Where does he go from here?
July 4th, 2009
Peter, Baron Mandelson, President of Europe?
It’s not often that I completely disagree with Our Genial Host, but this week he suggested that Peter Mandelson, Baron of Hartlepool and Foy, was perhaps not as masterful at modern politics as had been claimed. Personally, I think he has handled his third time in the Cabinet with more poise and prowess than he brought to his previous times in office. Indeed, he has yet to have a finger laid on him (those who tried have regretted it), and the perception of his work as Industry Secretary is that he is significantly more able than the vast majority of his Cabinet colleagues.
Peter Mandelson’s return to these shores has been a true blessing for anyone who writes about politics. There are few characters of such colour or presence, and few who could make the survival of the Labour party a realistic prospect at the next election. The Prime Minister should have been toppled twice in the last year, and each time he has been saved by the Dark Lord. Their Faustian pact has taken Mandelson from the finite position of European Commissioner, into the Cabinet, into the Lords for life, and finally elevated him to de facto (if not de jure) Deputy Prime Minister.
Considering the hand he was dealt - mutiny by half the Cabinet, impossible reshuffles, an economic crisis of massive proportions, the expenses scandal, and a PM who has consistently disappointed even his own supporters - it is perhaps staggering that one man has kept them from utterly disintegrating, managed the various ambitious egos, and limited the damage each time a wheel has fallen off the machine. And whilst looking after the interests of the Labour Party and the Prime Minister, he has found the time to gather to himself two departments, the largest number of subordinate Ministers of any Secretary of State, and to handle his day job and promotions.
Looking back, it seems almost criminal how poorly he was utilised by Tony Blair: the DTI was a low-level brief at the time, Minister Without Portfolio bore more jokes than responsibility, and he was ill-chosen to follow Mo Mowlam in Northern Ireland. I’ll let his enemies shiver at the prospect of how high he could have climbed had he not been brought down by a mortgage scandal that seems mild in the light of recent discoveries.
But there is a problem. Where does a man with those connections, those talents and experience, and that reputation go from here? He knows that the next election is all but lost, bar a miracle, but even having secured a legacy in this country beyond scandal and exile I cannot believe that his thirst for power and influence has been slaked. So what on earth will Peter Mandelson do next?
I am not one of the small number who think that, in the event of a sudden Brown exit, a member of the House of Lords could be invited by Her Majesty to act as interim Prime Minister. That job will never be his. The Foreign Office should have been, indeed would have been, if there had been more leeway and more time to oust David Miliband. Now Alan Johnson is settled at the Home Office and Balls is ready to take any vacancy that arises at the Treasury, there seems little left for the former Spin Doctor to capture.
I wondered if he would be offered, and might accept, a role in a Cameron government. Supporting ‘the true heir to Blair’ would have its benefits, not least the delicious irony of defecting from Labour at just the point that it had grown to love him back. But it would not allow him to remain as elevated as he is at present, and the price of treachery is well-known to seasoned operators. So where can he go?
Assuming, I think safely, that he would not be particularly enthused by being leader of the Opposition in the Lords, I suspect that there is one institution where his enoblement is not a bar to promotion, but may even facilitate it. Lord Mandelson was, I believe, highly regarded in his time as Trade Commissioner for the European Union. He held the most powerful and wide-ranging brief on the Commission - with diplomatic and economic matters folded in to boot. He is a staunch Europhile, and has done the EU a great favour by keeping David Cameron’s hands off the keys to Number 10 until the Lisbon Treaty is finally ratified by the last of the 27 member states. What would they have to offer to get him back?
The Guardian has reported that Tony Blair’s plans to become ‘President of the European Council’ are being threatened by Sweden and Spain, both of whom seem to be reluctant for a Galactico politician to create a European Presidency in his image. Blair’s support for Bush in the Iraq War also counts significantly against him. The other candidates are, if I may be forgiven, somewhat uninspiring, so would not this be the ideal move for our own Lord Mandelson to make?
The competancies of the European Union are primarily economic and diplomatic, concerned primarily with trade, and call for a politician of supreme talent. The first permanent President will need to be comfortable under the spotlight, but not desire to be the co-equal of Presidents Obama and Hu Jintao. He will need to be a true believer in the European project, and acceptable to the sceptical countries as much as those at the heart of Europe. He will need to understand the EU inside-out, and have a knack for bureaucratic manipulation. Who better fits those requirements than Mandelson?
There are no formal qualifications for the role - the Guardian article erroneously suggests that it should be a former President or Prime Minister, when some names have been mooted who have never held such positions. Here, Mandelson’s CV of honorifics puts him in as strong a position as, say, former Commissioner Emma Bonino MEP.
Even if his spat with President Sarkozy disbarred him from the job of President of the European Council, I also think he would be considered a strong choice for the unified position of High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy.
Politics has been more interesting since Peter Mandelson came back to our shores. I suspect that the end of the Labour government might see him return to the EU, because there is no longer anything more he can do here. The Prince of Darkness will not go gentle into that good night - there is much, much more for him to accomplish.
Morus
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Great Piece.
I read an article that refered to his almost “shintoist” worship of his Grandfather and the Labour party. I can’t see him serving the enemy. Surely a place as flame keeper of the Labour (electable) soul will tempt him too much.
In fact this is where he may well get the EU post you speculate on. Why would Cameron use a Tory nomination to the Commission for a non Tory ? or support a foe for a supra national job ?
To excorcise the Prince of Darkness from domestic politics one last time and keep Labour in opposition for a term longer than they would have done under his tutulage.
1 - Or because nominations will be submitted when Lisbon is ratified, which might be whilst Brown is still PM…
All slightly beyond the realms of the normal, but the question certainly needs to be asked.,,
Really need some sleep - g;night!!
OT I though Tims previous piece was very perseptive. I think cameron has called this right as surely the chances of a change from Brown and major reconstruction from the current cabinet is slim. Its a kind of MAP ( Mutually Assured Preservation ) all proffessions are conspiracies against the laity and Lab/Con have sacrificed just enough procipatory blood to assuage the war gods but not enough to avoid several plagues of Eygpt from an angry elecorate. ( Clegg has sacrificed no blood and has not gained any divine prizes as a result as he might otherwise have done)
However cameron does care wether he wins with 42% or 38% as long as the plague on all your houses effect keeps the gap between him and Brown the same.
I expect Major after shocks from expenses as papers, particulalry local rags, keep digging. We will see the odd extra scalp but at the momentCameron has shrewdly but perhaps not wisely judged that experience in government is worth risking the odd unexploded munition.
Tim should write again.
A wonderful post.
Peter Mandelson is the best political operator on the Labour benches in the traditional sense. He has created a unique position straddling a whip, a press officer, and a leader in his own right. His ability to smear is far better than, say, McBride, who was fairly inept at it. You are completely right to point out that no-one else could have kept Labour together when Purnell resigned.
He’s not so good under detailed interview scrutiny though. I’m not actually convinced he’s fantastic at his business brief - though given the difficult circumstances he’s doing a far more competent job than many other ministers.
He won’t be President of Europe though. He loves the institutions in Brussels, and is respected within them - but ultimately I think the new EU president will have to be a former PM or President, simply to have had at least some sort of previous national electoral mandate.
I also feel that any candidate would have to be from a Eurozone country, and probably a Schengen agreement country too. That would rule out Mandelson as well.
The question of whether the President will have to be from an old Europe or new Europe country is interesting. I can very easily see France, Britain, and Germany not accepting candidates from the other two - leaving candidates from middling or new EU countries with a clear run.
Reposted FPT
Treasury announces bonfire of quangos
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6633600.ece
Great - but why didn’t they do it 10 years ago?
OT - Anchorage Daily Times:
“Palin resignation shocks Alaska, nation”
http://www.adn.com/palin/story/852419.html
Maybe I’ve got a jaundiced view of Mandelson because we once both went after the same job and he got it ever me. That job was head of communications for the Labour party - it would have helped, I guess, if I had been a member though it was stressed that this was not a requirement.
The guy’s basic flaw is that he likes being the centre of the story too much. He’s also far too tactical and not a strategist - a characteristic he shares with Brown . Always looking for the quick fix without giving enough consideration to the big picture.
If Mandy has these alleged magical powers that Morus and others seem to be so transfixed by then that would have been shown by an improvement in Labour’s position since his return last October. Well things got off to a reasonable start and Labour got within one point in the polls before Christmas. But look what’s happened since then - disaster.
The great plus, of course, is that he does make politics more interesting.
If I was to rate his political skills against Osborne he’d get 4/10 to the latter’s 8/10.
About time he was dumped. Solid old conservative c0cky vote loser.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5736938/MPs-expenses-Alan-Duncan-claimed-63000-in-mortgage-flip.html
Alan Duncan, a senior Conservative MP, has claimed tens of thousands of pounds in mortgage interest on his designated second home – even though he had owned the property outright for more than a decade, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
7. Will you apply for the vacant Lib Dem Chief Execs job ?
You Should.
6,7. One other option for Mandelson would be one of the big Embassies. I bet his sense of vanity would deeply enhanced by being Lord John Marbury to the New Camalot of St Obama.
Super piece once again, Mr Morus.
Outside the party politics, the personal attacks, the lies and the spin - for which Mandelson should take a great deal of responsibility - there’s surely no contest when it comes to the crown for most feared operator in British politics. Mandy wears it.
Mind you, having said that, I can’t help but wonder whether a Mandelson having to explain himself to a rowdy House of Commons would be half as effective as the unelected master of all he has decided to survey.
Not wishing to take anything away from his undoubted scheming brilliance, he’s getting an the easiest of easy rides as a Minister-Lord, isn’t he?
Well, I’ll answer that myself: yes he is - and he shouldn’t be.
Conservativehome showing an impressive amount of hypocrisy
Here criticising the Lib Dem leaflet
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/goldlist/2009/07/another-classic-misleading-liberal-democrat-bar-chart.html#comment-6a00d83451b31c69e2011571b41060970b
while they earlier posted the Tory one which did exactly the same thing they complain about (adjust the heights of the bars).
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/goldlist/2009/06/tories-begin-norwich-north-campaign-with-attempt-to-kill-off-third-parties.html
*damns all the people who’ve filled the good blognames with placeholders*
I’ve been visiting internetless grandparents for a few days so a few queries/comments.
1. Has the Osborne expenses thing gone anywhere yet? I think I heard he’d claimed for a mortgage bigger than the cost of the house?
2. Bercow needs to clamp down at PMQs all round, Cameron no longer bothers with questions (I’m sure you’ll supply your own reasons why) and now just goes off on short (last time’s was rather longer). rants before gluing a question mark on the end so Brown can follow with his own. Much headbanging needed if possible.
3. What’s Palin resigning for? Any rumours?
4. Swine flu? 100,000 cases a day projected? Serious or scaremongering?
5. I assume someone’s mentioned the Ni-Gaz story.
11. The tabloid looks very,very negative about the Greens. Could back fire.
12. I have “Diary of a Liberal Lemon” on blogspot but have never used it. I doubt that counts though !
11 “exactly the same thing”? You live in a weird world of ratios and proportions, you LibDems. Since when did the Tories put out a leaflet which showed a 10% gap between the parties to be less than a 4% gap??? Which, laughably, is what your Norwich North leaflet shows. If you think 4 is greater than 10, then I suggest you move aside when it comes to getting the economy back on its feet - it’s that kind of counting from Labour that has got us where we are today.
And what is supposed to be wrong with the Tory leaflet? It shows the Labour lead of 8% as being half the size of the 16% LibDem vote - so the “can’t win here” LibDem voters could easily help topple Labour.
15. By exactly the same thing I meant (as stated) that they’d adjusted the heights of the bars to suit themselves. In that particular case it’s fairly clear that the Tory one has been pushed upwards, since it’s shown as easily more than the 3/4 of the Labour bar it should be and also above where it should be in comparison the Lib Dem vote.
The idea of a Brit getting a high ranking position while a Tory Govt is bringing back powers from the EU is surely negligible.
15 Marquee Mark - the gap is obviously just as dodgy on the Tory one as the 8% difference is about three times the size of the 17% difference rather than twice the size. I think the greatest hypocrisy though is that the leaflet reads like a Lib Dem leaflet in all respects (a record of action this, a local campaigner that etc.) - if Tories hate that style of campaigning so much (complete with dodgy bar charts)as they always seem to claim - why copy it?
Re Mike Smithson on his marks out of 10 for Mandy and OSborn - how does Osborn get 8/10? To me he seems to have been carried by Cameron - considering the lie of the political land his brief would surely give him the oppotunity to bestride the political stage smiting all before him. But the reality is, that the opposition politician who is the go to of the media and many many people when it comes to criticism of the economy is Vince Cable. Osborn has failed to define a coherent narrative of either the reasons of economic failure or how the Tories will fix it. This is partly because (rightly or wrongly) the Conservatives are flying in the face of the global economic zeitgeist somewhat, but partly because he is not a particularly warm or engaging politician and on occasions comes across (fairly or not) as lightweight. I can’t see where you get 8/10 from?
12 - I feel guilty now. I am very proud of the blogname that I reserved with just such a placeholder. Perhaps I should start posting.
16 My my - after all these leaders, the LibDems have finally got themselves a ruler…
Actually, the Libdem/Tory ratio looks fine - it’s the Labour who have a right to bitch as it’s their column that has had a bit shaved off it (about 8mm, on my screen - depends on the actual size of the leaflet).
Whereas, on the Libdem leaflet - the 4% between Labour and LibDems is represented by 17mm, whilst the 10% between LibDems and Tories is represented by just 13mm (when it should be 42.5mm!!).
So - enough of your indignation, please. The LibDem’s Crown as King of the Bar-chart Bollocks is not at risk…
Marquee Mark. Why the indignation? There is always the smell of desperation when a man resorts to counting size difference in millimetres.
Personally, I think that the era of the ‘dodgy’ bar chart is nearly over. Like any tactic, once it becomes well known enough for opponents to copy it whilst at the same time complaining about it, its effectiveness is probably on the wane.
In my old council ward I always used to shrink my majority by half on the dodgy bar chart. If third and fourth party voters realised by how much we were winning by we could never have squeezed them.
I think 21 is spot on. Once a tactic like this has been mainstreamed enough for your opponents to copy then its on its way out.
I also think the Growth of list system PR is erroding its effectiveness as well.
21 The indigantion was at Corporeal’s “impressive amount of hypocrisy” - which wasn’t exactly warranted.
And just so you know, I’ve never before needed to resort to measuring in millimetres!
(as a complete aside, the most spectacular blush I’ve ever seen anyone suffer was when a group of us from work were down the pub, and one of the ladies MEANT to ask how old I was. Oddly, the word she actually chose was long…)
Morus great article. Wish i could write as well as you . Mandelsons role is certainly very interesting. And almost unique in government. though some previous governments have had such figures, they are rare. Mandelson is a cunning and dangerous man.
22 As a tactic, dodgy bar-charts are also monstrously patronising - appealling to the innumerate in society is hardly something to shout about…
On topic, it seems entirely possible to me to regard Peter Mandelson the most impressive member of this Government and also to think that he ain’t all that. He’s better than 4/10 though - 6 or 7, I’d say. No one can make bricks without straw.
Where next for him? All political careers end in failure and I see no particular reason to think that Peter Mandelson will be the exception to the rule.
“he has yet to have a finger laid on him”
Wasn’t quite so lucky with the custard, though.
antifrank, do you really “live 5 minutes walk from home”?
Haven’t posted here in a while, but this has inspired me. President Mandelson? NO. A thousand no’s and always no, no, nay, never, no, nay, never no more. Niet. Nein. Neen. The guy is as honest as a Lib Dem bar chart…
26 - Oh damn you and your common sense!
26 - Clearly I really do work too much.
Barcharts out. Time for the piechart!
17 On the contrary I suspect that many in the EU would regard Mandy as the best placed person to know exactly where and how to frustrate any attempt by Cameron et al to negotiate any change in the UK’s relationship with the EU. He knows where bodies are buried, and if needed he is good at placing a few new ones to dig up when required.
Since the President is yet another job that is an EU leadership stitch up without reference to voters they can fix it for him if they want to.
Angela Eagle on Radio 4 is beating the Tories with John Bercow’s record. I think we can see why Labour chose Bercow for Speaker.
‘I’ll let his enemies shiver at the prospect of how high he could have climbed had he not been brought down by a mortgage scandal that seems mild in the light of recent discoveries.’
Can’t agree that that Mandleson’s mortgage scandal was mild compared to what we have seen since. It wasn’t just the fact he had an interest free mortgage from a friend. It was the fact that friend had been in charge of a company that collapsed amid a serious accounting scandal, a sort of British Enron, and was under investigation by the DTI, which Mandleson was in charge of, an investigation that went precisely no where. Just coincidental, perhaps, but doesn’t look good expecially when labour have appointed him Paymaster General, an odd choice in normal circumstances. Strikes me as at least as bad as anything we have seen in the present expenses scandal.
By the way, Morus, your contribution on the Ben Bradshaw article on Labourlist was splendid.
Morus excellent article.
Mandelson is clearly the man behind the already started election camapign.getting rid of PIO privatisation,ID changes is an attempt to get rid of any known area that would give the Cons a target.A succession of announcents on policy area aims to give the impression that Labour is busy doing things.Expect the campaign to get more negative and dirty ( another Mandelson trait)the nearer w eget to th election.
What next?Leader of the Labour party-not an interim Leader but the amn who picks up Labour after its likely election defeat.Yes first he has to get elected ,but Mandelson is young eneough to take the longer term view.The winner of teh next election has a poisoned chalice so in two(or even one) elections Labour could be back -saved by St Peter.
Great article Morus but there is only one place Peter Mandelson should be heading to- the nearest jail. He is a crook and people should never forget that.
As for President of Europe, David Cameron would never tolerate that.
Enjoyable article - I don’t think it will happen, but the indignation of the Mail and Express would be wonderrful to behold.
Corporeal:
- Osborne’s case is being nivestigated. These things take a long time (cf. Jacqui Smith) so don’t hold your breath.
- PMQ - so true.
- Palin claims she’s resigning to seek new pastures, and it’s speculated that she means ‘repare for a presidential run’, but the manner of her going (truly weird rambling speech, see it or YouTube) has damaged her. Rumours do suggest all is not entirely clean in the Alaskan administration.
- Swine flu: clearly lots of peoploe are getting it and lots more will. At present it seems to be no big deal unless one already has severe health issues.
- Ni-Gaz - que?
36, vielleicht. If he wants to garner support for a hardening of the EU-sceptic position, what better than a snake leading the unaccountable and unelected euroelite?
The chances of Mandelson being offered, and accepting, a role in a Cameron government are about the same as Margaret Thatcher being invited to join the Labour Party. I never really understood why both Labour PMs invited her round so publicly, something guarenteed to infuriate many of their own supporters. With Blair in 1997, there was at least the excuse that it might wind up the Tories even more than his own side but not by 2007.
The Conservatives have a particular loathing of Mandelson who represents everything seen as morally wrong with New Labour, combined with sufficient political skill and power to play no small part in keeping the Tories out of office for 12 years so far - and the methods by which some of that was achieved have not been forgotten.
As for Mandy’s future, much depends on whether decisions are taken pre- or post- election, and whether (as expected) Labour lose out to a Tory majority government.
If he stays and Cameron gets a healthy majority, he has no future beyond picking up juicy paychecks, infrequent visits to the Lords and the odd elder statesman interview. On the other hand, if the decisions are made before the election, or if Labour has some power after it, a return to Brussels might just be on the cards. It would be far more interesting to him and I believe he was liked and respected there.
The presidency position might be a step too far though. I agree with wibbler at [4], the president (should there be one - the Czechs haven’t ratified yet and might hold out until the result of the UK election is known), will almost certainly come from a Eurozone country, or at the very minimum, one that is about to join. Britain and Sweden are no-nos, as probably is Bulgaria. I’d be very surprised if the first president was a powerful politician from one of the major countries. That would be a real indication that the member states were serious about reducing their power relative to the EU - and I don’t think they are.
OT more pay tv
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5737233/MPs-expenses-Jeffrey-Donaldson-repays-555-claimed-for-pay-to-view-films-in-hotel.html
35. Baron Mandelson, of Foy in the County of Herefordshire and of Hartlepool in the County of Durham (to give him his proper personal title), will never be Labour leader.
Apart from his having to win a leadership election - something to which I don’t think he’s particularly suited, he’s a better backroom operator - he’s stuck in the Lords. There’s no provision to renounce a life peerage; the ‘life’ element is part of the deal: once you’re there, you’re there for life.
Even if a way could be found out of the Lords (if it was reformed on a democratic basis, for example), and while I accept he’s not too old for the job (he’ll be 56 at the next election), he may be too much ‘of the past’. The New Labour project will die with this administration. Arguably, it already has done and there’s now a different manifestation. New Labour will be no more electable after its defeat than an openly Thatcherite Tory party has been post-1997.
37 Nick - Regarding Ni-Gaz: not the best piece of corporate branding ever done:
http://af.reuters.com/article/investingNews/idAFJOE5600C020090701
Ni-gaz - With Attitude?
Interesting article Morus. Thanks.
Doesn’t seem much to bet on politically at the moment. Any value bets been floated here recently?
Mandy for PM, (who knows) well as the two main parties seem to be wrestling for the, ‘Pink Vote’ could be a good stroke to pull.
David H: Although Tony Blair is no longer seen as that likely a candidate, he’s not been ruled out on non-Eurozone grounds.
Meanwhile, the latest Telegraph expose:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5737233/MPs-expenses-Jeffrey-Donaldson-repays-555-claimed-for-pay-to-view-films-in-hotel.html
Without comment on Mr Donaldson, I remember once squirming over this sort of thing. When I was young and new in my IT job in Switzerland, I was sent to a conference in Germany, and in the evening channel-hopped on the hotel TV. One channel was showing a dodgy movie (Emmanuelle part 17 or something), with a warning that there would be a charge if I watched more than 10 minutes. So I thought hey, I’ll sample it. It was intensely dull and my attention wandered until bing! the charge kicked in. It duly turned up on the hotel bill as “miscellaneous”.
Dilemma: as a new staff member, do I claim it and almost certainly get away with it, or explain to my boss (perhaps a strait-laced fellow) why I’m not claiming it? In retrospect, of course, I should have knocked it off the claim and just explained that I’d watched an unspecified film - nobody would have cared what it was. But at the time it seemed a hideously embarrassing option. I squared my conscience by leaving it in but not claiming for the taxi to the airport, which cost more.
I tend to agree with the direction of the post but not its conclusion.
A Tory voting friend said to me during the “Brown to go” furore that he thought the best three media performer around were Blair, Cameron and Mandelson and I tend to agree.
However, with regards to the European Presidency I don’t think so.
Worog country and not enough support in the key Eurozone countries.
O/T - Here’s Sarah Palins resignation statement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqC1afO3Uo4&feature=related
Does anyone understand any of this?
OT I see Mr Clegg has joined in the Tories-hate-gays story.
My first reaction - creepy opportunist [again].
http://www.labourlist.org/conservatives-shoulder-to-shoulder-march-banning-bigots-nick-cle
37. NPMP, for once I agree with you; Palins speech was a minor disaster for her in my reckoning.
Whatever her reason for leaving the post of Governor of Alaska, the manner of her leaving puts paid to any future with the Republican Party.
If she runs for the senate only diehards will now support her. Pity really, as she could have made an attempt to get more worldly aware while in the governorship.
I believe her family and friends have given her the wrong advice.
Good post Morus - Mandy is a very slick operator who I’m sure won’t be happy to twiddle his thumbs in Opposition.
However, I don’t think he’d get the Presidency for the reasons others have already pointed out.
I’d put his chances of getting it in the same boat as Bercow becoming PM. He may want/plan and plot long for it but nope.
O/T - A semi religious cult immolates in real time.
http://www.conservatives4palin.com/
46 I have real trouble distinguishing between Palin and Couric in that clip.
I’d be surprised if there is more scandal to come out after the digging that went on only a few months back. One report said it was the cruel pee-taking by journalists about her kids that swung it.
48. O/T - A semi religious cult immolates in real time. tim
Yep, the cult of The Great Leader has certainly been well and truly smashed.
48 They can obviously only count on the fingers of one hand - from the comments:
“TWO WORDS…Very disappointed.
FOUR WORDS…Very disappointed for America.
SIX WORDS…Very disappointed for America and my kids.”
Interesting post. I’m sure Mandelson craves the top job in Europe, it appeals to his vanity, self-importance and warped sense of destiny. He also suits being a European apparatchik to his fingertips (nuff said).
Can’t actually see him getting the job though.
“Sarah Palin is now the joke her opponents wanted her to be ”
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyharnden/100002077/sarah-palin-is-now-the-joke-her-opponents-wanted-her-to-be/
Slight correction.
Sarah Palin has always been the joke her opponents wanted her to be.
44…she really is quite dreadful. you wonder,however,at the numpties who elected her. perhaps it is not just in the UK where standards have descended beneath the gutter.
Says it all really!
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/e-jane-dickson-who-wants-these-cuddly-conservatives-1731280.html
54 We are talking Alaska, remember…
55 or E Jane Dickson: Who wants these Flog ‘em and Hang ‘em Liberals?
Bernie Ecclestone - Hitler got things done..Max Mosley would make a good PM…admiration for Saddam Hussein and the Taliban…
remind me how much money the ‘Labour’ party took from this man?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jul/04/bernie-ecclestone-interview-hitler-saddam
Is it just me or will the 12 recess result in a scorched Earth period for PB too?
58 a million quid and a change in the law to benefit Ecclestone IIRC. If that happened with a loser like Brown and the defecit they have in the polls now it owuld bring down the government - back then the media just shrugged its shoulders and congratulated the establishment on encouraging the advertising of lung cancer.
60 Blair was reportedly very worried at the time that the Ecclestone million could have brought him down…what a world that would have been!
Morus, Double Carpet or DH - feel free to moderate post 60 if it is too close to the nub. I am in a snippy mood this morning.
Just to remind ourselves, how this terrible government has brought pain and misery to the most worthy of our citizens.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1197380/Anthea-Turner-Grant-Bovey-explain-lost-130m-blink-eye.html
58 I guess when you have that much money, you can say pretty much what you like
61 it really should have but the country had just installed Labour with a landslide and the country is not allowed to be utterly wrong.
58
I think the heat must be getting to people.
On thread
Mandy as President of Europe?. Europe has enough problems without adding to them.
58
Yeah! dreadful, (and as a staunch anti-smoker I really do) thank God we have people like Ken Clarke in the Tory Party to show us the error of our ways.
60 - There seems to be a banner ad “encouraging lung cancer” across the top of PB.com.
What are you implying?
65 Was it ever confirmed that Bernie cashed the returned £1m cheque?
68 I am implying that the whole situation around Eccelstone’s million stank, and the government permitting tobacco advertising on Formula One was disgraceful given the proven link to lung cancer.
Interest Disclaimer - I was a 2 packet a day smoker for 20 years.
60. Seems a reasonable comment to me.
Frankly, Ecclestone is himself exhibiting the traits of someone who’s enjoyed too much unchallenged power for too long. I thought the comment from the Board of Deputies of British Jews handled it nicely.
As for ‘I don’t think Max Moseley’s background would be a problem if he wanted to go into politics’, he might want to ask Max on that one. He at least does have some idea that the background issue might just have been an issue, even without Ecclestone sticking his size threes in it.
For me this Lord gives politics a very medieval feel
No, no, no. I’m sorry Morus but I really do not think this would happen. It does not fit with the thinking of the eurocrat. This is a whole elite of civil servant types, who believe in getting what they want through consensual discussion, appealing to European ‘ideals’ and soft persuasion Yes, Minister-style. They always refrain from difficult clashes, believing in threatens ever closer union. They regard Mandy as brash and difficult to work with. They would not want to risk someone as partisan and as crude in his methods splitting the continent on some controversial issue that may arise - and they have had direct experience of this in his zealousness in support of breaking down trade barriers. Regardless of what some posters on the right feel, they are not out to deliberately frustrate a Cameron government, they just would like to quietly get round what they consider as naive and reactionary nationalism, looking at it not in anger, but in pity. If it is a big name, it will be a softly, softly type like Merkel, otherwise it will be someone mostly unknown, a eurocrat or a politician from a small country.
I agree with Soctrates, he is a too divisive figure for that position.
o/t
another Labour MP standing down?
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2009/07/04/mp-henderson-preparing-to-leave-commons-at-next-election-61634-24071323/
71. I once read an interview with Mosley where he said from time to time gentlemen with German sounding accents would come up to him and whisper ‘your fazer vas a great man…’
Rod Crosby, perhaps?
Just what has he done as Business secretary Mr Morus.
Seen the unemployment figures lately?
Is Royal Mail to be privatised?
What is the future of Vauxhall - he he at the heart of the discussions? Will the plant at Luton survive.
Is there less or more business red tape since he came back to office?
Mandelson is a slimy conniving lying bastard.
Ecclestone? Aren’t all dictators undersized pipsqueak egotistical runts? No wonder he likes them.
Lets not forget Hitler loving Ecclestone is a donor to labour.
What on earth is Nick Clegg doing posting on Labour List ?
77. Helping out his friends.
77 Creating dividing lines with himself?
I assume he’s attempting to suck up to Labour voters who are planning on defecting elsewhere - what I think is even odder is that they let him?!
Clegg really needs to work out who is targetting - random pops at Labour/Tories leave me clueless about their agenda.
71 - I can’t imagine that a Hitlerian dictator, with a project based on racial purity and breeding a tall blond master race would necessarily be in Bernies interest.
http://www.flagworld.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/bernie-slavica-ecclestone.jpg
Someone should point out to him that Hitlers plans were for a 1000 year Reich, not a 1000 mm Reich.
79 is=he’s
80
77, adopting the little spoon position and hoping for snuggles?
77 Losing the plot?
76. Totally agree, he has done little apart from prop Brown up since returning , certainly little to help business or the country.
Re Mandy achievements - Saved LDV vans, oh no wait…
Just cleared several comments from moderation / spam, so the (a) the numbers will be a bit out and (b) it might be worth scrolling upthread to check on the ones that are now there.
10 months before a highly likely epochal defeat for the Labour Party and you write an article allying your self with said labour Party attempting to refight a 20 year old battle that you have already comprehensively won ?
Its the political equvalent of dressing up in confederate uniform and drilling with replica muskets.
What next ? Free Nelson Mandela ? A visit to Greenham Common ?
Section 28 helped define my politics as much as it did Cleggs. But the white flag was run up in that Struggle when May gave her “nasty party” speech.
And politics is about winning. We did win. We made the weather.
But you move on.
Camerons remarks are terrific because they make even more impossible than it already was was the closed issue of legaslative gay equality to ever be opened.
I want gay rights as relavant as the Factory Acts not a live issue being deseperately exhumed from the grave as badly decomposed wedge issue ?
FFS what narrative is trying to be written by that article ?
39 DH
“I never really understood why both Labour PMs invited her round so publicly, something guarenteed to infuriate many of their own supporters. With Blair in 1997, there was at least the excuse that it might wind up the Tories even more than his own side but not by 2007.”
Because Labour supporters had nowhere to go and Blair/Brown were concentrating on aspirational middle class swing voters - the same reasons behind eliminating the 10% tax band to cut 2p for those in the 22p band.
It also explains Labour Headless Chicken syndrome in the face of what are small swings to the BNP
93. “Nasty Tories”.
It’ll only work though if people listen and believe it.
Alternatively, Clegg is just psychologically most at home in the era in which Brown also feels most comfortable, fighting the Tories in the mid-80s.
Fine piece, Morus.
See you soon.
It sounds to me like free advertising for the Liberal Democrats on a subject and in a space read by thousands (?) of Labour voters, some of whom might be looking for a new political home.
Conservatives on PBC are always saying that the Liberal Democrats ought to be going after the Labour vote - and behold, here is Nick Clegg love-bombing them for all he is worth!
You Conservatives are never satisfied!
94. But apart from perhaps a minor effect from appearing big-tentish (and frankly did anyone believe it was anything other than a PR stunt on either occasion?), the problem’s with the figure of Thatcher: she’s incredibly divisive. I’m confident that the crossover between those who approve of her individually - as opposed to the policies of her government in the 1980s - and those who were target voters for Labour are heavily outweighed by those who were Labour voters and repelled by the meetings.
Blair at least had the excuse that Thatcher had been a thorn in the side of the Conservative leadership during the previous parliament and was an active political figure.
Of course, you may well be right that Labour thought that their voters had nowhere to go but even between 1997 and 2001 they were wrong: millions stayed at home in 2001 and haven’t returned since.
MPs’ expenses: Jeffrey Donaldson (Democratic Unionist MP) repays £555 claimed for pay-to-view films in hotel
In total, Mr Donaldson submitted second home claim forms, including receipts, relating to 68 pay-to-view movies.
Hotel sources confirmed that films he put on his expenses during 2004 and 2005 were in the highest price category offered to guests, covering the latest blockbusters and adult movies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5737233/MPs-expenses-Jeffrey-Donaldson-repays-555-claimed-for-pay-to-view-films-in-hotel.html
MPs’ expenses: Jeffrey Donaldson (Democratic Unionist MP) repays £555 claimed for pay-to-view films in hotel
In total, Mr Donaldson submitted second home claim forms, including receipts, relating to 68 pay-to-view movies.
Hotel sources confirmed that films he put on his expenses during 2004 and 2005 were in the highest price category offered to guests, covering the latest blockbusters and adult movies.
Link hitting spam filter, but sure you know the drill.
93. I would like a free Nelson Mandela (I’ll get my coat)
62 - I think it’s ok.
Glad some of you have enjoyed the morning musing.
I sort of agree with Socrates on what the Eurocrats want, but not that Mandelson was unsuitable. He’s fought and won some battles that the EU wanted him to win. Once Lisbon is ratified, it will be about implementing those changes - they need more than a former PM for Luxembourg to do that.
OGH’s post at 7 is a must-read (I know they say party membership isn’t a requirement, but they assume everyone who isn’t is a spy). I agree Mandelson is a better tactician than he is a strategist, but he’s not completely lacking in the latter case. With the EU strategy already set out in the Lisbon Treaty, I think a great tactician is what is needed. I share your respect for Osborne, but cannot agree on your scoring: Mandelson has been great for Labour in the last year or so - Osborne has been nothing but a liability since Mandelson returned (Deripaska, Bullingdon, expenses enquiry). He’s talented, but he’s been schooled the last 9 months.
The polls are what they are - back where they were in October 2008 when he came back, in spite of lots of bad things happening. Without him, I suspect Labour would already have lost a GE by 20 points - as it is, they are about 12 behind, with 11 months to play, and a change of leader in hand. That’s a win for Mandelson.
Fundamentally, the EU Presidency seems to be cast at the moment as a choice between two options: a notional figurehead (like the President of Germany) which will be given to an obscure former PM of Luxembourg or the like, or the beginnings of a rival figurehead to POTUS: a Tony Blair style President of Europe.
I don’t think anyone in the EU is entirely happy with either path: they worry about the Blair route, and yet the former type of choice seems underwhelming, and might actually struggle to do a rather difficult job. Mandelson is a third-way style candidate - there might be others, but I honestly think he would be just right for the job.
If not the EU Presidency, do people think he could get the EU Foreign Minister job?
Green revolution’ could create 400,000 jobs, claim ministers
A “green revolution” that should create 400,000 jobs is to be launched by ministers later this month in the most ambitious ever bid to transform the British economy, industry and sources of energy.
The plans will be spelt out in three documents due to be published in about ten days time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5734229/Green-revolution-could-create-400000-jobs-claim-ministers.html
Hold on haven’t we heard this somewhere before?
102 “[Mandelson]’s fought and won some battles that the EU wanted him to win. Once Lisbon is ratified, it will be about implementing those changes”
His greatest trumpeted triumph will be keeping Gordon Brown’s government from collapsing and allowing the Tories in to undo Lisbon. I think he will remind the Eurocracy long and often of that (whether it is actually true or not!).
Pure speculation, but could Palin be planning to follow Aitken’s example, and go into the courts. Trying to reverse the ruling that created the current US libel standard would be quixotic, but there’s lot of anger on the US right against the media. If Palin won any kind of legal victory, not necessarily over libel, her reputation among Republican activists would be boosted enormously.
I suspect that if Palin doesn’t do this, and there are probably good reasons why she wouldn’t, some maverick will, sooner or later, and not necessarily a Republican. Activists of both parties blame the media when they lose, and while taking the media on in court would be a gamble, the potential pay-off is huge.
Mandelson is the not the operator he once was for dozens of reasons, the main one being the press. When labour were the story he had the journo’s, they needed his stories and so they reported what he wanted. Since he’s come back this time how well has the labour spin operation really worked? He comes on telly this week trying to smear Osborne by claiming he’s reduced politics to the gutter, promptly get’s laughed at and roundly ignored. His attempt to smear Damien Green failed, his attempt to excuse the royal mail disaster was an even BIGGER disaster, making the government look incredibly stupid in the process and giving the tories a huge target to aim at.
Overall he’s done well for himself, managing to make some clever decisions, but as he refuses to take part in debates against tories on telly, and he’s a lord so isn’t subject to the commons rough and tumble, why has he done so well? Ken Clarke has him all ends up over everything in front of the camera and he knows it, the royal mail debacle has proved that. Mandy makes feeble excuses and wanders off, Clarke swaggers in and smashes the government excuses in a short interview, then saunters off for a g & t. Overall labour strategy hasn’t imrpoved, if anything it’s become shambolic and incoherant since Mandy’s return, more interested in winning the next news cycle while Cameron and his bunch lay foundations for the next election.
I think a lot of people here seem to think that because of his reputation Mandelson is still a brilliant policial operator, when labours dreadful poll ratings and incoherant policies still haven’t improved. If anything, Mandelson’s tangle over the royal mail has added to those woes.
81 - TrevorsDen raises a good, if intemperate, point which is “what has Mandelson done as Business Secretary?”.
I deliberately went on the “is seen to have done a good job….” line because I didn’t want to distract the issue, but maybe it’s worth a look.
I must be honest, until the Recession, I never really saw the need for a Business Secretary - maybe a Minister in the Treasury, so maybe my expenctations were unduly low.
Good stuff? I’d include: making all of Gvt pay bills in 10 days to help supplier with working capital and cash flow was a neat move that I liked. The part-privatisation of Royal Mail will happen, and he has given the Tories a huge hand by taking so much of it on the chin - now when they do it, they can say o the obstructive unions “you had the chance to get it done nicely and you blocked it”.
Is there more or less red tape since he joined? I don’t know - maybe the same, but still too much (as always).
What I like is what he hasn’t done. He hasn’t bailed out every big name that got in trouble - a Labour business secretary in these circumstances very quickly could have spent a huge amount of money rescuing firms only to see them fold a few months later. I like that he hasn’t actually done too much, or cost us too much money.
The unemployment figures are bad, but many on here expected them to be worse. He’s not the Messiah, and he is a very naughty boy, but I don’t think we should necessarily blame him for the recession. I think, in all areas, he’s made a very good fist of a very bad hand.
103 “Hold on haven’t we heard this somewhere before?”
29th June 2009, anyone?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/29/green-jobs-brown
97 - I think that’s the idea, making it easier for strong labourites to consider voting lib dem, similar to Cameron’s ‘love bombing’ towards lib dems.
Not sure about the effect though, if anyone reads labour list their politics (of whatever colour) is pretty much fixed.
As for Palin, I linked to a few things on the last thread but - that speech. Crazy. Batshit moonshine crazy. It didn’t make sense politically but it didn’t even make sense as words strung together.
Suggestions range from her giving up politics totally to corruption charges to a presidential run.
For entertainment value I hope she sticks around, Stewart and Colbert must be praying she does too.
97 - Without looking in detail I’d guess that most of the Lib Dem target seats don’t involve Tory front benchers who have recalibrated their views on gay issues.
Clegg needs labour voters to get behind him in these seats, and if the sitting Tory has an anti gay rights voting record then what harm does it do the Lib Dems to raise it?
110.Trying to remove sitting tories was at the heart of the lib dems last election strategy, it was an epic failure and pushed the party backwards.
93. YS - it just shows once again that the leadership of the Lib Dems shares the same mindset as that of New Labour, I’m afraid.
This way, oblivion beckons…
O/T could I just say I was thrilled yesterday to hear Murray had been eliminated.
One ugly face-pulling* Scotch creep down, one to go.
* OK, I know face-pulling is necessary in order to speak with a Scotch accent, but yer know what I mean.
On Palin again (hattip to David Kurtz at TPM for picking this out).
“Life is too short to compromise time and resources… it may be tempting and more comfortable to just keep your head down, plod along, and appease those who demand: “Sit down and shut up”, but that’s the worthless, easy path; that’s a quitter’s way out.”
That’s right, people who don’t quit are quitters, people who quit aren’t.
What is this mindset that thinks that upending logic is laudable - War is peace, black is white, not quitting is quitting? It’s the audacity of the big lie (pace Brown), tell people something so astonishingly unbelievable and then savour the thrill of seeing some people believe it. If you can do that then you can make them believe, and do, anything.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/07/shorter_palin_real_winners_quit.php?ref=fpblg
103 On the subject of all things green and job creation, whatever happened to all those loft laggers?
A builder friend of mine went on the lagging course last month with a promise to swamp him with work before the end of June [the timetable they'd been set to use up the subsidy funds].
He did two jobs and was promptly told that there was now no money to pay for more and the scheme was shelved. To say he was annoyed… reminds me of the HIPs courses only thankfully a lot cheaper.
Two people I know got stung royally by that one.
I wonder if a list of things Labour have promised and never materialised would be a useful Tory campaign angle…
Free computer anyone?
111 - In a marginal like Eastbourne, with a sitting Tory with these attitudes.
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpid=1564&dmp=826
why not use it?
115 - I would be shocked if the promises that have never materialised or the schemes that have helped 5 people or the advertising campaigns that nobody watched aren’t stored for ready for deployment. There are just so so many of these things that have been promised then either never actually been delivered or if they have, have been a massive failure.
Doug Henderson to stand down
116 Or even,
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=Gordon_Brown&mpc=Kirkcaldy_%26amp%3B_Cowdenbeath&house=commons&dmp=826
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=Gordon_Brown&mpc=Kirkcaldy_%26amp%3B_Cowdenbeath&house=commons&dmp=808
That’s a hell of a lot of “sorry sir I forgot my homework”!
116 Eastbourne is socially conservative with a small c place.
Waterson has been MP since 1992 and yes it would be a tight marginal if the LDs played the right sort of campaign.
However, Eastbourne is not Brighton. They would be better off campaigning on care home fees, free travel and geriatric services if they want to get those who are most likely to switch.
Notice to all Mandelson Worshippers - Take off your rosetinted glasses !
81. Spot on what has he done full stop !
It makes me so angry that some people seem to think he is some sort of Messiah. For heavens sake the slimeball has been booted out of the government twice, he’s unnellected and shouldn’t be in such a position of power.
There is only one reason he has survived, he has obviously got something on Blair and Brown. Its a pity some of you shortsighted Mandelson Worshippers can’t see that, take those rosetinted glasses off at once, you will feel much better afterwards !
Clegg article has a similar smell of his ever so successful Tory charge on peedos during the Euro elections.
Personally, I think Clegg would be far better concentrating on setting out the Lib Dem “vision” at ever opportunity, as they only get limited media coverage and given that they have a escaped the expenses scandal spotlight (rightly or wrongly), I’m sure there are plenty of votes up for grabs from disgruntled members of the public, who want to see ideas on the really big issues (not a spat over who is the most gay friendly these days).
Where does he go from here ?
Hell I hope in a handcart with one wheel the slimey C4nt !
Excellent expose of DT puffing stuff from Ben Goldacre.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jul/04/bad-science-rape-study-telegraph
Wayne - dial it down to five.
120 - Nigel Waterson is vulnerable if the Lib Dems play it right.
He certainly is not the very short priced favourite that the bookies have him priced up at.
125.
why its no worse than a lot of what i see on here ! or is it just because its Mandelson
Hunky Dunky not taking the Telegraph story lying down,
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/MPs-Expenses-Conservative-Alan-Duncan-Says-Daily-Telegraph-Allegations-Are-Deceitful-Journalism/Article/200907115329178?lpos=Politics_First_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15329178_MPs_Expenses%3A_Conservative_Alan_Duncan_Says_Daily_Telegraph_Allegations_Are_Deceitful_Journalism
Iain Dale has set out his views [again] on Labour’s tactics re gay bashing legislation.
http://www.iaindale.blogspot.com/
Where does he go from here?
In order to keep hom sap’s final minutes from being contaminated by unseemly mass-panic, the knowledge has not been widely-disseminated that the Earth as we know it will, next Tuesday, be hit by a massive asteroid which will totally destroy humanity and our green/blue habitat. Seconds before the asteroid hits, there will be launched into galactic overdrive a capsule containing a perpetual tape-loop bringing, to all alien beings encountered in space-time, an endless account of the benefits to humanity brought about by Lord Mandlefey. At least that was on the Euro-subsidised commissioning chitty. In order to ensure that the aliens are not totally bored out of their skulls the Peter-loopy has been substituted by a more meaningful document: the love poems of Bubbles the Chimpanzee.
As I have said before, Mandleson is like a conjurer where you can see him hiding the rabbit in the hat under the table, yet when he pulls it out the press and politicians are still amazed by the trick and declare what a masterful illusionist he is
What makes you think, Plato, that the Liberal Democrats are not “campaigning on care home fees, free travel and geriatric services” in places like Eastbourne? I claim no special knowledge, but I would be much surprised if they weren’t - because these issues are precisely what distinguishes them from mainline Conservatives.
But at the same time, Nick Clegg is making a bid for any wavering Labour votes. Not much point in leaving them for the Conservatives and BNP to hoover up.
And posting an article on Labour List in no way reduces the amount of time that the BBC (with its usual pro-Labour pro-Conservative bias) are disposed to allow the Liberal Democrat case. This is pure bonus.
But there is also a dog whistle, I think, coming from the Labour Party to their disillusioned supporters. It’s OK to vote Lib Dem, rather than BNP or Conservative. That seems reasonable enough to me.
Great article, Morus.
A little O/T- A curiosity, don’t know if many will be interested. Yesterday, a study made here in Brazil, showed that Brazilian MPs are 6.5 more expensive than British ones(the study made some kind of relation between salaries, benefits associated with GDP to get to this result)
128.
” Telegraph story lying down,”
How do we measure the dimunition of lying in the Telegraph? Their editorial today points out that the jury is still out whether there is anything at all to Chamereon other than being a passably-talented Labour-disser (Code for ‘no he’s ****in well not).
Hefferlump though, take’s Today’s hellograph Garibaldi, stringing together several hundred random words under the headline ‘Fulltime MPs would mean more sleaze’ without even advancing a single argument to justify this ludicrous postulate. But then, stringing together intelligent truths has never been an issue which would appear to have ever taxed the Heff much, has it (don’t count his Chamereoon-knocking tirades which comes under the category of ‘too easy stating of the obvious’)?
I’m very sceptical has to how much Labour vote is left to squeeze in some of these marginals. For every Labour voter in Eastbourne who has resisted 20 years of tactical voting messages there are probably 10 Lib/Con switchers.
I remember when I was knocking up in the Cheadle By Election that i was told by a local activist that the difference between a Lib dem voter and a Tory one was an extra recycling bin.
Those Lib/Con switchers don’t need subliminal ” Labours Little Helpers” messages.
If only dissolutioned Labour voters read Labour List then fair enough but by the power of the interweb every narrative framer in british politics reads labour List.
That article send the subliminal message that deep in the Lib Dem reptilian brain stem the party will always side with Labour because its still 1986.
We should should be setting out a vision for the 21st Centuary not having the comms equivalent of Ashes to Ashes.
I think its possible that Morus might be viewing things through too much of a Londoncentric prism.
Not only regarding Mandelson but his recent article about swine fever:
“Let us not also forget that Brown tends to experience a bounce in the face of massive (perceived) crises - so it was in the moments of greatest panic about the Economic Downturn, and his initial months saw him bask - not only in the honeymoon of a new leader - but in his sober and sure-footed response to floods and the terrorist attack on Glasgow airport.”
Sure-footed response to floods???????
I’m sorry Morus but you’re very wrong at that point.
I doubt you’ll find anyone in Yorkshire who thinks Brown handled the floods of 2007 well.
Likewise any serious analysis or personal experience of the other crises of 2007 will show Brown as anything but ’sure-footed’.
What you had in reality in the summer of 2007 was the media and in particular the BBC praising Brown to the skies for the sole reason that he wasn’t Tony Blair. Brown was apparantly the new Churchill, a leader of courage and strength and vision. Well we know what happened a few weeks later.
132 - The headline campaign from the Lib Dems website is a campaign against the Tory Council closing an Old Age Peoples Home.
131.
The reason for the continual gushing emissions of Mandy’s supplicant media-harem might imply that he is a much more dexterous under-cover operator with that Rabbit of his.
126 History is not with the Lib Dems
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/constituency/908/eastbourne
In Eastbourne we do very nice civic floral displays, the biggest Armed Services recruitment event in the South and outdoor music involving a bandstand and brass instruments [and occasionally pan-pipes in the pedestrianised High St].
Gay politics are nowhere on the agenda. Waterson’s majority has been small for a long time but I’d be very surprised if he lost his seat now over an issue that is simply not in the Top 20 for most residents.
If Clegg offered subsidised mobility scooters and had a LD stand at Airbourne then he may get some traction.
http://www.eastbourne.gov.uk/eastbourne/tourism/eastbourne-events/airbourne/
Does anyhone give a flying one as to which of the Williams sisters wins Wimbledon?
I think you are wrong, YS. You might have been right if there had been no change in the population of Eastbourne over the last 20 years.
However, all the people who have moved in recently certainly need to be reminded of the tactical vote message.
I know the Conservatives are always on about “Labour’s little helpers” because it suits their campaign message, but you do need to bear in mind that on some issues Liberal Democrats will coincide with the Conservatives and at other times with Labour.
But they always coincide completely with Liberal values.
So perhaps it might be more correct to talk about “the Liberal Democrats’ little helpers”, when referring to both Labour and Conservatives?
7.”The guy’s basic flaw is that he likes being the centre of the story too much. He’s also far too tactical and not a strategist - a characteristic he shares with Brown . Always looking for the quick fix without giving enough consideration to the big picture.”
Mike, I agree with you on the issue of Mandelson. He is too much of a maverick, and almost obsessional with trying to control his own image in the media. I also think that he used up all his credit with the media during his previous stints in government. Oh, they enjoy having him back in front lines politics, he certainly adds a bit of colour and co-ordination to Brown’s Cabinet. But he does share one other fundamental flaw with Brown and Balls, and that makes him as big a liability in the same way.
I take it you marked him down as a tactician, but gave Osborne the higher score for being a much more clever long term strategist?
Osborne is going to be harder to define in the years to come, and unlike Brown and Mandelson, he doesn’t seek the limelight or the credit in the same way. That is why I think that so many still underestimate him and his abilities as a strategist, or a Shadow Chancellor. And that will be no bad thing in the longer run for a Cameron led Conservative government.
140 - Simple answer no!
Tim, Whilst I dont agree with Watersons views, before you criticise others its best to have your own house in order first particularly relating to your odious class based obsessions.
O/T I wonder if UKIP and Tories will ever form an electoral pact, after all they are both Eurosceptic so wouldn’t it be better for both of to do a deal to crush the Euro-federalist alliance of Labour and Lib Dems? Are there any betting odds on this? Just think UKIP pulling out of marginal Lab-Tory seats would do? Or the possibility of the first UKIP MP?
132 Pat Ryan, I didn’t say they weren’t
I said that to use the gay rights argument [as suggested by tim based on the local Tory MPs voting record] is the wrong one for my local big town.
Anyone with two brain cells knows that the elderly population is the core local vote and they are conservative in outlook [small and big C].
140, I’d prefer Serena, 6-0, 6-0. Only because that’s the only way I can top a fantasy tennis league I took part in. Led for ages, but Roddick beating Murray means I need crushing victories for Serena and Federer to get back on top.
145, unlikely. I don’t see why the Tories would want to share the right wing with another party.
I fine it unusual that a northern arable farmer like Tim has such as interest in gay rights.
Not normally high on their list of priorities.
Perhaps Tim is rather more cosmopolitan that the average northern farmer. He’s said before that he has Asian neighbours, that’s not common for northern farmers either.
#40 Swine flu: clearly lots of people are getting it and lots more will. At present it seems to be no big deal unless one already has severe health issues.
Nick with respect this may be a little simplistic - I have seen it suggested that in the US this number is now running close to 50/50 UHC/Non-UHC.
If you think about it patients with UHC will move to crisis quicker than the the ‘healthy’ group and this has the potential to skew the numbers during the early phase.
142.
“Osborne the higher score for being a much more clever long term strategist?”
Aha! So it is long-term strategy which is causing Gide0 to send to all the voters of Norwich North a leaflet about expenses ahead of the official inquiries? :
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451b31c69e2011570c04a13970c-500wi
Chamereon’s own letter to the Norwich voters on this issue could have been shorter and much more to the point:
“Dear Voter, our candidate in this by-election knows all there is to know about MP’s expenses, after all for much of her short adult life she has been one. For my own part, I have invented a spiffing list of ‘abuses’, which are largely-irrelevent to the long list of disgraceful practices my own Tory MPs have been up to, so they can all carry on much as before. Except of course for that b******d Bill Cash who had it coming to him.”
Love and kisses from the beach in Turke….. whoops! Suffolk.
PS. Camp David is greener than Gay Gordon.
145 ctd
Europe will dominate the next GE and could cause the UK to split up
Eurosceptic Parties (England)
Conservatives
UKIP
Veritas
BNP
English Democrats/England First Party
Free England Party
No2EU
Euro-federalist Parties (England)
Labour
Liberal Democrats
Mebyon Kernow
The eurosceptic vote is so badly split up, which could let in the federalists by default.
Eurosceptic Parties (Scotland)
Tories
UKIP
Scottish Enterprise Party
Euro-federalist Parties (Scotland)
Labour
Lib-Dems
SNP
Scotland is clearly very pro-EU judging by the relative strength of the combined Labour/SNP vote to the much smaller Tories/UKIP voting pool.
On the other hand, England is becoming more and more anti-EU day by day, whereas Scotland is wanting to embrace the EU. The EU debate may bring about the breakup of the UK, rather than devolution.
149 I find it equally baffling that anyone on PB would take a constituency stuffed with the over 60s/ex-services and has been voting Tory since 1992 as fertile ground for gay rights irrespective of the size of the MP’s majority.
And I’ve yet to meet an Asian farmer down this way - plenty without all their fingers though [farmers that is] …
#150 The Canadian perspective:
Nearly two-thirds of Canadians hospitalized due to swine flu, and half of those who have died, had no underlying health conditions.
Experts do not yet understand why the new strain affects some healthy people so severely, ravaging their lungs with an aggressive pneumonia and forcing them to spend weeks in hospital, attached to breathing machines.
“They are ending up on ventilators and it can last from weeks to months,” said Michael Gardam, director of infectious diseases at the Ontario Agency for Health Protection and Promotion. “I would like people to be concerned about H1N1, without panicking. More concerned than they are about seasonal flu.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/swine-flu-hitting-young-healthy-adults-hardest/article1203826/
148. If Labour manages to turn things around the Tories will be forced to deals with UKIP or fail to gain at least 30 seats needed to win the next GE.
152 francis - you are kidding aren’t you?
“Europe will dominate the next GE and could cause the UK to split up”.
And the economy will be where on the radar exactly?
152 Can’t say the “Scottish Enterprise Party” had popped up on my radar before. Have they got any traction at all with voters?
156, although I agree it won’t be as important as francis asserts, it’s telling that the Celts are pro-EU and the Saxons are not.
155, I cannot foresee a situation where the Tories are close to achieving a majority with UKIP acquiring enough seats in Westminster to make up the difference.
156. Yes the economy will be high on the radar, but why did UKIP do so well? Is it because their priority is to improve the economy? Look at their manifesto and you see why they did well. English people want to renegotiate the EU treaties that were signed years ago by traitors like Heath, Thatcher, Major, B.Liar etc etc.
155 “if Labour manages to turn things around…”
Well that’s not exactly very likely unless Cameron is fingered as the next Operation Ore suspect.
158. No voting UKIP in marginal Lab-Tory seats lets in federalist Labour. So voting UKIP does the opposite to what is intended. So a Eurosceptic convention is needed, a bit like the Lib-Lab pacts of 1977 and ‘Bliars’ Cabinet job offer to Lord Ashdown in 1996.
154. Thats in-line with the experiance is the US and Mexico, I think? It does appear that the America’s have got a rather more extreme varient of the virus than Europe? Though I suppose it could be that far more people are getting this Flu in the America’s and when/if we get the same number of people getting this Flu in Europe we’ll see similar experiances?
160, then UKIP supporters would be thick as hell. It’s one thing if a candidate has a realistic chance, but otherwise it’s stupid.
I hope Cameron is pretty EU-sceptic. It’d be excellent if the Germans, Irish, Czechs or Poles held up the constitution long enough for a referendum. I’d love to vote against that anti-British and vile document.
152.”Scotland is clearly very pro-EU judging by the relative strength of the combined Labour/SNP vote to the much smaller Tories/UKIP voting pool.”
That is one of life’s little misconceptions, and it does show how both the Libdems, and now the SNP have managed to portray themselves as more Eurosceptic in the constituencies where it matters. This is going to be a weakness for the SNP in the longer term, and especially if they get their referendum on Independence. You will tend to find that the SNP heartlands in the North East are more Eurosceptic, and that is how they portray themselves when it comes to EU matters involving the fishing and agricultural issues.
We are no more Europhile than other area’s of the UK, and UKIP’s main problem, is that its not seen as a UK wide party. We also have four party politics up here already, so not much room for another one if it comes along.
I thought, Plato, that we were talking about Nick Clegg’s love bombing of Labour voters on a Labour blog site.
I would be greatly surprised if the question of gay equality featured prominently in the local Lib Dem campaign in Eastbourne.
It is very kind of you to be worried about the success of Liberal Democrat campaigning, of course. I am sure we all appreciate it.
160 How many Lab-Tory marginals are UKIP going to hold balance of power in?
163, what success are you referring to?
158 Vote switching between Tory and UKIP in England is like vote switching in Scotland between Labour and SNP.
Tactical voting in Scotland was used to defeat sitting Tory MPs, likewise tactical voting should employed in England to defeat Europhile Labour/Lib Dem MPs.
I am an English Nationalist but voted Tory to in the Euro elections to defeat the sitting Labour MEP - it worked.
165 Beat me to it
157 - not really, this was set up prior to the 2003 elections by a grouping of dissident Tories or right wingers who are in favour of Independence. It has polled very badly. The Tories MSP’s who when with it have sunk without trace.
166
I am your your vote was pivotal.
163. Pat Ryan
I noticed the other day Liberal Democrat litrature about ’straight choices’ in the By-election.
167, I would be interested in the answer though.
Labour has been on 20% and maybe lower (I forget) yet the Lib Dems haven’t managed to pull ahead. If they can’t surpass Labour with EL Gordo as Generalissimo, when will they?
170, was that the one subheaded: “Thirty reasons to vote for Nick Clegg”?
168 Thanks Marcia.
162 ChristinaD
Thank you for your information about Scottish opinion, you are clearly more informed than I am. Surely the Tories are no longer a UK wide party as they only have one MP in Scotland? Perhaps UKIP could replace the Scottish Tories - at least they won’t have the baggage the Scottish Tories have.
Don’t you think the Scottish Tories need a complete break from the UK Tories who are seen as English by the Scottish electorate?
A separate Scottish Tory Party committed to Scottish Independence from both the UK and EU would take off. The time is now to split.
172.
NO.
It was norwich North - google straight choice and Norwich North and you will see what i mean.
So dear ‘ol Eccie thinks ‘Mad Max’ would make a good PM.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197449/Hitler-got-things-Mosley-super-job-leading-Britain-says-Formula-One-Chief-Mosley.html
Interesing to see that in the Mail, they thought the same about Max’s Dad.
166 - Francis - electoral history : the votes that are interchangable in Scotland since the 1940’s are between the SNP and Liberals and not between SNP and Labour. If you would care to look when the Liberals or now Lib Dems do well the SNP poll badly and the reverse when the SNP poll well the LD do badly. Since 1997 It is only in a few places such as Dundee we have been able to break down the Labour vote . It has taken us years to get to that position.
162 Which Party will become England’s fourth largest? UKIP, BNP or English Democrats?
Ah! ‘yer can’t beat the Mail, (get that Max) here’s someone they won’t be recommending for PM.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197457/MP-appointed-clean-Tory-expenses-claimed-63-000-mortgage-flip.html
Nice pics!
178, I fear the BNP. I think the English Democrat basic purpose of delivering an English Parliament is laudable though. Interesting to see the English Democrats came from nowhere (seemingly) to win Doncaster’s mayoralty.
I think they have a policy of reunifying Yorkshire as well.
Mandelson - nasty little man.
Palin - nasty little woman.
See where I’m going with this?
171 Me too, although Clegg is rather sanctimonious for my liking - I really did expect them to be doing a lot lot better.
Gordon has been on the ropes so often/exposed by economic collapse [and Vince has lots of media brownie point in the bag] and yet LDs just aren’t cutting through.
What do they need FFS?
I voted for Paddy in the past and was keen for him to join up with Tony] as I felt I knew what they stood for and liked the cut of his jib - I have no clarity now and Clegg’s bit on LList is beyond me in both tone and place.
166.”158 Vote switching between Tory and UKIP in England is like vote switching in Scotland between Labour and SNP.”
Francis, vote switching goes on between all parties in Scotland. That is why its going to be so hard to call the next GE up here. There are going to be some real surprise holds, losses and gains for all the parties for that very reason.
I always remember an SNP poster telling the story of a telephone canvassing session where the Libdems ended up winning the seat. He reckoned he found plenty voters who supported one party, but intended to vote for another to stop yet another party getting in.
But he could barely find a Libdem supporter at all. So go figure that one out. I think that is a Scottish trait.
“Tactical voting in Scotland was used to defeat sitting Tory MPs, likewise tactical voting should employed in England to defeat Europhile Labour/Lib Dem MPs.”
And that didn’t happen elsewhere in the UK? The next GE will be dominated by the economy and all the issues surrounding it, but not Europe.
177 I always thought the SNP were a Liberal Party combined with Scottish Nationalism, however as Scottish Labour have been so committed to devolution I though the SNP must be a form Lib-Lab nationalist mix.
Once the UK splits up, I am more likely to vote Liberal than Tory. I am sure you realise I am an English Nationalist with a bit Liberal tint, some English Nationalist colleagues have said my views are like those of the SNP and called ma an English SNP-er. The SNP are a party I take a lot of interest in, I just want English Nationalist Parties to emulate them.
178 Fourth largest party? Labour. It seems to be Prescott’s ambition:
http://www.gofourth.co.uk/
179
Yorkshire, Lancashire and Durham all need re-uniting. Partitioning these ancient and proud counties into North, South, East, West etc was an Act of Treason by Heath and implemented by the pathetic anglophobic Wilson government.
Readers who haven’t come across the Witangemot Club may be interested in this link - bloggers in favour of an English Parliament.
http://www.toque.co.uk/witan/
174.Francis, I am very happy with the Scottish Conservative party right now, best shape we have been in years. And that is partly because we are once again more connected to the main party, sharing advice and expertise in a way I have not seen for years. Yes, we only have one MP right now, but we needed to rebuild the party from the grass roots up, and that is now happening, but it takes time and effort. And that means the recovery takes longer.
We are no different in that respect to other area’s like the North of England where the party also failed to recover for too long.
But there are SNP ‘Tarten Tories’, I think that Stuart Dickson is one of them. And then there are Tories like Easterross and Fitaloon who would be quite relaxed about independence. I am neither.
185, Yorkshire may be a very interesting place electorally. There have been large job cuts due to Bradford and Bingley and HBOS going under, Labour are very unpopular but lots of people (round my neck of the woods anyway) are almost pathologically Labour voters.
Be fun seeing if the English Democrat triumph in Doncaster is a forerunner of greater electoral presence or merely a one-off on the back of an anti-politics Zeitgeist.
183 - although Labour are now a pro-devolution party, elements of theo the party in Scotland were very hostile to Home Rule. In the summer of 1974 the party Executive in Scotland voted against Home Rule only for that to be overturned by a panicky Labour Party in London as there was to be another General Election that year and that would have played into the SNP hands. Labour only really became interested other than a vague promise to Home Rule after the Hamilton by election in November 1967. The loss of a safe seat concentrated their minds and that event set us on the path to devolution. That also shook up the SNP as it had to move quickly from a pressure group movement to a proper political party.
100. “Jeffrey Donaldson (Democratic Unionist MP) repays £555 claimed for pay-to-view films in hotel”. Since the public now think most MPs are to$$ers, this expenditure could be put down to the MP training budget?
186 How long do you it will be before you something like 25 seats or more in Scotland? One thing that is going your way in Scotland is the Borders Region - last time I was up there in 2007 I saw Blue Tory flags everywhere. Is the surge in Scottish Tory support due to a backlash against Labour or a real support for the union or.
Do you think someone like Stuart Dickson could ever cross to the Tories?
OT I really do find this risible,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197385/Sarah-Browns-tears-Gary-McKinnon.html?ITO=1490
I think Gary McKinnon was a daft nerd, but his treatment by HMG/judiciary has been shameful.
And the PM’s prop [sorry wife] has now popped up to cry about it in the Mail.
Good grief.
159.
” not exactly very likely unless Cameron is fingered as…suspect.”
It looks more likley that GideO will be heavily-fingered long before that might happen. Chammy has already lined up a range of successors, including Sarah Palin and Max Mosely.
190, it’s sad she’s crying about the unequal and unjustifiable extradition rules we have with the US but she’s in a perfect position to complain to the PM about it.
190. Crocadile Tears!
Just shows how Brown was complicit in the smear campaign IMO - The daily mail seems to be the favourite host paper for stories about Sarah Brown! We have had Sarah doing Twitter, Sarah and the charity events, Sarah and the summit, Sarah and the dress etc!
188. The English Democrats are a lot newer than the BNP. The EDP positively welcomes members from ethnic minorities, EU citizens, commonwealth citizens. I am currently not a member of the EDP after a nationalist split last year over the debate about whether the party should seek full English Independence or just aim for the creation of a devolved English Parliament.
The devolution - v - Independence battle cost the party lots of support in last year’s London Mayor and English Council Elections.
There was also a media smear campaign against the EDP when false allegations of collusion with the BNP were made. Legal action has been taken against those papers.
193 - Don’t forget Sarah does Glastonbury (which Naomi Campbell)!
184.
http://www.gofourth.co.uk/
On that site is the headline: “The slipping face of the Tory mask” set against this magnificent photo.
http://img.youtube.com/vi/PdFvYXLj0oc/2.jpg
The truth will out!
What a cunning stunt!
195 (correction) which -> with
194 I got the impression that the EDP was the BNP without the racism - i.e. for an English Parliament, equal footing etc.
What I find depressing is the notion that one cannot vote for English nationalism without being a racist bigot, no one accuses PC or SNP of this.
192.
“the unequal and unjustifiable extradition rules we have with the US ”
One day (hopes) we may have good cause to ask the US Marshalls to post Bliar back from his lecture tour.
195 Labour is going to have trouble at the GE if the only Brown they can send out on the campaign trail is Sarah.
Gordon’s pre-school human shield may prove to be a bit awkward on his battle bus…
“Are we there yet?”
198 That’s what the unionist media wants you to believe - that EDP is just another wing of the BNP.
The BNP are a British unionist party who are racist.
The EDP oppose mass immigration but that does not turn them into racists or xenophobes.
Ironically some Scottish and Irish voters living in England have been known to vote EDP!
194 - the SNP had a similar split in 1942 where these for Independence defeated those who favoured Home Rule option. This resulted in the Home Rulers setting up the Scottish Covenant. The failure of the National Petition in the early 50’s resulted in the two factions re-uniting in the late 50’s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Covenant
139/144.
I don’t think Waterson will lose his seat solely because of his homophobic voting.
(although it would be in David Cameron interests if he did)
My point is simply that 0.44/1 does not represent value, and a decent Lib Dem campaign stand a chance in that seat.
Afternoon all.
Dear me, you would have thought that the Telegraph (which has a good personal finance section) would have been able to tell the difference between the purpose for which a loan is required, and the security put up for the loan. The Alan Duncan article (link at
shows that they don’t understand this most basic of concepts. (The same is true of the complaint against Osborne).
I’d say the Telegraph article verged on the libellous, although if you read it carefully is actually clear that it is in fact a non-story, so it won’t go to court.
This is a good example of the point I was making yesterday in responses to tim’s article. The Telegraph has thrown so much random mud around, against MPs of all parties, that they have actually made it impossible to act against the real villains.
202 There are two competing English Nationalist movements, which FEP splitting away from EDP in 2008.
EDP (English Democrats Party) who support the creation of an English Parliament with the same powers as the Scottish Parliament. No commitment to union is made
FEP (Free England Party) who seek an Independent England via the dissolution of the UK by refereda.
Sadly there is an England First Party (FEP) a BNP splinter group created by MI5 to penetrate and destroy both English nationalist groupings and prevent English Home Rule.
Time will tell whether they
204 - Oops, my text got transformed into a smiley. ‘Link at post 8′
205 Sorry EFP is England First Party!
204 - The charge against Osborne is specifically that he took out a loan larger than he paid for his house, but claimed from the taxpayer interest on the full amount of the loan as housing costs.
I have no idea whether its true but it is a very specific charge that would not be within the rules.
I agree with you on the Telgraph overplaying his hand and to me the worst case of that was the Tory MP for Huntingdon.
O/T. Today’s Mail website has a picture of Tony Blair (reported to have a black eye) directly above the headline: “Blind man sees wife for first time after having a TOOTH implanted into his eye ” Could explain how he put up with Cherie for so long but not why the vampire missed his neck. Has all the recent Berlusconi totty publicity brought on a Caplin moment over supressed memories?
189.Francis, just had a post replying to your query disappear into the ether. I meandered onto the state of the Holyrood Parliament and the fact that despite celebrating its first big anniversary, its yet to come of age.
Stuart won’t go Tory, but IIRC, he said that he could see himself in a Conservative leaning party post Independence.
The biggest question in Scotland right now, has the Labour stranglehold on our politics been broken temporarily or permanently?
I tend to think the latter. That is why its such an interesting period in Scottish politics.
Re Sarah Palin.
This story was briefly mentioned during the election and seemed to be worth following up at the time.
Rumors abound on the intertubes that the Palin house was built with funds and or kickbacks from Federal Funds for the Wasilla sports complex. Palin’s claim to fame as Wasilla Mayor was getting the funds for the complex. Rumors say that it seems that supplies and contractors from the sports complex also helped build the over 3000 square foot Palin home.
205 Now you are definitely kidding
“Sadly there is an England First Party (FEP) a BNP splinter group created by MI5 to penetrate and destroy both English nationalist groupings and prevent English Home Rule .
Morus
Thanks you for the article.
As I have clearly been asleep whilst Lord Mandelson has been achieving such great things, would you - or some other kind soul - itemise briefly what Mandelson has done as a MINISTER…
(ignoring spin, dissing Osborne etc..)..
I cannot recall anything notable.
He’s just an effective machine politician in my view: not a leader, not a front man, not a long term strategist, just a great thinker of ways to help his opponents tangle themselves in knots.
But maybe I have forgotten..
204.
I fear, Richard, that you may have confused what the MP says the loan was for with what the MP showed (with documentary evidence) the loan was wholly and neccessarily for at the time. If this latter WAS present then the MPs can probably feel OK because the ‘rules’ were simple devices for ensuruing a flow of taxpayers’ money to the MP’s pockets and there was never any hint of an assessment, for example, of any appropriatemness, of the property to be notionally occupied, in terms of the maximum size and standard deemed neccessary for the parliamentary purpose. Your MP could get the ACA cash as part-payment on a thousand-room palace or a platinum-plated caravan!
211 I think this illustrates your point more effectively
http://www.theplancollection.com/house-plans/square-feet-2500-3000
211.
If true, that confirms Palin as the perfect replacement for GideO!
215 If you remember at the time, the first Dude claimed he built the house himself, “with some help from some buddies”.
Or somesuch wank.
217.
You’re not, surely, suggesting Mandy was involved?
216 - Here you go.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/7/4/1282/35742
Seems the same materials were used to build the Sports Centre as Palins house.
Classy.
Does anybody know how many hits the gofourth website gets? Or a link where to find that information. It is being used as a source of copy for many things and it would be nice to know how much impact it really has on t’internet.
220. The reason why New Labour has not taken the hint to ‘Go Fourth and Multiply’ is that they haven’t yet mastered adding up - though Mr Darling is very good at taking away.
220 Alexa isn’t very accurate but an indicator
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/www.gofourth.co.uk
Sarah Palin: I think she’s a mother first and a scatty Alaskan politician second.
Peter Mandelson: I do respect the way he seems to keep his cool in interviewa and in public. If somebody self-righteously threw green gunge on me I expect I’d do something physical and maybe make a citizen’s arrest.
210. “Stuart won’t go Tory, but IIRC, he said that he could see himself in a Conservative leaning party post Independence.”
Ah, that explains a lot. I’ll look forward to the day Stuart and I are on opposite sides!
Plato, thanks for that. It appears that my child’s school newsletter gets more readers than gofourth. Perhaps people should stop using it as a source of informed comment.
O/T Lance Armstrong is off in the Tour de France, he surely can’t do it again, can he?
If Labour are really hoping that their Tory gay rights tactic will work, have a look at the Daily Mail readers comments on it.
As this group are usually considered to be Old Tory die-hards - they seem to be saying ’so what’ and no to identity politics ‘let’s all just get on together’.
If those who are supposed to be the most bigoted are saying ‘whatever’, perhaps Labour need to get into this century.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197146/Tory-Labour-loggerheads-gay-friendly-party.html?ITO=1490
213 - madasafish - I deliberately avoided writing that he had been a good Business Secretary in favour of ‘the perception is that he has been more able than his colleagues’.
To be honest, I’m not in a position to judge how good he’s been at that job, though I tried to answer a simiar question from TrevorsDen (at post 81) in my comment at 107.
226:
In the past he has had 100 percent team support. Maybe not now. On the other hand, ‘though older he’s still outrageously focussed and fit.
225 It gets less hits than my blog too.
My post today is about the best Tory political scandal I know - if you know better…
230
Plato, very good post on your blog, I was aware of the chequered career of Lord Boothby, 40K in 1960’s was a hell of a lot of money to get paid out of court, it would have bought a few houses then!
Did anyone post this earlier today.. Expenses and pay per view….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5737233/MPs-expenses-Jeffrey-Donaldson-repays-555-claimed-for-pay-to-view-films-in-hotel.html
231 Benny Hill did an excellent pee take on Boothby but I can’t find a YouTube of him.
I do think that he looks rather like Harry Enfield’s Cholmondley-Warner character though!
230 - You’ll be pleased to know that I agree with you on this scandal (indeed, you may not be surprised to learn that I’ve referred to it on numerous occasions on PB)
Macmillan had 6 Etonians in his cabinet, and sleeping with his wife was less of a barrier to promotion than being outside this charmed circle of chums.
No wonder F.Scott Fitzerald wrote.
We have no Eton to create the self-consciousness of a governing class.We have, instead, clean, flaccid and innocuous preparatory schools.”
Now of course standards have slipped so badly that the only shared gift amongst the Etonians in the Conservative party seems to be an inability to fill in an expenses claim correctly.
The most talented Etonian of his generation, may only have slept with dozens of married women in a TV Drama.Dominic West who played MvNulty in the Wire.
227. If Labour is seen to be obsessed with gay issues I don’t think that will go down well in many white working class areas or Muslim areas.
It’s not an issue of interest to most people and they certainly will not be impressed by those who obsess about it while ignoring more important things.
The writer and broadcaster Sir Ludovic Kennedy and Lord Boothby’s cousin, once called him to his face, “a shit of the highest order”;
Boothby’s response was to rub his hands, give a deep chuckle and say “Well a bit. Not entirely.” Class act …
Plato, you may have already seen this article on Boothby, here it is anyway.
http://www.nickelinthemachine.com/2009/02/no1-eaton-square-lord-boothby-and-ronnie-kray.html
235 Missed that he was on TIYL - an amazing personal history gets even more so!
235 There is a lot of talk about Toffs in the Tory Party. Surely Fetesians (Fettes College) and Lorettonians (Loretto) are also Toffs but in New Labour, after all these schools are the Scottish equivalents of Eton and Harrow.
Given that all international positions are negotiations between different countries (we paid so much, we gave way on that job, it’s our turn), it would require a Cameron government to support Mandelson or Brown for the oft touted international job. Given that Mandelson is a Europhile and a smearing piece of nastiness and that Brown is a nasty smug fat economic illiterate, I think it’s fairly safe to assume neither will get any British support for a senior international job. Neither has any real credibility without British support. I can see Blair being given support - say UN Sec-Gen if Ban Ki-Moon decides he doesnt want a second term. Blair also has presence on the international stage, which neither Mandelson or Brown have.
237 ctd Perhaps I should Merchistonians (Merchiston Castle School) to the Toff list too.
149. Re “tim” being a farmer of any description, he was exposed as a liar on this some months ago.
Liars tend to be prolific, so it’s a reasonable bet that he lies about almost everything else too. It’s so Labour of him.
193 - i’m confused. Didn’t Gordon not want to use his family as political props?
241
Guido makes me laugh, More evidence of the curse of Jonah..sort of….
ttp://order-order.com/2009/07/04/positive-story-about-gordon-brown/
239 I just find it really sad that the tactic used by HMG of 12 years, is to use an opponent’s education against them.
Not only were these kids voteless, but what is wrong in wanting the very best for one’s offspring - and proving their worth at the ballot box ??!!
Gordon’s desire to smear anything other than state decreed eduction says a lot.
Didnt Harriet Harman, Blair, and Diane Abbott avoid sending their children to Comprehensives , there must be others amongs the comradres who say one thing and do another?
John Rentoul - The end of Gordon Brown:
http://johnrentoul.independentminds.livejournal.com/109955.html
243. Plato
What i find truely baffling is HH and Ed Balls both who went to fee paying schools making such an issue of it! Very odd indeed!
244 - Harriet Harmon got hers into the local Grammar School, Diane Abbott sent her son to private school and Tony Blair sent his to a state selected school, however it was across town in another catchment area entirely, so did then, what Balls is attempting to make illegal now.
Can’t blame any parent for wanting the best education for their child, but at least be honest about it. For a Labour MP that means, keeping your mouth shut about the benefits of ‘state school’, accept that they are hypocritical, gracefully and vote in the House accordingly.
Full marks to Farmer tim the AgriBot for a successful diversion. One mention of Eton and the thread moves off course into the ‘foaming mouth’ territory of ‘Toffs’ v. Comprehensive Schools. It works everytime.
On topic - the twice shamed and verminous Mandelson is the least deserving candidate for ‘President of Europe’. What’s he done, other than manipulate and drip poison into the political system of this country for his own nefarious means?
245. C.
I have nothing but contempt for Gordon Brown. He is a first class idiot, with no morals/scrupels or good judgement.
Never mind who gave Tony Blair a Black Eye, who would not want to give Gordon Brown Two Black Eyes! Not that i would try to do that as you would probably get shot! Mind you they might miss and hit Gordon which would be funny if he got peppered on his arse!
248 - You think Mandy is bad…. Who was described thus, by a Judge no less?
“She is a highly sexed woman who has ceased to be satisfied with normal sexual activities and has started to indulge in disgusting sexual activities to gratify a debased sexual appetite. A completely promiscuous woman whose sexual appetite could only be satisfied by a number of men, whose promiscuity had extended to perversion and whose attitude to the sanctity of marriage was what moderns would call enlightened, but which in plain language was wholly immoral.”
Hint, she does not comment on PBC.
256. Margret Wingham! dont know who she is though!
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/special-reports/The%20Dirty%20Duchess/2008/08/16/a-completely-promiscuous-woman-said-lord-wheatley-86908-20699099/
Martin D, you may know her better as Margret, Duchess of Argyll. she of headless polaroid fame
258. Ancient history and all that! Thats her business not mine!
Someone should tell Andrew Lansley to shut up. He shouldn’t be allowed within 100m of a microphone:
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/4475032.North_South_split_on_health_pay_by_Tories/
Tell It To The Marines
Said it before and will say it again more than once in future: Sarah Palin is the gift that just keeps on giving . . . to the Democrats.
Since it’s the Fourth of July and the weekend after Gov. Palin detonated her resignation bombshell, am thinking of caging a few hot dogs at today’s King County Republican Party picnic, just to get a flavor of what GOPers are saying about their 2008 VP nominee . . . plus their thoughts on their fair-haired boy the SC Love Gov.
Personally speaking, most shocking thing about Sarah Palin’s resignation statement, was her gross falsification of history (no shock there) and monumental distrespect of the United States Marine Corps.
“Huh?” I can hear PBers muttering into their lukewarm gruel. What’s this about Gov. Palin’s disrespecting the USMC?
Note that she gave the following quotation in defense of her quixotic action: “We are not retreating. We are advancing in another direction.” Which she attributed to US Army Gen. Douglas Macarthur, always a great hero to rightwing nutbags.
Problem is, Dugout Doug never said it. Instead, it was spoken by USMC Gen. Smith with respect to the Marine’s position during the Chosin Reservoir campaign of Nov-Dec 1950 during the Korean War. When the Marines were in the process of extracating themselves against odd of 10-1 from the mindboggling egoism and incompetence of Gen. Macarthur.
My father was a Marine at the “Frozen Chosen” and he was also a Republican from a staunchly GOP family.
After the battle, when President Harry Truman fired Macarthur for insubordination, my grandfather told my dad the news, cursing the President for demoting America’s preeminent patriot, and asked his opinion, as a fighting Marine recently returned from the field of battle.
“Fired him” my father replied, “he should have SHOT the sonofabitch!”
That was my Dad’s opinion of Macarthur (once a childhood hero) then and forever more. And it is still and will always be received wisdom in the USMC.
I confirmed this recently in a conversation with a jarhead who’d served in Iraq. He affirmed that every Marine was taught the history of the Chosen Resevoir campaign, and also that Douglas Macarthur was a bum.
Please note that my dad was also present for Gen. Macarthur’s greatest triumph, the Inchon landing. And gave him full marks for this one. Though noting that this triumph was primarily the result of the high professionalism of the US Navy & Marines when it came to amphibeous assault, which stemmed from recent WWII experience.
However, this did NOT absolve Macarthur in eyes of my father or USMC for him attempted manslaughter of the 1st Marine Division.
Of course Sarah Palin is ignoratant of this history. Indeed, she’s made a fetish out of her ignorance. And most Americans are as clueless as she is regarding the history I’ve just cited.
Yet the voters are becoming increasingly clued in to the fact that there’s something not quite right with Sarah Palin, or the Republican Party.
Sarah Palin has many good qualities. And helping to keep the Republican Party down for the next decade or so, appears to be one of them.
The whole idea of a political talent irritates me. It means the ability to wheedle, lie, dissemble to get elected. Running a profitable business with happy workers, creating good products that people want and need, running a happy school, etc. These are good things. What has Mandelson ever run properly that is of any use to anyone?
Re: it is interesting that the chief defender of Sarah Palin among the ranks of B-List Republicans is William Kristol the Younger (son of the father of American neo-con-ism) who was chief of staff to none other than Dan Quayle.
Having helped destroy one national politico - also the toast of GOP wackos - while furthering his own career, is Kristol now working on #2?
Peter Mandelson, Baron of Europe? More like Peter Mandelson Barren.
Despite my very old-fashioned conservative ethos, I quite understand Sarah Brown going along to the Gay Power Parade. What that poor woman must suffer, chewed fingernails, nose picking and eating, et al does not bear thinking.
113. John R, what a sad little cretin, crawl back under your rock.
260, Lansley should be axed. The last gaffe was lucky not to be a more serious blow, due to Brown’s rampant inadequacy.
157. Mark, I have never even heard of them, must be miniscule, certainly not seen anything in the Scottish media on them ever.
265 - Lansley is the only Shadow Cabinet Minister to have been given a guaranteed portfolio by Cameron.
Dave has guaranteed that he will run the NHS.
God help us all.
190. Christina, as long as the Tories remain a London based party they will never regain their support in Scotland.
194. Francis, The Tories will be lucky to ever see double figures in Scotland again never mind 25, a couple of seats in the borders is about their lot.
261 - Reports are growing that Sarah Palins career will end in Jail.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1909386/is_a_federal_indictment_the_reason.html
Which is a shame, as she could have done more damage to the religious right.
269.Malcolmg, keep dismissing the only party that has not been in power North or South of the Border for the last few years.
271. Christina, only a fervent supporter could imagine that they will do well in Scotland, if you look at it objectively the most they are likely to get at the next election are 6 seats. I have not seen anything to suggest that they will make significant progress at Holyrood either. I firmly believe that they will not progress significantly till they get themselves back to being the Scottish Conservative Party, tied as they are to London they have little chance.
270 lol, imagine the horror of being a guard looking after that repulsive whiney screech owl.
How on earth the republicans felt it was appropriate to present that as a vice-presidential candidate….
lol, they deserved to lose. Its just a shame we get lumbered with Mr talk you to sleep, tax and spend Obama
More to the point, who were the “headless men”?
267
link?
256,257
The woman in question wasI believe the Duchess of Argyll.Toffs always have most fun!
Any opinion polls surfacing this evening?
Is it any wonder that Americans have such an oldy-worldy tea and crumpets impression of Britain, when the trips of their leading commentators and columnists are like this?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/london-diary-gordon-brown_b_224549.html
It’s like something straight out of the 1950s. The only thing missing was her waxing lyrical about long shadows on cricket grounds and warm beer.
260. wibbler. Actually it would be a sensible move. It would help to increase the number of nurses in areas with a high cost of living. There is a study that showed that differences in hospital performance are positively correlated with the private sector premium (the difference between public and private sector wages). This offends the unions as it attacks national wage settlements, but would be a sensible way of evening out disparities in healthcare.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=488922
I seem to remember another paper that looked not at target performance, but at mortality from a common life threatening condition and again this increased in areas where the private sector premium is high.
275 - http://conservativehome.blogs.com/torydiary/2008/01/andrew-lansley.html
I did make a mistake though.
It appears there are two men who have been given job promises.
David Cameron, interviewed on Today, stated that Andrew Lansley would be Health Secretary if he becomes Prime Minister at the next General Election.
The Tory leader was interviewed 24 hours after he promised to make the Conservatives the party of the NHS. Asked if the wider Conservative Party was as committed to the NHS as he was, David Cameron replied that Mr Lansley was respected throughout the NHS, partly because he had held the portfolio for a number of years and that he would be Health Secretary in his first Cabinet.
As far as ConservativeHome is aware Mr Lansley joins George Osborne as the only other frontbencher who has been given a public guarantee of becoming the Cabinet minister for the job they currently hold.
And the bells rang out across the country.
277 ken
You are making the mistake of looking at it through the economics.
Artificial interference in labour markets is of course generally inefficient. Although it must be noted that some things, like the minimum wage, certainly haven’t been the disasters the Conservatives were warning of at the time.
The point isn’t the economics. It’s the politics. It’s a stupid thing to say, especially without it being a definite policy, because it will make wavering northern voters less likely to vote Conservative.
278 Ken I second that. I attended a talk by a senior NHS manager who cited research that stated that the end of national pay bargaining would go a long way to improving recruitment across the NHS. He also stated that in certain areas of the country there were more applicants than posts for certain jobs whilst there were critical shortgages in other areas leading to the costly use of agency staff.
It’s what happens in the private sector in any case. The unipns etc don’t like it because it dilutes there power.
Sorry spelling!
271. That’s the worry for the Scottish Tories - 2010 is going to be as good as it gets. A Conservative front bench with no Scottish MPs is going to get noticed.
276. Why is it that the Australians, New Zealanders, many of the Caribbean countries, to some extent even the Canadians, seem to understand us so well, while the Americans don’t seem to have a clue, in spite of the common language? I’m struggling to think of any American depiction of life in the UK or Ireland that has ‘felt right’ - even when it’s written by someone who has lived here.
Maybe it’s just an American problem with understanding any foreign country - everything seems to be viewed through an idiosyncratically American lens.
However, one good point made in that article is about Gordon Brown’s disability, and the fact that it would be a much bigger deal if he was an American politician.
284. ” A Conservative front bench with no Scottish MPs is going to get noticed.”
Yes indeed. All the English folk who complain about the Scottish Labour mafia currently in charge are going to say “Thank Fook for that!”
280
Tim
Thanks
281. wibbler. I didnt say it wasnt a stupid political thing to say. Ditto cuts vs NHS. Lansley is a PR disaster. However, from a policy viewpoint it is a sound policy and one that New Labour should have espoused. I think it suggests that he will be an excellent minister - if he can avoid the gaffes.
Minimum wage can become a disaster but fortunately it was set at a level that meant it didnt have too many deleterious effects. The last analysis I heard on this suggested that we were close to the maximum permissible level in several areas with a lot of minimum wage workers. This was over a year ago and I dont know how the recession / imported inflation has impacted the situation.
271 - sounds like BS to me, for one thing, is this credible source?
Also, why would sitting Gov facing indictment resign until they’d either cut a deal with prosecutors, or totally run out of rope? Remember Blago?
286. A Scottish mafia running the UK - with, what, four cabinet ministers out of twenty-odd? I struggle to imagine the apoplexy the right-wing London press could work themselves up into if England really was being run by Scots!
290 - I think he was probably referring to the cabinet under Tony Blair, that was packed full of Scots / educated in Scotland.
291. And the credibility of that point disappeared with the last three words. I try to believe three impossible things before breakfast, but even I can’t imagine Tony Blair is a Scotsman.
273Malcolmg - Wrong. I don’t think its a coincidence that the party is now recovering in Scotland at the grassroots level, and with an expectation of improving our tally of MP’s while the UK party is doing so well in the polls too.
I don’t make outlandish claims about our chances, but others are too quick to dismiss us entirely. And with four party politics up here, you cannot afford to that.
286.ScottP,
At least we cannot be accused of knifing two Scottish leaders in a row. Wonder if that fact will come back to bite the Libdems up here?
292 - Eh, but Blair was born and educated in Scotland was he not? Imagining he isn’t, sounds very like Nick Griffin and his imagination regarding those dark coloured people that aren’t English / British.
Personally, I don’t care where people are born / educated, just pointing out what other poster might have meant.
285. Which of Brown’s disabilities are you referring to?
296 - I just assumed it was his mental retardation (as the American’s would fairly distastefully, but medically correctly, put it).
Yet another one bites the dust,
Ex-chief whip Hilary Armstrong, 65, also said she was standing down from her North-West Durham
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8134398.stm
282 - Most research on staff turnover shows bigger differences within regions than between them suggesting far more than issues of pay are at work.
In fact London always has a much lower “stability” rate than other regions in the South East despite higher pay in the capital through the London weighting.
http://www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/workforce/nhs-turnover/medical-staff-turnover-2005-2006
And staff turnover, which impacts on expense and health outcomes has been falling for a decade.
http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2006/10/09/37546/nhs-staff-turnover-falls-to-lowest-ever-level.html
As with other areas, such as Education and Social Services, Lansley confuses a London problem with a national one.
Absolutely priceless story from Guido - Positive Story About Gordon Brown
Is my memory playing tricks on me, but didn’t Mike Smithson have some odd bets a while back, and isn’t one of them on Raith Rovers?
BBC - Brown facing fresh 10p tax fight
“Prime Minister Gordon Brown could face a fresh backbench revolt over his 2007 decision to scrap the 10p bottom rate of income tax.
A group of Labour MPs - led by Frank Field and Greg Pope - are threatening to block this year’s entire Budget in a vote in the Commons on Tuesday.
They say their amendment is also being supported by Tory leader David Cameron and the Liberal Democrats.”
299 - If you really think that the London Weighting makes up for the difference in the costs of living you are in a dream world, it does not cover the difference in the costs of living.
“I read an article that refered to his almost “shintoist” worship of his Grandfather and the Labour party. I can’t see him serving the enemy.”
I don’t believe this story for a single nano second. I think this line was put out by Mandelson’s mates in the media as a means of trying to spin him with Labour people who never really saw him as proper Labour. In my view he is 100% pure EUSSR.
If/when Lisbon gets ratified and we get herded into their anti-democratic monster state I think he’ll want his reward to be EUSSR foreign minister. If so then it’ll be a bummer for Millibanana as I think he had his mind set on that as well.
299 - But how does that contradicts what Lansley said? He said,
“In these times of increasing financial pressure, we need to ensure that we move to a situation where pay is instead defined by what is necessary to recruit, retain and motivate the staff, and also what is affordable for local healthcare providers.”
I take that as, the Tories will try to allow NHS trusts some flexibility in what they decide to pay, rather than the current national “one size fits all” approach (yes I know it isn’t quite like that, as there often regional differences programmed in, but the system is let say often set in stone according to certain rules).
Now the article is spun as oh, all the northerners will get paid far well than the rich southerners, but he never said anything of the sort.
304 (correction)
northerners will get paid far well
->
northerners will get paid far worse
Lots of comments about Sarah Palin I see, most of them strongly anti. I simply don’t understand why so many people on both sides of the pond feel so strongly about her.
It reminds me of the many people, here and elsewhere, who were so strongly anti-Hilary Clinton without ever being able to explain why.
I know the wonderful Mr Obama never changes his policies for political convenience (i.e. lies) or would ever do anything to justify the slightest criticism but we can’t hold mere mortals, especially lowly women, to such divine standards surely?
304 - Actually I agree with you.
I think Lansleys comments have been taken out of context to present a regional story, which staff retention patently is not.
Certainly not one primarily dependent on pay.
300
I love the way Guido posted it too.. I knew it had to be toooooo…. good to be true.
!The Colonials Are Still Revolting!
@@@@!!!!!!>>>>>> HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY <<<<<<!!!!!!@@@@
Sarah Palin to campaign around America after surprise resignation as Alaska governor
Alaska’s Governor Sarah Palin is expected to travel widely, campaigning for Republican candidates after startling America by suddenly quitting her job.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/5743337/Sarah-Palin-to-campaign-around-America-after-surprise-resignation-as-Alaska-governor.html
Have to say, not sure where the Telegraph have got this particular perspective from, scanning the article I couldn’t see any new quotes / info.
301 - maybe this is hypothetical, but if by some chance the rebels plus tories and LDs managed to defeat the budget: as this is a Supply bill, would that not pretty much automatically bring about a vote of confidence motion in the government, which they would presumably win by the skin of their teeth?
278: seems a harmlessly pleasant piece to me, though possibly the sentence “Even Brown’s harshest critics acknowledge his moral seriousness and intellectual prowess” suggests she has yet to meet seanT at one of Weidenfeld’s literary dinners…
311. Tim B, would they though?
There are alot of dispossed MPs on the backbenches! This swine Flu which has been seen in London of late could see many poorly Labour MPs who dont turn upto vote for fear of spreading a nasty illness!
312 NPMP, I thought you didn’t do personal attacks?
311: It’s pretty hypothetical IMO - Frank has done his lone wolf thing so determinedly that he’s accustomed to it (the other day there was precisely one vote against the parliamentary standards bill second reading, with two tellers: Frank and two mates). I’m not sure that tax cuts of any kind are the order of the day. But it’s of course possible to amend the budget without defeating it, so the scenario you envsiage would only arise if it was voted down in toto.
314: er, are you accusing me of attacking Gordon, seanT or Weidenfeld?
301 - Is it normal for the Finance Bill to not be passed until July? On what basis have changes made since April been implemented?
Nick
Might I ask you again why you want to put off ID cards for at least a year, given your 100% support for them?
Re Raith Rovers bet.
in 2007 Hills had a market on which of a list of possible events would happen first in the GB premiership. One at 10/1 was Labour losing a by election. Another was Raith getting promotion.
As the months went by the only event on the list that could trump the by election outcome was Raith Rovers - and when they got to the plays offs all seemed doomed.
Thankfully - sorry RR fans - they didn’t do it and I picked up a tasty four figure some when Labour lost C and N.
316 Well, it looked like a mild stab at SeanT. But I wouldn’t worry - it’s not as if he’s posting here anymore.
315 - the article does say “block the entire budget” - the language is somewhat imprecise but ‘in toto’ and ‘entire budget’ are not dissimilar.
316 - Have you noticed that SeanT’s latest flounce occurred in the same week as Sarah Palins
Have the Narcissists Union coordinated this?
319
Mike
Hope you are having a fabulous holiday.
315. NPMP - You dont fancy Newcastle North or North-West Durham Nick? A safe seat! Well as safe as you can get these days IMO!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8134398.stm
313 - a nasty illness - 5 more years of Labour ..
As it’s 4th of July am wearing my tasteful two tone gray / charcoal sparkly spandex shorts today, with ‘Champion’ up the leg seams..It’s very tasteful for the blind. BBQ of burgers, chicken and hot dogs to come later.
- what’s the fashion weather in ‘Uddersfield today?
Looks like Piggy Flu has now spread to Hogwarts,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/harry-potter/5743222/Harry-Potter-actor-recovering-from-swine-flu.html
306. “I simply don’t understand why so many people on both sides of the pond feel so strongly about her.”
Neo-marxists and guardianistas have an insane hatred for white, female, Christian, Conservatives.
If I was on her crew I’d suggest she didn’t try to appease the media at all but played up those aspects of herself as much as possible. In the short term this would increase the intensity of the media attacks to horrific levels and it would be very hard to take but eventually the unbalanced nature of the hatred would begin to shine through and backfire to her benefit.
325. Tim B
The black shorts, socks and T-shirt! It is raining on and off! Some of the woman are still leaving little to the imagination!
312 Nick Palmer MP
It’s pleasant, and probably harmless, but it’s also a pretty rose-tinted view of Britain…
Also, I am getting very disturbed at the flagrant cosiness between journalists and senior politicians… it’s precisely this sort of establishment mentality which I was criticizing Huffington for, and which is largely responsible for the anti-politics movement:
…
327 - Kay Bailey Hutchison is a white, female, Christian Conservative who I don’t thin k inspires any hatred.
Indeed she would have made a good VP selection for McCain.
Unfortunately he chose a self deluded narcissist who wouldn’t get into the Balamory pub quiz team.
But she has done a great job in discrediting the religious right.
317: no, it’s unusual that the Budget’s so late. Businesses are working on the fairly safe assumption that it’ll pass.
318: principally because I think that although they’d be quite useful, they aren’t something we can’t live without, and we need to be prepared to drop some projects we’ve favoured up to now, in the light of the current situation. If we do continue the project I in any case made suggestions for changes last year, one of them dropping the obviously distant idea of making the cards compulsory. Other changes may, I hope, follow.
320/322: has seanT flounced out? I missed it. Why?
324: Labour doesn’t do chicken runs, Martin. We fight our corner - victory or death, and all that sort of thing.
329: I see what you mean, wibbler. I think it’s probably always been a bit like that, don’t you? If you read Michael Gove’s column you get the same sort of flavour - agreeable, clubbable, and personally familiar with eveeryone you’ve ever heard of.
331
Nick, a very professional answer if I might say so, however, perish the thought its because theres an election afoot and they are a vote loser.
332. NiCkPmP fancy putting yourself forward as deputy Speaker?
328 - am wearing Wallace and Gromit socks (Gromit is on the right one, Wallace on the leftone), a purple Black Sheep brewery “Monty Python’s Holy Ail” t-shirt and flip flops. Most people here have never heard of Wallace and Gromit (their loss, which I am trying to remedy with all speed).
But everyone I meet, on hearing my accent, says “I bet you lurve that Monny Pythahn”
Had steak and eggs for brunch today, and the waiter looked at us and said he wasn’t sure whether to wish us a Happy Fourth or not.
I informed him that it was indeed in order that he did, and that also we wanted the country back, and had started by trying to recapture Major League Soccer, by the crafty wheeze - worthy of Gordon Brown or the dark Lord at their finest - of bringing over David Beckham.
This line of jest rather failed at this point, because like most Americans he knew nothing about major League Soccer and had never heard of David Beckham. But all was not lost - we talked about how football was starting soon, and how America’s Team would do this season.
332. NP
Some times a tatical retreat is best! I have visions of the Knight in the monty python film who has his legs and arms cut off!
332- What’s wrong with Chicken Run? Except that Mrs Tweedy is a dead ringer for Peter Mandelson….
The telly people implacably hate what Palin represents and if she tries to make them like her then they’ll trip her up and rip her up. However if she does a Thatch, refuses to compromise with them at all, treats them as the enemy, and talks to voters over the heads of the media then I think she could do very well.
Perils of Palin
Reading various tea leaves, here are a few random thoughts:
1. Major motivating factor for resignation is $$$ because she can now make more in a month on national lecture circuit than her entire gubernatorial salary. Not to mention book & other consideration. No way she could maximize financial return this year AND next and still remain Governor. Keep in mind that Todd and Sarah Palin are NOT wealthy people, he’s earned and is still earning good money as a commerical fisherman & oil patch worker, but that’s hardly a great fortune. Certainty that she can earn millions for herself and her family as private citizen during next few years is decisive factor.
2. Plus being even part-time Gov of Alaska is a drag if you are a 2010 presidential hopeful. Cause its a LONG way from Wasilla, Anchorage & Juneau to Des Moines and Manchester NH; that’s the drawback to being next door to Russia. All indications are that her national base may be puzzled but not alienated by her decision. And her opinion leaders such as Kristol are picking up the ball and running with it.
3. Resignation does NOT mean that Palin has totally averted her gaze from Alaska. Note that she’s set things up so that her ally Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell - a lovely name! - is succeeding her, and another of her picks will be the new Lieutenant Governor. And removing herself from the griddle of gubernatorial duty in the midst of recession may actually improve her standing.
4. Provided of course that she is NOT indicted. Which I pooh-poohed in previous comment above. But which it would be imprudent to completely rule out. Because the kind of fiddle that is alleged - misappropriation of materials from Wasilla sports complex constructed under Mayor Palin’s watch for her own house and property - is NOT what you’d call an unthinkable concept. Note that’s exactly what ended the career of her fellow GOPer and alleged “mentor” Uncle Ted Stevens; he’s off the hook legally due to prosecutoral misconduct, but fact that lobbyist illegally subsidized his home improvement is beyond doubt. (Also exact same kind of scandal was what did in former Premier Glen Clark and the NDP in neighborhing British Columbia.)
5. Am having technical difficulties watching video of Gov. Palin’s statement. (Though I can see she looks like a million bucks in her Mountie-red tunic!) BUT have read transcript. It’s a mess.
The first part is clearly taken almost vertbatim from remarks she made recently in celebration of the 150th anniversary of Seward’s Purchase, at Wm H. Seward’s hometown in upper NY State. Because it’s an extended ode to Seward’s vision, perserverience in face of sccorn (”Seward’s Folly”), etc.
The whole thing is a mish-mash. Certainly gives impression of haste.
Keep yer peeper’s peepin’ on this one!
338 - Mr Jones, As someone who found the whole American year long Dem-Rep jamboree incredibly dull, followed by the equally tedious POTUS race, I fail to understand why the topic of Palin has been raised again or even mentioned here at all.
Last time there were obvious betting opportunities (it is a betting site after all) so I kept my mouth shut and let people just get on with it. Now the postings just seem pointless and gratuitously unpleasant.
So, on behalf of all those ‘lurkers’ that don’t give a flying fu<k about some foreign dame wholly unconnected with British Politics…..I hope they just give it a rest unless it adds something relevant to a discussion thread which hopefully is a long way off in the future.
End of rant.
Is Gordon Brown Michael Jackson?
Sequestered in an economic and political Neverland of his own devising, surrounded by a dwindling coterie of sycophants, with a very angry chimp called Balls, Wacko Gordo lives out the last months of this Government in a world of his own. He talks about his upcoming “General Election” tour of Britain as his big comeback, and about his exciting plans for a “zero per cent rise” in public spending. Staring at their shoes in embarrassment, Wacko’s Cabinet colleagues wonder whether he will even make it to the comeback trail.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/matthewd_ancona/5743846/Gordon-Brown-out-of-step-as-Labours-chance-slips-away.html
Surprised this likely chronic masturbator has not been mentioned!
68 films!
http://tinyurl.com/nhkgsm
339. I said all that with less than a quarter of the words you’ve used, Irish.
See post #51.
335. Tim B “But all was not lost - we talked about how football was starting soon, and how America’s Team would do this season.”
Do you mean the Cowboys?
340. I don’t bring her up. I reply to people that do.
339 - Please ignore 340 and keep posting.
Anyone who was bored by last year US Elections is tired of life.
On a betting note Mit Romney is 3/1 on Intrade and Paddy Power but 6/1 with Ladbrokes
341
341. Scott P
Like Wacko - Gordon has a reputation of a Fiddler! Though Gordon tends to Fiddle with the Voters wallets or purses rather than any other flaps!
GIN at 334 - Deputy Speaker: the thought crossed my mind and quickly exited stage left. Worth a punt on Parmjit Dhanda if there’s a market, I’d say.
Simon at 340: some of us are interested in politics, not just British politics, and what happens in the US usually does affect us one way or another. I agree that women politicos here tend to attract more than their fair share of derision, but that resignation statement really was odd.
Still curious about seanT - after all this time and a zillion feuds started and settled amicably, what can have upset him?
Martin Day - oh what joy - Jeffrey Donaldson is one of the most odious creaps in politics. I hope I’m allowed to say that. To find out that he is such a wally has made my night (I’m easily pleased)
350. John Wheatley
You can now legitametly call him a Wanker!
345 – Mr Jones, it was in no way a criticism of you, just my response to your comment @ 327.
344 - absolutely do - I’ve been a Dallas fan since first visiting the US as a 15 year old in the mid 60s..have even met Roger Staubach and Tom Landry.
Reading of the Declaration of Independence
1776 + 233
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106168024&ps=bb3
NOT as good as the old NPR reading (in which Red Barber was especially noteworthy). But reading the Declaration of Independence is an authentic 4th of July tradition, and thanks to NPR for keeping it going.
349. Parmjit had a good campaign actually. I’d quite like to see him as Deputy Speaker and see how he performs.
Re SeanT, the way it was described to me is that SeanT was posting while drunk and got into a row with Robert (Mikes son) and was warned by Morus, which lead to SeanT storming out the back door.
Just the usual e-drama.
Lets hope he’s back insulting lefties soon.
The DUP IMO are going to have a real problem at the next election as many of there MPs have been looked to be doing well out of Expenses etc! I dont think it will go down well with the Protestant work ethic! Dont think that Wanking on the public purse will get any tactical support from the Catholics either!
343. This should be signed werthercock. Odin is another using my PC.
352. My apologies for misunderstanding.
341
Whilst we await any new polls
Thoughts on Wacko Jacko songs that fit the great leader?
353. Oh Dear. Well, let’s hope their prospects this season are to be the most expensive team ever to be so ritually humiliated. Again.
359.
Don’t Blame It On The Sunshine. Don’t Blame It On The Moonlight. Don’t Blame It On The Good Times. Blame It On The Tories.
361 vvvvv good!
359 - “She’s out of my life”, dedicated to the chipmunk.
“Man in the mirror” dedicated to Mandelson
“The way you make me feel” dedicated to Balls
“Beat it” to Tony Blair
“remember the time” to Damian McBride
361. In the closit?
You Can’t Win (song)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can%27t_Win_(song)
BAD - His performance at PMQ’s week in and week out!
353 - yes, their record has not been good - no playoff wins since 1995 and a quarterback who is exhausted by the time December comes around.
But you can’t be a fair weather fan. And it’s a game, not a life-changing event.
- I assume you are not a fan of Da Boyz?
364
Fot the great leader it has to be “beat it” !!!!
“In the closit” is a song as well - the reletionship between Brown and Mandelson has led to speculation…..
Whether Brown is a font or back door man that is not the problem, it is his failure to be honest on it!
349 - I’m sure SeanT will return at some point - as I think PtP said:
“You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave”
349 - SeanT was peddling his race theories.
A Chapter of the Bell Curve and a bottle of Bells.
Not a nice cocktail.
367
I an a “Skins” fan
367. “you can’t be a fair weather fan.”
Tell me about it.
Go Eagles!!
Doh.
New thread
The Word Is Out
You’re Doin’ Wrong
Gonna Lock You Up
Before Too Long,
Your Lyin’ Eyes
Gonna Take You Right
So Listen Up
Don’t Make A Fight,
Your Talk Is Cheap
You’re Not A Man
You’re Throwin’ Stones
To Hide Your Hands
Because He’s Mad, He’s Mad,
Come On,
Because He’s Mad, He’s Mad,
You Know It,
Because He’s Mad, He’s Mad,
You Know It, You Know,
And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now,
Just To Tell Him Again,
Who’s Mad . . .
I have been interested of late to notice that another round of job losses has been working through the system in the last month. I do think the summer Quarter will see a further contraction in the economy (Q3). Maybe huge numbers of Job losses were overshadowed by MP Expenses and so took the focus away or there was a lull?
Some of the Q2 indications of a stabilisation in contraction IMO have been trumpted as a false dawn. I think this is going to cause further deteriotion as people are shocked by the lack of improvement and further savings are chased - Added to which Petrol Prices at the pumps continue to rise and surely the real levels of Mortgages to customers is further going to erode any possibility of recovery. I really do think that many folk live in a dream world on the economy!
It is like Brown saying that spending can just keep on rising! What a tool! The wealth creating side of the economy is wilting like a summer crop in a drought!
new thread………………………….
372 - the good news from my point of view is that right now the Skins make Dallas look good. Snyder is an even worse owner than Jerry. I’ve been to games at RFK, (when Riggins, Thieismann etc were there and it was a great team but Dallas still won), but not the new stadium.
373 - I lived near Philly for several years, so saw the Eagles at the Vet several times. They were for a time my second team. Whenever Dallas came I always wore ‘neutral’ clothing, because Philly fans really hate Dallas, and what made them worse was that Dallas fans didn’t hate Philly. They would throw all sorts of rocks and cans onto the field. Philly fans are notoriously contrary, and have even booed Santa Claus.
Now the Falcons are my ’second’ team, but they don’t play Big D this year…
340, StC. - thanks for rant.
Do agree, there’s inordinate degree of interest in obscure political machinations of remote island on fringe of great continent (the Sri Lanka of the North Atlantic) by many PBers. Personally persist in my interest with the (political) ins and outs of the Marquis de Mandy.
BUT do you REALLY think even the Dark Lord is in the same order of interest as Alaska’s answer to La Passionaria?
Heck, he doesn’t think that.
Speaking of strong language, which one of Gov. Palin’s said “hell, yes!” when asked if Mom should resign?
I saw a rather funny Hannan speech earlier today and popped back to get the URL…
And then just discovered that the blogger was sad to learn Sarah Palin was standing down.
Yes really, and not for satire purposes.
http://donalblaney.blogspot.com/
Anyways - the Hannan first two parts are worth a watch - loved the comparison with their Constitution and the EU one.
250. Didnt Harriet Harman, Blair, and Diane Abbott avoid sending their children to Comprehensives , there must be others amongs the comradres who say one thing and do another?
I have never understood why some people accuse such people of hypocrisy on this issue. People have to make the best of things within the system they have. If someone thinks that schools should be universally comprehensive, without selection by posh rich schools, then there is nothing wrong with them sending their children to the rich posh selective schools if they are the only ones which are any good. It’s a bit like saying that the Conservative Party should not be allowed to contest Scottish Parliament elections just because they opposed devolution in the first place.
378. Yep, the native Philly fans are nuts. The vet is I believe the only sports stadium ever built with a fully staffed courtroom in the basement complete with holding cells. Nice.
381
Ah but the Scottish Tories changed their devolution policy to support it.