomas’ or Charing X A&E Departments
67 (correction) there -> their
Is there any plans to get the edit function up and running again? I thought it was a great addition.
47. The diesel differential seems to have all but gone. I went for derv at my local pettie the other day and it was only a penny more then the petrol. The difference was enormous a few months ago, ten to fifteen pence per litre.
71, hehe, did you see Bercow being interviewed by Bradby?
5′6″ isn’t really short, but he seems to have small man syndrome. Grr!
68 - I’m just jealous of your ability to have Seanal sex.
71. We are still alive, but you are nonetheless trying to bore us to death with your tedious posts. “Tory Boys”, “Eton”, Yawn.
Pretty much every single answer on the BBC’s ‘what do you want from PMQs’ says ‘make Gordon answer a question’
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&forumID=6636&edition=1&ttl=20090624111952&#paginator
68. I think the best part of my early teen years involved waking up all sticky.
Malcolm, why do you assume that everyone who doesn’t want more Labour are
a) Tory voters
b) male
c) in their 20s?
d) were educated outside the state system as a result of the choice their parents made?
And your evidence for this is?
43. [swaggering] Well I have now managed to visit every London Underground, London Overground, DLR and London Tramlink station, as well as all the Main Line stations within the orbit of the M25! Taken me since January 2008 but I got there in the end.
[begin delusions of grandeur]
Lord Sunil, First Secretary of State for the Railways, Tubes and Trams, with Honours
[end]
68 - I must admit, sometimes wish I was a bit more like you and could pleasure myself Seanally.
79 Thanks for that.
71 As a matter of fact some of these “Tory boys” are well into their sixties (or at least look that way)
The OECD figures are interesting, and really undermine the “green shoots” nonsense we’ve been hearing recently.
83, although not a consistent Tory voter, I’ll have you know I look grizzled and manly.
Besides, I’d have to look pretty bad to appear 60 odd at 24.
75
Diesel is from a very similar fraction to fuel oil for heating - price up in winter, down in summer.
Diesel remains much cheaper than petrol in Europe
44. Here Here, i have made the point on several times. At a local level they are darn good at it. But the problem is, they turn the House into a Parliament of social workers. And, if i remember correctly, LibDems are good, at local levels, at getting into power, but very poor at maintaining power. Ie. they are good at winning elections but a bit crap at governing. They are not the same skill set.
85 But look at what voting Labour did for Damian McBride ?
Perhaps there should be a health warning on the ballot paper?
A lot of Conservative bloggers/posters seem to be building up this demand on Bercow to intervene with Brown’s answers. Has any speaker done this before (the font of all knowledge claims Martin did)? It seems to smack a little of setting demands so high that they can say ‘we gave him a chance and he failed’.
The speakers’ role at PMQs is exaggerated imho.
51 - this section brings it home..
“If a 25-year-old worker joined a defined contribution scheme — the kind used by most workers in the private sector — this year and paid in 2.7 per cent of a lifetime average salary of £50,000 a year, while their employer paid in 6.5 per cent, they would receive an annual pension of £16,023 from the age of 65.
A 25 year-old on the same pay joining a final salary scheme — most typically found in the public sector — could expect to receive £57,714. “
68. “No time for the old in-out, love. I’ve just come to read the meter!”
33.
“what about people who hate kiddy fiddlers?”
People with unacceptably-strong views about juvenile apprentice MPs are more to be pitied than hated.
Q. How many MPs does it take to (really) change a Speaker?
A. Obviously far more than 646. The Troughing continues. Flipping still to be covered up apparently.
OT has Gordon ever been interviewed by Paxo?
87, quite. Interesting to contrast Machiavelli’s The Prince with his Discourses on Livy. I should re-read the latter, actually.
73. Admittedly I have had a trip to St Thomas’ after taking a tumble but that’s just life. I prefer having the occasional sketchy moment on the bike than the indignity of paying to be crammed in to a roasting tube train in rush hour in the middle of summer.
41 I believe the budget forecasts were 1.5% for 2010 and 3.5% for subsequent years.
29 Martin Day
You must be doing something wrong. My wife and I have never been better off. I’m voting for SuperMac’s “You’ve never had it so good.”
93. Not in living memory. Neither has he been on QT since 1997.
85 Well politics does attract some pretty odd characters. I’ve seen men in their 20s hanging around Westminster events trussed up in suits that their granddads would have been proud of. With the exception of Michael Fabricant, politics does tend to be celebrity for ugly people and the socially abnormal.
83 surely you are confusing us with Damien Mcbride who strangely looks like he is in his late forties, but is in fact about 33.
85.
“I’d have to look pretty bad to appear 60 odd at 24.”
Not if your political bosses had to give you a good spanking and 100 lines every week.
100. I’m 33 but I don’t think I look that old.
89 - I’d agree that some are building expectations so that Bercow fails to meet them, but I don’t think it’s really beyond the remit of a decent Speaker to ask the Prime Minister to give answers that are in some way related to the questions asked.
87. A lot of stuff that MPs deal with should, more naturally, be dealt with by district or county councillors but people go straight to the MP either because they don’t know who or what their local councillors are and do, or because they want to shortcut the system or because the MP has a high profile locally.
89. Agreed. It is not for the Speaker to tell the PM how to answer a question and I agree that there is a sense that some Tories are setting Bercow up for a fall. Not good or attractive.
103, I do wonder if we’ll see a remark about courteous silence.
99. Is that what attracted you to it, Jonathan, dare I ask…?
68.
“…discovering old photos of George Osborne at a National Front rally”
Your intelligence contacts told you that these photos are what the ralliers ‘get off’ on between sleep-inducing Nick Griffin rants? This was meant to be classified information! Anyway it’s hardly GideO’s fault that he looks so much like Kitty Usher.
99 - The secon photograph of Clegg here.
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1193693/Id-drunk-I-irresponsible-Criminal-Nick-Clegg-regrets.html
Should be enlarged to 25 ft and feature in the Norwich By Election.
“Now this is a bar chart”
89. The Speakers role, is essential. Martin pulled up both Brown and Cameron for different issues. The problem with Martin was, that sometimes he was exceptionally fair and capable, but most of the time he was just awful. How many times did he call Dennis Skinner to get the last question in PMQ’s which always resulted in a morale boost for the PLP?
When i met the man, he came over as quite a genuinely nice person who took his job very seriously.
LabourHome article plunges into a sea of delusion with gay abandon.
The new Speaker and the Poles: Another bad week for the Tories - written by raincoatoptimism
http://www.labourhome.org/forum/?p=6064
FPT - LondonStatto
Harris/Metro poll tables:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/europe/pubs/Metro_UK_elections_final.pdf
Breakdown of the 29% others was UKIP 10, Grn 6, BNP 4, SNP 3, PC 1, Res 1, Oth 3.
Best PM: Cameron 34, Brown 13, Clegg 11.
Brown as PM: 55% “not at all satisfied”.
Confidence to run the economy (Extremely/Very/Fairly/Somewhat/not at all): Brown 3/7/13/18/59, Cameron 4/10/23/25/38, Clegg 1/4/17/31/47.
Best to represent UK to the rest of the world: Cameron 38, Brown 17, Clegg 10.
It is a shame that Harris do not provide geographical sub-samples.
A little anecdote from 1996 - the last sentence about sycophantic questions is rather familiar…
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/speaker-tells-mps-to-stop-cheering-leaders-1327099.html
86 75
There is new diesel refining capacity coming on stream. The issue was supply.
European diesel prices are lower due to lower tax to encourage usage versus petrol.
Economic recovery.
Even if GDP returns to growth next year unemployment will continue rising for at least 2-3 years as it lags.. (see all past recessions).
So unemployment benefits rise and the budget deficit increases…
As we are unlikely to see and growth >1% before 2013 it will feel like a recession and look like a recession.. and yes interest rates will rise as a consequence of rising UK and US Government borrowing.. £200B per year x 4 years means UK debt will exceed GDP… not a pretty sight.
The Conservatives go on about not cutting NHS spending. That is economically illiterate in my view: it and Benefits are the two biggest items of Spending. If a new Government wants to cut spending - and it will have no choice- if it does not cut NHS and Benefits ACTUAL spending - then the Defence Budget for example could be reduced to zero and still other spending will have to be slashed.
This is a recession which starts with white collar jobs and then moves slowly out … unlike 1980s where high interest rates were needed to curb inflation.. Of course anyone who buys food or fuel knows inflation is not falling…for “real ” people…
106 Yeah, opposites attract.
110 - They aren’t alone
The new Conservative European grouping is perceived as an embarrassment by the majority of the political community, and it is thought that the party attempted to bury the bad news
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/phi100_new_tory_european_grouping_an_%E2%80%98embarrassment%E2%80%99_they_tried_to_bury.html
41 Augustus Carp (previous thread)
Thank you for the news, even if it was grim.
It was heartwarming to read all the little tributes to Sam. For those who did not know him, I can confirm that he was as charming and intelligent in the flesh as he was on Site. He was an ‘early PBer’ and one who helped to establish its reputation as a forum for serious, informed and civilised discussion.
I notice that the previous thread exhibited all these characteristics in ample measure, despite the ‘touchy’ subject.
Sam would have approved.
108 The Botany Professor was last seen eyeing up the attached - with its various sized “attachments” - with which to give Mr Clegg a response he would never forget:
http://www.rancholobos.com/images/lobos/flora/carnegia_gigantea.jpg
115, you mean a panel with a leftwing pro-Europe majority don’t like the creation of a non-federalist European Parliament grouping? Staggering.
“Ninety three per cent of right leaning panellists took the view that the Conservative grouping was a success.
But comparable majorities of left-leaning, non-aligned, and Lib Dem panellists disagreed.”
So, your own link agrees with the fundamental point that leftwing limpwristed EU-philes are all upset that the mean Tories are actually fulfilling a promise about Europe.
My solution for Constitutional Reform. Have the Lords made up of elected people who act as constituency “social workers” and ombudsmen. MPs in commons to act as political representitives of the constituency- with plenty of time to have other jobs or be ministers. Only problem - the revising role of Lords. I’ll leave that to others.
113. Indeed the 1980s recession was largely a manufacturing phenomenon and barely touched some parts of the country.
115.
Worthless poll.
Ninety three per cent of right leaning panellists took the view that the Conservative grouping was a success.
But comparable majorities of left-leaning, non-aligned, and Lib Dem panellists disagreed.
In my weaker moments I’ve been tempted to join the crowds and start a blog (although I suspect it’d be barely read by any, in part because I dislike the needy appeals for traffic in the comments of bigger blogs, “I’ve blogged about this at…” etc). But names are all so crowded. I like my current online handle but every variation on it seems to have been snapped up, in several cases by people who aren’t even blogging.
Ah well, PB will have to remain the only recipient of my superb insights for now (:p)
re 53 well inflation is soon going to soar when rapidly rising petrol prices are compared with precipitously falling ones of last autumn, and the rapid decline in mortgage rates falls out of the index, and the soon to be reveresed VAT cut. it’s worth bearing in mind that despite the supposedly damping down effects of recession on prices that the CPI is still firmly above the government’s target figure and would be so high without the VAT cut that Mr King would be writing the Chancellor another letter.
115. These PH panels are just farcically predictable. A few lines on the panellists’s views on the new Tory grouping, as evidence:
“A left-leaning media panellist said [of the EU Tories]: ‘Their new friends aren’t neo-nazis but they are nativists, know-nothings and loonies.’
A Lib Dem concurred, describing the other group members as ‘a rag-bag of extremists and fringe parties’, and concluding that ‘the grouping will have and deserves no credibility’.
A right-leaning panellist argued that move had been a success on the grounds that ‘it was promised and delivered.’”
Why not reduce it to the headline: Non Tories Criticise Tories, Tories More Supportive of Tories
But if they did that, of course, the whole exercise would be revealed as the pointless bag of flatulence it surely is.
Nul points for the citation, tim. Must do better.
108. Excellent article exposing Clegg’s past life ‘on the piste’ and his record as Germany’s all-time supreme burner of big green pricks. probably win him a million votes like ‘Paddy Pantsdown’.
54. Well, naturally the Iranian regime will try blaming the West. It is noteworthy though that Khamenei apparently felt it was not effective to use the US as a scapegoat in his Friday prayer, and that (according to the German press, for what it’s worth) there has been a strong pushback from Qum against all other “Western instigation” proclamations from the regime.
Some people criticize Obama for being too timid. I think they are thoroughly mistaken. What the protesters need, above all, is legitimacy. I think by taking a military intervention so clearly off the table before and recording that video address, Obama has made it nearly impossible for the regime to rally the very patriotic Iranians around the idea of a foreign threat. Ahmadinejad in particular has lived off of generating Western outrage to divert from a discussion of his own failures and radical policies at home.
In terms of international support, it will be much more damaging to the regime if solidarity with the protesters is expressed by normal people more than governments. If the West feels they still have tools to pressure the Iranian regime (I’m not so sure we do), it should be made clear to Iran that those tools will be used, but it would be best to do that in a way that cannot be used as a soundbite on Iranian evening news.
In the end, there’s not much the West can do, but whatever is done should, in my opinion, be geared towards helping those people protesting, not making people in the West feel better about themselves. In this respect, I think Obama’s groundwork before the election was extremely helpful, and strongly-worded protests such as Angela Merkel’s are at best inconsequential and at worst give the regime material to sway the undecided or to motivate their conservative base to use even more violence against “those Western henchmen”.
re 75 some pleaces around here are now selling diesel for less and petrol.
Staggering link I’ve got:
Tuesday 23 June 2009
A cocktail waitress who refused to wear a tight-fitting dress at work has been awarded £3,000 compensation. Fata Lemes, 33, worked at the Rocket Bar in Mayfair for eight days last year and was told female staff would have to wear the tight red dress in the summer. At the time the uniform was a black shirt and trousers for men and women. A panel upheld her claim that bar owners Spring and Green had discriminated against her on the grounds of her gender.
From DWF, a legal firm (I think) http://www.dwf.co.uk/news/xprNewsDetail.aspx?xpST=NewsDetail&news=517
re 81 but Sunil have you managed all the Tube ones in a day?
125 I suppose we should all be grateful the pissed pyromaniac wasn’t visiting the Van Gogh museum at the time…
Nick Clegg.
128. What’s staggering?
125. The worst thing in that article is Clegg’s statement that “I quite like Michael Martin as a man.” Martin was a total disgrace who milked the system more than the worst back bencher did.
re 108. No one kicks a dead dog Tim
129 - is that even possible? Don’t you end up at the outer stations, and needing to come back into the middle each time to change lines? The further out you go, the fewer line interchanges there are…
128.
BBC link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8101973.stm
124 - Sean.
The Tories are embarrassed by it, which is why they launched it on the day of the Speakers election.
If they thought it would play well for them they would have done it a day earlier or later, we all know that.
o/t Nick Herbert getting a real kicking over second jobs on the Daily Politics.
135 - I was under the impression that she objected because she was a Muslim and it clashed with her beliefd. I read that in several papers a couple of weeks ago when the case first started. I’m therefore confused to read it’s specifically because of her ‘gender’…
134. World record is 18 hours for all stations or something.
133 - I want the Lib Dems to win that by election.
I think it would be the best result for Labour.
And I’ve got them at 100/1
122 corporeal - I only started one because I spent so much time bleating on other sites - and clearly it still hasn’t stopped me
I can thoroughly recommend it - bit like having your own online scrapbook in my case - fully of random things that made me laugh, think, rant or cringe about.
I’ve noticed that most of the shameless traffic hoovers almost always stop blogging after a couple of months or so once the novelty wears off.
Personally I find the traffic sources rather than volumes most fascinating - oh and of course the search criteria!
131. That we pander to minority groups to absurd levels, and essentially give them a ‘double dip’ in cases of employment disputes.
108.
Classic Mail hatchet-job dressed up as ’sympathetic’. The best line is at the end:
“Can you imagine David Cameron in a dress?”
Setting aside the ecstacy to which such an image would drive pbcom’s Torybotys, I would imagine Chamereon would carry it off well as Marie Antoinette - like David Walliams with less hair.
137. religion-gender-racism-health and safety…whatever it takes to get a result.
A few thoughts on the Speakership election. My main view was that Widdy would get it and I bet accordingly. However wiser owls here felt that she had no chance and were proved correct. She would have been the most popular choice with the public but of course the public didn’t get a vote. MPs decided.
I felt that for MPs to completely ignore public opinion, particularly Labour MPs as the governing party, and choose someone who was either tainted by Expensesgate or else choose someone for partisan political reasons, would be risky and could backfire spectacularly.
Well that’s what has happened. If Bercow proves to be a good Speaker then there should be no fall out. But if he flops then Labour will rue the day that they voted for him.
139.
Sorry Tim, the Greens are going to win the by-election as the only anti-troughing Party.
137. BBC have a stylehouse requirement that reports and productions involving the ‘religion of peace’ be positive.
Reading through the lines about the claim, the employment tribunal it seems also thought her case was a load of rot, but decided to give her a bit of cash anyway. How can an employer win??
141 - Women aren’t a minority group, Gaz.
129. No I’m not too much of an early bird LOL! But that would leave precious little time for photography….
Besides the Tube network misses out huge chunks of London. More stations are served by non-Underground services, within the M25, than by the tube.
141. She was required to wear a different uniform based on gender, seems a clear case of gender discrimination.
145. They are in countries like India, unfortunately
Gordo has managed to brush his hair this week, makes a change.
144. Have the same uniform standards for men and women? Or is that too much to ask?
Yes.
Here comes the plant….
Planted questions no 1.
Well, so much for your mate Pat.
So yes - Pat asked a planted question…
Planted!!!
Gordon lying straight away.
133.
“No one kicks a dead dog Tim”
I thought one of the prime recreations on this site was kicking the dead dog Tim? But like a blooded pit-bull he falls and rises again more times than Mandy tossing on the Mediterranean waves.
10% cut count - 1
How many council houses have been built in the past 12 months Gordo?
10%, zzzzzzzzzzz
As planted as they get! Even Cameron commented on it…maybe he reads this blog!?
Ten percent cuts- yawn.
Good reply from Cameron!
133.
“No one kicks a dead dog Tim”
I thought one of the prime recreations on this site was kicking the dead dog Tim? But like a blooded pit-bull he falls and rises again more times than Mandy tossing on the Mediterranean waves.
Spending Growth, zzzzzzzz
It’d be useful to have a blow by blow precis of the questions for those of us unable to watch or listen……
More bollocks from Brown about Cameron.
HAHAAH - compared to 1992!!!
Gordo getting desperate, trying to equate spending with 20 years ago with today, hmmm, never heard of a thing called inflation?
Gordon in a big hole….
157. Gordon cannot tell lies! How many times do I have to say it?!
“The Gordo9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No Gordo9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.”
Gordo sticking to his lies, that hole is getting very deep now!
oh dear skewered by his own stats
“never heard of a thing called inflation”
Inflation only counts when it makes the Tories look bad.
Tractor production up - unadjusted for inflation and time.
Ohhhhhh Gordo getting shitty, caught on camera!
Ranting AND lying well done Gordo.
apparently it is not a cut if Labour do it…
Ooooh Get Angry Dave.
Frazer Nelson will be wetting himself over this Gordo performance!!!
10% cut count - 2
Car crash for Gordon so far
Gordon is losing it completely
144 - Employers in fact win the vast majority of cases before the Employment Tribunal (although many cases are settled before that).
I actually think it sounds like a fair decision. It wasn’t appropriate to dismiss her simply for refusing to wear a somewhat revealing dress.
Brown backpeddling severely.
Gordon looking extremely bad on his supposed area of expertise. Cameron is playing a blinder…
Cameron caught Gordo lying again, oh dear! Talking about future spending by using past figures!
10% cut count - 3
Cameron doing a corker
What the hell is Gordo wittering about, spending under the Tories of £x billion, 20 years ago! What has that got to do with the price of fish? Not even spending compared to GDP!
Ouch. Just ouch.
173. With massive, and i mean massive salary increases above inflation. Right or wrong, but salarys in public services, in many areas have rocketed. The merit or otherwise is a different discussion, but you cant just turn things back.
Gordo is going to blow!!!
(Yawn)
“Any cut you can cut.. I can cut deeper…..
I can cut any cut deeper than you!
No you can’t!
yes I can
No you….”
144. Anyone who has been involved in any way with employment tribunals knows they are a complete lottery, occasionally verging on kangaroo courts. Hence the proliferation of dubious claims…
Cameron said “you”….tut tut!
Backed into a corner, and Gordo continues to lie, oh dear oh dear oh dear!
What I find interesting is that Cameron is looking to paint Brown as cutting too. Cameron clearly not wanting to get drawn into a Labour investment vs Tory Cuts argument, whereas previous Tory leaders would have had it as a point of pride to reduce public expenditure.
199 - clearly more important than the string of lies to come out of Gordon’s mouth…
o/t desperately sad news about SBS. My thoughts are with him and his family, it sounds like he has a lot of people who really care about him around him, I never met him but when he posted here he was a top poster.
187. It would be *perfectly* acceptable however, if they made her aware of the requirements to wear the clothes at her interview, and before she accepted the position.
10% cut count - 4.
What a cut counter he is.
If Cameron wants to cut spending, why is he attacking Labour for doing so? It is like Labour attacking Conservative plans to increase NHS spending.
Gordo is sunk if this is how he thinks he can fight an election. Cameron nails the liar label on him. 10%, zzzzzz, Do-Nothing, zzzzz…..
How is the Speaker doing?
201. That’s just telling the truth, isn’t it?
206 - He isn’t you idiot, he is attacking Gordo for being a liar!
Angent Bercow cuts off the Labour cheers to Gordons final reply - good work
A planted Iraq question
198.
“a complete lottery, occasionally verging on kangaroo courts.”
just like our family courts….criminal courts….county courts…..
The quality control of judges, barristers and solicitors is less transparent than it is for street-sweepers.
202- Hey I think Brown is a piece of ****, don’t you worry about that
208 Speaker told fabricant to calm down “It’s not good for your health!”
Fabricant gets a wigging !!
204. As I read it they didn’t. But requiring it wouldn’t be a justifiable policy in any case.
You can see that Gordo is an absolute wreck after that! Imagine if he got Paxo’ed for 15-20 mins rather than Cameron!
John L - he doesn’t want to - he has to in order to clean up the mess brown has left. He is not attacking Brown for cut but for lies.
Gordon Brown = Liar.
Sound levels are all over the place today.
Brown lost that one badly
Good question Clegg! More firesides chats with Cameron?
Clegg tag-teams with Cameron.
201: If he can force Gordon into admitting it then Camerons won…. Browns entire strategy is to paint the tories as cutters, but labour not. If Labour are forced to admit they will have to cut as well (which everyone knows anyway) the entire facade of Browns economics falls down.
Clegg - oooohhh good one spoilt it at the end.
Brown - I’m not wrong!!!
Gordon talking about ‘hormoners’. oo err fnarr fnarr!
Ho ho ho, “Conservative…I mean Labour…”! Can Gordo do a PMQ without a gaff?
210.
“he is attacking Gordo for being a liar!”
Chamereon in classic Bliar clothing.
Did Gordon just say:
“It is the Labour Party that will cut public expenditure.. err”
Clegg has lost ground recently - another rather lack-lustre pair of questions again
More planted rubbish from Labour.
224. Brown being forced to make reference to 1992 is already a massive climbdown, big win for DC.
As far as Bercow goes, not too bad so far. A little bit of playing to the public gallery but at least he had a bit of a pop at the first stupid planted question/speech and has tried to defuse with a bit of humour.
227.
““Conservative…I mean Labour…”! ”
Even in Westminster the truth slips out occasionally!
I’m bored of the 10% cut count now - is that 4, 5 or 6.
Who cares now?
10%, zzzzzzzzz
They don’t get it do they?
97.”My wife and I have never been better off. I’m voting for SuperMac’s “You’ve never had it so good.””
Malcolm, that is because you had an 18 year Tory government when it mattered, you are a baby boomer.
Sadly, the rest of us are not going to be so lucky.
McBride question ducked by Gordo.
Won’t answer the McBride question. Hooked!
At least “Do Nothing” got a rest this week.
Ohhh, McBride, OMG, he won’t answer!!!!!
Brown - 1 (exposed as a liar)
Cameron - 8 (On fire against Brown)
Clegg - 8 (Excellent PMQ’s for once from Clegg)
My God Brown is rubbish.
Gaz,
You wanted to do your Muslim riff on a clear case of gender discrimination.
Give it up.
He did answer didn’t he.
OOH McBride question - me thinks that was a trap and he walked straight into it “NO”.
Well we all know what McBride does these does don’t we! I think the Tories should keep pushing this every week, as he won’t answer and it is important to know!
241. Point of curiosity Benny, do you happen to have a brother called Henry?
217 corporeal
Why on earth not? What possible business is it of you or the state to interfere in the matter of what employees are asked to wear, within normal bounds of decency? (This was a cocktail bar, BTW.)
198 - The reason why there are quite a lot of dubious claims in the Employment Tribunal is that the ones with merit are generally settled before they get near the Tribunal. By the time it gets to the Tribunal, you are left with employees with an axe to grind and a much smaller number of employers who are too bloody minded to make an offer to settle. These cases make good copy for the papers because they involve some wild claims (either grossly exaggerated or based on tenuous arguments). But they are not representative of most employment law that goes on.
The ones that reach the Tribunal overwhelmingly go in favour of the employer. It may well be that this one in fact went in favour of the employer. She got much less than she was asking for and it is perfectly possible she turned down a better offer before the case reached the Tribunal. However, the point she won on seems fair enough and the compensation does not look excessive.
Malcom,
That because you are ‘mature’ my dear old fella.
The kids can’t even find a job to apply for, let alone get.
238. mcbride feels like it has legs, he hasn’t answered the question and has used a sort of threat to try to get the question not asked in future. I say to the Tories keep pushing til you get a proper answer.
237.
“you had an 18 year Tory government when it mattered”
I thought Bliar and Brown had only been in since 1997? It’s the low interest rates, Christina, which make him feel so well off.
Michael White likely scores and comments:
Brown 7 - got to talk about the economy, which he enjoys and is awesome at.
Cameron 4 - called Brown ‘you’ and it killed his momentum.
Clegg 5 - better than Cameron, because I don’t like Cameron.
The multiple choice question from Tory Backbencher
I like it
252. lol
That multiple choice question !! Who on here suggested that?
With no access to TV or sound I haven’t a clue what you’re all wittering on about but it sounds brilliant entertainment!
Just got back from t’Senate House library. Brown looks dreadful. His Front Bench is Desolation Boulevard.
Heh.
Multiple choice!
Martin Salter = badger nob.
Very bad decision to bring up the divided Speaker election in the polarized atmosphere of PMQs.
So what do we think Toenails will make of that?
Clear victory for Gordo, as he got his 10% line in?
246. I don’t I’m afraid, not aware of any family member called Henry either.
Planted question from a LD ?
Tories humiliated in Local Elections??!
Oppphss, Gordo lied again, education spending isn’t rising!
247. Adhering to a discriminatory practice should not be a requirement of employment.
The Tories and Labour rebels in a pincer movement on the Iraq Inquiry.
Planted question zzzzzzzz
10%, zzzzzzz
40% reduction in crime, anybody believe it?
another 10% cut dig - yawn
Is it me or did that Lib Dem just ask a planted question for the PM?
252.
Michael White: -17.
Presumably pitying editors only still employ him from time to time because his pension pot has been destroyed by Gordo? He’s a kind of Melanie Phillips with a moustache; a Finkelstein with half a brain cell.
I think Bercow’s done/doing fairly first time out. Struck a decent balance.
262. Ah well, coincidence of surnames I suppose.
Cameron’s clearest win for a long time. Brown is a one trick pony. The fact that Brown in passing admitted that Labour plan cuts in investment whilst refusing to acknowledge he misled the House (digging one almighty hole for himself) is a bonus.
271. Which was it, I missed a couple.
Something is going on with this mcbride thing. Two questions in two weeks?? They must be trying to trap him, which they have done today.
Good question about MPs with mental health issues.
[Think I saw George try to avoid eye to eye with Gordon for fear of a fit of the giggles.]
271. No, its a major local issue in Bob Russell’s constituency in Colchester. County Council wants to close two failing schools and open an academy, something mr Russell is dead against.
PMQs seems to have been a bit more pacier.
248. Ah but you omit to note that so wary are employers of going to tribunals due to the randomness of the outcomes, adverse publicity, and expense, that many highly dubious claims are settled beforehand. And these won’t get to know about other than through our own experiences.
I can think of several example in my own experience of people using bullsh*t claims of sex/race discrimination in order to escape being sacked for incompetence and/or to generate a neat little payoff.
OMG - brilliant and incisive questioning from Jim Dobbin. A rising star in the Commons. Why have we never heard of him before????
Dobbin. Dobbin’s the Man. DOBBIN.
DOBBIN.
I have seen the future of British politics, and it’s name is…
JIM DOBBIN.
More kids and over 40s are in education because there are no jobs for them. See report out today Gordon!
Massive strategic mistake from Brown sticking to his investment blag.
Somehow he’s ended up with a flank deep in his home territory. It’s not going to go away now - and dribbling on about “Tory cuts” just sounds desperate.
The numbers speak for themselves, it’s fundamental to the character of the man that he’s trying to bully and weasel his way out rather than just taking the question on directly and swatting it away with a joke like Blair would have done.
Well played Cameron today.
266 You’re using a loaded word - discriminatory.
Why should a grown woman and an employer not be allowed freely to enter into a contract of employment which includes a perfectly reasonable dress code? Where is the loss or injury to justify a £3K payoout?
279 - sounds like ‘you mate Pat’ needs a ticking off next time you see him Mike (over his planted question)
251.Err, no, not if you were saving for your old age back then. One of the hardest hit groups right now are pensioners.
275
Something to do with the tories being humiliated in Essex at the locals and could the SoS Education condemn the tory run essex council for something or other.
I’m guessing he’s a LD in a tory/LD marginal.
re 285. I think that Bercow did that by cutting him off.
Keep reading that question provided by the whips…..
281 SeanT. But is Dobbin a one trick pony ?
277.
“a fit of the giggles.”
The least of Gideo’s ‘problems’
10%, zzzzzzzzzzzz
I feel Bercow is doing fine - another 10% reference.
This is so childish it’s beyond belief.
281 Labour’s future is in passing the baton from Old Horse Face to Dobbin….
Bercow ticks off for questions about Tory policy
Squeaker Bercow has been ok today 8/10
Tim is asking a question!
SS reference!!!!!
Latvian nazis BINGO!!!
Ah, the tim question. It should simply be known as the TQ, much like the WLQ.
Ho ho ho, Gordo saying that Tories should be joined with Silvio Berlusconi!!!
Good call from Bercow to stop Labour asking about opposition policy. He has recognised the things the Tories aren’t happy with [first palnteed question and Leader of the Oppo questions] and he is making a show of stopping it.
He must have read the Times Leader.
255 That multiple choice question !! Who on here suggested that?
It was me!
Good intervention by Bercow. I think he’s doing well. Of course I always liked him - and, to be honest, I deeply resented the discopurtesy against him - shown by the Tory herd on here.
Well done Mister Speaker.
Bercow did alright today.
281.
Back in the school nativity play, Jim was an understudy for a spear-carrier.
Bercow is doing a good job i think
Critiising Brown for his pre-announcement of Harmans bill yesterday
Bercow having a go at policy announcements - hohhohoohoh - bet Labour MPs are happy now
I always said Bercow was a sound choice…….
284. In the specific case I don’t think she was pre-aware.
In general I don’t think dress codes which discriminate (or differentiate if you prefer) based on gender should be mandatory.
OH dear. Questions outside the House.
I am going to have to eat my words out Bercow?
Too early to say yet but I am would be happy to do so.
DP emails very supportive of Gordo, NOT!!!
301.
“Tories should be joined with Silvio Berlusconi!!!”
Andrew Neil already is - they share the same Dream Topping!
So Mike’s assessment of Bercow’s job strategy is proved correct!
Brown was handed a question on a Wedgwood plate - about the Tories and their Latvian partners.
And he still blew it!! - even though he must have known it was coming - he still flunked it - by citing Silvio Berlusconi as a more sensible partner. Cue much cackling and derision, and the rest of his answer was drowned by hoots of contempt.
Does he not even read the newspapers? He is just stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.
304 SeanT “discopurtesy …”
Is that Nick Palmer’s cats dancing round handbags ??
More of the same from Bercow in the future I hope.
F1 resolution found, says Mosley
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8116756.stm
308.
Wasdn’t that all pre-rehearsed?
“Now Gordon, I’ve been told I’m going to have to smack your bottom publicly to make it seem I’m not really you ‘boy’, is that OK Gordon? ”
“That’s maboy!!”
Benn saying he never announces stuff outside of the house, just talks about problems, what a load of bollocks!
287 - the Conservatives took 60 out of 75 seats on Essex CC, increasing their share by 10. Just what is he talking about?
Nick Herbert doing a good job on nailing Benn.
317 “But it appears a resolution has *NOT* been found, with Mosley agreeing not to stand for re-election as part of the deal “now there is peace,” he said.”
Errr, come on BBC!
320. maybe reading his own bar charts
318. No - Bercow is far too canny to be the Labour stooge some Tories feared. He knows he will have to deal with a Cameron government, containing some people with the desire - and the power - to kick him out, as part of a “parliamentary reform”.
He will steer a very careful course, at least for the next year. I suspect if anything he will tack towards the Tories.
264. Plato
Essex County Council Results
Con 60
LD 12
Ind 2
Lab 1
Colchester Borough
Con 4
LD 4
Lab 1
Another delusional Labour MP. Presumably the humiliation was that the Conservatives and Libdems left one Labour councillor standing. If so Kent, Hampshire, Somerset and so forth must be doubly devastated as they have two Labour county councillors. As for those with more well!
322 - Just like the BBC headline on the OECD report!
The ticker is even more positive, basically saying agreement means no breakaway!
320 David. I think he meant within his Colchester constituency.
320
I was wondering myself.
314.
“the Tories and their Latvian partners.”
This is a sign of a dangerous right-wing Tory backlash against gays? Showing that they are against ‘civil’ partnerships. Will the anthem of their new Eurogroup be ‘The Blue Max’?
In case DC’s opening joke has not been appreciated by absentees:
First planted questioner drones on.
Bercow intervenes, “I think the PM has got the drift.”
DC: “He’s not only got the gist, he has also got the written answer.
320. Remember - whatever the actual results are, they are in fact a triumph for the Liberal Democrats.
Woeful, woeful performance from Brown. Hammer blow after hammer blow from Cameron. By the end even I was beginning to feel slightly sorry for Brown. Darling looked on with skepticism and barely uttered one word in support of what the PM was saying. Labout bnches virtually silent. One of Browns worst ever weeks, IMO.
325 jsfl. Bob Russell is a Lib Dem MP.
The Beeb reporting of the McBride question
1218 Mr Brown has not received any text, e-mails or phone calls from former spin doctor Damian McBride, he tells MPs, after a question by Tory MP James Duddridge.
317.
“F1 resolution found, says Mosley ”
They hired a swank hotel and two dozen of Silvio’s leftover tarts and span a bottle?
324 - maybe this is one reason he isn’t getting Brown to answer questions. Maybe, just maybe, Cameron wants that get-out clause to still be there if and when he needs to use it in a few years time
well an interesting PMQs.
David Cameron comes as close as he dare to calling Brown a liar.
Clearly the Tories have something on Brown and McBride
Labour pinning its hopes on 10% cuts
Cooper and Darling red faced when Cammo read the bit from the Cabinet proceedings- looks like aTory mole in the cabinet
Bercow was excellent. Made it clear how he wants things to be. Slapped down a Labour MP who wanted to talk about tory policy and made a witty slap down of Michael Fabricant.
Bercow kept the best til last. His statement was delivered about announcing things o/s the HoC whilst he looked straight at the PM and no I dont think he is going to be a Labour stooge.
His interview with Bradby last night was total arrogance but I suspect Speaker Bercow intends to make his mark.
320.
I think you will find that while the Tories waltzed to victory in other parts of Essex, they were thumped in Chelmsford and Colchester.
288. Don’t duck it Mike. You need to have a word.
He let you down.
331. And they have the Bar Chart to prove it…
Andrew Neil has a point about Iran. The party political point is the Foreign Secretary looks vulnerable and can easily be painted as impotent.
338. As I said..whatever the results are, they are always in fact a Lib Dem triumph.
315. JackW - you just couldn’t let that typo go, could you?!
337 Cameron took his info about Cabinet carrying ons from an article in The Times.
Gordon does not enjoy the full supoort of his Cabinet and they chatter out of class.
re 136 and others it’s perfectly possible without even trying hard. I’ve managed about 18.5 hours. The world record is considereably less.
341
Unkind
I wish I could see Guido’s inbox
Well, I just liveblogged the new Speaker’s first PMQs. I wish I hadn’t bothered now. Dull.
338 - maybe so, but that doesn’t really matter. It’s a bit ‘you might have won the war and taken over my country, but I totally broke your favourite sword.’
Obviously, this Iraq inquiry will backfire on Brown instead of shoring up his transparency credentials.
Worse yet, the timing of the debate after GE means that Labour, in the process of coping with defeat, will see the past Labour government on trial for as long as it pleases the Cameron government then in charge.
You couldn’t make it up.
334 - Maybe the BBC-ites were too busy looking up “reef” in the dictionary and missed Gordo response?
337 Easterross. Good analysis on Bercow. Yes he has an air of arrogance about him but also there’s a steely glint in his eye - a determination to make his mark.
I was also quite pleased he didn’t flinch from Bradby who seems to want to op-ed all his pieces.
Shrinking violet Bercow isn’t - Good !!
332 — that’s one of the problems. It is not Cameron’s job to make people feel sorry for Brown.
The other problem, pace Oracle, is that he attacks Brown for making cuts, when that is or will be Conservative policy.
I notice no Labour poster is refuting my verdict on Browns sheer awefulness today. Even “Tim” can’t spin this one.
Wow even White scores today 2 for GB and 4 for DC and 3 for NC.
Brown was that poor.
337. Quite. He does make the point, which others do also, that that people are put off by the robust way that people get heckled and drowned out.
Sometimes these things are essential, when a planted question comes out, it is quite right for the other side to mock them loudly, again when someone slips their tongue which reverses their points, again thats part of the fun.
Bercow 8/10, Cameron 8/10, Clegg 7/10 (delivery is weaker then it should be) and Brown 3/10 generally utterly awful, however he was accurate and his case was logical for bringing forward capital expenditure as he did, so why claim otherwise last week? And secondly the planted Tim Question, he completely and utterly fluffed, the uninformed viewer would have no idea what he was talking about, or what the criticism he was trying to make.
353 - When has Cameron attacked Brown for making cuts? He is attacking Brown fairly and squarely on being a liar!
Excellent PMQ’s for Nick Clegg who outlined where LibDem “cuts” would come from ie Trident and reducing tax credits for higher rate taxpayers.
No other party has been so honest and I fully expect forthcoming opinion polls to show a steady rise for LibDems.
David Cameron sadly reverted to his “punch and judy” politics and should really have done better.
341.
“Andrew Neil has a point about Iran.”
Is he still putting his point about? Your choice of Brillo for your impotence-painting references might be a tad unkind, even with the new Dream Topping.
Anyone else notice Toenails having a veiled go at the Tories for ‘playing the man’ about Gordon - “a lot of our audience don’t like it”
He pulled a face as he said it - it was like a giant stage whisper - pathetic attempt since HYS is full of personal attacks on Gordon mystical moral compass.
I thought Bercow scored 7 perhaps 8 out of 10. He did miss a couple of things.
Firstly, a Labour MP asked about pensions and Brown went off on one about nurses, police and teachers. Not once did he mention the word pension. I think Bercow should have made him answer the question rather than let him go off on one of his delusional PPB’s
Secondly, having pulled one Labour MP up about introducing Conservative policy he then allows another to go off on one about issues relating to the European Parliament that have no bearing on the UK Parliament( In ote Bercow’s former position on the EU). In my view, as Brown has no power to do anything about such matters IMO Bercow should have squashed the question and if the MP hadn’t got an appropriate question to ask told him to sit down. PMQ’s should be about Parliament not other the poltical machinations of other levels of Government.
324. Trouble is with Bercow: you don’t know what you’re going to get. He is totally inconsistent.
He speaks with the same conviction now as he did 10 years ago when his whole belief system was completely different. His beliefs change but his certainty that he’s right stays the same.
In other words, he has no backbone but he has the audacity to pretend he does and everyone else is wrong.
I won’t even start on his personality which is extremely unattractive.
That’s why all Tories dislike him but not, say, Ken Clarke or Anne Widdecombe, both of whom have wildly different views but are also well respected.
Still, he did well today. Let’s hope he is consistent from now on for once in his life.
O/T Here’s a surprising twist. The BBC think that Labour is out to get them for ideological reasons:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article6568404.ece
338. We need the local press to start mocking MPs who make planted questions….
341. “The party political point is the Foreign Secretary looks vulnerable and can easily be painted as impotent.”
lol
I wonder if Brown’s weak preformance today has its roots a lack of confidence because of the loss of his warm and cuddly Glaswegian comfort blanket.
I have to admit with reluctance that Bercow passed his first test as Speaker today. He still irritates the life out of me - but he did do the job much more effectively than Martin. Will Labour benches be wondering what they have let themselves in for?
Apart from that Cameron on top form, Clegg good, Brown went to pieces.
362. All our views mature over time, as times change. I have seen my own personal position change on quite a number of issues.
342.
“results are, they are always in fact a Lib Dem triumph.”
No. they were cr@p for the Lib Dems in 90 per cent of Essex and a triumph in two parliamentary constitiuencies, one of which they will easily hold and one possible gain from the Tories.
363. Thompson has no idea what is headed his way. He should welcome these modest proposals for fear of what the alternative may be.
333. Jack W. I didn’t realise. I withdraw my comments although ‘humiliate’ still seems rather optimistic…….
341. Hague: “The Foreign Secretary is like Ahmadinejads nuclear missile programme; try as he might, he just can’t get it up!”
Any Tory watching this today who can’t see why Sir George Young winning was the worst result for the Tories, imagine Cameron the Etonian pupil being refereed by Young the Headmasterly Etonian and imagine how that would play week in week out.
re 334 knowing the security of emails let’s hope that someone has some leaked evidence to the contrary. Not that it requires much more evidence to nail Brown as a liar.
372 Damn missed it!!
362. Yes, but… frankly all that is irrelevant. Who cares if he’s changed his mind, who cares if he is arrogant. Frankly, I’ve seen no proof of this “arrogance” apart from back-chat, but even if it is true, maybe the Speaker NEEDS a bit of arrogance, or, dare I say it, chutzpah - to square up to the party grandees.
Today the Essex boy done good, especially given it was his first ever outing. That’s all we need - for him to do his job.
372: Maybe thats why he has his banana…to keep the missus happy…
372.
“try as he might, he just can’t get it up!””
You’ve seen the official announcement about Pamela Bordes transferring from ‘best boy’ at The Politics Show to be special adviser at the FO?
371 jsfl. I don’t know the Colchester figures but perhaps we should allow an element of “bar chartism” to a Lib Dem definition of “humiliate”.
Fraser Nelson on Coffee House..
say in my Spectator pol col tomorrow that plans are afoot to have an Independent Conservative stand against him in Buckingham at the next election, so we may not have to endure him for very long
372: I’ve got a good joke about that and his banana…but I think it would get lost in moderation.
368. Bercows views don’t “mature”. He is the opposite of mature. A mature person would have some humility. They conveniently match whoever he’s trying to ingratiate himself with at the time.
How many other people do you know who’ve gone from hard-right Tory to social democrat in less than 20 years whilst irritating everyone along the way?
Bercow the Speaker in 2009 will be very different from Bercow the Speaker in 2012; trust me.
362 So, Casino, he’s consistently inconsistent?
“Onto the Speaker, “The public don’t like it and neither do I” said Bercow about the level of noise in the Chamber. Michael Fabricant was told to shut up because “it’s not good for your health.” He’s evidently trying to make his name with Terry Wogan quips. This bodes very ill for as long as his Speakership lasts. I say in my Spectator pol col tomorrow that plans are afoot to have an Independent Conservative stand against him in Buckingham at the next election, so we may not have to endure him for very long”
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3715738/brown-just-cant-admit-that-he-got-it-wrong.thtml
“His beliefs change but his certainty that he’s right stays the same.”
What name does he post on here? Could be any of us!
John L are you being deliberately thick? In this thread alone you have now twice said Cameron is attacking Brown for making cuts. Please accept that, rightly or wrongly, he is not doing this but he is attacking Brown for lying about whether or not he will have to make cuts. The issue is not Gordon Brown = cuts (we know cuts are inevitable) but Gordon Brown = Liar.
376 - I agree with you again.
379/383-Snap!!
369 - but that assumes local election votes translate to generals, which we know they doesn’t necessarily happen. Where I live there was something of a Lib Dem insurgence at the 2005 locals, taking 3 out of the 4 seats in a ward that tended to be a Tory stronghold. Meanwhile, the Tory MP who covers the area increased his majority by 3,500 votes - largely at the extent of the Lib Dems.
I thought Bercow did quite well first time out.
Interestingly, he didn’t intervene early on to save Brown when he was floundering after about Cameron’s 3rd question. Yet he made a big issue of the noise within the House.
373. Absolutely right tim - on this you and I are as one, and the Tory herd are like excitable heifers running towards a cliff.
The Eton Thing would soon have grated on the public - Young would have been calamitous, long term, for Conservatives. Now they have an Essex lad Jewish Speaker, who sounds normal, and who is still a Tory, and who is self confident enough to stand up to Labour.
A result, in the circs.
390: Bloody hell..it’s bizzaro world again…
for the record I agree with both of you. All Bercow needs to do is his job.
The LDs did genuinely well in Colchester and got a small swing from the tories in Chelmsford. Considering how well UKIP did, I think it is stretching it a tad to call this a humiliation. But hey, we know how the LDs play.
383.
Does Nelson really believe that such a candidacy would make any impact whatsoever? You’re not REALLY saying that he is sub-Michael White in judgement and intelligence?
379 - Doubt that Cameron would make that mistake.
Probably another one of Nelsons “political vetting for credit card applicants” non stories.
Hague doing well on inquiry panel make up
390.
“the Tory herd are like excitable heifers running towards a cliff.”
Our present Summer Holiday heading for an untimely early end?
369. You are only confirming my point, you know.
376. Sadly, it’s not irrelevant Sean.
I hope you won’t take it amiss when I say that I have noticed that you - and your always entertaining comments - do *tend* to be influenced by the mood of the hour!! That’s not a criticism; but you know what I mean…
Please bear in mind most of us (including me) have met the guy. More than once. We know what he’s like. That’s why he is so disliked. Because we KNOW him.
It’s not one branch of the Tory party either. It’s the WHOLE lot. That includes europhiles and clarkites and hard-righters.
I’m warning against people getting misty eyed too early; that’s all.
re: 345, I’m another sad git who has taken part in the Tube Challenge - visiting all the LU stations as quickly as possible. If you’re interested, have a look at http://www.tubeforum.co.uk, I post (occasionally) as tpfkar there.
Sounds like Bercow has made a promising start, the comments on here about his election look even sillier now than they did at the time.
How wonderful to have a real Speaker in the Chair. It reminds one of the Boothroyd days, even Harry Hylton Foster.
Serious point: William Hague is turning into a most thoughtful and considerate Parliamentarian. Such a shame that he was thrust into the leadership of his party when it is so obvious that he was not mature enough to do the job. The move to have ‘youth’ and ‘look’ as major factors in determining the leadership of parties means that mature judgement will likely be ignored.
With many experienced Tory backbenchers leaving Parliament at the next election and many of the squierarchy deemed unfit to take positions in a new Tory government is it not worrysome that Cameron’s choices might be very limited? The current shadow cabinet are not terribly good with some honourable exceptions.
Views, anyone?
378. Jack W. I’ve quickly been through the 9 Colchester Borough wards and at a rough estimate the Conservatives won by about 2500 votes overall. So much for humiliation. I’ll have some of what Bob Russell has been drinking!
382. Yes Peter.
The sarcastic “eye rolling” icon - as if I’ve said something silly - isn’t necessary. That is what he’s like.
QED.
I was pleasently surprised with what I saw from Bercow (didn’t watch all of PMQ’s) But its early days. We’ll have to wait several months before we can really get a handle on whether he’s any good, IMO.
He had a fairly easy ride because the Labour benches were nearly universally silent while witnessing Browns total car crsh perfomance, so its not like he had to try and control two angry and baying sides. We’ll get a much idea idea, as the weeks progress, how good he is. If he is a good speaker, rest assured I’ll have the humility to admit I called it wrong.
394 It would certainly seem very odd to plot against Bercow at this stage. He’ll probably be at the very least an acceptable Speaker, and perhaps a good one.
If, over a period of months, the worst fears of some are realised, then that would be a different matter. But it would be bonkers to pre-judge it now.
I’m sure the Nelson thing is a shot across Bercows bows.
284 - If you look at it like a contract, then there was no agreement - the waitress did not agree to wear the dress. And the tribunal must have thought that it was reasonable for her to do so.
An employer will discriminate if it adopts a policy which is detrimental to women by treating them less favourably than men (or the other way around), or which causes harassment or loss of dignity. As well as receiving money for loss of income, the employee can also receive money for “injury to her feelings” and this is probably where the £3k in this case comes from.
A few years ago, there were claims that men should not have to wear ties when women in the same office didn’t. It was decided that this was not discrimination because both genders had to wear an equivalent “business dress”.
402 I have a strictly limited repertoire of icons, Casino. No, it wasn’t wholly appropriate.
404. “If, over a period of months, the worst fears of some are realised, then that would be a different matter. But it would be bonkers to pre-judge it now.”
Agreed. But it’s equally bonkers to say he’s going to be brill’ based on one performance today. I wasn’t impressed yesterday although, granted, it was his first day.
Let’s wait and see..
It’s also quite rich for Tories to accuse Bercow of arrogance, given that the Tory party has given us…. Michael Heseltine, Sir Peter Tapsell, Nicholas Soames Keeper of the Wardrobe Key, Quintin Hogg, that guy who thought he lived in Balmoral, Duck House Dude, Viscount Helipad, etc.
Tories Are Arrogance In Pinstripes. They need to be careful how they chuck that accusation around.
406. The blushing icon is also unnecessary Peter!
No harm done: here’s a (manly) kiss for you! x
404 etc strange intervention by Fraser Nelson. Seems premature.
“Nicholas Soames Keeper of the Wardrobe Key”
I lolled.
Regarding Bercow… isn’t it conceivable that he is in fact a very unpleasant person and that he might be a good speaker at the same time?
As I understand it, there’s no higher honour Bercow can get now, he is where he wanted to be. So there’s no point in cozying up to anyone anymore and there’s really nobody to fear, either.
Whatever power Bercow now has will only be felt when he actually exercises it. So if he’s as narcissistic as he appears to be (apparently also in private), he’ll make plenty use of it. It seems to me the Speaker’s authority mostly consists of the ability to discipline MPs, so that is what he will do.
That need not be a bad thing.
Cameron won’t have anything to do with an ‘Independent Conservative’ standing against Bercow. I doubt he would back or even encourage it, but he can’t stop it.
His attempt to suck up to Labour will have caused collateral damage at home. It’s inevitable.
388.
No I am not making the assumption of any precise ‘transference’ from locals to nationals. But if the locals are particularly different than those in other nearby wards, in a place where the Lib Dems are campaigning relentlessly for their heavily-branded parliamentary candidate, then I think you will find that the ‘locals’ improvement is largely on the back of that ‘national’ campaign rather than vice versa. I think you will also find that the wire-taps on the Tory full-timers’ grapevine reveal that they know this all too well, as they do in Watford, Winchester, Warrington, Westmorland, Newcastle, Northampton, Cambridge, St Albans etc. They also know equally-well those constituencies where they have the Lib Dems on the rails.
Your own example relates to divergence in a ‘ward’. The trends which I’ve picked out refer to much-larger areas generally wider than a single constiuency and with a long-term voting trend.
408. Agreed. The quickest way to be put off the Tory party is to go to Conference and watch the flocks of to$$ers there.
But.. Bercow is much, much more than arrogant.
Go meet him Sean and see what you think!
Question for the Scots on here: JackW, Christina, Stuart, etc
I’ve just got my tickets for a Scottish jaunt in a coupla weeks: I’m writing an article about Knoydart and St Kilda, two places I’ve always longed to see. And now I’m going to see them!
*excited*
However the Scottish Tourist Authority are warning me that even in high summer there’s a decent chance the boat to Kilda won’t sail, due to adverse weather; so my one night camping trip on the wildest bit of Britain may be in jeopardy.
*worried*
Any idea how often these boats are cancelled in mid July?
You have to wonder, though, about someone whose ambitions soar to the heady heights of….becoming Speaker.
That is like having a keen interest in politics - and setting your heart on being a returning officer…
385 re PMQs.
Yes, I think we can all agree Cameron intends to paint Brown as a liar. So far, so good.
The question is whether he is going about in a way which might have unintended consequences: undermining his own policy position on cuts; and/or evoking sympathy for Brown.
Interesting. My views regarding PMQs are at odds with most others.
Yes, Brown was bad. We agree on that.
But I thought Cameron could’ve done better. He fumbled over his second question and repeated something that Brown had addressed. Later questions were a bit better. The real plus was that brown was clearly pissed to be in that position.
I thought Clegg’s questions were very good.
As for Bercow, a mixed review. Calling for quiet is well and good but I’m not sure the Chamber will be a sea of tranquility during PMQs. Pleased to see him cut off a Labour planted question about Tory policy.
However, if all he does is get blown with the gravity of power he still needs to be axed. A Speaker needs to be independent. Too early to say whether he will be.
400. I agree actually. This rush towards youthful leaders comes at the expense of experiance. If parties do insist on having youthful leaders its imperitive they should have older, experianced advisors.
412, It is perfectly possible for Bercow to be a horrible person and a good speaker.
You are arrogant Sean.
But you get away with it. Why?
Arrogance is a dish that should never to be served up on its own. It tastes dreadful. It needs seasoning. It could be charm, humour, eccentricity.
Bercow’s arrogance will be palatable if he does a good job. If he doesn’t, the taste he leaves in the mouth will be all the worse.
Noone seems to have mentioned the quip DC made when reading out an account of the last Cabinet and Darling and Cooper unhappy with McDoom’s line about cuts “He says he wants to be a tracher,, but hes already lost control of the classroom.” (not verbatim)
Conservative I am, but Brown was absolutely shockingly dreadful today (i only heard it up the DC’s bit, no idea if it got any better afterwards )(i doubt it)
Hello folks,
I have to say I thought Bercow was excellent at PMQs. I had no idea even who he was until the speaker contest started, but as of this PMQs, I’m impressed.
Just what we need - not afraid to intervene and try to put a cap on the childish noises that MPs seem to want to make, and he’s a lot wittier about it than Martin ever was.
OK, pretty low yardstick, but I still think Bercow did well.
Rob
400 Macolm. “With many experienced Tory backbenchers leaving Parliament at the next election and many of the squierarchy deemed unfit to take positions in a new Tory government is it not worrysome that Cameron’s choices might be very limited?”
They couldn’t do a worse job than the current lot - and don’t forget that there will be a massive new intake of Conservative MP’s. There will be some fair talent in that lot!
422 tracher= teacher
420 - the only problem with the experience argument - and it’s one I broadly agree with - is that you can have decades of the wrong type of experience, and it actually makes you an even worse choice for the leadership. Take the current PM, who had 10 years of bossing people around, not having to answer questions, dealing only with numbers and not people, and not having to learn the finer arts of politics.
PMQs Cameron 7 Brown 3 Clegg 6.
Thought Bercow was okay but I suspect he had a stiffy throughout with the excitement of being front and centre.
Brown was terribly angry - the hole he’s painted himself into is huge.
Cameron overall very solid - liked pincer movement with Clegg
416 Oddly, the guy who prunes my wysteria* has gone to St. Kilda this week. He says you have to keep phoning the mobile of the guy who runs the boats every day, because the weather is so unpredictable. Not helped by the fact that the mobile reception is very poor!
I’m seriously envious of that one - I don’t think any birders have ever successfully twitched St. Kilda. Seem to remember there was a Tennessee Warbler found there some years ago…
400 Malcolm
I think you are wrong about the Shadow Cabinet. Of course, opposition front-benchers always seem a bit lightweight, but that is only an impression based on limited media exposure. It will look very different once they are in power.
Even allowing for that, I think it’s a good line up. Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Grayling, Clarke and Hague are top-notch. Hammond, Herbert, Grieve, Duncan, Neville-Jones and many others are good for their roles. Lansley maybe needs to up his game a bit (although I think the relative quiet on the NHS may be deliberate). Willets and Letwin are good back-room policy wonks. Overall, I’d say Cameron’s got the right people in the right roles for the most part.
424.
“There will be some fair talent in that lot!”
Oh Dear! That would not do anything good for Mad Nad’s mental stat.
*joke.
429 Actually Lansley seems to have gone himself a lot of favours with workers in the NHS.
Its journalists he has a problem with.
re 339. Pat Hall has just given me a call and assured me that his was his own question and not what the whips wanted him to put.
He did say that whoever is in the list of likely PMQ questioners get leant on. He chose not to accept their suggestions.
I believe him.
432, Lansley will be fine as long as he’s sedated and kept incarcerated in a basement until mid-2010.
421 Great post.
Blair was and is arrogant but he sold it by persuading people that God (or “the people”) was on his side and so he was only representing them.
He also dressed it up with charm and humour. When he didn’t, and he just got coldly dismissive of “little people” who had the cheek to disagree with him, it was icy - really repulsive.
433 - Millions wouldn’t…..
The CC wards making up Colchester parliamentary seat voted
LibDem 11233 Con 7041 a 6% swing from Con to LibDem from the 2005 CC elections
The CC wards making up the new Chelmsford parliamentary seat voted LibDem 12311 Con 10415 a 2% swing from Con to LibDem from the 2005 CC elections .
I have a number of excel spreadsheets detailing the CC elections by parliamentary constituency , by county and a further analysis of interesting ( to me ) seats for all election results since 2005 . If anyone would like a copy or copies please email me on markpsenior@msn.com .
428. Thankyou. Golly, I hope the boats are running - this is a lifetime ambition, to visit Kilda.
As long term pb-ers might recall, I went to Foula a few years ago (the most remote inhabited isle in the UK) - that was incredible. But they say Kilda is even wilder.
*fingers x’d*
Buckingham
1/8 Bercow
9/2 Any other
433 If that question wasn’t planted, then I’m at a loss to see the difference from one that was. Extra compost, perhaps…
433,mike said,’I believe him’.mr smithson,lend me £1000,I’ll pay it back,’honest’.
429. “Even allowing for that, I think it’s a good line up. Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Grayling, Clarke and Hague are top-notch. Hammond, Herbert, Grieve, Duncan, Neville-Jones and many others are good for their roles. Lansley maybe needs to up his game a bit (although I think the relative quiet on the NHS may be deliberate). Willets and Letwin are good back-room policy wonks. Overall, I’d say Cameron’s got the right people in the right roles for the most part.”
I agree almost 100% with that analysis, except:
(1) Osbourne is a much better strategist than economist; he needs to swot up - Cable really shows him up in this respect
(2) IDS should be Work & Pensions - he is absolutely superb at social exclusion
(3) Howard Flight/John Redwood should have junior roles in the economics team
I wish I enough about the 2005 intake to comment on future junior ministerships for them but, I’m afraid I don’t.
This should not go un-noticed by the Opposition parties
A leading UK think tank has labelled the Treasury’s new 50% tax rate as ‘unfair, complex, inefficient and damaging.’
The Centre for Policy Studies says the 50% rate, which the Treasury estimates will raise an extra £2.4bn, is minimal compared to the £175bn in government borrowing requirements, according to telegraph.co.uk
The group has said some of Britain’s wealthiest taxpayers are now likely to turn their back on the country.
Corin Taylor, senior policy adviser at the Centre for Policy Studies, said the new rate is detrimental to the entrepreneurs who are instrumental in helping to bring the UK out of the recession.
‘Green shoots of recovery will wither and die if business leaders leave or choose not to come to this country because of the higher tax rate,’ he said.
439. 12.5% tax-free guaranteed return on my money inside 11 months?
I’m in!
416 In my experience, SeanT, it’s because the boatman on Iona couldn’t be a***d.
442 Agree IDS would be great DWP man. I’d like to see Hammond at Treasury for sure - he is a cool customer.
Lansley comes across as very straight but firm - the DoH is his I hope.
372.”341. Hague: “The Foreign Secretary is like Ahmadinejads nuclear missile programme; try as he might, he just can’t get it up!””
Hopefully, if its youtubed, someone will link it later?
David Milliband was almost rolling about on his bench at Hague’s last speech.
405.”I’m sure the Nelson thing is a shot across Bercows bows.”
Haven’t seen PMQ’s yet, but consensus seems to be that Bercow did well on his first outing, long may it continue. But I do wonder if Bercow spent too long wooing and forging friendships with the opposition MP’s, and not enough time doing the same with his own party and the media. He doesn’t seem to generate a groundswell of positive goodwill among some of our political lobby, if anything, some of them dislike him as much as some Tory MP’s. If he makes a good job of it, he ought to silence the doubters on the Tory benches and the media.
Millipede is really crap this afternoon.
416 SeanT. Unfortuanely the weather there is highly unpredicatble. You’re as likely to get four seasons in an hour as not even in Summer. There again you might get a mill pond for a couple of days.
Down to luck old chap. But if you’re lucky you’ll enjoy a quite magnificent and breathtaking few days.
443
It is generally accepted that the 50% tax rate is on the wrong side of the Laffer curve and was an obvious example of gesture politics.
447. lol Christina.
That wasn’t Hague, that was me taking the p*ss!!
( although, if he wants me to help write his speeches, he knows where to find my email address..
)
On experience, I come back to William Hague. He really is now one of our foremost Parliamentarians. When he lead the Tory Party he was excellent at knockabout but was not thoughtful and mature.
Now I take the point on bad experience, however I think that there are plenty of people full of vigour as they grow older. Blair looked good and was young but he was overwhelmed by two American Presidents and bent so much truth for political expediency for us to realise that a more experienced figure - John Smith, Kenneth Clarke, Peter Carrington, Robin Cook - would have taken a more mature position?
The points that I am making are serious. Some experiences are inherently bad; Brown, Beckett and others have grown senile by spending too much time in the Commons.
Final point. Aspiring US Senators have to be 35 years of age to enter the Senate. If we had a similar rule in the UK then we might have more experienced MPs, who have enjoyed real life experiences before they came into the House.
445.
“IDS ..is absolutely superb at social exclusion”
You’ve met him at a party too?
416 - my wife is a Scot, and in all the 30+ years we’ve been married, every time we’ve driven up to Scotland it has started to rain very soon afterwards. On returning across the border it has stopped equally quickly, enabling me to wax lyrically to her of the wonderful scenery in my beloved Yorkshire dales, whereas she at the same time was struggling mightily not to give me a bunch of fives out of sheer frustration. Even living on this side of the pond, it has happened flying into Scotland.
Since the mid 1970s I have never been in Scotland (some 20 or 30 visits), when it hasn’t rained most of the time. I know the scenery is fabulous - she tells me and I’ve seen pictures - but I have never seen it myself.
High 90s and no chance of rain in Atlanta today - just thought I’d let you know
Buckingham
1/8 Bercow
9/2 Any other
by shadsy June 24th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Is hunting dumb herd animals with odds legal?
452. Thanks Jack. Unfortunately I reckon I’m due some bad meteorological luck - my last two trips to the Hebrides have been blessed by gorgeous weather. I was in Ardnamurchan a couple of years ago - staying in the most stunning little croft in Strontian, and it was blue skies all day every day.
Absolutely idyllic. As I’m sure you know.
However I am given to understand that… it’s not always like this!
It’ll probably rain newts and tadpoles for a week and I shall be stuck in grisly Stornoway watching the locals have pub fights in Gaelic. So it goes.
438.”428. Thankyou. Golly, I hope the boats are running - this is a lifetime ambition, to visit Kilda.
As long term pb-ers might recall, I went to Foula a few years ago (the most remote inhabited isle in the UK) - that was incredible. But they say Kilda is even wilder.”
Seant, if you get there I will be envious, but I wouldn’t swap places with you on the boat trip! Marquee Mark advice is pretty sound, but your whole trip is going to be entirely in the hands of the weather, which in July can be totally unpredictable. Gut instinct, think it will be better this year and you might hit lucky. But be prepared to be patient.
Take last year, it was bl**dy miserable up near Torriden in July, more like early spring than the height of summer, and blowing a friggin gale.
But that didn’t stop the midges who seem to cope by putting on their thermals. Tip for the mainland at least, invest in a bottle of Avon, skin so soft. Even our hardened squaddies swear by it as a repellent up there. I noticed healthy stocks of it in the local shop where we stayed.
449.
“Lansley comes across as very straight but firm”
Real competition with GideO in the ‘goes down well with Mandy and the Med sailors’ stakes then.
457 Tim B, the same used to happen to me whenever I had the misfortune to visit Oxford. I either had to go to see a difficult client or to visit a close relative in hospital, and it always rained there as well. Pathetic fallacy in real life, I say.
456. lol wageslave!
But, seriously, the speeches IDS has given on social exclusion since he was ejected as leader - and the work he’s done with the Centre for Social Justice - have deeply moved the party. One speech he gave almost brought me to tears.
He really knows his stuff and has done great work in devising Conservative solutions to alleviating poverty.
I don’t doubt that he would do some great work in this area were he given the chance.
I think Bercow brings a breath of fresh air and is the first real 21st century speaker. He is articulate, has a passion for Parliament and was educated at a Comprehensive and Essex University and has the potential for reengaging the public with Parliament in a way that the much older Eton and Oxford Sir George Young could never hope to do, as decent as he is. Unlike Cameron Sir George is also clearly a figure of a previous age, while DC and Bercow both act like they are in touch with the Britain of today.
Returning to the economic issues which were discussed this morning can we stop saying that we’ve had a ‘boom and bust’ as we haven’t. What we’ve had was instead was something far worse, a ‘bubble and burst’ with the bubble being one of wealth consumption and the inflation of it being through increasing debt.
The last decade has been nothing like the 1980s when we really did have a ‘Lawson boom’. During the 1980s we saw genuine economic investment - can Labour point to any equivalent of the Channel Tunnel, the M25, Canary Wharf or the Japanese car factories in Sunderland, Swindon and Derby?
By 1990 industrial production was 33% higher than it was in 1981 and despite the early 80s recession was still 17% higher than it was in May 1979. The stock market also was at all time high and there had been a massive increase in home ownership.
Compare that to this decade when industrial production and the stock market both peaked as long ago as 2000. All we’ve had since was the illusion of economic success caused by ever increasing debt.
457 Tim B. Hhmmmm. Do you think the Scottish weather is saying something to you Tim ?!?
463 CR - I thought IDS has said that he doesn’t want to be on the front bench.
I agree about his work on social exclusion. However, the issue does very much straddle a number of different departments, which may perhaps be a factor in his thinking.
464.
Has ANYONE ever been ‘educated’ at Essex University? I thought that degrees there were awarded for the length of time you could spend sitting with your feet in the creek at Brightlingsea, telling rude jokes about Antony King. A sort of salt water Cambridge.
466.JackW, its when you stand in one spot and do a twirl taking in four seasons all at once. A sight to behold.
While out one day last week, I dutifully packed the waterproofs for the promised overcast weather and torrential rain, I got sunburnt instead!
457.
It’s 75 Fahrenheit, with cloudless skies, and low humidity, here in Fitzrovia.
Much nicer.
467.
” IDS has said that he doesn’t want to be on the front bench.”
Far more suited to the park bench, surely? And, unlike Rosie Boycott, you probably WOULD give him the price of a cup of tea with the vague belief that that’s what he’d do with it.
Has someone turned up Wage Slave’s patented bitter sarcasm dial a notch?
460 funny how things change - when I was at boarding school in late 60’s there were Forces kids and remember one friend’s Dad was stationed in St Kilda, and it wasn’t a popular posting
(too close to home but communications with family bad, no social life). Ranked slightly above RAF Gan, which was even more cut off and further (school friends going home to RAF Gan went on RAF transport planes).
Now St Kilda is linked up with internet & phones and while still probably boring socially is a place people boast of going to. As for Gan, the Maldives are not viewed as purgatory any more
re 420 MM you make scoff but he now ranks higher than everyone except Straw, Brown and Mandelson, and will very shortly become a privy counsellor
469.
One of the lesser-considered hazards of the ‘Brazilian’.
On the subject of IDS - I reckon there’s mileage in having a Dept that is actually focussed on the marginalised - they share a lot of common problems that require a peripatetic answer.
When I worked for the plod, we did some great research on how many of the most disadvantaged/difficult/ASBOlanders had a completely dislocated Big Government approach to dealing with them.
Local forces/services try to get it joined back up again at the foot of the pyramid - why not start from the top instead?
Issues such as mental health/teen pregnancy/low achievement/worklessness/early death/crime are all very closely linked.
459 Strontian? Stunning part of the world. A while since I’ve been there (usually dink off left and go for the Mull ferry).
I’m sure you already knew, but the element Strontium is named after Strontian, where its ore was first mined.
464. I see John Bercow has started posting on the site!
474.
“MM now ranks higher than everyone except Straw, Brown and Mandelson, and will very shortly become a privy counsellor”
This means tha
474.
“MM now ranks higher than everyone except Straw, Brown and Mandelson, and will very shortly become a privy counsellor”
This means tha
474.
“MM now ranks higher than everyone except Straw, Brown and Mandelson, and will very shortly become a privy counsellor”
This means tha
O/T but an interesting obit for the Dowager Marchioness of Aberdeen and Temair in today’s Indy.
Seemingly an unlucky family, or a pecularly non-fecund one as they’ve run through 7 marquesses in only 86 years.
Do you know them by any chance Jack W?
474 Chris A, thank you for my permission to scoff.
I shall use it wisely…
467. I hadn’t heard that Richard. If true, that’s a shame. He’d be a great asset to the team.
Can you think of a better match for him than Work & Pensions then? I’d want him in the Shadow Cabinet or not at all. His perspective needs to shape overall Tory strategy.
471. wageslave - I think you need to divorce your experiences of IDS as a leader with the excellent work he’s done as head of the CSJ. I was never that impressed with his leadership and even I was very surprised.
469 ChristinaD. A sight to behold indeed …. although I’ve a fancy that if I did a twirl in your company then you might require the smelling salts !!
http://500hats.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/01/kilt2zp9.jpg
466 - I don’t know if it was just the weather, but the ‘winter of discontent’ of 1978/79 said all we needed to hear - we were gone to N America in Jan ‘79. Spent 5 years back in the UK up to 2005 - Scotland weather still the same
470 - it doesn’t get that cool here even overnight at this time of year. I found out after living in Toronto for a while that I just don’t like being cold and it’s easy to get used to the heat - thanks to the wonders of air conditioning.
474.
“MM ….now ranks higher than everyone except Straw, Brown and Mandelson, and will very shortly become a privy counsellor”
This means that he can advise King Chazza and President Mandy on which loos to use. Terrific!
He ranks as high as any in Rome, eh?
re 441 Sean T yes Foula is beautiful in a bleak and windswept way, although bit of a white knuckle ride on the plane - I had to sit in the co-pilots seat on the way back to balance the weight properly. I’ve also always wanted to go to St Kilda, but the closest I’ve got is flying over it on the way to the USA. I’m envious.
484.
When he reverts to calling himself Smith, George, I shall revise my view of ‘IDS’. After all, if this line is good enough for GideO….
Until then, I shall see him merely as a skull-double for Willy Hague, who has rather more substantial cranial content (though probably not such a big heart).
Unfortunately we have a cloudy sky here in Rio de Janeiro.
486. I also like heat, and increasingly dislike the cold. Middle age no doubt. I adore Thailand’s climate November-March.
However I find ultra-high humidity equally uncomfortable. Hong Kong in summer has to be one of the most unbearable climates I have ever encountered. And American summer humidity can also be a trial: Texas in June?
Yikes.
Ideally I’d spend winters in Thailand, late Spring and summer in England or France, autumn in Greece, Turkey or Egypt. Not much to ask, really.
478. Nah. Can’t be. He praised someone else *other* than himself
491 So the full-size thong required on the beach today, eh?
489. Yes, the plane to Foula!!!! OhMyGoodness. Swooping over the Shetland cliffs.
The three days I spent on Foula it was - again - cloudless. The boisterous wind never dropped but it was endless sun. We climbed the Kame. Or was it the Sneug.
Blissful, anyway. Mad people live there.
re 488 David that thought did come to mind
493. silly me CR
I am becoming very concerned about Christina D. It would appear that, in her search for Britain’s most remote spot, she may have ceded Rockall to the Irish or the Icelandics, who may mine the guanno to replace their lost deposits. This kind of confusion/oversight by the Tories prompted the Falklands War, remember, which had a higher death-toll (and far more Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) than either Iraq or Afghanistan to date.
482 Chris A. No, not well at all.
PS Indeed I wrote about the barmy Foulans, here:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/article1080661.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
Speaking of little known facts - I learnt yesterday that shrapnel is named after the army officer who invented the shrapnel shell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Shrapnel
294-MM-Definately! It’s actually “cold” here.
498 The Scots are already there, mining away
http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk/2005/08/08/majestic-rockall.jpg
NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD ****
Is Jack W First Again ??
501 - I did not know that. I was always surprised that the world ‘flak’ actually comes from the name of a German anti-aircraft gun - Flugabwehrkanone.
Brown was a complete embarassment today.He floundered,was shown to be a liar and by the end was ranting and it was noticible how little support he had from his own side.Even my wife who has no interest in politics whatsoever remarked how crap Brown was today!!I think Bercow did pretty good for his first PMQ’s.Better than the previous incumbent ever did IMO.
However,am i alone in thinking how sexy Harman looks!!
Ooh anyone at CCHQ want to suggest what you are looking for in a press officer? I see there’s a job going. I think I would be jolly interested.
503.
That’s the projection for Everest after five years of a Tory government accelerates global warming!
I thought John Bercow was magnificient today. I do believe he will turn out to be the most outstanding speaker ever to be appointed to the HofC.
John B