Is this how UKIP can win Buckingham?
December 4th, 2009
The UKIP General-Secretary responds to Robert Smithson
Occasionally the conventional laws of party politics must be put on hold - Blaenau Gwent, Bethnal Green & Bow and Wyre Forest being recent examples. Unusual scenarios lead to unpredictable outcomes; unique circumstances require mundane notions such as swing to be cast aside. Voters no longer make decisions based upon tribal party loyalty; they examine the candidates and decide who is best for the job. On Thursday evening Robert Smithson offered reasons for believing that UKIP will not take Buckingham; I suggest there is a strong chance:
1. UKIP has never been in a two-horse-race before at Parliamentary level. The ‘wasted vote’ argument has always counted against UKIP; in Buckingham it will work in UKIP’s favour. Even if other parties were to throw their hats into the ring, it is too late. The public and the media already consider this to be a straight fight between Bercow and Farage, and Farage is a fairly well-known name.
2. UKIP can treat Buckingham as an extended by-election campaign. The idea of winning Buckingham is saleable to party members; activists are more motivated about Buckingham than any other seat. Getting activists to Buckingham is far easier than at the Norwich North by-election where UKIP took 11.8% in a difficult seat demographically.
3. This campaign is likely to be quite one-sided. Conservative activists can stay at home or campaign for UKIP if they wish - Bercow will not be an ‘official’ Conservative candidate.
4. Do not compare 2005 to 2010. On a national level, the party is barely recognisable from 5 years ago. UKIP was a party with no financial clout, torn by infighting over Kilroy-Silk, on 1-2% in the polls, had barely 100 PPCs in place and was virtually a single-issue party. No wonder the party’s best results were just 10.4% in Staffordshire South and 9.6% in Boston & Skegness!
Today UKIP is on 6% (Angus Reid, ComRes), has almost 450 PPCs selected, and has already begun putting resources into Buckingham. Remember Respect won Bethnal Green & Bow with a far smaller support base!
5. Would Nigel Farage have given up the UKIP leadership without believing he could win Buckingham? Nigel is an astute political campaigner and knows what he is doing. This campaign is a greater priority to Nigel Farage and UKIP than to Bercow and the Conservatives. Leaving aside Bercow’s unpopularity with his own party, the Conservatives must focus on achieving over 100 gains elsewhere.
I am not guaranteeing that UKIP will win in Buckingham. Although I am not really a ‘betting man’ - I read this site for insight rather than a desire to stake my own money - I’ll take up Robert’s offer as it’s value that I can’t refuse. I’ll take £50 on each bet - 7/2 against Farage in Buckingham (implied probability of just 22.2%), and evens that Bercow won’t get 50% more votes than Farage.
Jonathan Arnott
MessageSpace Advertising
1st
UKIP will get creamed here like everywhere else, single issue bores
NO CHANCE
More chance of me going out with this…
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2rs-rH0BqRg/So1jiA1lxCI/AAAAAAAABnw/5-1MRLhNCok/s400/jessica+ennis.jpg
Interesting guest contribution - I’ll be surprised (and sorry) if it’s right, but thanks for putting the case.
Bercow is becoming even more of a PBC obsession than he is for the large minority within the Tory party that loathe him
i like sarah bercow…
I wouldn’t write UKIP’s chances off entirely, but its a long shot.
6 but i prefer sally bercow!
Interesting, and some fair points there.
In the end it comes down to judgement as to how these different factors will play.
What we do know is that Smithson is right. But which Smithson?
The Lib/Lab pact will see Bercow home. After all, he’s one of us.
Gollum 20,000
Snooty Butler 8,000
Interesting how the ‘Tory Toff’ thing is everywhere. No comedy show is now complete without at least one gag. The one on HIGNFY was very funny.
Who’s the guy in the photo?
the party is barely recognisable from 5 years ago. UKIP [...]was virtually a single-issue party.
And, indeed, it still is.
Jonathan,
I’ll bet you £50 at evens that Farage gets less than 50,000.
And don’t say you’re not a clued up odds man, as you showed in your interview with George Galloway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-RhuqUL4W4
12 excellent, then we can take revenge and start talking about the dreadful oiks in the Labour party - the party of misery, chips and cellulite
Membership free with a £5 King Prawn Ring from Iceland
15 - 10,000 votes, not 50,000
Doesn’t Farage’s campaign suffer by him not being the leader of UKIP any more?
12. Roger, when the polls turn back to the Tories next month it really will be crushing for you won’t it?
Well if I were on the Buckingham electoral roll, I’d vote for Farage.
UKIP has half the members it had in 2005 so it is not the same party.
21 Rustie Lee, Pearson, Farage and that old goat Knapman
so Kilroy-Silk took 3 others with him?!
As a certain Tory voter in my own constituency, I would be tempted to vote Farage if I lived in Buckingham. Why? Well, partly for devilment I suppose. I’d like to see the cosy oligarchic cartel of the parties challenged. I’d like to see someone else in the Commons espousing free-market libertarian politics. I would like to see the anti-Europe argument given greater prominence, although at the moment I am a Eurosceptic who thinks we should stay in the EU and fight from within for change and democracy - at the moment anyway. And I like to see political pluralism. Much as I dislike her politics, I would like to see Caroline Lucas gain a seat and much as I despise him I am happy to see Galloway have a seat.
Matthew Parris on Cameron:
“Nothing would be more counter-productive than to react to class-based attacks by ditching policies, or by going pink in the face and shouting ad hominems (in an upper-class accent) back.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article6945041.ece
PODWAS
12. Exactly, its been turned into a joke… which is where it belongs. the prob is, once it becomes a joke, using it to attack someone isnt going to work.
12 - Yes, you’re right.
What is revealing about Mr Goldsmith’s non-dom status is that he didn’t think it mattered. He told neither his constituency nor Mr Cameron. He e-mailed me indignantly to say that almost all the income from his father’s mighty trust streamed into Britain to be taxed at 40 per cent. He could have dodged it; instead he paid millions. So why, I asked, if you forsook the benefits, did you not cease to be a non-dom before you became a candidate? You must have known it would tarnish, perhaps indelibly, your political brand?
“Hindsight is a wonderful thing,” he replied. “It wasn’t at the forefront of my mind.” His campaign website brims with testimonies that he is Richmond-bred, the local candidate. Yet his money is anything but — his tax status, like that of so many super-rich, is in a holding pattern, circling the world.
Yes Zac, who could possibly have seen that one coming?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article6945156.ece
I personally am increasingly of the opinion that I want Farage to win, though I disagree with most of his politics.
Unfortunately, I don’t think he will. Bercow is just too snug.
It’s a shame because Bercow is an odious man, despite being an adequate Speaker.
I can’t wait for the UKIP activists coming on here to say that they are whamming Bercow sometime around Easter and then disappearing when Bercow gets 70% of the vote.
One for tim:
“Conservatives hide public school past”
“David Cameron and other senior members of the shadow Cabinet are keeping quiet about their public school backgrounds on the official Conservative Party website.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6175316/david-cameron-eton-conservatives.html
FPT 384 PfP
377 “I’m not yet with OGH on Farage winning in Buckingham but the gap is certainly closing.”
Citation please
Private polling
28. You mean when there is swingback to Bercow? NO!!!!!!!
Not sure if someone posted:
“Gordon Brown tries to reassure market with early Whitehall cuts
Gordon Brown has made a last-minute demand for bigger cuts from Whitehall departments amid fears that Alistair Darling will fail to convince the markets that Britain can pay off its record debt.
Mr Darling is to admit next week that plunging tax receipts and a deeper than expected recession have increased borrowing this year beyond the forecast £175 billion”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6945289.ece
A few days ago,I posted a picture of the royal navy’s latest ship with me saying ‘what a marvellous ship’.
I knew it was to good to be true
HMS Whoops! It’s Britain’s new £1bn super-ship,with iPod stations and luxury quarters. One problem… the state-of-the-art missiles don’t work
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1233054/HMS-Dauntless-How-Britains-new-1bn-super-ship-isnt-working-order.html
FPT 393 Roger
“Farage was caught with a Latvian Pole dancer”
Does that make him ‘a slapper’ Seth?
Not him, her!
24 Gabble - You are so transparent with you selective quotations! Try this one, from the same (very good) article:
Brown is a rude individual who is at his most effective when cornered and angry. Class attack is an inherently discourteous and unpleasant way of conducting yourself. Voters and the news media already have an image fixed of the viciousness and spite that he and those around him show to enemies both within and outside their party. Accurately or otherwise, meanwhile, Mr Cameron is thought of as personally agreeable, kind and courteous; and very, very calm.
As brown is questionning camerons’ background and whether it invalidates his right to be PM, id like someone at pmqs to ask ‘given the ever increasing devolution of powers to scotland, does the pm believe his scottish heritage and scottish cabinaete mean he’s unable to apreciate the problems of england, wales and northern ireland?’
25 - How wrong you are.
If Dave continues turns into a figure of fun it’s going to hurt him.
And his Dave Guevara pose today is hilarious.
I want a T shirt.
29,gabble,so are labour
http://www.workingclasstory.com/2009/12/labour-toffs.html
29 - It goes way beyond the Shadow Cabinet, I spotted it 6 months ago, it seems to be policy.
Novel contribution but not especially enlightening or convincing. I’d like to see Bercow lose but I still can’t see it being better than a 5/6-1 shot at best.
12 - Roger. Help me out with this tory toffs thing will you?
you have had a private education (a very expensive private education it seems) and you enjoy a home in a very expensive part of France.
You seem to eat in some rather nice restaurants and mix with other people from similar backgrounds.
Yet I am supposed to believe your kind of toff is ok? its just the tory part that makes it bad?
Labour ministers at private school not a problem / big problem if it is a tory?
41 - You mean besides the obvious one that Roger doesn’t have a policy to vote his mates a £520,000 tax cut?
Funnily enough as I posted 41 I saw 29 from Gabbs.
You do realise that Labour mps are doing that?
Even claimimg to have gone to comprehensives when that school was a grammar when they went.
Thats not hiding thats lying, something that Labour have a lot of form at
Anyway gabs, why dont you want to talk about the banks or the economy or Gordons crap regulation?
32 - so Gordo the clown has changed his mind AGAIN?
42
Tim, only millionares will pay IHT. Labour want the many to pay IHT, not just the millionaires.
43. Anyway gabs, why dont you want to talk about the banks or the economy or Gordons crap regulation?’
Pycychologically speaking it’s:
a. Displacement.
b. Pen1s envy.
c. Both.
You choose.
Where did you go to school Tim?
Roger has been open and honest as have many other posters?
What about you? And how can you afford to spend all your day posting on here? I assume you have a massive private income?
32 Me - Looks like the Treasury are in full panic mode, if that article is to be believed:
In a sign of a last-minute scramble to reassure the markets Downing Street is understood to have asked Whitehall departments to identify much deeper cuts, The Times has learnt. A memo, distributed on Thursday, calls for additional spending reductions in 2013. Treasury and Downing Street officials said that they were unaware of the correspondence. Mervyn King, the Bank of England Governor, has sided with the Conservatives in calling for a more ambitious package of spending cuts to ensure Britain’s creditworthiness.
Seems a bit late to start identifying savings, doesn’t it? A memo on Thursday, with the PBR scheduled for next week. What have they been doing for the past year?
46*psychologically….even
42 - well, apart from the inconvenient fact for you that this is a lie…..
Why do you lie so much?
Do you have no self respect?
man up, your lot have made a dogs ear of it and are going to be out.
Also, friendly word of advice. 20 hours a day posting is going to wreck your health, try and take a break
47 - A state primary, a state middle school, a state comprehensive and a good university.
Ideal really.
42 Tax cuts tend to make better-off people much more better-off than poorer people - even if those people are also helped. So a cut of 1p in the income tax rate will make quite a lot of poor people a few pounds better off - and the super-rich many thousands of pounds better off.
I think people will understand that that’s what happens if you cut taxes.
Labour are playing a zero-sum game. If you make rich people poorer, poor people will become richer. Not true at all.
47 - Mike, please humour me.
Would you mind telling us all how many posts tim has made in his time here
I went to a crap comp. Worst incident = a pupil was stabbed and killed by another pupil.
Good evening all.
Usual UKIP make believe, enough said!
Some great posts from John R in particular on the AGW debate, a couple of threads back, very cogent stuff - well done.
51 - Define good university.
I went to state schools until I got a scholarship to public school then University.
41 Floater
Sally Bercow (née Illman) had a private education (a very expensive private education) but that didn’t stop her.
I’m just now trying to find out whether she was a contemporary of Hannan.
tim you are missing a trick here. Zac is (a) not his first name (Frank) and (b) short for Zacharias.
Gideon and Zacharias. Saturdays by appointment only, eh?
56. The University of East Anglia
56 (cont) Do we take that it wasn’t excellent, world leading even, just good?
We seem to have tiresome “tim” on the rota today.
On thread while I can see Bercow’s weaknesses, particularly his wife’s unfortunate interview, I can’t see how Farage can squeeze the basically loyal Conservative vote and attract Labour/Lib Dem switchers. I recognise that Farage will have a great deal more time & resource to expend than Bercow.
I think Frage will put on a good show and it’s close to whether young Smithson holds his bets as 1.5:1 seems achievable.
56 Oracle
Моско́вский госуда́рственный университе́т и́мени М.В.Ломоно́сова, Moskóvskiy gosudárstvennyy universitét ímeni M. V. Lomonósova
How many members of the Cabinet disclose they were members of extreme left-wing organisations and parties who praised Stalin?
56 - Russell Group.
Mike, If you wish me to cut down on my posts just say so.
Nice to see a political official putting his money where his mouth is. I don’t think that either bet will pay out though.
65 - Not willing to go any further? Given the time you attended, we could have pretty much guessed “Russell Group” from your description of going to university.
Come on, if you want any cred regarding your attacks on certain MP’s intelligence, it may be better if you are honest about your own qualifications.
43. Floater: “…why dont you want to talk about the banks or the economy or Gordons crap regulation?”
Much of Brown’s new found confidence is due to his excellent stewardship of the economy. What the tories would have turned into a full-scale depression, Brown and Darling have managed to fashion into a moderate recession.
Brown’s overriding interest was to do the right thing, even if his credibility had to take a short-term hit. His sense of duty has always outweighed any thoughts of personal gain. History will be very kind to Gordon Brown.
tories don’t understand this - they really don’t know what they’re up against.
Tim must be desperate if he thinks David Cameron looks odd in his Afghanistan trip. Nick Robinson’s dress sense eclipses this.
65. Leeds?
I forgot to say thank you to Mr Arnott
It’s always good to have senior party people contributing to PB.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/6729604/Gordon-Browns-U-turn-on-tax-is-a-sad-pantomime.html
perhaps Gordo should have studied economics?
“The only reason the Treasury is being given the benefit of the doubt for now is that everyone assumes today’s plans are just a pre-election pantomime, with reality to be reimposed soon after the curtain falls next May. Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, will insist that the economy is still too damaged to risk a more severe or immediate fiscal squeeze, but this is to believe Britain still has any choice in the matter.”
68 - the stewardship of the economy so fantastic that the head of the US Federal Reserve essentially called him a moron because of it?
56, 65 interesting to note in connection with climategate that the “University” of east Anglia doesn’t belong to the Rusell Group.
68 Perhaps you need a word with the head of the Fed; he’s going off message rather……
Why does it matter which university Tim went to?
I am interested in how you manage to post so much, Tim, but that is just idle curiosity.
Having staked £250 last night on Mr Farage, this article is music to my ears.
Coren has an amusing but very true article on Sally Bercows confession (I liked “It worked up to a point for Belle de Jour, but by comparison with your antics, she comes out looking like Ann Widdecombe.” and “We were at Oxford at the same time (except that I was actually there)” and ” my numbers are unlikely to be anywhere up near yours (to be honest, I’ve had barely a Cleggful)”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/giles_coren/article6945044.ece
68. History will be kind to Gordo? That’s one of your better ones.
“I continue to believe that the moral aspect of this is totally under-reported. In the bailouts we identified some of the richest people in the world - bank bondholders, bank employees, bank depositors with cash sums in excess of deposit insurance thresholds - and used money raised in taxes on the poor to spare those rich people the consequences of their mistakes. How is that the press is not more outraged by this? And why is there so little outrage that whereas when miners and shipbuilders and car manufacturers argued that there were systemic consequences from the shut-down of their companies - blighting whole regions for a generation - we all (rightly, in my view) said they had to be sacrificed on the altar of the free market, but when it’s bankers and London that’s involved, suddenly systemic effects and the misery of unemployment are rediscovered? It has absolutely, unequivocally, been one rule for the rich and another for the poor; and one rule for London and the South-East and another for Yorkshire, Wales, and Belfast. I think that’s immoral, and I am disappointed that so few journalists seem to be able to see it.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/iainmartin/2009/12/04/what-if-the-banks-hadnt-been-bailed-out/
68. “Much of Brown’s new found confidence is due to his excellent stewardship of the economy. What the tories would have turned into a full-scale depression, Brown and Darling have managed to fashion into a moderate recession.”
The more you say that the stupider you sound. You would do well to ponder what Bernanke has said, and think about just how badly Brown’s FSA was doing it’s job that it gave RBS a clean bill of health just days before it imploded.
Brown’s disastrous changes to banking regulation may be the single worst financial decision ever made in this country.
68 - thanks for the laugh gabs
“best placed”
“0% rise”
“no more boom and bust”
LOOOOL
What year do you think Britain will balance its books gabbs? ie just stopping the debt increasing let alone paying it back?
“things can only get better”
75 - Other people academic qualifications don’t matter a jot to me, but the TimBot standard response to anything he doesn’t like is to question their intelligence / academic qualifications.
Wouldn’t like to find he is a sad little man in a glass house throwing stones to make up for his own failings in life.
Just watched David Cameron on BBC. In just a few words to the troops he set out exactly what his goals were and it made sense.His Interview with Nick Robinson was very clear as well.I know the Tims of this world can see nothing good in Cameron but he leaves Brown standing in the art of communication.
I still think that the Conservative Party will field an Official Conservative candidate in Buckingham = game over and problem solved. Goodbye poisonous little tw*t Bercow and hideous lary wife -job done.
84 - Not going to happen.
82 (correction) anything -> anybody
84
I think it kills some people that Bercow is quite popular with his local party and constituency.
12- I was listening to Marcus Brigstock on the radio earlier and he seemed to be ranting about the tax payers alliance, then the Tories. It was the usual tedious stuff about toffs which is slightly ironic given that Brigstcok is so posh himself, the git. I can’t be bothered checking how to spell his name as he is a smug sanctimonious tedious nihlist upper class class warrior ecopreaching git who is so far up his own rectum that he should be hung by the goolies until the BBC stop paying him my money to rant about how he hates the Tories.
OT- Has anyone commented on the surprising unemployment news from America? Could it be that the receession is really over in the US? Or is it just the eye of the storm before the double dip begins?
80 - and furthermore Browns management of the economy was so brilliant that the very Organisation he set up to regulate the Banks gave RBS a clean bill of health a week before they went bust !And by the way i have still lost out on the 10p tax scandal so don’t anyone on the left talk to me about your lot being for the many and not the few.Bah humbug.
83. Indeed. Cameron has looked very good on the news this evening. He really does look the part and its not hard to imagine him as Prime Minister, rather than PM in waiting.
88
The Now Show is a left wing liberal’s wet dream.
91- Gordon Brown seems to have that problem too, at every Prime Ministers Questions time
84 - Put some money on it. I’m sure plenty of people will offer to take it off you.
88 - Will this be the same Marcus Brigstocke who attended Westbourne House School and King’s School, both lovely independent schools costing about £13k a year.
Bob Ainsworth:
“…Bob Ainsworth said that the Government would not follow Washington’s promise to start pulling out in 2011. “You can’t put a time on it. You’ve got to look at conditions,” he said.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6945447.ece
Quite right. Good to see Cameron agrees.
76 - I’ll see you at a PB drinks do one day and tell you how.
Suffice to say that besides finding this the most intellectually stimulating blog on the internet, it’s also proved amazingly profitable this year in both betting and stock market moves.
To bet against the herd on either you have to know the herd.
I spent a lot of time in 2007/08 on US Republican blogs and betting against the hysteria was very profitable.
In addition I thnk there’s some really top people who post on here, and the narrowing in the polls has made the balance slightly better than the 9 months at Rourkes Drift that preceeded it.
95- probably, the git.
88 Bob, it is spelt Marcus Laughing-Stock…
97- here’s hoping for Labour’s Isandlwana! ZULU!
The chief executive of Corus, Britain’s biggest steelmaker, tore into the Government last night after the company announced it was mothballing most of its Teesside Cast Products (TCP) plant site in the new year with the loss of 1,700 jobs.
Kirby Adams said that Whitehall, while trying to restore Britain’s financial sector to health, had failed to do enough for the manufacturing and construction sectors in which Corus’s customers operated.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/industrials/article6945391.ece
97 - I sense a link between the Ron Paul backers and potential UKIP backers, prepared to put a sink of money into it without any real hope of success.
102 - “sink a lot of money” rather.
100 Tim - “Will you stop chucking those bloody spears at me…”
Excellent piece from Matthew Parris.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article6945041.ece
And he’s quite right. Let Labour play their pathetic class war games and retreat back into their core. They no longer have anything worthwhile to say or to sell. All they have is division and dividing lines.
The Tories meanwhile, are the government in waiting. New Year should be the time to start setting out their manifesto for change.
The contrast between them, a serious party discussing serious issues and the way in which they intend to govern, and Labour, sniping from the sidelines about nonsense and something that millions of people don’t even understand, nevermind care about, will be a delicious contrast.
84. ‘I still think that the Conservative Party will field an Official Conservative candidate.’
No. They won’t.
105 - Interesting all this talk about retreating to the core etc etc etc, I thought it was also now established that Labour has seriously pi$$ed large sections of the WWC (traditional Labour Core vote).
Are they retreating to an even smaller core than ever before? In fact, are there many people who will pick up on all the class warfare and change their vote because of it, or are they just preaching to the 25% or so already saying they will vote Labour come what may. I suppose it will motivate the grass-root activists if nothing else.
The latest CNN poll puts Obama in negative approval territory, 48% to 50%, which is all the more striking since it’s a polll of adults rather than registered or likely voters (who are even less favorable to him these days).
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/04/obama.approval.poll/
Of note, the poll was taken immediately after Obama’s Afghanistan speech. The respondents liked his Afghanistan plan (by a modest margin), including both the surge and the 2011 pullout plan, although were skeptical about the war in general and the advisability of announcing such a date publicly. These results are consistent with my earlier prediction that while Obama may take a hit on the left for his plan, it would play well with the center and the right, who are just happy that he finally made a decision.
However, the bad overall approval numbers show that other factors are a lot more important, and most particularly the economy. That is the elephant in the room, and nothing else will help much until real improvement in unemployment is seen (i.e., back in single digits and improving). And with his numbers undoubtedly worse among registered voters, and even worse among likely 2010 voters, he has a huge amount of work to do as the mid-term elections loom on the horizon.
Bernanke’s attack on Brown is just a diversionary tactic:
“Bernanke faced pointed, sometimes angry, questions from senators, many of whom accused the Fed of regulatory failures that laid the groundwork for last year’s financial meltdown.”
Republican Senator Jim Bunning of Kentucky:
“From monetary policy to regulation, consumer protection, transparency and independence, your time as Fed chairman has been a failure,”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091203/pl_nm/us_usa_fed_bernanke
107- they mean the Earth’s core. Brown was told that there are lots of swing voters in Perth and he is currently trying to dig his way through the Earth to Australia to find them. It’s Mandelson’s plan to keep him out of the way until the GE is over.
109- “From monetary policy to regulation, consumer protection, transparency and independence, your time as Prime Minister has been a failure,”
109. It is as you say a diversion, he’s getting a lot of heat for the mess the Fed made (though Greenspan deserves a great deal of the blame), but he is still fundamentally right about UK banking regulation.
RBS given a clean bill of health days before imploding? Utterly indefensible. A sane government would close down the FSA.
89 - It’s like 1932 all over again, according to my historian dad.
The “double dip”, with this amount of government bubble-reinflating, currency-devaluing, inflation-stoking fake money sloshing around, is inevitable. But nowhere else in the developed world is more vulnerable to that catastrophe than the UK. The USA today is not the USA of yore. It has incomprehensibly enormous quantities of real latent growth available nowadays - as befits a superpower that learnt that lesson the hard way, of course. It did not have that in 1929.
The UK doesn’t have it in 2009.
Simply put, the UK is prefectly screwed but the US (as those job figures you refer to partially indicate) really isn’t.
If Labour wins the next election, then I will be as the rat: I’ll desert this ship and swim (metaphorically) to a country that’s not as misgoverned, politically and socially suicidal and more confident about its future than my beloved Britain has become.
I’ll probably end up in Zimbabwe. Could be worse. At least they’ve come out of recession.
106 SallyC
More than that, I would expect the Party to lay down the law on how its members should behave in the election. Openly assist UKIP and you are out.
Am I right?
96 - are you seriously holding Ainsworth up as some sort of wise military prophet?
If I screwed up, pointing to someone worse may be diversionary, but it doesn’t undermine point that they were, indeed, worse.
Really, if you want to deploy the “Brown is our economic saviour” theme, best not to do it when one of the world’s most senior economists chooses to take a dump on Brown.
The Met Office plans to re-examine 160 years of temperature data after admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made global warming has been shattered by leaked e-mails.
The new analysis of the data will take three years, meaning that the Met Office will not be able to state with absolute confidence the extent of the warming trend until the end of 2012.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6945445.ece
117 (cont) - The Government is attempting to stop the Met Office from carrying out the re-examination, arguing that it would be seized upon by climate change sceptics.
“The Kellner view is that if Cameron has a 10% lead in the polls, he should scrape home. If he has a lead of just 5%, it will be a hung Parliament with Labour probably the largest party, and in a position to do a deal with the Liberal Democrats. If the swing is less than 5%, Labour could probably get in on its own.”
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23778798-can-economy-ride-to-browns-rescue.do
116 - “When one of the world’s most senior economists chooses to take a dump on Brown”
I thought Vince Cable was the Lib Dem Economic Genius, not Mark O*ten
Tim, Mike asked you how you could afford to post on the site all day long day in and day out. The answer was unconvincing. Are you going to answer?
108- That’s not the biggest news of the day, which is of course: ENGLAND - USA….COME ON YOU WHITES!!!!!!!
120
118. “117 (cont) - The Government is attempting to stop the Met Office from carrying out the re-examination, arguing that it would be seized upon by climate change sceptics.”
And blocking it won’t be seized upon?
107 - Oracle, I expect little judgement from you but if you’d like some opinion on why you are wrong, then you could start here.
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/class_war%3F_bring_it_on.html
Of course if Labour play it wrong they will suffer and deserve to suffer.
But the huge misjudgment that George Osborne and David Cameron made in keeping their IHT pledge in a recession while simultaneously coming up with the slogan we’re all in this together is becoming more and more obvious.
David Herdson of this parish, a man whose judgement I do respect has started to realise the mistake that was made, if I read his recent posts correctly.
This is the core of why the herd called this one wrong.
Indeed, Labour says that voters react in disbelief when told Mr Osborne — who despite insisting the measure will not be included in his first Budget — is still clinging to a tax cut policy that will benefit only the richest 2 per cent of the population.
The other focus group finding that Labour consistently mentions is that, when asked to describe Mr Cameron, voters talk of how he was photographed cycling to work while his chauffeur-driven car followed behind with his briefcase.
One party strategist said: “This shows what people are instinctively suspect about Cameron: behind all that husky-hugging stuff lies a standard Tory hypocrite.
“We failed in Crewe with a crap campaign because there was no link between the toff stuff and their policies. Cameron’s background — including Eton — becomes relevant when we can show that for all his Everyman image, he has policies that reward his rich friends and relatives.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6945340.ece
114. If he has the support of the majority [and he does] there would be hell to pay.
122 scarface
Nice to see someone else supporting the USA. It’s a bit sad that like South Africa) there seems to be some ethnic differentiation in choice of sports.
A bit unpleasant to be playing the race card though. The English are very decent people.
125 Tim. That will be an article written by this Tom aldwin:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/11/tom-baldwin.html
125 - Any news on that university / qualifications yet?
Interesting report on Newsnight just now. Apparently Labours manifesto is going to be put to the party to be voted on in February - Which hints quite heavily at a March 25th election.
125 - The Times article is by the ever-impartial Tom Baldwin.
131 LOL. tim will be quoting Heffer next.
132 - There are some depths that I wouldn’t believe any poster here could plumb, and that’s one of them!
I understand that the Hefferlump is (quite voluntarily, and not in any way as a result of being passed over as Deputy Editor of the Mirrorgraph in favour of Ben Brogan) flouncing off to do a sabbatical in Cambridge, from whence he has recently been inexplicably awarded a PhD…
Front Pages so far,
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Newspaper-Front-Pages-On-Saturday-December-5-2009/Media-Gallery/200912115491732?lpos=UK_News_Left_Promo_Region_0&lid=GALLERY_15491732_Newspaper_Front_Pages_On_Saturday%2C_December_5%2C_2009
132 I was being sarcastic. I think those depths have been well and truely plumbed and re-plumbed.
Good news on Heffer. Can’t imagine the amount of turbulence that must beb generated from a Hefferflounce. Off to nunnery with him. Hope it’s a silent order.
128/131/132 -Thats what I mean about reading the herd.
The article rings true, and your response confirms that.
125 - All the Labour focus group crap is just straw clutching flim flam.
Essentially, most intelligent sentient adults (i.e. not Labour’s thickest tribal dole spongers and Guardian reading pseuds) know that Labour have f**ked the country’s economy - and that’s all that really matters next year.
The article rings true, and your response confirms that.
Not mine.
Didn’t read it when I saw the name. I don’t read Heffer, Labour presss releases, the Dandy or knitting patterns either.
**********Johann Hari Warning!**********
He’s on Newsnight Review at the moment.
*******BREAKING NEWS*******
Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito found guilty of Meredith Kercher’s murder.
139/140 A new reader would see an equivalence.
141 - good.
134 - Good Express front page, New Tax Raid on Pensions. Brown the ‘pension raider’ returns.
Know gets, 26 years Sollecito gets 25.
140 lol what a surprise…
140 – The right outcome I think.
Appeals will follow.
144 - Is that a year extra for the parental TV campaign?
Radical move but worth considering.
137 - Talking to people in Crewe around the time of the by-election, it wasn’t just the economy Labour had f##ked in their opinion. In fact at that point, the economy wasn’t the #1 gripe, there were lots of other issues. All the mud thrown at Timpson was an uninteresting side show to most.
Eric Pickles has said Lord Ashcroft would be willing to go on “air” to explain his tax status:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/dec/04/lord-ashcroft-tax-status-pickles
I very much look forward to this!
How on earth can anyone express a view on the verdict of a court case if they were not there to hear the evidence?
Kercher family to be paid 5 million Euros in compensation. Interesting aspect of the Italian system there.
139,Hari looking more and more like billy bunter
140. She put on a good show, but the evidence always seemed pretty compelling.
147 yes another two years wasting the courts time!
25/26 years are big sentences in italy - but i dont think its the same as over here where it would be a minimum tariff within a life sentence…
I hope Meredith’s poor family get some comfort that the sick trio are all in jail for a long time.
136 - My point is merely that I don’t place any credibility in Baldwin’s utterances, any more than I do Gabble’s. Both are partisan hacks. So are any number of Tory supporting journalists.
As it happens I do place credibility in yours, as you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, and I rather enjoy your talent as a superlative wind-up merchant.
I was one of few who cautioned against the assumption of an SNP victory in Glenrothes, and although a member, I remain unconvinced that the Tories can secure a majority next year, so I would rather not be bracketed as part of any ‘herd’ if it’s all the same to you.
Brown’s description of the climate change deniers as ‘flat-earth climate sceptics’ has really caught the eye of the media.
It’s another example of his new found confidence and PR savvy.
152 - because it’s something people do and always have done?
Plus, I’m awesome at guessing this sort of thing; my best one being that man in Hull who killed his girlfriend, which I picked after 4 seconds of his ‘please come home’ interview. Not scentific, but I like a bit of crimey guesswork
151. I suspect theres actually very little for Ashcroft to say. If there was some huge scandal involving Lord Ashcrofts tax arrangements, don’t you think the details would have been leaked by now?
I bet Brown and MandyCampbell have logged into tax depts computer and got Lord Ashcrofts details up on a quiet afternoon in Westminster.
“PR savvy”
Hilarious.
158. Trouble is the public themselves seem to be quite split on the matter. Most peoples feelings towards believing/not believing climate change seem to change with the weather.
160. If Lord Ashcroft has plyed by the rules let us all hear how he has done it!
158 - yes, and it’ll be looked on in the same light as that 50 days to save the world nonsense. Anyway keep trying Gabble. it’ll go down as well as your comments at 68 did!
On J Ross - Brown muddled up Reece Witherspoon with Renee Zellweger when he met her ??
Said she [RW] read really well at a funeral - only it wasn’t her.
WALLY!
156. Your job is adversely affecting your prose style.
158. I never dreamt you had a sense of humour.
163 plyed equals played.
Rule Britannia - Britannia waives the rules!
166 - not quite; he said it in the Commons during PMQs, I think.
163 - So an innocent person has to prove their innocence? Interesting concept.
158 - Government trying to stop the Met Office re-examining 160 years of temperature data
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6945445.ece
162 - Well and to lump anybody who doesn’t agree with Brown particular view / vision on this matter as some sort of moron “flat-earth”-esque denier is one way particular good way of alienating a large group of people. People don’t like to be called morons or mocked.
If the science of climate change, the extent, the reasons, the solutions, the adjustments required etc were done, dusted, settled, the world wouldn’t be spending billions of dollars researching the issue.
156 - Despite the media wankfest they have been very dignified.
You have to hand it to the SUN, that is another cracking front page.
165,sally you mean this,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232640/Embarrassment-Brown-mistakes-Reese-Witherspoon-Renee-Zellweger-visits-Parliament.html
I’d just like to reiterate my point, from earlier today, that
this afternoon I saw Simon Heffer at Piccadilly Circus tube
Who else among PBers can say as much? Few, I’ll be bound.
171 - You are missing the main point.
Clegg Cameron and Brown all agree on this.
176 - was he eating the Tube, or complaining that it wasn’t Thatcherite enough?
172 - Agree…
I’ve found the reporting of Amanda Knox, it’s focus on her looks, and in particular this grotesque “Foxy Knoxy” business really quite disturbing, and I count myself fairly cynical where the antics of the press are concerned.
170. I see little point in re-examining the temperature record of the last 160 years. Does anybody seriously dispute that the world has got warmer since 1850? Of course not. The Little Ice Age ended around 1850, so its inevitable that it will have got warmer since then.
What is in dispute is whether this trend has been enhanced in the last 50 years by AGW and whether in the past decade the trend has stopped, maybe even revered a bit. Re-examining the record won’t be able to answer any of these questions. It will just show what we already know.
175 - I imagine he’s quite hard to miss.
“In childhood as in adult life, females are a civilising influence on males. Without them, boys end up a neurotic mess.
Which doesn’t say much for all of Cameron’s fagging, punting, tuck-shop-noshing top Tories – all educated without a girl in sight.”
http://tinyurl.com/yznrltb
120: Screaming E - Is that Mark O’ten - the Irish Decimalist?
174 Bizzarely he must have repeaated the mistake since he congratulated her on something Renee did when he met her.
176 - No I haven’t. I was referring to the use of particular language. The fact the 3 leaders agree on it, doesn’t mean that Cameron and Clegg go around effectively shouting abuse at those that don’t share their own view on this matter.
Would Old Tone ever called a large section of the public this, I doubt it very much. You know he would have had some diplomatic way of saying the science is indicating x or y, thus the sensible thing is to consider the options, blah blah blah.
179 - but ‘Foxy Knoxy’ was a self-imposed nickname. And since the case revolved around her essentially being dominant over her boyfriend through the use of sex - and because the murder itself was suspected of being sex game-orientated - is it any wonder that happened? I’m not saying it’s exactly PG stuff or that the press haven’t egged it on - but the circumstances of the case almost cried out for it.
173. The Sun’s front pages have really improved under the new editor.
182 - No, It’s Mark O*ten, the honourable member for Winchester, whose surname sets of the Spam trap for some reason.
182 scarpia
170 - “The Government is attempting to stop the Met Office from carrying out the re-examination, arguing that it would be seized upon by climate change sceptics.”
That tells you all you need to know about Brown et al and AGW
178 Though I am symapthic to the rejection of the ‘tabloid’ take, I think [?] the Foxy Knowy bit came from her own website/Facebook page or some such - along with the bit with her and a machine gun.
183. Oracle
What was it Cameron called people who use Twitter?
183 - Smart people realise that the only danger in this is for Camerons Conservatives.
Is it just me or is Obama extremely rude on the world stage,
Obama switches climate change visit to end of summit
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8396591.stm
I’m not coming, no I am coming, erhh well I am coming but at a different time and only for a day….What a nightmare of a party guest!
190. Tim, what does Jeremy Corbyn think about Climate Change? Is he an extreme sceptic like his brother Piers Corbyn?
176 I don’t think its a cross party policy to smear everyone who disagrees with them. Just Brown.
189 - I think most people realised that was what you call a joke. Bit like you MacGabble, Daddy Hannan schooling you the other night on Newsnight was extremely amusing. Gordo comments clearly aren’t, they are a direct challenge to those that don’t follow his view (very Gordo).
However, again I doubt Tony would have done it.
176 Garbage, tim. Clegg and Cameron may believe in AGW but that isn’t the same thing as calling those who hold an opposing view idiots.
The fact that the Met. Office is embarking on a three year review of all the AGW evidence (front page of Times tomorrow) is a game changer; if they are on one side of the argument, and a load of self-confessed fraudsters at Norwich Poly plus Gordon Brown on the other, I know where the clever money is.
190 - Come on Tim, still waiting on that university and qualifications.
185. If Cameron fails to reach a majority at the GE, The Sun will certainly be able to claim much of the credit.
Now, why does gabble use full links on some occasions, but shortened url’s on others?
186, maybe OGH needs to ‘dump’ his spam filters…
197. Not going to happen Gab’s. Cams gonna get a clear majority, don’t you worry you head about that.
198 The long term solution to such questions is to stop reading his posts.
199 - isn’t it because when he’s linking to some piece of turd article which is going to be blatantly biased or written by a 9-year-old version of himself, he’ll use TinyURL so people aren’t immeditately put off by the idiocy of the link?
Charles Moore on class war:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/charlesmoore/6727994/Why-Lord-Snooty-is-the-ideal-role-model-for-David-Cameron.html
187 - Oldnat - ta. On thread, sometime I’ll regale this board with the story of my encounter with the UKIP National Executive in the Sherlock Holmes pub (Whitehall). But it’s late and I have to be up ealry tomorrow to catch a E*r*star to Paris. However stabbing colleagues in the back didn’t come into it - more like the front!
115. Gin,
Really enjoyed your comment, brilliant summary and how true!
A good insight piece from Janice Turner of the Times which reflects on the main reason why Zac is likely to fail in Richmond Park:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article6945156.ece
175. I’ve seen Heffer in the supermarket a couple of times. Two different supermarkets in different parts of the country.
Prize fighter final an absolute classic.
Hope a few of you followed me in on Gavin Rees.
207 He’s stalking you…
206. That reads like airhead-penned drivel to me. What do you think is so special about it?
205. Thanks Wayne.
207. Does the temperature cool by about 50c when you get near him?
207 - Probably searching for stockists of corduroy trousers in primary colours, as sported during his near legendary TV appearance a few years back where he managed to turn a group of mildly Eurosceptic members of the public into Europhiles while trying to achieve the opposite?
PBR will be ‘less ambitious’ than Budget
Alistair Darling will risk the fury of the ratings agencies and the Bank of England Governor with a pre-Budget report which by some measures will be less ambitious than those in the Budget.
The Chancellor will not attempt to cut his borrowing target for four years from now, despite widespread calls to bring the deficit down faster.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/6728716/PBR-will-be-less-ambitious-than-Budget.html
There is some seriously differing stories being run by the papers on the PBR. Wonder if Squeaky has got the latest draft from the Treasury mole for extra homework?
The Sun splash is fun but it is tempting fate too much for my liking as a long-time England sports fan!
The Scottish front page uses the same acronym as a secondary headline but tops it with ‘Cocky English think it’s going to be EASY’
175.
Two weeks ago I stood next to Portillo, while waiting to cross the road. I have to say he is one of the smartest dressed men I have seen! and he must dye his hair because it was Brown, no grey!
More Osborne incompetence:
“The IFS says that the Tory 1997 tax and benefit regime, with the usual upratings, would by 2008 have propelled 2.1 million more children into poverty. Nothing in Tory policy then or now suggests any policy to avoid this”
“Cause for alarm is George Osborne’s “We’re all in this together” conference speech that pledged to cut tax credits for families on £50,000 in order to save £400m a year. That sent out shockwaves: to raise that much would mean cutting families far lower down the scale. Sure enough, in answer to a parliamentary question this week, the treasury said cutting out those on £50,000 would only raise £45m. If Osborne means to raise £400m he will have to cut credits for families with joint incomes of £31,000 – which is below the household median, a hard blow. His slip of the calculator accords with the tone of many in his party who suggest tax credits would wither away.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/04/revenge-luxury-poor-fairness-tories
216 - Polly Toynbee, hmmm, better believe the facts and figures in that article about as much as a Daily Rant ones on illegal immigrants.
216 - Thanks for that Gabble. I always turn to Polly Toynbee when I want neutral comment on a Tory proposal.
Pray, what does Kevin Maguire think of it?
She got through 27 secretaries in TWO years and reduced staff to tears every day. Meet Labour’s ambassador for women at work
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1233305/Glenda-Stone-boss-hell-Labours-ambassador-women-work.html#ixzz0YldKRgNy
217 - you should probably disguise links that are clearly Polly articles from now on as well.
213 You’ve always got to add in false reports as part of Labour’s expectation management. No matter how bad the news is, ‘not as bad as it was feared’ works. Though not always.
210. runnymede - yes the first few paragraphs are shallow but the second half of the article is not.
216 - At the next election, I advise Polly to put on a nosepeg and vote tory.
220 - Not sure how he would manage that, even with a tinyurl it would still be bloody obvious who wrote it!
207.
Spaceship crashed …. Perhaps he was lost.. Well he does live on a different planet to the rest of us, judging by the tripe he writes !
214. Newsnight said the PBR is going to be all about dividing lines. Taxes against the rich. Vast areas of public spending safe guarded. And an arugement made for continuing borrowing for jobs and investment. In other words, same old, same old and pretty much back to Labour investment Vs Tory cuts.
226 Then it wpuld be time for Standard and Poor to make their intentions clear.
216. thanks, gabble. that’s a longish url. you should check out the tinyurl.com website. oh, hang on…
the link is to polly and well worth following for the comments. for instance:
Polly,
A whistleblower has leaked a draft of your next article.
“Labour’s policy of compulsory medical experiments on children is flawed, but the Tories would be worse.”
Can’t wait to see the final version.
226 - If that is true, Gordo has managed to bully boy Darling. The quesion is has Mandy given up though? As it was clear he was trying to get Gordo to change tack from the investment vs cuts line a little while back, to our nice cuts vs nasty Tory cuts.
226 Excellent. Death of Labour if they do.
223. My adfice for Polly would be to di us all a favour an put herself into exile in Tuscany for the Cameron Years!
Oh they also said that the little bit of debt reduction Labour have pledged for 2010 (is it about 2%?) will be reduced to 0% with a promise to go “further and deeper” in 2011 and the years there after.
Is this what MacGabble meant about PR savvy?
People who doubt that human activity contributes to global warming are “flat-earthers” and “anti-science”, Gordon Brown has said.
The Prime Minister launched an outspoken attack on climate-change sceptics amid growing signs of public doubts about the scientific and political consensus on the environment.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6729833/Gordon-Brown-climate-change-sceptics-are-flat-earthers.html
226. GIN: “And an arugement made for continuing borrowing for jobs and investment. In other words, same old, same old…”
That’ll be:
same old 1997
same old 2001
same old 2005
same old…
1950 World Cup - USA 1 England 0
231. Khaooomooooreeeosnfhgtiurlfmcwq should offer Polly a peerage
226. If that’s true then we will all be in the phrase of the US Marines FUBAR (F***** Up Beyond All Recognition!)
234 Except the world has changed.
You ruined it.
235 - Baroness Toynbee of Tuscany does have a nice ring to it.
So does Lord Heffer of Moonbatville.
234. Very true Gab’s. Its been said a lot on here, but its still true. Labour are stuck in 1997. They don’t seem to realise the world has moved on. This is one of the biggest reasons why defeat in 2010 is pretty much inevitable. The only thing we don’t know is how bad that defeat will be.
Floater you are wasting your time asking tag-team-tim for a personal profile as they tag team members change so often
On this thread the tag team member changed as we now have the one who puts references to his quotes and is a little more grammatical.
This kind of comment really annoys me.
Amir Khan: ‘I’d be a superstar if I was white’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/boxing/article6945167.ece
Hyped beyond belief as soon as he won Olympics, promoted by one of the biggest people going, trained by the worlds best coach, ramped like hell on Sky, and all after a dodgy start to the pros. He has had one really top notch fight against an aging former superstar.
He has even taken to training / living in the US, because he said the superstar lifestyle and constant attention was getting in the way of his boxing.
Maybe he should learn from his stablemate Manny Pacquiao how to become a superstar, before complaining about his skin colour.
The Independent
“Leading article: This week has shown that the election is far from over”
“…Mr Brown is showing signs of a striking fight-back in ways that raise profound questions about Mr Cameron and the party he leads.”
“The contrast between Mr Brown’s major speech this week and Mr Cameron’s chosen theme was also marked. While Mr Brown outlined a strategy for Afghanistan, one that is flawed but could command support in the run-up to the election, Mr Cameron highlighted some poorly researched clichés about the impact on daily life of health and safety regulations. Cameron seems to have gone out of his way to please his new allies in the right-wing press with the development of a crude anti-state message, backed by glib assumptions that do not stand up to scrutiny. This is a foolish and wrong-headed strategy to pursue.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-this-week-has-shown-that-the-election-is-far-from-over-1834656.html
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/12/distortions-lies-and-muggings-by-fed.html … and by the Bank of England.
242. What else would the Independent say?
213.I think some in the PLP are desperately hoping for a political PBR, the rest of us have got to hope that Darling will attempt to try and address the problems with our economy instead of those of the government and the Labour party. Will he do the right thing by us or his party?
242 heck! Is The Inde not going to come out for Cameron?
Does that mean we have lost The Mirror too?
245. NO!
241 - Being fair to Amir Khan, I’ve heard him being goaded to say this in countless interviews and he usually dodges it.
I don’t think it is something he believes I think he will have been misquoted.
The BBC are the worst, they always try take him up this path when the real reason he isn’t a superstar is that he never fights on terrestrial telly.
It takes people boxing on Sky much longer to get recognition but instead they get shedloads of cash. It’s their choice!
If he wins enough big fights, he’ll get the pay per view viewers and the acclaim. Maybe then people will stop asking him these leading questions.
“some poorly researched clichés”
Interesting, didn’t R4 have a head teacher on who admitted that safety specs were required to play conkers at his school…
I think example such as my partner not being able to change a light bulb in an old persons home that she is supposed to be caring for is far harder hitting. The official policy is to leave an old frail person be in the dark all night, rather than change the bulb.
The Tories have….
LOST THE INDIE?
and theres some DOUBT OVER THE MIRROR?
and POLLY TOYNBEE’S WOBBLING TOO?
Noooooo!
It’s all over.
242.Oh dear, obviously penned before the Cameron trip to Afghanistan.
248 - You may be right.
I remember the BBC having on a young black swimmer who by all accounts is a star in the making. All they asked him for a good 15 mins about was what it was like to be black and a swimmer? did he suffer discrimination or abuse? what did other black kids think of him? (and the worst one) shouldn’t he be playing football or into athletics like many other black kids?
The lad was very pleasant and tried to tell them that the fact he was black didn’t matter one jot and never been a problem. The questioning continued unabated.
OMG!
Cameron with Henman punch AND sticking out his tongue?!? Soldier directly behind him, clearly unimpressed.
Has The Sun switched sides, again?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2759345/David-Camerons-election-vow-on-Afghanistan.html
251. As long as none of their readers watch the BBC, they’ll get away with it. Oh…
253 - If you are that easily shocked MacGabble, I advise you never go to the Universal Studios Halloween Horror night, you might come to an unfortunate early end!
242 - I think from reading the herd on here we can sense two things.
1.Tories on here are increasingly uncomfortable with Camerons positioning.
This is a carry over from their naive view that Cameron and Hagues stance on Europe, remember the testosterone fuelled “We will not let matters rest”, err, yes we will.
And the same ageing coalition of golf club bores and angry white van men has now fastened upon climate change as a means of reasserting their credentials as rebels, carriers of the torch, irreconcilable irridentists. They will fight and they will be right.
2.Tories don’t like being laughed at.
253.Cameron and Henman punch? Gabble, look again, he is pointing his thumb at the troops behind him.
255 (cont) And it hardly compares to ones like this,
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/27/article-0-03308A89000005DC-78_224×340.jpg
Truly terrifying!
ones like this -> ones like these.
253 - That is a truly great photograph.
If anyone can tell me what he was doing there, I’ll buy them a really good dinner, because it really is beyond me.
Just wondering, Cameron seems to have got out and actually talked to local Afghan people in a bazaar. Does Gordo ever leave the base?
Very telling in the PR battle, Cameron has pics with locals, injured troops, troops on the plane, full house on the PR front. All we get from Gordo visits are closely cropped photos with a few soldiers and maybe a tank or two in the background.
256. ChristinaD: “…look again, he is pointing his thumb at the troops behind him.”
lol. Desperate stuff.
His thumb is every bit as evident as his credibility.
There is Toenails in a flack jacket getting in the way of Cameron in a jumper.
Brave people, those troughers for truth.
260 (cont) Oh or him looking a complete t##t playing with a machine gun,
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/07/21/article-0-0202FE1600000578-912_468×562.jpg
I know which PR photo person I would employ!
256 - err, as thats not visible on the photo I presume thats part of the build up to Davemas.
261.Gabble, go ahead, try it, lift your arm up and point your thumb backwards. That is what Cameron did while being photographed with them in Afghanistan.
259.tim, I look forward to that really good dinner then?
They all have some sort of wrist band on.
tim, go to bed. You’ve had 4 hours sleep in the last 40-odd…your critical faculties are shot to pieces, man. Cameron looking Prime Ministerial in Afghanistan, surveying his political inheritence, has clearly got you rattled - but the Bunker have given you nothing to work with. Retire for the night…they might have stumbled onto something in the morning (if you have a particularly long lie-in, that is).
265. ChristinaD
I’ve looked again and I have never seen a less visible thumb.
I think he’s making sure the camera picks up his make poverty history band.
265 - I didn’t mean at lunchtime, baby.
Seriously, have you made that story up or is some blog doing a “Dave may look like a wanker but it’s not what you think” story”?
266 - I hope they aren’t “Help for Heroes” wrist-bands or some such worthy charity. Imagine if Gabble and Tim have been mocking Cameron for what they think is a strange pose, when actually all he is doing is a PR shot for an extremely worthy cause!
266 They have all gone for the full weekend at Glastonbury…
271 (cont) Sure that won’t matter to the TimBot though, I mean managed to carry on posting on PB.com during a 2 minute silence for Armistice Day.
I mean managed -> I mean he managed
The soldier directly behind Cameron has that ‘WTF’ face on and the rest are just laughing at him.
But, to be positive, I think (hope) this marks the point at which he stops undermining the efforts of the frontline and their support network back home.
266 - An Inheritance Tax wrist band, a work of genius.
Labour and Lib Dem canvassers must wear an IHT wrist band.
Pudsey the bear could be involved.
“Dave and George were taken from their parents at an early age, now they need your help, let them get back from their parents what they missed out on, half a million quid”
271 - Gabbles should stop talking down Dave and our brave soldiers armbands. He’s aiding Al-Qaeda.
Just wondering, when is Gordo going to get on board with “Tickets for the Troops”?
275 And what exactly would you know about the military Gabble?
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, the wristbands, they are for “Tickets for the Troops”. Hope you fell good now MacGabble and Tim!
Some selective quoting time I feel…
Lance Bombardier Lachlan Quinn, 25, quizzed Mr Cameron on his forces policies. He said: “He’s got good ideas and seems a nice guy. It’s good of him to come out - but now we want him to deliver.”
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2759345/David-Camerons-election-vow-on-Afghanistan.html#ixzz0YlrZfuIv
Unlike some politicians, he finds it easy to relate to soldiers. He said: “The more you talk to them, the more you understand their hopes and fears.”
Also picked this up…
Mr Cameron vowed to double troops’ operational bonuses to £4,800 for each six-month tour of duty.
On soldiers’ bonuses, he explained: “The pay they get for what they do is relatively low. We want to do more to make sure our forces have a better deal.
“I’ll make that a priority of my first budget. It will happen in our first 50 days.”
All apparently paid for by a 25% cut in admin costs.
280 - Sorry correction,
They are for “Support the Coldstream Guard”.
282 (cont) Should explain my mistake, they were advertised on the Tickets for the Troops Facebook page, but actually the link takes you through to ColdStream Guard campaign.
http://www.shinycapstar.com/images/FreeWristbandCalendar.jpg
The Indy’s observations on this week’s political developments:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-this-week-has-shown-that-the-election-is-far-from-over-1834656.html
280 - and don’t forget our very own Nick Palmer MP.
283 (correction correction) Should say just to be clear, looks extremely like it is….
Excuse the mistake, not a lot of sleep in the past week.
People always study the faces of soldiers very carefully when they are in the proximity of politicians.
I can’t believe The Sun have published that photo. I’d be surprised if it lasted the night.
David Roe’s gone very quiet…hmmm
270.Nope, I think that by the look on Cameron’s face a joke is being shared. He just stuck his arm up and pointed backwards at the troops.
279.c, this latest wheeze of trying to say that Cameron and Clegg are undermining the troops is another negative and pathetic attempt by Labour strategists to try and turn the story away from this government’s incompetence.
Lets not, on this World Cup day, forget the wristband performances that are in shallow Daves past.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmVhB01-nIk
I’ll buy them a really good dinner, because it really is beyond me.
by tim December 5th, 2009 at 12:30 am
Which tag team member is making that offer. The morning one, the afternoon one or the evening one. And who has the money for it - that is the kitty for the Mars bars?
And what do you call a ‘really good dinner’ - a union canteen snack with Wheelan at lunchtime or a drive through BigMac at five pm?
287 - Carry on mocking MacGabble. If it is as I suspect, you are mocking a photo to campaign to raise money for our troops (the question should also be asked if why did they need such a campaign on money raising).
250.
,,Der Krieg ist verloren” - sorry, just watched Downfall on Film4!
287 - Well the picture is in the paper. I’d be confident it is staying up.
I also really don’t think this is half as bad a pic as you are making out!
I’ve gone quiet ‘cos I’m working. I do have a lot to do
BTW, MacGabble are you on board with the “Tickets for the Troops”, or are you unable to put your political differences aside for this worthy and long overdue scheme?
287.
‘I do have a lot to do’
Unlike Gabble. Or tim.
SPADS?
Makes you proud when you read this, not,
WHY, the campaign?
The wristband awareness campaign was created to generate support for all Coldstream Guards soldiers (and attached personnel) and their families. Much thought was placed in the design of the wristband and as an English Regiment, it was decided that the design of the wristband would be unique based on the St Georges Cross (wristband image shown below).
WHAT, are the aims?
The wristband awareness campaign has been created with the following aims:
1. To assist the families of those members of the Battalion who are Killed In Action (support with funeral costs beyond what support the Army provides).
2. To support those injured on operations and their families (support with costs incurred to make alterations to houses if needed etc).
3. Support to families of those currently deployed (provide activities for families, wives and children to help them cope with separation).
4. Support to our soldiers returning from operations; facilitate their transition to normal life once more (money to be spent on adventure training & team building activities).
http://www.shinycapstar.com/opherrick10wristbands.htm
294. Oracle: “…are you on board with the “Tickets for the Troops”, or are you unable to put your political differences aside…”
Is it political?
297 - Simple question MacGabble.
297 - Have a look at the clip at 290 and tell me about Dave’s wristband sincerity.
He’s funny, the public are just starting to discover that.
Well seems thanks to Tim and MacGabble the campaign will be getting a few more £’s coming there way. Thanks guys for pointing this out, I probably never would have know about it otherwise.
Supporting the troops:
“Family of dead soldier Serjeant Paul McAleese blame Gordon Brown”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6838063.ece
“Mother makes troops equipment plea at soldier son’s inquest”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6716829.ece
“Soldier killed on patrol was awaiting new armour”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6921012.ece
etc.etc.etc…
This has consistently underfunded our troops, demanded too much and left them hanging out to dry. We find out this week that they were only ready 1 day before the Iraq invasion. Gordon Brown & Tony Blair should hang their heads themselves in shame for what they have done.
I still remember meeting someone who had been on one of the ships hit in the South Atlantic. He suffered terrible injuries. My brother got to know him on deployment to the South Atlantic during the war. They do a job that most of us would be too terrified to do. They should get everything they need and the civil servants should go without whatever is necessary to make that happen. Not have hundreds of millions spent on their offices.
This government’s treatment of the military is a disgrace. It is one of the reasons I loathe them so.
299 - It’s pretty funny, but you must admit you’ve made a t1t out of youself over the past 12 hours.
280 ‘Hope you fell good now MacGabble and Tim!’
I’m sure they do. The plight of British soldiers is of no interest to them whatsoever.
Otherwise another comedy evening on pb.com, with the timbot spouting even more nonsense about his background, and means of earning a living. He’s had more careers than Eric Pickles has had hot dinners.
I reckon the fabrication count is directly related to his time clocked on here; nigh on 37 hours since 7AM on Thursday . What a loser.
302 - Don’t hold your breath on that one, Majority Man once famously argued with the Oxford English Dictionary for over 24hrs and still couldn’t admit he was a) wrong and b) making a complete tit of himself!
Tim
Please answer the simple questions above.
And remember Gordon Brown wants the many to pay IHT and not only the rich few.
Tim
You are not working class, in fact I doubt you have ever done a proper days work in your entire life. I own my very own private corporation, and have done since shortly after completing my A-levels. I am one of the very few BRITISH manufacturers still in the black and making a fair return on my capital. This I have managed ONLY by my own hard graft and by gradually sacking my entire employed workforce. Which 12 years ago was 12 hard working and highly committed young people, that I had spent much valuable time and effort training myself. Your constant lies and disinformation are a highly annoying insult to my intelligence.
I was educated at the worst example of state education 1970’s North-East Kent had to offer. Charterhouse Dumping Ground, Orpington, to be precise. Yet I obtained a record level of O and A levels, solely by my own personal efforts. Certainly not by paying any attention to my utterly useless, and usually drunk NUS indoctrinated school masters.
I do not generally lower myself to the level of personal abuse, but in your case I will make an exception. You are very clearly a complete wanker, and a very nasty one at that. In my most well experienced and honest opinion, you don’t care about ordinary people, you simply USE them to boost your own terminally sick ego. Which very obviously needs all of the boosting they can get, as you equally hate yourself, as much as you hate everyone else who honestly holds a differing opinion, and very likely also those that do not.
Socialism is not just bad, it is evil beyond most peoples wildest imaginings IMO. You clearly don’t possess an imagination, or you are even more EVIL then you at first appear to be.
Please try to get what remains of your utterly brainwashed mind to accept the following well documented home truths about SOCIALISM, and therefore establishment controlled democracy in general.
Socialism is an invention of THE UPPER CLASSES, not in anyway anything whatsoever to do with the working class. Very little, or indeed nothing whatsoever has ever been allowed to grow or prosper from the bottom of society. With the only possible exception of folk, and country music.
Socialism as well as liberalism are both dialectic Hegalian TOOLS by which ruling elites cement their complete control over common humanity. We do not now and have never during the past, existed within a free-market economy, or free anything else for that matter. Only people like myself, the self employed, and other prostitutes even get close to doing so.
Exactly the same ruling class elite families that ran this world 200 or so years ago, still run it today, albeit slightly more behind the curtains of the great pyramid of absolute power. In this and in many other ways, perfectly NOTHING has EVER changed.
Therefore if you wish to re/join common humanity, stop being a TOOL of the establishment, and start trying to engage with your fellow human beings with at least a degree of natural empathy, and therefore true understanding. If you try very hard indeed, and over a highly protracted period of time, you may actually learn something, worth knowing.
292. “just watched Downfall on Film4!”
So have I. I was curious to finally see the real dialogue after all the increasingly tedious spoofs. I suppose there have been one or two good ones, though.
299. So your line of attack tonight is “Armando Iannucci is a brilliant writer of comedy” ? Top notch.
307 - It really is a superb film. It’s brilliant portrayal of a madman actually going insane and yet with a bizarre rationality is excellent. Along with Goodbye Lenin and Lives of Others there have been some excellent films out of Germany recently…
309. Agreed. The Lives of Others is the best, I think, it’s so atmospheric.
Don’t tell me the tag team is tired and gone to bed. Not all together I hope.
Morning man needs to be on duty by 7 am at the latest to start the smeary day and start making a prat of your collective selves for another 18 hours.
311 - I think they are being punished for “wristbandgate”.
311 - Maybe they finally got too embarrassed. I mean spending hours bashing Cameron “odd” hand position was pushing things to say the least, only then to discover he was most likely only doing it for PR photos for a services charity. Most people would be so ashamed they wouldn’t show their face around the place for quite a while, but I’m sure come 8am back they will be. How sad.
310 - It was so touching in the way it exposed how the Stasi became all encompassing and controlling. The chilling side was how it was just matter of fact to those who worked there.
313 - I’ve found video footage of tim the moment he realises he’s just wasted 12 hours of his life mocking Dave’s photo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcctWbC8Q0
315 - Arrrhh the classic.
“Just catching up - Cameron does look absurd in his clenched-fist pose in front of a group of real soldiers - reminds me of Dukakis’s attempt to look fierce driving a tank. It’s as bad as his hug-a-husky moment.
Had the day off, playing for the Commons vs Lords bridge team - we won. My partner John Hemming (LibDem Yardley) and I never have time to play normally, but we think on similar lines…in bridge, anyway…
by Nick Palmer MP December 4th, 2009 at 9:01 pm “
Timing ?
Dr Kelly WAS murdered and there has to be a new inquest, says six top doctors
Six doctors who believe government scientist David Kelly was murdered have launched a ground-breaking legal action to demand the inquest into his death is reopened.
They are to publish a hard-hitting report which they claim proves the weapons expert did not commit suicide as the Hutton Report decided.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233330/Dr-David-Kelly-Six-doctors-demand-inquest-death-weapons-expert-prove-murdered.html#ixzz0Ym2DbrWu
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233330/Dr-David-Kelly-Six-doctors-demand-inquest-death-weapons-expert-prove-murdered.html
318 - Posting it twice wont make it any more true.
318 That will make for interesting viewing when our former PM gets questioned by Chalcot:
“Mr Blair, would you please tell us what you know about the murder of Dr. Kelly…”
Can I offer you a bet that any new inquest wont rule that his death was a murder?
319 Doesn’t make it untrue either.
320 He won’t. It’s all tooo cosy.
Brown’s improvement continues - another tory fox shot:
“Gordon Brown will announce the biggest shakeup of Whitehall in a generation next week as the government attempts to save billions of pounds by cutting the number of senior civil servants and abolishing a fifth of all quangos.
In an attempt to outflank David Cameron, the Tory leader, who accuses the government of presiding over a bloated state, the prime minister will promise to overhaul central and local government in order to cut Britain’s record £175bn deficit.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/dec/04/civil-service-cuts-brown-budget
‘In an attempt to outflank Mr Cameron’.
When we he ever learn?
When will you?
“They have also engaged lawyers to write to Attorney General Baroness Scotland and the coroner Nicholas Gardiner calling for a full re-examination of the circumstances of his death.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233330/Dr-David-Kelly-Six-doctors-demand-inquest-death-weapons-expert-prove-murdered.html#ixzz0Ym2DbrWu
Baroness Scotland later released a statement saying that Dr. David Kelly’s murder was a “technical breach of the rules”.
319 - sorry the copy also pulls in a separate link. I was questioning the timing of the article rather than it being true or not, Iraq Inquiry? I’m sure this story has been around the block before.
325…whilst Dr Kelly’s former cleaner was deported for immigration irregularities.
323 - No one believes Labour have the bottle to tackle Whitehall spending.
They announced cuts years ago and the staff numbers keep on going up.
In an attempt to outflank David Cameron, the Tory leader, who accuses “….the government of presiding over a bloated state, the prime minister will promise to overhaul central and local government in order to cut Britain’s record £175bn deficit.”
by Gabble December 5th, 2009 at 1:38 am
Gabble have you noticed that even the Guardian benchmarks the government against what the PM in waiting is proposing.
Of course it will all be timed for 2011 so no action needs to be taken now.
Cowardice in the face of a crisis.
328 Spending more and more is in Labour’s DNA. It’s what they do.
It’s about all they do. When confronted with any problem, spend. (Unless it is a miltary problem, of course. Then scrimp and save is the order of the day.)
328 Not even Gabble believes it. They don’t believe in anything - hence they have to resort to ‘outflanking’ the opposition.
Drfting, dead, sad, empty, vaccuous, bankrupt.
This is quite interesting from Channel 4…
http://whoknowswho.channel4.com/
Basically it’s an interactive map of who knows who in the public sphere. Some surprising results…
Another betting post and I’m sorry if I keep going on the same topic but the West Indies are 405/9 at the Adelaide Oval and I find it very very odd that Paddy Power still have the Windies as 9/1 to win the match.
They are a bad side but not THAT bad and they have over 400 on the board.
I’ve topped up.
‘Things can only get better’.
Its come to this.
Outflanking the opposition.
And they ususally c*ck that up.
323. Which does just confirm the Tories’ argument doesn’t it? The public sector has become overstaffed primarily because middle managers were allowed to build up little empires of people who spend most of the day looking at Facebook.
I know this is true because I work in the NI civil service. In my agency you could cut a third of the staff and it wouldn’t affect the front line services!
SallyC: “And they ususally c*ck that up.”
Quite.
335 - Coming back to the military that story about the RAF bases being closed (including one that was very important in the Piper Alpha rescue), another 10,000 personnel lost but not a single suggestion of one admin job that could go. I despair sometimes. We won’t be able to repel an invasion of moths at this rate…
325. The Oncoming Storm: “In my agency you could cut a third of the staff and it wouldn’t affect the front line services!”
Are you volunteering?
332 - thanks for the link, as you say some surprising connections.
336 - I find it sad that you think you have raised some witty point in your mind.
336 T
341 The mispelling of usually = the 10p tax debacle.
Not.
The dog wants its bed and I can’t type with her on my knee.
I’m off.
338. Typical snide comment!
I thought Labour’s ‘argument’ was that no cuts could be made in the public sector or else we would be back to the 1930’s! In fact there’s a lot of deadwood that could go without any adverse impact.
Try and address the issues for once instead of trying worship at the altar of St Gord.
335 - TOS - gissa job
That would make my girlfriend happy!
305
It is said by socialists that 80% of the wealth of the world is owned by 5% of the population, which may be true. However a far more enlightening statistic would be that 78% of the entire wealth of the planet is owned by around .000000000001% of the worlds population. Also that this around 400 incredibly rich and absolutely powerful people, would describe themselves as SOCIALISTS, if they described themselves as anything political at all. Lord Rothschild for example, is estimated to possess a fortune of around $500 trillion, or 60% of the entire wealth of the planet all by himself. Officially he says he is worth a relatively mere 58 billion.
People like TIM don’t care how rich people he does not know, and will never meet are. What he and his kind desire is a society where everyone he personally hates has not one brass cent more then he does. Which is anyone who has earned their wealth though honest hard work. The long since been so benefactors, and propagandists of Socialism such as Rothschild, Soros and Rockafella basically get a free pass to carry on living in palaces which would make the likes of The Queen of England and Saddam Hussain green with envy.
You will also note that TIM has said nothing about the rich who inhabit the BBC, and his own beloved political organization. As others have already noted.
As far as people like TIM are concerned.
Rich, otherwise ordinary, conservative thinking, honest hard working individuals = bad
Unbelievably rich, highly dishonest, murderously manipulative, socialism founding and financing, aristocratically related oligarchs = good.
Or
Robbing ones fellow citizen, before and after death, to help create a completely unaccountable one world socialist government, run by the owners, investors and controllers of the worlds banking system = perfectly wonderful.
Having to live in the same town as a person who has a better car, and therefore a more attractive partner then themselves = perfectly horrendous.
I call this sort of thinking I.S.W.S., or Ignorant Socialist W….r Syndrome.
346 - I think he’s a lizard as well.
346 - Life must really suck when you’re that paranoid.
Who is Jon Galt?
349 - Sorry. A syndicate of wealthy, jewish, shape-shifting lizard bankers seem to have sabotaged my keyboard.
Who is John Galt?
350 GizmoDuck
I didn’t see any reference to a John Galt earlier in the thread, but John Galt was a 19th century novelist from Irvine. He has a primary school named after him in the town. Unfortunately, it’s in a very deprived area and the two neighbouring primaries (also serving areas of multiple deprivation) do much better by the kids so it has a vastly reduced roll, as most parents choose to have their kids walk for a further 10 minutes to those schools, and so it is no longer necessary. Unfortunately, the Labour council chickened out of closing it so resources which could be used to reduce class sizes in those other schools are wasted. is anyone surprised?
346. You’re onto something John. All the attention is on Tory Toffs, but don’t Labour politicians have past histories too?
Try Good Morning Comrade. He might be finished in China and Russia, but does Lenin still walk in Downing Street?
As far as the very rich are concerned they like taxes as they never pay them anyway. It keeps the moderately rich in their place. And they can use socialism as a device to keep the masses in their control. The Gordon Browns of this world are their cretinous servants.
351 - I’m guessing you haven’t read Atlas Shrugged then. Still, I like the idea of a John Galt Primary School.
Lesson one children, “A is A”.
On the subject of I.S.W.S.
In my experience people who suffer from this disorder, are frustrated business men. Usually small time traders, pimps, smugglers, or drugs dealers. Which may explain why the likes of TIM have so much spare time on there hands, a completely confused mind, and untaxed cash in their pockets.
They have to say something to there victim clients while weighing up the deal. Otherwise the poor sods might start to resent their dealer getting their grubby grasping fingers, on part of their dole cheque, or the kids school dinner money.
I could very well be wrong, but it would be interesting reading TIMS explanation as to how he personally supports himself.
351 - Seriously though. Such schools should be allowed to fail. Bring on school vouchers.
Wild Bercow theory….
http://donalblaney.blogspot.com/2009/12/bercow-they-wouldnt-would-they.html
354 - I fail to see how that is in any way relevant to the International Silken Windhound Society?
356 - you’re right, wild indeed. It won’t happen though.
356. “You read it here first…”
And also last, for good measure.
346 - Life must really suck when you’re that paranoid.
Yes it certainly does suck, as you say.
However.
If you are not paranoid, you simply are not paying proper attention. Is that wise, either now, or at any other time during the history of so called civilisation?
As a small time industrialist I have always made it my business to know the real TRUTH of the situation. By which I have not only preserved my fortune, I have made several others, so please do not feel sorry for myself.
Believe this or not, it is people like YOU I feel very sorry for. The shock of what is about to unfold over the next few years may kill you, it certainly will not do me any harm. I used to be a Queens Scout, and so am very well, mentally, spiritually and financially prepared for what is most certainly going to happen. You may have noticed some of it already has.
THERE IS HOPE
However this hope can only be realised by a large enough minority finally seeing their society and its establishment for what it actually is, and not what they very understandably would wish it to be.
For example; we have now firmly established that the great C02=AGW scam is exactly that, a potentially extremely murderous, power preserving SCAM . The next step is to work out, or find out, who is behind it ALL. Which most certainly is not wholly or even substantially any elected politicians, or corrupted self-interested scientists. MONEY TALKS, so therefore FOLLOW THE MONEY. It really is that simple.
As for Lizards. Why do you people think that Lizards have anything to do with it, or specifically Jews for that matter? Surly you have not been paying real attention to the likes of David Icke, or have you?
Forget the disinformation, please try to concentrate your minds on well documented, highly provable, ever more substantiated FACTS.
I have studied every important armed conflict known to mankind. The pattern is truly horrific. With a few notable exceptions, levels of murder and mayhem have not decreased over time, they have increased at an alarming rate. The perfectly innocent victims of the next world culling will not be measured in millions, but in BILLIONS.
If you have not read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, please do so. however please try to understand that Ayn Rand was not at all what many have claimed her to be. Very much in common with the likes of H.G.Wells she worked for the enemy. Atlas Shrugged and 1984 had much in common. They were not warnings, they were indeed instruction manuals, or BLUEPRINTS.
A warning
C02=AGW was a relatively nice way the establishment intended to radically reduce the population of the world yet again. However the establishment ALWAYS have a back-up plan or two. Destroy this one, and another more devilish one will swiftly take its place. Or one certainly will if we do not learn our lessons well, from this particular abortive attempt.
356. UKIP Campaign Bus Is Stolen.
My dear Tapestry
As far as the very rich……
Please understand these people are far more then just very rich indeed. These people are so almost infinitely rich, no one has more then a sensible clue as to how rich they are, I doubt very much that they even know themselves. 10 or even 100 billions is not even small change worth picking up off the street. However you would be amassed at how much fun they get from steeling the last fiver from your back pocket. Especially if they can do so without you having a clue as to who has taken it.
They don’t just have a lot of money, they actually create it ALL.
ALL of it, every single national currency known to mankind. This has nothing to do with making money or indeed not paying taxes, which these people have hardly ever done. The Queen herself only started doing so a few years ago, and the actual amount is a national joke to say the least. THESE PEOPLE EFFECTIVELY OWN YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. Therefore just like any other live stock farmer they have to limit there future liabilities. Which is all members of their flock nearing retirement or ones whose wool is not up to a profitable commercial standard.
We have two types of farmers.
The first type lead their lambs to the slaughter, using a certain amount of stealth, and kind to be cruel type lies. The other type lead their lambs to slaughter, while laughing out load, and waving the butchers knife in front of the future meat products face, for example pathologically sick psychopaths like Saddam Hussain.
Our establishment have so far generally followed the former method, rather then the later. In fact they pride themselves on their relative humanity, while sending young men over the top in the thousands, to attempt to bounce German bullets off of their almost bare chests.
My advice is to assume that your own establishment is systematically or directly trying to murder you, until you have substantive evidence they they no longer wish to. For they have done so in the relatively very recent past, and I for one, believe they have every possible intention of doing so again. When the evidence shows otherwise I may possibly change my mind.
Right now I would say that the EVIDENCE shows that they are behind their own timetable and starting to get desperate to start “GETTING ON WITH THE JOB.” Gordon Brown and Barack Obama for example, are clearly itching to get well stuck in to there allotted tasks.
However don’t believe humble me. Ask Lord Monkton, Thatchers old advisor, he will explain our elites intentions far better and more convincingly them myself.
More easy, easy money for Robert Smithson on both these bets.
1. Mike, I’m sure you’ll find that the Kelly/Doctors story is the same conspiracy theory pushed by Dr David Halpin that he has been peddling for years.
Kellys wife and family are convinced that he committed suicide, the murder theory is the preserve of the crazed.
It’s crazy that the Speaker’s seat is not usually contested by the other parties. Once the Speaker has been selected, he should stand down from his constituency seat and a by-election should be held.
Its a Buckingham election face -off!!