Continuation thread from the Bedford count
October 16th, 2009
Labour in fifth place
Lots of rumours about the Bedford result and it does look like a run-off for second places.
For comparison purposes this was one estimate of the aggregate split when voting for the unitary authority took place in June.
Con - 18060 - 35.66% - All wards contested
LD - 12851 - 25.37% - All wards
Lab - 9320 - 18.40% - All wards
Ind - 7767 - 15.34% - 13 wards
UKIP - 1227 - 2.42% - 3 wards
Green - 1121 - 2.21% - 5 wards
BNP - 299 - 0.59% - 1 ward
All parties seem to be down.
More later from the Bedford Corn Exchange.
UPDATE
First round votes -
CON 9105
Bagchi IND 7631
IND 4316
LD 9428
GRN 1183
LAB 3482
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
Don’t let the Yellow Peril win!
ME!
first
2 I’m my own second preference
If y’all check my Facebook, you’ll see I am friends with Mr Randy Bumgardner.
He wins at names.
1. Given that the vote has closed, what methods do you suggest be deployed at this stage?
FPT:549: Top row, 3 along would have to be my porn-star name if I entered into that business
Demetrius Breedlove Oh yeah….
6 - Get some electoral observers in from Zimbabwe and Afghanistan.
7, alas, I suspect your medical ailment would preclude entry into the carnal business to which you refer. On the other hand, a slack bladder might not be an impairment in certain niche circles.
Surely the Tories here will now be conceding defeat, as they have always argued that second preferences arent as valid in elections? When is the CPHQ concession?
7 - Also for funny names, a client of ours recently went into administration, and i received a letter from this guy, who was one of the offical administrators.
http://www.bwc-solutions.com/partner_details/cv_david.htm
Indy vote looks very high, was it a Hangus the monkey type? I think that is about the level of seriousness with which all mayoral elections should be imbued frankly.
Because we need more layers of government don’t we? The more the merrier…
6 antifrank - The usual ones, of course.
Nice blog from Shane Greer demolishing hate-filled homophobic twathole Jan Moir:
http://www.shanegreer.com/2009/10/16/daily-mail-daily-hate/
If Labour really have trailed in fifth, that is an astounding result in a town where they currently hold the constituency at Westminster.
10
No, they have argued against the system . However, with the system in place, people’s first preferences may have been affected, so counting only 1st prefs where 2nd prefs are allowed doesn’t make sense.
I would have voted Hangus the Monkey 1st, tory second probably
13 - Is there enough muesli to make a pentacle big enough to cover the whole of Bedford?
567 - how do you generate the accent (which I presume isn’t called a circumplex in Welsh)?
On the subject of the end of the last thread:
http://chavstest.com/quiz/index.php
I am pleased to report that I got exactly zero points.
15. Astounding? You honestly didn’t see this coming?
5. Thought you best friend was Drew Peacock?
7 - and to generate one, use:
- your first pet’s name
- your mother’s maiden name
5: Speaking of facebook, I’m friends with Annunziata Rees-Mogg
*cue tim incoming in 3….2…*
The Indy who came third is most likely Apu Bagchi, who one local hack described as an “old labour dinosaur” IIRC, but who OGH tipped at 66/1. He went off at 8/1 and appears to have done remarkably well.
11 I had a friend [who thought he was David Bowie's alter ego - honestly] called Mark Cocking.
He actually worked in a bank and at the age of 25 still pretended to his parents that he didn’t smoke
FPT Peter the Punter “Oh my God, no. Does it really look as though Mike’s pony tail will be extra bushy tomorrow, Jack?”
If the Lib Dems win I imagine Mike might try and advise the new Mayor to invest in folicular restoratitive treatments for the new regimes favourites :
“Lib Dems Winning Hair”
FPT - Casino Royale, believe it or not, I found that link whilst trying to find out what a chinge was.
I’m 26% chav. MAN OF THE PEOPLE.
14 - shameful article, I hope the family sue.
18 Tabman, see
http://www.starr.net/is/type/htmlcodes.html
for every accent you could ever need
Looks like whatever residual Labour vote was left has gone to the LDs.
If this is replicated around the UK then the LDs on the spread mkts must be a buy around the 51/52 area.
24 he was effectively the successor candidate to the previous Mator wasn’t he? And had Martin Bell’s support.
19. Should have got zero. But own brand baked beans are cheaper and I had a few pot noodles at university!!
Not a perfect test though. It seems the last question would give 93% of the population Chav Points.
506 Morris D (last thread)
“The ‘original’ name trying to show the parent is creative and the child is unique, but actually shows the aprent is a moron who called their son Chandelier Floppy-Chops and ensures the child gets bullied for life.”
As I have some experience in this area (ahem), I can say I disagree - get given a ludicrous name (I’m Hopi Newmoon Sen. I mean, really!) and it has two effects - first people always remember you, even if you do nothing of any particular note. Second is that you learn not to get upset by normal teasing and so on.
I can honestly say I would rather have a freakish name than a normal one. If I had children I’d absolutely inflict something similar on them.
It’d have to be proper weird though, not Jocasta Fairydust, or something, and there has to be _some_ justification for it. (In my case, I reckon it’s a product of sustained and wonderful miscegenation, which gives you a bit more room for creativity because that avoids having to choose a name of one particular cultural heritage.)
Mayor/Mator!
Gordon Brown has just told a lie on Mumsnet
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/843674-Gordon-Brown-on-Mumsnet-this-Friday-16th-October-lunchtime-between
Chav test is flawed:
“Question: Do you have “tea” as your evening meal?”
I think it’s about 50/50 in Yorkshire as to whether you call it dinner or tea.
19 Mr Nabavi - that is very funny!
Loved this “Question: Do you own those socks that are cut off below the ankle so it looks like you aren”t wearing any?”
WTF?
@34:
I think, despite what you claim on your blog, that I’d always assumed that Hopi Sen was an Internet pseudonym.
I’d never even considered it may really have been your actual name.
I presume your parents were hippies?
35 Thanks. I was wondering…
574.572.Peter the Punter refers above to the birth of pb.com.
Around 2004 I noticed this new poster ‘mikeS’ or something like that who just seemed totally different class to all but a handful of posters on Betfair Politics.
You have to remember that at that time there were a handful of great posters such as our very own Aaron and the mighty Golfjudge.
At the same time there were numerous mindless morons who would insist on interrupting.
Needless to say URW would complain ceaselessly about this and how triviality was infecting our forum.
One day……the day of the 2004 Presidential Election, the triviality got to Mike Smithson and he broke away from Betfair Politics to found this great forum.
Class,dismiss !
37 M Dancer. In some areas ‘high tea’ and ’supper’ still make an appearance.
34, I’m glad you were not adversely affected by bullying. But do you think taking a course of action that would guarantee your children would be bullied as you were without the certainty they would react as well as you did is wise?
I had some unpleasant moments at school. I would not risk inflicting them on a child of mine. (It wasn’t due to my name, incidentally).
38: My wife brought some for me….oh the shame.
36. Mumsnet is quite left-wing.
42, surely everyone has supper?
28
Consider surgery.
@38:
Like all chavware, low socks were designed for sportspeople.
That’s the thing about dressing as a chav, you must only buy from shops where clothing is sold under the bizarre pretence that it will be used in sports, when the closest it will ever come is being used to mop up a spilt can of wifebeater when you’re watching England V Belarus on your 52” Plasma TV.
Ahem,
Mike, that ‘analysis’ looks like mine:
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/09/25/is-this-where-gord-is-being-interviewed-for-his-next-job/#comment-1229256
I bet on the tory on the back of it. Whoops.
36 To be fair to Gordon*
His sight might not have deteriorated - even though the physical state of his eye might have…
(*that isn’t going to get an outing again….)
Further to 19: In the interests of full disclosure, I should add that, since taking the test a while ago, I have been shopping at our local Coop. This indicates not that I have become more chavish, but that the Coop is moving upmarket.
45. Having said that..
I WANT TO PLAY
Questions for Gordon anyone?
52 Has he bought a rocking horse for…er.. the kids?
50 Marquee Mark
Good spot. I’m normally quite good at picking up political “wiggle room” speak, but missed that subtlety.
53, how many nappies does he get through, compared to the children?
38 - I do, which I bought myself. I’m 22% chav.
43. I wasn’t bullied. Might have een because I was a reasonably sturdy youth, but also poss because in an diverse school in Nottingham, I don’t really think people like Jitinder, Marlon, Earl, Raj (some of the bigger lads at my school) really cared whether my name was “normal”.
I did get teased, of course, and the fact my first name and surname make a rather unfortunate anagram was hilarious for a while. But Marcus got it much worse just for being skinny…
48. Takes one to know one Mr. TWENTY-SIX PERCENT.
Don’t you have park bench to vandalise or something?
14 - yes, that article was vile - and Shane’s response is fantastic.
Equally revolting were some of the comments on the last PB thread re Mandelson.
I’m 11% chav - I bought a KFC family bucket in my 30s
This has got to be the most misleading (and disappointing) headline ever on the BBC website
Scots facing slow death - Smith
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/8310300.stm
57 - iPhones?
And if the twitter/facebook rumours are true, the very rough approx 1st prefs are
LD 28%
Con 27 %
Ind 21%
Ind 12%
Lab 9% !!!!!!!!!
Grn 3%
57: anagram of Hopi Sen….answers on a postcard please
Ah…worked it out
lol. I see Wilders has arrived in London. To make him feel welcome, a bunch of fake Muslims have apparently staged a bogus demonstration, designed to make the Dutchman seem reasonable, if not far-sighted.
“Wilders’ press conference was moved inside amid angry scenes, with demonstrators chanting “Wilders go to hell”.
“About 40 Muslim protesters gathered outside the Abbey Gardens buildings, opposite the Houses of Parliament, where the hastily rearranged press conference was held. Held back by a police line, and surrounded by camera crews from around the world, they chanted slogans and held up placards saying: “Sharia for the Netherlands” and “Islam will be superior”.
“One protester, Sayful Islam, said they wanted to see Mr Wilders “tried in an Islamic court” for “insulting the Prophet”, adding: “We need to put this dog on a leash”.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8308982.stm
What, you’re telling me these are REAL Muslims?
Oh.
59 plato. Where is this chav test ?? …. does it indicate minus scores ??
53/55. lol!
Sadly, it’s the usual BS from Brown. Lots of “in 1997 this was X, it is now Y”.
That said, in places he does seem marginally more human than normal.
Which makes me wonder if it is really him typing it..
67 - Of course Brown isn’t really typing it. I doubt he’s even in the same room as the person doing it for him.
66 - Here you go Jack.
Sadly it doesnt do minus scores
http://chavstest.com/quiz/index.php
69 Scream. Thank you. I shall report back my white sox rating !!
66 http://chavstest.com/quiz/index.php
I is 13% Chav…. Does it show?
I blame the local corner shop for being a CoOp, having a pot noodle 14 odd years ago and knowing a sad idiot aged 47 going through what is best describe as a mid-life crisis.
And from the locals that would equate to the following share change
LD +3
Con -9
Ind +6
Ind +12
Lab -9
Grn +1
So labour and tory votes going to independents. UKIP/BNP didn’t bother this time and got 3% between them at the locals.
*if the rumoured figures are trueish.
Cor, I got 59% on that test. Tea, socks and state education did me in. Also, what’s wrong with the co-op?
68 - Liam Byrne ?
I’m 11% Chav, all because I once shopped in Iceland.
69 - Jack W might have a positive score - he may have worn a burberry check?
72 Chicken and Mushroom Pot Noodles are the devil’s spawn as far as I’m concerned - my ex used to *like* them.
URGH
I couldn’t be in the same room, they smelt like old socks.
19% Chav. In my defence, my white Reebok Classics are IRONIC.
22% Chav!!!
Not sure that using coupons froma magazine counts though does it? Just makes me financially savvy…er, maybe..?
65. Unbelievable.
So, once again, a group of unrepresentative shrill hyper-emotional protestors reinforce the prejudices they are trying to combat rather than undermine them.
Idiots.
71 I scored 15% because I buy my Sunday papers at the Coop, eat own brand baked beans and always take the shampoo from my hotel room if it is a decent quality. In the Apex hotels one also gets a little plastic duck to take home!!!
65. Extremists are all publicity hounds. You think anyone would write articles about them if their signs said “We respectifully disagree with Mr Wilders view of Islam”?
Nah, Wilders and the Islamic extremists have one thing in common, they want a culture war. They’re not really demonstrating against Wilders, they’re piggybacking for attention.
22% Chav, but the hotel shampoo was from the Hotel Scribe in Paris, where George Orwell washed up, and he was an Old Etonian.
I demand a recount.
Gordon has given no answer to this question:
“Hello Prime Minister
What do you consider to be your single greatest achievement as prime minister?
Thank you”
65 - It’s progress. A few years ago they wanted to behead and massacre anyone who dared to criticise Islam. Now they want to try them.
It’s progress I tell you.
I LOL at this one - “Have you ever worn gold jewellery from Elizabeth Duke at Argos?”
It is quite brilliant observation of upmarket chav shopping.
Actually Sharia Law should be used on petrol head chav boy racers.
77 anti.
…. True !!!!!!!!! 4% rating for owning a Burberry raincoat.
By GordonBrown Fri 16-Oct-09 13:56:24 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster
To everyone asking why they should vote Labour:
At the next election the country faces a big choice - the biggest of a generation. Last month at Labour Party conference I laid out Labour’s ambitions for Britain - building a new economy that tames the old excesses of a risky bonus culture, meeting and mastering the challenge of an ageing society with a National Care Service as a partner to the National Health Service, beating cancer in this generation, transforming politics with a right for you to recall your MP and a referendum on a new voting system and the house of Lords. The election to come will not be about my future – it’s about your future. Your job. Your home. Your children’s school. Your hospital. Your community. Your country. The opposition talk about change - but the question isn’t whether the country needs to change - it’s how. So when they say they represent change, ask yourself this - is that change that will benefit my family, or only a privileged few?
If you’re a family that’s feeling the pinch – don’t take it from me – just ask them the question. How can you say “we’re all in this together” when you would scrap tax credits for middle income families at the same time as giving a 200 thousand pound tax giveaway to each of the 3,000 wealthiest estates?
If you want to help your kids save for their future, just ask the question. If you care about us, why would you make a family on just over £16,000 a year, with two kids, miss out on £1,000 in Child Trust Fund payments to their children?
And if you’re one of the millions of Britons who loves our NHS– don’t take it from me – just ask them the question. If you care about us, why would you scrap the right to see a cancer specialist within two weeks?
And if you’re worried about crime – don’t take it from me – just ask them the question. Why would you cut the Home Office budget by the equivalent of 3,500 police officers this year alone and then make it harder for them to catch the most violent criminals using DNA evidence?
And if you care about a proud Britain – don’t take it from me – just ask them the question. Why would you put this country’s prosperity and power at risk by placing Britain at the fringe of Europe rather than at its heart?
Ask them; how can you deliver change when you so clearly haven’t even changed your own party? ”
I saw “wealthiest estates”.
FI. FIE. FO. FUM. I smell the work of a tim-bo man.
89 - That accounts for 4% of my score. The other 18%… well, some things must remain secret.
The new Gordon Brown soundbite: don’t take it from me – just ask them the question
From this answer
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/843674-Gordon-Brown-on-Mumsnet-this-Friday-16th-October-lunchtime-between
79. Chime! I am also 19% chav. I have eaten own brand baked beans, I went to a comp, I have stolen hotel shampoo (everyone steals hotel shampoo - stupid question), I once ate a pot noodle (once, of course) and I have several times shopped at the co-op (sometimes hard to avoid in Cornwall)
I should add that for several years I wore white socks (ironically!) and my daughter has started saying “pardon” and “lounge”, despite my best efforts to counteract the influence of her childminders.
But the test is also chavvy in itself. “Evening meal” has to be the chavviest phrase in the language (and “supper” is actually posh, as any fule kno).
Three Counties Radio confirming Lib Dem and Tories into the play-off.
74. Well, they donate to the Labour Party and irritate the nation with the Bob Dylan track on their adverts for a start.
FPT on Sassenach/Saxon
I think the English and Scots meaning of the words are more likely to be derived from Old Norse than modern Estonian:
Saxon
1297, from L.L. Saxonem (nom. Saxo), usually found in pl. Saxones, from P.Gmc. *sakhsan (cf. O.E. Seaxe, O.H.G. Sahsun, Ger. Sachse “Saxon”), with a possible literal sense of “swordsmen” (cf. O.E. seax, O.Fris., O.N. sax “knife, short sword, dagger,” perhaps ult. from PIE root of saw (1)). The word figures in the well-known story, related by Geoffrey of Monmouth, who got it from Nennius, of the treacherous slaughter by the Anglo-Saxons of their British hosts:
“Accordingly they all met at the time and place appointed, and began to treat of peace; and when a fit opportunity offered for executing his villany, Hengist cried out, “Nemet oure Saxas,” and the same instant seized Vortigern, and held him by his cloak. The Saxons, upon the signal given, drew their daggers, and falling upon the princes, who little suspected any such design, assassinated them to the number of four hundred and sixty barons and consuls ….”
OED helpfully points out that the correct O.E. (with an uninflected plural) would be nimað eowre seax. For other national names that may have derived from characteristic tribal weapons, cf. Frank, Lombard. Still in 20c. used by Celtic speakers to mean “an Englishman.” In ref. to the modern Ger. state of Saxony (Ger. Sachsen, Fr. Saxe) it is attested from 1634. Saxon is the source of the -sex in Essex, Sussex, etc. (cf. Middlesex, from O.E. Middel-Seaxe “Middle Saxons”). Bede distinguished the Anglo-Saxons, who conquered much of southern Britain, from the Eealdesaxe “Old Saxons,” who stayed in Germany.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
First round numbers just coming up
82 - “one also gets a little plastic duck to take home”
Are you serious…thats sooo cool!
7% chav
Used money off coupons as a student, can’t remember what the other one I said yes to!
97 Mike S. Exciting !!!!!
Question
Which cabinet minister is spending far too long in the lifts at the Ministry of Justice flirting with young, female members of staff? We took a poll and found him to be a legendary swordsman
First round
CON 9105
Bagchi IND 7631
IND 4316
LD 9428
GRN 1183
LAB 3482
I’m 33% chav. An educated sarf londoner.
93 What is the posh version of ‘lounge’ - sitting room? We had a ‘living room’ and a ’settee’ when I was little back in the 70s.
Then again, we also had eiderdowns and I HATE the word duvet.
In a fascinating new poll from the NYT, they show Corzine now winning in New Jersey by three, as follows: 40% Corzine, 37% Christie, 14% Daggett. However, this part of their poll was based on opinions of fewer than 500 “likely voters.” Why is it fascinating? Because they also show Corzine with only 33% job approval! It will be truly amazing if Daggett so splits the anti-Corzine vote as to allow him to be re-elected with such terrible job approval numbers.
http://documents.nytimes.com/the-new-york-times-new-jersey-poll#p=1
So Labour in fifth
81, my particular favourite moment of unwitting satire was a load of Muslims getting angry their Prophet was being depicted as violent, and then calling for Death to the West.
102 Mike Didnt I say Labour would come 4th or 5th !!!
102. Hows the second round looking?
Having lived longer than some others I’m 30% Chav and proud of it.
But they didn’t ask the most pertinent question:
Do you pour HP sauce over your egg, chips and beans?
104 Plato. Parlour or Drawing Room.
20 - You can see something coming and it still be astounding. This Mayoral election is centred on a constituency which Labour won at the last election. This isn’t like coming fifth in Henley.
Did once know a guy called Phil McCraken- VERY difficult to keep a straight face….
98 Simon the one I got last month in Dundee was red whereas before they have always been yellow. I must have around a dozen in my bathroom. When young family members come to visit they love playing with them in the bath
What is the voting system in Bedford?
If Bagchi is an “old Labour dinosaur” then his 2nd prefs might have a high Labour percentage. I understand the other independent is a former Conservative?
Nevertheless, I think the LDs will win the 2nd prefs quite comfortably given Bagchi’s huge vote.
104 Plato
And what are you if you had both a living room and a lounge?
102. Thanks Mike.
104. “Drawing room” if you are wankily pretentious, “sitting room” if you are slightly pretentious, “living room” if you are trying hard not to be pretentious but don’t want to stoop to “lounge”.
These nuances can be so difficult.
*”Drawing room” is allowed if you actually live in a large detached house more than 150 years old with multiple “living rooms”.
116. Let’s not forget rumpus room.
Gin the bottom of the article you refer to about local by elections says:
Analysis of nine comparable contests suggests a projected 11.3% nationwide lead for the Tories.
A calculation based on six wards fought both times by all three major parties gives a line-up of: C 44.4%, Lab 28.8%, Lib Dem 19.8%
That last figure matches YouGov more or less and suggests that the expenses thing is not really an election changer this time around. Are people bored, resigned or simply not interested?
118
I guess I must be slightly pretentious then! We (our family) have always called it the Sitting Room.
118 - I’m going to show my chav roots here, but I would use the phrase “front room”.
re 115 The voting system is the same as the London mayoral election. All voters have a second vote.
92. It’s pure Brown. The same hymn-book he’s sung from for the last twelve years.
What compelling reasons are there to vote Labour there?
He’s basically saying; “The future is a challenge. Same Old Tories. Tory Cuts. Same Old Tories. Um… Vote Labour.”
GOOD ONE GORDON.
122
So would I.
Surely the Libs have to be strong favourites from those figures. You’d imagine they will get the majority of the second prefs from the Greens and Labour.
I don’t know enough about the area to comment on which way the Independent second prefs would go, but there may be potential for some falling out of the equation by having the other Independent or Green as their seconds.
The Conservatives look like they are counting on getting a very high proportion of Independent seconds. Bearing in mind my lack of local knowledge, my gut feeling would be that that is unlikely.
122, that presents me with an issue. We never use the term drawing room, but shift between sitting room, living room (which we usually use) and lounge. And what about the sofa/couch/settee?
Where I grew up it was always “front room”. Not that we all lived in terraced houses with a kitchen/small back room/front room layout or anything.
119 SeanT. Or snug and family room.
122. Front room is arguably better than lounge, as it speaks of honest aspirational working class roots rather than naff lower middle class genteelism.
@104:
God no. Settee and Living Room are two of the sevend deadly English shibboleths of the pardonnais. BAD PLATO.
122. We’re as one. I like front room now because of it’s oh so clever and subtle double meaning.
120. Oh thanks, I ddn’t see that. Didn’t think they’d done a projected share this week.
118 *”Drawing room” is allowed if you actually live in a large detached house more than 150 years old with multiple “living rooms”.
I’m too embarrassed to call a ‘drawing room’ this despite what the estate agent said - I call it my front room. I’ve got another sitting room that I call the den as it’s full of kitties
Trying to find names for rooms without it sounding hideously Hyacinth Bucket is tricky!
Speaking of rumors, there have been strange rumors circulating for about a day now that Ayatollah Khameini is dead. His death has been rumored before, though, so there’s no way to be sure yet…
126 I think there will be a VERY high proportion of non-transfers. Lots of second preferences will be for the various independents, maybe even the Greens as a protest vote.
Do you pour HP sauce over your egg, chips and beans?
by weathercock October 16th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
That makes me a 100% Saxon Chav. Seems right as we love gaudy jewelry on our axes, and fearsome animals on our shields.
93 - no true Chav would ever have been to a hotel.
Yeah, it was always “front room” when I were a lad.
@138:
An hotel, surely?
Blobby Blobby Blobby.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220390/Pictured-The-abandoned-ruins-Mr-Blobby-theme-park-ravers-trash-site.html
This is what I call real journalism.
126 Keith
It depends on who transfers their vote only just over one third transferred last time around - this from Twitter:
In Bedford Mayor Election 2007, of 16,849 1st prefs for cands outside the top 2, 6335 transferred (3732 to Branson, 2603 to Tory).
I say,
living room
settee
bathroom
I’m going to hell aren’t I?
140 Spot on MC>!!
My dad says “lounge” and “pardon” - working class Cornish background. I’d rather have my perineum sandpapered than say “pardon”.
Yet I kind of admire him for the way he doesn’t care. Indeed, he’s probably unaware of any sociological taint to the word “lounge”.
The English class system is richly entertaining.
The true face of militant Islam in Britain!
Dutch MP hails UK visit ‘victory’
Wilders: ”I have nothing against Muslims”
Controversial Dutch MP Geert Wilders has hailed his arrival in the UK as a “victory for freedom of speech”.
Is this protester true face of militant Islam in Britain!
One protester, Sayful Islam, said they wanted to see Mr Wilders “tried in an Islamic court” for “insulting the Prophet”, adding: “We need to put this dog on a leash”.
He described Mr Wilders as “the open voice of democracy” and claimed the Dutch MP’s views were shared by “every government in Europe”.
129: snug? Surely you only get those in olde worlde pubs?
130. I have a front sitting room and a back sitting room.
@134:
A drawing room is a room with a specific technical purpose. It’s not a synonym for sitting room.
146. Sorry link BBC
130 - In which case I’d better switch to lounge, if I’m going to be true to my roots. However, since I live in central London with one large room at the front of the building for watching tv, entertaining guests and dining, front room is simply descriptive.
In Hungarian, they refer to the “clean room”. I’ve always liked that.
143, Basement Cat owns your soul.
http://amyletinsky.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/basement-cat-minions-drain.jpg
118 No, if you’re being wankily pretentious you call it the ‘withdrawing room’.
@145:
I’d say “pardon” is even more tainted with class-warfare overtones than “lounge”. Lounge is happy to be working class, “pardon” aspires to betterness via misplaced french poncey gentility.
On my grandmothers side the family estate had a chinese drawing room …. I think it was more to do with chinoiserie plaster-work decoration than a room for chomping pot noodles !!
147 – We call kids TV room the snug, it’s a small room off the grown ups sitting room.
146, hard to say. I knew lots of Muslims at school and most were perfectly normal chaps, apart from the occasional idiot. However, if you really want to know you could try joining a Muslim forum. I did some time ago, and was less than thrilled with the general approach of many.
141 Loved this comment
“Sooo…would Mr. Blobby’s house be the BEST place or the WORST place to take a hit of acid?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220390/Pictured-The-abandoned-ruins-Mr-Blobby-theme-park-ravers-trash-site.html#ixzz0U6YMv138
Just don’t call it “the den”.
My new flat, the first property I’ve ever owned, has a front room/living room/sitting room/lounge. I think I might call it The Regent’s Salon, as it overlooks Regent’s Park.
That’s not too pretentious, is it? “Let’s go into the Regent’s Salon”.
It was always front room. Even if you lived in a block of flats and it was actually at the back like ours.
I guess it comes from before the twin horrors of the Luftwaffe and Planners when the working classes lived in small terraces and the front invariably opened into the front room.
152: You can its friday when lolcats appear.
159
There’s only one Den.
153 et al. There is a formulation even worse , IMO, than lounge and that’s the Australian ‘lounge room’. Ugh.
IMO the only acceptable room names are those with a purpose. If your room can’t be named after an actual purpose, move to a smaller house!
Front room (geddit?)
Kitchen
Dining Room
Study (if it’s an actual study)
Library (if it is actual Library)
Bedroom
Scullery
Pantry
Cellar
Loft
Dungeon (except Austria)
All other rooms are a bit pointless. Breakfast room might be marginal in really big house. Billiards room is quality, games room is teh suck, unless it’s _that_ sort of games room.
160:You have a flat in Regent’s park Sean…you’re already pretentious.
136/142
Well, that would make sense, although those numbers are lower than I would have imagined.
There are a very similar number of potential transfers available this time, so if the proportion is similar (and I appreciate that it may well not be) then we’re looking at just over 6,000 second prefs to allocate. By a quick estimate, the Conservatives would need about 53% of those to win.
Question re: Bedford; do they have to essentially count the 2nd votes now, or were they done at the same time?
Middle class tenament occupants in Scotland tend to call the main public room a lounge. However working class tenament occupants didnt have a public room. We had a lounge, dining room and sitting room when I was a child in our flat. I would say I have a sitting room which is used as a TV room, a drawing room used only when visitors are present and a morning room/conservatory used when it is a sunny day as is today. The largest room in my house is my dining room which is also the central room in the ground floor.
165. Is this what we can expect from five more years?
My wife calls the room I am in my den. I call it the dog pit as they usually are loafing in here when I am. Her study on the other hand is just that as it usually is full of OU stuff.
We talked about getting a sofa but thought a settee would be better as they are more comfortable and supportive. Sofas usually have low backs and high sides making it very difficult to lay down on them to watch F1.
You can’t have a sofa in a living room, it wouldn’t be right. But as so often Flanders and Swan have been there before us.
We’re terribly House & Garden at number 7B,
We live in a most amusing Mews, ever so very contemporary.
We’re terribly House & Garden - the money that one spends
To make a place that won’t disgrace our House & Garden friends.
We’ve planned an uninhibited interior decor,
Curtains made of straw,
We’ve wallpapered the floor.
We don’t know if we like it
But at least be can be sure:
There’s no place like home sweet home.
It’s fearfully Maison - Jardin at number 7B.
We’ve rediscovered the chandelier:
Très, très very contemporary.
We’re terribly House & Garden though at last we’ve got the chance.
The garden’s full of furniture and the house is full of plants.
It doesn’t make for comfort but it simply has to be
‘Cos we’re ever so terrible up-to-date, comtempo-rar-ary.
Have you a home that cries out to your every visitor “here lives someone who is exciting to know?” No? Well, why not collect those little metal bottle tops and nail them, upside-down, to the floor? This will give a sensation… of walking on little metal bottle-tops turned upside-down.
Why not get hold of an ordinary Northumbrian spoke-shaver’s coracle, paint it in contrasting stripes of, say, telephone black and white white, and hang it up in the hall for a guitar tidy for parties.
Why not drop in one evening for a mess of potage, our speciality, just aubergine and carnation petals, with a six-shilling bottle of Mule du Pape, a feast fit for a King.
I’m delerious about our new cooker fitment, with the eye-level grill. This means, that without my having to bend down, the hot fat can squirt straight into my eye.
We’re frightfully House & Garden at number 7B
The walls are patterned with shrunken heads:
Ever so very contemporary.
Our boudoir on the open plan
Has been a huge success,
Though everywhere’s so open
There’s nowhere safe to dress.
With little screens and bottle-lamps
And motifs here and there
And mobiles in the air
And ivy everywhere
You musn’t be surprised to meet a cactus on the stair
But we call it home sweet home.
We’re terribly House & Garden, as I think we said before
But though 7B is madly gay
It wouldn’t do for every day.
We actually live in 7A,
In the house next door.
166 - Like this?
165 I have a scullery too - and what I believe is technically called a basement as it has a window below ground level - I call it the cellar as basement sounds very American to me.
The Mumsnetters (despite seeming to be far more left wing than the population generally) are incredibly mordacious about Gordon Brown’s “chat” with them…
@165:
Where’s the triclinium? The exedra?
118 remember being shown round a house my parents were thinking of buying where rather posh owner showed us a drawing room & “living room” - the former being a rather cold formal room with expensive old furniture, the latter comfortable chairs, settee & TV.
Wish they had bought it, was £25,000 in 1974, last on market for £1.5m (House had 6 bedrooms, odd rooms with no particular purpose, ballroom, billiard room/games room, outbuildings and 4 acres). Instead they bought a 4 bedroom detached, newly built, same price, but only a third in value of the other now…..
My grandparents called their sitting room ‘the parlour’
[165] - How about a music room?
Also, “scullery” is a great word. My nana had a scullery. We need more of this sort of thing.
Do people still have butteries?
174 Do tell us more Mr Wibbler…
179, what about larders?
We have a pantry. (No tittering, please).
180 Plato
See for yourself here
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/843674-Gordon-Brown-on-Mumsnet-this-Friday-16th-October-lunchtime-between
“mordacious” is now my word of the day, excellent.
I’m 26% chav.
But thats OK, because I would never put a wine rack above my cooker.
Thats the living end.
I have a wine cellar. That’s all one needs, really.
@184:
You have a cooker?
184 tim - You do realise it was placed there specially for the photo shoot?
184: Thats would assume Chav’s drink any wine other than Lambrusco.
You’re confusing Chav with Nouveau Riche, dear tim.
185 - you do? I’m about to start stocking mine. Any tips?
165. My favourite is the Muniment Room, which in the most ancient castles and manors is where you kept archives and deeds, and maybe statuary and art objects.
Now that’s classy. Shall we take our Cohibas into the Muniment Room to look at the Bernini?
SeanT, Plato, JackW
Fascinating how class-ridden Britain still is. Born and raised an expat, still and expat, I’ve used all these terms interchangeably without realizing how class-loaded they are. Family room and basement I agree are Americanisms with which I wasn’t familiar until I moved here.
188 - I didn’t realise White Lightning was a wine.
185
So do it, Its the space between to chimney brests and is just perfect, If I had the money, I could probably store 1000 bottles there! Sadly the tally never gets over 100 these days, after Gordo trashed the pound.
152: Not a cat to meet in a dark place.
I use napkin, sidewalk, while (not whilst), CONtroversy, {month,day,year}, rooster, bathroom (Definitely not thunderbox), etc. And I mend my own clothes. I am a Puritan I fear.
I have a running battle with my girlfriend over the vexatious issue of open plan Kitchens/Diners/living rooms in modern flats and loft apartments and so on.
I find the idea of combining a front room and a kitchen unimaginably horrifying. I don’t want the dishes staring at me when I’m trying to watch Peep show, or smelling onions frying while trying to play on the Ps3, or listening to the washing machine while doing anything. She believes that open plan living will lead to greater sociability and conversation as well as being cooler and funkier.
The only compromise we’ve managed to reach so far is that a scullery/Kitchen-Diner/Study-tv-computer room would be acceptable. Which basically means me abandoning the front room for my own private idaho.
@192:
Apple wine.
186. lol. I bet tim calls his looking glass a “mirror” as well.
Chav.
181.
My maternal Grandfather had a Pantry, whilst my Paternal Grandparents had a Larder. The difference seemed to be that the pantry was walk in cupboard, big enough to really be a room, VERY small room, in its own respect whereas a larder was just a REALLY big cupboard which food stuff got stored in for the winter. There is also the point that my Fathers side of the family or Scotch/Irish whereas my mothers is Yorkshire through and through - I wonder whether this had anything to do with it.
You guys need to read a book entitled “Watching the English” by Kate Fox.
It goes into the class behind all of this; pardon, living room, sofa, dangly trees from the rearview mirror, baby-on-board signs.. it can even distinguish class by how often you wash your car and where you place your pictures in your house.
Very interesting read.
186 - I thought about that when I was typing, is it cooker,oven or range?
Its a stainless steel 5 ring effort.
What do I call it.
185 - I have a wine cellar too.It has five rooms.
195 Hopi - You are right of course. You’ll still lose the argument, though.
182 OUCH. They didn’t like him much did they…
The cutnpaste answers I saw were a big mistake by Team Brown.
SeanT
If you live in Cornwall, I’m jealous. Married at St Just, reception at Tresanton, surname beginning with Tre-. Maryland’s coastline just isn’t a match…
194, I must admit I’ve patched a pair of trousers for dog walking, and I used a blanket stitch (after cutting off loose threads) to mend my fraying jeans.
200 It’s a stove
169 I should have said “on the ground floor” typo sorry.
It looks like the LibDems will have an easy win in Bedford then. Cant see many of the 2nd preferences go Tory over LibDem.
200: You’re such a champange socalist tim.
195 - Mrs Tabman wants to “open” out the kitchen into a “family room” with a sofa and TV.
199 - so what’s the verdict on car-washing?*
* - trick question: the Upper Classses have a chaufeur to do it for them.
199. Baby on board signs…ugh
199 “baby-on-board signs”
Not Chav, just naff….why?
On the chav test, I didn’t see the point of the Co-op inclusion as in most areas I know that are plagued by posh people with second homes, the Co-op is often the only store, and also its fair trade section attract a certain type of unvaccinated hippy.
199 Talking of mirrors I once went to view a house and it had a mirror on the ceiling. Is that Chav or just pervy?
I’m 37% chav.
Living room, because you live in it.
Supper.
Surely the use of Nan, or not, is equally as indicative as room names. Just how does that work? Which granny gets to be called Nan, and why?
@200:
It’s an oven and/or a hob.
NB: electric ovens are acceptable but electric hobs are frowned upon. Cookability, that’s the beauty of gas.
It’s only a range if it’s an AGA or Rayburn. In which case you’ll call it an AGA or Rayburn.
It’s funny how class-consciousness crosses party lines in the UK.
Even the equality crusading Lefties are fully aware of it.
They don’t want to be seen as hoi polloi. Deary me NO.
213: No granny gets to be nan…it was granny and grandma for me…
199 - The Daily Mail does a nice range of Measles On Board signs.
185 ‘I have a wine cellar. That’s all one needs, really.’
Ditto. I think of it as a handy sanctuary from my wife.
189 tabman, how deep are your pockets?
If you really are old money you wear old clothes. The more like a tramp the more old money there is them thar pockets.
If you are newly rich and therefore, by definition, a Chav, you always wear new stuff, well pressed with no repairs.
If you are old money you keep it, if new money you spend it to prove you have ‘arrived’.
How, awful.
Tim, 200
Perhaps it’s a stove?
212 I went to view a house that had a communal shower - now that’s what I call pervy.
213 On the grandmother theme, what’s the order of chavness?
In descending order, Nan, Gran, Nana, Grandma, Granny perhaps?
214
Lacanche is a range.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8310572.stm
Huh?
221: Communal with who?
212, better than a mirrored floor, at least.
My Granny in London was Nan. My Granny in Belfast was Granny.
Don’t know why.
And it’s Cooker. You cook on it.
@213:
I don’t inherently understand why nan/nana is working class, and gran/granny middle class.
Martin C don’t be silly you can’t cook on Raybans even on the sunniest day.
174. Funny thing is Brown wasn’t doing too badly until he posted his ridiculous PPB at the end - we seems to have put EVERYONE off.
This comment encapsulated it perfectly:
“I asked about voting Labour actually, though I didn’t ask why I shouldn’t vote for the Conservatives ”
223 Grandma and Grandad for me.
Nana is totally chavvy AFAIC
220 - Not stove.
Oven is specific to the oveny bit.
What do you put the saucepan on, hob I suppose.
Cooker comes from childhood I think.
218 - not as deep as I’d like them to be! £20 - £40 a bottle; probably 3 cases a year.
203. I’m Cornish, and all my family live down there - but I live in London, or Bangkok if the weather’s bad.
My Cornish ancestry has been traced back 500 years: pure echt Cornish, on both sides. But all peasants of course: tinners, smugglers, and fishermen. And maybe the odd wrecker. Hah.
Given the settled lineage of the Cornish dating back to the Celtic incursions, its probable that my family (siblings, cousins, nephews and nieces etc) live maybe four miles from where their direct ancestors streamed tin on the Penwith moors, 3000 years ago.
A strange thought.
228, I think it may have something to do with “me nan” and “my Gran”
not the specific word.
222. You forgot Grand Mama which would be the least chav….
228: You don’t have to ‘understand’ you just have to ‘know’. These things are almost genetic and don’t work on a logical level.
225 It was big enough for a rugby team - loads of shower heads and black slate.
Weird.
227 - Did she live on a Belfast Sink Estate?
232 227. Surelay a cooker is one item of stand alone furniture with rings/burners, an oven and a grill (eye level if you were being very modish). Whatever happened to Tricity as a brand?
@236:
Moogy!
204 MD nothing wrong with patching clothes. I wear tweed jackets with elbow patches, woollen sweaters with elbow patches and pringle socks which my late grandmother used to darn when my big toe caused a tear inside walking brogues. I also wear an anorak in the garden I got for my first day at secondary school in 1972. It still fits.
I wear jackets, sweaters and jumpers belonging to my late father who died 20 years ago and my favourite coat was purchased by my grandfather in 1935. It weighs around 2 stones and looks as good as the day he purchased it.
215: How can you not be aware of it? It’s that old Shaw quote.. “It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth, without making some other Englishman despise them.”
It’s pretty much a joke, but I’ve been suprised at the venom of anti-Toilet opinions I’ve heard. Mind you, I don’t know if there’s still a vigorous anti-”note-paper” prejudice.
231 Plato
Ditto, both sets
221:
Don’t be hasty. It depends on who uses it I reckon.
234:
Maybe you are a distant relation to “Cheddar Man”. That goes back maybe 9000 years. Your DNA would tell you.
233 tabman, where do you live?
At the end of the day class is basically determined by:
(1) Accent
(2) Parents Background
(3) Name
(4) School
Not necessarily in that order, but accent tops the list.
239 -
233 - Nottingham, but I’ve just joined the Wine Socieety
247 - hmmm … what about the prevalence of estuarine rising intonation?
243: That happens to most people which have heard of Kevin Mcguire though.
A baby on board sign is just an advertisement that the owners can reproduce.
I believe that the original idea was to assist those at the scenes of car accidents.
234. Don’t sound too Cornish on TV Sean.
Take it you’re “posh” Cornish?
249: Now that is Nouveau riche. Before long you’ll be there swirling and spitting and pretending theres leather and melon and oats your can smell and taste….
249. Whereas SeanT lives in regent’s park, but he tries to live it down by joining the Special Brew club!
FPT, the student who urinated on the war memorial has been charged. By the way does anybody have a clue what “sports technology” is? Apparently that is the subject he is studying.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/war-memorial-shame-student-charged-1803953.html
tim
I was going to type angry thoughtless reposte, then realised it might be a joke.
Belfast Sink. I must be chavy as hell not to have heard of that.
250. I think most people can spot that.
@243:
Of the seven deadly shibboleths, I suspect that “toilet” is or will be the first to lose its potency.
Perhaps as a direct response to stupidity of American squeamishness about doing a poo-poo.
Bathroom? Washroom? Restroom? Really? YOU TRY MY PATIENCE, AMERICA.
234 SeanT
Probably only a quarter Cornish myself (English mum, Plymothian paternal grandmother). Itinerate Cornish ancestry - farmers and tradesman/merchants mostly - Tintagel, Bodmin, Saltash, then Plymouth.
First question in my FCO interview was “Cornish name. Sneaked across the border?” I guess they though Plymouth was in Cornwall.
We like to think we have wreckers in the bloodline, but closest yet found is naval surgeon who got a dishonourable discharge for performing a fatal unnecessary operation on a fellow officer with whom he had an argument. Guess that will have to do
thanks 4 the NJ news Stars! BTW there r rumours that the Thai King is seriously ill. May he live long, every loves him here. Ok: Im back to the dance floor.
Taabman: ” I’ve just joined the Wine Socieety”. How Noel Coward of you.
249 - if the cap fits
250 - its seeped into those with whom one might not associate it
215. What about people like Ed Balls? “Look at me, I play football!” Is he just a freak or is he also a freak pretending to be One of the Proletariat?
I have no idea about these things, although my mother did try to train my father to say “thEE” instead of “thUH” because “it sounded better.”
259- “Shitter” and “can” are also accepted in some households.
259 I never understood why ‘toilet’ was uncouth but ‘lavatory’ was polite.
I’ve always said bathroom myself.
There are lots of wonderful class indicators.
What type of cuff-links you wear is one. Chained coupling, or especially elasicated knots with club colours, is upper middle class. Fixed links are middle class.
204 MD nothing wrong with patching clothes. I wear tweed jackets with elbow patches, woollen sweaters with elbow patches and pringle socks which my late grandmother used to darn when my big toe caused a tear inside walking brogues. I also wear an anorak in the garden I got for my first day at secondary school in 1972. It still fits.
I wear jackets, sweaters and jumpers belonging to my late father who died 20 years ago and my favourite coat was purchased by my grandfather in 1935. It weighs around 2 stones and looks as good as the day he purchased it.
Seems you’re a bit of a young (ish!) fogey then Easterross? Or do they all dress like that in your part of Scotland?
Very good habits of re-use, though, your family.
262 - I could change the moniker to Saabman, my dear!
On which note - chav cars, nouveau cars, classy cars?
260 _ “a fatal unnecessary operation on a fellow officer with whom he had an argument”
Today we call it a fatal stabbing and is very chavey.
259
In think Khazi is the best word to describe a toilet.
Who needs wine societies?
There are two things that you need to know about wine:
1) Anybody claiming to like the taste of wine is a liar, and
2) Go for the second least expensive wine on the menu.
264: that is the ‘man of the people’ sin though. Cue Gordon brown wih his love of the Artic Monkey’s, or Tony and NFC (football is one of the main ‘man of the people’loves)
266 - I always thought Lavatory was a French Imperative
271 Isn’t he the President of Afghanistan?
253. My dad, as I said, is working class Cornish, my mum is super working class Cornish: proper Methodist tin mining poverty. My great grandmothers - no joke - were all “bal maidens”. Women employed to break rocks in the tin mines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bal_maiden
Now that’s yer real hardcore Cousin Jack working class Corn.
But my dad went to Oxford and my mum went to college and I am the novelist son of a novelist, who will soon live in Regent’s Park (or Camden, if I want to appear funky) so I guess I am middle posh boho Anglo-Celt?
Jesus, the gradations.
254. Brilliant!
I’m getting… Mmmm… badger farts, the waft of an autumnal Clematis, mixed with the flavour of cocoa bean husk and the taste of a Tibetan Yaks semen.
Cocks.
271 - Isn’t he the President of Afghanistan?
242
Errr you aren’t Prince Charles are you?
Well if they are counting 2nd prefs then the Libdems have got it. Obviously once it was sensed that the Libdems were in with a chance, Labour voters piled in and voted tactically.
249 Tabman, TWS is as good a place as any to start, but can be quite expensive for some wine.
Head over here - http://www.wine-pages.com/cgi-bin2/ultimatebb.cgi
Google these - Yapp, OW Loeb, Genesis, Seckfords, Lea and Sandemann, Fine and Rare Wines, Richard Kihl, Berry Bros & Rudd, Justerini & Brooks.
Happy Hunting!
266 - I hate people using the word bathroom when asking for the toilet in a pub. I want a piss, not a bath.
Re 247 Class criteria
In the 1960’s, one test of class was if
a) you lived within a quarter mile of a grandparent and
b) the house you lived in was rented then
you were working class.
157: ‘I knew lots of Muslims at school and most were perfectly normal chaps, apart from the occasional idiot.’
One of the Muslims I knew at school became one of the Ministry-of-Sound bombers!
267 Fixed links are worn by peole who do not work at a desk! They are very painful to wear, and dig into the wrist, whereas linked chains or fabric “give” a bit when you lean on the table-top. Obvious, really.
I also plead guilty to being a Wine Society member. Just bought some half bottles of port - if it lasts as long as they suggest, I will drink the last half bottle when I am 95. What a thought.
I do not have enough words of praise for the Wine Society. It is one of the things that makes this country great.
276 - “But dad, I want to go down t’pit!”
“No son of mine will go down t’pit, its literary criticism for thee!”
264 diane
Surely the pronunciation of “the” is modified by the following word?
So, broadly, it’s thee if followed by a vowel, otherwise thuh?
284 - I’ve been looking at those half-bottle cases of 2007.
@266:
Toilet is a problem because it has that same misplaced air of poncey French aspirational gentility as “pardon” and “serviette”.
Polite modern usage is to firmly and clearly announce which bodily function you’re going to perform, and the listener merely presumes that the active participant will be able to perform his duties regardless of what the room is called.
“Excuse me, ma’am, but I’m afeared I must fortwith choke a little brown snake.”
276. So how come no accent? Did you go to private school? Or one in the home counties?
277
At a wine tour in Oz, there was a girl there doing the whole ‘look at me’ tasting act. Drinking one wine, she sniffed and swirled and said ‘hmm, I’m getting wood’, to which my mate replies quick as a flash, ‘I’m getting pissed’.
272. “1) Anybody claiming to like the taste of wine is a liar,”
Oh really! There is plenty of nice stuff out there. It is a truth far too rarely expressed however that all it takes to enjoy a £100 bottle of burgundy is £100, whereas a £3 bottle of Vinho Verde from Aldi will usually be much more fun (I speak from experience - try it…).
“2) Go for the second least expensive wine on the menu.”
Emphatically agree. Restaurant wine is invariably overpriced gnats p1ss.
On thread…According to a poster on Vote 2007
“3 Counties Radio says 2nd prefs tending towards Lib Dem”
Look no further than “How to get on in Society”(Betjeman) to find the Non-U vocabulary - the funniest poem he ever wrote.”Are the requisites all in the toilet?The frills round the cutlets can wait till the girl has replenished the cruets and switched on the logs in the grate”.Whole poem on Google.
289. “Off for a quick wank over your wife. Back in a minute..”
199 She also did an excellent anthropological study entitled The Racing Tribe, a witty and informative dissection of Racing in the UK.
I once lost a potential girlfriend because of a apassionate argument over my refusal to abandon non cufflinked shirts, on the basis that cufflinks were a stupid retro affection, buttons did the job perfectly well and only idiots wore mass produced metal studs to advertise their individuality. To seal my case I think I pointed out that William Hague collected cufflinks, and had got a wedding gift of £ cufflinks from Ffion.
Now I’ve given in, and have a few double cuff shrts, mostly on the basis it’s actually quite hard to get nice single cuff shirts now, unless you buy tailor-made.
Electoral Commission advice re Armed Forces voting - I would have thought the Conservatives should make every effort in this area.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8309332.stm
289 ’serviette’ is so 70s - one of those nasty paper thingies that disintegrate when wet and stain everything they touch. Available in navy, blood red and racing green.
“..I hate people using the word bathroom when asking for the toilet in a pub. I want a piss, not a bath….”
When I used to live Oldham it was customary to ask where the “stones” are in a pub. As in “piss stones”
I will drink the last half bottle when I am 95. What a thought.
by Augustus Carp October 16th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
What a waste if you snuff it at 94 and a half.
If you have it drink it with friends. Never, ever drink Port alone.
281 Perhaps you should ask for the pissoire then?
297: How can you be left wing and still have cuff-links? Seriously?
280 - I am indebted.
284,5 - and follows the good Liberal principle of mutuality
There was a rather good program last nite on ITV3 called, “Living the Dream”, on Art Deco houses, flats, and buildings built in the 1930s.
Lovely designs and true blue living in all the rooms, but where was the pantry, the small room where one kept food cooled or even chilled, before the invention of the ice-box?
Nary a sign ofa decent pantry anywhere.
297 - I’m with you all the way there: I detest cufflinks. A complete waste of time.
@297:
Jesus, man. Have you never heard of the concept of choosing your battles?
Me, I’m a man of the people, £10 shirts from M+S.
297 Hopi - On the basis of that progression, it’s only a matter of time before you vote Tory.
O/T 20/20 on Eurosport - get on T&T @ 3s. They won the other night from 2.9 and are undefeated.
@306:
GET OUT.
I love my flinks. My little babies will always love me.
“2) Go for the second least expensive wine on the menu.
Martin Coxall.!
No no no! A terrible error!
This is now so accepted it has become a mark of the cheapskate who doesn’t want to appear cheap. These days you have to go for the THIRD least expensive wine on the list (not “menu”!). Or you can just think f*ck it, and go for the absolute cheapest, and laugh like a duke of the blood royal as you do it - thus showing upper class social confidence rather than middle class nerves.
Agree on “toilet” though. Fast becoming acceptable (a bit like khazi) as it is slightly offensive and therefore not genteel ergo posh. “Loo”, I suspect, is descending the social ladder.
297 - single cuff shirts are for children and people with jobs so middling it requires wearing ones made from polyester as part of the uniform.
287. I think it comes out naturally that way, but apparently he was slipping in getting the “EE” out and she didn’t want her relatives hearing him until he could get it right. It was slightly bizarre.
The number of first names you have is another. Three is a minimum for the upper middle classes, but the more you have the more elevated you become: as in “Charles Philip Arthur George” which is a relatively modest number for a royal. The current leader of the Opposition in the Lords is “Thomas Galloway Dunlop du Roy de Blicquy Galbraith, 2nd Baron Strathclyde”. A true modern Tory.
309 - I’ve been wearing them for 25 years and nary a cross in the blue column.
297 I really like cuff-links, I’ve lots of girl shirts with double cuffs.
I detest cheap ‘novelty’ ones though - I interviewed a guy recently with Bruce Lee photos on his. That was all I recall from the meeting.
268 Tim 13 I happen to share my father and grandfather’s taste in traditionally styled clothes.
@312:
Well, clearly I need to recalibrate. As it is, I tend to sulk unless there’s Prosecco available anyway.
Though I’m not sure I approve of wine lists.
I was taught that grammer is important to be careful(not to say efficient in the use (or indeed exposition of) of) of.
303. well, remember i’m if not a champagne socialist or bollinger bolshevik, then certainly a low rent version. A prosecco progressive, perhaps.. A cava commie?
Question to all you class experts:
BMW, Mercedes, Audi
For each one - Chav or not?
315. My grandfather had four names but was from a pit village near Barnsley.
296. I need to read that.
@321:
Prosecco’s not “low rent”. It’s now the official sparkling wine of the insufferable classes.
321
A Cabernet Socialist?
322
BMW was the most chavtastic of cars. Mercs are moving that way.
322. Only a Porche will do Tabman.
BMW: Arseholes
Mercedes: Nazi Sympathisers
Audi: Cocks
322. Bugatti Veyron?
315 - chap on my staircase was WKFDMR Ward
297 Hopi Sen
Along with double cuffs on shirts are tailored suits where the four buttons at the end of the sleeve unbutton, so that the suit sleeves can be folder back up the arm when the wearer is washing their hands. The owners of such suits often demonstrate the quality of their suit by pointing out the ability to unbutton but I have never seen any of them use the facility for its proper purpose.
“Thomas Galloway Dunlop du Roy de Blicquy Galbraith, 2nd Baron Strathclyde”.
A case of trying a bit too hard, surely. And I note he is just a “2nd” Baron.
Chav.
With cars, I reckon Volvos, Audis, Saabs and to some extend Volkswagens are “true middle-class” - though obviously that doesn’t include the Golf GTIs…
BMWs and Mercs are chav.
322
BMW = sales rep or black drug dealer
Merc = Asian businessman or wife whose husband drives to the station with her in the passenger seat
Audi = ageing bloke looking for more pizzazz or power dressing woman.
I have a Merc conv - it is evidence of my mid-life crisis
322: According to clarkson, Audi’s are now driven by Cocks, whereas it was BMW’s in the past.
312 Totally agree with you on the cheapest wine on the list thing.
I’m told that a lot of Michelin star + resto’s have one v v cheap wine on the menu, (primarily so they can tell reporters “we do a lovely xxxxx for £13″ when they get interviewed about outrageous luxury). They’re usually pretty good value for rest wines. They can put this on the list safe in the knowledge that few people will ever order it.
Sadly, I’m forbidden from ordering them, because apparently I take too much glee in being a cheapskate.
322. Ooh.. interesting.
BMW = definitely Chav. Wouldn’t be seen dead in one.
Audi = slighter higher up the chain; but going that way. Borderline Chav.
Mercedes = probably Chav now.
I’d have to pick a Jag.
271 MTF - when I was a boy in central Africa it was the PK - my mum didn’t like us to use the word and its probably completely non gratis now (short for piccannin kia = small room)
297 – Hopi, you’ll not regret making the switch to cuff-links you should have listened to the girl. I wear my fathers gold ovals with chain link and have done for 30 years.
from twitter
Twiiter forces Mail to pull all adverts
Posted on October 16, 2009 by Malcolm Coles
Oh my God, we’ve won. I started encouraging people to tweet to BT, M&S and Enjoy England asking them to pull their advertising from the disgusting Jan Moir Stephen Gately article.
This has happened! Even better, the Mail has pulled every advert from the page! See screenshot - the holes are where the ads were.
337: In which case you are now the golf club rogue.
313 Another Richard
Agreed. But who wears a button down collar? That is a real no-no! As, IMHO, are white collars with striped shirts but there is a minority in favour os this nastiness.
Result not too far off. The Lib Dems look happy.
337 - I reckon Bristols* are the true UMC car.
* - no smirking at the back.
Re: previous comments about the article in the Daily Mail about Stephen Gately; they’ve now changed the headline, Stephen Fry has had a go, and apparently the Press Complaints Commission website has crashed
http://twitter.com/STEPHENFRY
@343:
There’s a sale on quiche in Waitrose.
323
Everybody’s grandfather had four names - to remember those ancestors who didn’t make it through childhood.
SOL’s example is the U/C remembering where the money came from
340 Jan Moir article has GONE FROM MAIL WEBSITE!!!
From the previous thread:
jsfl - “Not necessarily, if Martin Kettle is right and if he is it may well be there are factions within the SNP that do not really want independence:
The SNP, by contrast, seems surprisingly flexible and even fuzzy. It wants an independent Scotland – but with the Queen as the head of state, with the pound as the national currency, with Scottish diplomats sharing British embassies, and with a set of special relationships, including dual nationality and an absence of border posts with the nation to their south. Just this week, the SNP’s Angus Robertson said he favoured allowing British troops to maintain their (non-nuclear) bases in an independent Scotland while Scottish cadets would go on training at Sandhurst.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/15/braveheart-it-aint-salmond-army
Could this be the first sign of splits in the SNP ranks?”
Only if you mistake Martin Kettle with someone who knows what the SNP’s policies have been for years and how independence is not the stark black and white image he appears to be portraying it as.
“It wants an independent Scotland – but with the Queen as the head of state”
Has Mr Kettle never heard of Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, the Solomon Islands and Tuvalu
“with the pound as the national currency”
Like the Euro is used in several independent countries. As is the dollar.
“with Scottish diplomats sharing British embassies”
Mr Kettle may not know that the UK does this already.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2005-11-30c.32478.h&s
“and with a set of special relationships”
There are special relationships all over the world.
“including dual nationality”
Maybe he’s not aware of the Ireland Act 1949 or the rights of Commonwealth citizens.
“and an absence of border posts with the nation to their south.”
Like we have with the Common Travel Area and Schengen within the single European market.
“Just this week, the SNP’s Angus Robertson said he favoured allowing British troops to maintain their (non-nuclear) bases in an independent Scotland”
Like the RAF in Episkopi, Akrotiri and Dhekalia. Or the British Army in Munster.
“while Scottish cadets would go on training at Sandhurst.”
He may like to check out Sandhurt’s very own website:
http://www.sandhurst.mod.uk/courses/overseas.htm
“The Overseas Officer Cadets in training today represent thirty-five different countries. In recent times the first cadets have come from Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Ukraine and Iraq. Who will be next?”
Calling unrelated friends of the family Aunty and Uncle…
Middle names: 2 is a sure sign of upper middle class parents. 1 is inconclusive.
German cars? Ostentatious.
My Car is a few ashes and Molten plastic outside my front door!
343. Oh dear - Camerons Cons in crisis ?
There we were having an amusing an irreverent discussion about trivialities. Then up pops a nit with a FPT comment that is dreary in the extreme.
SNP - Chav or not?
the truth is, if you seek to take any sort of pride or status in which car your drive….then you’re a cock.
351 - He’s BACK and just in time for a LibDem victory
I wonder about Aston Martin. Is that nouveau riche? Or does Bond ensure it’s still classy?
I’m confused.
322. The best theory I’ve ever heard on how to avoid chav cars is that you should buy whatever reputable minicab drivers get - as this will be fuel effiecient, comfortable in front, roomy in back pleasant to drive, safe, reliable, decent boot and so on. everything else is branding pretension and poncery. Sort of the car equiv of proudly drinking vin ordinaire.
On this basis the Skoda Octavia is the clear winner.
351 welcome back Martin.
LD =
338. Brilliant. I shall use that word PK for The Regent’s Salon in my new flat (i.e. the front room) whenever I have bien pensant lefties round for an evening meal and a glass of Sainsburys second cheapest prosecco which I store above the cooker down the hall from the lavvy.
When they ask me what PK means I shall plead ignorance, while laughing mischievously like the late Alan Clarke MP.
343. Martin Day. Where are you now that we need you.
U must let Martin back, mike, to celebrate an apparent L/D victory in Bedford.
Here’ssssssss Martin!
355. John O
I have been in Bedford giving strategic advice to the Beford Lib Dems!
344
Was never the same since they changed their name from the Bristol Tram Co.
351. Welcome home
348. Told you.
Wouldn’t surprise me if it was just a lazy editor who hadn’t read it first before publishing.
Then again, there is Littlejohn..
351 MARTIN! Welcome back
Nick Clegg=War Memorial
359 - “LD =
”
Indeed. Amusement at those predicting their demise.
351 LoL - So Mike’s in a good mood today, eh?
361. Welcome back Martin.
Is everyone waiting for yet another local election result from yesterday where the LibDems win from a previous independent.
So, last night LibDems win two( one from Lab one from Ind), lose one (to Lab) and hold one? Is that right?
Move along, nothing to see here.
351:
That’s a good opening line for a novel.
360 - PK was the name of a character in a Brice Courtenay novel. Short for P*ss Kop
Chav Coxall - “Wine menu” menu?
351 Martin Day
Don’t you think you should apologize to PB.com?
What you said was way way beyond what is acceptable.
351. MAAAARRRRRRTIIIIIIINNN!!!!!!!
We’ve missed you!
Need a new cartoon for the incipient Lib-Dem victory in Bedford.
Just watch Clegg crawl over it tomorrow like an irritating house-fly on a cupcake.
RESULT AFTER 2nd preferences counted
CON: 11,543
LD:
13,897(though drowned out by noise) 13,552I was in a fairly swanky hotel in Dubai recently, and asked the girl on the desk where I might find the gents. She was obviously a bit confused, as she threw it back at me - “the gents?”. Yes, I said, “the gents”. Puzzled look, then “oh, you mean the toilets!”…
Ho hum…
377 Ah well, still a good showing.
Guido puts his inimical spin on the Tories thrashing Labour oop North.
http://order-order.com/2009/10/16/jonah-jinxs-leyland/
Con 709
Lab 239
PS
BMWs are cars for people who recognise the finer points of driving.
Hello everybody!
If the LD win today in Bedford, it is my fault for not doing Green Gas websites! 
I have been at a health farm having enemas and yogurt plastered on my face!
W00t.
One of my tweets is on The Guardian’s website. I AM THE NEWS.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2009/oct/16/jan-moir-stephen-gately-facebook-twitter
CAMERON HUMILIATED !!!
375 - I wouldn’t hold your breath.
377 Damn, lost a few quid on that then.
SeanT It is nouveau chav to talk about ‘ bien pensant’ especially as a yellow paper thriller writer.
Whites 1 Bussing in supporters 0
377. Parvez Akhtar = Neil Kinnock?
Labour vote percentage = 9.98%
377: Close…have the lib dems stopped the rot of poor elections?
Well done to all the Labour voters of Bedford!
I would have voted LibDem aswell. Bodes well for the GE.
tories = toast
377- Congratulations to you and yours, Mike.
Great result for the LDs!
377. That will teach Cameron not to parachute someone in over the heads of the locals.
375. I agree. I find being told my family (and lots of others) should be killed is the sort of thing that makes me think a general apology should be issued before the smily faces can be amusing again.
How odd. The difference between the two was pretty similar even after second preferences. Wouldn’t that suggest a pretty even split?
Be interesting to see the twisting and turning of all the parties to make the best of this.
gabble, do you know were labour came? I haven’t see the full results.
That’s 25 quid down the swanny.
377. I’m not sure it’s possible to discuss this result without accusations of racism being thrown about *HOWEVER* given the slim(ish) margin of victory, do people think that the controversy surrounding the selection of the Conservative candidate was a deciding factor?
Or would the Lib-Dems have won anyway?
377 Interesting, well done the LDs.
All Owners of the Senior-meter will need to re-calibrate their instruments.
375. wibbler
Yes sorry about that - 15 Pints makes me write nasty things. I should not have done it and wonder where the silly thoughts came from, it must have been something on the telly.
383; Yes..becuase clearly labour were rampant.
Go the yellows! Prepare for power!
383. Yes, dear. Shall we not mention the Labour result?
9%???
lol.
64 - Hopi Sen = iPhones. Not sure why that would lead to childhood mocking though. Or how they knew what was coming…
On rooms..
I once asked where the toilet was in our New York office. They looked at me with absolute disgust that I could have used such a word. So I guess it must be bathroom over there even though there isn’t a bath to be seen.
Our new house (moving in date 19th Decemeber, must be mad) has two living rooms/lounges/etc. We are already calling one the “family room”. It does join onto the kitchen (for Hopi) but you can’t see the dirty plates because of raised breakfast bar and the washing machine is in the utility room. The other one will (hopefully) be off-limits to the kids, and will probably get called the-living-room-at-the-front-of-the-house-we-never-use or something.
Lee
383 ‘Labour humiliated’ would be more appropriate Gabble, in view of the fact that the local MP is one of your lot!
383/391. Oh dear.
You are a Dick Gabble, aren’t you?
349. I wondered how long it would be before one of you took the hook properly.
Well I’m glad that you Scots Nationalists have decided what we the remaining British are going to agree to.
Just because you can cite examples of things doesn’t mean to say that that’s what you’ll get.
Seems to me you want your cake and eat it at the same time? Well life rarely works out that way!
377- Great Result! Comes on top of some good locals elsewhere too… so Martin, not dead yet- the game is still afoot.
244 Tabman
My grandfather and an uncle both had Bristols, but they are ugly. Their sole purpose was to advertise “handmade and exclusive”. Their engines are now made by Chrysler.
388. “377. Parvez Akhtar = Neil Kinnock?”
*chuckles to self*
376. Casino Royale
Yes - I am working on a ‘piece of art’ on how they managed to win Bedford. Most disappointing they won but a win is a win. Presumably they will tell us how Clegg will be soon in No.10 rather than No.31!
409 - function over form? I’m sure I read somehwere that a very high proportion are still in existence.
Martin, an interesting comment from the guardian article you linked to.
“.I´ve complained to the PCC and many are complaining to the Met Police for inciting homophobia…”
That would definately put the fox in amongst the hens if true.
399- Yes, wasn’t the Tory candidate supposed to be so marvelous that it was worth poisoning the selection process in order to guarantee his candidacy? Now they don’t even have a victory to show for the shambolic selection charade.
“That will teach Cameron not to parachute someone in over the heads of the locals”
It would if he had done that. The selection was a caucus, not a candidate imposed by CCHQ.
411. Brilliant!!!
Can’t wait
Tactical voting lives!
Largest party at the GE = Anyone But The tories
Result - looking at the first preferences I guessed it would swing that way.
Labour virtually last in a constituency they have held since it was re-created in ‘97.
Will we know how many DID NOT give a 2nd preference?
Welcome back, Martin. There is much work for you to catch up on. In your absence, the LDs have prospered. Today’s result is just a portent of what could happen without your sterling efforts.
Go to it.
411. Clegg will be soon in No.10 rather than No.31
Good result for the Lib Dems, poor result for the Tories. Will be interesting to see how open primary selectees perform generally from here.
Makes a contraction in the polling position more likely imo, no evidence of a soaraway.
None of you lot know anything about cars! BMW’s are for the keen driving enthusiasts. As the ads say, “The Ultimate Driving Machine”
Each BMW out-drives the other cars in its class. The wonderful 3-series deservedly picks up award after award.(Which is not to say that it is a BETTER car - other cars ride more comfortably, for example).
BMWs (especially the estate versions) are driven by very intelligent people with exquisite taste.
A BMW is not a chav car, unless it is about 10 years old with amateur modifications to the bodywork.
Incidentally, the imagery conjured up by having to describe an Audi crashing into the back of a BMW using Martin’s earlier definitions is very disturbing (BMW: Arseholes ………..Audi: Cocks)
Jan Moir’s career to die of perfectly natural causes
The career of Daily Mail columnist Jan Moir is desperately clinging to life after suffering an adverse reaction following exposure to common sense, unbiased thinking, and the Internet.
Moir, who recently wrote about the death of Stephen Gately - suggesting that his demise was likely the result of ‘anything but’ natural causes - is now said to be preparing for the worst.
“It’s sad, but her career has had a good run.” said Daily Mail editor Paul Dacre.
“There are those who would call her a short-sighted bigot, perhaps even a wilfully deceitful crack-whore, but they don’t realise how upsetting the loss of her career will be to millions of witless homophobes and racists.”
“Now who will explain the world around them in terms they understand?”
“Exposing her article to rational-thinking Internet users, was perhaps asking too much of her career. We will mourn its passing.”
Great Loss
One Mail reader told us, “All she did was speak the truth about Stephen Gately’s unusual death, because every Daily Mail reader knows that the gays can only die if you drive a wooden stake through their heart.”
“His death is very suspicious, maybe someone should think about interviewing all the immigrants, eh?”
As the Press Complaints Commission consider switching off Jan Moir’s career, there has been speculation among readers of the Daily Mail that foul play is to blame for its untimely passing.
“How can a career ‘die’, just like that?” asked one reader on a Daily Mail internet forum.
“There is clearly a homosexual conspiracy involved, it wouldn’t surprise me if there were some black people to blame as well.”
http://newsarse.com/2009/10/16/jan-moirs-career-to-die-of-perfectly-natural-causes/
417. Largest party “Any Other” than Tories?
I’ll gobble up your money on Betfair Gabble.
How ’bout it?
421 Truly DIRE for Labour. Will they move against Brown over the weekend?
404. It was a school for futurologists…. amusingly I’ve had a couple of visits to my blog from people googling Hopi Sen anagram. Come on, it’s seven letters, people.
Off limits to the kids eh? I know what they’ll call it, eventually.
396 - David
The difference on first prefs was only 323. The final difference was 2009
422 BMWs (especially the estate versions) are driven by very intelligent people with exquisite taste.
Well said, Disraeli. How did you know?
At the risk of being Twittered to Death, I don’t think Jan Moir’s article was *that* bad. It was distasteful and ill-timed, and should have been edited and held over, but there IS something sad and lonely, and morbidly curious, about Gately’s death.
Pointing that out is not NECESSARILY homophobic. Saying most gays die necessarily squalid deaths is of course revoltingly homophobic but I’m not totally sure she said that or even implied it.
Interesting use of Twitterpower, though, whatever the underlying truth.
WELCOME BACK MARTIN DAY,bloody hell mate,the lib dems look like they have took the bedford mayor,we need you to get to work on them
The largest party at the GE will be ‘anyone but Labour’.
This remark - “That will teach Cameron not to parachute someone in over the heads of the locals” - shows that total unmitigated ignorance of the facts is alive and well even in a grown up site like this.
426 - Snip Hoe? H Is Open? In Hopes? Kids can be cruel.
422 - do you ever get let out of junctions?
Audi A8 - Excellent day car.
Hope you’re feeling a deal better Martin. Now behave !!
Film centre gets government funds
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8310685.stm
More magic money just growing on trees?
431. What do you feel the facts were TrevorsDen?
For anyone who’s interested in this sort of thing, by my calculations, of the 16,612 ballots for candidates who were eliminated in the first round, 6,562 (39.5%) had second preferences which were valid for the final round (i.e. Conservative or Lib Dems).
Those split 62.8%/37.2% in favour of the Lib Dems.
426 Hopi Sen
Does the anagram concern the male anatomy and ladies of negotiable virtue?
[399] - ..do people think that the controversy surrounding the selection of the Conservative candidate was a deciding factor?
No… and yes. I think the Tories may well have lost with a conventional selection, but a Totnes-style primary, as opposed to a farcical packed meeting, might have had a positive impact that would have won votes.
I was fairly sure of the Lib Dem win yesterday. I hope this is one step on the way of teaching central offices of whatever party that LOCAL parties usually know best and they should not interfere, but just provide help where asked. I hope this is a lesson that the Tories ignore.
409 Seth - ugly older models but the Blenheim speedster which some rich middle aged guy around here owns (see it on local roads regularly enough) isn’t bad looking and the Fighter, while its back isn’t great isn’t bad looking.
re 394 hang on - I thought it was the “locals” who picked the Tory candidate.
433 My little blue rollerskate of a car ALWAYS gets let out - so did my Sptifire despite being ‘russet brown’.
Dyed you seem determined to see everything Tory through a glass darkly these days.
The results of the locals without the one in Bedford seemed to confirm the YouGov position and ICM with a 14-16 point Tory lead. With this election so close I would think the inclusion of this result would make no difference to the Tory Lab relative position with a bit of a boost for the LibDems from their slump compared to 2005.
A calculation based on six wards fought both times by all three major parties gives a line-up of: C 44.4%, Lab 28.8%, Lib Dem 19.8%
422/428. It’s not about whether the BMW is a good car. It undoubtedly is. It’s a fantastic car.
It’s about the image.
I can count the numbers of BMW drivers I’ve encountered on the roads who *don’t* drive like a total knob-jockey on the fingers of one hand.
I would never want to be associated with that.
@429:
The implication that he could not possibly have died of natural causes because he is a FILTHY GAY is deeply troubling.
It’s the general air of smear and innuendo, and witless prying, and general attempt to imply there’s something wrong with gays without actually saying it was deeply troubling.
Interesting question though: has Twitter become an enemy of free speech?
435 What an ugly building. Is that really the best design for a site directly opposite St Pauls?
199: Re ” watching the English”
I coudn;t finsih that book, i was too depressed. I discovered
1) I am not an individual, she knew all about me
2) I am resolutely lower middle class
Apparenlty it is worse to say “pardon” than “f*ck”. Which I had spent 32 years not knowing. Bizarrely “what?” is better than “pardon?” despite sounding ruder and brusquer to me. But apparently I am entirely wrong!
Also “lounge” is out, as is “serviette” and several others which I used.
Then my wife put the tin hat on it by syaing she knew I was LMC but married me anyway… bless (or curse?) her for never correcting me.
I was actually quite depressed for days after reading that book. Gah
423.
Moir article still there?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1220756/A-strange-lonely-troubling-death–.html
429. SeanT but there IS something sad and lonely, and morbidly curious
That maybe true I agree, but that’s not what Jan Moir is alluding to is it? She is clearly hinting that Gately died ‘because’ he’s gay - the article is full of homophobic innuendo i.e.
His death was not a natural one
Ooh wonder what she means not ‘natural’?
[Gately’s death] strikes another blow to the happy-ever-after myth of civil partnerships
and so on…
Regarding Bedford, are things so bad for Labour that they are now suffering from a 2 party Squeeze! Down from 50% of the vote to less than 10% is a massive decline.
I don’t wish to puncture anyone’s balloon regarding the importance of the Bedford result, but it does not figure at all on the BBC website, either general news or the politics sections.
391,gabble,gabble,gabble,if the lib dems wanted to take this seat at the GE then for me they should have won it by a country mile.Alot went wrong with the tory campaign and looks good for the tories at the GE
Re. 418: “Will we know how many DID NOT give a 2nd preference?”
Sum of votes after second preferences = 24,895
Sum of first preferences = 35,145
So at least 10,250 people (29% of votes cast) gave no second preference, or at least not for either Cllr Hodgson or Cllr Akhtar - and that excludes all Lib Dem and Tory voters who may not have given a second preference. Why have SV when you can have AV?
Ha!
#TheDailyMailIsGay is a trending topic on Twitter.
WHAT.
“Interesting question though: has Twitter become an enemy of free speech?
by Martin Coxall October 16th, 2009 at 3:38 pm”
This is my worry (though a minor one compared to my next tax bill). We’ve seen the power of Twitter twice in a week now. Once for an unquestionably good cause - Trafigura, once in an arguably good cause (nixing Jan Moir). It’s a rather easy step from here, to getting Any Articles We Don’t Like shut down.
Hm.
448 Search for it under her name - its gone from the list.
Hrrm, appears I’m 7% chav - that’s two * yes, from “tea”, and potnoodles (nothing wrong with the occasional Bombay Bad Boy when you can’t be bothered cooking).
The _only_ bad thing to come out of the Moir defenstration is that we will now get another billion boring articles about blinkin’ twitter in the broadsheets. Listen quietly and you can hear the desperate phone calls from Editors commissioning a thousand words from a “social media expert” they met at a dinner party last week.
Oh, as for Bedford- it’s a mayoral. Having worked on campaigns where we’ve been soundly beaten by a rogue cop, a monkey and a tory (Not unusual, except the previous Tory had been arrested for child abuse), and then won all the subsepquent parliamentary elections in those seats I’m pretty confident there isn’t much of a correlation between mayoral election and general election results.
447. Must say, I loved it. Recognised myself the whole way through!
And I winced when I realised my family does a few UC things.
I came out as about 65% middle-middle and 35% upper-middle class I reckon.
On Cars, my personal experience is that Audi A8 does now seem to be the car of choice for the knob-jockeys that used to buy BMW’s 3/5 series. They seem to be everywhere, normally undercutting, blowing horn, tail gating etc.
@451:
I think we can comfortably predict it won’t be leading the six.
443 that’s probably true, Witan. I have moved away from the bosom of the Tory party and it is very unlikely I will stray back again. Well, I won’t stray back again actually.
However, I genuinely believe there is a subtle shift going on and the Tory victory is far from certain and am quite prepared to parade around with egg on my attactive face if the polls show me to be a filthy charlatan.
Oh well, at least Labour came fifth
381 Welcome back Martin. Why were you having enemas plastered on your face?!
Liberal Democrats will be ecstatic about their result in Bedford. Dreadful for Tories. Four times worse for Labour.
Twitter is a little prone to mob-rule and manipulation is it would seem.
Labour hi-jacking the IlovetheNHS is another example.
436. winner, winner, chicken dinner.
463 What a gentleman
381.
” I have been … having enemas and yogurt plastered on my face!”
Does an enema on the face improve the appearance? Does the yogurt ease the application?
Martin Day = Mark Oaten???? No wonder he’s so bitter.
179.”Do people still have butteries?”
In Aberdeen we do.
I see on twitter that amid the LD celebrations there are concerned citizens worrying about the coucil tax increases that Dave has promised.
409 Tabman & 441 Ted
Alas both Bristols were retired before I reached driving age, my grandfather’s much earlier as God retired him first. I did however have use of a Rover 90 of mid 1950s vintage right up until the mid 1980s. Not Bristols, but a bench for a front seat, a free-wheel gear and a set of tools inlaid onto a pull-out draw made up for the lack of class. Rode like a tank on air cushions.
434 - JARHEAD?
council=council
Abysmal result for Brown and Labour. I’ve never been to Bedford, but a friend used to work there and said it was a dreadful place of ring-road DIY stores and tramps vomiting around the bus-stops in the morning. If Labour is humiliated in a place such as this then it must really be in trouble!
[455] - People have always worried about the power of the mob; twitter is a modern incarnation, or at least a medium in which it can communicate quickly.
I suppose the test is if twitter proves to be self-correcting, but it seems to express mostly gut judgements, so perhaps not?
LibDems should be happy with the result, well done and all that.
I think Labour HQ on the other hand will be more than just a little concerned in garnering just 9%…never mind
460. I look forward to knob-jockeying you Oracle !! …. Do I get a mention in the Daily (Hate)Mail ??
Jack W - Audi A8 Driver of Repute.
458. Rubbish. This is a disappointing result for the Tories, no question. It is a dire result for Labour.
You apparently came fifth, not second or third, in a place where the local MP is one of yours. Tsk.
470 Christina
Butteries are common in Oxford Colleges as a place where port can be drunk in a gown.
473 Tabman. Yes yes. Next thread !!
On the Labour 9%, whilst funny, it’s also probably that a lot of the people voting for the indy are labour voters and transferred to the LDs.
A majority are likely to go back to Labour come the GE.
Someone needs to tell Prezza to change the name of his web-site to ‘Come Fifth’…….
465. “lowlife”?
EH?
468. You have such a dirty mind!
(nothing wrong with that
Does this Bedford result mean that pollsters now have to adjust their Labour weightings for likelihood to vote? After all, this dreadful performance is at a time that the polls and some posters here are arguing about a hardening of the Labour vote. Or is this just local and so not effect intentions/actual voting habits for the GE?
Well done to the LDs. I think they deserved to win in Bedford.
It shows that open caucuses need to be rethought. They are far too easily manipulated. I still think open primaries are a good idea - especially if the Carswell proposal of piggybacking them on other elections keeps the cost down.
One way to keep open caucuses but to get around Parvez Akhtar tactics would be to announce anyone interested in taking part would have to apply before the candidate shortlist was published - but it’s hardly conducive to encouraging turnout and participation.
From what I heard, Akhtar also fought a pretty poor campaign locally. In particular, his performance on the TV debate was abysmal. Not many people would have watched that, but in a low turnout election, things like that matter.
christina, am I correct in thinking that the butteries that you refer to are effectively croissants with additional heart attack thrown in?
475 - “…and tramps vomiting around the bus-stops in the morning…”
Fortunately, Mr. Smithson (human) has now recovered.
478 Audi A8? That’s a taxi. Why didn’t you buy a Phaeton, JackW?
Nick Clegg video response:
“Sensational Liberal Democrat victory in Bedford Mayoral elections”
http://www.libdems.org.uk/news_detail.aspx?title=Sensational_Liberal_Democrat_victory_in_Bedford_Mayoral_elections&pPK=05a105d6-f023-4a70-b9bf-b80262340661
Jan Moir is growing like topsy on Google Trends - http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=lc&chs=220×100&chco=0088dd&chg=25,33,1&chxt=x&chxl=0:|PDT|12PM|6PM|12AM|6AM&chd=t:0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,3,13,37,70,100
Re Bedford:
Clearly the only way to get rid of Brown is to vote Tory.
Brown and Clegg
sitting in a tree
K.I.S.S.I.N.G.
Lefties unite against the tories - it’s 1978 all over again.
Only way to stop this is to vote tory it seems.
off topic Grauniad mixes up the millipede bros.
http://tinyurl.com/yz5q4qo
Shurely schome mishtake?
[486] - You can’t say. Turnout very low, as in Euros, and also large vote for independents [bear in mind that previous Mayor was an independent, and no-one has posted what the Labour vote was at last Bedford election, it may also have been awful].
Mind you, given that the entire Labour strategy revolves around telling Lib Dem voters they have to vote Labour to stop the Tories, it can’t be good for the voters to see that it is the Lib Dems who are [apparently] best-placed to stop the Tories.
315 his father was Thomas Galloway Dunlop Galbraith. The bits in the middle come from his mother who from memory was a Belgian countess
491 CLEGG =
The thing is that she put in the death of Matt Lucas’ partner in too to ‘prove’ being gay kills you.
It’s a truly sick article and she is thoroughly deserving of her sh1t storm.
480.Seth, only need a dressing gown up here.
488.Don, indeed, a very unhealthy breakfast roll, or a rowie as they are sometimes called.
It would be interesting to look at the Labour positions and vote percentages over the last year, in all larger elections: by-elections, euros, mayorals, and the “national locals”.
Their average vote must be way way down. 16% in the euros. Fifth here. Third in the national locals. Etc.
The opinion polls may be overstating their true position. Again.
484 Apologies
5.5% swing Con to Lib Dem (on Mike’s figures above)
5.2% swing Lab to Lib Dem
Actually worse for the Tories than Labour.
Very counterintuitive. Someone should check my figures.
Of course, the fact is that this will almost certainly lead to the Mail being trumpeted for a growth in web traffic this month
Twitter as the modern ochlocracy? Yeah. Enemy of free speech? No.
How often is an article so bad, so awfully-written, so demonstrative of serious moral and mental retardation, that even Daily Mail readers think it is bigoted and beyond the pail?
This is just a shameful excuse for ‘journalism’ and isn’t any more worthy of getting a national newspaper to pay for it and send it to 3m homes than David Irving or David Icke. No-one is calling for her to be censored (AFAIK), just saying that you publish that sort of sick tripe in a national newspaper and you and your publisher deserve the backlash you get. If it turns out that she or the Daily Mail can’t handle the response, they should consider not printing spurious and bigoted nonsense.
That’s what’s great about free speech - you get to call people out for being stupid, morally degenerate wastes of the air that useful people could be breathing. Only when they deserve it, of course, but this is one of those times…
What matters is not what car you buy, but your motivation for buying it.
If you are a 40 year old provincial accountant buying an entry level 3 series BMW because you have always aspired to own one as a mark of status, you are a tool.
If you have £30,000 to spend on a car and you have bought a BMW because you appreciate good car construction, you are not a tool.
Audi A2-A4s are good family cars but have limited cache. The bigger Audis are well made but terminally uninspiring.
Mercedes have lost their way a little but are probably the best of the three in terms of aesthetics, which does count for a lot in terms of emotional pull.
Astons are becoming a little ubiquitous but they are special cars and still enormously cool.
Old Jags are beautiful and exude class. Modern Jags are an aberration (actually pretty good cars buut impossible to see why anyone would buy one given the competition).
Porsches are basically a way of flagging male inadequacy.
Lexus drivers are a naughty word.
493- Anybody up for a little electoral reform, Lib Dem/Laboue style?
Oh - and the manner of Mr Akhtar’s selection - fairly or unfairly - led to him being considered “the Pakistani candidate” rather than “the Tory candidate”.
It is in marked contrast to the spirit of the consensus-building broad church Cameroon approach. It certainly goes against the ethos of the individuality and aversion vote-bank collectivist politics that the Conservatives claim (falsely, of course) to shun.
@497:
It’s easy to say that now you don’t employ arch-homo-obsessive wingnut Richard Littlejohn at The Sun.
486 - TimT
We just won’t know the answer to that question until the General Election.
The evidence that I’ve seen from various elections generally seems to suggest a fairly large number of Labour voters staying at home. There are some exceptions, mainly in local by-elections.
Whether these people will come out at the General Election will only be known after the event. I don’t think that elections like this one give much of an indication either way.
[486,495] - According to Wiki, Labour only polled 10.9% last time, so a score of ~9% this time isn’t that much worse for them.
It’s a strong result for the Lib Dems, but it doesn’t reflect much deterioration in Labour’s position [which was dire to start with].
503. Presumably you are happy to see #thedailymailisgay trending very heavily then.
lol.
Nick Clegg:
“Shockingly bad result for the Conservatives.
I know David Cameron, George Osborne are sort of measuring up the curtains before they think they can move into Downing Street.
But if they’re still losing to the Liberal Democrats in one of their heartland areas, in the south of England, it shows a General Election is far from being a foregone conclusion.”
http://www.libdems.org.uk/news_detail.aspx?title=Sensational_Liberal_Democrat_victory_in_Bedford_Mayoral_elections&pPK=05a105d6-f023-4a70-b9bf-b80262340661
493. “Lefties unite against the tories - it’s 1978 all over again.
Only way to stop this is to vote tory it seems.”
But what you seem to be complaining about is Labour supporters voting Lib Dem, and who got what they voted for…ie. a Lib Dem mayor. If they’d wanted a Tory mayor I’m sure the people of Bedford would have voted for one, the procedure isn’t that complicated.
490 EdP. It’s my third A8. Never had a single problem. Outstanding build quality and more discrete than many other luxury barges. My real joys though are my two classic cars.
Labour came fifth in held seat and Tories failed to win in the Home counties when opinion polls say they should have romped it.
Will Gordo or Khamereon claim to have exerted the most influence?
479. Mayorals are different- in a way it’s what they’re designed for. Indepedents do very, very well, and votes of people who seem unlikely to win get badly, badly squeezed.
As I say, when you’ve been beaten badly by a man in a monkey suit in a safe Labour seat, you begin to get a bit of perspective on mayoral elections.
Take hartlepool this year - the Tories came seventh below UKIP, BNP Labour and three independents with only a 1000 votes. This is a seat where they got 10,000 in 1997.
The Libdems fared even worse, coming a staggering 11th, with less than 500 votes, after getting nearly 11,000 in the 2005 General Election.
I don’t think the result will be the same in the General.
Argh let me try 506 again.
Oh - and the manner of Mr Akhtar’s selection - fairly or unfairly - led to him being considered “the Pakistani candidate” rather than “the Tory candidate”.
It is in marked contrast to the spirit of the consensus-building, broad church, Cameroon approach. It certainly goes against the ethos of individuality and aversion to vote-bank collectivist politics that the Conservatives claim (falsely, of course) to shun.
gabble, a serious question, how old are you?
494. Looks like Ed to me.
Well, herd.
I hate to say “tim told you so” but…
515: A voice of reason Hopi.
Take it for what it is…a good result for Libs, not good for Torys, very poor for Labour.
Expanding it outward is idiotcy however.
@517:
Born 21st May, 1948
Just to get past the elephant in the room moment, is this really a surprise? Tory regular voters refuse to back a non-white Tory candidate? Shock!!!
Morus “even Daily Mail readers think it is bigoted and beyond the pail? ”
Shurely you mean ‘pale’ rather than ‘a bucket’
A very, very bad result for the Conservatives. Only tempered by the fact that Labour did far, far worse. But for sure, in a seat like Bedford, when the government is so deeply unpopular, the Tories need to urgently find out what has gone wrong here.
507 - I think once you’ve read Littlejohn for a year you have read every article he’s ever written.
I’m not one-eyed enough to say I like everything in the paper I work for.
But I think Littlejohn’s natural home is the Mail. The Sun (and Times) have Clarkson, a much more amusing rant.
523 - I think Moir might have kicked the journalistic bucket.
524. I’m not sure. TBH, I thought we’d do far worse and the Lib-Dems would win it by a country mile.
It was actually quite close.
Still, you are correct. It is disappointing and we should have won.
With an Open Primary we probably would have.
[520] - Expanding it outward is idiotcy however.
Agree with this, but, I think this result is in some ways worse for the Tories than Labour.
Labour’s vote is not much different to last time. They were flattened, as they knew they would be. The Tories, however, came second last time, ahead of the Lib Dems who were in third.
It’s never good to lose to someone who started off behind you.
522: I don’t think you can say anything as crass and simplistic.
You might as well say ‘labour voters prefer white canditate over asian canditate’.
Would that be fair?
Carbon Capture folderol gets approval from EU.
Sounds like it will be built at Thorpe Marsh.
519 Martin C - Quite so. But I’m not sure there’s any wider significance to this, other than the lesson not to make a pig’s ear of the selection process.
Hopi is right at 515, especially since the Independent who did very well is old local Labour figure.
Could be a betting opportunity on Bedford if the odds shift too far towards the LibDems.
522 Are you saying that Tories are all white supremacists? Stupid and nasty.
Meanwhile we have been voting in the Estonian municipal elections: I voted online for the first time. Expecting a very strong vote for the Centre Party (Social Liberal/Populist), but both IRL (liberal Conservatives) and the governing Reform (Economic Liberal) parties have some hopes, The Social Democrats and the Greens may fall back and the Agrarian National League may not survive at all. Reform will however be weaker in places like Tartu since so many of their local leaders are now in the government. All quite exciting really.
Still pleased about Bedford in UK though.
529 - yes, it’s a simplistic view, but there is no denying there is quite a substantial element within the Conservative vote that is a little more to the right than Cameron would care to admit. And I saw this is one of their activists. Heck, the number of Conservative core voters who still won’t bring themselves to vote for a woman is staggering…and that’s just the women!
Nothing really to say on this result as I don’t know Bedford politics at all and those local factors usually win out in mayoral races.
I once travelled through Bedford, it seemed quite nice (that’s the extent of my interest, sorry Bedfordians!)
522 Neil
I think it was undoubtably a factor - but in a much less simplistic way than simple “racism”.
I don’t think that would have been a big problem had Mr Akhtar not gone out of his way to point out the elephant during his selection process though.
If he had been selected by a more representative electorate, I doubt his origins would have become much of an issue.
The fact that the selection was slagged off by other Conservatives in emails leaked to the local press (albeit candidates who had lost to Mr Akhtar in the open caucus) also gave amplified this angle.
519 - Martin, they obviously didn’t order enough samosas at the polling booths…
532 - as I mentioned in 534, there is still an element within the vote who live in the 1950s. In the home counties especially. Clearly I’m not suggesting the whole lot, or anywhere near the majority, but to pretend it doesn’t exist would be a lie.
491,I hope the bedford tories watch what clegg said,because this man rubs me up the wrong way every time I watch him.I was going to say well done on the lib dem victory but watching clegg give is smug victory speech,you lib dems can go whistle
534: And there are some labour voters which are the same and not different from the BNP. And some nasty anti-semites in the liberal party etc etc…All parties have their extreme elements.
Again…you have a point?
PCC received 800 complaints over the Jan Moir article.
538 And that’s why Labour are having problems in Barnsley for example with the BNP and why the LDs have no BME MPs?
Be careful when you throw around the ‘fear of others’ card - it applies to many people regardless of their voting intention.
Interesting that David Brooks in the New York Times today has an article focusing pretty much totally on George Osborne.
Brooks is a credible commentator on the right and seems to get it, even then I don’t think he appreciates the importance of the social welfare message that Osborne gave.
“But Britain has hit its reality moment. The Brits are ahead of us when it comes to public indebtedness and national irresponsibility. Spending has been out of control for longer and in a more sustained way.
But in that country, the climate of opinion has turned. There, voters are ready for a politician willing to face reality. And George Osborne, who would become the chancellor of the Exchequer in the likely event that his Conservative Party wins the next election, has aggressively seized the moment.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/16/opinion/16brooks.html?_r=1
I’ve just had a look back at the 2007 mayoral election in Bedford, and was actually quite surprised how similar the result was between the three main parties. On first preferences:
Conservative - 2007 24.6% - 2009 25.9%
Lib Dem - 2007 24.2% - 2009 26.8%
Labour - 2007 10.9% - 2009 9.9%
Very little movement really. As a Conservative it’s disappointing that we didn’t improve our share much from 2007 though.
In 2007, the Conservatives did slightly better on second prefs than we did this time (41% as opposed to 37%), but again, not much in it.
Martin Day glad to have you back
Bedford = well done the LibDems not a good result for we Tories
Daily Mail, disgusting article by Jan Moir getting the works by SKY News and PPC complaints.
Cars? Saab or Subaru of course
535. I don’t really know Bedford either, but I would have thought its the sort of place you’d expect the Conservatives to be steaming ahead in at this point in the Parliament?
I await OGH’s POV with interest.
538 Neil - On the other hand that applies to other parties as well. I have a friend who is very much Old Labour, whose views seem to be tending more and more towards those of the BNP. I suspect he’s not the only one.
510 - #thedailymailisgay has a circular irony that is pretty amusing!
New flat in Regent’s Park? Is this as a result of the ABC interest?
Need to run to class - congrats to the Lib Dems, not sure what this means for Open Primaries now…
523 - Mea maxima culpa!
499 Christina
Did you follow my link the other night to <a href=”Yester House”> in Gifford, East Lothian. If you call up the floor plan and look at the basement you will find all kind of names for wonderful country house rooms, from scullery onwards. The house is so grand it may even make Easterross jealous!
Jack - only the one classic here.
A slightly more optimistic way of looking at the Bedford result is that about half of voters backed candidates with very “ethnic” names.
541. Where did you get that number from Gabs? If true thats really good news and should be enough to send a message loud and clear to Ms Moir and the Mail.
[545] Saab or Subaru!?! You’re not a proper Tory at all
In Aberdeenshire it is usually a very battered Land Rover Defender for Tories and some kind of saloon- say a Vauxhall or Ford- from Lawrence of Kemnay for the Lib Dems. The Nats of course would prefer a T-34 Tank. While Labour seem to take an Alexanders Bus.
Bedford result on BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8311065.stm
“Lib Dems claim victory in Bedford mayor race”
http://www.24dash.com/news/Local_Government/2009-10-16-Lib-Dems-claim-victory-in-Bedford-mayor-race
@541:
Given that Ms Moir’s been trending all day, I’m surprised it’s not a little higher.
Maybe we’ll make a grand by teatime.
552. GIN
SkyNews
For what it’s worth I think open primaries are an excellent idea except when you have a group of people who will refuse to accept the result and poison the subsequent campaign. It’s an open opportunity for a party faction to hurt their supposed own.
IF your a tory or a floating voter,please watch cleggs victory speech on 491,would like your views,my view - smug tw*t
553 - I saw a fine “heavily patina-ed” Mk 1 t’other day. No tilt and windscreen folded. Marvellous!
gabble, did the libdems win in Bedford? Do you have a link to any news organisations that may have the stunning news?
556 Martin C - Or by dinner time.
Very good result for the Libs, disappointing for the Tories.
Though Nick Clegg seems to have gone into ‘Dunny-on-the-Wold by-election = General Election’ mode, for some reason.
I think we need to start getting a separate count for the postal votes.
According to LTL’s link in 554 27% of votes cast were postal. Though I’m sure things were above board in Bedford, generally, I am deeply, deeply distrustful of this system.
There is an obvious tension between integrity of the ballot and turnout. I think, again speaking generally, the pendulum has swung too far towards encouraging turnout (even though the turnout in Bedford was relatively low).
OGH was at the Conservative selection and posted up his impressions from that process.
1. The process was delayed because of the arrival of a stream of mainly asian people (from the photos).
2. The final endorsement of the chosen candidate (by members only) was undertaken in a chaotic fashion.
Whoever was in charge of this should have been fired for maladministration. It tainted the Conservative candidate who OGH said was the best on the night. If his supporters did bus them in, well it back fired.
The LDs got a white local council Leader and won. No surprise but a setback for our society. The LDs actually have the smallest % of ethnic candidates in the main 3 UK parties.
561. d(too)
The LibDems won, Labour won, the independents won. In fact, all the people within and without Bedford won.
Everybody hates tories, except tories.
564 - yes it would be interesting to get the breakdown for postal votes rather than people playing the guessing game and jumping to conclusions.
Gabble
That reminds me of my team’s signature song: ‘No-one likes us, no-one likes us, no-one likes, we don’t care.”
Vote LD, get Labour.
gabble, I’m guessing about 19, goes to the local “college” studying leisure and tourism. If that is not accurate you should be ashamed of yourself, because that is the impression you give.
565. “The LDs got a white local council Leader and won. No surprise but a setback for our society. The LDs actually have the smallest % of ethnic candidates in the main 3 UK parties.”
The last point, if true, may well be a ’setback for our society’, but I’m not sure how the result of a democratic election can be described in that way. That’s as silly as what Jeremy Paxman said to George Galloway after he won Bethnal Green & Bow.
Sarkozy has ruled out sending any more troops to Afghanistan, joining a growing group of countries that are turning increasingly cold toward the war effort:
http://www.france24.com/en/20091015-france-president-nicolas-sarkozy-interview-no-extra-troops-afghanistan
566,me not a tory,but I will be voting for them at the GE,so your wrong again gabble me old son,keep trying
568. astateofdenmark: “Vote LD, get Labour.”
It’s worked for me in the last 3 GEs!
569 – Don’t credit Gabble with ‘immaturity’ he is plain dishonest and a troll.
542. Plato I do hate the term BME!
“Minority ethnic” makes no sense whatsoever. It should me “Ethnic Minority”.
571
Said last night “not a single extra soldier for Afghanistan”.
I wonder if he is doing Brown’s work for him…
Shit Fan Hit on the way,
BREAKING NEWS:
High Court rules that details relating to the treatment of Binyam Mohamed can be released
I think you have to draw a big distinction between an “open Primary” and an “open caucus”.
An Open primary, where everyone gets a ballot is a fantastic idea, but is expensive to run, and you have to be careful about preventing it turning into a fiundraising/media management contest - the Tories did this pretty well in the one they did, but as you expanded it out, you could easily see somone dropping 20k on an open primary selection campign with Direct mails, adverts, etc etc, if this wasn’t prevented.
An open caucus, on the other hand, basically just turns a selection into an exercise in voter mobilisation. If we did this in the labour party, you’d find union support would become completely crucual in many seats, as they could supply people to help with getting people to meetings, would provide a ready made list of people to contact to send in proxy votes, etc etc.
I’m nuch less convinced by “open caucuses” - and the tory selection in Bedford did nothing to make me any less sceptical. (I don’t think the tory candidate did anything wrong, just that the system invites you bus people in)
More on the power of Twitter, older commuter is threatened by TFL worker with being thrown under a train - yup, that’s what he said…
http://www.jonathanmacdonald.com/?p=4024
542. Plato I do hate the term BME!
“Minority ethnic” makes no sense whatsoever. It should me “Ethnic Minority”.
by Sunil Prasannan October 16th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
I hate the term as well. Will be a much better place to live when the only description for people living here permanently is British.
545. Easterross
Thank You!
580
How do you define permanently when a ‘life sentence’ is 15 years
471 - jsfl - Nadine Dories on Twitter
“Parvez lost. Bedford now has a Lib Dem Mayor committed to raising council tax.”
I mis-read your original post, it’s Dave Hogson the New mayor that has said he will raise council tax. Interesting. Still well done LD’s.
580 Or Scottish, if you are Stuart.
These aren’t nearly as bad as they could have been:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/6346568/Olympic-logos-unveiled.html#
578
I agree. A caucus might work in a small tight knit community, say a village. But in a constituency of 60-120 thousand people it is impractical and inappropriate.
Worth experimenting, but the faults in the system are now very clear.
581. Welcome back Martin. It’s like Nelson Mandela walking free from Robben Island!
566 Since you’re here Gabble, perhaps you can tell us whether anyone in the Labour government is going to resign over this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8307860.stm
I mean, burning £680 million pounds is a bit careless, is it not? How can Labour possibly ask electors to vote for them when they are so spectacularly incompetent?
I have reinvested my Bedford winnings on the Tories getting less than 100 majority at the GE at 4/7. Still a reasonable value bet IMO.
581,martin,my message on 430
582, When they have taken up British citizenship and expressed a desire to spend the greater portion of their life here. Many thousands of people are studying to become British citizens as we speak. One of the proudest days of their lives will be when they are declared to be British, the least we can do is call them British.
583. Indeed it will be interesting to see how much he raises it…..
579. God, that video is shocking. I hope the guy stood his ground and refused to get off the train.
575 Me too - I find it immensely patronising to lump a whole load of peeps into one group. What similarities do Caribbean, Chinese, Eskimo immigrants have with each other?
IME it’s all about culture - hence Poles are much more likely to be anti gay/abortion just like those from other socially conservative cultures such as Islamic countries.
There is no correlation between their skin colour.
458 Hopi Sen - “Oh, as for Bedford- it’s a mayoral. Having worked on campaigns where we’ve been soundly beaten by a rogue cop, a monkey and a tory (Not unusual, except the previous Tory had been arrested for child abuse)”
And subsequently comprehensively cleared, I am sure you also meant to type……
“Parvez lost. Bedford now has a Lib Dem Mayor committed to raising council tax”
That sort of comment annoys me innordinately. Perhaps that’s what the voters wanted.
576- I think the French have just about had it with Afghanistan and Sarkozy is responding to that sentiment. A recent, highly emotional service for several killed French soldiers at which Sarkozy himself spoke, and which was broadcast on national television, is emblematic of the mood there.
546: ‘I don’t really know Bedford either, but I would have thought its the sort of place you’d expect the Conservatives to be steaming ahead in at this point in the Parliament?’
No, no. I have it on good authority that Bedford is soul-destroying, grime-smeared hellhole populated by chavs and derelicts - the Dewsbury of East Anglia. I’m surprised the BNP don’t have a larger presence.
587 - I doubt Mandela would be happy at being compared with at someone who said such disgusting racist comments, no matter under how much pressure they felt.
595. Absolutely. My point was merely that at that point he hadn’t been cleared, and having your previous candidate having to resign because they’ve been charged with child abuse is something voters often (irrationally) punish the next candidate with- so the fact that the Tories easily won the by-election was good news for them and bad news for us.
He was, as you say, found not guilty and completely innocent of all charges.
Welcome back Martin Day
“Lib Dems in the Bedford Van”
581…keeping well,i trust?
Bedford - Stupid self inflicted wound by the Tories.
Derek Hatton packed meetings but wasn’t stupid enough to announce it in the press.
589 - Total mess.
End all farm subsidies tomorrow.
501. Using McBride tactics again I see….
600. In fairness, I don’t think Nelson Mandela is a regular pb reader. I also think he’s probably been around the block a few times and is familiar with irony.
Jan Moir appears to have a spoof Tw@t account
http://twitter.com/janmoir
599. Since when was Bedfordshire part of East Anglia?
604 Derek Hatton drove a BMW (6 series IIRC, registration number DEG 5Y)
544 Interesting. I see that of the parties standing the Conservatives were the biggest loser in terms of votes lost compared with 2007 (down 1605).
609 - Surprisingly private number plates weren’t in that chav quiz.
They have to be, next to Burberry caps, the ultimate.
606 tim - It’s not possible to end farm subsidies without the consent of our European friends, which will not be forthcoming (although Blair could have got some concessions, if he’d bothered to try).
Given that, we should at least administer the damned thing properly, and not get ourselves fined by the EU for our Labour’s incompetence.
David Milliband has said he will appeal the High Court ruling on the release of the terror files. Clearly the government is wanting to cover up the fact it has condoned torture
Well, that panned out pretty much as we all expected…apart from Labour coming in 5th.
I’m surprised it hasn’t been deemed more news-worthy. We had a bit on the local news this morning, but I haven’t really seen anything else today. It isn’t even one of the main headlines on the BBC politics page (half way down the “other top stories” section).
604,tim said - bedford - ’stupid self inflicted wound by the tories.’,bloody hell I agree.
581. don
My “BME” point was strictly about grammar, rather than “Britishness”
@604:
I have to admit, tim. You’re not being as unbearable as I expected, being as you have been proven ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, and the herd been proved HILARIOUSLY WRONG.
Start crowing, dammit.
I spent some of my time in the Army not far from Bedford. The town itself a mix of souless and quaint, which is quite an achievement in one place. The surrounding areas are very nice, but very suburban.
I would rather live in Bedford than Welwyn. Luton is the real shithole in the area.
516 - it should be BAOEM
“Mandelson condemns Cameron for his ‘pathological aversion to reality’”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/oct/16/peter-mandelson-davidcameron
I think this tweet sums up the feelings about Jan Moir:
“EmilyLottie Let’s murder Jan Moir in her sleep and then write a sleazy article on how she took drugs and had sex with anonymus young men on holiday.”
608: ‘Since when was Bedfordshire part of East Anglia?’
It appears to be in East Anglia according to this map, but I’m no geographer.
http://www.findamarket.net/features/assets/images/east-anglia-map.gif
Sunil, I stand corrected. Still believe it will be a much nicer place to live when nobody gives a toss what you look like.
Link to Torture Document Story,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8311075.stm
Off topic, but when are the next polls due? Any for the Sundays?
620.This is our Lord Mandy of the untruth speaking, spinning here.
611 - tim, I think private plates have their own class hierarchy.
You can’t compare a numberplate like P7 which was on a 1903 De Dion and has been passed down the family with a novelty plate like K155 ASS or MY59 BMW
@620:
Well, I congratulate reality for its pathological aversion to Mandelson.
FPT Political/economic reasons behind decline of Scottish football are:
declining population (birthrate lower and lower inward migration of young people) - can be related to industrial decline from 1970 onwards but economic vandalism of Thatcher in the 80s accelrated this;
decline in schools football following teachers’ strike in 1984 and subsequent work to rule. This had adevasting effect on my generation - I’m 32, look at the national team at the moment - it still had older folk like David Weir in his late 30s and the rest are all 20 - 26. The only player of note in the age range 30 - 34 is Barry Ferguson and, while OK, he’s not exactly worldclass.
And that tube video linked to above is an absolute disgrace.
Have we seen this?
http://hottestheadsofstate.wordpress.com/list/
Aside from the fact they’re mostly heads of government, I think Johnanna Siggusadottir of Iceland has been hard done by, as has the President of Madagascar.
622. That’s the government ‘eastern region’. Which is not the same thing, although there is an annoying official tendency to confuse the two.
Comparing Martin Day to a convicted terrorist ? Shame on you
“Mandelson condemns Cameron for his ‘pathological aversion to reality’”
Uh-huh. This must be a new reality yet to be released on the masses, as I seem to recall it was Labour that avoided the reality of the economy during its conference.
gabble, you are aware that you can’t trust anything in the newspaper aren’t you?
Jan Moir is still digging
“…Twitter is also humming with comments about the incident, pushing ‘Jan Moir’ to the top of the trending topics.
Jan Moir has since issued a statement in defence of her piece, in which she claimed it is “mischievious in the extreme to suggest that my article has homophobic and bigoted undertones” and described the internet campaign as “heavily orchestrated”.
She said: “When I wrote that ‘he would want to set an example to any impressionable young men who may want to emulate what they might see as his glamorous routine’, I was referring to the drugs and the casual invitation extended to a stranger. Not to the fact of his homosexuality.
“In writing that ‘it strikes another blow to the happy-ever-after myth of civil partnerships’ I was suggesting that civil partnerships - the introduction of which I am on the record in supporting - have proved just to be as problematic as marriages.”
http://www.brandrepublic.com/News/946413/MailOnline-ads-pulled-columnist-Jan-Moirs-article-amid-gay-backlash/
622. It depends, some consider Beds East Anglia and some don’t. I’m from South Cambridgeshire and consider this to be as far West as East Anglia goes.
I can tell you that Beds is nowehere near as ‘traditionally Tory’ as Herts and Cambs.
623. Don
I think Ali G had it right: “I is British”
595. Plato
Yes, I agree with that!
622 East Anglia is comprised of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire.
620 It sounds as though Mandy wants to defect to the Tories:
But statism, a belief in standardised, mass-produced public services and the centralising instinct that says that the man in Whitehall knows best – these things are obstacles to thinking about the necessary role of government in a modern economy.
Cameron couldn’t have put it any better. Someone just needs to tell Brown that Labour’s policy is now to follow the Conservatives.
594:
Now a national story and guard suspended:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8310436.stm
Moral: use the Internet and always go to the press.
“For the sake of the American economy, we must hope that Osborne’s delusions do not win a wider audience.”
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/fourth-estate/2009/10/osborne-economic-david-brooks
609 - I remember reading recently (but can’t find it at this moment) that the BMW 3 series now outsells the Ford Mondeo in the UK.
630. Gordon in at 84!
Martin,
Welcome back. Hope life is rather more, er, balanced for you now.
Just keep the hand-brake on before you engage typing fingers and press send, eh?
Awaiting more Turner prize-winning art to grace the place….
Since we’re of a geeky bent here…
Jan Moir’s failure, in statistics:
http://is.gd/4mCOM
I see that Ladbrokes now make the Lib Dems second favourites to win Bedford at the general election. The incumbent Labour MP is 9/2.
Scroll down for DEG 5Y in all his glory, though I see he’d changed to a Jag by then.
Jan Moir is still digging
“…Twitter is also humming with comments about the incident, pushing ‘Jan Moir’ to the top of the trending topics.
Jan Moir has since issued a statement in defence of her piece, in which she claimed it is “mischievious in the extreme to suggest that my article has hom*phobic and big*ted undertones” and described the internet campaign as “heavily orchestrated”.
She said: “When I wrote that ‘he would want to set an example to any impressionable young men who may want to emulate what they might see as his glamorous routine’, I was referring to the dr*gs and the casual invitation extended to a stranger. Not to the fact of his hom*sexu@lity.
“In writing that ‘it strikes another blow to the happy-ever-after myth of civil partnerships’ I was suggesting that civil partnerships - the introduction of which I am on the record in supporting - have proved just to be as problematic as marriages.”
http://preview.tinyurl.com/janmoirishorriblehag
Can’t find a source but rumours on Twitter that Cameron has to pay back £18.16 following Legg.
641 - An achievement made all the more remarkable by the fact he isn’t head of state.
*** NEW THREAD ***JARHEAD - Day Ten
Timeline : Friday 16th April 7.27pm
Location : Suite 615 Park Lane Hotel London SW1
Dramatis Personae - A PB Legend.
…………………………………………
The stockings were supreme in their quality, the finest and the most alluring any woman might desire. She ran them over her left hand three times and then more. The feeling of these silk tempters shot through her whole body and she threw her head back and groaned with pleasure.
The fine, honed and desirable leg stretched out toward the dressing table. Slowly, surely and with finesse the stocking cascaded all over that leg and was clipped to the black suspenders. She got up and sipped some pink champagne. She loved bubbles and all this was courtesy of the TV debates between the party leaders and £7,500 of winnings.
She had been right all along. The number of debates, the hosts and the formats - Two debates each lasting two hours, Dimbleby, Paxman and Kate Burley as hosts to be shown on any channel that wanted the live feed. The first debate on Thursday 22nd April and the second, one week later and also just one week out from the election. And here she was in one of the swankiest London hotels drinking vintage champagne before attending a special invite only and very private PB function.
She slipped into the classic Valentino black cocktail dress - sheer elegance, sheer style, sheer bloody marvellous. She had chosen some fine jewelry too - A platinum, diamond and black opal cocktail ring with matching brooch and ear-rings. The shoes by Jimmy Choo were red and black patent and set the whole ensemble off with a sense of drama and verve.
The lady wanted more of this and mused on the prospects. She had laid out almost £35,000 on various outcomes of this general election and the prospects looked good. Most polls were steady showing the Conservatives holding a consistent twelve point lead or so. Most polls …. the latest ICM was out of kilter :
Con 37% .. Lab 30% .. LibDem 22%.
It was only one poll but she had always regarded ICM as the gold standard. Their fieldwork was the most recent and the 3,000 sample was much higher than usual. Still she thought, it was at the edge of the margin of error of the other polls and she couldn’t determine any reason why this poll should move away from the Tories. She determined not to worry about it, especially tonight. Yes tonight was a night of celebration and utter indulgence and nothing, nothing was going to rain on her parade.
She turned on the television - Channel Four News with Jon Snow discussing the lastest poll - that ICM poll. Zap !! Off went the box. The telephone rang. A clear voiced intoned - “Your car madam.” Yes and what a car. It was time.
The sable fur slipped onto her shoulders and she skipped to the lift with nothing but hedonistic pleasure framing her demeanour. The snatched admiring glances as she progressed the foyer made her inwardly very very happy. Here she was on the verge of a great new adventure.
The chauffeur saluted and opened the door to the 1962 Bentley Continental. She slipped into the back of car and sprawled over the smooth dark blue hide seats. She opened her Versace clutch bag, took out an Asprey gold compact and looked into the mirror, pursed her lips and smiled broadly. She was moments from the inaugral gathering of the PB Cross Dressing Club. The Bentley eased away and Peter the Punter closed the compact clasp tightly shut.
poll alert - early warning
————————–
a surprising one as well - you gov have a welsh poll published on tuesday - with voting intentions, opinions on welsh labour leadership and devolution.
long overdue and very welcome
My lawyers will be in touch.
621.
“Lord Mandelson delivered one at the Said Business School in Oxford today.”
Is that the school where you have to deposit a camel load of brown envelopes to be allowed in? Or was it a misprint of the Sad Business School?
In the immortal words of Sheikh Fredi Flintstoni:
“Al Yamamayabadabadooodoo!”
It was the Sun wat lost it
Last 3 NJ Gubernatorial race polls
NYT Corzine +1 (daggett 14)
SurveyUSA Christie +1 (Daggett 18!)
Rasmussen Christie +4 (Daggett 9)
Rasmussen has a good record but usually weights more heavily for Republicans actually voting. As S&S and PM have both pointed out, in NJ that is unlikely to be the case.
tim for F’s sake stop. You are in ubertroll mode.
When you are like this, you come across as an unfunny, less sympathetic version of Martin Day.
sympathetic
Martin Day