The blues open up a 23 point gap in England
October 21st, 2009
CON 47 (+8)
LAB 24 (-1)
LD 21 (-3)
How many more marginals does this put at risk?
At the start of September we launched the first of the “Battle-Ground England” poll results which are being provided by MORI on an exclusive basis. The comparisons above are with the last MORI poll taken just after the Liberal Democrat conference.
What the firm is doing is running a special calculation for PB allowing us to make more specific projections for where most of the key seats are.
This is important because England has 533 of the 650 seats that will be at stake at the election and proportionately more marginals than in the others parts of the UK. Also in England there is not the SNP/PC dimension which adds to the challenge of making seat predictions.
Last night we had the overall GB MORI figures pointing to an overall LAB>CON swing in Britain of about 10%. On the basis of these England only numbers then the current swing is 2 - 3 points 1.25% higher bringing many more marginals into the frame.
Mike Smithson
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Wow.
WOWOWWOW
Damn.
47%?
ENGLAND PWNS J00.
Wow indeed. On this showing Labour will be heading for 150 seats or less, no?
FPT. Re Caroline Flint on the Daily Politics - her hair is surely far too long for a wimmin of her age. And it would be even if she’d remembered to brush it this morning.
I still would though.
There really is a fair chance that labour could be third in England, especially if they lose votes to others.
Betting market anyone?
By the way, and off topic, a Best Actress Oscar nomination should be going to Carey Mulligan for ‘An Education’, get your money on now if you can!
Not a problem for Labour.
Between tim-stylee dogwhistling of muslim jew-haters, plus a bit of traditional Labour postal vote fraud, there will be a Labour landslide in England next year.
Plugging into Baxter and scaling down to the English-only seats, Dave would have a 190 majority in England (!).
FPT 491 BFB. Missed this from yesterday, what with all the polling excitement !!
Bedford Tories Wield The Axe :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8317298.stm
Lots of clear blue water. The LibDems are going to be really squeezed - could be back to the minibus days. Labour could be left with Londonistan, a few seats in inner cities and the rump of the North-East strongholds. We could even see a BNP seat or two as alienated Labour voters finally rebel.
And how many of those marginals may fall to the LDs? There certainly comes a stage where, if the LD share remains the same, but the Tory vote rises, many Labout seats where the Tories are a distant 3rd could go LD.
I accept that this will also see LD losses in other parts of the country unless the incumbant effect comes into play.
We could see a similar number of LD seats as now but with significant gains and losses.
7, be staggered if that happens.
8, landslide, no. But as I’ve said often: every other party should keep their bloody eyes on the electoral registers.
On the poll: Mwahahahahahahahahahaha. All your constituencies are belong to Cameron. Not even Ceiling Cat could save you now.
English Parliament now. Self government for everyday life, domestic issues just like Scotland has.
And 8% for others. How does this fit in to other GB-wide polls?
Certainly there does seem to be quite a lot of evidence from different sources which supports the view that the Conservatives are winning support in the key English target seats. This should certainly be borne in mind in betting, as it is likely to produce better results than UNS predicts.
Factor in the Marginals poll, VIPA, consistent poll leads, and what appear to be favourable regional swings in England, and draw your own conclusion!
14 only fair imo
Guthrie wades into BNP / army row:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6394360/BNP-General-Lord-Guthrie-backs-hijack-claims.html
Although probably best not to try too hard to dissociate the BNP from the Duke of Wellington.
Welly once said that the only thing Irish soldiers needed to make them the best in the world was “white officers”. He also maintained that although born in Ireland he wasn’t Irish, just as “if a dog’s born in a stable that doesn’t make it a horse”. I have heard the latter argument used by Bernard Manning.
Not at all clear what the BNP / Griffin’s problem is with foreign-born soldiers in the British army. Does anyone know?
2005 result for England only was Con 35.7% Lab 35.2% LD 22.9% therefore swing 11.25% is only just over 1% higher than UK wide swing rather than Mike’s guesstimate of 2-3%
19. so including swingback it’s unchanged on 2005 then…
18 i believe he wants to replace muslims with gurkas .
Really workable that isn’t it?
19 even 1% more is significant given the ratio of England pop to uk population
11
That’s what Hain et al were preparing for; they want the BNP heretics massacred as a warning not to stray from the true Labour path.
18. Does it matter quite what kind of warped logic he deploys?
The Populus data tables for their last poll are now up on their website . There is a small change in their past vote weightings from the September poll which stopped the LibDem figure rising from 18 to 19% .
re 19. Thanks Mark - I tried to do it without a calculator!!
It’s beginning to look a light Christmas…!
(sing along to appreciate the full effect
)
(Reposted from previous thread) AWS is simply a profoundly non-Tory way of doing things. I don’t like the precedent it sets and makes many past battles against “positive” discrination that we have fought come to nought. Supposedly Cameron is keen to upset the Tory blogging community but Why? Ok right now the grass is green and everything is rosy but he will need as many allies as possible in the stormy years to come so why alienate them now? It’s not as if you will get any appreciation from the Labour Party or the liberal media for this (Caroline Flint’s reaction today being typical).
21
These are all soldiers from what were parts of the Empire - except for the Gurkhas…
(well I’ll walk to t’foot of our stairs)
So on this basis, Labour are doing better in Scotland, and wont lose that many suits to the SNP?
But wow, 23%
I thought 17 was the magic number, Now it’s 23
So in England Lib + Lab < Con ?
Bit OT: regarding Irfan’s idea for raising funds.
Whilst I’m not a runner, I think it’s good that somebody’s trying to think of ways to help keep the site ticking over. Irfan’s an enthusiastic chap, and knocking him all the time’s not going to do much good, is it?
For what it’s worth, if we’re thinking of trying to raise funds I’d advocate picking an event (say, a tennis tournament or horse-racing event) and then promoting betting on it with X% of winnings being donated to pb.com. Top 3-10 (depending on participation) donors could then have their names enscribed for everlasting glory (
) in a permanent link, which would be archived with future such contests.
OMG. BBC weather report, “We have just seen a clap of thunder over Bristol.”
Must have 20:20 sight.
30. Which begs (once again) the question, what is the electoral maths that gives the SNP “20 seats and the balance of power”? Is it simply a figment of Salmond’s imagination?
33, could be a synaesthesiac meteorologist.
33
“On a clear day…”
24 It doesn’t matter if it demonstrably is warped, but what if it’s not? Griffin’s a Cambridge graduate. I suspect that to assume he’s stupid is a mistake on a par with tim’s assumption that Osborne is.
I can’t think of many armies in history that didn’t use foreign auxiliaries. Many indeed actually used foreign nationals within their own ranks. I’m struggling to see what the problem is with continuing to do so. Any non-UK-born recruit who’s served the Crown for X years has given a pretty convincing demonstration of respect for whatever values the BNP regards as British.
Wow and triple wow
36
Or if you prefer the Who:
“I can see for miles…”
28. “profoundly non-Tory” ? to me one of the highspots of the party’s glorious history is its resistance to the Reform Bill of 1832. I think on that precedent that the tory attitude to electoral matters can be summed up in one word: “whatever”.
[FPT]
A cliche which has yet to raise its ugly head is “Clause 4 moment” - is that what he is looking for? A suggestion made here recently which is good in theory but toxic in practice would be balanced mixed sex shortlists - toxic because under the present system you can just about argue that the women just aren’t coming forward, whereas balanced shortlists with men almost always winning (which is not a certainty but a clear possibility) would look terrible for the party. What I think might work however is a combination of balanced shortlists and open primaries in that a) there would probably not be a male bias in the eventual winner, b) if there is that is the fault of Joe Public not of the tory party.
34. Scott P.
At the moment, yes, it is.
Sorry to go off topic, but JackW posted this link FPT.
BBC - Group leader suspended by Tories
And that is why Cameron has raised the possibility of the AWS. The bottom line is that the Conservative Party has long had a weak flank open to media attacks about the party not being representative of the population, basically not enough women on its benches.
Its a problem he has been trying to address since he became leader, and he has two options to deal with that line of attack. Either he goes down the road of Labour with AWS, and has this open sore festering throughout his time as leader of his party, in or out of office. Bottom line, left to the old system, none of the parties will be able to address this problem in a meaningful way. Quite simple, more men than women apply to take on the arduous job of becoming a candidate, and more of them get picked.
Cameron’s idea to open the selection process in his own party is exactly the opposite of what Labour chose to do, and we all know how well that has gone down in some Conservative Associations. But it totally neuters the attacks on Cameron and his party when they attack the representation in their Parliamentary Party. Its local democracy at work. And that is why he has raised the possibility of AWS list right now. He has been left with a tasty pile of safe seats to fill before the next GE, and left to the old system, we all know what will happen and that is something that will come up time and again during the GE campaign if he doesn’t address it now.
By raising the least palatable option for Conservative associations, he is hoping they will opt for his more open and democratic preferred choice without a big fight as we saw in the Bedford Mayoral selection.
37. Warped and stupid are not the same thing, nor am I suggesting they are. Aren’t many serial killers, for example, of very high intelligence?
In the words of Shaggy Doo - ZOINKS!
37, going to Cambridge or Oxford doesn’t make you clever. I think Burnham went to one of them. However, I agree Griffin’s sly. His initial response (politicisation of the military) was worryingly clever, but then he buggered up with that Nazi war criminal idiocy.
30 - Suits = Seats.
Clearly I’ve got my suit on my mind,
Ascribing the old Tory/Whig parliamentary factions to the modern political parties is an exercise in futility, not least because the Conservative Party has Whig and Tory wings.
I consider myself a Whig.
7 Carey Mulligan is the big name up-and-coming actress in Hollywood right now. The camera just loves her. The Good Lady Marquee Mark was interested in using her for a project after she stole an episode of Dr. Who as Sally Sparrow. But she is now being lined up for some big high-budget projects. Well worth a shot for the Oscar.
Also for the Best Foreign, “Let the right one in” if it qualifies for this year (just missed qualifying by a few days last year). One of those films which is just a million times better in execution than the script must have read.
@48:
I totally wanted Sally Sparrow to be the Doctor’s new companion. DENIED.
48 - So did I.
Strange silence today from most of our Labour friends?
That’s a shame because I wanted to ask gabble and tim and Nick how the Official Labour H0m0ph0bic W@ff-en $$ Latvia Blah Blah Smearathon was going down.
There’s yet another article by Jonathan Freedland in the Groaniad, right now - wittering away about Eric Pickles hiding old Gestapo officers in his potting shed.
Oh dear.
Thing is, chaps, it just isn’t…. working is it? The Tories are 17 points ahead and cruising to victory. No matter how much you bang on and on and on and on - and on and on and on - about Kaminski this and Kerplunksky that, no-one is listening, because NO ONE CARES ABOUT EUROPE, as you once delightedly told us.
Indeed I reckon there’s a chance this desperate, cranky and obsessive bleating from the left is putting people off.
Do carry on the good work
42 - So basically the message to the safe seats that need to reselect and wish to select a bloke is -bring forward your selection procedure.
Or
A Bloke is for life, get one for Christmas.
There must be a masterplan because Dave is in essence just pretty great.
Strange silence today from most of our Labour friends?
That’s a shame because I wanted to ask gabble and tim and Nick how the Official Labour H0m0ph0bic W@ffen $$ Latvia Blah Blah Smearathon was going down.
There’s yet another article by Jonathan Freedland in the Groaniad, right now - wittering away about Eric Pickles hiding old Naz1s in his potting shed.
Oh dear.
Thing is, chaps, it just isn’t…. working is it? The Tories are 17 points ahead and cruising to victory. No matter how much you bang on and on and on and on - and on and on and on - no-one is listening, because NO ONE CARES ABOUT EUROPE, as you once delightedly told us.
Indeed I reckon there’s a chance this desperate, cranky and obsessive bleating from the left is putting people off.
Do carry on the good work
47 Martin C. “I consider myself a Whig.”
You are Michael Fabricant and I claim a rather fetching blonde hair piece for Mike Smithson !!
Crikey, that last post took ten minutes to get despammed. Just how many of tim’s favourite words are “pb non grata”?
53
You forgot the ‘easily washable synthetic’ between fetching and blonde
49, likewise. Martha was nice to look at, but not a good actress AND lumbered with being person-after-Rose.
I hope the writing improves now RTD has buggered off.
47. What kind of Whig? the Protestant exclusionist sort? the preserver of aristocratic privilege sort? the sympthiser with Jacobinism sort? The anti-Home Rule sort? Take your pick…
49/50 Martin/Scream. I wanted Anne Widdecombe as the Doctor’s new sidekick. She’d kick arse out of them daleks any day of the week !!
52 Indeed I reckon there’s a chance this desperate, cranky and obsessive bleating from the left is putting people off.
Do carry on the good work
Conclusion: SeanT can do irony!
Question: is there any documented evidence of a Conservative Association ever objecting to an all male shortlist?
51. tim “There must be a masterplan because Dave is in essence just pretty great.”
Well done! You are definitely learning. The political principle at work here is that with a SEVENTEEN POINT LEAD IN THREE OPINION POLLS you can do whatever the feck you want. Get used to it.
56 - Well the new producer of Dr Who, is Steven Moffat, the man who, amongst his other gems wrote the episode Blink, which introduce the lovely Carrie Mulligan as Sally Sparrow.
60, has any Association ever been forced to choose from an all-male shortlist?
52
Just so long as they don’t mention the secret Tory plan (already costed) to build shrines to Adolph Hitler in Town Halls, the length and breadth of Carmarthenshire
58 - Well she has been in an episode of Dr Who, I wasn’t impressed.
56 I would have thought being person after Rose would be an advantage - worst chav companion evah
Brown was OK today - fairly solid but lost his temper noticably twice - end of the Dave exchange (biscuit joke realy not very funny) and Michael Moore asking about pensions seemed to rile him up.
42 - Christina, I suspect you are right. I don’t deny that there are probably a few seats Cameron would like to see AWS in. But I also think this is a shot across the bow to the Associations who are still engaged in epic mucking about and dithering when it comes to picking their candidates.
63 MD. Up until 1918 all the time. After that in all but name.
6. John R: My wife saw Caroline’s hair, and the first comment she made was; “well she doesn’t know how to use hair straighteners properly”.
Nothing like a woman’s bitchiness ‘observation’
So this is compared to national figures of:
CON 43 LAB 26 LD 19
Polls like this will only make Gordon’s moment of triumph that much sweeter in May 2010.
62 TSE
I’m a life long Dr. Who fan and I think Blink rates up there in the top 5
62, aye, I know, but I still need to be convinced. The season finales in particular are a source of worry. RTD never made a good one, and somehow managed to completely ruin the last after doing a pretty first episode.
It needs to improve, otherwise it won’t have a longterm future. Too much nonsense trying to make the Doctor a romantic character, and if one more f***ing robot/cyborg gets killed by emotions I’ll add the writer of the episode to the space cannon list.
42 The Lib Dem benches aren’t exactly packed with women either and the Labour experiment has had mixed results. I suspect the tide towards selecting more women candidates in the Tory party is turning naturally anyway so I still can’t see the advantage here for Cameron.
72 - Same here, Mr Moffat has written some genius episodes.
73 - I think we’ll see the end of the Dr Who romance stories.
66, Rose is very popular with most viewers. The disadvantage I meant was that the Doctor was too busy moping about dreaming of Rose, and Martha was too much like Rose v2.
72, I loved the clever use of time travel in it
The first episode with Satan (The Impossible Planet, I think) was also pretty good.
73 it’s a children’s show MD, that many adults take a guilty pleasure in (me included) - thus it will continue to be crammed full of rubbish pop culture referneces and Tweenies morality
34. Scott, That must be about 20 times you have posted that , I presume there are a myriad of permutations that can make that happen, however the likeliest one is that there is a big swing Labour > SNP. It needs Labour and hopefully Lib Dems who are defecting to go to the SNP.
45 Griffin could be warped in the same way that all leftists are, but AFAIC, if he’s Oxbridge then it certainly rules out his being thick.
47. Not sure I completely agree there, quite a lot of (eg) Napeoleonic era Whig attitudes map onto those of the left in current times.
Eg Napoleonic was an existential threat to Britain, but Whigs idolised him and hating Wellington for beating him even though hee’d have repressed them too had he successfully invaded in 1804/5.
The comparisons with Reagan versus Communism, or with western values versus Islamofascism, or with Thatcher and the miners, are pretty obvious. In all cases, the Whig / leftist will expend their own country without a second thought.
Kenneth Clarke would appear to be a Whig, but most of them wear red rosettes these days.
62. …and he wrote the children’s drama Press Gang, surely up there with one of the greatest children’s programme gems of all time
77 Sorry are you talking about the modern Tory party or Dr Who?
56, yes, the writing was a bit thespy, wasn’t it?
52 - Whether it is working or not does not stop the fact that Cameron has decided to get into bed with some very questionable people in the European Parliament in order to throw the Tory Euro-sceptics a bone. Clearly it is not going to damage him in the UK because Labour is so hated, but it does have the potental to cause significant problems post-election when Cameron is in office. If the stories about the Americans being concerned are true - and this is now being reported in The Times, which cannot be described as Labour-supporting - then that has to be a worry for PM call me Dave. And if he wants to renegotiate the UK’s membership of the EU, having pissed off the likes of Merkel and Sarkozy is not going to help.
No-one is listening to a word the Labour Party is saying, but that does not make them incorrect on this issue.
One of the oddest things about the Speakers’ Conference were the demands for more gay MPs. We have Matthew Parris’s word for it that the proportion of MPs who are gay vastly exceeds the proportion of the population as a whole who are gay. How many more should there be?
On topic, I note that places like Sunderland Central, Stretford and Urmston, and Leicester South would fall on these figures.
76 Rose was never popular here, but yes popular generally.
The other problem is the ridiculous dead end theme of ‘Last of the Timelords’ - oh except for one, oh and all the enemies survived and keep surviving.
I expect this will be resolved before RTD ends his tenure and Moffat will have the choice of abandoning the incredibly boring slant.
Jonathan, I have a point though, do I not?
All this pricey newsprint and political sweat is being expended by Labour’s friends in the media, and to what effect? Zero. The Tory lead has, if anything, widened during this assault of the lefty euronutters.
So the campaign is a dud, and it makes people like Freedland look like idiots: because are so desperate.
An example. In today’s piece he basically says it should not be allowed to equate Stalinism with Nazism. It just can’t be done, and if you do it you are basically a Jew-hater, and should be shunned.
No kidding. That’s what he says:
“But the more obvious manifestation of this old-new nationalism is its desire to rewrite recent history. Steadily, eastern European governments have sought to craft a new, internationally accepted narrative in which the crimes of Nazism and Stalinism are regarded as equal, with, if anything, the latter as the greater evil..
“This is not the work of extremist parties on the lunatic fringe. The “International Commission for the Evaluation of the Crimes of the Nazi and Soviet Occupation Regimes in Lithuania” – whose very name implies moral equivalence and which omits the actions of Lithuanians themselves – sits inside the prime minister’s office. The motive is not hard to fathom.”
So that’s official, that’s the Guardian line to take. Lithuanians themselves are not allowed to decide how they approach Lithuanian history, and if they deviate from the path dictated by Freedland and his lefty friends, they are obviously Fascists, coz we all know Hitler was much much worse than Stalin: it is a mathematical truth.
Freedland used to be a sensible journalist. This kind of crap diminishes him, and this whole Waffen SS campaign is diminishing the left.
But as I said, in irony!, do carry on guys, if you want.
The SNP aspiration of holding the balance of power is a high wire act. Personally, I think the Tories will win by a landslide which would put any potential of holding the balance of power etc beyond the reach of any party.
While Labour supporters might delight in the SNP’s electoral strategy gone wrong, it is increasingly looking as though they are heading for a monumental thrashing.
In the long term, I believe a huge Conservative majority, especially if few seats are in Scotland, will loosen further the bolts holding the union together.
Still, Labour can always rely on the Orange Order to rally to their cause!
81 quote can be adapted to the pleasure of the listener’s ear
71
That very thought puts another percentage point on the Conservative tally
61 - You can do whatever you want until you get into government. Then it gets a whole lot trickier.
76 MD - The two episoder set in the Labrary was one of the scariest of modern times
Is it disturbing that the new Doctor, is sooooooooooo young (well younger than me)
69. In the interest of balanced and fair reporting, Cammo’s parting was crooked at PMQs.
75 - Moffatt’s writing is exemplary, I’ll be interested to see how he copes with big action episodes though as he seems to have focused more on smaller scale ones so far. Jekyll was excellent too.
73 - Davies wrote some iffy episodes but the season 4 finale ones weren’t one of them IMO, neither were the others come to think of it (Doomsday most definitely not, nor the Eccleston one, the Master one was good without being excellent though).
78. malcolmg. Yes, and strangely not a single numerate answer. Funny that.
If there are so many possibilities, and the answer is “straightforward”, why can nobody post the numbers?
Of course Lab > SNP in Scotland to get the “20 seats” means Con > Lab in England to get “the balance of power”.
Is that credible? I think not.
OT
Is it constitutionally possible to raise a point of order in the middle of PMQ’s if a hypothetical Prime minister is being economical with the truth?
91 - Those two episodes were also written by Steven Moffat, i can see a trend here.
87. roygbiv, you are likely to be right and Alex knows this well. He is trying to ensure that Labour and any floating voters go for the SNP rather than Tories or Lib Dems.
Get them all onto the electoral roll pronto
The population of the UK is set to increase at its fastest rate in at least a century, it was disclosed today.
In just 24 years it will increase by 10 million - and hit 70 million in 2029, the Office for National Statistics said.
That is less than half the time it took to go from 50 to 60 million between 1948 and 2005.
Every year 425,000 more people will be living here, the equivalent of a city the size of Bristol.
Immigrant numbers have fallen only 10,000 from the last ONS projections two years ago.
They predict 180,000 new arrivals every year over the next quarter century.
When the immigrant baby boom is taken into account, migration will account for two thirds of population growth.
It took 50 years for the population to increase from 40 to 50 million between 1898 and 1948.
Statisticians are now going back through their records to see if the rate of increase is the fastest since records began.
99 Another reason to end the CTFs - no need to encourage yet more births.
99. Clearly a Tory government will stop a large proportion of this immigration. They can’t do much about EU migration, but most of the migrants aren’t EU, they are from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Africa etc.
I expect the Tories will reintroduce primary purpose and other laws, which worked in the past to rein in migrant numbers.
Lefties will squeal, but the policy will be hugely popular, so Cammo won’t give a fig.
SeanT. You have a point. So do they. But not sure how wise they are to push it as far and in the way that they are. I suspect, the make up of the European parliament will not swing votes at the General Election nor sow any doubts about Dave’s Tories.
86 - The left would be diminished if it did not point out that for internal party political reasons the Tories have decided to throw their hat in the European ring with parties and people that celebrate the Waffen SS and have lied about their links to far right movements.
[33] - BBC weather report, “We have just seen a clap of thunder over Bristol.”
I don’t know whether the BBC have any weather forecasters in Bristol, so I guess they meant they had seen the lightning* observation, which implies thunder.
* A lot of lightning is between clouds, rather than cloud to ground, and is easier to see with satellites than from the ground.
86 I may have this wrong, but was it not the case that where a German ally didn’t have its own army, they simply enlisted its nationals into regionally homogeneous Waffen SS units?
Thus you had Hungarians, Romanians, Finns, and Italians all serving in their own armies, allied to Germany. But Danes, Latvians, Lithuanians and the like - who, for reasons of recent history, hadn’t any national army to belong to, but were physically under German control - were formed into SS units.
“Steadily, eastern European governments have sought to craft a new, internationally accepted narrative in which the crimes of Nazism and Stalinism are regarded as equal”
I think if Freedland’s written that, it’s an example of just how much of a twist the left are having to get into with regards this European issue. And, further, the disturbing tendency to see 30 million people killed by a left wing dictator as somehow not really as bad as those kileld by a right wing dictator.
“Freedland used to be a sensible journalist. This kind of crap diminishes him, and this whole Waffen SS campaign is diminishing the left.”
Freedland is a good journalist when he’s not just being a cheerleader for the Labour Party (as an aside, I was in the same class as him). Like you, I’m perplexed by the argument that it is somehow beyond the pale to compare the crimes of Stalin with those of Hitler.
“It took 50 years for the population to increase from 40 to 50 million between 1898 and 1948.”
Well, Herbert, I guess a couple of World Wars helped keep the numbers under control.
103. Sure, but you miss my point - Labour are using up media influence and journalistic capital in a fruitless campaign. Their energies would, I suspect, be better directed elsewhere, in the limited time available to turn the polls around.
They may even be damaging themselves, by looking obsessive and weird on Europe.
Tories already know how that pans out.
102 - Miliband at least is clearly positioning himself for the post-election when a lot of call me Dave’s decisions and policies will start to cause him real trouble. The Tories in the European Parliament thing will only become significant when Cameron is in power and trying to do deals with the Americans, the French and the Germans.
I must say I have a soft spot for polls which show the Tory lead greater than the LibDem share.
Is it just me?
98.”87. roygbiv, you are likely to be right and Alex knows this well. He is trying to ensure that Labour and any floating voters go for the SNP rather than Tories or Lib Dems.”
MalcolmG, can you explain to me why a clear strategy to park the SNP tanks on Labour’s lawn in Scotland is going to persuade ‘floating’ voters in the seats where it matters to go to the SNP rather than the Tories or the Libdems right now? If the Conservative party is as hated as some Scots on here still maintain, why would they vote for a Conservative government in Westminster by voting SNP instead of Labour? Or SNP instead of Conservative if that is what they want to see happen?
On Classic FM 2pm news they had Brown dithering over the Post Office strike first and played Cameron claiming he couldn’t even decide what type of biscuits to eat in the bunker!
85, aye. Bring back Gallifrey, and make the Master a proper villain instead of an ADHD cock who cries if you forgive him.
92. Dr Who is 906. (In the 2007 Christmas special he said that he was 904)
109Seant, what is that old saying on here, ‘if you have to bring in the war and the Nazi’s, then you have lost the argument’
109 - Labour is dead, finished and buried this side of the election. The likes of Miliband & Co are laying down markers for the next Parliament.
114 The Master was one of my favourite characers, as a boy.
114 - Heartily agree
18. “Welly once said that the only thing Irish soldiers needed to make them the best in the world was “white officers””
Source, please? i’ve read a lot on the Duke of Wellington and never seen this. google doesn’t find anything either.
. He also maintained that although born in Ireland he wasn’t Irish, just as “if a dog’s born in a stable that doesn’t make it a horse”
“If a man is born in a stable” were Wellington’s actual words. Still, using the correct words make it somewhat harder to demonstrate the point you are presumably trying to make:-/
Mike - I note that Wales is included with the Midlands in the geographical breakdown for this poll despite having a very different political make up.
Is this just presentational (i.e. it could be shown) or part of the way the survey was conducted?
110. I agree. I like Freedland normally. Even when he is wrong he is sane and sensible and smart, and always a decent writer (and, as an aside, his lucrative transformation into thriller-writer Sam Bourne encouraged Harper to do the same with me, so I am in his debt!)
However he has got this one very very wrong. Why should, say, a Ukrainian who saw his entire family wiped out in the Famine, then Collectivisation, and then the Terror, along with fifty million other victims of the Soviet regime, not feel that Stalinism is absolutely just as bad as Nazism?
Who gave Freedland the power to say this or that interpretation of history is “politically incorrect”??
Tut TUT.
91, that was a nice storyline, although a little similar to the “Are you my mummy?” two-parter.
103. Yes, but how is this a point scored for the left? Do you wnat to make something of it?
Scores, if not an actual majority, of the PLP were Communists in their youth, and Communists have murdered and repressed millions.
John Reid joined the Communist Party the day the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia, so while normal people were condemning it this failed human being was signing up to agree with it.
John Reid and many of his MP colleagues have applauded and consorted with mass murderers.
I doubt Latvia had a lot of options in WW2, but Labour MPs made their choices freely.
116 - There is no argumnet though as it is pretty clear what the Tories have done and why they have done it. The issue is not of any interest to British voters right now because they hate Labour so much. Let’s see how Dave’s decision limits him when he is in power though. I can’t see the problem with pointing that out.
115 - But Matt Smith is like 21
110. Miliband at least is clearly positioning himself for the post-election when a lot of call me Dave’s decisions and policies will start to cause him real trouble.
A strategy played out brilliantly by Michael Foot.
Oh.
106. Exactly - these comments by Freedland are quite revealing, once again showing the tendency among left wingers for the appalling crimes of Stalin et al. to be downplayed on the grounds that they were somehow in an ‘idealistic’ cause.
It might pay off for the SNP but equally, it is a bit of a gamble. Salmond has a history of making bold claims around election times and ending up confounded.
I have wondered recently what the impact would be if Brown was given the Spanish archer by the Labour Party and replaced by Johnson, Milliband etc. Basically, what happens when the PM or government loses a visible Scottish dimension.
My view is if Labour lose power (or Brown is replaced by a non-Scot)then Labour might have to go through a painful process of redefining itself in Scotland. If Labour and by extension, Scottish Labour, lose their powerful cabal at Westminster, what then? No doubt they would have to work very fast to build bridges and not go adrift from the party leadership but I do think that it, as well as under representation of Scots MPs in a Tory government might result in increased support for more power to be returned to Scotland.
117 Reminded me of:
‘Labour’s not pinin’! ‘Labour’s passed on! Labour’s no more! Labour’s ceased to be! Labour’s expired and gone to meet ‘its maker! Labour’s a stiff! Bereft of life, Labour’s rests in peace! If Gordon hadn’t bottled the election Labour’d be pushing up the daisies! Labour’s metabolic processes are now ‘istory! Labour’s off the twig! Labour’s kicked the bucket, Labour’s shuffled off ‘is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARTY!!
89- LONDON (AP), May 7, 2010- Gordon Brown: “But most of all, I want to thank my dear friends in the Liberal Democratic Party, whose voters defected to Labour en masse on the eve of this election to ensure the continuation of my government and allowing me to get on with the job. Take that, Angus Reid!”
In unrelated news, anonymous sources report that prominent Liberal Democratic blogger Mike Smithson was seen last evening burning his party membership card and is said to be planning an indefinite leave from politicalbetting.com for a much-needed period of rest at an undisclosed sanitarium. A man known only as “Gabble” will now be handling Mr. Smithson’s duties at the blog, Downing Street sources say.
109 - It’s the Tories choice of Pro Lisbon anti semites as allies that looks weird.
And will alienate their natural allies.
It’s becoming increasingly clear they didn’t know what they were doing.
When I first put it to the Conservative Party press office that there might be an issue here I was told that it was unlikely the Obama government was troubling itself with such a parochial British issue. To me this demonstrates a fundamental failure of understanding that stretches right up to David Cameron himself. There has always been the suspicion that, for Cameron and his circle, politics is a game. The original ruse to leave the European People’s Party was a ruse to attract the Eurosceptic ultras to his leadership campaign. A mature leader would have abandoned this daft idea when he realised what the consequences would be. If he had taken the trouble to do as much a Google search on his new allies he would have been able to predict that this would become a serious problem for him in America.
William Hague will have some big questions to answer about the new European Conservatives and Reformists group when he meets Hillary Clinton today.
The Tories had trouble being taken seriously in Washington during the Blair era. Now the Americans have to recognise they are likely to form the next government and have begun to put them under genuine scrutiny. Cameron and Hague may yet be forced to reconsider the schoolboy jape that has turned into this distasteful alliance.
120 Source for the “white officers” remark is Andrew Roberts, Wellington and Napoleon.
Thanks for correction re horse / dog / stable. I’m relieved to hear that the Duke misquoted Bernard Manning
I would be more impressed with the MSM fascination for the Tories and their “nasty” friends in Europe, if the same amount of attention was paid to the various kiddie fiddlers and nutters that Labour associate with.
The Tories do have some questionable allies in Europe however, so do Labour. For some reason the press are only able to comment on the Tory allies.
Actually, I’m quite stunned at that commment from Freedland. I always thought he was quite sensible about things.
124 - But Latvians now know what was done by the SS during WW2, yet the party the Tories have chosen to sit with in the European Parliament still celebrates their achievements. That is the point, I believe. As far as I know John Reid and other ex-commies on the Labour benches do not seek to defend or celebrate the Soviet Union these days.
123 Md - I’d forgotten that one. Yes it was a belter especially when Victor Meldrew morphed into the gas mask lol
117. No they’re not. They want this Waffle $$ attack to work NOW. But it isn’t.
And it’s not some fiendish masterplan to put down markers; or at least, if it is, its not very fiendish and certainly not very masterly.
What happens in nine months if they start blithering on AGAIN about the Latvians, everyone will just say Oh please shut up we know that yawn.
What Labour should have done is kept this issue in the ammunition locker to be used maybe two weeks before the election date. Then, and only then, they should have come out charging with their accusations. At that late stage, it might have panicked Tories and it might have done some real damage.
But they did the money shot too early, and no one will care or notice if they get the fluffer in and try again sometime.
Memo to lefties: I can be hired as a political adviser for the price of a Business Class air ticket to Bangkok.
Decent line of questioning by Nick Clegg on the banks today at PMQ. The Tories seem to want to avoid discussing this issue - I wonder why?
127 - ???
122 - The point about the H- cau$t and fighting Stalinism is that the Tories have sought to excuse those willing participants in the mass murder of Jews as if killing Jews was part of the fight against Stalin.
Historically that is pretty obnoxious.
But as I’ve said, they were never properly briefed.
91 “Are you my mummy?” (The Empty Child”) was also written by Stephen Moffat - and introduced Capt. Jack Harkness.
So basicaly, all the quality new Dr. Who = Stephen Moffat
He also wrote Coupling, featuring the divine Gina Bellman (Dennis Potter’s “Blackeyes”, for those who can’t forget….)
One for the conspiracy theorists.
Israel and the US are due to begin a two-week military defence exercise, thought to be the largest of its kind in Israel’s history.
The exercise will focus on providing a joint defence against a simulated co-ordinated missile attack on Israel.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8317919.stm
“the Tories have sought to excuse those willing participants in the mass murder of Jews as if killing Jews was part of the fight against Stalin”
Spectacular attempt at spin there, and quite a disgraceful one.
131
138 - You think the new Tory group will last until the election?
I think theres a chance now that it may not.
Which leads us onto the odds on Hague as Foreign Secretary.
132 Did the US have any problem maintaining diplomatic relations with Poland and the Czech Republic when the Conservatives’ allies were in government?
142 - IIRC Captain Jack was a character created by RTD and incorporated into Steven Moffat’s story.
138 “Memo to lefties: I can be hired as a political adviser for the price of a Business Class air ticket to Bangkok.”
They may be a little squeamish though about your, er, “room service” tab…
Decent line of questioning by Nick Clegg on the banks today at PMQ. The Tories seem to want to avoid discussing this issue - I wonder why?
by RobC October 21st, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Because it gave the opportunity which Brown grabbed with both hands to launch into a long list of lies about how he saved the world, it’s not that difficult really if you have a bit of a think about it.
143 Acknowledging they can’t now stop Iranian nukes, perhaps?
138 - People will start to care once Dave’s decision starts to cause trouble for a UK government in its relationship with the Americans. They may also notice that the Germans and the French are less inclined to help him out because of the decision he took. Miliband will rightly point out that this is exactly what he said would happen.
“The point about the H- cau$t and fighting Stalinism is that the Tories have sought to excuse those willing participants in the mass murder of Jews as if killing Jews was part of the fight against Stalin.”
And, your source for that is?
146. Is it more or less likely than Coulson being sacked?
136. Well, the left says it “celebrates their achievements”, but then the left would.
Equally, the Freedland article linked above shows that the left does indeed consider it beyond the pale to equate Communist atrocities with Nazi atrocities. Has any Labour ex-Communist MP ever gone on record to regret having belonged to the CP because s/he now sees that they are evil apologists for murder?
144 - They’ve falsely claimed that the SS marchers, the mass murderers amongst them, are mainstream Latvians despite the fact that the Latvian Govt withdrew recognition from them.
141. Half your party were communists AFTER the Terror. These aren’t obscure European allies, this is people in YOUR PARTY.
This truth hasn’t quite percolated down into public consciousness. One day it might.
We now have an opening question for tomorrow’s show:
“Do you support the decision by the SAS to honour Corporal Labalaba with a statue?”
I’d like to say that I am delighted that Corporal Labalaba has had this recognition. His heroics at the Battle of Mirbat were an inspiration to me as a lad reading the groundbreaking autobiography of Soldier I and the many books on the SAS that followed.
147 - I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the US is going to break off diplomatic relations with us.
I think there is something very rotten in the soul of the Labour party that it is willing to try so hard with the Shoah like this. Oppostion will hopefully get rid of this disgusting strain.
Latvian SS still popular amongst the ‘flogging a dead horse brigade’ I see…and the excuses for turning a blind eye to the history of other groupings within the EU are becoming a joke.
Stinks of hypocrisy and makes for very dull reading…. Mrs Cameron’s ‘dress’ was more relevant ffs.
136. The historian Eric Hobsbawm, darling of the British left, was happy to excuse the mass murder of millions in the name of communism only a few years ago.
I suspect many former communists within Labour privately agree.
133. Much thanks. I’ve got Roberts’ book, it’s obviously about time i read it!
“People will start to care once Dave’s decision starts to cause trouble ”
That’s actually a big “if” not a “once”.
#129 roygbiv
I think it will become increasingly clear to Scots that the only way to avoid long periods of Government by Tories, whom the vast majority of Scots continue to oppose, is to seek independence.
I also believe that the removal of Gordon Brown as PM, and the current devolutionary situation, will mean that the likelihood of anyone with a Scottish seat ever being PM again will become not much more reasonable to expect than that an NI based politician will become PM.
Both of these factors will combine to sharply increase SNP support, paticularly as, no matter what the number of SNP seats after the GE, many more will be marginals.
As has been noted, it was not the fact that the SNP won 11 seats in 1974 that truly worried unionists-it was the large number of second places.
“- They’ve falsely claimed that the SS marchers, the mass murderers amongst them, are mainstream Latvians despite the fact that the Latvian Govt withdrew recognition from them.
by tim October 21st, 2009 at 2:23 pm”
Do you not realise how obsessive, oddball and cranky that very sentence sounds? Read it again. With neutral eyes. Exactly. You sound like the worst of sort of bearded conspiracy theorist.
I am therefore happy to continue this debate, as it prevents you from noticing a line of attack on Cameron that might actually work.
Ignoring the Latvian nonsense, what baffles me about EU parliamentary groupings is why anyone thinks it matters much. EU policy is decided by a mixture of EU civil servants and governments, especially the French and German governments. You get your way by standing firm, not by making speeches no-one listens to in the EU parliament.
Quiz question: Can anyone remember anything that has ever been said in the EU parliament, other than Dan Hannan’s anti-Brown tirade? [No Googling...]
159 But, I don’t think that there’s any suggestion that the US thought there was anything untoward about either government. In fact, Poland was on very good terms with the Bush administration.
O/T This post strike is great, I’m trying to run my business and it now seems my postie has decided he just couldn’t wait and has gone on strike a day early!
If anyone just saw Phil Woolas on Sky…WOW.
The Tories do not need an election campaign. They can just show this interview over and over and obliterate the Labour party.
WOW WOW WOW.
Thank god Anna Botting was trying to ask the questions rather than Commie Kay.
157 Labour members in general have had an extrordinarily easy ride over their former Communist-flavoured beliefs - and the myriad horrors that caused in the Twentieth Century.
As have the union bosses who funded them - after they were, in turn, being paid by Moscow….
re 39 if you’ve got especially keen eye sight and a dark sky you can see almost 13 quintillion miles (the Andomeda galaxy).
167. Didn’t Berlusconi liken one German MEP to a guard at a death camp or something? Wasn’t that in the EP?
Clearly I haven’t Googled this to find out!
166. Isn’t the correct term ‘whackjob’?
170, detail?
Labour List getting really irate about the Tories selling T-shirts: http://www.labourlist.org/conservative-t-shirts-vincenzo-rampulla
This seemingly remarkably novel innovation is causing much “hate” to happen. What’s more the irony of the Tories selling a baby-grow when everyone knows they eat babies!
If they are this angry over T-shirt sales, what will they be like if/when they lose the election?!
“If anyone just saw Phil Woolas on Sky…WOW.”
What’d he do?
165.Well you have a bit of a problem with your first point, for the SNP to make the much hyped gains they have claimed are possible, they need the Labour vote to collapse in Scotland. And for that to happen, they have to be pretty relaxed about an incoming Conservative government right now. Its all getting a bit desperate isn’t it?
SNP need 20+ seats, Labour meltdown and a Conservative government in Westminster with no mandate in Scotland.
“Both of these factors will combine to sharply increase SNP support, paticularly as, no matter what the number of SNP seats after the GE, many more will be marginals.
As has been noted, it was not the fact that the SNP won 11 seats in 1974 that truly worried unionists-it was the large number of second places.”
Ahhh, now we are talking about the possibility of new marginals with lots of SNP second places suddenly becoming more meaningful.
When will the hyperbole and ramping grind to a halt, when its SNP win everything in Scotland at the next GE?
This is reminding me of the memories of the claims made before the 78′ World Cup.
156 The Latvian Party has formed part of that country’s government from 1995 to 2004, and from 2006 onwards, and provided the country’s Prime Minister between 1996 and 1998. So, it seems to be mainstream in Latvia.
160 - In other words, please do not raise issues that may cause Tories some discomfort
150 Don .So you think a petty piece of party politicking at PMQ is the real reason why Cameron avoids this issue?
169. O/T again - I could go and check the definitive reason for our franking bags and post not arriving today by going down to our post office but of course it’s a Wednesday and they close at lunchtime and take the afternoon off.
It is only 2009 afterall.
Moan over.
Jon Craig compares today’s PMQs with the classic Major vs Blair with the “weak, weak, weak” soundbite.
http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:2d58a08d-3f85-4067-bc6c-fc8f6902193f
167 - That of course is true, but the ripples from Cameron and Hagues misjudgement have spread further than that now.
What is behind it do you think.
Did Hague not realise that these people were pro CAP and Pro Lisbon, or did he not realise they were racists and homophobes.
Because surely he didn’t realise.
178. “This is reminding me of the memories of the claims made before the 78′ World Cup.”
Those were more realistic.
Refused to answer any questions on migration. Was asked if the government are in denial about the level of population growth forecast, his response was to deny that population was going to grow despite the ONS report.
Asked Anna Botting if she was recommending euthenasia to limit population growth.
Said he didn’t have a clue how many illegal immigrants were in the country, and said he didn’t have a clue how population would grow going forward.
Just rude, arrogant, spinning, lying Labour at its very best.
Breathtaking ignorance.
162 - Conservatie MP Alan Clark was a firm admirer of Adolf Hitler. I suspect that in private many other Tories agree.
That’s kind of offensive, isn’t it?
112. Christina, I was thinking more that some of them may choose to go Lib Dem or just not vote as a lot will still not vote Tory in any circumstance , these are the ones that the SNP need.
170.Albion, what happened?
109. “They may even be damaging themselves, by looking obsessive and weird on Europe.”
What amuses me most is that they’re aren’t even obsessing about something substantial on Europe like, um, the Lisbon treaty - which affects how we are all governed.
They’re obsessing about the alleged past of certain individual foreign MEPs which sit in the same group in the European Parliament as the MEPs British Oppositions and hoping that this will bother the general public enough to make them come back to Labour.
WHAT?
146 - “Which leads us onto the odds on Hague as Foreign Secretary”
There’s £10 available to lay at 1.61, why not go and lay it if you think this is so important?
152 SO sorry but that’s crap. The Americans are only interested in the Americans. There is no special relationship out with the American State Department. As for the French and Germans, they will work with a Tory government if it suits them and oppose it if it does not, just as they have with Labour for whom Merkel has nothing but contempt.
At least David Cameron ended the hypocracy of the British Tories sitting in a Centre-Right grouping whose aim is a Federal European super state.
167: “Quiz question: Can anyone remember anything that has ever been said in the EU parliament, other than Dan Hannan’s anti-Brown tirade? [No Googling...]”
Dan Hannan getting kicked out for comparing procedings to those in the Reichstag, circa 1933.
Some wobbly chinned chap shouting at him as he tried to finish his speech.
187 Thats preposterous SA, and a very nasty smear.
“In other words, please do not raise issues that may cause Tories some discomfort”
No. It’s don’t twist things so that you can force them in a way to try and take advantage of the Shoah to score political points.
“They’re obsessing about the alleged past of certain individual foreign MEPs which sit in the same group in the European Parliament as the MEPs British Oppositions and hoping that this will bother the general public enough to make them come back to Labour.”
No, they’re hoping that it will bother the general public enough that they won’t vote Tory or bore them to death trying.
@71
Have you put your money where your mouth is?
re: Cameron’s all-women shortlists
The lead story here is that Cameron wishes to parachute women into safe seats. The additional nugget of info that we seem to have forgotten is:
These are women that Cameron and co in CCO want to put into safe seats!
Using “positive discrimination” as a cover cuts off half of your candidates, but allows you to use other selection criteria to determine them. Could we see a whole new group of female Cameroons in the next parliament?
186, thanks for that post.
Sounds as helpful as Alan Johnson being relaxed about a population of 70m in 10 years.
ChristinaD et al:
Anna Botting summarised the interivew as:
“From listening to you, i understand that you have no idea of how many illegal immigrants there are, what population growth you expect, and how on earth you will plan for housing, education, health etc going forward”
Phil Woolas replied “So what is your proposal, that we should have euthenasia”
Clueless.
183. I did post earlier how it was most unusual to see the green-seated gaps on the Lab side towards the fag-end of PMQs.
Don’t remember seeing that before.
176 Alistair
That article is an exquisite précis of the mental anguish that is the daily burden of a Labour activist today.
192 - Just out of interest, where is your evidence that Merkel has nothing but contempt for Labour? If that is the case, how is it possible that Tony Blair is favourite to the be the first President of Europe?
The Americans will, of course, do what is best for the Americans. And they may well decide that what is best for them is not to get too close to someone whose judgement they do not trust.
Splendid news.
So much for The Strange Death of Tory England.
194 - Precisely. Now read what Runnymede wrote at 162.
129. roygbiv. Agree once again and imagine that once Brown loses power , Labour in Scotland will be like ferrets in a sack. Brown’s puppets will be fighting for their lives.
They have to get a Scottish dimension if they are going to have a chance going forward against the SNP , who for good or bad are seen as the only party looking out for Scotland’s interests.
187. “162 - Conservatie MP Alan Clark was a firm admirer of Adolf Hitler. I suspect that in private many other Tories agree.”
Do you have *ANY* evidence for that other than desperately wanting to believe it’s true?
@187
It’s well-known that Alan Clark created such stories to wind up people that he considered to be fools.
Are you feeling wound up, Mr Southern Observer?
re 84 the disgusting thing about yesterday’s Speaker’s Conference was Brown saying that he would look into the possibility of all ethnic shortlists in certain constituencies. Does that mean that if you’re white in my constituency (which is still almost 30% white) that you would never get selected as a PPC?
187 - SO - I’m pretty sure that’s not true. Either part of it.
195 - There is nothing wrong about pointing out David Cameron’s political misjudgement in aligning the Tories in Europe with parties and people that celebrate the SS and dissemble about their links with the far right.
184 tim - Frankly I can’t believe any grown-up takes this nonsense seriously, but if ripples have spread, it is entirely the result of irresponsible Labour mischief-making. I appreciate they want at all costs to avoid drawing further attention to Labour’s incompetence and worse, but this is not even a sensible way to do it. There are many more effective ways of attacking the Conservatives, for example on what exactly policy post-Lisbon would be. Cameron making waves on Lisbon is far more likely to cause ructions with our European friends than Miliband’s silly smears, so why are Labour making themselves look foolish with the Latvian stuff?
Re Nazis
Should Labour not be spending less timing worrying about Latvian Nazis and more time worrying about the ones taking votes from them in their consituencies ?
Unless I’ve missed something WWC voters will be more concerned about what is going on in their area today, than events 60 years ago in a country most people cannot place.
In the Tory front bench repayment tally vs Gordon’s own on Legg… the numbers have moved further against GB I see as Clarke was the largest amount before I think? From Paul Waugh…
Legg apologises to Ken Clarke
Oh dear. Sir Thomas Legg has just written to Ken Clarke to offer an “unreserved apology” for getting his sums wrong and for demanding more than £4,000 “payback” for expenses claims.
The payback demand has been revised down to £1,345. Clarke will see this as a vindication of his clear refusal to accept the Legg letter’s calculations.
The reason for the error is duplicated forms, I’m told. Yet more proof of the chaos of the Fees Office, maybe?
Sources close to the Shadow Business Sec stress, however, that he is not against the Legg review in principle.
But this blunder will be manna from heaven for those MPs who believe the whole process has been shabbily handled and ineptly executed.
It can only undermine the credibility of the Legg team, that’s for sure.
Maybe we need an independent auditor of the independent auditor?
UPDATE: Here’s the key quote from the letter:
“This should not have happened and I want to lose no time in offering you an unreserved apology,” Sir Thomas wrote.
I thought Cameron came off second best today, but only just with Brown almost losing it altogether as usual on the 6th question. He’s just such a pressure cooker.
Dave clearly wants Brown to remain in place and seems prepared to just coast towards the GE… could be a dangerous strategy.
I preferred PMQs when he was really socking it to Brown.
187- You ought to be a bit careful in suggesting who loves Adolf. Most of those in the western world today who are most open about their love of Hitler’s policies, particularly his “Jewish question” policies, are part of the electoral coalitions of left-wing parties.
187 - Ahhh, he was just joking. I see.
In 1981, his diary records: ‘I told Frank Johnson that I was a Nazi; I really believed it to be the ideal system, and that it was a disaster for the Anglo-Saxon races and for the world that it was extinguished.’
Johnson, who was then on the staff of The Times, gulps and tells Clark he can’t really mean it. Clark really did mean it. But even when he complains in his diary that Johnson ‘takes refuge in the convention that Alan-doesn’t-really-mean-it’, his readers continue to believe that this is all an uproarious joke.
Yet, and this is to his credit as a diarist, he does not attempt to mislead his readers about his true opinions: at one point he records his thoughts of defecting to the National Front, and when two NF emissaries come to visit him he writes: ‘How good they were and how brave [those] who keep alive the tribal essence.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1215174/Wonderful-Alan-Clark-sleazy-vindictive-greedy-cruel-wife.html
209 - The Tory group is the first forign policy decision that Cameron and Hague have had to make, and its a car crash.
I’ll ask you again, do you think they knew that the leader and main ally in the group were Pro Lisbon and Pro Cap?
178. Christina, Time will tell, but things may well fall into place. One thing we can be sure of at this point is that the SNP are not going backwards and there could very well be massive changes coming with the likelihood that Labour will be smashed, the Tories will win easily except in Scotland where they will have less than a handful. Given that Labour will almost certainly then change dramatically and have no Scottish influence in London , who knows what the Scottish regional party will do. At the moment it looks reasonably good for the SNP, hopefully they can keep up the good work and we will see the real results in 2011.
196. I think they’d prefer for them to vote Labour Rob.
On an aside, for the gazillionth time, I cannot BELIEVE yet another thread has ended up talking about Latvia and the SS.
AGAIN.
Christ - at this rate I might even go to Latvia with my camera and take pictures of myself in a Waffen $$ uniform, complete with an “I love Dave” badge, and wave a Union Jack outside their main parliament building. I’ll post the pictures to flickR.
Just to shut tim up.
215 That’s it Tim. I’m voting Labour, especially as their foriegn policy has been so universally acclaimed.
#178 ChristinaD
“And for that to happen, they have to be pretty relaxed about an incoming Conservative government right now. Its all getting a bit desperate isn’t it?”
Do you think, as a number of Scots believe, that by voting Labour en masse Scots can prevent a Tory government in the teeth of a large or perhaps massive Tory victory in England?
Fortunately a sizeable number of Scots have now recognised that did not work in 1979,1983,1987, and 1992.
Virtually all the time, for the government of the UK to be Labour, England must vote for it. The problem is further compounded by there being only 59 Scots MPs now as against 72/73 in the 70S, 80s and 90s.
Also, do you really think if, say, the SNP win only 10 seats but are second in 30 that, apart from a brief period of understandable relief, Labour and other unionists will feel that the SNP are not a serious threat to them?
203. Maybe a bit brash, but many Labour MPs were communists in their youth.
How many Tories were N@zis?
It is obvious from this survey that the English have a lot more common sense about political parties than the rest of the UK !
213 - Is that right? Which left wing parties in the western world advocate Hitler-style solutions to what you term the “Jewish question”?
215 tim - It’s not a car crash. For some reason Labour have decided to obsess about it, but irrational Labour obsessions are hardly Cameron’s fault. Indeed, he is probably delighted that they are wasting their fire-power on this.
As to your question - of course they knew that there is a range of opinions in the new group, as there are in the other groups. So what?
217. I cannot BELIEVE yet another thread has ended up talking about
Latvia and the SS. IHT……and it will have exactly the same effect on the body politic. Just be thankful it’s not AWS.
220 - I have no idea.
re Alan Clark, I’m pretty sure he played it up to shock people, but he does mention in the diaries that he kept a portrait of Hitler in his safe at Saltwood.
215/218. tim - yes. I’ll vote Labour too.
You’ve CONVINCED me.
Isn’t it also that the Latvian government themselves are sat back in Vilnius alternating between genuine confusion at what Milliband is doing/saying and sending him messages to, well, kindly stop it please.
Stephen Fry managed to annoy the whole of Poland the other week.
221. Wayne, and from your post it is obvious that everyone in the UK has more common sense than you.
Sorry. Latvia’s capital is RIGA. I’m a dumbass.
225. So as far as you know the answer is none. Whereas we now know that at least three Labour MPs were working for Soviet intelligence agencies. i.e. They are traitors and should have been hanged.
Doesn’t David Milliband believe this is an election winner?
222- Radical Islamists routinely vote for left-wing parties such as Labour (as a now famous poll recently said, Labour is seen as the party of single mothers and immigrants), and they are the most likely to unreservedly betray hostile sentiments toward Jews.
Here’s one example from the U.S., where an American Muslim protestor yelled “You [Jews] need a big oven, that’s what you need!”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/american-muslim-protester-tells-jews-to-go-back-to-the-oven.html
224 – Remember these discussions, FPTP versus PR, AV, AV+, STV etc…gosh those were the days..such fun
Downing Street Aide: “Don’t Woory Prime Minister,the people of Scotland still love you” (while muttering to herself “What a loser”)
Brown: “Get me another case of KitKats ive just broken another”
All this palaver over the SS reminds me of the Guardians attempt to portray Boris as a nasty racist during last years mayoral campaign.
“196. I think they’d prefer for them to vote Labour Rob.”
Isn’t the point of negative tactics to depress the oppositions vote to their core and to energise yours? I.e. play for a low-scoring, narrow win?
So yes, they would. But by taking this approach, there’s the implicit acceptance that they can’t win those votes and the only tactic left is for everyone to lose them.
re 199 did she get the chance to ask him about “mosques” offering illegal passports?
203 I see…. Perhaps I could direct you to Iain Dales latest posting about Miliband.(banana version)
http://www.iaindale.blogspot.com/
222- And, of course, you have Mr. Galloway and his merry tribe of followers…
230. According to tim it’s actually the Wolf’s Lair in East Prussia.
239 - I do love Respect, and baiting their supporters.
Albert Camus (leftie) sums up the difference between Facism and Communism (or Hitlerism and Stalinism) thus:
Facism = State Terrorism and Irrational Terror
Communism = State Terrorism and Rational Terror
Friedland must be a fan of the rational variants of state terror.
What a redundant discourse this is.
How many seats in England? IIRC it is about 530. Allowing for smaller Welsh seats, this is about 83% of the electorate
So if the tories are at 47% in England, even at only 15% everywhere else, they are at 42% nationwide including NI, 43% if it’s 20% elsewhere.
Are headline poll numbers normally including NI or not?
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/woolas_tories_are_lying_about_immigration.html
Phil Woolas the man that fears knowone -except Joanna Lumley, What a loser !
PfP - I expect that PMQ’s will be a riot again from January onwards, when realistically there is no longer time left for Labour to replace Gordon.
Plus, Cameron is wary of the charge of looking like a bully. Firm determined questioning seems to be paying off in the polls for now. What is the point of going in for the kill - other than it makes for grea YouTube moments?
And to think that earlier in the thread I felt guilty for my part in derailing it into Dr Who discussion.
217 Maybe Cameron, Hague, Pickles, and Osborne could emulate the Rolling Stones and turn up on stage wearing $$ Uniforms to give tim a heart attack.
232 - Do you have any evidence at all that shows radical islamicists vote for Labour. As far as I can tell, the evidence, in fact, suggests that they do not; indeed, it suggests that they do not vote at all. Why would a radical islamicist vote for the party that took the UK into the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?
247 - What a wheeze that would be, eh?
245. “PfP - I expect that PMQ’s will be a riot again from January onwards, when realistically there is no longer time left for Labour to replace Gordon.”
Yes ease off until it’s too late to dump Gordon and after that Dave can wind up Gordon as much as Dave likes.
re 205 Casino you could start here from that well know leftie, Dominic Lawson
248, the Muslims on a forum I used to frequent tended very strongly towards Labour. They also fell for the nonsense about Boris being a racist.
229.
Get yourself a new hanky Malcolm and stop crying about your parties rapid demise…. loser and follower of losers that you are !
150 Don .So you think a petty piece of party politicking at PMQ is the real reason why Cameron avoids this issue?
Yes, why do you think he avoided it?
The clue is in the name politician, his job is to extract maximum benefit from each and every occasion he appears on tv, giving Brown the opportunity to stand and spout a lot of lies without the possibility of a comeback is a schoolboy error best left to the likes of Clegg.
249. Ed Balls has already shown them the way. Maybe he could join in as well.
Tim
What do you think of Labour’s “unsavoury” allies in Europe?
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/10/labours-unsavoury-allies-part-two.html
248- Are you suggesting that radical Islamists vote Tory? Quite amusing. And I didn’t say that they vote Labour, per se. I said that they vote for the left. You have yet to refute that assertion, let alone with any facts.
By the way, do you deny that Galloway is on the left?
229.
Oh and have a KitKat with your tea….
I fear Woolas and the 70 million population issue will play straight into Griffin’s hands on QT…. Labour has no answers, can see no problems, accepts no responsibility. On this they have become utterly at odds with their core white vote.
256- And how could you claim that radical Islamists “don’t vote at all”? Zero percent turnout in this group? That can’t be a literal statement, so I won’t take it as such.
238 - Did Ian Dale ask Kaminski about denying he ever donned neo-fascist symbols then remembering that he had but saying he didn’t really mean it?
251 - Are you saying all muslims are, in the words of Stars and Stripes, “radical islamicists”?
260- Well, you’re saying that “all radical Islamists don’t vote,” so you’re hardly immune to absurd generalizations yourself.
255 - I’ve answered that before, but once more for you.
All parties contain loons at the fringes, that does not discredit the whole party.
The presence of a Nazi sympathiser, Alan Clarke did not discredit the whole of the Conservative Party.
But the Tories went out and sought out extremeist groups to form an alliance with and made one of them their Leader in Europe.
There’s a difference.
260, no, that’s why I didn’t type those words in my post. Are you saying furry octopuses are investment bankers?
As I *did* write, some of them had pretty unorthodox views.
258. Why is it a race or core white vote issue? Where do we fit 10 more Birminghams? You don’t have to be a bigot to worry about where we are all going to live.
256 - No I am saying that radical islamicists do not tend do vote and in fact instruct their followers not to vote.
As repellent as Galloway is, I am not sure that I have ever seen or heard him advocate Hitler-style solutions to the “Jewish question”.
191 - FAO Tim
You’ve not yet thanked me for pointing out that you can lay William Hague as the next Foreign Secretary at 1.61. Odds-on! Amazing value. Surely this is free money, given his catastrophic misjudgement over the Latvians?
259 - Depends on your definition, AL Muhajiroun and such groups preach that voting is sinful.
Southam Observer,
It’s interesting that the meme has morphed from the Latvian party celebrating the sacrifices of those who were conscripted into the Latvian $$ divisions (which were primarily conscripts given a rather unpleasant choice: “volunteering” for $$ W@ffen legions, serving in the German army (Heer) as “auxiliaries” (laborers behind the front lines, commanded by German officers and often treated as subhumans), or being sent to a slave labor camp in Germany. Those who tried to avoid one of those options were arrested and sent to concentration camps) and died fighting Stalin’s troops to a rather inaccurate “people that celebrate the $$”, which appears designed to suggest that they celebrate Hitler’s H0l0caust.
Is this an intentional warping of the facts, or one that’s happened innocently? I mean the question sincerely; it’s possible that you might not have any knowledge other than the rather unpleasant shading of the facts being promulgated by Labour (including the Foreign Secretary, I understand, which is rather shameful and embarassing).
Bear in mind, as well, that the US Displaced Persons commission stated shortly after the war: “The Baltic W@ffen $$ Units (Baltic Legions) are to be considered as separate and distinct in purpose, ideology, activities, and qualifications for membership from the German $$, and therefore the Commission holds them not to be a movement hostile to the Government of the United States.”
Also bear in mind that Latvian Legion soldiers were at Nuremberg. As guards on the Allied side. And were used by the Allies in the Berlin Airlift.
(editted to try to avoid the moderation filter)
161
It’s the only horse they’ve got
Southam Observer,
I’ve got a detailed answer to you in moderation. It should appear somewhere around comment 263, at 3:15 pm (if Mike or one of the team could release it and delete the near-duplicate at 3:17pm, I’d be very grateful).
I’d be very interested in your response.
266 - I think it is good value, particularly given the speculation involving Miliband moving.
205 - On Clark, it’s pretty well documented he had a bit of a curious Hitler fetish. His brother has said (and I think I’m quoting directly) that Clark “never hid his admiration of Hitler”. His diaries are littered with approving references comparing Hitler’s own position at various times either to his own or Thatcher’s. On the domestic scene, he says in his diaries that the National Front were unlikely to stand against him as he was the nearest they were likely to get to an MP. More tangentially, but perhaps quite revealingly, several of his dogs were named after people close to Hitler.
In relation to 206, I think the testimony of friends and relatives and references in (semi) private diaries suggests the “he was a wind up merchant” line is a bit thin.
Alan Clark was an entertaining fellow in many ways, and I’d have loved a drink or three with him before he popped off. But it is rather remarkable that he was a pretty senior figure in fairly recent history.
262 - How many radical islamicists are there in the UK?
The turnout at the last election was something like 60%. We know that those from ethnic minorities are less likely to vote; we know that the young are less likely to vote than those over the age of 35; we know that most radical islamicists are under 35. I think it is pretty reasonable to extrapolate that mos radical islamicists do not vote, especially as their leaders state that they should not. However, if you have evidence to the contrary, I would be very happy to have a look at it.
171. One could argue that the Nazi-Soviet Pact was the one thing that emboldened Hitler to invade Poland.
“They started it!”
252. Wayne , What are you on , my party is riding high at present, no hanky required just yet.
270 – Tim, if Brown was booted out as PM- Party leader, which in your opinion would be best to replace him, Milband Jnr or Snr..?
275 - Mandelson has always wanted to be Foreign Secretary
271. Is it any more remarkable that a communist agent was a Labour minister not so very long ago?
271 In “Barbarossa” he makes no secret of his admiration for Hitler, as statesman and military commander, and describes him as one of the “heroes” of the book; yet, he is extremely scathing about Nazi atrocities in Russia, and contemptuous towards various Nazi leaders.
275 - After the election I’d make Ed favourite.
276 - I know, thats why I was asking if there were any Foreign secretary markets this morning.
265- So you believe that the Tory party harbors Hitler sympathizers while Labour and Respect don’t, even though the populations that contain openly anti-semitic Islamic radicals vote overwhelmingly for left-wing parties. Your position is prima facie ridiculous, so the burden of proof is on you.
273
The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact allowed the Soviets to expand their empire in the East, with the Baltic States and part of Finland.
253. Clegg actually asked if the Gov’t would break up the biggest banks and if the Governor of Bank of England was wrong. Brown said the future of British banking was being reviewed by the government and by the European Commission, something an alleged sceptic like DC might like to have commented on
Clegg then said something that might resonate with voters far more than dull tit for tatting over the postal strike ie he pointed out the current situation is worse than before with less competition in the sector, higher bonuses for bankers and many people losing jobs. He asked whether, if banks have a ‘blank cheque’ from taxpayers, there should be an additional claim on their profits.
I bet even the likes of Dennis Skinner were quietly nodding at that.
281. There is a picture in the ITN Factbook, which I got as a birthday present in 1990, and I believe was a one-off publication, with a picture of a demonstration in one of the Baltic States showing a combined effigy of Hitler and Stalin as a two-headed monster.
270 - I see it’s now been matched. Good luck, Tim.
281 - No, that is not what I think and if you had followed the thread from the beginning you would realise that.
My position is that it is repellent to state that Tories harbour nazi sympathies just because one prominent Tory did, just as it is repellent to state that a section of Labour party supporters find Stalin’s atrocities justifiable just because one left-wing historian believes that they are.
282, lovely. What soundbite got played on the news? The programme the majority of people will actually see any of PMQ’s on.
The Trafalgar flag fetched £384,000. Wow!
158 - Fiji Bob
237 tim-lite
Chump
Woolas did not know how many illegal immigrants there are. Perhaps by your twisted logic that means that illegal immigration does not exist.
281 - Actually, the BNP’s leadership has been very open in its admiration of Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany. It also does a pretty neat line in holocaust denial. The BNP, of course, gets a lot more votes than Respect.
282
Great.
Cleggy wants a windfall tax on bank profits, for use by the government no doubt.
Taxpayer’s money -> government machine -> Banks -> government machine -> government coffers
Why not grind the cash up and just burn it in a power station somewhere
287 - Wow ind££d,
281- For the period that the Nazi-Soviet pact was in effect, the substantial communist factions all across Europe turned to an unambiguous Nazi-friendly stance. Naturally they would, since they took their marching orders from Moscow.
274.
Thought you were a tearful socialist..
289 - Nobody in any free country knows how many illegal immigrants there are.
Inside or outside of fictional mosques.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5458128/nothing-doing.thtml
Spectator pretty scathing about Cameron “A poor showing by Dave today. All he managed was a spot of outmoded Labour-bashing and a biscuit joke that didn’t exactly take the biscuit.”
And pretty upbeat on Clegg “Clegg did better. He extracted more juice from two questions than Dave got from six.”
295 - You missed this bit…?
“It was brilliantly cunning, apparently, and established a link in people’s minds between Brown and the posties’ decision to down tools and brew up. Right. But Brown is in charge of the country so any countrywide strike will automatically be linked to him”
Move along.
Hague’s a genius Move along now
\http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/486908/memo_to_hillary_clinton_friends_don_t_let_friends_9829_fasci
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/486908/memo_to_hillary_clinton_friends_don_t_let_friends_9829_fasci
[295] - Spectator pretty scathing about Cameron..
Awww. I was just getting used to the idea that the Spectator was one cog in a monolithic right-wing media intent on brain-washing the masses into voting Tory, and they have to go and spoil it by being more critical of Cameron than his cheerleaders on here.
The conservative views of radical Islamists make them anathema to most on the liberal left, of course that doesn’t stop some very perverse alliances, esecially with the authoritarian left or right. As with most fringe religious groups, however, they tend to think of politics as being inherently a bad thing.
295, could be wrong, but I think Lloyds Evans is the chap who makes a habit of getting PMQs wrong.
“And pretty upbeat on Clegg “Clegg did better. He extracted more juice from two questions than Dave got from six.””
Unfortunately, the following sentence is that Brown answered reasonably, kicking the issue into the long grass. Quite how that means Clegg “extracted more questions”.
Rave reviews for Cameron are rare from Lloyd Evans.
281 - there’s also the small matter of the Eastern half of Polans.
I’ve got the DVD of Katyn waiting for a viewing this evening.
Juice, rather than questions.
295 - Different view at Telegraph Towers
PMQs: Gordon Brown loses his temper over Royal Mail
That didn’t best please the PM. Pointing across at Cameron, he leapt up and roared: “This party has been wrong on every issue affecting the British economy. They were wrong on the nationalisation of Northern Rock. They were wrong on the rescue of the banking system. They were wrong on tackling unemployment…”
The list went on for some time. But it was undermined by Gordon Brown’s own front bench. Harriet Harman, Jack Straw and Douglas Alexander all looked like they were cringing. Like they had seen this before – “Oh no,” their troubled expressions seemed to say, “Gordon’s lost it again.”
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willheaven/100014351/pmqs-gordon-brown-loses-his-temper-over-royal-mail/
292. Which included, in the UK, trade union members and others attempting to sabotage the war effort against Hitler.
305.
“They were wrong on the nationalisation of Northern Rock”
Probably the most easily deniable Brownie of all - NRK should have been Lehman’d.
O/t update - postie has turned up, I apologise for my earlier smear. Post at 15.40pm is a tad late but better than nothing!
I love this dividing line - “Borrow for recovery although it may seem counter-intuitive”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8318233.stm
293. Wayne , Thought you might have.
Mike, any chance of a new thread with a new topic that might get us off this friggin tim bandwagon?
308. If you don’t rack up more money on your credit card you might not have a nice Xmas this year ???
Scorched earth policy by Darling.
318 - How about one on AWS.
You could tell us how you don’t support or understand it but don’t need to because Dave is grrrreat.
Is this the first of the “A Bloke is for Christmas” moves
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/goldlist/2009/10/mark-versallion-steps-down-as-ppc-for-stretford-and-urmston.html
313.
O/T Touch wood, I should get a mention in the acknowledgments for the new edition of the London Railway Atlas by Ian Allan, out early next year I think.
sorry 313 is now 318!
311
I didn’t want to mention the war…
303. tim, that article is written by someone who has already written about it in the Guardian so it is mere froth from the Guardian’s campaign.
I think there is no doubt that the Obama administration IS worried about the direction of travel re the Tories and the EU but dont fool yourself into thinking that this is down to Mr Kaminski: he merely provides a useful prextext.
US presidents, and democrat ones in particular, are very keen on a more united EU and want the UK to be a part of it as it might mean the EU taking more responsiblity for its own security rather than relying on the Americans, and they want the British involved because that will, they think, keep the EU nicely pro-American.
Understandably then, it is not in the US interes for the UK to become semi-detahced regarding the EU: its up to Cameron (and any british prime minister) to do what he thinks is in Britain’s interest regarding the EU.
Evening all. I see Ken Clarke has extracted an apology from Legg.
If this news doesn’t bring about a “Brown Bounce” I’ll eat my hat
Stand by for a Labour revival in the next set of opinion polls and Gord will bide his time until Friday when figures could show that the UK has exited recession
The pound has rallied after the Bank of England said its monetary policy committee voted 9-0 earlier this month not to pump more cash into the economy.
The pound was up 1.8% against the dollar at $1.6630, and up 1.1% against the euro at 1.1087 euros.
The MPC was also unanimous in agreeing to keep interest rates on hold at 0.5%.
The decision not to inject more money was seen as a positive sign that the UK economy was recovering and did not need further help from the central bank.
Figures out on Friday could show that the UK has exited recession.
Hung Parliament anyone??
Right I’ll get my coat
321
Ian Allen publishing eh?
I think I’ve got a mention in some book somewhere - though the somewhere is in Japan.
320 what about one on the governor of the Bank of Englands speech and how Gordon saved the world
323 - some good pictures of German and Russian officers meeting in the middle of Poland, taken from the film: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2874705920/tt0879843
****** Betting Post ******
For those who think Brown will
have been chucked outretire before the next GE, the outstanding bet appears to be the 8/1 odds available from Paddy Power that he leaves office during the 3 month period from 1 December 2009 - 28 February 2010, which look the three most likely months for him to step down anyway. If he were still to be in place at the end of Feb, he would then appear virtually certain to last the course.This bet looks far better value than the 2/1 odds available from Ladbrokes covering the entire pre-election period.
328 - and on a related note, wasn’t the Spitfire picture use by the BNP one of a Polish-flown example from 303 Squadron?
325 – “Figures out on Friday could show that the UK has exited recession”
If only I had a dime for ever ‘could’ ‘maybe’ and ‘if’ I’d be as loaded as JackW.
tim, you are obsessively interested in the history of Latvia during the second world war. This puts you at odds with your party’s attitude to military history; they thought it of the utmost importance that there should be no inquiry into any matter connected with the Iraq war even when it became clear that the war was started on a premise which turned out to be absolutely false.
Hollokaust deniers are vile but essentially harmless because we know and they know about the stacks of primary sources and tons of secondary scholarship concerning the history of the matter. As far as the Iraqi dead are concerned labour fought tooth and nail to stop the primary evidence being investigated and recorded. So which is worse?
So I wouldn’t go on about military history if I were you.
330. yes that’s right.
325. Perhaps the market couldnt take any more money printing ?
Green Shoots ?
http://www.investortoday.co.uk/News/Story/?title=False%20picture%20of%20property%20recovery%20emerging&storyid=1779&type=news_features
Enquiry levels from distressed sellers have jumped in September as homeowners return to reality after the summer holidays, according to P0rtfolio Pr0perty Rescue. Individuals, landlords and small businesses are being forced to sell their home or residential property assets to avoid future rep0ssession or b@nkruptcy, said the firm.
Distressed seller enquiries from homeowners in major cities in the Midlands and the North surged by more than 60 per cent on this time last year, as recorded by the Distress Index in Q3 2009.
325.
What a comedian you are …. get your hat coat and scarf and walking boots… its a long walk to Scotland, thats the only place where the socialist tribe will feel comfortable after the next election.
Talking of a hung parliament… The only thing that will be hung in this parliament is the Labour Party being hung out to dry !
RF-D
http://www.deroeck.co.uk/planes/Spitfire-Mk-Vb-RFD-AB910-01.html
335. Wayne, WE have more than enough of our own socialists without you encouraging others to move here.
332 - Perhap Hague may be bet advised to collapse the group before someone else does it for him.
ECR Today, Gone Tomorrow?
ECR Today, Gone Tomorrow?
Kassandra
The controversy over Michal Kaminski shows no sign of dying down, indeed as the British election campaign has unofficially started, it seems that Labour will keep it alive. This is causing concern to the Czech Civic Democratic Party (ODS), who have had discrete chats with the EPP group. So far these have come to nothing, but as the adverse publicity builds, it is expected that they would only require a small push to jump ship. This may happen sooner, rather than later. It is known that Edward MacMillan-Scott has a dossier on the ECR group leader and that journalists are making their enquiries. So far, all the speculation has been on Kaminski’s far-right past, but it seems that there is an altogether different line of enquiry being busily pursued by the media that, it is being whispered, could fatally damage the leader and the group.
Meanwhile MacMillan-Scott is awaiting the verdict on his appeal against being thrown out of the Conservative Party. David Cameron, the Conservative leader and Prime Minister in Waiting, is getting nervous about the issue of Europe, partially because he is unable to answer questions about what he would do when Klaus finally signs the Lisbon Treaty. He must hold the party together as long as he can, but will the pro-Europe Tories make a move? Partially, this depends on what the media discover about Kaminski. If they do find something substantial, Cameron’s credibility will be on the line. Will Cameron and William Hague back down and keep close to MacMillan-Scott or will they stay consistent? If they do, and we shall soon know, MacMillan-Scott may, finally, show his hand.
http://neurope.eu/blogs/mindthegap/2009/10/21/ecr-today-gone-tomorrow/
333, 6 - thanks.
Grandly ironic.
Sky News reporting Abdel Basset al-Megrahi has died.
308- The “perverse alliances” of radical Islamists with leftists, seemingly absurd given the immense gulf separating their world views, only makes sense when you see that what unites them isn’t what they are for, but rather what they are against. They can unite as long as their mutual enemy, a capitalist Judeo-Christian western society, remains in existence. Once they have sent that edifice crumbling to the ground, their alliance will be at a natural end and they can then proceed in the happy task of dividing, or squabbling over, the spoils of victory.
Sky is reporting that Al-Megrahi has died.
339. I’m eating my hat.
SNP gain Scotland.
337.
Malcolm… Stop shouting at me, pour youself a cup of tea and have one of Gordons favorite KitKats !
You really do need to calm down a bit old chap you will end up in the loony bin with Gordon.
340 - How do you define a leftist?
340 - Eurasia is at war with Eastasia, and has always been at war with Eastasia. It is in alliance with Oceania and has always been in alliance with Oceania.
341/342 - Major relief for the SNP if confirmed. I don’t think it will boost them as much of the debate is about the principle of releasing a convicted mass murderer. However, had he survived beyond the three months and even into an election campaign, it would have been a major burden. Wonder if it will have an impact on the by election?
340 I think S&S is just projecting the form of the GOP alliance of Hard Core Deep South Christians, NeoCons and Libertarians on others.
346. Glasgow NE : Gandhi v Ghastly ?
347 - Indeed, many people seem to define themselves by what tey are opposed to rather than what they are for. Look at that Tory group in the European Parliament for example.
Megrahi’s lawyer denying he has died. So who trusts a lawyer?
NO EU REGIONS!!!!!!!
350 - I do.
350. Sky news “Never wrong for long” ?
350 - What a farce.
343. Wayne , I thought we were having a pleasant tete-a-tete, no idea where you think I was shouting, apologies if I have startled you.
Didn’t Sky wrongly announce the deaths of Yeltsin and The Queen Mother?
341. As an SNP supporter, I’m certainly not going to be dancing on the grave of al-Megrahi - a man I’ve long been convinced had no connection at all to the Lockerbie bombing.
Incidentally, the Angus Reid poll yet again fails to bear out the PB.com myth that won’t go away - that the Labour vote is holding up significantly better in Scotland. As far as I can see, they’re down 13 points in GB as a whole, and 10 points in Scotland.
BBC - ‘Scary’ UK climate ad faces probe
“A £6m government ad warning about climate change is to be investigated by watchdogs over claims it is misleading and too “scary” for children.”
6 million quid!!
Adam Boulton says Sky still trying to verify details. Apparently Scottish Lawyer has said he spoke to Abdel Basset al-Megrahi earlier today.
Thanks above for pointing out Freedland’s article. The thing itself was obvious tosh, but I was most amused to read the CiF Brigade demanding that Britain become the 51st State with Hilary Clinton curbing the Nazi Tories.
357. No investigation that it is full of lies ?
Just before Copenhagen too - hmm..
355
Together? Wow that would have been some story. Former Russian president and Queen Mum found dead in bizarre love tryst suicide pact.
360.”Just before Copenhagen too - hmm..”
Yeah, I noticed that as well. How much taxpayers money will Brown spend to prop up his premiership and this government by the time he is finished?
359 - There’s a good story circulating that the Czechs may collapse the group and put Hague out of his Euro misery.
361. Yes poor phrasing on my part! The false reports were of course some time apart!
356
“I’m certainly not going to be dancing on the grave of al-Megrahi - a man I’ve long been convinced had no connection at all to the Lockerbie bombing.”
My sentiments exactly James.
340-Crumb of comfort that Socialsits and (National) Socialists fell out soon enough before final victory over the Capitalist West.
357
If it’s the eye-wateringly awful propaganda one I saw, it can’t have cost 6 grand let alone 6 million.
It made me want to go out and set fire to some oil wells just to spite the po-faced people behind it.
353.
Maybe we should ask the government they might know …. second thoughts, best not - it took them a month before they said anything about his release !
363 – Hague’s Euro misery only exists in your own tiny mind which is why you repeat it so infernally… change the record.
364
Damn. That could have been the story of the century
363, what would it take to put you out of our misery?
363 tim
Don’t worry tim. Cameron has just come off the line to Medvedev. Russian tanks are being dispatched to Strasbourg and Brussels.
ETA 06.00 22.10.09.
359 It certainly amused me that people who for years have been denouncing our subservience to the USA are rushing to condemn the Conservatives for not agreeing the US Administration.
371 - A PB AWS.
372 - The Thatcher Flypast and Berlin Armoured Bricklayers Brigade?
363: ‘There’s a good story circulating that the Czechs may collapse the group and put Hague out of his Euro misery.’
Now, are you sure you didn’t just make that up? If you did I’m not criticizing. We all understand you.
Al Megrahi the terrorist, O he is dead then? my duty all ended,
Who have watched his mould of man, big-boned and hardy-handsome
Pining, pining, till time when reason rambled in it and some
Fatal four disorders, fleshed there, all contended?
367 I simply cannot believe £6 million. WTF??? That is about $10m - the budget for a quality 110 minute independent movie, featuring people you will have heard of.
Labour. Knowing the price of nothing - and the value of nothing - since 1997….
363.
If you weren’t so stupid and pathetic, we would be able to laugh at you!
Hows the mood in the bunker.. have you managed to dodge the flying Nokias and KitKats ?
378 “have you managed to dodge the flying KitKats?”
Have a break - have a …. broken nose.
329.Peter, that is a great spot. Thanks.
371.
“363, what would it take to put you out of our misery?
by don(the other one) October 21st, 2009 at 4:54 p
A labour poll score of 32 might give the annoying b4stard a fit of excitement and finish him off.
Oh well - looks like we are stuck with him then!
377.MM, the cost is a scandal, and the timing so cynical. But not a surprise, this is Gordon Brown doing what he does best with other people’s money, trying to shore up his own backside in No10.
377-Surely the NAO should investiagte, or is that now full of Labour placemen too? Is this a way for Labour to siphon more money into their cronies’ pockets?
Plus the fact that the government is spending money blatantly promoting its own agenda….Should the Electoral Commission intervene? Surely a more valid complaint than some made up anguish about an article in a national newspaper.
Looks like the postal strikes are definately ON…
Cheerio, cheerio, cheerio….
376. The next bit is weirdly prescient on GMH’s part.
Sickness broke him. Impatient he cursed at first, but mended
Being anointed and all; though a heavenlier heart began some
Months earlier, since I had our sweet reprieve and ransom
Tendered to him. Ah well, God rest him all road ever he offended!
379.
lol
374 tim
The Thatcher Flypast
If pigs can fly, then I guess tanks can too.
Labour are back to facing meltdown square in the face then?
If Magrahi is innocent why did the Libyans give him and his oppo up?
That is what I can never get an answer to.
Is he honoured by Ghadaffi because he was a martyr to protect someone else?
The only candidate mentioned for that honour is not a Libyan, is he? So why the surrender and the compensation payments?
Can someone who really knows tell me what’s on there? (And without banging on about how merciful Scotland blather, blather, blather.)
CWU saying Mandelson ‘choreographing’ a dispute…
Yay !!!
This postal strike is going ballistic in time for Christmas and Gordon’s name is going to be in the frame…
Cammo’s performance at PMQs was a bit woeful, but looks prescient in view of the presser now taking place..
Gordon’s performance in particular will now be the lead story on the Six and the Ten…
390. Dancing Queen ?
Cameron’s performance was spot on if you look at all the news outlets. Prescient indeed.
Billy Hayes - ‘Mandelson Minister Without Responsibility’ - ‘wants to wash his hands’..
389
“If Magrahi is innocent why did the Libyans give him and his oppo up?”
I think its called politics.
Besides would you trust a trial where the only witness who can provide any link whatsoever between the accused and the crime was paid 2 million dollars by the prosecutors to make sure he gave evidence?
Billy Hayes - ‘has [mandy] heard of email ?’
Er, isn’t that the cause of the problem with Royal Mail ?
Whoa - Billy Hayes is gunning for Mandy et al.
Good move by Cameron at PMQs.
They are totally stupid to strike but if they’re going to do it…
Looks like Cameron is going to have to step in, to resolve this dispute.
Labour could come out of the postal strikes in a marginally stronger position than they went into it - if they take on Billy Hayes and the CWU they’ll be taking on one of the few bodies less popular than they are.
OT [is that possible?]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/21/stephen-gately-polydor-jan-moir
“Polydor Records, the label representing Stephen Gately’s band Boyzone, has filed an official complaint to the Press Complaints Commission about Jan Moir’s controversial Daily Mail column about his death.
Moir’s article, which was published on Friday, the day before Gately’s funeral in Dublin, has so far attracted more than 25,000 complaints.
A spokeswoman for Polydor Records confirmed to MediaGuardian.co.uk that the label has submitted a complaint to the PCC, but would give no details as to the specific issues raised. “The PCC is now considering this new complaint,” a commission spokesman confirmed…”
Postal strikes - unless you run a business or its your birthday the only thing that comes through the mail is junk and bills.
2 days off is a blessed relief.
Quiz question: Can anyone remember anything that has ever been said in the EU parliament, other than Dan Hannan’s anti-Brown tirade? [No Googling...]
The obvious answer is the time when Ian Paisley heckled the Pope and denounced him as the Antichrist.
——-
There is a picture in the ITN Factbook, which I got as a birthday present in 1990, and I believe was a one-off publication, with a picture of a demonstration in one of the Baltic States showing a combined effigy of Hitler and Stalin as a two-headed monster.
I’ve also got the 1990 ITN Factbook. It’s never occurred to me before that it was a one-off, or that I haven’t seen it in the shops in subsequent years. At the front it says that it is intended to be an annual book.
399 Unfortunately, the CWU are one of largest affiliated Labour donation unions.
“Er, isn’t that the cause of the problem with Royal Mail?”
No the problem is that in spite of the boom created by the growth in on line shopping they are being forced by regulation to make the final delivery for other couriers at a knock down price so as to ‘increase competition and improve customer service’.
If the givernment and the EU really want an open market in mail delivery then they should make the courier companies do the full delivery from pick up to door step delvery under the sames rules and with the same constraints as Royal Mail. See how profitable it is for them then.
IF Labour take on Billy Hayes - That is a very big IF, and an ever bigger IF that they do so successfully, without the CWU and Royal Mail getting involved in a ’scorched earth’ fight to the death..
The collateral damage for Brown could be huge…
403 Oh dear…what a pity…never mind…
R5 - ‘Minister without Responsibility’ running now.
A very damaging soundbite against Mandy
“He’s working hand in hand with Royal Mail to undermine the service’ IIRC the quote.
OUCH
Does the postal disruption have any impact on the Glasgow by election. If postal votes are held up in sorting offices and don’t get counted on the appointed day, will the count be delayed. Any precedents?
401
It’s my birthday on Friday
Billy Hayes ‘David Cameron being completely unhelpful..’
Random quiz question: Who defended his gay colleague from homophobic criticism by rejecting attacks on “things that are purely in the private sphere”? Bonus points: When? Who was the colleague?
Billy Hayes really sticking it to Mandy.. “Will he not like that !”
Flying Nokias in Number 10 tonight I feel…
408
It’s ok, they’ll just print off some more…
Wow…. I’ve just run the numbers through my spreadsheet (i was bored one day). It came up with the following (england only)
con: 380 (+176)
lab: 122 (-153)
ld: 30 (-22)
others: 1 (-1)
thats a large swing
410 To who?
410 Well he would say that wouldnt he..
403&405.Plato&Pickles, haven’t the CWU been making noises for months now about withdrawing their donations to the Labour Party?
408. Definitely not. A vote must be received by the Returning Officer by the close of poll (10pm) in order to be counted. Any that are delayed or lost for whatever reason, and which arrive late, cannot be counted.
404 - Richard, it’s not often I agree with you, but spot on there.
409
Happy birthday for Friday John. You may have to wait for cards but at least there are plenty of people here ready to wish you many happy returns.
417 ChristinaD - not sure - Unite did recently which I assume was cheque book rattling.
Richard Tyndall that is partly my point. Every time I ask why Libya should give Megrahi up I am told the evidence was not secure.
Fine, lets take that as read.
Exactly what political circumstances made Ghadaffi give the man up and pay compensation when the only other suspect is not Libyan?
399 - The government will act tough for a while and will try to quietly cave in when they hope nobody is looking.
418.Wouldn’t those postal votes have to be delivered personally to the Polling Station on the day if the strike threatened to delay them arriving on time?
424
which sort of defeats the object doesn’t it?
423 Shurely not! I suspect you are right and it’ll be a joint ‘victory for commonsense’ when it happens.
Still, Hayes does seem to be in full sail right now.
Richard Tyndall - Fair point.
The ‘bruvvers’ are talking a good game, but I think there is a bit of intransigence on both sides considering they are in an industry where the internet is proving to be a big threat but a small opportunity.
380 Christina - you’re very welcome.
421.Plato, just checked, and yes they have been threatening to withdraw their funding. So has Unison.
Unite have got Charlie Whealan in the PR department, and I think they see themselves as becoming the big Union power broker who can dominate the Labour party right now.
OT The url says it all
Feel older with each paragraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/6398896/50-technological-advances-your-children-will-laugh-at.html
424, there will be lots and lots still sat in the pillar boxes, in the back of trucks, awaiting sorting etc. There is the potential for thousands to be delayed and thus not counted.
428.Peter, just placed a wee bet on that tip. Thanks.
422
At the time Al-Megrahi was surrendered Libya was in the process of trying to get itself back in the good books with the West. Which of course worked. One of the obvious pre-requisits for being accepted as having reformed would have been the surrnder of the men the West accused of having committed one of the worst terrorist acts in modern history. It really isn’t that difficult to imagine that Ghadaffi would see this as a price worth paying. Particularly if he thought there was a good chance they would get off.
429 - What’s the point of dominating the Labour party right now? They can’t do anything controversial this close to an election and after the election won’t be in a position to do anything period.
Once Stuart Dickinson gets his way, the Royal Mail won’t have to deliver from John o’ Groats to Lands End.
410 “Billy Hayes ‘David Cameron being completely unhelpful..’”
Yeah, because David Cameron is the Prime Minister, isn’t he?
Has anyone managed to get clarity on Al-Megrahi?
Surrendering (i.e. sacrificing) the innocent Megrahi was presumably considered by Gaddafi to be a price worth paying for the many millions of dollars worth of trade and investment which became possible as a result of sanctions being lifted. Also, it is reasonable to assume that Gaddafi may have thought that there was a good chance of Megrahi being acquitted.
I shall drink a very good bottle of wine if Labour are punished for their disastrous tenure and worse still, scorched earth policy. I pray I shall never live under a Labour Government for the rest of my life. EU or otherwise!
Just come in from walking the dog and see the strike really is going to happen. I can’t believe it, assumed it would be a last minute trip to ACAS!
Flipping fussing blinking blunking winking wonking boll*cks.
My business does still rely on postman pat as most providers require hardcopy ‘wet’ signatures (no faxes/scans) and company correspondence needs to go on letterhead with regulatory disclosures on it… email is great but limited therefore.
Winking wonking clunking barking dicking knackers. They are mad!
437. No, but my instinct is that Sky have got it wrong (again). The solicitor seemed very sure of his facts.
Al Megrahi story OFF Sky website.
Never wrong for long
Mr Dale on Bedford
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/10/bedford-aftermath.html
“I didn’t write about the Bedford mayoral election last week as I was concentrating on Bracknell, so allow me to share a few thoughts now. Much has been written about the Open Primary, most of it derogatory and blaming it for the fact that the LibDems pipped the Conservatives to the post in winning the election. It’s a very simplistic viewpoint but one which needs answering.
Since the mayoral election it has been announced that the Bedford Deputy Mayor, and one of the losing participants in the Open Primary, has been expelled from the Party for two years. The reason, I am told, is that she refused to support the winner, Parvez Akhtar, and then proceeded to undermine him throughout the campaign.
That didn’t surprise me. Despite consenting to every aspect of the running of the Open Primary, including coming on the stage afterwards to endorse the winner, Nicky Attenborough had a face like a saucer of sour milk. Afterwards she sent a bitter email to Eric Pickles saying that the winning candidate had packed the meeting and that most of the people there either couldn’t speak English or were Liberal Democrats or Labour. Utter balls…”
Cammo exchanges at PMQs now getting primetime coverage on BBC Six..
435. “Once Stuart Dickinson gets his way, the Royal Mail won’t have to deliver from John o’ Groats to Lands End.”
So the SNP have recruited one of the world’s leading rugby referees? We’re on the march!
422 Overtly, UN sanctions. Non-overtly dunno, but how amazed would you be to learn that it was put to Ghadaffi that Mr and Mrs Cruise-Missile would be paying a visit to Tripoli if a defendant wasn’t put up, sharpish? (See under Sudan and Afghanistan August 1998)?
and bear in mind we are talking about people with a tendency to self-immolation on the promise of 72 virgins (or raisins) in paradise. My theology on this is sketchy but possibly M thought he would earn 72 virgins (or raisins) by taking the rap.
Robc
Despite some stupid comments earlier on suggesting Cameron picked the wrong topic at PMQs it now looks like he choose very well.
Welsh Labour Leader Election
MPs support declared so far
Carwyn Jones: 14 MPs
Edwina Hurt: 3
Huw Lewis: 4
8 MPs not declared yet. A couple of them (Peter Hain and Wayne David) won’t endorse anyone. So 6 MPs are still out there…
Just as reminder: AMs split in the following way:
Hart 10
Jones 9
Lewis 6
(Rhodri Morgan stays neutral)
Affiliates organizations nominations:
Unite for Hart
Unision for Jones
Co-Op for Lewis
CLPs so far
Jones: Aberavon, Bridgend, Alyn & Deeside, Ogmore, Wrexham
Lewis: Aberconwy, Clwyd West, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Torfaen
Hart: Swansea East
Deadline for supporting nominations is tomorrow
james landale - risk is that Government are going to take the flak for the pain taken by the public.
434.James, you have not noticed the way that Unite is trying to get favoured candidates elected to Labour safe seats?
440,
Hope your business isn’t affected too badly.
441 James Kelly
Perhaps his God thought twice about granting him compassionate release?
430
Thanks a lot.
No mention of punched cards or paper tape for computers or ferrite ring core store.
I don’t feel old, I feel ancient
389. I posted lots of detailed information about what really happened over Megrahi and the real reason he was released the day after it happened. If you go back you should be able to read the details.
In summary.
The consensus opinion amongst experts is that Iran was responsible for the Lockerbie bombing, not Libya.
The Iranians bombed the airliner as an act of revenge for the accidental downing of an Iranian airliner the year before.
It was blamed on Libya for two reasons. First Libya was a much softer target that was also heavily engaged in terrorism. Second the Megrahi deal would justify a peace accord with Libya, which could then be made more acceptable to the public.
There is extensive documentary evidence to backup these conclusions. Citations were posted.
International politics is extremely dishonest and corrupt.
What do we expect when the various government oligarchies get together to collude in the enslavement of their populations?
Britain under Labour has become one of the most dishonest and corrupt nations in the western world.
‘Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem.’
Despite all the hoopla here this poll tells us nothing new.
Voting for the odious and useless Conservative Party has always been a uniquely English disease and looks set to continue being so.
There is something about the psyche of the English that gives them a permanent but mistaken belief that they are hard done by and with it the need to demonise whoever they deem to be guilty be it Europe, Scots, immigrants or whoever the latest bogey hate figure du jour happens to be.
The odious Conservative Party with it’s divide and rule dogwhistle approach to everything has always chimed best with this repugnant mentality.
Oh I forgot ! They are all liberal now. Sorry. I salute those great liberals Anne Widdecome, Gerald Howarth, Edward Leigh et al.
NEXT !
440 - Start using Hays DX, is whom we use at work, Royal Mail suck.
450 - Yes but what does it do for them? Influencing Labour after the next election will be as useful as prodding a flensed carcass in the vain hope of signs of life.
Postal votes in Glasgow NE
The Returning Officer is apparently making alternative arrangements for a postal strike. Private firm to deliver ballot papers and possibly central collection points. I’m sure that such arrangements can be made in such a way as to enhance the “Glenrothes” factor.
A bit like some of those Afghan polling stations.
453 When I was little, my dad ran a computer business - we had papertape, pajama paper printers, machines the size of car washes and a revolutionary LED matrix isplay that went 00110101010101010100101
483 Oh yes and Winchester ferrite drives that cost £30K each in 1975 - my mobile has more memory these days!!
My mum was rather taken with these weird looking ‘records’ when they were all worn out and had several on our hall wall
458 Plato
He used a Mac?
457, don’t worry. Gordon’s been studying the Afghan and Zimbabwean elections to, er, make sure such mistakes don’t happen here.
458, I’m in my mid-20s, but it’s easy to feel old. Small mobile phones were still science fiction when I started school. My first computer had games on cassettes that took 30 minutes to load.
456.James, the Labour party are about to have a leadership contest and a big debate about the future direction of the party, no surprise that a Union like Unite would like to be at the top table with a big say on the next Leader and their policies. Defeat and a rump of a Parliamentary party didn’t stop certain factions trying to dominate the Conservative party and its leaders post 97′.
457 oldnat
Quite right… I am deeply deeply suspicious of postal voting. The documented cases of fraud have involved many parties - perhaps most parties - but Labour provide most of the cheaters.
Though after Smeaton fell apart, Labour are a nailed on win in Glasgow NE anyway.
Just seen they have released the census questions for next years decennial headcount. The one that makes me laugh is this :-
How well can you speak English?… very well, well, not well or not at all.
If you answer the question with the final answer are you automatically lying? It would seem strange that you could read a language and not speak it.
457.OMG.
464 ROTFL
Who approved these??!!
462 - Yes and look how successful the Conservative party was during that period.
458 at school, when it was a ‘wet playtime’ (snicker), we used to get ‘computer paper’ to draw on - that vaguley light green striped stuff with ring binder edges.
Getting through Uni with no PC and no mobile phone was interesting in hindsight.
Phone on the wall in the hall for cold conversations and having to plunge huge buttons on the front of the 21 inch TV set to change to BBC2 or ITV
*joy*
464, have they taken out all the detailed sex-based questions?
I hope we have a new Jedi idea. Maybe a new ethnic grouping of Morris Dancers.
467.James, didn’t stop them doing it though. You move in when the party is at its weakest. Ask Mandelson, its why he was able to return to front line politics, and look how he has been rewarded, not bad for someone who is unelected by anyone.
464, 464 Presumably it will be produced in all sorts of different langages.
469 - I think a tribe of Morris Dancers would be a useful addition to civic life!!
472, we demand the right to wear beards and wave our wiffle sticks
468 That’s pyjama paper!
My dad also ran a rental tv business and I’ll never forget the first ‘proximity’ controlled one.
You couldn’t move your hands without switching channels! Luckily there were only three in c1977.
My first bedroom TV weighed about 4 stone and couldn’t get BBC2 [the perils of a home used as an 'intermittent fault diagnosis centre'].
468 Dyed in some wool somewhere
“BBC2 or ITV” That must have been exciting for you. We only had BBC TV - although I did follow Dr Who from the very first episode with William Hartnell!
474 I remeber the first day of Channel 4 and Paul Coia’s dulcet tone’s ringing out - that was fun
I did not have a TV in my bedroom until I was 16 - then it was a B&W portable with one of those round aerials and a dial tuner (we were not the wealthiest family)
475 hehe, I am only a baby oldie!
411. Hitler, Röhm, 3rd February 1931
Funnily enough Peter Mandelson is 56 today, can’t imagine he will have enjoyed watching the news!
479 - He strikes me as a bit of a narcissist so I imagine he was loving it.
476 Oh yeah - I watched that too - very exciting - the choice of Countdown was weird though.
I think I had my first ‘faulty’ TV when I was about 6 or 7. We had one in every room except the bog. It was surreal as all my classmates had BW or nothing - I soon learnt to lie about it.
464/6 - Census forms are available in more than one language.
Obviously.
482, bah. British citizens should be able to speak English.
477 Dyed in some wool somewhere
You were bound to lose the “when I were a lad” competition!
We didn’t have electricity until I was 8 years old!
479: there’s a joke there somewhere about cards in the post
481 good old Whiteley
‘A brand new channel and a brand new quiz’
Cannel 4 was an awesome channel in the 80s
Richard Tyndall October 21st, 2009 at 5:51 pm
All fine at one level, but wouldn’t it have been just as effective to co-operate with western intelligence agencies to finger the real culprit. Especially if that were a non-Libyan.
And then to double admit responsibility by paying compensation.
The only viable explanation has to be the protection of someone important to the regime and that would have to be family or someone very close to the top I would think - the pinnacle of the regime. Has that ever been suggested.
Ghadaffi would not, except in extreme circumstances, as a middle eastern politician, give up his own people to protect a non-national as his own folk would not like that at all. He would have to find another way, however expensive. Just imagine him trying to explain to his henchmen: “I have sent them to a foreign jail for life and paid millions to protect an Iranian/Palestinian who I like and want to save”.
What could those extreme circumstances be?
So I still need some convincing that handing over two government agents for life imprisonment and then paying compensation was the easiest way to get back into the fold.
Cammo exchanges at PMQs now getting primetime coverage on BBC Six..
by Eric ‘Branston’ Pickles October 21st, 2009 at 6:04 pm
150 Don .So you think a petty piece of party politicking at PMQ is the real reason why Cameron avoids this issue?
by RobC October 21st, 2009 at 2:35 pm
RobC, are you starting to get it now?
484 - What we need is Jack W to tell us about life 100 years ago.
Blowing my own trumpet time. I’ve lost a stone in weight since starting training for London
I’ll have much less of a carcass to drag 26 miles at this rate.
Stunning sub-poll. And with Wales looking just as bad, this is a apocalyptic scenario.
445
Haven’t seen him lately. Does he still ref ?
487
You obviously forget the scale of what was given in return in terms of access to Western Markets. The decision to give up the two men and pay compensation was a complete no brainer as far as the economics of the issue went.
482 tim
If you require a census form in a foreign language, will you still be able to answer “very well” to the question?
Bugger the Middle England (based at the bottom (southern)edge
)Party are coming!!!!
Lock up your daughters….
Love the naming and shaming bit though
482 Only if you can read English or Welsh and then ring the phone line to ask for other language assistance.
“Householders will have a choice to submit their answers to census questions online or by post. New web services are being created for the online questionnaire and an online help centre providing advice and guidance for completing the questionnaire. An accessibility area on the website will provide video and audio assistance, in English and Welsh, for people who are visually impaired or deaf. A multi-lingual telephone helpline will also be available.”
http://www.ons.gov.uk/census/2011-census/collecting-info/index.html
484 oldnat
lol, yes I will be the groovy one in the OAP home
The (now closed down) video shop at the top of the road used to be a wool shop - whatever happened to wool shops?
490, didn’t realise you were flexible enough to blow your own trumpet
Congrats on your weight loss.
489 James Burdett
Why do you want to hear about such recent times?
487 cont
“Ghadaffi would not, except in extreme circumstances, as a middle eastern politician, give up his own people to protect a non-national as his own folk would not like that at all.”
Having worked in Libya and many other Arabic countries I can assure you that their politicians are no more concerned about screwing people over than those in the West. No better, no worse, just politicians.
oops forgot URL [url]http://community.middleenglandparty.co.uk/service/displayHomePageExperience.kickAction?page=Homepage&as=133374 [/url]
490 – Are you going to wear a fancy-dress costume for the run so we can all point at the skinny chap we all know..?
ITV News: The Royal Mail is going to try to break the strike with a network of Secret Santas!
What?
Oh.
Sorry…it appears they are “Secret Centres” That would have been something…
493 - It is an interesting supposition, I suppose if you were obtuse and requesting it in Welsh or Gaelic you could feasibly answer in that way honestly.
497 - LOL. Erm, I’ll ignore that.
501 - I’ll be wearing a charity vest but anything else would be heavy and negate my cutting down on the drinking and pies.
474. I still have a couple of IBM 8″ floppy disks somewhere in my possession.
502 - I found it very interesting that they have had 100,000 applications already for the minimum wage jobs. The union should ponder that.
And how can they not realise they are killing their company and risking them all going?
505
I assume they are full of white noise if you ever found a machine to play them on.
My dad’s computer cassette tapes were so powerfully impressioned that they couldn’t be used to record off the radio - the screeching modem noise remained even if they were wiped again and again.
Each side was a whole 15 mins!
461. The real generation gap now is whether or not you discovered your first p0rnography under a bush in a railway siding, or on the internet.
[506] - And how can they not realise they are killing their company and risking them all going?
I’m sure they do realise that, but if they have no faith in management’s plans, if they think those plans are going to kill the company anyway, then they have less to lose.
In that situation striking is about the only choice left open to them.
484 Snap - no electricity but we did have a phone though, wonderful wooden box with handle to operate the dynamo (which had great magnets around the coil).
Paraffin lamps in the evening. Wood fired boiler with steam release valve for when it got too hot, great heavy iron irons that were heated on the stove. Civilisation provided by the wondrous paraffin fridge, where the fire burned away underneath but the inside was cold!
@469:
Have the ONS decided to go with a sexual orientation question in next year’s census? I remember there was some controversy a few years ago that they were considering it.
CBI Industrial Orders Expectations:
October -51
Expected -45
September -48
“Above 0 indicates increasing order volume is expected, below indicates expectations are for lower volume;
It’s a leading indicator of economic health - businesses react quickly to market conditions, and changes in their expectations can be an early signal of future economic activity such as spending, hiring, and investment;
Survey of about 550 manufacturers which asks respondents to rate the relative level of order volume expected during the next 3 months”
The ‘economic recovery’ consists of nothing but talk and increasing borrowing ie stealing money from the future.
http://twitter.com/Kevin_Maguire/status/5048444725
Oh dear… Mr Maguire is not happy. What a shame!
508 !!! My ex told me about finding a heap of top-shelf mags on a tip site back in the early 80s.
Clearly it wasn’t just his experience.
The funniest story I ever heard was a chap I was at school with - his dad was a Dutch diplomat and used his baggage to smuggle in loads of very OTT and badly translated p0rn which my friend traded at lunchtime
509. I can remember watching a program about how MI5 and the Police would spy on “subsersives.” In the 1970’s they regularly bugged meetings that Red Robbo had with his henchmen at BL and passed the information on to BL boss Michael Edwardes. He said that their attitude was that if the company wasn’t run to their liking then they would drive it into bankruptcy.
It could be that the CWU are equally shortsighted and dogmatic!
Re PMQs in general.
Have they always been about media sound-bites & political point-scoring, or were they originally used to elicit information?
(No. 10 website says they started in 1961 after a successful experiment when Harold MacMillan was PM.)
492 Richard Tyndall
Megrahi was convicted in a properly constituted court of law and had two appeals against his conviction refused. He was officially guilty.
The arguments against the conviction were not so much that the Libyans and Megrahi weren’t involved, but that the facts of their involvement were not the “whole truth” behind the “full story”.
There was also an argument that the conviction was unsafe due to non-disclosure at trial of the incentives provided to key witnesses to obtain evidence and to certain other evidence not being submitted.
The proper course of action Megrahi to follow, if he and Libya believed he was innocent, was to pursue his options for further appeal to a conclusion. He voluntarily waived this right before being granted compassionate release by MacAskill.
There is obviously a full story yet to be told on the Lockerbie bombing and many aspects of the investigation and prosecution were questionable, but this does not alter the fact that in the eyes of the law Megrahi is and remains guilty of the offence for which he was convicted.
504, you can’t ignore Morris Dancer. I’m the only one here with a horde of enormo-haddock and a giant artillery gun!
511, I’d be tempted to answer that in a very… creative way.
510 A paraffin fridge? That must have been smelly.
515. “subsersives” = subversives.
512 - Rather like pretending someone is alive because they twitched with the application of a defibrillator!!
507 I do remember though that if you stand towards the bottom of the stairs in First Landing in Jet Set Willy for the Spectrum and type ‘writetyper’ it allowed you to use combinations of the keys 1-6 to jump to other rooms.
You could also do it on manic miner, but I forget the code - although if you merge the header and add 15 Poke 35136,0 to the loader programme it gives you infinite lives.
I miss Crash and Your Sinclair magazines.
Wasn’t Ghadaffi’s motive revenge for the US bombing of 1986? (And the bombers flew from UK bases IIRC)
@517:
I think I’d scrap PMQs, and drastically increase the number of times the select committee chairs can grill the PM instead. Maybe two hours, twice a month.
re 516. PMQs were ever thus - thankfully. Who the hell wants it to be an information gathering session?
New Thread
A plutard. Je dois aller au college!.
NEW THREAD
524 - I think I’d leave at least one occassion per session for the PM to be submitted to the Parliamentary Rack.
502 Marquee Mark
The the provision allowing employed of Secret Santas is contained within a hidden clause. Czech it!
516 AnneJGP
An easy solution would be to move PMQs to prime-time. If millions more watched, politicians would be more inclined to use the forum seriously, rather than getting the single soundbite for the news bulletins.
523 Kruddoharan Krysek
Ghadaffi used the Washington Times editor to convey to the Americans that he wanted to deal -
“Megrahi was a small cog in a much larger conspiracy. After a long interview with Gaddafi in 1993, this editor at large of The Washington Times asked Libya’s supreme leader to explain, off the record, his precise involvement in the bombing of Pan Am Flight
103, which killed 270 over Lockerbie, Scotland, on Dec. 21, 1988, and for which Libya paid $2.7 billion in reparations. He dismissed all the aides in his tent (located that evening in the desert about 100 kilometers south of Tripoli) and began in halting English without benefit of an interpreter, as was the case in the on-the-record part of the interview.
Gaddafi candidly admitted that Lockerbie was retaliation for the July 3, 1988, downing of an Iranian Airbus. Air Iran Flight 655, on a 28-minute daily hop from the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas in the Strait of Hormuz to the port city of Dubai in the United Arab Emirates on the other side of the Gulf, was shot down by a guided missile from the Aegis cruiser USS Vincennes. The Vincennes radar mistook it for an F-14 Tomcat fighter (which Iran still flies); 290 were killed, including 66 children. A year before, in 1987, the USS Stark was attacked by an Iraqi Mirage, killing 37 sailors. The Vincennes skipper, Capt. William Rogers, received the Legion of Merit, and the entire crew was awarded combat-action ribbons. The United States paid compensation of $61.8 million to the families of those killed on IR 655.
Gaddafi told me, “The most powerful navy in the world does not make such mistakes. Nobody in our part of the world believed it was an error.” And retaliation, he said, was clearly called for. Iranian intelligence subcontracted retaliation to one of the Syrian intelligence services (there are 14 of them), which, in turn, subcontracted part of the retaliatory action to Libyan intelligence (at that time run by Abdullah Senoussi, Gaddafi’s brother-in-law). “Did we know specifically what we were asked to do?” said Gaddafi. “We knew it would be comparable retaliation for the Iranian Airbus, but we were not told what the specific objective was,” Gaddafi added.
As he got up to take his leave, he said, “Please tell the CIA that I wish to cooperate with America. I am just as much threatened by Islamist extremists as you are.”
521
You can continue to believe that fairy tale if you like Seth but few other people who have seen the evidence do. And thaht includes many of the families of those who died.
Being found guilty in a court of law does not mean one committed the crime. And any conviction based on the evidence of someone paid millions of dollars by the US government to finger someone does not make for a safe conviction.
Megrahi was dying. He had already seen his appeal delayed for more than 4 years by the government using every tactic they could to try and make sure the case didn’t come back to court. Given the choice between dropping the appeal and being allowed to go home or continuing and dying in Scotland I know which one I would have made.
503. true but it is thought the last welsh monoglots in Wales died out in the 1980s in the LLyn penisula. Monoglots never really get beyond primary school in Wales. Have no idea about Scotland though.
80 “if he’s Oxbridge then it certainly rules out his being thick.”
You forgot the smiley.