What do we know about BNP voters?
October 22nd, 2009
They feel poorer, less safe and believe politicians are corrupt
One of most useful surveys this year was the YouGov mega-poll before the June Euro elections for Channel 4. This had a sample of 32,268 and is presented in a form where we can see the responses of party supporters to a range of attitudinal and personal background questions.
The table featured above looks at party allegiance and the views of their parents and suggests that BNP supporters are almost twice as likely to have been brought up in Labour households and Tory ones.
Compared with supporters of all the other parties BNP voters are much more likely to be dissatisfied with their economic prospects, have more worries about losing their jobs and feel less safe on the streets near their homes.
They have, of course, the strongest views on immigration, with more than three quarters believing that white people are discriminated against and 70% believe that Muslims have unfair advantages.
They are none too keen on BBC journalists and have less trust in senior police officers than the rest. They also have the most negative views of their local MPs.
The whole document is well worth looking at. There are no real surprises but you get a good feel from the responses of about 1,000 people who said they were voting BNP on June 4th.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
Thirst
first ?
So they don’t watch Question Time.
“They feel poorer, less safe and believe politicians are corrupt”
I think that applies to all voters…!
47% said their parents generally voted Labour.
That’s the figure that’s hurting.
Just too late - thanks Mike confirms what we all know that BNP supoorters would overwhelmingly vote Labour if they didn’t exist. Probably why Labour is so keen to ban them
From the figures above, it seems that BNP voters came from very similar families to Green voters.
Applying Labour’s politics of association, this means that the Green party is henceforth to be considered racist and fascist.
I’m surprised at the 27% in the overall sample for “my parents generally voted Conservative”.
Do Tories not have children?
FPT:
524 - sounds like you subscribe to The ChapManifesto. If not, you should!
The Chap proposes to take a stand against this culture of vulgarity. We must show our children that the things worth fighting for are not the latest plastic plimsolls but a shiny pair of brogues. We must wean them off their alcopops and teach them how to mix martinis. Let the young not be ashamed of their flabby paunches, which they try to hide in their nylon tracksuits - we shall show them how a well-tailored suit can disguise the most ruined of bodies. Finally, let us capitalise on youth’s love of peculiar argot Ð only replace their pidgin ghetto-speak with fruity bons mots and dry witticisms.
@6:
What do you mean “henceforth”? I’ve considered the Greens that way for years.
Yes, past recall of parents’ votes seems very flawed, given the overall results of general elections 1918-1992. No doubt they all pretended to their kids they voted for Attlee.
@7:
Yes, and then they eat them, remember?
More surprising for me is that 42% of UKIP voters come from Labour backgrounds, and only 32% from Conservative.
[5,6] - The BNP figures are very similar to those for the sample as a whole. The “from a Labour family” bias is very small.
5 Most people’s parents voted Labour according to this. More Tory voters said their parents voted Labour than BNP voters.
I guess Tories have smaller families or none at all. They did manage to win some elections despite no-ones parents voting for them.
I was at Uni the same time as Kier Starmer. It is fair to say is politics were well known and he was not a Tory - he was at the other end of the spectrum.
But I confess, I am rather disappointed in him.
I thought he had more sense and boundaries than to behave as he has.
Ken McDonald did not behave in this way, whatever Mr Stamer says.
FPT 524 Easterross. “…Jack W are mere adolescents in places like Easter Ross”
Huh, huh. Like that’s so unfair !!!
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/19/article-1122227-002DF46500000258-446_468×340.jpg
@12:
It’s not that surprising. It just shows that UKIP supporters are all dreadful nouveau riche oiks.
10 - perhaps they intended to vote, but never quite got round to it. Meanwhile, the Tory voters all turned out always.
Just had an e mail from Shane Greer..
http://www.shanegreer.com/2009/10/22/damian-mcbride-in-the-course-of-ministerial-duties/
7. Of course, if those responses were accurate we would have had a Labour landslide at almost every general election since the war.
FPT. Re SeanT request for thriller plots.
Corrupt Russian oil trader acquires ex-Soviet submarine and starts torpedoing 300,000-tonne supertankers. Threatens to continue the eco-damage unless paid off.
This is a blind. The money is actually made by going long oil futures just before the torpedoes start to fly.
Harvard symbologist shags the girl and rips trader’s tongue out.
If this web site is anything to go by the BNP have got all the publicity they need with or without Question Time.
7. Add in the “Don’t knows”: Tory parents - too ashamed to admit it to their kids!
We can’t know about the BNP as much as Lady Follett did on Newsnight last night. Her mother came from Stoke on Trent dontcha know.
Just checked on wiki and not much mention there of the Potteries however….
Barbara Follett was born Daphne Barbara Hubbard in Kingston, Jamaica 25 December 1942 where her father was an insurance executive. In 1946 the family returned, first to Jersey then in 1947 to Billericay, Essex. In 1952 the family moved to Ethiopia. In 1957 after an unfortunate incident involving her alcoholic father, a toast and a drinks trolley,[2] the family were asked to leave the country and went to Cape Town in South Africa. She began a University degree in Art, but in 1962 had to give it up and started work with Barclays Bank.
She married Richard Turner in 1963 and they went to Paris where she worked for the Berlitz School of Languages. They returned to South Africa in 1966 to run his mother’s fruit farm in Stellenbosch. In 1969 she started working for Kupugani, an organisation that provided cheap food for the poor.
In 1970, on the breakdown of her marriage, she became acting Regional Secretary at the Institute of Race Relations. She worked again for Kupugani from 1971 to 1978. After a brief marriage to Gerald Stonestreet, she married architect Les Broer. In 1978, shortly after her ex-husband Richard was assassinated, the family fled back to England, living at Farnham in Surrey, where she worked for the Centre for International Briefing, and joined the Labour Party.
Heard some quote on Radio 4 once about a foreign journalist who said: “You British talk Left but always vote Right.”
An awful lot of truth in that.
Many people find their pencils irresistibly drawn to marking an “X” in the Conservative box once they reach the privacy of the voting booth.
Herald - Inquiry into Megrahi release announced
“MPs will investigate the release of the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing as part of a wider probe into relations between Westminster and Holyrood, it has been announced.
The inquiry by the Commons Scottish Affairs select committee will also study how a prisoner transfer agreement was negotiated between Libya and the UK.
The committee, chaired by Mohammad Sarwar, Labour MP for Glasgow Central, announced the move.”
BBC newsflash:
Nick Griffin has pulled out of Question Time with an “illness”.
http://tinyurl.com/2w4apm
BNP, Greens and probably UKIP (?) benefiting from the collapse of the “If it wears a Labour rosette, I vote for it” vote. Cant think of anything else that explains the BNP doing well in the North.
27
25. certainly true to a point i think, and the figures in the poll for all parties but especially UKIP about how parents voted are clearly wrong and reflect some people misremembering/lying about how they voted.
however i think there’s also a section of the population, and this helped Labour in 1997 and 2001 and to an extent in 2005 who simply like to vote for the party who is bound to win, which will help the tories next year.
The leader of the Scottish Senior Citizens Unity Party, John Swinburne, has withdrawn from the Glasgow NE by-election. He was widely hyped as the top “Independent” when he first launched his campaign. I think that Shadsy had him about 10/1 at one point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8318037.stm
27. OI! You b*stard
[20] - if those responses were accurate we would have had a Labour landslide at almost every general election since the war.
Er, no. Example.
Generation A: Labour = 50, Tory = 50
Suppose that Labour families have an average of three children and Tory families an average of one. Also, no politically mixed families.
Generation B: From Labour families = 75, From Tory families = 25.
If the Tory families are not hidden in the “don’t knows” or “did not generally support one party”, then it is striking the extent to which the Tory vote is inexorably headed to extinction, unless reinvigorated by a new infusion of voters from “Labour families”.
Tory posters should perhaps be a bit less scathing about people from traditionally Labour backgrounds. Without support from those people, their party would be dead by now.
32 Rickrolled as well Casino?
Skynews Jon Craig on the Boulton&Co blog - Where’s The Discipline?
On a separate note, I thought the line on the Government Front bench was odd yesterday, especially when Brown was left with we Dougie and Peter Hain etc to bolster him. Where were the Senior members, were they all really too busy to attend PMQ’s?
27. Bobbie M = Imbecile.
re Cookie PT. There’s a letter in today’s Indy on the Mayan calendar. it’s true that the current 144,000 day count (Baktun) will expire on 20th December 2012, but this is just Baktun 12 out on 20 in the next larger unit called a Pictun. So there are still another 8 Baktuns to go before the Pictun expires on 19th April 5561, which if I’ve done my sums correctly will be a Wednesday.
33. Yeah. And if had a 10-inch w1lly I’d be a p0rn-star Timothy.
What a lot of hypothetical mumbo-jumbo. This is good old fashioned false-voter recall and Labour recall bias.
Simple as that.
34. Can’t believe I fell for that.
I don’t think MPs are corrupt: I know they are.
Our local MP is as corrupt as any on expenses. (C Atkins, Lab, Staffs Moorlands)
I don’t trust senior policemen. History proves they lie.
In many ways I could be a BNP supporter.. And I live near Stoke on Trent where there are lots of them..
Not good reading for Mike Weir or Pete Wishart in the Scottish media today. Poor Mr Weir was criticising the government in Westminster for doing exactly what the SNP government in Scotland was doing too. Oops.
7. Not altogether surprising given that the poll shows a significantly higher proportion of current voters supporting the Tories than was historically the case.
Burglaries, robberies and theft jump as recession hits
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6885455.ece
[28] - BNP, Greens and probably UKIP (?) benefiting from the collapse of the “If it wears a Labour rosette, I vote for it” vote.
Not really. Compare their Labour parents score with the sample as a whole:
BNP: 47% (+5 on whole sample)
Greens: 43% (+1)
UKIP: 42% (0)
Do the same compared to the Tory parents score:
BNP: 25% (-2)
Green: 24% (-3)
UKIP: 32% (+5)
These are relatively small differences. I haven’t tested for significance, but I think it is hard to conclude that the supporters of these parties are drawn from a population different to that of the country as a whole.
It is hard to use these figures to say the simple things that are often said on here, such as “The Greens are a left-wing protest vote”, or “UKIP voters would vote Tory”, or “The BNP draw their support from ex-Labour voters”. They certainly lean that way, but to a surprisingly modest degree.
33. Also, and I get bored saying this, but Labour have failed to poll 40% or more in EVERY general election since 1970 apart from the Blair landslides of 1997 and 2001.
Remember that guy Tony Blair?
He’s the guy had to move your party substantially to the Right just so you got elected.
Socially and economically England and Wales have been moving to the Right for a long-time now and Trade Unionism has dramatically declined.
If these figures were true then God knows how the Tory landslide of 1955 happened - on a very high turnout.
The most jaw-dropping fact about La Follett was that she was Communities Minister. Which fool put her in that position? She spoke in the most appallingly condescending manner & had nothing to say. The chap from the Runnymede Trust said virtually nothing. Only Tim Lott spoke any sense.
But even now broadcasters are tiptoeing round the subject: sure the BNP get WWC votes but there are plenty more non-WWC people who think immigration is out of control, multiculturalism is a dangerous failure and that the government is doing nothing to counter the dangers of Islamofascism. I would never vote BNP but when Wilders says that when a society lets in large numbers of Muslims it progressively becomes less free I have to say that I agree with him and I wonder whether any of the main parties have any strategy at all for dealing with this. The Liberals don’t; Labour don’t - indeed they have been cravenly appeasing and sucking up to Islamofascists and destroying our liberties as fast as they can and as for the Tories: I just don’t know. Some encouraging signs but does Dave have the ruthlessness to take on the multicultural brigade and say, for instance, that we should no longer permit immigrants from cultures which are hostile to or incompatible with Western liberal democracy or that immigrants from Third World countries must assimilate and become British not live here as if they were still in Somalia or Pakistan or wherever? If these issues are not addressed, then there is a real risk that the BNP will fill that vacuum.
44 “If these figures were true then God knows how the Tory landslide of 1955 happened - on a very high turnout.”
To paraphrase the Leaderene: There Was No Alternative (at the time). Now there is, and, culturally, society is more used to and more demanding of nuanced choice.
I suspect that 2010 may well be the last election fought with the parties as they are currently.
My parents would never disclose who they voted for. Whilst happy to debate issues & policies, they both believed the secrecy of the ballot was a precious thing and stuck to it. Maybe they weren’t alone in that view.
Bobbie M: YOU WIN AT THE INTERNETS
Interesting perspective on how to successfully debate Nick Griffin
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/22/nick-griffin-question-time-debate
Sadly, it doesn’t fill me with hope for tonight.
46 Ah. Liberals.
45,why,what do expect to happen after 2010 ?
45 Would you like to expand on that Tabman svp.
49. lol.
8 Tabman, I had never heard of the book but yes I am very mucha chap, never a bloke!
this thread is reassuring because this morning I was sounding off to a leftie friend who objects to the BNP being heard, pointing out to him that the rise of the BNP is down to middle class Guardianisti types like him moving the Labour Party to abandon the traditional white working class but then pointing out that people like him wouldn’t know what a traditional white working class Labour voter looked like unless his butler introduced him to one!
Labour sparks BBC race row
http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west-london-news/local-harrow-news/2009/10/22/labour-sparks-bbc-race-row-116451-24990347/
Is it me, or the most interesting thing in that table is that
“32% of UKIP voters parents voted Tory and 42% of UKIP voters parents voted Labour”
49
45. “There Was No Alternative (at the time).”
Couldn’t you say something similar about most elections Tabman?
At the end of the day half the population voted Conservative in 1955 on a very high turnout. And this was in an era when almost everyone got married and had (more than one) kid.
Or am I mistaken and all the 1955 Tory voters were actually DINKIES, Nuns and Priests?
54 - Surely Obama wrote the letter to the BBC, not some Brent Councillors.
49, 50 - what this shows is what the recent polls are also showing; namely that Labour’s vote is fracturing four or five different ways.
If the defeat for Labour is bad (and I think it will be) then the tipping point may well be reached when the trickle of support fading away becomes a flood.
The other interesting factor in all this is the stability of the coalition Cameron has put together, if and when it is severely tested in putting in place unpopular measures. One of the great “What Ifs” is what would have happened to Thatcher if it hadn’t have been for the Falklands.
47. MC.
The technical term, I understand, is “Gay-ay-ay”.
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543
Why the need for this? I thought crime was going down
Armed officers placed on routine foot patrol for first time
Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on routine patrol of Britain’s streets for the first time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6407137/Armed-officers-placed-on-routine-foot-patrol-for-first-time.html
53,easterross,do you know if martin day is ok,been to his blog and concerned about what is on there,it’s like some one shouting for help.
49. Ugh! In my experience of campaigning, Lib Dems are the most pious and high-handed. There’s little love lost between Labour and Tory canvassers, but grudging mutual respect at the very least.
57 - The point I was trying to make was that in 1955 anyone who’s leanings were “anti-socialist” only had one home. Now they’ve got several. Both the relative and absolute numbers of votes for Labour and Conservatives as proportions of votes cast and electorate show this.
59. “One of the great “What Ifs” is what would have happened to Thatcher if it hadn’t have been for the Falklands.”
Not really. She would have got back in with a much smaller majority. Noone would have voted for Foot.
A much more interesting “what-if” is someone other than Kinnock in 1992, or no intervention by Enoch and other proto-Thatcherite Tories in 1970.
Those were much more unpredictable elections.
59,and lets guess which party,all these voters will be running to ‘the lib dems’
63. But you could say the same about anyone who was “anti-conservative” in 1955.
It seems you are making a different point - about the rise of the Liberals since 1955.
I am not disputing that. Merely the ridiculous assertion that only 1:4 people had Tory parents whilst 1:2 had Labour parents.
Those numbers are far too out of kilter with the actual election results of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s to be even remotely true.
64. Whilst I agree with that without the Falklands I’m pretty sure the Alliance would have beaten Labour in terms of the popular vote in 1983, probably polling about 30% or so.
62. I suspect it depends where you are. When I was campaigning in South Wales Labour acted like they had a god given right to win the seat and seemed offended that we were campaigning against them. They got really petty and vindictive in some cases.
61 -
I believe all our police should be armed.
Anyway - just wait for the howls when they actually open fire.
Casino - perhaps you will get your wish (a 10″ + new career)
BNP Voters are 25% 18-34, 44% 35-54 & 32% 55+ and are 60% in C2DE.
Likely that their parents would have voted in elections from 1945 (21 year olds in 45 would be 85 now).
Labours share of votes rounded in elections 1945 to 1970:
50, 46, 49, 46, 44,44,48,43, - so 47% from social class C2DE remembering parents being Labour isn’t unlikely is it?
from 74 to 92 Labour didn’t do too well but parents were probably still Labour in name if not practice.
@69:
As long as they stick to popping feral chavs, I doubt anyone will mind too much.
69 “Anyway - just wait for the howls when they actually open fire.”
For criminal damage to a £5 burger…
71. However, given the racial profile of offenders, armed police are far more likely to slot a couple of BEMs.
54 - isn’t that because Dawn Butler is an idiot with two houses in London, (I think) a taxpayer funded whirlpool bath, and who writes letters from Obama to herself and then spells his name wrong?
Whereas Sarah Teather - and I say this as a Tory - is none of those things.
http://blogs.wsj.com/iainmartin/2009/10/22/nick-griffin-and-the-battle-of-tv-centre/
Seriously off-message article in the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/21/jack-straw-bnp-griffin-hain
71 Maybe we can introduce chav-hunting,with its inaugural showing at the London 2012 Olympics!
64 - but that then makes the 1980s very, very different. Would Scargill have won, for example? It would seem hard to envisage four terms in that scenario.
78 The fact the strike started in March,at the end of winter,without a ballot,and against the backdrop of huge stock-piles,means Scargill had little/no chance of winning ie succeeding in knocking out the power supplies
67. Yes.
Of course, if Thatcher had only come out as leader of the largest party (unlikely IMO due to vote fragmentation) she then might have been under massive pressure to form a coalition with the Liberals and push through voting reform.
Had she been outed as leader - despite winning most seats - I’d see that as highly likely.
If she’d remained leader she’d probably have told them to sod off until she’d been deposed or called another election to try and win a majority in 1984/1985.
A quick comment re voters’ parents political affiliations.
Most people tend to move rightwards as they get older. Look at the voting intention profile now and Labour’s best support is in the 30-45 age group: the age group where children are growing up with them.
It’s quite possible that people are more Tory both before and after they have children living with them but their children assume that they’re less Tory that they are across their lifetime because their direct experience is biased by their childhood experiences.
I’m sure there are lots of other effects as well but it’s probably a part of the picture.
http://newsarse.com/2009/10/13/well-strike-until-you-let-us-deliver-all-your-email-say-postmen/
@76:
“New Labour marginalised the white working class, assuming they had nowhere else to go.”
Yes. Taking part of your support for granted is always going to be tactical error.
Can Labour win back the WWC?
74. Not to mention there’s just a few more Labour MPs than Lib Dem ones.
fpt, and indeed upthread, Thanks for all the thrillerplot ideas.
To sum up: thanks Cookie for reading 3/4 of the book. Your comment reminds me of some fanmail I had this week: from sixteen year old Sophie, who said “I thought your book was so good I couldn’t finish it” - like many she found the descriptions of ritual disembowelment a tad de trop, so she had to stop reading.
I have learned from these critiques, and the next thriller, MARKS OF CAIN, is somewhat less gory. Still horrific in parts, but I’ve eased up on the viscera.
It’s out in Feb, order it here! -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marks-Cain-Tom-Knox/dp/0007342616
Re the ideas. The Mayans 2012 prophecy has been done, in a new movie called… 2012.
http://www.whowillsurvive2012.com/
Yes the other preColumbian people are great thriller material. Trouble is I’m already using them - or at least the Moche - in my fourth Tom Knox. But ta anyroad.
At this point I should say that I do have a vague idea of the theme, setting and motifs of the next one, the third. It’s set in the ice age caves of France and the jungles of Cambodia and Laos. It’s about God and faith and Angkor Wat and the mysterious hands of Gargas and the Plain of Jars and why the Khmer Rouge (and their commie succourers in Britain like Alistair Darling and Peter Mandelson) were so cruel.
It’s called the Severed Men.
What I need is cool plot twists, fiendishly clever scenarios, sudden wild developments, that I can feed in to keep the narrative tickin’ over.
But I guess that’s my job, not pb’s…
@85:
What about Norse mythology? Has anybody done a really good Ragnarok novel yet?
61
Armed Police!
Be afraid.
Be very afraid.
An armed police force which is essentially above the law.
Should only be allowed if the remainder of the citizenry is armed.
If the police start taking potshots, it seems unfair that the populace cannot shoot back.
The Mash is on top form today too:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/everyone-hoping-griffin-says-something-about-jews-200910222159/
MILLIONS of people across Britain were today hoping BNP leader Nick Griffin will say something stunningly offensive about Jewish people.
[...]
Mr Griffin has been leader of the BNP since 1999 and was recently voted Britain’s fourth most dangerous human after Prince Philip, Noel Edmonds and Cheryl Cole.
70. “from 74 to 92 Labour didn’t do too well but parents were probably still Labour in name if not practice.”
If there Labour in name but not in practice then they’re not Labour voters, are they?
This is a betting site. It’s about results.
Who cares what people think they are?
It’s what they vote that counts.
75: I can’t see this any anything other than a win-win for Griffin. If he comes across well, then he’ll get more support. And anyone watching will already know what the BNP are all about.
I doubt there will be anyone who suddenly jumps up at the TV screen and suddenly realises ‘ You know what…these BNP fellows don’t like black people!’
89. Casino Royale: It’s what they vote that counts.
That’s true, but what we’re talking about here is how their children think they vote, which is not necessarily the same thing.
Belfast Telegraph -
Editor’s Viewpoint: ‘Let us push ahead on policing transfer’
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/viewpoint/editors-viewpoint-let-us-push-ahead-on-policing-transfer-14538231.html
4 tibetans executed in China
http://www.freetibet.org/
Remind me why we’re paying them?
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2009/10/mps-to-break-up-early-for-xmas-tories-object.html
@94:
It seems unlikely that the anaemic parliamentary programme can fill all the time between now and March anyway.
I have found a useful site for playing Buzzword Bingo with Nick Griffin tonight:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#J
First it was Islington Labour, now Kentish Town Greens are using some of my station pics!
http://greenkentishtown.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/support-camdens-greens-calling-for-camden-to-sign-up-to-1010-campaign/
Mike - I don’t vote BNP or support them, but I reckon that 75% of that list of attributes of BNP supporters apply to me as well.
Little wonder they are picking up support from “Average Joe”
97. Sunil P.
You have to love free content.
87 - Sunil have you ever taken a picture at Penrith train station? I think you should
http://bearcastle.com/blog/wp-images/2008/penrith-station.jpg
100 - was of 97, not 87
Wouldn’t today bea great day for the Government to bury bad news?
Oops I forgot every day is a good day for this Government to bury bad news (well at least from the viewpoint of the next one).
77 Where would we host the chav-hunting competition? south-west Essex? Victoria Beckham could be seconded as a judge.
86 - Martin - Read ‘expecting someone taller’ by Tom Holt. It’s a comedy rather than a thriller but its great fun. Also ‘Who’s afraid of Beowulf’ which is the same book but set in Caithness rather than Somerset.
85 - Should add that I thought the bits which I did read were very good, btw. You can tell Tom Knox’s alter ego is a sometime travel writer; my favourite bits were the travel-writing bits. I usually find fiction a little stressful for my tastes, to be honest.
64 The best political “what if” is Anthony Wells’ novel (IIRC) “What if Gordon Banks had played?”
What do people think of Ken Livingstone’s claim that the far-right is a problem for dying Labour governments that disappears when the government changes? By imposing a relatively low cap on net migration into Britain, couldn’t Cameron simply cut the ground from underneath the BNP?
I think CCHQ may have made the tactical calculation that it’s better for the BNP to exist, and drain Labour’s ‘natural’ WWC support rather than resolve the immigration question and allow Labour to rebuild its electoral base.
75. I have no doubt NG will enter TVC via one of the side entrances. There are alterntive ways to get in. There is one so obvious that I am sure the protestors will miss it.
91. Which leads to the danger of drawing false conclusions from these numbers.
I’m not taking them too seriously.
@105:
There’s a certain amount of historical evidence for the claim, in the form of the NF evaporating once Thatcher came to power.
We’ll know in a few years if BNP supporters start going back to Labour once they’re in opposition.
106: I took a tour of TVC back in July…interesting place.
106 If TVC has the same architecture as when I worked there about 10 yrs ago - you can get in via a tunnel from the opposite side of Wood Lane.
95. Martin. I know this is anathema to the government but if there isn’t sufficient government business to fill parliament’s time, why not let backbenchers have a go?
100 TSE dear chap Penrith is a beautiful little town with its winding streets with traditional shops, Norman castle and wonderful pubs in the little vennels.
Are there any Mark Senior by-elections today where the BNP has a fighting chance?
85 - Ooh, ooh, I know Sean - have a plot twist about divining. I saw someone divining once, at Castlerigg. It’s the only inexplicable phenomena I’ve ever seen. It was awesome. He passed the diving rod to a fat American in a baseball cap to have a go, with the same result. The loko of childlike awe on the Amercian’s face was a joy to behold.
105. But do you think CCHQ have made a Machiavellian calculation? As well as fanning WWC dissent, mass immigration also helps to depress wage levels for the unskilled and semi-skilled, thus keeping Tory businessmen and the upper-middle classes content.
105: It’s probably more than given the BNP ‘powerbase’ is in labour areas, they locally don’t have the ability to compete with them, and it would harder given the ‘tory=scum’ mentality of a lot of the industrial towns they focus on.
61,87
I wonder what these hoodlums would have done if they’d had SMGs?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222154/Riot-police-spray-CS-gas-eyes-girl-10-raiding-brothers-birthday-party.html
112 - I spent a few hours in and around Penrith a few years ago, during a holiday in Scotland.
Is a lovely lovely place, I will visit again. Not sure when, but I will.
103. Ta. Actually this is the market I am trying to corner.
Kind of Dan Brown meets Bruce Chatwin. A (hopefully) strong and kinetic plot allied to proper travel writing, with real atmospherics and spooky scene-setting.
I went overboard on the blood and guts in the first one, the second is maybe more balanced between the two. J’espere.
118: I wouldn’t worry about it too much Sean. Theres a lot of competition in the ‘dan brown’ sector of fiction at the moment, so anything which stands you out can’t be a bad thing. For what its worth, I liked the book, with the travel sections when your leading man is at the dig being the most interesting.
112. Easterross.
No BNP candidates today AFAICT.
http://www.vote-2007.co.uk/index.php?topic=3635.msg122999#msg122999
All today’s by-elections are in Conservative-held seats.
110. Then of course there is the secret Underground Station beneath TVC (allegedly).
Anyway, I will soon be setting off to travel to White City (oh, the irony!). Wish me luck in the fight against the far-right.
Hopefully I will be able to provide a heads-up at around 9:30ish when I get back home from the recording.
100. Oh Penrith is too far to go on a day trip LOL!
But did you know the Tube have banned wan…um, I mean playing with oneself?
http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=10127&pos=2
I’ll get me coat…
Further to my 120. I tell a lie. I’m blind! There’s one in Wyre.
Wyre BC Jubilee Conservative seat candidates Con/UKIP/Lab/BNP
2007 Result Con 501/482 UKIP 465/408 Lab 368/290 Lib Dem 134/107
Apologies if this has been posted before, but Anthony Wells has done a post on the PB/ARS poll, and compared it to the others pollsters. Is interesting
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2321
122 - That’s me banned from the tube then.
OT A nice business success story for a change!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222155/Dragons-Den-inventor-shunned-panels-cash-sells-FIVE-MILLION-gadgets.html
113. Curious. That actually fits in with something I learned a coupla weeks ago.
I visited the Paleolithic cave of Cougnac in the Lot. It’s famous for some beautiful paintings of elk and ibex and two mysterious images of “wounded men”. I’m gonna use these in the book.
http://moulindelatreille.com/images/800/Grottes-de-Cougnac.jpg
Anyway the guide who was showing us around explained that the cavern with the pics was discovered by someone dowsing. He was adamant this was the case.
Intriguing. Not sure how I can fit it in, but… hmm…
121. No, no secret tube station (unless the Central swings to the west immediately south of White City before heading towards Shepherd’s Bush! Hope everything goes OK inside the studio!
127, The wounded man, of which Christ on the Cross is the most modern manifestation.
121 If there is one - I’ve never heard of it.
122/125 Mind bleach time - I once had a boyfriend who told me that he used to have a w4nk on the Tube when he was a teenage apprentice - he waited until everyone else got off on the way to Ealing Broadway.
@129:
Sssh! You’ll be claiming that Jesus was nothing more than an shameless agglomeration of Mithraist myths next!
84 - I’m sure a share of the royalties to anyone who came up with a usable (and used) plot device would suffice
19: The Fisher King being another one as well.
122 You mean Onanism.
130 - Crikey.
120 - the only one of those of which I have local knowledge, I expect to be Con Hold.
@130:
Aroused by the way the tube lady’s voice says “Ealing Broadway”?
‘They are none too keen on BBC journalists and have less trust in senior police officers than the rest’
Sounds sensible enough, so far
(135 TSE has just realised who Plato is in real life.)
130 I once had a boyfriend who told me that he used to have a w4nk on the Tube when he was a teenage apprentice - he waited until everyone else got off on the way to Ealing Broadway.
Was that intentional?
88
My favourite bit:
Meanwhile Roy Hobbs, from Grantham, who has staged a lone vigil since last Monday, was sat cross-legged and huddled over a candle chanting: “Please say Paki, please say Paki, please say Paki.”
120 LS thanks and sorry for winding you up about Landeners but I do find so many of your fellow citizens so tied up in themselves they see nothing around them and I suspect most are unaware of the many lovely things in the metropolis. Anyway it made an afternoon completing CT600 forms go much more quickly.
Penrith has to be one of my favourite towns in the north-west of England and both the retiring and former MPs were local boys to here and well known to my family.
We really need something exciting to happen or we will positively go into remote control at the thought of another 7 months of this.
Did anyone see the documentary last night about the Freemasons and Dan Brown’s silly new book? I assume the new film starting Tom Hanks will be as deadly dull as The Da Vinci Code. Even the blond chappie doing an Opus Dei on himself could not brighten it up.
I rather liked the bit in last night’s documentary about the Americans playing their own bit of non Masonic ritual and managing to shoot some silly sod because one chap pulled a gun with real bullets instead of the one with blanks out of his pocket. Pity they couldnt do that around 300 million more times
137: Either that or ‘Mind the gap’
135 I was shocked, shocked I tell you! He went on to explain the erotic pleasures of strategically placed petrol pump hoses when filling up his car.
His frankness was disarming! *no onanism jokes*
122 Sunil, are bodily functions on the tube an important part of your daily ritual?
127 - If you want something mysterious to explain, why not build the London stone into one of your novels?
135. I can beat that. I once did it at school during a Maths test! Everybody’s heads were down, so no one saw!
(Sh1t! Did I just press send?)
147
Post of the Day!
147 Did you pass?
144. This sounds like the sort of thing John Major’s MPs were into.
In 1949, an experiment was conducted in Maine by the American Society for Psychical Research. Twenty-seven dowsers “failed completely to estimate either the depth or the amount of water to be found in a field free of surface clues to water, whereas a geologist and an engineer successfully predicted the depth at which water would be found in 16 sites in the same field….” (Zusne and Jones 1989: 108; reported in Vogt and Hyman: 1967). There have been a few other controlled tests of dowsing and all produced only chance results (ibid.).
http://www.skepdic.com/dowsing.html
144 - He makes me sound like a paragon of virtue.
Actually, no one can make me sound like a paragon of virtue.
139 - is she “outed”?
152 Jude Law?
re 123 Sandy I think it’ll the far left which prove to be the bigger obstacle today.
153 I am really Jack W
154 - Not even Jude Law.
124 TSE/everyone, does Anthony Wells ever do the election night programmes? I dont recall him on the BBC where they go for the insufferable Curtice man or SKY where they go for the double act of Rallings and Thrasher (imagine growing up being called Thrasher). He seems to talk a great deal of sense so that would probably exclude him from an invitation or does he do the ITV one? I suppose someone has to do ITV.
148. Why thanks!
Er, um, I fancied my maths teacher. I must have been only 12 or 13!
149. I think I passed out - only kidding!
158 - Not too my knowledge. Neither does Mike Smithson IIRC.
I do feel election night programmes would be enhanced by the presence of both of them either individually or as a duo
160 Just make sure that Sunil doesn’t go on them.
156 - Plato, I know Jack’s got a penchant for
skirtskilts, but you can’t fool me!Where are you domiciled?
161 - I’m not sure that ‘go’ is the right preposition …
148 Plato you and Sunil sound like a couple made for one another!!
150 It sounds a bit tame for them.
Everybody knows that tonight’s QT will be just as dull and self-regarding as it always is, right?
160.TSE, shss, we need Mike here on election night.
Well the Royal Mail is on strike, Hattie is closing Parliament early again for the Christmas hols, the country is awaiting a BBC programme being aired tonight with that bloke from the BNP. And its still raining.
We need a political bombshell to liven things up and knock the BNP of the front pages. If Hain&Co are so worried, they could resign enmasse and bring down Brown’s premiership and the government. An early GE should focus minds and cheer us all up.
166 - We do
Don’t let Sunil go down on me
Although I search myself, it’s always someone else I see
I’d just allow a fragment of your life to wander free
But losing everything is like Sunil going down on me…
Um.
Colin Paterson (Colin Paterson, FFS!) just tied Diane Abbott in knots over her desire to ban the BNP from the airwaves.
147 Did it make you go blind?
159 We had a young French mistress called Miss Arnot who in 1972 was wearing black boots up to her knees and skirts up to her thighs. At the parents’ nights the fathers all used to queue up to taste her frogs legs. I didnt read French and Mr MacKay the Latin Master didn’t have quite the same appeal somehow.
169. MC.
I believe the lyrics are “don’t let your son go down on me”…
169 - See what you’ve started Sunil!
164. To quote Han Solo in Star Wars:
I don’t know. What do you think? A princess and a guy like me?
175 - But do you look like a Scruffy looking Nerf Herder?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8317013.stm
“you’ve got to make sure it’s the right sort of change; that you’re keeping the best things, you’re keeping the strong institutions, and you’re changing and amending what needs to be changed”.
“So the state of mind is: don’t start with an abstract philosophy.
“Start with what you have - understand your history, traditions, customs and all the rest of it - and try to achieve your goals using their strengths rather than believing in some utopia written on a blank sheet of paper.”
151 - ah, now I can’t tell you whether anything useful was found as a result of the sudden downward movement of the dowsing rods - only that I saw it happen - and that it happened for the American too.
It could be that they were in it togther and it was an elaborate hoax - but there was only really me around to impress.
167 when are you phoning me?
I wonder what effect it would have on our prosepcts if Sunil was candidate in some tasty seat and Plato his election agent.
Sky reporting protesters have broken into BBC.
162 Sussex
169. Martin C:
Forty w*nks in the lobby
Make mine a G & T….
(sorry!!)
171. Sean F
Urban myth! I actually started wearing glasses aged 8 or 9, a few years before I started.
Anti-Fascist protesters break into BBC. Why do thes people always play into the BNP’s hands.
104. I know *NOTHING* about football Sean so you’ll have to explain that to me!!
So on a day when the BNP appear on Question Time to great controversy, when there is a national post strike, and when the economy is struggling through a terrible recession, I log on to PB.com to see what the heated debate can tell me about these important issues
But it’s less about issues, and more about tissues . Marvellous
Although on a stag do once I did participate in an entertaining discussion about where’s the most unusual place you have ,er, well ask Sunil, and itlooked like a toss-up (ho ho) between on a 747 and on a punt.
But the clear winner was “whilst invigilating an exam”
The mind boggles
180/183. Oh FFS.
Anti-fascist campaingers are such TW*TS.
Did the BBC not see this coming?
139 That’s very funny.
Lefies being idiots? Who would have thought it?
185 - Well it’s my stag do on Saturday, i’ll see if i can ask that question.
Anyone know what time Question Time actually starts - 7.30pm I think?
183. You are assuming they want to harm the BNP electorally. That may well not be the case…BNP success will hopefully bring the crisis of capitalism closer, in their view….
189 - where are you going for it TSE? And have you had any luck househunting yet?
Anti-Fascists adopting Fascist techniques of preventing others speak? Can’t be!
190 - They are filming it at 6.30pm tonight. Normally they film at 8.30
Bit worried I come back to pb.com after a bit of work to discover we are sharing..
MASTURB*TION STORIES.
Eh? It’s not even 5pm yet.
190 22:35 BBC1
196 Sorry - I meant that’s when it’s on air.
192 - It’s being held in Canal Street in Manchester. What could possibly go wrong.
I’ve put down an offer for a house in Styal, Cheshire. Is a bit of a lowball offer, waiting for a reply.
194
I’ll see if I can catch the feed, it may be possible to stream live using VLC to JustinTV but I don’t know what the beeb would do if I did, is it illegal? I know Rupert gets p!ssed off if you do it with football from sky.
185. C’mon.
Who *hasn’t* done it in a 747?
(in the toilet mind)
176. (Sorry missed that one!)
Who’s scruffy looking?
Where’s the strangest place you’ve ever made whoopee?
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/newlywed.asp
FPT - thriller plot.
Dictator of somewhere or other sets up an atrocity. Later wants to restore diplomatic relations with target country of atrocity - so sends two plausible people not actually guilty as sop, expecting acquittal. But one of them is found guilty…
(after that, who knows? target country fragments, dubious elections lead to dictatorship which orders atrocity back in somewhere or other…)
@200:
I find it the best and easiest way to determine whether a business class seat offers sufficient privacy.
Still, it’s all you can do to stop Virgin staff asking if you’d like a hand with that.
200 I once had a fling in the loo on the Dover Priory train - clssy eh?
195. Casino R
It’s all Screaming Eagle’s fault - see post 100!
202 - The hard shoulder of the m62, whilst waiting for the AA
191 - I know but it really depresses me that these morons are the public face of the anti-BNP movement.
182 Plato, ah, just wondering if our paths ever crossed.
Sorry to go off-topic but has anyone else had a postal delivery today?
198 - chuckle - well good luck with the house and good luck with steering a stag night down Canal Street without incident.
185. C’mon. Who *hasn’t* done it in a 747?
(in the toilet mind)
202. Over an altar in a monastery on an island off Cannes, during the film fezzy. The lady is now a good friend of our beloved Prime Minister.
207 Sounds reasonable to me.
210, yep. Apparently delivery staff strike from tomorrow, sorting staff from today.
204. Virgin Stewardesses are *so* tasty I wouldn’t mind them giving me a hand at all.
WHAT?
SKY News showing a whole lot of lefties protesting outside the BBC. I dont know why they dont just shoot them. Would save us a fortune in Social Security payments.
211 - The last stag do, i went to on canal street, was an incident filled night.
Which ended with a handcuffed striper shouting very loudly at me when i asked her
“Would you like to see something swell”
Sky reporter said that the BNP leader had to run for his life in June when confronted by protesters. WTF!!
@216:
Champagne and dinner first, handjobs later.
Basic etiquette.
“Sky reporter said that the BNP leader had to run for his life in June when confronted by protesters. WTF!!”
Slight hyperbole, but that was when he was shoved by them i think.
220
221 - Slight?!?! SLIGHT?!?!?!?
“By 3.30pm, about 150 protesters had gathered outside the main Television Centre reception on Wood Lane, west London, chanting slogans including: “Build a bonfire, build a bonfire, put Nick Griffin on the top, put the Nazis in the middle, and burn the fcuking lot.”
Earlier, at around 1pm, a man claiming to be a BNP supporter was chased into Television Centre reception by a group of demonstrators.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/22/question-time-protest
Talk about nostalgia… this could almost be the Commies and Nazis brawling in the streets of Berlin, ca. 1930!
220. It’s funny, whenever I see “BJ4BW” I can’t help but read it incorrectly and momentarily wince for a second as I imagine Gordon Brown offering blowjobs to all British workers.
WHY do I do that?
223, calm down, Mr. Burdett. Didn’t they throw eggs and perhaps something else?
218.
“You can tell at a glance what a swell night this is for romance
You can hear, dear Mother Nature murmuring low “Let yourself go”… ”
“See the crowd in that church, see the proud parson plopped on his perch.
Get the sweet beat of that organ sealing our doom. ‘Here goes the groom, boom!’”
Brilliant.
OT [is that possible?]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/kyrgyzstan/6407933/Ice-skating-bear-from-Russia-kills-circus-director-in-Kyrgyzstan.html
The URL says it all.
225, because you’re incredibly perverse?
224
“Talk about nostalgia… this could almost be the Commies and Nazis brawling in the streets of Berlin, ca. 1930!”
There’s at least one US economic forecaster suggesting a similar sort of outcome in the US.. as in the Weimar Republic.
Not sure if this is the right site to mention this, but I see that there has been quite a movement towards Ed Miliband on both SPIN and the bookies.
SPIN price now 3-4, equivalent to decimal 6.25 to back him, as opposed to 16.67 a few weeks ago.
225 Me too!!!
@225:
Because you want Gordon to take a “tough long-term decision” on your face?
PHWOAR.
213 - Mariella Frostrup always enjoyed the sight of a stained window I believe?
224. ““Build a bonfire, build a bonfire, put Nick Griffin on the top, put the Nazis in the middle, and burn the fcuking lot.”
See: it seems these people are no less pleasant than the BNP they seek to oppose.
I think a lot of them enjoy hating as much as the BNP do and have similar psychological issues.
So pb has turned into the letters page of Razzle today? Good to know.
Another British soldier killed in Afghanistan:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8321097.stm
226 - Were they killer exploding eggs?
@231:
And the Labour Saviour Merry-Go-Round starts off on another cycle…
160. Can’t imagine Mike would want to be too far from a computer on election night.
182. I started wearing glasses at 17.
224
Should they not be arrested for incitement to murder?
@234:
It wasn’t stained to start with.
God the UAF guy on Sky is as thick as a brick.
234. You might well think that, I couldn’t possibly comment.
225 - You’re not the only one.
There was a discussion on 5 live this afternoon and the BBC spokesperson had the affrontery to suggest that the BBC had to invite the BNP onto QT as they had a duty to be impartial. I dont know how he managed to get the words out with a straight face.
232, Miss Plato, this thread’s made me revise my opinion of you. Had no idea you were so, er, frisky
238, no, but they weren’t white.
233, you force me to post this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSNEC56hIHc
239 Martin C - Yes, amusing isn’t it?
243 - A brick couldnt be that thick.
Sky news to have an interview with Nick Griffin shortly. now in fact
217
Its just the kids waiting for their mums and dads to leave work for the day.
243 - Its Weyman Bennett the idiot SWP guy who the Sky News people think is called Reymond .
Funny.
…and then immediately after you’ve delivered your coup de grace, Gordon begins to sadly and softly weep “no…more…boom…and…bust”
231 - Perhaps Colin Challen is an accurate forecaster
233. F**K OFF Martin!
That’s just too sick to be funny man
253. TSE.
As accurate as this?
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
It’s amazing that all these lefties bleat on about ‘rights’ for ethnic minorities but then use thuggish tactics to stop people saying things they don’t like.
Makes my blood boil and reminds me when I was at college. All the scientific/engineering students were given an afternoon off so we could go to a student union meeting when funds were being voted on. We turned up and voted down proposals to send money to Che Guvara (?). These votes were received with very vocal protests and various machinations to over rule them. These failed, but unfortunately, a couple of days later, there was an emergency union meeting where these votes were overturned because all the scientists/engineers were studying.
Democracy in action, I don’t think so but a standard left wing ploy and one of the reasons I’ve never liked or voted for a left wing party.
232. You dirty girl Plato
Nick Griffin says he wont go in if he cant go in without having to force himself in.
252: and the ‘do nothing tories’…
in that situation I think i would prefer the ‘do nothing’.
I wonder how many of the yobs will actually be charged?
255 - Hopefully yes.
Just watching Sky and Griffin is saying that they won’t fight their way through the demonstrators - they expect police to provide a route in.
What are the UAF demo people thinking of? Griffin is a total martyr judging by this mob lot.
179.Easterross, soon, it might be the weekend or early next week. Got the kids on holiday and family up again. I am tied to the kitchen cooking for the masses. And the weather is lousy! So all my plans for this week have gone belly up.
Inside view of Gordon’s eye test:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5461293/the-genius-of-michael-heath.thtml
I don’t know why anyone is complaining about Griffin on TV.
Everyone is having the time of their lives: the lefties are orgasming with outrage, the anarchists are having a nice punch up, the pious politicians get to show much they hate the BNP, the viewers have the most interesting QT in history, rightwingers get to delight in the discomfort of the left, the Tories can show they are totally non racist, the BBC gets to righteously defend free speech, and the BNP gets tons of publicity.
Result all round. They should have him on every week.
Can the armed police shoot these bunch of Soap dodgers!
224-And not being arrested…
Change Nick Griffin/BNP for black/gay/immigrant/trade unionist/etc and you’d be nicked straight away.
NuLbaour, one law for leftie scum, one for the rest of us.
Who is this Sky News interviewer? Why is she being so sympathetic to the Nazi?
The UAF are idiots but they are a known quantity. Sky News should be doing so much better.
UAF = Unite against Freedom of Speech
265……..they will, they will.
a week and a half until my first press trip abroad. I must admit to really looking forward to St Catherine’s monastery.
I wish I could write a novel. I’ve always wanted to but I have neither the patience or the ideas.
Writing commissioned work has more instant gratification financially and that is what keeps me away from the playstation.
262 - Yes these UAF guys are giving the BNP exactly what they want. The left have not got the first f*cking clue.
“Forsythe, an artist and former musician, said: “I’ve come all the way from East Dulwich because I felt so strongly about this.”
Not all the way from East Dulwich!?
John McDonnell, Labour MP, has told the (TV) unions to pull the plug on tonights QT.
Griffin is being very robust on Sky - TBH I rather glad - the lefty ban-mob are totally OTT.
BECTU [I think] threatening to pull plug on QT broadcast!!!
233/252. Sad thing is the balance of probability suggests that Sarah Brown has actually had to endure that.
“Uh. I’ll be out of the shower in a second love.”
*GORDON EMERGES FROM BATHROOM STARK NAKED WITH BONER*
“Hello Darrling.” *DROPS JAW*
265 - They’re not anarchists they’re Trots.
Have you read Homage to Catalonia yet?
262/272. Very clever move by Griffin.
He knew this was a strong likelihood and planned his reaction accordingly.
265 - It is classic political comedy day.
I struggle to understand why much of the media give commies the veneer of respectability by calling them ‘anti-fascists’.
Mike, Can i apologise for derailing this thread.
274 - Aaaaargh!!!!!!!
@277:
I like that song they did about being Welsh.
Victims of Trafigura display photos of some of their “flu-like symptoms”: http://dechetstoxiques-ci.org/temoignage.html
280 - Now the demo has spilled out of Wood Lane.
276 *MIND BLEACH!!!!!!*
SKY News reporting John MacDonnell the Labour MP trying to persude BBC unions to blackout Question Time. Very democratic. Will the Labour Party never learn that such antics is responsible in part for it losing most of the 1 million voters who support the BNP.
I’d like to take this opportunity to congratulate the “anti-fascist” protestors. They’re actually even less pleasant than the bonk-eyed Aryan über-closeted Commander Griffin. He must be laughing himself silly.
Really, the rise of the BNP and their arrival on programmes like Question Tine, thanks to receiving 1m votes, is Labours final failure.
Look at their record.
An illegal war.
Social breakdown and broken society.
The worst recession since the second world war and the nation facing bankruptcy.
Immigration out of control.
Subserviants to the EU and the US.
Soliders dying in Afghanistan because they haven’t even been given the right kit to do the job with.
Replacing their most succesful leader electorally with a complete psycho - Surely the worst political blunder ever?
Politics and Parliament itself brought to its knees through sleaze and corruption.
And now. The final failure. Labour lose their working class voters, not to the Tories. Not to the Lib-Dems. But to disgusting racist facist’s.
Yep, Labours failure is complete. Now let them slink away in shame for at least 10 years while the Tories at least try and sort out this shambles. Only a decade of self imposed exile and shame induced silence will suffice.
I have a feeling the left will manage to silence Griffin. Thus guaranteeing him maybe half a million more votes.
205.Plato
189.”185 - Well it’s my stag do on Saturday, i’ll see if i can ask that question.”
Don’t let the best man climb a tree whatever you do! My son’t godfather did and had to visit him in hospital on his wedding day!
Don’t know if I should mention it, but it turned out okay cos he got to be best man the second time around.
282. MC.
Badum-tish!
286. “Will the Labour Party never learn that such antics is responsible in part for it losing most of the 1 million voters who support the BNP.”
When has the Labour party ever ‘learnt’ anything?
On that note, I’m going home.
276: I’m sorry sarah..I seem to have had a 0% increase.
Actually I once did at Chester Zoo.
Red Smoke Flare realeased now outside the BBC!
Shame I was actually looking forward to hearing what Griffin had to say tonight.
UAF make Nick Griffin’s bodyguards look like Wittgenstein, by comparison. They should be arrested for being morons. After all “There is no crime worse than stupidity”.
208. Jamess - the job of the Conservative Party over the next few years is to cut the ground from under the BNP with practical measures. Let these silly posturers have their fun - they remain as irrelevant as they ever have been.
I may have missed it but did anyone else hear the Labour MP for Shepherd’s Bush have a pop at the DDG of the BBC on R5?
He was unbelievable - total ranty Hain mode plus a skip-load of self righteousness.
290. Only just seen that!
Plato: you are one horny beast!! Are you single?
(maybe don’t answer that - just change your profile picture on your blog to the real “you” so I can fantasise)
AH GAWD - SHUT UP CASINO
289 - I bet you £25 they won’t.
And I bet you another £25 that the BNP vote peaked at the Euros both in total and in percentage terms.
Nothing says leftie thugs like a red smoke flare.
Hmmm.
Those pictures are not looking for us on the Left. Of course these are the same people who probably chanted “we are Hezbollah”
294 I raise you Milton Garden Centre.
301 - Didn’t the BNP peak at 2004 Euros? and actually dropped votes at the Euros in 2009? It was only the drop in Labours vote that allowed the BNP to get seats?
293. ROFLMAO
304 - Plato, you are one norty girl.
Purely in the interests in pb harmony, i suggest some of come and meet you.
301 tim
New PP odds on tonight’s audience
Over 5.1 million 4/6
4.1 - 4.5 million 4/1
4.5 - 5 million 9/2
3.5 - 4 million 5/1
3 million or Under 6/1
3.1 - 3.5 million 8/1
304.Plato, are you sure that you have not been a card carrying Tory all this time? With that CV, you would fit right in.
307 - Some of come = Some of us come
New rule for leftie protesting. You’re only allowed to demonstrate once you’ve written a song as good as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFbJU0VWhE
310. TSE
Decorum, please!
I bet the placard wielding rent-a-mob have never actually campaigned against the BNP in an election.
Seeing all these lefties acting like fascists, really makes me want to join the BNP just to see their reactions!
307 well, you only live once as they say - at the time I had a particularly imaginative other half and we used to propose amusingly unsexy or risque locations.
It was great fun and I thank my lucky stars that we were never arrested!!
Apart from the usual array of public transport toilets, pr0n dungeons and religious establishments, I can’t think of anywhere particularly strange to have done the sex.
308 - Did you take last nights prices?
Looks like I was right but for the wrong reasons.
The 9/2 band looks the best value.
308. And the odds of nil viewers?
Why do I get a ‘Blogger Content Warning’ when I try and log on PB?
315 - I was once arrested. Much to my chagrin. But they let me off.
Nick Griffin on BBC News 24
@319:
That’d be Plato’s fault. Dirty girl.
Since the BNP share the SWP’s economic policies that the workers should own the means of production etc… This is just a family row between fellow left wingers.
This is why the BNP appeal more to ex Labour supporters than ex Conservatives.
@320:
Was that when you were bothering animals in Chester Zoo?
Labours behaviour over Griffin appearing on Question Time is exactly the reason the BNP are doing well at the moment. People don’t want to be patronised. They want to know politicians are hearing them and listening to their concerns. Lefties are so arrogant and so sure they are right in everything they do, that they haven’t understood its their actions that have driven a good number of people to the BNP. And by kicking up think fuss they just compound their failures.
320
that’s unlucky.
I won’t even ask what you were doing!
320.TSE, I wish we had a market on that one. I would have bet on you getting caught.
324 - No, this was another incident.
325.All the government have to do is resign. That will knock the BBC QT programme and the BNP off the news.
@328:
Ah, the police agreed with your claim that the lionesses “were gagging for it” I take it?
See, this is a conversation that Rod Crosby needs to be involved in. I’d be very surprised if he didn’t share Max Moseley’s swingback peccadilloes.
Griffin is in full sail on this tide of anti-BNP publicity.
I can’t believe that this is getting such blanket coverage/outrage.
Anyone would think that they were about to form the next Weimar Republic.
328 - I’ve just copied and pasted this thread to the manager of the Radisson Hotel Liverpool.
Was that the wrong thing to do?
The BNP vote peaked in 2009.
330 - No, they believed my claim,the fact my trousers were round my ankles, was that I was having a pee and not making the beast with two backs with my then girlfriend.
329. If Only….
Nick Griffin is inside Television Centre according to BBC News 24.
Mehdi Hasan is a complete tool.
@333:
As a percentage share, not as total number of votes, I thought.
333 Even as a joke - that’s plain nasty.
336. Hooray!
I can’t believe I’m cheering on Nick Griffin. But that’s the stupidity of lefties and communists for you.
Nick Clegg now saying Griffin shouldn’t be on QT. The Liberal DEMOCRATS.
FFS.
333/338 - We’re all right. It’s in the Yorkshire and Humber and North West their vote declined, there, but increased elsewhere.
340 SeanT
It’s a bit late for a change of mind!
340. LOL! Thats the Illiberal Demorcrats for you!
I hope Camerons going to come out and say the only way to stop the BNP is to take them on and defeat them in debate? And while he’s at it point out its largely Labours ex working class voters that are voting for them?
338 - Both
@343:
Why would Dave say anything as obviously naive and untrue as that?
I hope it rains very heavily outside TVC.
Who are these numpties?
WHAT DO WE WANT?
FREE SPEECH!
Erm…
342. Clegg’s argument seems to be that all this protesting and thuggery and smoke-bomb throwing shows that the BBC were wrong to invite him.
In other words: lefty hoodlums should be allowed to silence free speech if they are violent enough.
Impressive. Why are the Lib Dems always so utterly utterly crap when the crunch moment comes? When they are really tested, they fold. Every single f*cking time.
340 SeanT. I can believe you are cheering on Nick Griffin.
340 - But the Lib Dems have put up Huhne.
Surely Cleggy isn’t that opportunist….
OMG Hitchens on Sky
340. I couldn’t agree with you more.
@350:
Good Hitchens or Bad Hitchens?
349 I hope Huhne gets all shouty TBH - he is such a hypocrite.
350 - Which one?
352 - Is there a Good Hitchens?
Clegg is a chump, neither Liberal nor Democratic…what does he think the ‘words’ actually mean if not free speech and eqaul representation..?
352 - Mail Eunuch Hitchens
348. I am also cheering on Gordon Brown, for once. At least he actually came right out and said Griffin should be allowed to speak, however loathsome he might be.
Kudos to our usually swithering prime minister. He showed some spine and called it right.
354 - Peter Hitchens
352 Reasonable so far - let’s see how he gets on later.
355. Obviously. One is the finest polemicist of modern times. The other hates literally everyone and writes for the Mail on Sunday.
@355:
Grrr. If you have a problem with Christopher Hitchens, you and I could come to blows, sunshine.
He’s sooooo dreaaaaaaamy…
360 later = tomorrow
Plato, just as a matter of interest, you’re not a South East London borough councillor, are you?
WRT the BNP, I doubt they’ll get anything like 1m votes at the next general election, but they might well get more at the next Euro election.
340, Nick Clegg in being thick as pigshit shocker?
My nipples explode with delight:
http://www.vanityfair.com/images/culture/2007/10/cusl01_hitchens0710.jpg
362 - You have very bad taste.
362 - Given the theme of this thread, when you say
“you and I could come to blows, sunshine”
What does that mean?
347 - The Liberal party attacking free speech. Anti facists threatening violence. The British National Party attacking many British Nationals. I think there needs to be some radical re-branding here.
355 - Get the Hitchens mixed up and die, Heretic.
@367:
Outside, now.
We’ll settle this like men.
361 I thought that they both hated everyone.
The furore just shows how wrong headed the pompous self satisfied BBC invitation was.
I am surmising that the UAF are happy for Griffin to be a martyr. Without the BNP there is no point to a UAF.
They love each other.
371. Or in front of a roaring fire. Like Women in Love.
Marvelous, BBC 24 is doing its best to rerun the battle of cable street
I wish they had David Starkey on QT tonight.
What larks.
Hitchens (P) may be a dick, but he spoke more sense than Clegg.
@372:
Hitchens doesn’t hate everyone at all. He loves being hated. But that’s a very different thing.
356 Huhne published a CiF piece on why he was going to face Griffin - now Clegg says Griffin should be banned.
Labour agree to put up Straw - then Hain, a fellow Cabinet member sys Griffin should be banned.
Neither party seems to have thought through why, if, what they should do.
@378:
Um, that’s to say C-Hitch. I sometimes try to forget P-Hitch exists lest he intrude on my more intimate thoughts about darling Christopher.
So let me get this right.
The LDs agree to send Chris Huehne onto QT and then flip flop when they think it may be going against them,,,,Pathetic
If there is one thing I have learned from PB is that today’s story is tomorrows fish and chip paper. How many disastrous this, that and the other have we seen on PB, How many threads about Gordo leaving or being pushed out etc
This story. like so many, is fish and chip wrapping. What cognisance will it have in January or February?
381, no surprise. Less obvious than the Lisbon nonsense was Clegg’s Trident u-turn. During the leadership contest he said he’d keep it for strategic reasons, now he’s saying he’d axe it because we aren’t in the Cold War. Unlike a year or two ago, when the USSR was poised to invade West Germany, obviously.
@382:
I’ll certainly never think of Plato in the same way again.
Wait, what story were *you* talking about?
382, depends. Some stories matter more than others. This idiocy has given Griffin the perfect build up. A strong BNP would be very bad for Labour electorally, but even worse for the country.
Regarding Clegg wanting to ban the BNP. What is it about these illiberal democrats stifling free speech?
Will these soap dodgers still be around when Griffin tries to leave? That’s when the fireworks might begin.
Re: 356 and others: I haven’t heard what Nick Clegg said but IF he has said that Griffin shouldn’t be on QT, I would be very disappointed.
However we may feel about the man and his party, the fact remains he is an elected representative and while I take OGH’s point and others who have compared this with Le Pen in France in 1984, I’m much less convinced. As I remarked earlier, there are plenty of things Griffin has said which can be thrown back at him.
Of course, he may be like other “conviction” politicians such as Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair who seemed eternally convinced that they were right and everyone else was wrong. I’m not sure that good leadership to be honest though I aprreciate it sounds “strong”.
They have dug up Tony Benn now on Sky.
Revelation
Tony Benn met Oswald Mosely in 1928 when he was 3…..
389. Is he being embarrassing? Poor Tony.
“Re: 356 and others: I haven’t heard what Nick Clegg said but IF he has said that Griffin shouldn’t be on QT, I would be very disappointed.”
He said it on SkyNews. Just saw it. He said Griffin should be allowed on Newsnight though, for “forensic questioning”. And his justification for his wanting to ban Griffin from QT was the brawling from the SWP etc.
Stupid, wrong-headed and pathetic.
Tony Benn now talking sense: “You cannot ban an opinion just because you disagree with it.”
This is the first time I’ve agreed with Tony Benn.
386 paging Martin Day….
391. No he is actually one of the few people talking a lot of sense
ARRSE poll on this subject:
http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=136063/start=0.html
The vast majority think he should appear on QT, a few that he should be jailed immediately.
test
Jeezus! Tony Benn spouting sense. Think first time I have ever agreed with anything he has to say.
394. Thank God. I heart Tony Benn more than a good little Tory shoul do.
Very impressed with Margaret Hodge on BBC News 24.
Her personal journey towards clue is a great credit to her.
384 Saki must have had a Plato in mind when he wrote “Romance at short notice was her speciality”
Jerry Dammers, you dribbling twit. Get back to writing tolerable ska-pop songs.
A good article that shoots full of holes the arguments that Brown and Darling used to attack BoE governor kings recent speech.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/100001466/did-mervyn-king-really-write-his-own-speech/
Quite a number of people are coming to the conclusion that the present banking system cannot be allowed to continue.
399 - agreed. Jerry Dammers looks an absolute mess, mind.
397. Benn is also sound on an EU referendum, again in contradistinction to the loathsome Lib Dems.
Benn may be a nutter, but he is a democratic nutter.
I think we can add Tony Benn to the very short list of Labour folk who understand how to tackle the BNP.
384 “Saki must have had a Plato in mind when he wrote “Romance at short notice was her speciality”
by Ted October 22nd, 2009 at 5:41 pm”
I have my fans
I don’t know why Griffin’s appearance wasn’t kept quiet until the last moment. QT have had last minute guests before.
405, you mean Peter Hain is wrong?!
@ 393. It’s my second time agreeing with Wedgie Benn.
The first time was when he was on QT around the time of Maastricht. He said that we shouldn’t sign up to Maastricht because
1/ it would produce rule by a government we haven’t elected and can’t get rid of (hence was undemocratic) and
2/ it would bind Parliament’s successors (hence would be unconstitutional).
I still have the bruise on my chin caused by my jaw dropping at so much sense coming out of Bennov.
387-Unsurprisingly most poltical violence is perpetrated by groups of the left or those generally perceived as being on the left (eg ETA, IRA). The two most recent polticial murders in Western Europe were both in Holland. Who were the murderers? An Islamic fascist, and a green fascist. Note, not a “right wing fascist”. Morale of the story?
It’s the left that kills.
407 Ratings, dear boy ratings
408 - Peter Hain is always wrong.
Benn’s essential argument that the primary cure for irrationally angry, hate-filled working class folk is to get some middle-class Guardian readers to pompously lecture them till they recant.
Benn is an idiot.
I think Jerry Dammers might be a BNP sleeper agent.
404. Tony Benn is a true democrat. Clegg could learn a thing or two from listening to Benn, as could many other politicians from other parties.
Apparently QT is to be simulcast on Five Live.
If Griffin wanted the sympathy vote - he’s got it big time.
Anyone would this he was Baby P abuser.
SeanT was absolutely right about this.
Griffin on QT = everyone a winner. Even the UAF, assuming the only thing the really want is the opportunity to shout a bit.
417 Ooops - this = think
The more I understand about Griffin, the more I suspect he may be, in part, quite a subtle if not serious politician. He’s not stupid. I reckon he probably believes a lot of what he says, and thinks it is morally correct.
However, another large part of him has surely read and heard too much about the rise of fascist leaders, and he admires their anti-establishment achievements, and therefore he can’t resist dabbling in the same rabble-rousing racist self-martyring demagoguery that brought people like Hitler to power.
A rum cove.
411 spot on , its naff all to do with democracy.. Of course the BBC is impartial.
The most important political story today
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/markurban/2009/10/could_the_long_struggle_betwee.html
Just seen rentamob outside the BBC on Skynews - talk about milking this and ramping it up further.
Lots of running commentary.
Peter Hain has already achieved everything he wanted from Griffin’s QT appearence…he’s being quoted by the media. Puffed up, egotistical, unnaturally brown Mr Hain is the strangest sounding ‘Welshman’ ever…and that’s saying something.
Ed Balls is perhaps the most loathsome Nu Labourite but Peter Hain, if he was more prominent & more articulate isn’t far behind.
The thing I#m most interested to see on QT tonight is if Griffin makes an indisputibly valid point, say on MP’s expenses, will anyone applaud him????
420, interesting that the rabble in this case has been roused by his opponents rather than himself.
I think he’s sly, and clever, but the hanging generals nonsense shows that either his underlings are ill-disciplined cretins or he’s prone to getting carried away with himself. The politicisation of the military point was damned clever.
Margaret Hodge, The minister for child betrayal (Demetrious Panton).
Chris Huhne being staggeringly pompous on Sky.
410. Not sure about ETA being unquestionably on “the left”. There is a long tradition of Basque nationalist thought, underpinning ETA, which is ethnocentric, devoutly Catholic, highly capitalist, and socially conservative.
They just want their own country and are prepared to fight for it.
The rightwingness of Basque nationalism was a faultline in the Spanish Civil War: they fought alongside the Catalonian commies but cordially detested them at the same time.
425, yes. The audience will include some BNP supporters.
427, she’s the genius who slammed the Proms for not being inclusive enough. Added to the list.
Chris Huhne as just said he feels an awesome responsibility to challenge Griffin on tonights QT. OMG I have to choose between THE most loathsome LibDem and a Nazi, give me a minute.
431, um, no she isn’t. She’s on already
Chris Huhne missing the point on Sky
431 Morris Dancer
For all her faults, she gave one of the best interviews on how to tackle the BNP I have heard today.
420 I’ve been watching him for a long time and he’s a very smart operator.
Those who think he’s a skinhead in a suit are indulging in wishful thinking.
He’s saying something very un PC and many WWC voters [plus others] agreed with him.
It’s such a crying shame that disagreeing with the PC body politics results in a total eff off response from voters.
Was Huhne asked whether he disagreed with Clegg that the BNP should not be allowed on QT?
@435:
At a guess, was her argument “lecture the silly little proles till they see the error of their ways?”
430. But how widespread will the applause be?
I can imagine some of the audience and the viewers going “OMG! I’m agreeing with Nick Griffin! Should I applaud?”
Which of course is exactly what Griffin wants!
Well worth two minutes of your time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hodge#Child_abuse_controversy
I just hope Huhne is well turned out. One thing the Nazi’s appreciated was a well pressed uniform.
413 Martin Coxall and 435 wibbler. Well said and well said.
Chris Huhne is obviously going to spend tonight’s Question Time talking about proportional representation.
435, I think they’ve quite a presence in her constituency. I suppose even broken clocks are right twice a day.
There’s a couple of prominent RMT banners in the crowd on Wood Lane.
Yeah, guys, that’s reeeeeealy going to make me think you’re in the right.
And Huhne rambling on about electoral reform. Funnily enough something almost guaranteed to give the BNP seats…
People vote for the BNP beacuse there is no PR in parliament…What a to$$er, though at least he had the guts to show up.
434 - He intimated that PR was a way to stop the BNP.
429 - Peter2′ is, er, only ever correct by coincidence.
Tell you what, Chris Huhne, if democracy is so important to you, how about giving us that referendum on Europe you PROMISED.
Trouser-pressing Twat.
Oh My God.
Chris Huhne is going to be an absolute disaster. Clegg: make the executive decision to get him off there - now.
447.You are joking!
Huhne - ‘we need to listen to the protest vote’
Well that’s your floating voter constituency Mr Huhne.
432 Chris. Eh? Some of you are getting a bit carried away here methinks.
410. Oh F*** off peter2. “It’s the left that kills.” That’s the sort of nonsense I’ve come to expect from you. You probably think gays are more likely to kill too. Idiot.
451 - I wish I were.
429-Basque nationalism (PNV type) is of the “right”. ETA is closely aligned to the successors of Herri Batasuna (think Sinn fein-IRA) (banned several times and remorphs under different names - once even as the Communist Party of the Basque Peoples), which is undoubtedly of the radical left. Whether ETA split off from the conservative PNV and moved leftwards over 40 odd years is another matter…
453. No, it was a joke.
455 *EVERYONE* knows that PR solves all known problems and washes clothes whiter
454 were=was
447. I almost had a “Falling Down” moment when I heard Sarah Teather on R5, just after they discussed the BNP on QT give a waffly answer about AWS by saying that it was better to change the voting system!
If we’d still had the old system for electing MEPs, there’s no way Griffin and his mate would have got elected and therefore we wouldn’t be having this argument if he should be on TV!
Silly girl.
Huhne is now going on about Jews “disappearing”.
Oh dear. Him and Clegg in one afternoon. lol.
424 Ed Balls is perhaps the most loathsome Nu Labourite
Surely this accolade belongs to Yvette Cooper, on the grounds that she has almost certainly fe11ated Ed Balls.
462, because it was the right thing to do.
Benn as usual is wrong and so is anyone agreeing with him.
Griffin is not banned - he is leader of a (barely) legal party and can operate under the law.
But why should the BBC give house room to an odious racist b@stard? Its their TV channel - they do not have to. The justification for it is tenuous at best.
But this is nothing new - in the past the BBC went out of its way to allow airtime to people who planted bombs and also interview Islamic terrorists.
By all means have him contradicted by interview - but what has his odious little party ever done to be taken seriously - but to be treated as equal to a mainstream party is a disgrace. The Euro elections were not ‘proper’ elections at all we were not electing a govt just a useless talking shop. The vote count is meaningless to justify a formulation of any political ‘balance’.
I do not need QT to tell me about the evil BNP and BNP supporters will not be swayed by the flood of attacks on him.
Still whilst it is their TV channel its my living room and I will not be inviting Mr Griffin into it. He does at least share something in common with Eastenders, X-Factor and Strictly Come Dancing.
460 - The fact that the electoral system resulted in 2 BNP MEPs is to the electoral system’s credit. Why should all their voters be disenfranchised?
462: Mind bleach!!!!!
I can’t believe that it’s 4 hrs to go before QT goes on air.
What more hyperbole can the media use to fill the space??
I can imagine Huhne revelling in the cheap applause he’ll get for attacking the BNP, it may well turn out to be the highlight of his career. Unless he can achieve something, anything before May.
One of my lefty relatives, a Stop the War regular, was traumatised on a demo against the Israel/Lebanon war in 06. She was surrounded by a special contingent of the ‘we are all Hezbollah’ crew who started to chant ‘kill the Jews’. No fun being Jewish on these occasions. She says she was petrified and don’t think she’s been on a demonstration since then. But there’s not a peep out of our “anti-fascist” brethren about such outrages. This is why Tim’s rants against sundrey Latvians and Poles cut no ice. If he really cared about anti-Semitism this behaviour would have been exposed.
454-F$$ck you!
Perhaps you feel that victims of the elft had it coming to them so it doesn’t matter? Next you’ll be telling me that Pol Pot was a Tory.
Name me the major terroist groups in Western Europe since WWII? Nearly all would descirbe themselves as of the left.
In a previous thread we discussed how communism and socialism killed far more than fascism ever did, but perhaps as it was all about building a great new society it doesn’t matter.
Have no data on gays and homicide rates.
468 The LibDems are always going on about a ‘fair electoral system’.
According to the Angus Reid poll (3% BNP), that would give the BNP around 20 seats in a parliament of 650.
465. Neil.
Voting for losing candidates is not “being disenfranchised”.
I see everyone is having a jolly old time using Griffin to bash their favourite targets Hune,Hain ETA,PC gone mad, PR etc etc etc.
One thing I don’t get is why people think exposing Griffin as a Nazi, which he is, to a broader audience is likely to make him more popular.
The BNP usually decline pretty quickly when people get to see what they are actually like.
466. Perhaps, but how else to explain her permascowl?
I don’t know what causes Caroline Flint’s scowl, but it must be something else. Despite being part-Brazilian she just doesn’t have the look of the enthusiastic fe11atrix about her.
464, do you support excluding the Green party from QT as well?
456. Here’s a fair appraisal of the history of Basque nationalism:
It begins:
“Basque nationalism, in opposition to Catalonian nationalism or most other European nationalists, is right-wing and not left-wing. Indeed, Basque nationalism was historically very close to the Catholic Church and was founded as a response to the influx of progressive/socialist ideas in the south of the Basque Country from ethnic Spanish workers…”
http://welections.wordpress.com/category/spain/basque-country/
etc etc. I know a fair bit about this cause I’ve been reading endless books about the Basques and ETA cause they feature very heavily in my next thriller. And I have visited the Basque country twice.
ETA are radical, and leftwing, but they know that a lot of their philosophical support (as I say) comes from rightwing Basques (the majority of Basques?) so they don’t overdo the Marxism, and they are certainly not purists.
Indeed the whole thing is fascinatingly complex and you get leftwing Basque Nationalists who hate ETA, and some of the biggest enemies of ETA have been Spanish socialists, etc etc
I’ll stop banging on now.
472 - Yeah, I posted in a hurry - unrepresented - then.
473. I see everyone is having a jolly old time using Griffin to bash their favourite targets
Well, some posters, perhaps, but most seem to be more focused on bashing the bishop.
470 - The Northern Irish Loyalist terror groups have killed as many as any Western European terror group.
Is this the perviest PB thread ever? We’re now onto basques.
478 - I noticed that.
Plato seems more knowledgable on Orificialpetting than Politicalbetting
I’ve no truck with the BNP and find the antis worryingly OTT.
However, after days of coverage, I have a spec of sympathy for BNP voters who feel bashed by the left and don’t believe in multi-culturalism/fear for their offsprings chances at school etc.
*death by stoning awaits Plato*
477. Neil.
Then your question is Why should all their voters be unrepresented? - to which the answer is surely “there aren’t enough of them”.
There is no right to vote for a winning candidate, for reasons that should be obvious.
479. So tim - what do you feel about leftist demos where they chant ‘kill the Jews’? (see my post @ 469)
479 - The political parties attached to Loyalist paramilitary organisations tend to be quite radical.
481 - Trying to get yourself another yellow card?
“The majority of people didn’t vote for the BNP, they are not being represented by the invite tonight”
Dennis Ferando, Nat Assemby Against Racism.
Words fail me.
Fraser’s view
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5462043/griffin-has-achieved-exactly-what-he-hoped-to.thtml
PB Poll - was the BBC right? - new thread
Says it all:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/22/from-no-platform-to-media-circus/
And now it’s time for me to head into town. Planned route Northfields-Hammersmith-Wood Lane-White City-Oxford Circus…
482 Plato
No stoning - you are right i think - the idiots protesting so vehemently are absolutely playing into Griffin’s hands. Anything so opposed by these lefty idiots is in danger of being seen as something which can’t be all bad - so far removed are these liberal-left types from the realities of WWC lives where the BNP vote comes from.
Just to complete the lowering of the tone.
Chaps: if you absolutely had to sleep with either Gordon Brown or Nick Griffin, which would you choose?
Laydeez may answer too, but as Sylvia Plath has already spoken on your behalf, we probably already know the answer.
481 What point are you making? I have no idea.
So to sum up, the proportional voting system that the Lib Dems have fought hard for results in BNP MEPs and the BBC has to give them airtime but the LD Leader Clegg, says they should not because….. what he sees them as undemocratic? FFS this PR system came about as a result of LD deals with fellow euro lovers!
I hope the rest of the panel make that point tonight!
479
Not true, the IRA have killed the most.
Read David McKittrick “Lost Lives” the definitive work on all deaths in NI. Indeed if I remember correctly the IRA have actually killed more catholics than the Loyalists.
Can anyone suggest anywhere in which the BNP might stand a chance of winning a Westminster seat? I’m having a look but can’t find anything.