How will the phone-tapping row affect things here?
July 10th, 2009
Is it a storm in a Westminster teacup?
As long as the News International phone-tap story continues to make the political weather, Andy Coulson - the Conservative’s Director of Communications - will remain under pressure. The question is how long it can run. Mike, in the previous thread, suggests that it won’t be long because the story’s essentially mined out for the moment. I’d agree with that but also put forward another reason: none of it resonates with the public.
The media talking about themselves is even more boring than political navel-gazing because it largely involves a lot of people no-one’s heard of. The phone-tap scandal does get round that to some extent because the targets were celebrities and politicians but as none of them are actually doing anything (either they already have, like Gordon Taylor, or they are ‘considering’ their options), that drains the momentum.
Whether it’s right or not - and it’s not - my guess would be that much of the public is inclined to believe that the media does this sort of thing a lot of the time. In a parallel to politics, evidence of misconduct is reported far more prominently than routine behaviour so when that misconduct does come to light, there’s no counterbalancing popular image.
Magazines and newspapers that make significant use of what could be considered intrusive photography or reporting sell in large numbers. If a member of the public had the events - in many cases, wholly mundane - of their private lives broadcast, they might feel different about the use of such reporting but public figures tend to be viewed differently. That some of them encourage and revel in that kind of reporting merely blurs the line further. Accessing almost unprotected voicemails is analogous to the use of such photography which the Moseley case proved was illegal but the public tends to accept anyway.
And therein lies the reason that it’s unlikely to have much political impact. A Tory employee few have heard of failing to stop the use of techniques many tolerate several years ago during his time as a tabloid editor is unlikely to run counter to widespread assumptions. And if assumptions are not challenged, intended voting patterns are unlikely to change.
Even so, there is a longer-term danger. Hostile journalists and politicians now have a ready-made line to drop into any report or discussion whenever Coulson comes back into the media spotlight. His behaviour - even if to some extent expected and tacitly accepted - fell below that which a party leader can afford.
To my mind, that means that he has to go, though not necessarily straight away. As the danger is neither acute nor immediate, that provides a much longer window of opportunity within which to act. It would be a risk for Cameron to keep him on into the election and a much greater risk still for him to stay there afterwards when the Tories are likely to take a hit in the polls and reporting become more hostile.
Cameron has said that everyone deserves a second chance and that‘s fair enough. As long as Peter Mandelson remains in the cabinet, Labour cannot effectively argue against that - and Mandelson will be there for the remainder of the parliament. However, CCHQ should be thinking very seriously about life after Coulson.
David Herdson
MessageSpace Advertising
first?
It will make it more difficult for Chris Huhne to get re-elected…he has come across as quite bonkers, on a topic where he professes lots of expertise.
It won’t
Just how good is Coulson? Anybody know?
Are we even having to outsource our “firsts” now?
Every day that Gordon Brown’s picture is not on the front page, is a good day for Labour. To that extent it’s a good news story for Labour - for now.
Maybe because I’m nearly two thousand miles away enjoying the best that Andalusia has to offer but I just don’t see what the excitement is over this story.
The beleaguered Labour PR machine thought it had something. Yates of the Yard thought differently. The issue is dead.
Four out of the last five threads on something that hasn’t even become a “-gate” yet? You’ve been cowed into submission by Gabble haven’t you?
re 4. Kevin Maguire told me a few months ago that Coulson had transformed the Tory operation. He’s good.
Chris Huhne’s increased media profile will already have solidified his re-election - the public does not care about the minutia of politics and are extremely unlikely to be swayed by it
‘Darling, Darling, I just heard that a guy that does PR for the Tories used to be editor of the News of the World and his journalists might have tapped celebrity phones for scoops’
‘That is outrageous, I am using all of my redundancy to campaign for Labour because the actual smearing of Damian McBride is a far lesser crime than this Tiory bloke and the massive insinuation from John Prescott and some others’
McBride had minimal polling effect and it involved the PMs right hand man.
This will change probably 0.01% of voting intention.
[2] - How many people in his constituency are really paying attention? It’s not as though Coulson is going to run against him in the GE..
10.Election leaflets with him standing trouserless next to a trouser press…
Nine soldiers in nine days looks terrible when you compare it to previously. It’s also the sort of thing to jog people’s memory on something they try to push to the back of their mind. Is the equipment they are being provided with (or not provided with) a contributory factor?
Anyway, who do we have as defence secretary in this difficult period?
Bumbling Bob Ainsworth. Sigh….
I wouldn’t put Ainsworth in charge of a mobile bath unit.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8144431.stm
Mother in Snatch vehicle victory
typical diversionary tactic from the courts, they really ought to be judging Coulson and the Tories!
14 ukpaul, be careful. The saintly Southam Observer will be along shortly, with accusations of thread diversion.
15, I think you’ll find he’s an intelligent man on the top of his brief, and an excellent media performer to boot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziTrlKAkn94
re Ian Bailey’s 368 on the previous thread. Having dealt with the Hindujas when I was Director of Development at Cambridge University I was appalled by Mandelson’s handling of this affair. He may have been cleared of specific wrong-doings but he showed himself to be a cack-handed operator with zero idea on how big ticket fundraising operates.
Can someone tell me what his core competencies are to balance his appalling judgement and poor people handling skills?
He is rubbish and Labour people are clutching at straws when they try to suggest anything else. Mandy’s return will end in tears - it has before and it will again.
Afternoon all - I expect this particular story to make approximately the square root of f all difference to the public’s voting intentions. Its only effect will be negative, in that it has presumably crowded out other stories, such as MPs’ second jobs details, that might have got more attention and swayed more votes. It might also have indirect impact because I doubt the Government can expect any favours from the News International stable of newspapers in the foreseeable future.
The most interesting bit of the story was watching the desperate vigour with which Labour politicians and Chris Huhne leapt on it prematurely. Such poor tactics betray their extreme concern about the strength of the Tories’ political position.
O/T Still honours even after the second. Will either of you have a result today?
Wildly off topic, but those who still pine for SeanT, late of this parish, according to Twitter today he is mostly failing to assemble a tent.
22, I think I speak for us all when I say I hope seanT’s erection problems are soon resolved and that it’s a shame he has yet to return.
9. I’m sure Coulson is very good at his job. But we should also remember that the influence of PR men on election outcomes is grossly exaggerated - mostly by PR men themselves.
The ‘phone tapping scandal’ may have gone somewhere had it been covered by the media, as it was, only a tiny fraction of it got coverage and that was mainly for political hubris. In the real world the front pages are running with “Teacher batters school kid” “more deaths in Afghanistan” “Britain’s flu deaths Double” “Scandal of Britain’s fruit-farm workers” says it all really.
Yesterday was not a good day to exhume bad news.
In these situations those involved need to be, if not famous, known.
Expenses registered because of “Lord” and “MP”, and as we know has played extensively in the local press in constituencies.
In earlier times both Campbell were well known personalities. Neither Coulson or McBride have any profile outside of the media village. Had anyone any idea what either looked like? They were just names.
In the case of Coulson this is very old stuff, it is not current to him. It may well date back from the time when Campbell was drafting dossiers or Mandelson filling in mortgage applications.
The difference with McBride is the McBride emails were a smear attempt this year.
In short somebody whom you would not recognise was editor of the News of the World several years ago and did……People know what the NOTW is like, as they know what the Sun and the Mirror are like.
More interesting, is increasing numbers, thanks to the net, are finding out about the Guardian, an organ which is purchased by few but influences far too many.
A fair assessment from David but I’m not sure that I agree with his conclusion. Allowing individuals to be forced out of their current job based on matters which relate to past failures for which they have already paid, because part of the media deigns it so doesn’t seem right to me.
However, it may all be a moot issue as if the Indy was right a month ago as the deal has already been done:
David Cameron plans to replace his controversial chief spin doctor, Andy Coulson, at the next election. The former News of the World editor, who has masterminded the Tory leader’s slick communications strategy for the past two years, will not continue in his role even if the Mr Cameron gets to Downing Street, senior party insiders have revealed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/creator-of-tough-new-cameron-to-step-down-after-election-1704814.html
Note the date of the article - June 14th. Is the the Guardian and Labour trying to a ‘low blow’ in while they can perhaps?
This is an interesting story/scandal, but it is about dodgy journalists, not dodgy politicians. We are obsessed about the relationship between Fleet Street and Westminster (well, YOU are, at any rate!) but most people don’t make the connection. So it is in the “Interesting but Irrelevant” category, I’m afraid.
At the risk of being accused of all sorts of things, as per last thread, I think Mike has it spot-on at 7.
Interesting though that David H thinks that Coulson will eventually go. I’m not so sure; if he survives the next few days, which seems likely, it will be because this was indeed a storm in a teacup. In a way that might strengthen his position, especially since he is unlikely to become a public figure like Alastair Campbell.
7 - I continue to believe that, unusually, you’ve called this one wrongly, Mike.
Yates’ statement was very limited. He confirmed he was happy with his colleagues’ earlier investigation and that they had squeezed out all the charges (on a criminal standard of proof remember) that they were going to get. I don’t find that very surprising - barring actual corruption on the part of any officer (which is in no way suggested) the Police tend to rally round in these circumstances.
A number of enormous dangers still exist:
1. The CPS have yet to complete their review and might tell the Police to reopen the file.
2. Probably more significantly, as I write law firms around London are having a lot of meetings with a lot of very aggressive lawyers who haven’t got as much work on right now as they would like. Nothing announced yet, but it may get very bloody indeed and some of the names involved are interesting to the public.
3. Coulson still hasn’t rebutted the meat of the story. His sole statement was unbelievably narrow, pointing out he wasn’t around when the Gordon Taylor settlement was paid out. That’s like saying I was around for the burglary but long gone when the old bill arrived.
4. If it does get hot for a journalist or ex-journalist, or simply if they want to settle and old score, Coulson could very easily get dragged down into a very unpleasant pit - “yes, I did bad things, but the editor made me”.
I know a lot of people here will shout me down over this. Fine. Let’s just wait and see whether or not this story was the one-day wonder a few think. I happen to believe not.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5794908/MPs-expenses-Alan-and-Ann-Keen-face-formal-sleaze-investigation.html
about time too!
[27,jsfl] - That might be fairly smart. Intuitively it makes sense to me that communicating when in government is a different game to when in opposition. One of New Labour’s many problems is that they didn’t seem to make that transition, and so made a number of poor decisions for short-term political perception-management reasons.
It’s days like this I wish I wasn’t a Tory then I could have a big strop, throw all my toys out of the pram and thqueam and thqueam until i’m thick because my chaps carefully planned attack ends up going nowhere. it was fun seeing you guys get all excited about it though. Are any other editors or former editors going to be called to the culture select committee?
From Last thread
243.238 - My view is the opposite.
I want Labour to get rid of all their detritus, and the Conservatives to keep all theirs.
by tim July 10th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Tim, wouldnt that mean that the entire Cabinet and much of the PLP would have to go.
30. SNP
Oh dear…..
Should we all be scared if there are ravenous lawyers on the prowl across the once solid gold paved streets of London?
FPT: 372.215/217: No, I don’t think people who do something wrong should be barred from future employment in different jobs. Nor do I think Coulson should be drummed out of the Tory party (or McBride from Labour, as many here were arguing a few weeks ago). I don’t even know if Coulson *has* done anything wrong. My point, which I see nobody has disputed, is that Cameron’s use of the phrase ’second chance’ implies that he does think so, at the same time as he’s sort of maintaining the opposite by saying he’s had assurances, etc. That ambiguity will need at some point to be clarified if the issue is to be put to bed.
As for the question about editors of other papers - I think anyone in any job at all who breaks the law routinely as part of their work should resign (and be prosecuted). Don’t you?
34. MTF - It would probably mean the dissolution of the Labour Party?
36, there is no equivalence between Coulson and McBride. Whilst working for the Tories Coulson has not attempted to cook up smears using the apparatus of government (paid for by the taxpayer) to damage the wives of political opponents. Pretending they’re the same or even similar is nonsense.
Afternoon all.
I really am astounded by all the hype surrounding this “News of The World Story”.
When MP’s Expensesgate was announced there was a lot of public anger and chingwagging going on. I have not overheard a single comment from any member of the public about this story and I travel all over the place. If anything people are going to see it as a desperate witch hunt and Sleaze campaign by Labour/BBC/Guardian, especially now that the yard have dismissed it!
Knowone has really heard of Coulson and because he is unknown and not an MP, they don’t associate him with the Conservatives anyway.
I have never seen such an act of desperation as witnessed yesterday wherby Labour and Liberal MP’s tried to get some political points out of this story. If anything, vote wise, Labour are going to suffer and I bet I’m right about this.
Further if Labour keep calling for Coulson to go then so will the “Unellected One Mk2″ - now that would be an interesting story. Cameron has plenty of aces to draw down if he want’s too.
36 ‘Nor do I think Coulson should be drummed out of the Tory party (or McBride from Labour, as many here were arguing a few weeks ago).’
That says a lot about you, if don’t consider McBride worthy of expulsion from the Labour Party, and any other action that may have been taken against him. The games he was playing really were in a truly different league. Others should have gone with him.
36. Nick Palmer.
As for the question about editors of other papers - I think anyone in any job at all who breaks the law routinely as part of their work should resign (and be prosecuted). Don’t you?
I do. So please tell us why they weren’t in 2006 and why it seems that neither you or your colleagues in the House have not banged on about it since the CPS et al bottled it in 2006?
Polly @ CIF, “Our call to arms for voters”
“Change in the voting system will not come from parliament – we have to galvanise popular anger, and drive change through”
Polly is quickly brought back to planet earth however by TMAP in the comments.
“Brave effort - but this was just the usual suspects taking another desperate swipe at trying to achieve power “by any means”.
Can we just try normal majority rule first, and an elected PM?
The problem is entirely your once beloved NuLabour and its disdain for parliament, not the system.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jul/10/vote-for-change-voting-system
or = nor
36.With such logic I have no idea why you were overlooked in favour of unelected Lords in the recent reshuffle. I’m positive you could give a more cogent argument on Europe, ID cards etc than Glenys Kinnock.
McBride supporter that you are, why you even post on this topic is…interesting to say the least. Cameron’s phrase second chance, was I’m afraid a typically brilliant soundbite. It implies that Cameron knew all was not well in the NoftheW newsroom, but has decided that given Mr Coulson lost his job over it, that he had payed enough of a price.
Would you prosecute the Editor of the Daily Telegraph for revealing your expenses? Do you really think you would have the public with you?
35 - Always fear a lawyer with a scent of blood and no meatier prey to feast on, that’s my professional advice.
Court is a very public place to wash your linen, and there isn’t a very obvious way to settle this stuff out of court just now (given the story arose from shady out of court deals).
The Cameron support about giving Coulson a ’second chance’ and that he has not done anything wrong whilst employed by The Conservatives.
This will ring well with voters, as most people know someone who has been given a second chance, in life, in employment. A clever strategy from Cameron.
If Coulson is forced out all the Conservatives guns, the press, the news will be turned on Mandleson, there are plenty of bodies to discover where he is conserned and he is the one who is keeping Labour from civil war. I agree with Mike on this because it is hipocrital of Labour to say it is ok for Mandleson to have his third chance but no one else is allowed the same.
45.The 1st ‘celebrity’ to initiate a prosecution will be hounded by the media & would face a large legal bill. Or, they could let sleeping dogs lie, and get on with their life.
Simon StClare - Majority rule?
l
2 - I must admit the man made me cringe when I saw him his little rant on the news.
Not his finest hour
Peter, I see I am back to normal form, that’s my first 2 horses down, neither made the first three. Think yesterday was a fluke.
31.
NOT A SINGLE MENTION OF THIS SLEAZE INVESTIGATION OF THE LABOUR “KEENS” ON THE BBC WEBSITE, LAST WEEK WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED GEORGE OSBORNE WAS BEING INVESTIGATED IT WAS UP WITHIN MINUTES AS BREAKING NEWS ! THE BBC ARE OFFICIALLY THE “STASI PARTY VOICE”
48 – Sorry Tim, your comment has lost me, care to elaborate?
When R5 have a phone-in about this story, I will believe it has traction.
I heard Torin Douglas earlier today when questioned about it sounding very erm = it’s not a story actually.
I really like/rate Torin and it was obvious that he wished he wasn’t being asked to comment on a teacup storm.
50 It’s still a no-score draw, Malcolm. The crowd’s on the edge of his seat.
“Cameron has said that everyone deserves a second chance and that‘s fair enough. As long as Peter Mandelson remains in the cabinet, Labour cannot effectively argue against that - and Mandelson will be there for the remainder of the parliament. However, CCHQ should be thinking very seriously about life after Coulson.”
David, I totally disagree with you about Coulson having to go, what for? Has he done anything untoward in his role in the Conservative Party? You are falling into a trap here, and sound like that Anne Clywd. Remember the amount of Minister’s who have failed to step down from their post when real incompetence has come to light on their watch. I am with Mike, this is a Westminster bubble story, not even picked up and run with by most of the media. Surprise, surprise. And there in lies the problem, how many hostile opposition MP’s, or journalists working for newspapers on that list are going to happily keep kicking this story into life? They still work for those newspaper’s, Coulson does not.
47 chris_g00. Or they might decide to go for a class action against the NotW.
50 malcolmg. You are Peter the Punters luv child and I claim a winning tip …. some time this decade will do !!
36 NickP - Yes, we have disputed, indeed refuted, the point of your first paragraph.
45 SNP - On the other hand, I doubt whether the Murdoch empire is an easy touch. And in any case, wouldn’t any action take months if not years to come to court?
So, yes, maybe letters along the lines ‘Dear Editor, Your paper stinks, Pay my client some dosh’, but I suspect not much else at the end of the day.
could someone remind me how to do a site search please?
Some of the crowd are on the pitch (surrounded by ripped up betting slips)
53 listening to R5 whilst driving home from station last night the beeb tried to talk about this story with a guy from the independant.
The guy from the independant shut it down straight away, saying there wasn’t much of a story (anyway) and Yates had killed it.
60
Tim will keep it going.. he loves clutching at straws.
36: ‘I don’t even know if Coulson *has* done anything wrong. My point, which I see nobody has disputed, is that Cameron’s use of the phrase ’second chance’ implies that he does think so’
Nick, I think we’re getting into semantic shenanigans here. Clearly Coulson did do something wrong, namely when he was editor of a newspaper illegal activities were being performed by his staff that he was unaware of. It was he job to be aware. He didn’t spot and put an end to these activities as and so resigned. Cameron’s point is that he’s not holding that previous negligence against him. Your suggestion that Cameron’s words imply he knows that Coulson conspired in these illegal activities is stretching it to breaking point I’m afraid.
Freedom of speech under New Labour:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/8143716.stm
30 “Probably more significantly, as I write law firms around London are having a lot of meetings with a lot of very aggressive lawyers who haven’t got as much work on right now as they would like.”
What utter bl**dy tosh.
The only legal mind to break cover this morning on the Today programme spoke of two (yes, that’s it, two!) phone conversations. No meetings.
He suggested other law firms had been contacted but no one has emerged to confirm this, so for the moment we can conclude that the R4 appearance was a free puff for a lawyer trying to drum up business.
To very little avail it would appear from the The Guardian’s own web story - even now - which goes no further than the two phone calls.
This story is going nowhere.
53. Matthew Parris ducked it nicely yesterday on Radio 5. His line was along the line of ‘I’m a commentator. I don’t know about these investigative thingies’
Giving someone a second chance is an interesting topic.
As someone whom many argue has been given a second chance, it is interesting that those who in public were full of indignation about me being given a second chance were to a man and women people whom I had protected from repossession of their homes, bankruptcy, shoplifting charges and other “scandals” which in a rural community would have finished each of them for life.
56.Kerry Katona, John Prescott, Alec Ferguson, Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Anthony Eden, Lady Diana, Clement Atlee, Maggie Thatcher…vs NofW
I don’t think so.
Where’s Gabble to warn us of the Herdson/Smithson/Cameron/Satan conspiracy attempting to downplay the story of the century?
38 Morris Dancer I would re-phrase what you wrote as
“Whilst working for the Govt paid for by tax payers, McBride attempted to cook up smears using the apparatus of government to damage the wives of political opponents.”
That is why Mcslime was worse. Unfortunately NickMP fails to grasp how much worse Mcslime was. He is even comfortable being in the same party as this scumbag.
61. MTF. I thought he was clutching at something else most of the time!
;o)
9.”re 4. Kevin Maguire told me a few months ago that Coulson had transformed the Tory operation. He’s good.”
Mike, not surprised. And I think that is why Cameron is so keen to hang onto him. This whole NotW story would have been a major part of any discussions before he was ever employed by the Conservatives.
IIRC, Don mentioned that a replacement had been lined up to replace him should he go off to pastures new. That lack of permanency has been a long running story, largely under the radar, and much forgotten over the last few days. He was for a long time, I believe, only going to be around until the GE. I for one had hoped they could persuade him to stay on afterwards, that is when he is going to be most needed IMHO. And now with this storm in a teacup, he might be persuaded to stay on even longer, that is why I disagree with David Herdsman. If anything, to be seen to stand down at any point between now and the GE would be regarded as a much more damaging story.
Not looking like the Aussies are going to need to bat again… Almost at England’s score with 6 wickets remaining.
64 GeoffH, the lawyer concerned who featured on the Today programme is very media savvy when it comes to a bit of free publicity.
Surprised by Nick’s comments. I thought he had previously condemned McBride of Frankenstein as not being someone Labour should have in its ranks.
74. Nick has been very slippery indeed on that issue - unsurprisingly as it is clear McBride is very much still patr of the Labour effort.
74 Marquee Mark, why are you surprised? Like many MP’s, Mr Palmer has whatever views he is told to take by his political masters. The whips jerk his lead, and Nipper sits up and performs his tricks.
73. “media savvy?”
Unprincipled would be a better description after this morning’s performance. I’ll not mention his name nor that of his firm. They don’t deserve it.
He and they could have been the inspiration for the old joke;
“What do you call 1000 lawyers drowned in a sinking ship?”
“A good start”
71 - Presumably Cameron has a replacement lined up because Coulson has told him the truth about the NOTW operation.
Lets see what he says in public.
PS “David Herdsman” is not a real herdsman, a bit like Judge Jules not being a real judge.
66. Easterross.
I’m glad you are back. I must protest at your use of the phrase ‘Margate Fishwife’ (pronounced Margit) earlier today. Being someone who grew up in Thanet (pronounced Fanit) to allude to the fact that Margit has a fishing industry is wholly inaccurate. You only have to look at the lack of fishing boats (or any other boats for that matter) in the rather ridiculous harbour in Margit to realise there is no fishing. However, generally deriding Margit is OK by me as I was a Ramsgate (pronounced Ramsgit) boy.
Now Ramsgit does have a reasonable Harbour and indeed still has one or two small fishing boats. However, I doubt that this is sufficient to support a colony of fishwives. That said the harbour does provide considerable shelter to a large number of small yachts and pleasure craft. So rather than fishwife - ‘yachtwife’ or ‘pleasurewife’ might be somewhat more accurate.
;o)
On topic, IMHO the effect of this on voting intentions is likely to boil down to which party leader on prime-time TV is looking like the leader you’d rather follow.
Mr Brown is doing his stuff at G8; Mr Cameron is doing his stuff at home.
If they’re getting equal air-time it will give folks a good comparison.
Coulson will not resign or be sacked unless he is specifically and publicly linked to something dodgy and i’m sure he is clever enough never to have actually kept a record of anything illegal that he may or may not have done.
Cameron’s line about giving Coulson a second chance is very good. Many people have done questionable things in a previous job - why should it follow them around for the rest of their lives?
7.
“Yates of the Yard thought differently.”
Er no he didn’t. The remit which he addressed the other day was so narrow as to be virtually irrelevent to the new allegations. You have to remember, too, that although they may sometinmes be exremely CLEVER (for instance in getting large publicly-funded salaries with massive pensions or observing Brazilians jumping over underground barriers when no one else sees such a thing), top policemen are not always very INTELLIGENT. Otherwise they would have become bankers. They do, however, have a certain CUNNING which allows them to obfuscate and cover-up when there are suggestions that they may have cocked-up big-style. In fact it is a wonder that more of them do not become MPs!
Now for a hard one. Try to place these three statements in order of plausibility:
a) Andy Coulson had no knowledge of what 37 of his NoW journalists were paying large sums to private investigators for.
b) I am Martin Day.
c) Jonathan Djangoly’s Polish au pair living in London used to regularly clean his Huntingdon ’second home’.
My father was in a mobile bath unit, in France, just after D-Day. Being a sergeant, he wasn’t in charge though.
I’m now doing the traditional summer English activity (which I got out of the habit of doing under MPV) of looking at the weather for the weekend and hoping for rain.
We might well get enough tomorrow to help a draw.
Looks like I am set for the wooden spoon in the clash of the Titans, thats 3 horses down and not one even placed so far, Pictorial is my only hope.
84 Yer bogger! And there’s me going to an open-air Leonard Cohen concert tomorrow evening. Grrrrrr!!
86 Leonard Cohen? Here, in England?? Where exactly, MM, and how much for your tickets?
Perhaps I’m missing some obvious point, but why (in the absence of any criminal prosecution) should Andy Coulson’s behaviour as Editor of the News of the Screws, have any bearing on his current role?
What does Dave mean by “second chance”?
If Coulson was involved in the crimes at the NOTW then he hasn’t been punished, or are we to believe that resigning is now the same as “paying the money back”
82 - So people who are too intelligent to be coppers become bankers, eh?
What do people who are too intelligent to be bankers become? Fence-posts? Bollards?
Breaking News on BBC - Torture case opened by Met Police, Keens get their house back from squatters and major fire in Soho…
91 - Binyam Mohammed case being investigated (apologies for the quick follow up)
Apologies if this is a repost but I’ve just come across this amusing little nugget from Mr Dale. Apparently the North Norwich Libdem PPC April Pond has a moat.
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/07/april-pond-has-moat.html
Is it a case of if it’s good for the Conservatives it must be good for the Libdems then?
PS I agree with Dale - everyone should have one.
And another breaking news on this thread…
“Liberal Democrat Home Affairs spokesman, Chris Huhne, has asked the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) to open an inquiry into the Metropolitan Police’s investigation into phone tapping by journalists and private investigators.”
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/liberal_democrats_refer_phone_tapping_case_to_ippc.html
Lib Dems have referred the alleged phone hacking to the IPCC, hahahahahahaha
93. There will be ‘insufficient evidence’
Tim - how did you feel about Tony Blair having an ex-pornographer as his spin chief for so many years? Remember the Riviera Gigolo? Was Blair giving AC a “second chance”?
98. Didn’t the said person used to work for embezzler extraordinary Cap’n Bob Bob Bob as well?
floater@58: “could someone remind me how to do a site search please?”
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apoliticalbetting.com+%22obama+will+lose%22
94 - That’s a bit rich of Dale when he had his main home in Tunbridge Wells when he stood for North Norfolk (although he had a pied-a-terre in the seat I believe).
83 my grandfather was a captain in charge of a mobile laundry and shower unit also in france soon after d day.i believe they did sterling work
98 Don’t forget Franci$ Maude in addition to his public funded flats business likes is getting filthy rich.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2006/10/02/true-blue-tory-115875-17851468/
Dave is relaxed about that too.
98 - Pornography as such is neither illegal nor, in my view, even morally wrong.
98 - i think Campbell is very open about Blair giving him a second chance after his alcoholism and related depression
I don’t understand what Cameron is accusing Coulson of doing?
What is it?
Easterross, if you are around. What do you make of this story in the P&J? Fury over plan for levy on home heating oil and LPG.
102. What about embezzlement?
103 having to resign from the NOTW over the royal correspondant issue - the one you were wittering on about before this story came up. I’d have thought that was obvious even to a socialist.
98. Regardless of any hypocrisy on the Labour side (of which there is always plenty), Cameron’s ’second chance’ line is utterly laughable. How many second chances did Andrew Mackay get? Or Moat Man? Or Duck Island Man? The Cameron doctrine is ‘One Strike And You’re Out’ if you’re only lobby fodder, but a profoundly moving Mother Theresa-style commitment to forgiveness and redemption if you happen to be really indispensable at Tory HQ.
106 - “having to resign”
Thats a serious allegation.
92 Fab quote on the Mail re fire in Soho…
Nino Ripani, manager of nearby restaurant Signor Zilli’s, said: “It’s really shocking, it’s something that you don’t see every day. It’s really getting to serious stuff now - we can see the black bits coming out.”
105 - Embezzlement is both illegal and morally wrong. I hope this helps, and if you need further guidance, my confessional box is always open for you (oo-er).
I was not defending Mr Campbell, just challenging Mike’s assertion that having been a pornographer is inherently something people need forgiveness for.
107 second chance is not a cateogrical imperative.
One imagines, for example, Cameron wouldn’t give Ken Clarke a seocnd chance if he was caught buggaring HMQ
98.
“Was Blair giving AC a “second chance”?”
Was that what he was giving Carol Caplin?
Coming back to the issue in hand, I noticed that John Prescott was getting apopleptic on the Brillo prog last night. Besides sharing similar approach to both the tapping and the tapping-up issues, I noticed that the hair of both gents(sic) was a most peculiar and almost identical tinge. Do they have a mutual friend, Herr Dyer?
109- 1666… 2009?
108 *yawn* OK, choosing to resign because of someting an underling had done.
108 *yawn* OK, choosing to resign because of someting an underling had done.
If Cammo thinks it is right to give people a second chance, will this resonate with voters at the GE?
“Gordon Brown - he deserves a second chance”
On an unrelated topic, but marginally linked to some of the prvious discussions, a chap I used to work with had a Polish au pair. He then put het up in a flat round the corner from work, and used to pop round at lunchtimes. Allegedly!
117 no, he has already had several chances which he has used up.
113. He also believed in forgiveness for Australian conmen, common street brawlers, sex pests and terrorist murderers as well. A true saint.
Cameron’s intv with NYT
http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2009/07/the-new-york-timess-view-of-cameron.html
117
How can Gordon Brown need a second chance? - he hasn’t done anything wrong…
103 (and also Nick P earlier)
It seems clear to me that Cameron’s reference to “second chance” is an acknowledgement that Coulson resigned as the man ultimately responsible for the conduct of his juniors (i.e. that he lost his first chance).
It does not imply that Cameron believes Coulson had knowledge of the matters in question or acted improperly himself.
The “second chance” is a reference to the fact that Coulson has been restored to a position of some authority and influence, notwithstanding that he has previously had to resign from a previous position of some authority and influence.
There are hundreds of other examples - in politics and outside - of people being given second chances - by parties, by employers, by the electorate even.
IMHO, this does not even come close to calling Cameron’s judgement into question. Nor is it inconsistent with Cameron’s statement that he believes AC did nothing wrong.
111.
“Cameron wouldn’t give Ken Clarke a seocnd chance ”
As I recall, Ken C was not prepared to give Chamereon even a first chance as Norman Lamont was being given the bum’s rush, because he (the Cham) was so totally hopeless. Plus ca change.
92. Breaking News on SBC “Keens get their house back from squatters”… Nothing about the fact that it has been announced today that they are being investigated by the Sleaze Watchdog. How odd the Stasi Broadcasting Corporation forgot to mention this…
There is hypocrisy everywhere in this story. Not least on pb.com.
If Coulson has been working for anyone but the Tories, the local crowd here would have been baying for blood as per usual. Some of nimble footwork demonstrated by the regulars has been quite impressive.
Personally I think there is more than enough evidence to really question the PR operations operated by both parties. The less our politicians are packaged and protected by slick PR, I suspect the better off we will be.
I was going to join the debate but it has decended to parody, so I pass.
122 - Thats clear.
So Cameron believes Coulson didn’t know what was going on at the NOTW?
123 and? Who give a sh!t about personnel changes in the last Tory administration? I would have thought Clarke would have been mad NOT to bring in his own team to the Exchequer.
I ge tthe impression you don’t like Tory politicians. Plus ca change
117. Sandy Re Brown. He had his second chance a long time back.
1st Chance Chancellor - failed (the recession, the immense public debt, the profligacy and waste, the first run on a bank in a century or more etc etc)
2nd Chance - Leader of The Labour Party (the lowest poll ratings in Labour’s history, worst election vote share for 70 plus years)
3rd Chance - Prime Minister - failed (bottled election, numerous U-turns, youtube - national laughing stock etc.)
How many relaunches has he had and he is still not off the ground?
Is anyone talking about a fourth chances? I think not.
In my book three strikes and you’re out!
79 jsfl, if and hopefully when a suitable day comes, I look forward to sharing a decent bottle of claret (spelt “alcohol”) with you!! Indeed if any of my PB colleagues are venturing north this summer, it would be a genuine pleaseure to meet up if possible. that invitation even extends to the Tims and Coldsores of this world
123. You really should stop reading the Stasi News you are becoming even more brainwashed into spilling out drivel ! Go and water you cactus or something.
127 why don’t you ask Cameron, tim?
121.
He hasn’t done anything right either !
127 tim, since you appear to have the inside track on everything that goes on in CCO why don’t you simply tell us what Cameron believes with regard to Coulson? Saves your keyboard the wear and tear of asking us a question to which you clearly already have the answer.
133
107 Red Meteor makes a fair (if not original) point that Cameron applies different standards to his close friends and key allies than he does to those on the margins.
However, much as I would like Cameron to be even-handed, the reality in all walks of life is that people have the opportunity to build up a pool of goodwill, which they then sometimes need to call upon. If the pool is deep, nourished by years of loyal service, brilliance and good humour, a minor indiscretion can be overlooked. If the pool is shallow, depleted by disloyalty, incompetence and spite, a minor indiscretion can exhaust the pool.
Put another way - my brother has punched me more times in my life than any other person, and we are still very close. Very few other people could punch me even once and be on my christmas card list.
122 - Clearly I am not in a position to answer that, but it would be consistent with his public statements that he believes that to be the case. I would imagine he would find it very difficult to keep Coulson in his employ if he did not believe Coulson to be honest.
I am not quite sure where you are going with your line of questioning
134 - My man at CCO, the guy who sprays the cisterns with WD40, says they’ve got a settled line.
And its “You’ll have to ask Mr Coulson about that”
124.
““Keens get their house back from squatters”…”
So THAT’s where the McKay-Kirkbrides have been hiding! Or was it the Wintertons?
I actually think that, arguably, Jonathan Hunt’s putting his political agent up in his ’second home’ for three years is potentially the worst offence of all so far revealed. If she paid no rent it was effectively a sizable political subsidy paid for entirely out of the public purse. It also emphasises the fact that for a good many MPs, the size of their ’second homes’ never owed anything to their personal accomodation needs but was entirely a speculative punt capitalised by the taxpayer. They ALL knew this was the system, even if about 20 per cent of them didn’t choose to play the game themselves. Putting a (paying or non-paying) ‘tenant’ in there to look after the freuently-otherwise-unattended property seemed, before all the fuss, merely a prudent move to prevent break-ins or ‘occupations’ a-la-Keen.
130. Easterross. Unfortunately, not this summer so I’ll have to offer a raincheck on that one but be sure if I’m in the vicinity it would be a pleasure to share that claret with you or any other palatable alcohol (pronounced booze).
;o)
138.
“the guy who sprays the cisterns with WD40, says they’ve got a settled line.”
I’m told that if you spray the WD on the top of the cistern, the line becomes unusable.
139 - The man who admitted to lying about his agent living in his house was Jeremy Hunt MP.
Not Jonathan.
You’re getting your Djangolys mixed up with yer Hunts
137 ‘I am not quite sure where you are going with your line of questioning’
tim’s a creature of habit, and is making a valiant effort at steering the thread in a particular direction so that he can make a pre-prepared point about Cameron.
129.
“three strikes and you’re out!”
Your view would have seen Maggie T down the road long before she took on Scargill.
Things are pretty desperate if the term ‘second chance’ is all that the pedant squad has to play with.
141 - Presumably, as the Conservative Party receives state subsidies, its a Quango by Daves last desperate definition.
Does that make Mr Coulson one of the highly paid quango chiefs?
124 - “Nothing about the fact that it has been announced today that they are being investigated by the Sleaze Watchdog”
Are you sure? The article on the BBC website says, “It comes as the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner confirmed the pair are facing a probe over the property.”
Maybe read the report in future before pointing the finger, Wayne?
146 no, it doesn’t
125. “If Coulson has been working for anyone but the Tories, the local crowd here would have been baying for blood as per usual.”
you are possibly correct in that assertion but it wouldn’t make what they were calling for right.
it’s just been quite an amusing episode imho. probably plenty more coming this way during silly season too.
“Alan and Ann Keen, the Labour MPs, are to have their expenses investigated by the parliamentary sleaze watchdog.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5794908/MPs-expenses-Alan-and-Ann-Keen-face-formal-sleaze-investigation.html
145. Yes, it’s beyond desperate isn’t it?
146.
In which case, Chamereon could sack Coulson declaring it to be part of his Quango-thinning policy. It’s the only part of such a policy that he would ever implement. Conservative politicians (including those in Labour Party) LOVE Quangos. They are undemocratic, non-accountable and keep the ‘buck’ from ever stopping on the Minister’s desk.
We’re still flogging this dead horse then?
It’s very odd. I was expecting to find that there is huge indignation amongst Labour supporters about this story:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5796601/Binyam-Mohamed-police-to-investigate-claims-British-agents-colluded-in-torture.html
Come on, Jonathan, tim, Southam Observer, Nick P and all: this is surely a cause which the Left will be very, very angry about, as they were about the slightest little breach or alleged breach of civil liberties in Thatcher’s day.
Presumably the demonstrations will be starting soon?
104 Christina, I shall just have to dig even harder to complete the re-excavation of my duck pond and moat so I can pull up the drawbridge and stop any bounders trying to charge me more to heat the old pile.
More seriously as the mains gas pipeline ends 15 miles down the road and we have around 20 electricity failures a year, if this idiot of a minister isn’t out of office by June 2010, we shall need to ensure he donates both his kidnies by force if necessary.
Just laugh at all these silly smears from the Labour Trolls: After the Conservative’s general election victory which, will be of landslide proportions - The Stasi Party and their sister company The Stasi Broadcasting Corporation will each be broken up and sent to live together deep below ground in hell with the man who has a red cape and horns !! (NO - NOT PETER MANDELSON, THE OTHER DEVIL)
152 what about Liberals, or are they also Conservatives/tories?
154 - I’d rather see what the results of the enquiry are.
I don’t think Thatcher was personally responsible for the crimes and fit ups of the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad, do you?
156.
Ein Volk!! Ein Reich!!! Ein Leiter!!!!
All this fuss recently about the odd sperm in a test-tube. Wayne proves beyond a doubt that Hitler’s mob perfected the cloning of Goebells 65 years ago.
toodle pip you lot. I am off for a restette and to catch a bit of SKY News and the Pravda business news.
Hi There,
Just heard from my wife that the local surgery is overwhelmed by swine flu. Real chaos there. She had to pop in because her repeat prescriptions were not delivered as per usual.
Does anyone else have any similar anecdotes?
On topic, I think the story will bubble away for a bit, because it involves celebrities. This will be slightly harmful to Cameron.
Less on topic, I think the editor of the NOTW should be fired for this story:
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/06/07/are-7-cabinet-ministers-for-the-chop/
The poll is finally up at ICM - they forgot to post it, possibly due to the psychological trauma of seeing conclusions drawn about individual constituencies on the basis of, typically, something like 12 people saying they were going to vote Conservative and 15 people saying they were going to vote Labour.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/pdfs/2009_june_notw_cabmin_poll.pdf
At the time Mike was very rude to RodCrosby for speculating that the constituency numbers were statistical voodoo with teensy sample sizes. It turns out they’re even worse than Rod suggested…
71.Oops, apologies for getting David’s surname wrong today. It must be all the whinging about herds on this site these days.
161 - A GP I know told me that lots of people are phoning up claiming to have swine flu and asking for tamiflu despit it not being reported in the area.
She thinks some people are using it as an excuse for a week off work.
Perfect as people are also using the fact that they shouldn’t go to the surgery.
161 - A GP I know told me that lots of people are phoning up claiming to have swine flu and asking for vaccine despite it not being reported in the area.
She thinks some people are using it as an excuse for a week off work.
Perfect as people are also using the fact that they shouldn’t go to the surgery.
oops sorry, don’t know what happened there.
155.Easterross, I an really worried that he didn’t rule out such an incredible stupid idea like that. It would be a devastating levy in my patch.
159.
Go and rest or something, you must be exhausted with all those attempt’s at trying to be funny.
161 I have been unwell for a week or so, nothing bizarre, just under the weather/a little feverish at times. I wonder if it is Swine Flu, but I am not going to sit and pollute a GPs surgery if it is and I wouldn’t trust a telephone diagnosis.
I also wonder if most of the country will have had it before vaccines are made available.
Someone mentioned on here a whole ago that the government’s handling of swine flu had been ‘pretty good’ so far - I am not sure how. It has not been contained, there is no vaccine available yet and there is limited information about hotspots and the spread, and the flu hotline is not up and running.
I am not sure they could have done much differently and therefore probably don’t deserve specific criticism (perhaps a hurry up though), but to say they had handled it ‘well’ thus far would be a very generous assessment.
Whats happened to the whole Outside Earnings thing? I was expecting Tim to spontaneously combust when Willian Hague’s outside earnings was published, but so far nothing? What gives?
169 GIN, see here for a possible explanation -
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-squirm-as-the-spotlight-turns-on-second-jobs-1721546.html
The Coulson story is a crock, period!
What we should all be worrying about is that the economy is about to take a second fall or downturn, on the back of all the cash wasted on the first.
The Great Messiah has had the word ‘Great’ removed from his address by the American public. No doubt the word ‘Messiah’ will soon follow:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
US stocks plummeting as we speak as unemployement edges 10,000,000.
re `162. There are not meant to be constituency polls but surveys based on samples from a range of specific marginal seats. Clearly with each seat you don’t get anything like a representative sample but you can draw some conclusions - particularly whether there is any difference in behaviour between the marginals and the the electorate as a whole.
Remember it was a News of the World marginals poll in October 2007 that played a part in the non-election decision.
170 - They only have to declare it once they have physically received payment.
170. Ah, I see.
159. LABOUR LABOUR LABOUR …. Bumsen Weg Von Jetzt
159. LABOUR LABOUR LABOUR …. Bumsen Weg Von Jetzt
125 - yeah, and er, if the editor had been anyone but Coulson then you lot wouldn’t have given it the attention it obviously doesn’t deserve.
Already it is way way down the pecking order of news. It was only big news yesterday because so much attention was put on Coulson by Labour (going on TV/radio every 30 minutes to keep it going) and the Grauniad put a huge picture of him on their front page.
Swine flu.
Dunno. My employer has provided anti-bacterial (yes, I know) gel and you cannot move around Telehouse (where the internet lives) without using their antiseptic handwash.
Someone posted a link to Personnel Today saying the government is considering allowing a self-certified two weeks off work. Here it is:
http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/07/10/51368/swine-flu-staff-to-be-allowed-two-weeks-off-with-no-sick-note.html
tim @ 164 blames the workers for malingering. Typical New Labour!
177
Tim’s doing his best to ramp it up.
Mike@172, but it’s not a poll of marginal seats, it’s a poll of cabinet ministers’ seats, which is an arbitrary collection of safe seats and marginal ones.
I suppose the legitimate use would be if you wanted to know the likely fate on current trends of the averagely safe cabinet minister, whatever that means… That’s certainly not what the NOTW article does - they go on to list the ones who will get the chop.
177. Yep, fizzling out. It’ll get a shot in the arm when Coulson gives evidence to the Whittindale commitee next week, but as long as he gets through that OK, he’ll survive.
171- Unemployment is the elephant in the room, around which all else is revolving. People’s confidence in Obama’s ability to turn America into a socialist paradise is undermined by his failure to stop unemployment numbers from blowing past his 8% benchmark, and confidence will be further shaken when it tops 10%.
This little matter is imperiling his entire global warming/healthcare/spending agenda by causing his allies in Congress to fear they may be jeopardizing their own careers by supporting him. If he doesn’t start to put all his efforts into the economy, his approval ratings will only continue to decline as people wonder why he isn’t worried about the same things they’re worried about.
172. Talking of marginals Mike, we should be getting the new Politics Home super marginals poll anytime shouldn’t we? Certainly either this month or next?
179 He’s hoping that lazy journalists surfing these pages looking for something to fill the Sundays, pick up on some of his comments here.
O/T, a little light relief.
The Sun has some serious international comment today with a great photo of the US President’s wandering (wondering?) eyes. They obviously thought his thoughts were innocent, otherwise the caption would have been: “Ooohbummah!” or even “Obama Sin-laden?”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2527924/G8-Leaders-in-agreement.html
185 Its Guido’s caption competition.
107 That may be true, but ultimately, so what? Cameron has given no latitude to people who are useless to him, while sticking by people who are useful to him.
That may be unfair, but that’s politics.
Southam Observer complained of a conspiracy of silence when the thread topic changed from his chosen subject, now its back on topic the guy disappears.
Ungrateful s0d, no pleasing some people…
178.
“tim @ 164 blames the workers for malingering. Typical New Labour!”
He should take a trip around some of the Public Sector Offices after 330 in the afternoon - finding someone working/actually still their, is like trying to find a Labour MP that still thinks they will win the next election.
185.
I was referring to the second picture on the page. In the first picture, the combination of Berlusconi and Sarkozy has caused the ‘intern’ to deposit her briefs on the carpet! No change there then.
My understanding is that the massive PH marginals poll will be updated and published in September ahead of the party conference season.
This is an event I am looking forward to and could provide a great basis for constituency betting
185- I looks like Uncle Silvio is a bad influence on Barack.
187. It seems eminently sensible, and what all good managers of people do.
Compare and contrast with the hapless Brown - promoter of incompetent sycophants, currently so lacking in authority he is unable to sack anyone.
191. Indeed Mike. This may be our final large marginal poll before the general elections exit polls. It will be a very significant event!
191.
Mike,
What are the sample numbers ? Wasn’t it about 35,000 last time ?
Peter, I managed to have 4 horses without even getting one in the first 3, think I will retire gracefully , worse than StJohn Tipping Service , though my winner yesterday probably keeps me above that.
194.
Yes an October Election ?
192 - Stars & Stripes
Random question but i’m genuinely interested in how the US media is dealing with the inevitable ballooning of debt over there. Here in the UK the obvious interest is in whether there will have to be spending cuts or tax rises (or both) to get things back into shape. There is very little or no attachment to the idea that future economic growth alone will be enough.
Could I ask what the analysis is like over your side of the pond?
187/193. I think the answer to Sean’s “so what?” question is fairly obvious. Most “good managers of people” do not have to worry about projecting themselves as paragons of virtue and integrity to an electorate that will ultimately decide their fate. If the public start to notice that Cameron is being a self-serving, sanctimonious hypocrite, it does matter - it matters a lot. Of course, whether they actually start to notice depends on our old favourite, the media narrative.
EdP @ 184 re lazy journalists.
I suspect the lazy journalist theory is what motivates some of the Conservative posters on here. Especially at PMQs.
Wayne @ 189 re public sector shirkers. I genuinely do not understand the virulent contempt for the public sector on here. Aside from anything else, a lot of public sector bosses will vote Conservative. And always remember it was the private sector which tanked the economy.
192.
“Uncle Silvio is a bad influence on Barack.”
BO always claimed to have been significantly influenced by Martin Luther King Jr who had his own ‘reputation’.
House Democrat dissention forces “indefinite delay” in today’s planned release of a health care bill:
http://www.rollcall.com/news/36666-1.html
197. No, it’ll be spring 2010, IMO. But I doubt there will be another marginals poll in the intrim (NotW seem to have stopped doing their ICM Marginals poll since the recession)
199. What a hilarious post.
187 - what use is Bill Wiggin, a doorstop?
And Djanogly?
204. Thankyou. I look forward to your vote in the end of year awards, seeing as there appears to be a vacancy.
196 MalcolmG
Three blanks from me too.
My 33/1 shot was narrowly beaten into fourth but bookies don’t pay out on hard luck.
Looks like a no score draw. Come back, StJohn. All is forgiven.
Can some one point me to the place in the pb archive where seant flounced off. I missed the moment
I miss Sean Fears Friday Slot. Reading Sean F’s column used to be the start of my weekend. I wonder if it’ll come back for the GE?
That big fire in Soho? Offices of somebody that the Good Lady Marquee Mark works with. Air conditioning unit blew up - apparently there were a lot of master tapes of films that have all been lost. I’m sure Roger can tell us more in due course.
204 PB’s Got Talent?
210 Really ? I’d have thought masters would be kept in flame proof boxes.
Very silly if they weren’t.
BBC: Breaking News: “News International’s Rebekah Wade says stories on illegal phone-tapping misleading”
Put in back in the box, quick!!!
210 It sounds as if the fire was in a building occupied by Future Capital Partners, a film finance company. I’d be surprised if they had an archive. The De Lane Lea post production facility is next door - film stock and material would have been kept there. Most films are duplicated and master copies are held at different sites.
198- Well, nobody expects to see any spending cuts (quite to the contrary) and economic growth seems a distant hope, so that leaves worries about deficits, unemployment, and tax increases.
The tax increase monster’s head still lurks just below the water’s surface and will undoubtedly spring forth as the implications of cap-and-trade, healthcare reform, and general spending manifest themselves, but this is for another day.
That leaves deficits and unemployment as the emerging major concerns today. Of course people are greatly troubled about unemployment and are beginning to be peeved at Obama for 1) making promises he either couldn’t or wouldn’t keep re: no higher than 8%, 2) seeming to be preoccupied with other matters, and 3) simply not making any progress on the problem (the “jobs saved” argument doesn’t seem to fly very well).
Deficits are a stranger animal than unemployment. Everybody can see unemployment as an issue for today, but deficits just give you a general unease that something bad is happening and it will have negative consequences some day. Anyone who has run up a credit card and then had to pay it back eventually can relate at a certain level. The media haven’t yet paid much attention to the deficits, almost accepting them without comment as they cheer on the Democrats’ cap-and-trade, healthcare reform, and other spending plans. But polls show that the people are starting to be very worried about deficits and the media will gradually be forced to follow that interest, kicking and screaming (they’d rather not talk about it because any discussion about deficits is quite unhelpful to the president in enacting his agenda).
My guess: the media will start to take a great interest in deficits once the Democrats take the plunge into massive tax increases, which presumably won’t come until they’ve at least passed the top items on their agenda (e.g., cap-and-trade and healthcare). Then they will seek to argue “Well, we all hate tax increases, but we have to pay for all this somehow!”
207. PtP. I had a much better day at the races today. Circumstances prevented me from following any of your tips…
Better luck next time
202 Any update on NJ Governor’s race? BTW Has Burris dropped out. If so any thoughts as to how he was persuaded not to run.
212 ‘Really ? I’d have thought masters would be kept in flame proof boxes.’
I’ve never seen film in a flame proof box! Proper vaults are fire resistant with suppression and alarms, but the film itself is rolled up into a normal film can, and placed on end in racks.
217- No recent news from NJ. As for Illinois, the Dems caught a break with Burris giving up, at least avoiding the spectacle of an intraparty battle to bring down a black U.S. senator in Obama’s home state. That said, Burris was probably forced to finally realize that he had no chance of even winning the Democratic primary and that his paltry fundraising numbers (only $20,000 so far) ended any hopes he may have had. So next November, it will likely be Rep. Kirk vs. a lesser Democratic choice emerging from a hotly contested primary now that Lisa Madigan decided to skip the race. If Madigan had run, I would have said this seat leans Dem. As it is today, I’d say it’s a toss-up.
209 Thanks. I just don’t have the time, any more. Mike has invited me to do the occasional guest column, and I’m working on one at the moment.
199 No one expects Cameron to be a paragon of virtue. Most successful politicians aren’t, and I very much doubt if Cameron is one. There’s nothing at all hypocritical in a political leader judging his subordinates on the basis of how useful they are to him.
208: Can some one point me to the place in the pb archive where seant flounced off. I missed the moment’
Just for sh*ts and giggles:
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/06/30/are-shares-in-mandelson-over-sold/#comment-1131566
215 I was surprised to see how small the margin was by which cap and trade passed, given the pretty substantial Democrat majority in the House.
220.
“No one expects Cameron to be a paragon of virtue.”
You calling Samantha C a ‘no one’?
219 Thanks. How are things looking further ahead for California next year. Isn’t the likely GOP nominee the head of EBay or something? Also any thoughts on whether Arnie will run for Senate or anything. Be interesting for the GOP if he did. May even make the Democrats sweat slightly.
Just trying out our 21st-century computer - does it really work like our old gas-fired one?
Wow - that’s impressive. Love it. (end of mini indulge, sorry!)
222. Don’t be. Party discipline is nothing like as it is in Britain. Besides all those newly elected Democrats in freshly captured GOP territory especially in Coal or rural states have only a tenous hold and will be thinking more about re-election than the party whip.
222- It was a bit of a game, really. Cap and trade is expected to be politically unpopular in all but solidly left-wing districts. Thus, Pelosi let as many of her pups off the leash as she could afford to do without actually losing the vote.
220. “No one expects Cameron to be a paragon of virtue.”
If that was even remotely true, the way the David Cameron brand has been packaged wouldn’t make the slightest bit of sense. He’d have presented himself as Vladimir Putin, not Julie Andrews.
“There’s nothing at all hypocritical in a political leader judging his subordinates on the basis of how useful they are to him.”
But that’s not where the hypocrisy lies. The hypocrisy lies in doing that and pretending there’s a different reason, ie. the sanctimonious drivel about ‘believing in second chances’ (when the evidence of our own eyes proves that he doesn’t).
On topic, although I think this story is dead, it’s probably worth clarifying something. A number of posters have referred to NOTW journalists hacking phones, when in fact the story says that they paid private investigators who had illegally checked voicemail.
This also potentially makes a slight difference to Coulson’s perceived position, because the question is not did he know what the journos were doing, it is did he know what the investigators were doing. It is (just) feasible he did not ask, or indeed asked not to be told… The hypothetical conversation in the editor’s office is not “I got this info by hacking phones”, it is now “I bought this info from an investigator”. “How did he get it?” “Do you really want to know?”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8145245.stm
Has easterros commented on this?
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/goldlist/2009/07/chris-walker-stands-down-as-candidate-for-berwickshire-roxburgh-and-selkirk.html
Do you think the, ‘expenses’ thingy is causing second thoughts amongst candidates?
214 Yep, it was Future - they had one of the best old buildings in Soho. I was only passing on what Herself had been told about the loss of originals by one of the senior folks there (who happened to be working from home, so missed it all).
218
That’s what I meant! I’d be aghast if they had the rolls in carrier bags!
229. “the sanctimonious drivel about ‘believing in second chances’ (when the evidence of our own eyes proves that he doesn’t).”
The pedantic response would depend on the parameters of “2nd chance”.
Should an MP “proven” to have abused the expenses system be allowed another chance NOT to abuse them as an MP? Perhaps not.
Should a newspaper editor who resigned on principle be allowed to take a different job with another employer without being hounded from their post? Perhaps.
Should a cabinet minister who has resigned in disgrace be allowed a return to the front bench? Who can say…
(Let the partisan sniping commence)
224- It would be a miracle for Arnie to engineer a political future for himself after presiding over the still-unfolding disaster that is the California state government. The last polling figures that I saw for Arnie were absolutely abysmal. His ratings make Corzine look like Mr. Popularity. I think he is finished.
Meg Whitman is the woman to whom you refer, who is on course for the GOP gubernatorial nomination next year (although it is still too soon to rule out other contenders). As for the Dems, their current leading contender is former governor Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown (whom I actually saw give a speech when he ran for president in 1992!). It is also too soon to predict which way the winds will be blowing by November 2010 in predicting which party will win the governorship there. I would guess the winner will be whomever can most successfully paint himself/herself as a skilled outsider who can bring some common sense to the dysfunction that is Sacramento.
229 do you not think its a non sequitor that because he believes in a second chance for one person, he has to believe in second chances for all, regardless of circumstances?
Like I said before, if Ken Clarke was caught buggaring HMQ, second chances wouldn’t come into it.
There is no hypocrisy in it at all.
Second Chance is not a Categorical Imperative
Cameron descended from Moses.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6677414.ece
237. “There is no hypocrisy in it at all.
Second Chance is not a Categorical Imperative”
War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
238 - He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother.
238. Now if ever there was a timely answer to Sean Fear’s assertion that “no-one expects Cameron to be a paragon of virtue”…
As the first Times commenter puts it, “let’s just call him God and have done with it”.
238 lol - Cameron descended from man that the ‘Bible’ claims lived to 120 - Cameron to be PM for the next 75 years?!
lol Those crazy Old Testament writers and their made up stories.
239 I know I am, but what are you?
Cameron descended from Moses.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6677414.ece
I guess (great, great….great grand)Son of Moses, trumps Son Of The Manse
Mind you Lord Mandelson might take issue with this, after last years comparison of gordon Brown to Moses
230. Thats an important point actually. The perception thats built up is that NotW journos themselves were doing this hacking. With the image of journo’s sitting in NotW HQ hacking into peoples voice mails while Andy Coulson was sat behind them watching the whole operation. That was definatly the image Andrew Neil and Selina Scott were attempting to create on This Week last night.
239 just to clarify though - you think that once someone says something, it applies in all circumstances, or its ‘hypocrisy’?
There is a difference in practice between being able to give a second chance to your own staff - for whom you take responsibility - and MP’s who have transgressed and who you suspect might be thrown out by the voters. Allowing those MP’s to stay in place - and be rejected at the ballot box - risks the ability of your party to form a majority. Sorry, but those guys can get no second chances from the Leader, much as they might bitch and moan. That would jeapordise the hard work of all those who have been - or have committed to be - untainted by sleazy money-grubbing.
215 - thanks, interesting. So the emphasis is very much on the here and now and what (the still new) Obama can do to help people, without there being much thought as to how it’s going to be paid for? Is that being save for Obama’s probable second term, or even for the president after that?
Thats for 231.
244 “Cameron to be PM for the next 75 years?!”
Boris will be pleased…
253 perhaps Boris is descended from Noah - he made it to 950 accoridng to
Hans Christian Andersenthe accurate data recorders of the Old Testament.236 I’m not sure what more Arnie could do. He tried to amend the constitution and got blown apart by Union opposition. He tried to adjust taxes and had that rejected by the voters as well. So much of the California budget is ring fenced by special popular votes that the system looks designed to destroy the State. The only glimmer is that some State Senator managed to slip a clause into last year’s Budget which takes state representatives redistricting out of the hands of any gerrymandering Party hacks and towards an independent panel which may help people to get elected other than the most left wing Democrats or most Conservative GOPer’s. That Senator may go down as California’s real action hero possibly.
Any truth to the rumour that the next Conservative Manifesto will have just 10 policies - and be on tablets of stone???
And I quite like the idea of him burning Bush.
What? Really?
Oh, that’s a pity….
249. Dyed in some wool somewhere, the fact of the matter is that some of the people Cameron cut adrift were accused of fairly trivial things, which weren’t even technical breaches of the rules. What Coulson is being accused of - and Cameron seems to concede that there’s something in it with his ’second chance’ line - is far graver. If that doesn’t amount to hypocrisy on Cameron’s part, I don’t know what does.
245. “Mind you Lord Mandelson might take issue with this, after last years comparison of gordon Brown to Moses”
What, leading them into the wilderness for 40 years?
252 The BBC never quite got Boris back to Noah in their episode of Who Do You Think You Are? (Although it was probably the best episode ever without Noah!)
I notice the BBC 6 News leads with dead soldiers instead of nasty Tories. I expect SO will write and complain…
Hich Starling takes Iain Dale to task for ignoring Norfolk Conservatives broken election promise re flood sirens . As Nich points out this was one of Iain’s strong interests when he was PPC in Norfolk North .
Leaflet count in Norwich North seems to now be LibDem 7 Con 6 Labour 2 UKIP 2 Greens still struggling to get out Leaflet 1 .
Some leaflets and above story here http://norfolkblogger.blogspot.com
Regarding Moses, someone should check and see if any of the PCP are descended from Joshua.
255 it all rather depends on what he means by ’second chance’ doesn’t it?
Apples and Eggs though - actions in a previous role for a different employer versus actions as a Tory MP.
Awkward position to take? yes, probably
Hypocrisy? No
It simply isn’t the case that one second chance = second chances all round.
259 Any thoughts on Newcastle North now Henderson is retiring.
Actually, if SeanT was around, I would have told him to go see Mount Nebo in Jordan, from where Moses first saw the Promised Land.
It’s a bit spesh in the spiritual stakes…
Has this Iain Dale link been posted
LD candidate for Norwich falsely claims she lives in the city and owns a moat.
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/07/april-pond-has-moat.html
262 Newcastle North was and is a banker LibDem gain in my book . It is by far the strongest of the 3 Newcastle seats for the LibDems . Newcastle East is a possibilty , Central a Labour hold .
258 Very bad news for the Forces in Afghanistan this evening. BBC News have just reported the death of another soldier, the tenth this week. ;-(
Mark Senior the 7th LD leaflet is to be delivered tomorrow. So to date it is just 6 all.
There’s a nice little ambush by Charles Clarke when Cameron visited Norwich today.
The BBC’s cameras were there to catch it all as you’d expect!
264 Harry Flashman, yes it would be ideal material for the Greens to use in their campaign agst the LDs but they seem to lack the leaflet capacity to deliver any.
264 Yes several times by various Conservative posters today . The fact that she did not make any false claims about living in Norwich does not seem to worry you Conservatives in your peddling of spin .
267 I believe the 7th LD leaflet started going out today .
If the Pond woman wins Norwich North will she defend it at the GE or chicken run to her original choice of Broadland?
270.
“it’s my patch”
“this is where I belong”
Semantics.
268 I would have thought Mr Clarke would have had enough confidence in the House of Commons Culture Committee to ask the right questions of Coulson directly, rather than go to Cameron for some stuff that may well be hearsay…
271 - I am sure an extra leaflet will make the difference(!)
253- The non-partisan redistricting panel is indeed a good development for the state of California, perhaps the only good recent development for the state. Fair or not, Arnie has been rejected as a failure by the people of his state.
275. “Only the LDs can stop the Greens coming 3rd here” ?
271 The voters absolutely hate these multiple leaflet drops, you know. It is just a reminder to them of how invisible the parties are the rest of the time….
It would be a more meaningful pledge to get the candidates to sign up to deliver no more than three different leaflets in the campaign.
249- Well, it would be great for Obama if he could ignore costs and deficits for eight years, but he won’t be able to manage it for anything near that period. Given the way things are going and given his plans right from the beginning, I expect deficits and tax increases to take center stage by the end of next year if Obama has his way, or by earlier than that if events force his hand.
271 Nich writes that it is tomorrow.
268 & 274 One could be forgiven for thinking that Clarke was using the Coulson story, and Camerons visit to Norwich as an excuse to raise his own profile in the media.
373 She was brought up in Norwich , most of her family live there , her children go to school there , her business is there - pretty strong semantics .
Veal soup? Not a culinary delight I’ve come across.
Sarah Brown is at it again
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1198858/I-hope-thats-veal-soup-Mrs-Brown-serves-charity-broth-refusing-eat-calves-meat-G8.html?ITO=1490
Marquee Mark July 10th, 2009 at 6:24 pm “271 The voters absolutely hate these multiple leaflet drops, you know. It is just a reminder to them of how invisible the parties are the rest of the time….”
At Crewe the LDs did tons and went backwards. But at least 3 is a minimum and the Greens do not seem to be able to do that.
280 No he wrote that yesterday so tomorrow is today LOL
284 I’d like to receive just one LD leaflet - only kidding
278 - You say people hate multiple leaflet drops, but it’s hardly apparent from actual election results. I suspect more often they mean they hate getting leaflets from parties they don’t like. But that’s tough.
If you’re correct, however, you don’t need a “pledge” signed by all candidates. You just need to do it yourself. I think you’d lose, but it would be amusing enough.
282. Moats for the many, not the few…
Perhaps just a few people feel that a Mandy inspired “hacking” plot to diffuse the “Gordon tells lies” story is a bit rich coming from a Party that wants to listen to all our phone conversations, read all our emails and video our every movement.
John L
Re: “just remember it was the Private Sector that Tanked the economy”
Are you living in cyber space ? It’s the continual funding of the ever increasing public sector that’s swallowed our taxes! Go and have a lie dowm or read a copy of the latest Labour Relaunch MK 1005, that will soon send you off to dreamland… Idiot..
282, shame her family or children aren’t standing then.
For what it’s worth, learning a prospective MP has a moat would make me more, not less, inclined to vote for them.
I’d love to have a moat.
286
LD’s 7th leaflet…., what have they got to say!!!1. Its not very green wasting all that paper whilst world resources are so scarce. Almost as scarce as anything truthful in the leaflets themselves.
292. The candidate can point to Norwich on a map - look.
She likes it so much she wanted to stand for the constituency next door.
“Ms Wade, who is currently editor of the Sun but will take on the News International post in September, said the company believed the Guardian coverage had substantially - and likely deliberately - misled the British public.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8145245.stm
That sounds like some fighting words
Popcorn, beer, comfortable chair…..
Another soldier died today - 3 today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8145364.stm
280 - It started going out today. I’ve alreayd got mine.
The thing that people have to realise about Norwich North is that the Labour campaign is truly awful. Not a candidate to inspire. Terrible leaflets going out slowly (two delivered and one freepost received today). The Freepost was like something from 1992. Just SO poor. But more than that, the Labour vote locally was a Gibson vote. This vote is largely unprepared to vote for Labour and that is what throws this election up.
Now if the Greens had run half a campaign then this would have been a toss up as to who comes second, but the Green campaign is almost non existent so the Lib Dems are mopping up support that might have gone their way. Large swathes of Norwich North have yet to receive a Green poster. In my area, not a single Green leaflet but one Green poster board. Crazy !!
294.I was just going to post a link to that BBC article, it makes for interesting reading. Sounds like NI are coming out fighting, pass me the popcorn.
Oh 264, she never claimed to live in the city. You must learn to read !
294 Oracle - Yes. Indeed one of the most entertaining bits of the story has been the outrage regarding the alleged hacking into Ms Wade’s messages.
I’m sure that pubs up and down the country are full of people really angry at this ‘tabloid hacks hack tabloid hack’ scandal.
Battles over whose candidate is the most local are for bloody morons.
295, it’s very sad. I wonder if it’s sheer bad luck or if there’s been an increased number or power of the IEDS.
294, it will be interesting to watch.
295.Just seen the ITN news, Brown banging on about a billion on vehicles, yeah where and when Gordon? A bit vague and no mention of the appalling lack of helicopters, a problem flagged up years ago.
Ainsworth very poor when interviewed, and Alastair Stewart reminding me why he is good at what he does.
297 - Certainly no mincing of word, “deliberately misled the public”, Big Rup clearly not taking any s##t from the Guardianistas and ordered the minions to fire back!
If she knows the truth about who did how much phone hacking - how come Coulsen says he did not know anything about it when he was in charge ?
301 They are conducting fairly intensive operations. The IEDS are constantly getting bigger and bigger. More armour? Bigger bomb.
282
Is that the reason why April Pond/ Moat won’t sign the ‘clean campaign pledge’?
I can imagine it’s a bit tricky to have a slogan ‘From Norwich,For Norwich’only to be rumbled that you live miles away.
More Balls, via Dizzy:
http://dizzythinks.net/2009/07/saddest-tweet-of-day-award-ed-balls-mp.html
304. See 231…
300. Agreed. A candidate who is, in traditional medical parlance, ‘Normal for Norfolk’, wouldn’t necessarily be a good MP.
305, couldn’t we fly criminals over there and have them drive ahead of the servicemen? I’m sure we could provide suitable armour for the convicts. 2CVs, perhaps.
301.”295, it’s very sad. I wonder if it’s sheer bad luck or if there’s been an increased number or power of the IEDS.”
The taliban spotted a weakness in the British military operation and targeted it very effectively. Poorly armored vehicles, and a lack of helicopters, which meant that we had to transport our troops, supplies and ammunition by road in large numbers.
304. i keep hearing about phone hacking, but all i have read of is people being able to access voicemail because some dumb muppets havent changed the default. That is not phone hacking, and while tawdry, isnt really any worse then riffling through someone’s rubbish bin.
LabourList proves it hasn’t lost that leftwing lunacy, with the overpowering stench of class warfare and envy:
http://www.labourlist.org/new-statesman-why-maam-must-go-republic-monarchy
311 - So IEDS are just targeting British troops?
Or you are trying to make a cheap point.
Probably the latter as IEDs were responsible for forty per cent of US deaths in Iraq.
314, probably?
I wonder if anyone has stats for the relative proportion of IED deaths for the US and UK forces.
312 You are in fact saying that if you leave a window open in your home and get burgled , the burgler is not commiting a crime .
I think the town of Wooton Basset should be given a recognition for the extremely dignified way the people have marked the return home of our dead soldiers. Royal Wooton Basset, anyone?
316 Well the insurance company wouldn’t pay out, on the basis that you were too bloody stupid…
316. No, just that the crime is in fact burglary and not attempted murder. Your comparison would be fairer if you described an unlocked door, rather then window. All fairly trivial in the kind of things an investigative journalist get up to.
Mark Senior who is taked with writing the 8th Nowich leaflet, and about what?
oops …Norwich
314.Tim, nasty and unwarranted smear while we are discussing a very series issue which is killing many British soldiers! Please withdraw it.
Brown is a f*cking disgrace for appointing someone as shite as Bob Ainsworth to the important role of Minister of Defence. If he can’t find better ministerial material than that, he should be calling an election to let the voters appoint some who are up to the task.
322 Tim is always posting nasty and unwarranted smears, its what he does. Odious just doesnt cover it.
306. JohnF July 10th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
I am glad she has got rumbled for lying to people! - She should get Nill Votes for that!
Lds cleaning up politics by Lying etc! 
It saddens me how one pious pweson on here has tried lecturing me on my websites exposing LD lies! Maybe some folk think the LD Nazi tag OTT but it exposes the truth that the lovely LDs are far from from nice and operate in a way that soils politics.
Maybe I as someone who is not a member of a political party and basically nothing to lose can do it!
237 - According to the latest polls Jerry Brown is ahead in California despite being over 70! As for cap and trade according to a recent ABC News poll 56% support it even if it means their own bills rise by 10 dollars a month, so it would not seem that unpopular outside the Rustbelt!
320. Like all lib dem leaflet writers, we can be assured that Mark Senior has passed his Bar Chart Proficiency Test.
Afghanistan = Iraq soldier death toll.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/5797747/Afghanistan-death-toll-now-level-with-Iraq-war.html
313
Isn’t that well known lefty Murdoch a republican? Cameron can’t be bothered, he’s happy to hire a man linked to hacking Royal phones.
Any way Charles is a socialist.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/just-96-months-to-save-world-says-prince-charles-1738049.html
329.
How have the phones being hacked, was there more then the voicemail? Voicemail is not stored on the phone, but on the network providers server, it is the server that is being hacked not the phone.
329. Coulson didn’t hack anybodys phone, but don’t let that stop you.
325
You could certainly say thet where she lives on the Suffolk border is rather remoat from Norwich.
330
Whatever! it must have been upsetting for our own dear Queen, (gawd bless ‘yer ma’am) to know someone might have listened to her conversations.
‘Ok got that, yes that’s a treble’
I think that Labour will come to regret taking on Coulson and News International. What muppets
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/christopherhope/100002849/rupert-murdoch-to-back-david-cameron-at-next-general-election-exclusive/
326 - Oh dear, does this mean that if Governor Moonbeam wins we have to listen to Lind Ronstadt songs again, and get an infestation of fruit flies? :-)?
322 - You claim the IED tactic is specifically designed in response to the British Army’s equipment,
then explain why US troop deaths from IEDs have also risen.
When you have I’ll take your “argument” seriously.
332. It is just out of order - The whole LD party stinks to high heaven - what puzzles me is LDs seem that impressed with their own propoganda and seem to think that others will as well!
It is just fifth rate campaigning! Bad for Politics.
Another Lame Duck - Roland Burris
A few days ago, S&S speculated on GOP prospects of picking up Barack Obama’s former US Senate seat from Illinios, thanks to presence of appointed Sen. Roland Burris in the Senate and on the 2010 ballot.
Well, the first point still holds, but NOT the second. Because new organizations are reporting that Buriss is going to announce today (if he hasn’t done so already) that he’s NOT going to be a candidate in 2010.
Why. Because he can’t raise any money. Why? Not just because he’s an admitted perjurer and obvious horse’s asss. But because Black Chicago is NOT standing in his corner. Indeed, they’ve made it very clear that Burris is quite expendible. And so there was zero downside to opposing him.
Wonder is IL Attorney Gen. Madigan is kicking herself for taking herself out of the race? My guess is that she knew Burris was toast anyway so he had zero impact on her own decision.
330 The voicemail server isn’t hacked as such. I guess the various celebrities and pompous politicos who have had their voicemail intercepted are either too stupid or consider themselves too important to bother with such trivialities as changing the access code from the default to something more difficult to guess. Whoever has listened in, has simply dialled up the mobile, tried 1234 or 0000 and hit the jackpot.
337 More libellous comments from the man with a false poster name . Time to sign off , hope all have a good weekend .
339. Quite. It probably breaks one of the many thousand stasi like laws controlling our every behaviour and thought that have been introduced over the last decade, but it aint the end of the world.
This is rather amusing - Sarko loves the ladies
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/07/when-in-rome.html
315 - http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-04-02-IEDs_N.htm
WASHINGTON — Roadside bombs cause 75% of casualties to coalition forces in Afghanistan, up from 50% two years ago, prompting urgent pleas from commanders there for more armored vehicles to protect troops, according to data and interviews
Anyone claiming, like the poster at 311 did, that the IEDs are a specific response to a British equipment shortage are either ignorant, or seeking to use British Troops deaths for a partisan political reason.
338- I mentioned this earlier today. Burris’ decision to withdraw from the contest does make life easier for the cavalcade of Dems who will try to take the seat, but not a lot easier; they will still have to battle amongst themselves, and the dragon slayer of the bunch will not be running (Ms. Madigan). Thus, you’ll have Rep. Kirk up against a lesser luminary of the Democratic Party. I mentioned above that I see this contest as a toss-up now, whereas it would have been “leans Dem” if Madigan had gotten into the race.
340. Bye.
335 - you either live in a time warp (like so many pbers) OR just haven’t been paying attention to news from Cali for the past twenty years.
Did you know that Jerry Brown is former presidential candidate, former Mayor of Oakland and current CA Attorney General? Or do you still prefer your out-dated sneers?
Personally am not a big Jerry Brown fan, but he deserve better than snide cluelessness.
339 - Does Boris fall into that category?
On News International, why don’t they just release the court papers in the Gordon Taylor case if they have nothing to hide?
347, nothing to hide nothing to fear?
I wonder why Prescott’s so upset when he was a senior member of a Government that intruded ever more into the private business of its citizens. I suppose Labour will be scrapping the Communications database now.
326- The center-left Dems must not believe too strongly in the popularity of cap-and-trade come next November given that so many of them voted against it.
334. I think Murdoch was always going to come out and support Cameron. And I don’t think Murdoch supporting Cameron is that significant, really.
What will be significant will be the hugely anti-Labour stance of all the NI political reporting over the next 10 months.
350 - Presumably Camerons attacks on the BBC and OFCOM this week were a part of the whole.
300. Agreed. A candidate who is, in traditional medical parlance, ‘Normal for Norfolk’, wouldn’t necessarily be a good MP.
Given that his parents are likely to have been brother and sister, I’d agree.
351. Personally I doub’t it.
The BBC attack is because theres a long history of animosity between and Tories and the BBC going right back to the Falklands. Theres a lot of old scores to settle there. The BBC will take many beatings at the hands of the Conservatives over the next few years.
As far as OFFCOM is concerned I’ve no idea.
Murdoch: “I like Brown alot”
When asked what he thought of Cameron: “Not Much”
Bwaaaaahahahhaa, Murdoch is a *ucking prick. The day that anti-English scumbag dies will be glorious. (Note to future politians, don’t allow any more media to be sold do dickhead Aussies and other foreigners!)
NEWS
Met Police now contacting hacking victims.
I wonder if Oik will get a call?
…An Essex man has died of swine flu - but suffered no underlying health conditions, it has been confirmed today…
and tone from Health Authorities changing:
…“As with all flu like viruses, some people are at higher risk than others. Unfortunately, people who are otherwise healthy could also become seriously ill or, sadly, die…
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=IPED10%20Jul%202009%2017%3A58%3A03%3A320
343. No. IEDS are more effective due to the fact that that there arent enough heavy choppers to move people by air.
It happened in NI when they went by vehicle in some areas so they moved by air. Casualties in border areas began to fall.
Military fact: The Taliban have easier targets if people move by road vehicle. They are bigger, easier to hit and the Taliban can choose their spots to leave the bombs.
They might ring you Tim!
350 “And I don’t think Murdoch supporting Cameron is that significant, really.”
Just wait until you see what an unleashed Sun will be capable of doing to this Govt. I really can’t wait for the fun they are going to have… The most effective weapon against the po-faced Brown and his politically correct cohorts is to make him a figure of utter ridicule. The Sun staff must be salivating about a return to the days of Lightbulb Kinnock…
“Every decision Brown takes is always the wrong one” will be written into political history.
356 So why are the heavy Merlin helicopters from RAF Benson spending all their time flying around my house and not doing the job they are supposed to be doing, over in Helmand? Tell me that, Bob Ainsworth, supposed “Minister for Defence”.
358. Oh indeed. The damage The Sun will do to Labour will be far, far significant than them just supporting Cameron come general election day. The Sun’s support is over-rated, but you certainly don’t want them as your enemy.
360. Who knows.
349. I’m glad your about Stars and Stripes,
Could you please find anything broadcast in the last year on CNN or MSNBC which so distorted a Republican’s words as Sean Hannity does in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP14yxx8wEE
I know you’re a decent guy, so I’m sure you will admit Sean Hannity is clearly an unethical, biased and partisan hack.
356 - All of that is true, and applies across coalition forces in Afghanistan and indeed in Iraq before it.
To argue that it is a specific Taliban tactic aimed at British troops in Afghanistan is cheap and/or ignorant.
Can we have a whole thread on the merits of the LibDem candidate for North Norfolk please?
Personally I don’t give two hoots whether someone is remote, moated, demoted or demented. I just want to wind up Mark Senior.
324.MTF, I just spent the six months over the winter worrying myself sick that my brother would be one of the tragically unlucky soldiers that was hit by an IED whilst in a vehicle or on foot patrol on the front line in Helmand. For him to then reduce that terrible worrying time to an accusation that I was making a cheap point is thoroughly sickening to be honest. Another family member had already lost a relative to an IED a few months earlier.
I simple made a valid and relevant point in reply to another poster’s query, I was specifically pointing out the problem for the British soldiers in Helmand.
343.”Anyone claiming, like the poster at 311 did, that the IEDs are a specific response to a British equipment shortage are either ignorant”
This is what I posted, “The taliban spotted a weakness in the British military operation and targeted it very effectively. Poorly armored vehicles, and a lack of helicopters, which meant that we had to transport our troops, supplies and ammunition by road in large numbers.”
This poster seems to think that is not a relevant point to make in the current circumstances, and that therefore I must be ignorant and now ignored on the subject. My interest and concerns about what is going on in Afghanistan have always been for personal reasons, rather than political. Goodnight all.
183. Remind me, what is Obama’s approval rating again?
356 - Whether the recent deaths during the ground assault could be avoided by heavy choppers being used, it is too early to tell.
366 - And US troops face the same risk.
Arguing that it is a response to a specifically British equipment situation does no one any good
368. Well no it isnt too early to tell. Road transport should be avoided. A number of casualties have been hit in ground vehcile attacks when clearly if there were more choppers theyd have used them instead. Proportionately the Brits have less choppers than the Americans per combat soldier in the field so face adiitional risk and potentially greater casualties.
Armies always need more of something so commanders will always request more, this is nothing new, but the Brits are short compared to the Yanks.
As far as I can see phones have not been hacked - users have been lax about their security - a bit like reporters rummaging in dustbins. And of course none of this has been done by Coulson. The Graham Taylor issues was done whilst another (labour leaning) editor was in charge. Why are labour not calling for him to be sacked.
369 - And the Taliban use the same tactics against both, as did the insurgents in Iraq.
Thats the point.
368. How exactly does a US trooper in a helicopter face the same risk from a roadside IED as a UK soldier in a Land Rover?
364. You surely agree that nearly eight years since the first British soldier set foot in Afghanistan that it is a disgrace that our armed forces do not have adequate numbers of helicopters and armoured vehicles.
Labour talk big but their commitment to the UK military is unacceptably bad.
A good example, Chinooks delivered in 2002, stored for six years, buggered around with at great expense, first flight last month.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/07/07/329346/picture-rafs-first-chinook-hc3-flies-after-reversion.html
That is simply disgraceful.
370. Absolutely but if you have more of the right gear you reduce the risk. The Brits have less of the right gear. Ask them or ask the Yanks.
368.
But you would say that you little creep because its Labour thats being blamed. Go and crawl back under your stone you add nothing but endless drivel to PB…….
368
Tim of course it does good because it highlights we are trying to fight a war on a cut budget, you can’t do that.
You ought to apologise to Christina D too, if you havent already
368.
And take this under your stone with you..
“There is a new ComRes poll up for the BBC’s daily politics. It has David Cameron being rated as being more open and honest than Gordon Brown”
360 Marquee Mark, those Merlins are probably engaged in training new or existing pilots or have been tasked to another role in the UK or Europe. They can’t all be shipped out to Afghanistan.
Mike,
Tims comments are discrace to our serving soldiers in Afghanistan… He deserves a rocket.
368 The person making cheap political points is you Tim.
British casualty rate is, as I believe the Telegraph published recently, higher than that of the US though finding out the true figures is very difficult as regards UK forces as the MoD does not publish them in a transparent manner and battlefield treatments which do not require wounded troops to be repatriated are not collated in a form available to the press.
What the f**k the lack of battlefield helicopters, delay in providing good mine-proof vehicles and the fact the Taliban have recognised this weakness have to do with what the US, Italian, German or Fijian defence departments provide? Its the British Army, funded by the British Government that I’m concerned about and too many of our soldiers are dying and being permanently disabled because of the lack of the right equipment.
378 - Anyone claiming that the tactics employed by the Taliban are specifically geared to fight the British because of our equipment is a “disgrace” and/or ignorant.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-04-02-IEDs_N.htm
new thread
364 & 368 ‘To argue that it is a specific Taliban tactic aimed at British troops in Afghanistan is cheap and/or ignorant.’
What’s cheap about it? The uncomfortable truth is that British troops are being turned into mincemeat by the Taliban, who are having a field day picking off soldiers forced to travel on the ground due to a lack of helicopter support. There would be significantly fewer deaths were this equipment available. Whether this is down to pi$$ poor procurement by the MoD or budgetary control by HMG is another argument.
Who is going to waste leaflet space smearing the LD candidate because she lives outside of the constituency? The Conservatives will not bother, the Greens seem incapable of delivering leaflets which leaves Labour who might be tempted to smear the LDs to avoid dropping to 3rd/4th.
379.
Well said Ted.
380 Here’s a thread that might give you a bit more insight into the problem, from the people actually doing the flying in those dangerous places -
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/380636-fury-def-sec-over-helicopter-shortage-4.html
380. Tim repeating crap and smears does not make them right. ChristinaD specifically said “British Military Operation” as in move forces, supplies, munitions by land rather than air. The result of these operations is that more deaths are caused by IED’s particularly because the equipment used is not suitable against the IED’s (along with that of other countries) The US has reduced the effectiveness by 20% recently. UK will not release figures to see how we are doing.
386 - You’re missing the point.
The argument that the Taliban “saw an opportunity” against the British Forces is the crap argument.
They are following the same tactics used against the US in Iraq and in Afghanistan
386 fitaloon, with regard to any discussion about the Armed Forces, tim should be classed as a Fifth Columnist. Quite simply he’s one of the ‘Enemy Within’, and should be treated with the contempt he deserves.
388 - Bovine as ever Ed.
Stick to the films.
387 Why is it crap, we move the equipment by land rather than air so they take advantage of this weakness. British/American/Canadian all do this but the point was that the Taliban see this as an opportunity. If we didn’t move by land then they couldn’t attack convoys. Meanwhile we will spend money on building Ferris Wheels rather than rebuilding bridges to support heavier MRAP vehciles.
389 Run out of smear? Sticks and stones may break my bones…
344 - sorry I missed your previous post re: Roland Burris and 2010 Illinois US Senate race, S&S. Agree with what you say about IL situation.
Including that Democratic nomination is indeed a tossup, and eventual D nominee will have a tough row to how. Also that likely Republican nominee is the GOP’s best hope.
However, you may underestimate (slightly) the degree to which removing Sen. Burris helps lessen state & national Democratic embarrasment over his presence.
Of course he’s still our cross to bear. But at least he’s limited our exposure a wee bit. Whereas for GOP is still “Republican Governors and Senators Gone Wild”