Did Darling tell Brown to quit?
January 7th, 2010
This is from the blog of the excellent Iain Martin of the Wall Street Journal:-
“…the crucial meeting yesterday afternoon was between the chancellor and Gordon Brown.
Alistair Darling and Brown were alone together; they were the only two in the room. But extraordinary rumors are emerging about what was said.
I’ve heard from two Labour sources now that the conversation was very difficult and that Darling raised the possibility of Brown going, but the PM resisted. It would be taking it too far, says a well-placed MP, to say that the mild-mannered Darling told his old friend-turned-foe to call it a day. He said it was more that Darling floated the possibility of a swift departure for the sake of the party.
Darling’s short statement after the meeting was hardly a ringing endorsement. “As far as I’m concerned we should be concentrating on the business of government and getting through the recession.”
You might have expected Darling to say something stronger than that.
I just wonder whether there might be more to come on this even before the general election.
For a chancellor to be talking to his Prime Minister like this must be almost unprecedented. During those frenetic days in November 1990 the then chancellor, John Major, remained at home recovering from a wisdom tooth operation.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
Possibly
Can’t Be?
No.
Who knows. Is it worth speculating about? Does anyone think Darling is actually going to say either way? It’s just a blogger trying to get attention.
I am not sure the phrase “for the good of …” had any effect on Mr. Brown if he does not think the same.
Don’t know.
Darling might be the only one who is not demented enough to realise brown is a disaster. There have been a couple of slips and blog posts hinting that brown may call an early election due to the apparent lack of cabinet support yesterday !
FPT
George Osborne and William Hague have been in Afghanistan.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100021615/a-first-george-osborne-in-afghanistan/
Darling is a strange name for a bloke. Last person I called Darling was pregnant 20seconds later.
On topic, if he did, then that’s dynamite.
If they were alone we’re not likely to find out, alas. I suspect a large part of the conversation was a certain Balls.
I’m sure the speculation will rage, because specation is fun.
FWIW, Pretty strong denial from Darling’s people acc to Gary Gibbon at c4
“Did he suggest Gordon should think of going? His office today said that was “absolutely, categorically untrue.” ”
http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/2010/01/07/meetings-add-intrigue-to-the-labour-plot/#more-6844
Tosh, from someone who doesn’t understand the Cabinet system of government.
The only way Darling could “tell” Brown to go would be by going himself.
Last time I looked Darling was still Chancellor…
I’m not so sure Darling did the deed; he appears more and more a broken man with no enthusiasm for continuing to play these silly games.
The exact wording of the blog entry has the ring of truth to me. It fits.
What is going to be very difficult for Labour - more difficult, actually, than the original botched rebellion - is the overwhelmingly lukewarm endorsements given by the Cabinet members. It’s very difficult to launch a cavalry charge when the officers are sitting around smoking cigarettes and critiquing the general.
re 11. That sounds like confirmation
Seems entirely possible. Shame Darling doesn’t have a spine, he wouldn’t've caved in for the Budget, PBR and cuts Vs investment bullshit.
15, never believe anything until it’s been officially denied
I wonder if he said
“We can’t go on like this” ?
10. Yes, how could others have known about the conversation - unless through electronic means perhaps…
11 - That denial can be squared with the original story.
18 - Until Wayne assures us that he will not resign I will continue to believe that he will be Chancellor until the ge.
“Alistair Darling and Brown were alone together; they were the only two in the room. But extraordinary rumors are emerging about what was said.”
So, rumours without a shred of evidence or credibility, by their author’s own admission…
RodC
Don’t be silly. Anyone can tell the PM to go. His Chancellor, in private, certainly can. Now the PM doesn’t have to pay any attention of course.
And I still think the Ed Balls would have been a bigger part of the conversation than Gordon’s status.
15. Really? if you think “absolutely, categorically untrue” is confirmation, then literally _nothing_ Darling’s office or he himself could say would read as anything more than confirmation.
Which is how most of the political world thinks, and why, as I say, speculation will rage for a bit. The political world is more interesting if the possibility Darling said it exists than if it doesn’t.
Personally, I reckon that Darling is hardly likely to tell the PM to go, fail in that mission in a one to one with the PM, then tell only two people he failed to get Brown to resign, both of whom then give the (right wing) Pol ed of the WSJ a blow by blow account. Doesn’t ring true to me.
Personally, I don’t trust sources who appear to claim to possess ESP, anyway.
Iain Dale has something about Margaret Hodge getting into trouble
anyone know more?
23 - “And I still think the Ed Balls would have been a bigger part of the conversation than Gordon’s status.”
And I think they were wondering who Iris had been having an affair with. But what is the value of people who werent there speculating about what they discussed?
It’d be nice to think Darling had that sort of courage. But I don’t. If he had it, he’d have used it to stop this crazy endless spending.
Mike… Marvellous pic of Gordon Brown. Every picture tells a story..
23. Only if invited to do so, like Thatcher did in 1990…
Will Gordon Brown trust Darling with a Budget?
The whole thing could collapse at any time IMO.
Mike
Far be it from me to whine that I linked to this on the last thread over 3 hours ago.
*Huffs, and slinks into the corner*
If it emerges that Brown is clinging to office for reasons of personal glory then the electorate will hate him for it.
It is therefore important we get an answer to this question.
22
Rod
You forget that shouting is not unknown to Brown. And shouting is likely if his Chancellor suggested to Brown he had lost the confidence of the Party.
The ringing (not) messages of support suggest if that was Darling’s message then Darling was correct.
Otherwise why meet Gordon in private? If he wanted to support GB all he had to do was appear with him and say he was wonderful.
Nope: it was a meeting for quiet words of advice. Which were rejected. Hence darling’s lukewarm public response about the man who tried to replace him with Balls.. and then lied about it.
Gordon’s a frequent liar…
If the defeat that everyone expects does indeed come to pass, could it be that Labour are in the same position as the Liberal Party of a century ago, condemned to a slow and sad decline?
Their ideology has been shown to be both out of date and unworkable, their ‘core’ of unionised heavy industry and coal mines is disappearing rapidly, the unions themselves are declining - so you end up with the big question: what is the point of Labour? What is it for?
We are far beyond the cloth cap and pigeons, “what about the workers mate?”, ’soak the rich’ class warfare which is the timewarp they are stick in.
The whole point of ‘New Labour’ was to make Labour electable, which as a left wing socialist party they were not.
30, I’d be very surprised if the Government did fall now. There are only a few who could do it, collectively or alone.
Mandelson’s the key, because he’s both sly enough to protect or destroy the PM. If Brown gets crushed in a GE and then the Prince of Darkness slays him, it’ll be quite the fitting end to an epic tragedy.
25 Simon
There is a rumour on Twitter about a leading politician being in trouble with the law, not sure if it is related.
36, ha, could mean anything. It could be expenses, orthodox law-breaking or a case like Damian Green’s.
36 - Thanks
Dale is going to put more on his blog - but we will have to wait and see…
Re my post at 36
Here is the tweet from Cathy Newman of Channel 4 news
http://twitter.com/cathynewman/status/7486645443
Reports of this meeting were around from early yesterday evening and the end of it seemed to coincide with the beginning of the stuttering statements from non-Brownite cabinet ministers.
FPT 580 Frank Booth
Seth, I never intend to be rude to anyone on here. Sorry, …
Frank, no offence was intended nor taken.
It is just that sometimes I get carried away when talking to toffs and start acting well above my station. It is pure snobbery and completely unforgivable. I am the one who should be apologising.
Anyone else getting the feeling, that Labour want Brown out, and Mandy is trying organise a coronation, and all that we have to wait for is, for the cabinet to agree they are backing in said coronation?
The Margaret Hodge story is on Iain Dale’s website. It’s not very interesting really.
30 - I am increasingly of a view that it would be crazy to have a budget before election day now, regardless of any tensions across the 10/11 party wall. If you do what needs to be done, you hit a lot of people in the pocket. If you don’t, it is not credible and is possible economically destabilising in itself. Much better to call in a few weeks time.
Last person I called Darling was pregnant 20seconds later.
by The Screaming Eagles January 7th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Premature evaluator. Dangerous tendency, that.
No one has worked as closely with Brown for as long as Darling. Their relationship goes back 15 years with Darling being Brown’s finance number 2 since 1994 IIRC. If anyone could gently broach such delicate matters it would likely be Darling and it is that that rebels could have focussed on if this speculation is true.
Of course things have reputedly turned sour between the two of them but even so considering Darling has such a long history with Brown he would still be a logical choice to make such representations…..
The otherside is that such a suggestion is a career ending suggestion so if Alistair was re-elected he must be calculating that Brown will not be leading Labour after the next GE.
Whther any of it happened or not we will only know several years down the line….
39 - Dale has just posted this:
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2010/01/another-labour-mp-fleeces-taxpayer-to.html
Not really criminal - just an odd use of the Communications Allowance
So who knows what the C4 stuff is
42 TSE
But can you see them agreeing on who should be anointed?
re 31 I’m supporting an advertiser. The WSJ has been buying space on the site to promote the story.
I’ve not been at my PC this afternoon and have not been through the threads
32. If Brown is clinging to office for reasons of personal glory and he destroys The Labour Party, it would be quite an achievement.
Is that really what Hoon, Blair, Mandleson and Darling want?
Is this BBC News report on Shame Marriages something left over from last year?
42 - No. If Mandy had been closely involved in yesterday’s events, it wouldn’t have been the fiasco it was. Yesterday was bad for Brown, but worse for the Labour plotters.
Darling knows how deep Labour’s troubles are with interest rates rising as government debt becomes hard to shift. Darling knows how fast and how far revenues have fallen, and how much greater the real borrowing figures are than the ones quoted in the PBR.
He might have suggested that now would be a good time to call the election while the polls give only a 9% gap, and circumstances about to get a whole lot worse.
The £ might slide into the bargain, and the Parliamentary Party disintegrate. Darling might have said, come on Gord. Let’s go to the country now and the damage will be possible to overcome. But within another six months, a serious economic mess will be revealed.
Mike
As you may have gathered - I wasn’t being serious!
*Smiles and crawls out of the corner*
FPT, Jack W, in Luton South, it’s a straight choice between Conservative and Labour, and so it’s very easy to decide who to vote (and leaflet) for.
48 - I can actually. I think Labour realise they are on the cusp of an extinction level election.
They want to keep their seats and have a chance of winning if not in 2015 then in with a chance in 2020.
Nothing focuses the mind, as imminent extinction.
Mandy as PM from the Lords, with Jack Straw as his representative on Earth, you heard it hear first.
51 Had he been involved, Brown would have been swiftly despatched.
That sounds like confirmation
by Mike Smithson January 7th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
Indeed. The Sir Humphrey rule: don’t believe it until it is officially denied.
O/T BBC NI will be airing further details about the Iris Robinson affair tonight. Use of public funds rather than the affair itself is likely to be the main focus of the programme.
Noticed on BBC News that Brown sounds remarkably chipper.
Are we going to have a bizarre unforseen reaction like we did with the Sun story?
Surely not.
55. TSE
And you think the Unions will back the man who wants to privatise Royal Mail. Where’s the Party funding going to come from?
Given the likely state of Labour’s finances after the GE unless they find some new sponsors then it will be the Unions who decide who the next Labour leader will be or indeed whether Brown remains…
58 - I suspect Iris got the pleading and god stuff in early before the mamman appeared.
Really couldn’t happen to a nicer person.
60 - I think Mandy will deploy the line of who would you rather have in charge, me or that Old Etonian? (To the Unions)
Darling’s denial and the WSJ would be technically consistent if what he actually said was ‘You must go unless …’. The WSJ account would be missing a key qualification, which can happen easily enough, and Darling would be splitting hairs, but that too isn’t unheard of.
I can certainly see Darling telling Brown he’d have to go if he didn’t toss a few bones to the grumblers.
61 - Mammon- the false god of riches and avarice.
61 - There must be something to her. Pulling a man a third of her age.
49 “I’m supporting an advertiser.”
I look forward to the traffic coming the other way - with people from the WSJ getting very excited about where they can buy stocks in enormo-haddock…
Did Darling tell Brown to quit?
Surely this could be forensically determined by an inspection of the wall behind Darling’s seat.
63 - But the WSJ account was either made up or based on second-hand versions that were themselves probably made up. So I think we can take the denial at face value.
58 I suspect that anything that’s bad for the DUP may be good for a few seats for the Tories and UCUNF. Everyone assessing likely election results seems to count the 18 NI seats as “others” but of course every UUP seat is a Tory one now and the Sinn Fein seats help as well.
61 - I think someone should remind Mrs Robinson on what the bible says about adulterers.
Given she likes to quote what the bible says about Sodomites
62. TSE
He might get a shock then!
Seriously, I don’t think there is any Blairite who can play that game. My hunch is that the unions will put one of their people in (Johnson, Harman, Cruddas) or perhaps Balls if Brown and Whelan still have sway… Brown could still do a deal to stay himself as well.
68 you know that with certainty do you?
71 - He may, the key thing for me yesterday, was how little spark there was in Mandy on newsnight.
You don’t have agree with him or like him, but normally he’s good to watch.
He looked like a man resigned/angry to the ineptness of it all.
72 - As we know the blogger wasnt there then the only word I have any doubt over is “probably” and I’m willing to stick my neck on the line over that one.
30. Martin Day January 7th, 2010 at 6:14 pm - Will Darling be trusted to give a budget?
I can’t see how Brown can allow Darling to give a budget now. Things are getting worse by the day, not better. If there’s to be no budget, this then rules-out May 6th. But what if Brown isn’t in control of events any more?
The earliest day in which a budget can be called by law is Tuesday 9th March but budgets always seem to be on a Wednesday, say, 10th March and that’s because you can’t have a budget within 3 months of a PBR, which was on 9th December.
But what if a ‘liberated’ Darling said ‘Sod it!’ we’re having a budget anyway? That would force an early election.
We’ll know soon enough, the date of the Budget is normally announced in the last week Jan/1st wk Feb. From that we’ll infer the date of the election.
Off Topic - I happen to know a little about why the Port of Felixstowe is closed. It’s been a lead-story on Sky News. The gantry crane drivers and lorry drivers need to be able to see the markings on the quayside so all the equipment lines-up. Normally, the port has lots of salt on-hand to grit the container areas. But the Government has forbidden any salt to be delivered to ‘private’ organisations. The port used a 300 tonne consignment delivered before Xmas but now can’t get any more. So Britain’s pre-eminent trade artery is blocked because some civil servant says only councils can take deliveries. Brilliant isn’t it. No wonder the country’s seized-up. So much for our ability trade out of recession. The Government’s micro-management is preventing the ‘export-led’ recovery Darling keeps puffing. Things Can’t Go On Like This.
Bunnco - Your Man On The Spot.
73. The Screaming Eagles January 7th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Could be fun and games at cabinet tommorrow.
Mandelson could do a Heseltine flounce!
O/T - It’s official, it will snow in Atlanta today. It is snowing in Birmingham AL - 200 miles due west on I-20, and headed this way in 2-3 hours.
It will likely not be more than a coating - an inch or two at most - but several counties closed schools for the day.
As you can imagine. Georgia is even less prepared for snow than Britain. It snows occasionally in places like Dahlonega and Helen in the nort Georgia mountains (southern end of the Appalachians), but not here.
12 I think Rod Crosby has this one right.
Of course, Darling might have had a more nuanced exchange of views with Brown, falling short of actually advising him to chuck it in.
59 - Tim, I think his chipperness is because, after this attempt, surely no plot can take Brown down. The ill health stuff has obviously fallen away, and if you read the collated responses by Labour MPs on LabourList, everyone in effect HAS united behind Brown - because they know it’s (a) too late to change him now; and (b) there really *isn’t* anyone to replace him - Miliband Snr has now bottled two, if not three, chances, if Johnson takes over the Tory posters write themselves (”I’m simply not up to the job of PM”). and Harriet has effectively been told “We will hang you out to dry if you knife us.”
My take on it is that Mandelson and co have decided that it’s too late to ditch him, so they may as well do the best they can, while acknowledging pretty openly that they will lose heavily under Brown - but, as long as Mandelson and co are seen to ahve pulled their weight, he can still have the leverage to prevent Balls becoming leader afterwards. That is what Mandelson is aiming for now. (Off thread, I thought his performance on newsnight was actually very good - he really can face down Paxman’s incredulity without flinching. My favourite bit was when paxman pressed him 3 times on “So no one - NO ONE - in the Cabinet has ever expressed any doubts about GB’s leadership?” mandelson - not a flicker of emotion as he said, repeatedly “That’s right.”)
71. TSE I didn’t see his performance last night but I can imagine he has pretty much given up on the whole debacle of a party that Labour are especially now the Blairites have failed again to dethrone Brown (using the three strikes and your out ethos).
Mandy will have known that yesterday’s stunt was dumb even if it had been somewhat more successful. To me it was the final straw. I can’t see Labour making any sustained fightback now they are just too destabilised.
78 - You maybe onto something.
Out of all our recent Prime Ministers, I think Gordon Brown seems to be least suited to with dealing with a defeat.
Tony Blair left downing Street and is enjoying life
Ditto John Major.
Perhaps Darling said, for your own sake, go for you get beaten
78 - If you read the original article, a nuanced exchange of views seems to be exactly what was had.
Something odd went on yesterday in this Government.
My guess is that in “the Missing Afternoon”, the named six plotters plus Darling told Gordon the basis upon which they would agree not to support the H&H motion - a support which would have brought him down in 24 hours. Nobody really wants the job at this point; it is not going to be very palatable to have to take the electoral flak for Brown’s mess. But someone - perhaps Straw - made it clear he would, if he had to.
Labour’s looming losses can be bad (recoverable) or very bad (perhaps, with its financial woes, an end to the party as a political force). Gordon was told that his current stewardship meant very bad was very likely. They’ll have their internal polling, after all, especially from the Midlands and the North, giving a fair idea of just how bad. In particular, his insistence on following Balls - on VAT, on Tory cuts versus Labour investment, on class warfare - would make a mess much messier. So Gordon was read the riot act. He was told he would:
- keep Balls away from the election effort, especially the Manifesto and the campaign strategy;
- accept that there would be a new direction in the run up to an election on May 6th, embracing a more realistic approach to the problems in the economy. Perhaps even having to accept personal responsibility for some issues which had not gone well on his watch; and (most importantly)
- he would have NO SAY AT ALL in the Budget which Darling would deliver. “Just like you used to do to Tony - the Prime Minister will hear it first when the Chancellor stands up to deliver it.”
Yesterday afternoon, Prime Minister Brown had his Balls lopped off.
JNT
everyone in effect HAS united behind Brown
Well except for those who are standing down at the GE (one third of the PLP?) and I suspect for the majority of the rest it is like a beaten and defeated army going out in one last blaze of glory (Balaclava style)……
What did the Cabinet get in return for their ’support’?
That’s the only question that matters this afternoon.
Alistair Darling’s one-on-one is the most intriguing. Treasury sources have roundly denied any suggestion that he asked Brown to quit. But much more interesting, the Chancellor emerged from the meeting very, very pleased.
Did he get assurances about his control of the political narrative on the economy? Did he secure agreement for a more detailed mini-CSR to coincide with the Budget?
Jack Straw and Harriet Harman went in together. Did they both get promises of prominent roles in the election campaign and strategy-input?
Harriet was unusually ratty in the Commons today, refusing to answer questions about the tardiness of her ‘loyalty’ statement. She did, however, finally cave in when David Miliband’s integrity was questioned. “The Foreign Secretary is getting out there and doing his job, that’s what the PM and whole country expect him to be doing,” she said. V defensive on his behalf.
As for Mandelson himself, maybe we all missed his most significant line on Newsnight last night? After he breezed his way past Paxo’s slings and arrows, he pushed the envelope on the need for real cuts in spending.
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2010/01/what-did-the-cabinet-get-in-return-for-their-support.html
59: ‘Are we going to have a bizarre unforseen reaction like we did with the Sun story? Surely not’
tim, I’ve been thinking as much myself. Ironically, for someone who tried to base his reputation as the gnarly, courageous political hard man, Brown is most popular when he comes across as a persecuted, awkward, tearful child. He should conduct his next press conference wearing short trousers and brandishing a snotty hanky. Many will see him as a ‘poor wee mite’ hounded by the big-boy bullies in the Cabinet who needs to be mothered. Indeed, perhaps the whole circus of yesterday was one big hoax to create another nationwide ‘poor little Gordon’ sentiment.
Thank goodness jsfl says Labour won’t make a come back, in my book that means a come back is on the cards.
jsfl=Tory Troll.
“Alistair Darling’s one-on-one is the most intriguing. Treasury sources have roundly denied any suggestion that he asked Brown to quit. But much more interesting, the Chancellor emerged from the meeting very, very pleased.
Did he get assurances about his control of the political narrative on the economy? Did he secure agreement for a more detailed mini-CSR to coincide with the Budget?
Jack Straw and Harriet Harman went in together. Did they both get promises of prominent roles in the election campaign and strategy-input?”
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2010/01/what-did-the-cabinet-get-in-return-for-their-support.html
Richard N I am sure that Darling did not go in and say,’ you must quit now’.
Rather that the situation was difficult and that polls suggest a change of leader might be a good idea. But certainly a change of style and content was needed. And by the way stop fiddling with things within my remit.
After all I am sure he wants to keep the Labour government and party in touch with reality and longevity.
75. That’s interesting Bunnco. On today’s WATO they ran a story attempting to pin all blame for shortages of grit on Tory run councils. A Labour rep dismissed as absurd the idea that grit was regulated by central government. Your story suggests to me that the government are regulating distribution of grit. Any info on whether this is the case? And if so are the government trying to turn grit into a political story? Looks that way to me.
85- Snap!
“Too-smooth David Cameron fails to brush off poster rumour”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/07/david-cameron-campaign-poster-rumour
Paul Waugh has more on this:
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2010/01/what-did-the-cabinet-get-in-return-for-their-support.html
It appears that a series of meetings were held (maybe this is where the “Spineless 6″ emerged from). I wonder if no one was prepared to force him out but just tried to get him off their turf?
Does anyone, other than Jonathan Ross and the BBC itself, believe that his forthcoming departure from the Corporation really is the second most important world/national news story to report on their 6pm bulletin and then proceed to give over approximately 4 minutes’ coverage to it?
These ministers all lie to the public about policy anyway so why can’t they just lie and say they support Gordon rather than do it half arsed and pathetically.
Mike Smithson
I’ve just re-read your response to me.
“I’m supporting an advertiser. The WSJ has been buying space on the site to promote the story.”
I’m not complaining - yours is a commercial organisation which needs to turn a profit, and you provide a hugely useful service.
BUT
I presume that if political parties bought advertising space to plug a story, you would tell them to get lost?
83. MM
And Brown uses Labour Leader’s standard operating procedure which is to verbally agree to all the demands and then renege on the deal at the appropriate moment.
The ‘Blairites’ have ‘failed’ three times to oust him. Brown has the ascendency over them and the placemen (such as Whelan) in the right places. I suspect he has the conditional support of the Unions (with Royal Mail etc being the bargaining chip). All Brown has to do is hold out a few more weeks and then he can tell the Blairites to get lost. Are they really going to tear down their own party?
Box of tissues for tim !!!
cathynewman
Steve Hilton arrested and fined £80 for disorder - C4News exclusive
86.
This is good satire, but it’s also horribly close to the truth. I too wondered if snowgate would ironically give Brown a sympathy vote bounce.
84 the vacuous, reality tv and celebrity obsessed chavtacular British populace are probably choking on their buckets of cheap crap from Iceland and whatever plonk Bob at work recommended at this very moment over Ross-gate.
No, but he might have suggested quitting was a possibility.
Guido announces that Steve Hilton was arrested in Manchester….
not sure what that means
92 - Why would a man who already knows the voters think he’s vain have that poster done?
Its the chauffeur.
98 - No surpises, Cameron is surrounded by low life.
94 - Peter from Putney, it’s currently the third most read story on the BBC news website and was top earlier. I can’t get excited about “celebrity moves job”, but obviously there are a lot of people who can.
104 I wouldn’t sy he was surrounded by low life tim, more he sits opposite them in the Commons.
104 - No surpises, Cameron is surrounded by low life.
Bit like Blair then?
His son did somethign similar didn’t he?
Right after his Dad has said about frogmarching drunks to Cash machines?
98. How long has this story been kept hidden. Timing is suspiciously good for Brown.
100. Kristin - Patricia Hewitt and Geoff Hoon yesterday called for a secret ballot on Brown’s leadership. However the effort to oust him failed to ignite because ministers failed to resign. Nick Robinson, nevertheless named six ministers who are supposedly party to the plot. After several hours they all gave reluctant, half arsed endorsements of Brown. No-one quite knows if Brown is damaged or not.
103. This isn’t a Damian Green style arrest is it?
97 jsfl, Brown only needs to be kept properly controlled until the Budget is delivered. Then he will have to campaign on some vapid narrative of “doing what is required to protect the recovery”, in line with what Darling has delivered in the Budget.
If he refuses to agree to this at tomorrow’s Cabinet meeting, then the Seven (and perhaps others) WILL agree to the H&H proposal. Their position has not yet been locked down; but my guess is that a budget date will be agreed tomorrow - and the GE team too. Brown has effectively been overthrown by a coup that keeps him in place as PM in name only.
Expect Balls to emerge from Cabinet with a face like thunder…
108 - Happened at the start of October
92.
““Too-smooth David Cameron fails to brush off poster rumour”
He is working hard to sell us “Greasy ‘un 2010″ while he himself is using Cherry Blossom?
Mind you, GideO and Podgie Peedie ( of the Deripaska yottie posse) are battling for that crown.
Sirus
Has a baby bot come to play then? Clearly I have tweaked a nerve or two….
However, the ‘troll’ comment is a bit naive (and rather archaic language for this site). The normal parlance is ‘herd’. Quite offensive perhaps but certainly less than the left wing alternative which is ‘plague’ (as per rats).
As some of the Conservatives will no doubt tell you I am not any sort of Conservative really. Right of centre perhaps and an honorary son at times. However, I appreciate it is difficult for those on the left to be able to distinguish (all us blues look and sound alike don’t we?)
C4 are not going big on the Hilton story - very low down on their running order
It is something dragged up from the past - big deal
And Tim - before you get over-excited - just remember that Hattie is up before the courts in the coming weeks. Now that is a real story
Steve Hilton called a policeman a Wanchor at the Tory Conference.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/top+tory+steve+hilton+arrest+revealed+/3491837
Is calling someone a w****r really something which gets a £80 fine?
“Top Tory Steve Hilton arrest revealed”
“Hilton is understood to have been dashing to get the train back to London at the end of the party’s annual conference in Birmingham.
He was asked to show his ticket, failed to produce it quickly enough and got into a dispute with train staff. The police were then called.
He then started to swear - shouting out “w****r”. He was promptly arrested and taken to a police station at Birmingham New Street.”
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/top+tory+steve+hilton+arrest+revealed+/3491837
Ave it!
Super cricket - England = Camo!!!
Who is Steve Hilton? Not related to my former class-mate Alex is he?
90 PollyB - I posted the confirmation story upthread.
The Hilton Story:
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/top+tory+steve+hilton+arrest+revealed+/3491837
Exclusive: One of David Cameron’s top advisers, Steve Hilton, was arrested over a dispute over a train ticket after a Conservative party conference, it emerged today.
The Tory leader’s director of strategy was fined £80 for disorder in October 2008, staff at Conservative Central Office confirmed tonight.
Hilton is understood to have been dashing to get the train back to London at the end of the party’s annual conference in Birmingham.
He was asked to show his ticket, failed to produce it quickly enough and got into a dispute with train staff. The police were then called.
He then started to swear - shouting out “w****r”. He was promptly arrested and taken to a police station at Birmingham New Street.
He was then de-arrested and issued with a penalty notice for disorder.
A British Transport Police spokesman told Channel 4 News: “I can confirm that shortly before 5pm on Wednesday 1 October 2008, a 39-year-old man from London was arrested at Birmingham New Street railway station after a dispute over the production of his ticket.
“Once the man had calmed down, he was issued with a penalty notice for disorder under section 5 of the Public Order Act.”
A Conservative spokesman tonight confirmed Hilton had been involved in a dispute about the production of a ticket at Birmingham New Street.
In a statement, the party said he had a valid ticket but was unable to produce it quickly enough and that after he apologised he was de-arrested.
Shows it is a complete non-story
nothing to see her
Arrested - then released without charge
WOW!
90. The Salt is becoming a Political Football. The Government is pulling the strings at the highest level on this: A massive planned shipment to the USA in a bulk-carrier has been delayed and there are extra shipments being brought in from Europe, even Spain. As the snow is forecast to last for 2 weeks at least, this is a story that will run-and-run and the Government is sensing vulnerability. But it’s nothing to do with ‘Tory Councils’. This is the Centrally Planned Economy in action. Lenin would be proud.
Bunnco - Your Man On The Spot
“For a chancellor to be talking to his Prime Minister like this must be almost unprecedented. During those frenetic days in November 1990 the then chancellor, John Major, remained at home recovering from a wisdom tooth operation.”
I still find it utterly incredible to see Brown in Downing Street without the support of his Chancellor and others in the Cabinet. And for the media to describe him as the great survivor! Just heard him try to do his Gloria ‘I will survive’ moment on ITN, totally turned my stomach to be honest.
Thatcher, Major and Blair all won leadership contests and GE’s, but they all knew when the game was up, or those around did. Major faced down his plotters and rebels with his put up or shut up vote of confidence ballot as well. But for Brown to be described as a survivor or having faced down the plotters because he stubbornly behaved true to form is not a victory or an asset to his party and government right now. He is even more wounded politically, and yet again he proves a distinct lack of courage to face any kind of ballot. Hope that Brown, Balls and Mandelson have a plan B, or they are going to bring down their party and not just their government.
Oh god, Mandelson still peddling the line that he told other Ministers to play things down, how can such barefaced dishonesty be tolerated by the media? And going on about Labour loyalty too, pass the sick bucket!
Biggest failure of the political lobby yesterday, their obsession with chasing David Milliband, they didn’t even have some of their other targets on the radar. No, the big story was the statement from Darling which they barely glanced at and just seemed to tick on some sort of list, his views could cause Brown a hell of a lot more damage than Milliband. The Foreign Secretary could go, but not the Chancellor.
And it doesn’t matter who gave Robinson that list, or what their reasons were either. We are now past smoking out the rebels games, or trying to brief against the enemies of Brown, that was the group that obviously didn’t back Brown in private yesterday. It also looks like we have at least three factions in the Cabinet who are talking to each other because they all think that Brown has to go, and he needed to go now. Two reasons, the PBR and the Balls/Cooper/Whelan axis gaining more influence about the direction of the party. And also because I think that some of the wiser heads in the party also do fear that Brown will be true to form and dither to the last moment before bottling the GE again.
Hoon and Hewitt are no longer in the government, but add in Darling/Murphy/Alexander and Jack Straw to the mix, and this is very serious. Do not underestimate Jim Murphy as a very intelligent political operator, nor Alexander either. He was about the brightest of the young turks in the Brownite camp, and would have been a rival to Balls if he had not been dispatched early on and blamed for the bottled GE.
Then we have Harriet Harman followed by Milliband and Ainsworth bringing up the rear. Yep, that is where I rate Milliband in that list, the most over rated and over promoted member of the Cabinet with the least political nous, and even less courage than Gordon too.
I don’t think this plot has fizzled out at all, but rather its now lit a very slow burning fuse instead.
This Hilton thing as reported on 121 is not even worth writing about, big deal.
McBride anyone?
I knew things were autocratic but being arrested and taken to a police station for calling a copper a wankker really is a bit OTT in comparison to many town centres on a Saturday night.
He wasn’t arrested under the terrorism legislation, was he? Or was he evilly taking photos of the station or the police. That gets you life, doesn’t it?
So what we have from the points made above is the proposition that some of the cabinet forced Brown to agree to stop Balls interfering in the direction of the Govt outside his dept. That would explain why most of their names were leaked to Robinson.
117. Gabble January 7th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
So what.
Labour MPs were calling each other alsorts of similar names yesterday!
115.
“Steve Hilton called a policeman a Wanchor at the Tory Conference.”
Copper cross with being associated with the Tories?
In this picture, he looks remarkably like a young Mussolini. Will a Khammereon government make him run for his train on time?
http://www.channel4.com/news/media/images/Channel4/news/articles/07_stevehilton_k.jpg
116 Wibbler
I suggest we send the police to Delauncey Street in Primrose Hill. They could fund the whole national debt from the fines levied.
5 Live - Pienaar says the January plot has ended in failure.
Surely this was the last hurrah and the stage is now set.
110. MM - We’ll have to agree to disagree. With every failed attempt the rebels have wrecked their credibility IMO. I can’t see them being able to tell Gordon anything now. I just see a fractured and dysfunctional Labour party.
So Hilton can’t produce his train ticket and gets £ 80 fine.
Campbell helps start an illegal war - any guesses for the punishment ? Knighthood perhaps.
C4 are as warped as the BBC.
105 antifrank - Of course people are interested, just like millions follow the storyline of Eastenders, yet millions more couldn’t give a stuff.
Sorry, but that’s simply not the point, the Beeb is confusing News with Showbiz.
Wow, thanks Polly. I’ll try and skim the threads, but my boiler decided to freeze again whilst I was out the country so need to warm the house up first.
121.
Simon is really simple simple simon? Spinning like an England cricketer on a table top.
If you accept a fixed-penalty notice then you have been effectively charged, pleaded guilty and been sentenced, all in one go. And it stays on your computer record.
Labour total nuclear wipeout!!!
Steve Hilton is a product of a broken society.
He must be curfewed.
Hilton was probably arrested because the police could not understand what he was saying and thought he may have been on drugs. As anyone who has read his emails would also conclude…
I was once in a supermarket (Partly owned by a Big Labour donor)car park. The person on the gate had seen me walk outside the car park briefly and even though i had bought some food in the supermarket proceeded to charge me £3. After protests i paid up as people were becoming impatient. After the barrier was raised and just as i set off I shouted F*ck You at the person on the gate - I was out of work at the time must be 8 years ago! It made me feel better!
So if Hilton throw a wobbler so what!
It sounds like Hilton was shouting ‘wanker’ at the train staff after they had called the police.
Another tory bully but repentant this time.
Expect the normal array of tory low-life to parade the excuses.
What were the leasons learnt by Councils, Politicans from last year’s salt shortage? At least that was the line thrown up last winter, lessons will be learnt, we will mend our ways, we will not be late with the homework.
Were any stockpiles built up over the summer?
Channel 4 claiming that this weather will hang on for another week. Could make life interesting.
“David Miliband defies the Prime Minister by assuring Iceland its £2.3bn debt repayment vote will not affect EU bid”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1241437/Miliband-defies-Prime-Minister-assuring-Iceland-decision-debt-repayment-vote-affect-EU-bid.html
I could not believe it when it was suggested that Hilton was 39. He looks even older that his lookalike Liam Byrne, possibly even than Billion Rupee Murdoch. I scratched my head and asked myself ” What makes the difference in the way these blue meejah fellahs age?”
Deng-dong!!! I worked it out
Evening news [ITV I think] ran with Govt ignoring salt warnings. Channel 4 doing the same now.
140. Gabble January 7th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Didn’t Peter Mandelson say some journos were something that sounded like chumps?
136 Ave It
Patricia Hewitt & Geoff Hoon = Weapons of Mass Destruction (Labour seats)
140 Gabble - deport him back to California for all I care…..
On Hilton - he should have behaved.
I am glad he didn’t say, ‘do you know who I am?’ like a couple of others we could mention.
141 - The government dithered. A report was given to the government by the local authories in the summer, but Labour waited until December to take any action- ITV News
Gabble you may want to ask why a four month old story about Hilton is suddenly so important, and more interesting than Geoff Hoon sticking the knife into Brown’s back?
Hilton may have been ill mannered, provoked, fed up, but why was this story broken tonight? Someone is calling for some favours.
Meanwhile Adonis says nothing about supporting Brown.
Noticed on BBC News that Brown sounds remarkably chipper.
Are we going to have a bizarre unforeseen reaction like we did with the Sun story?
Surely not.
by tim January 7th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Who’m the god’s seek to destroy, tim, they first make mad.
It’s more than a truism, you can see it in our Great Leader’s glazed eye. The big question is what’s he been taking?
His outbursts of manic laughter at weird moments - at PMQ’s, at speech sessions and just talking with the media, have been noted.
And this is leading the country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
140 Gabble
If Hilton had called the copper a “chump”, he might have got on all the news channels and been hailed as a wit.
Funny thing this language of ours.
Lord Adonis now on C4News blustering on the salt situation. For someone who says he’s ‘focused on keeping Britain moving’, he hasn’t grasped the nature and number of players in the salt industry. Clearly he’s not been focused enough!
142 This is where the stories will go. Any inconsistency will be viewed as Brown having lost his authority. Any change in tack will be seen as the cabinet have brought him to heel.
59 - I imagine that Gordon Brown is remarkably chipper because he knows he’s seen off all threats this side of a general election. That would put a spring in anyone’s step after 18 months of backstabbing and plotting.
OT
Only the BBC could do this
6 O’clock news
Big feature on snow, followed by story on global warming - don’t worry folks, global warming is still happening!
121: ‘The Tory leader’s director of strategy was fined £80 for disorder in October 2008′
2008? So why has it only come out now? Obviously a Gordon sympathizer in the Plod or - perhaps more likely - the civilian staff felt they ought to do their bit for the Operation Coup-Distraction. Moreover, I recall that when I was arrested and released without change (a slightly heated discussion with a ‘countryside rambler’) I was told that my record of arrest would only be kept for a year, so the leaker’s been sitting on the story for a bit.
137
tim, if there is anyone who is the product of a broken society. its you. Just re read your own posts. It’ll jump out at you…
Surely there can’t be time for a leadership change - it would take a minimum of 5 weeks to sort out the conference and wouldn’t there also have to be a deputy leadership election? Even if the leadership wasn’t contested I can’t believe the deputy’s job won’t be and if Harriett is involved in the coup then some bitter Brownite (Balls ?) is sure to stand against her.
Also imagine in the unlikely event of Cameron making some gaffe and the Tories dropping in the polls then there is no scope for a snap election. No way will they ditch him now…I think Brown’s challengers are too scared to go for him now - they’re taking a longer view - the Tories will probably win the election with a small majority and Brown will step down. The economics will then hit the fan…the Euro-sceptics will wake from the dead to divide the Conservative Party and hey presto it’s odds-on Labour in 2114.
154 - The old ‘Will you/Gordon Brown serve a full term if Labour are re-elected’ will also be asked in every interview during the election Brown/Ministers give.
C4 further eroding Brown’s credibility… not very positive for Brown or Labour.
Gabble, the Steve Hilton story has been culled from the files by CH 4 News because that organisation is in effect the mouthpiece of the Labour Party, and does it’s bidding when it gets orders from the bunker.
2014 even :o)
152 - Is that all Hilton did?
We know Dave usually chooses people with coke, whores or bullying issues to be close to.
How did Hilton get the job?
Bet he went to public school.
158 - Substance please or walk the dog.
148.
“I am glad he didn’t say, ‘do you know who I am?”
Doesn’t that presuppose the idea that he knows who (or what) he is?
156. Cold snap = The Curse of Copenhagen!
39 - Apparently Steve Hilton is a “leading politician” for Cathy Hilton. Next time I read a journalist’s unattributed comment from a “leading” MP, Cabinet minister or whatever, I shall recall this tweet.
I recall Gabble being very keen to minimise the significance of the tube official who voiced his wish to throw a passenger under a train. Perhaps he had ascertained his non-Tory voting intention before opining.
No one should call rail employees “wanchors” (even though a surprisingly high proportion of them merit the insult, being particularly prone to thinking that a badge means that they rule the world). An £80 fine is entirely appropriate.
No surprises but good on Prf Nutt
“Five members of the Government’s official drugs advisory panel are to join a new independent group set up by sacked drugs adviser, David Nutt.
Prof Nutt said the new group would be “very powerful” and would take over the role of the official Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD)…”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8447222.stm
Now we know why they let him stay. After all Brown never made this promise before.
“Gordon Brown to rein in senior courtier Ed Balls
PM promises to run more inclusive cabinet after resentment over influence of inner circle, Whitehall source says
“Gordon told colleagues that he would run a more inclusive and harmonious cabinet,” one Whitehall source said. “We’ll just have to see whether that translates into action.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/07/gordon-brown-ed-balls-cabinet
163
tim..true to form I see…
157.Starkey, I thought it a poor show that we didn’t hear about Harman’s little bump for a week or two, but this takes the biscuit.
What’s wrong with being a w***er?
Um, why is everyone looking at me?
Crikey this Channel 4 thing is a real political hatchite job - complelty pointless but that is a very poor bit of chaffe!
I actually think it is amusing.
+++ BETTING QUESTION +++
Am I doing something wrong…?
144 Sallyc Itv news is Cameron news.
Hilton will be airbrushed like Cameron the poster boy.
154/ 160 This is the thing with this latest kamakazi attack from H&H. All it has achieved is to open old wounds and raise more questions about the credibility of Browns future leadership and in particular post GE (who is loyal?, what his future team could be? how long could he survive etc etc?).
No matter what assurances Labour or Brown now give it is an open sore that the vultures in the media can peck away at ad infinitum throughtout the campaign. Whereas before yesterday it was a dead story.
168 Deja vu all over again - Gordon promised this at least twice before - just after the Euro meltdown was the latest.
Why on Earth anyone thinks he’s changed his spots eludes me…
Prof Nutt must be a blimmin nut to say what he did. It may be statistically correct to say that smoking tobacco was more dangerous than cannabis but then again it’s probably true to say that running across a closed level crossing with a baby in a pushchair is statistically safer too…but he would dream of saying it. Seems that he’s just another “expert” dazzled by the bright lights of fame…
171.
“why is everyone looking at me?”
You mean you’ve searched for the reason but nothing comes to hand?
168 Me - Trouble is we’ve been here before. After every previous coup scare, Brown has promised something similar.
But that article has a real comic gem:
Mandelson thought that Balls acted in an uncollegiate way
“Did Darling tell Brown to quit?”
I think he did, and that he had the backing of other senior Ministers to do so. And the way events unfolded yesterday afternoon and evening also suggests that is the case too. Interesting to see the most prominent ‘unelected’ member of the government yet again stepping into bail out Brown in the media. Maybe if he had a seat which was under threat from another party as well as being in a government heading for defeat, it might help Mandelson to concentrate on the most important job right now, keeping the Labour party rather than Brown afloat. They are now totally at odds with each other.
166. antifrank
I think people who serve the public deserve respect and if, in the course of their duties, they, for instance, ask a passenger to produce a valid ticket or ask a passenger to stand back from the platform edge for their own safety, they should be heeded rather than ignored or abused.
Nice article by Martin Kettle
“Brown’s defeat of this revolt is hardly any victory at all”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/07/brown-defeat-revolt-labour-leadership
148 I once overheard a Labour counciller playing hell with a traffic warden.
“Saying do you know who I am ?”
The traffic warden radioed “I have a bloke here who doesn`t know who he is.
Final word on the Hilton story is that he clearly behaved like a d**khead, and should apologise if he hasn’t done so already. Not sure it speaks to any greater character flaw than a short fuse, and I don’t think it particular matters in the great scheme of things.
Everything else is just politics- though I’m surprised Labour have waited until now to plant the story.
O/T: As mentioned on R5L, this is the picture of Britain in the grip of the snow…
http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/?2010007-0107/GreatBritain.A2010007.1150.1km.jpg
re 141 to be fair the Met Office were predicting an 80% chance of an average or mild winter in October, and repeated this in November. I imagine it takes some time to order in large supplies of salt. The Head of the Met Office has just had a performance related bonus as well and gets more than the PM. Oh and to add to it all they’ve now got round to publicising the December data on the Met Office website and it confirms that the cooling trend in Central England continued in 2009.
Do we expect the follow up Yougov/Sun poll to be out tonight or tomorrow night . Much to my surpeise I was polled today first political survey from Yougov for over 2 years .
166 antifrank
Agreed. I fully understand the sentiment though.
About a year ago, I had the misfortune to regularly travel using Worst Late Western on the weekends. I had a saver ticket which allows you to return any time during a month, but a friend gave me a lift back so didn’t use the return portion.
The next time I bought a ticket, I got a return as it was only £1 or so more than a single, and I was making relatively regular journeys anyway. When the ticket inspector came, I made the mistake of going through the tickets in my rail wallet, trying to find the ticket with the earlier expiry date, for obvious logical reasons. He accused me basically of fraud - of trying to re-use tickets. He confiscated my old ticket (which apparently he is allowed to do) and said some rather unpleasant things. He also said he could run the ticket through his machine right there and then, to “prove” it had been used. When I called his bluff repeatedly, though, he refused to actually do it.
Needless to say, I was less than impressed, especially when he refused to give his name so I could make an official complaint. His reason? I had the audacity to question his competence, which apparently made me “threatening”.
I was steaming angry at that point, and I don’t think I am naturally an angry person. I can well imagine how someone could lose their rag.
I ended up with £50 in train vouchers eventually though, after some angry phone calls to their (rubbish) customer service line.
177 Prof Nutt was employed by us to advise us on drug policy.
Why should he not say what he believes to be true? It is something I have heard from other medical professionals and from people who work with drug misusers.
If a Government minister disagrees with him, he should do some research and marshal some arguments.
Personally I expect “experts” employed on the public purse to be free to tell us what they believe to be true. It is then up to politicians to take political decisions about the policy they promulgate and the actions they take.
O/T 58. I have it on good authority that the Spotlight expose on the swish family Robinson will focus on the fact that the 20 year-old Iris was having an affair with was the recipient of substantial amounts of public money to open a cafe/bar business in Belfast, and that Mrs. Robinson lobbied on his behalf…
Rumours also circulate that yesterday’s statement was a charade, contrasting Peter’s apparent joviality at the time of the incident, with his mournful demeanour yesterday.
163. tim January 7th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
“How did Hilton get the job?
Bet he went to public school.
158 - Substance please or walk the dog.”
I’m not one of those that think you’re the anti-Christ, but that is a lovely juxtaposition
179-Richard- That was exactly my point when I said that “after all, Brown never made this promise before”. I should have put a smile at the end!
172 - Coulson targetted - Attack failed, Osbourne targetted - Attack failed, Hilton targetted - even more pathetic than the Hague failed attacks.
Next parking tickets may well be used at this rate to use against the Conservatives, it is so pathetic.
Labour should remember that Guido held back some of the smeargate revelations to use during/near the election…….
181
Please. Somebody give Gabble an enamel badge and Hornby Train Set to control.
181 - We all deserve respect. Those who serve the public should not be put on any pedestal. Too many of those who serve the public, from MPs to rail staff, seem to think that the public in fact serve them.
Respect is a two-way street. When rail staff treat members of the public like scum and voice the wish to push them under a train, they deserve strong criticism. When MPs scam their expenses, they deserve every rotten tomato that gets lobbed their way.
190
If someone hasn’t done it here goes.
And here’s to you, Mrs. Robinson
Jesus loves you more than you will know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson
Heaven holds a place for those who pray
(Hey, hey, hey…hey, hey, hey)
Because they bloody well will.
The mere fact that the triumvirate of trolls gets so excited over a non story from yesteryear is so desperately sad.
Anyhow, the latest botched coup attempt has again highlighted a “fractured and dysfunctional Labour party” all ‘news’ stories concerning Labour’s governance of the country will be written through an assumption of a cabinet in turmoil.
The timing couldn’t have been worse for Gordon just three months out from a general election, as they say, POGWAS.
Trying to catch up on the threads here still….
642. Richie Rich
“We all know the kind of people the Tories stand for. Humble multi-millionaires and the privileged upper-classes who have never done a real day’s work in their lifetime.”
It was the Tories that pointed out to Brown the day after his budget that the removal of the 10p tax rate would unfairly affect the lowest paid workers. They continued to point this out for a year but Brown still did it anyway.
……and you still want to vote Labour ??!!??!!??
181. Gabble January 7th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
“I think people who serve the public deserve respect …”
What pious nonsense is that? People who work for train companies serve train companies, not the public.
Train companies, and their employees, put far more energy into “revenue assurance” than delivering a reliable and safe service. “W*nker” is far too polite a term for them.
Brr
”
While extreme winter weather in parts of Europe, Asia and the US has brought normal life to a virtual standstill for millions of people, many other inhabited places manage to function where such sub-zero temperatures are routine.
In the north-eastern Russian Republic of Sakha (Yakutia), the village of Oymyakon is commonly called the coldest populated place on Earth. Situated in an area of Siberia nicknamed “Stalin’s Death Ring” (a former destination for political exiles), Oymyakon boasts an average winter temperature of -45C, with a one-time world record low of -71.2C.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8445831.stm
184: ‘I’m surprised Labour have waited until now to plant the story.’
Quite possibly it was given to the press a few days ago as part of a plan to tarnish Dave’s election launch. However, out of the blue came the coup attempt and the story’s been overshadowed. I imagine Cameron is pleased.
104.
Why would a man who already knows the voters think he’s vain have that poster done?”
I think it’s disgraceful that people are suggesting that Khammereon’s been airbrushed. e’s ‘ardly any ‘air to brush!
181
ah the commissars plea - I have a uniform !
Respect is earned, you have to work for it.
Pertinent CiF comment on the snow coup
WokinghamChris
7 Jan 2010, 7:43PM
My, my.
This is a VERY stormy teacup.
181: ‘I think people who serve the public deserve respect and if, in the course of their duties, they, for instance, ask a passenger to produce a valid ticket or ask a passenger to stand back from the platform edge for their own safety, they should be heeded rather than ignored or abused’
Two self important people having an argument with each other should be a source of amusement not political point scoring.
ARS poll alert
http://www.visioncritical.com/2010/01/large-majority-of-britons-would-rely-on-scanners-at-uk-airports/
Unfortunately the British public seem to think that body scanners at airports are a good idea.
“Straw did have a conversation with Hoon on Tuesday night, the eve of the move against Gordon Brown, raising questions about the claim that there were no discussions between the plotters and cabinet ministers. But the plot was not mentioned as Hoon and Straw, defence and foreign secretary during the Iraq war, discussed their imminent appearance before the Chilcott inquiry.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/07/plotters-against-brown-hoon-hewitt
I thought Chancellor Brown told his PM to go, several times.
208 fr
PM Blair retorted that Chancellor Brown should grow.
Regrettably there was a bust up.
“There is a fact here that we must all face: whoever is in government after the next general election will have to cut public spending… The fact is that this Government are being driven not by the needs of the economy and the medium and long-term best interests of the British people, but by the needs of the Labour party and the insistence of the Prime Minister and the Schools Secretary that the scale of the fiscal problem, the challenge of dealing with it and the true price of not dealing with it are to be concealed at all costs from the British public until after polling day. No price is too high to pay, provided the bill does not arrive until 7 May. No burden is too heavy to bear if it is the Prime Minister’s successor who will bear it.
“That is the most systematically reckless, cynical and dishonest strategy for dealing with a fiscal crisis that anyone in the House will be able to recall.”
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/parliament/2010/01/philip-hammond-attacks-labour-for-pursuing-the-most-systematically-reckless-cynical-and-dishonest-st.html
It is largely a matter of context. Before New Labour everyone behaved like Hilton all the time. But standards have risen sharply since New Labour acted on their key insight that having all the pubs open all the time would convert the great British public into picturesque French peasants, spinning out a single glass of the local vin rouge and a dish of olives to last a whole evening while enjoying a game of chess or petanques, or deconstructing the latest anthropological insight of Levi-Strauss.
In this utopia of courtesy and decorum (televised most nights in Police Camera Action It All Goes Off In Some Benighted City Centre Yet Again) unreformed oafishness of Hilton’s kind obviously stands out. I think we should seek to educate rather than to condemn.
So Britain is now actually under an ice-cap (like China, France, Korea, Germany, Poland, and half of America), so what? The warmists on the Independent have told us to stop being parochial and recall that yesterday it was 10 degrees in Rome, when on average it should be………
nine.
Global warming? it’s unstoppable, I tell ye.
BTW just watched Paranormal Activity. The most genuinely scary horror film since Blair Witch. Like Blair Witch, it cost literally $50k (or thereabouts) to make, and has made $200million.
Kudos. The age of democratic movie-making is upon us. Now almost anyone can make a decent film. Except Roger, obviously.
Plotters, or just slow to endorse Gordon Brown? The five linked to Hoon-Hewitt lunge against PM
Five cabinet ministers were named, along with David Miliband, as possible supporters of Geoff Hoon and Patricia Hewitt. All denied the claim
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/07/plotters-against-brown-hoon-hewitt
210.
““That is the most systematically reckless, cynical and dishonest strategy for dealing with a fiscal crisis that anyone in the House will be able to recall.””
Mr Hammond seems to be bigging GideO up here. Single-handed?
It was always going to end in tears…… If only he’d kept his inner circle to old school chums and not looked to his failed career at Carlton he wouldn’t have had to spend his time defending loud mouthed vulgarians like Hilton and Coulson.
C4 news was fun!
3 senior ministers tried to extract assurances of changed behaviour.
They decided to stick with him because it would be ‘too bloody a process to get rid’.
More movement from backbenchers and the cabinet would have put ‘the skids’ under Gordon
On Hilton. Story no doubt stored in the Labour file to release when needed. Serious question, is that the best they have?
Attempt was pathetic. My hubby looked up when the email was read out; he liked it! Going on about Tories being all about transparency and decentralisation. Cracking stuff.
ICM are polling today.
Jeff Randall in good form - asks the questions journalists should be asking.
In the playground of British politics, boomed the Mirror, Mr Hoon is a blundering dunce and Miss Hewitt a hectoring nanny. They are “stupid”, “mad”, “bonkers” and “crazy”, Westminster’s Dumb and Dumber.
No quibbles, there – that just about sums them up. Unfortunately, it also prompts a question: how did these clowns manage to secure top jobs at the heart of government for an entire decade?
Having demonstrated incompetence and perfidy, they are unfit to polish the Cabinet table, much less sit around it. Yet while Mr Hoon was running Defence (1999-2005) and Transport (2008-09), Miss Hewitt was in charge of Trade and Industry (2001-05) and the NHS (2005-07). No wonder we’re in such a mess
Hilton - 2008. 2008.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/uganda/6944292/Human-sacrifices-on-the-rise-in-Uganda-as-witch-doctors-admit-to-rituals.html
On current trends say 6-8 years before it’s known in certain circles that this sort of thing is happening here semi-regularly e.g once a year, and 12-16 years before it gets admitted even slightly in some part of the media-political complex though never the BBC.
Open borders + mass immigration + multicult + amoral relativism + poverty = a society made up of all the worst bits of all the constituent cultures.
“David Miliband under fire for lukewarm Gordon Brown backing
(…)One rebel said Miliband had done huge damage to his reputation. “He has had four or so chances now and each time he hints he will move against the prime minister but fails to act. As a result he will not win the leadership after the election. The person who will benefit from this is Ed Miliband. At least he was clear.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/07/david-miliband-gordon-brown-labour
Good to see the Labour herd marching in lock-step over the Hilron story, like a gang of, er, autoeroticists.
The Prime Minister was all smiles with Peter Mandelson at the London launch of the economic growth strategy, this afternoon.
But yesterday, after a phone call around 8am, the two didn’t speak again. All day.
Wasn’t Peter Mandelson meant to be the key strategist, right-hand man, Deputy Prime Minister in all but name?
Yesterday morning’s speech by Peter Mandelson was supposed to mark a drawing of a line under the cooling of relations between him and the Prime Minister but things are still clearly not great. What this makes you realise is just how well aligned some of the stars were for yesterday’s attempted coup.
http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/2010/01/07/peter-and-gordon-what-really-happened/
I still stick by my comments this morning that we may be reading too much personality and not enough policy into this:
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/01/07/whats-the-future-for-the-snow-plot-six/#comment-1374296
The quote from Darling could be read in the same light if one puts this emphasis on the words:
“As far as I’m concerned we should be concentrating on the business of government and getting through the recession”
i.e. stop sticking No 10’s nose in the Treasury’s business.
198
Errr of course the Tories became converts to the 10 tax rate, it was first described as a silly gimmick
In 1999 Gordon Brown introduced the 10p starting tax rate. I was working for William Hague that year, helped him prepare his Budget reply and kept the notes he used in the Commons as a memento.
On top of his prepared remarks he scribbled “but abolished 20p rate”. And he began his reply by pointing this out.
In the press coverage the next day, my colleague Peter Riddell duly noted this. Most other coverage missed it out.
“Everyone’s a Winner” said the Sun on March 10 1999, lauding Brown new starting rate. The Chancellor “took The Sun’s advice” the paper trumpeted. The new rate “was just like our Everyone’s A Winner Game, in which all our 10 million readers are guaranteed a prize”.
“Three Cheers for Gordon”, “Thank Gord” and “Brilliant but devious” were among the headlines garnered by the 10p rate.
And now? He’s abolished it. You’d think there be some words of criticism. Some acceptance that the idea of the 10p tax rate was a silly gimmick to start off with, as his critics (like the IFS) argued at the time.
But no. Abolishing is described as a tax cut (which it isn’t), just as introducing it was described as a tax cut (which it wasn’t).
Ridiculous.
From the Fink.
Well you know what they say about converts.
212. I have to say it didn’t scare me though it was a good film. And it was fun being in a cinema with lots of shrieking girls
Hilton called a railway jobsworth a wanchor, not a constable. In 2008. Lowest possible mandatory fixed penalty and a wigging. Not even on the same Laura Norder planet as, say, leaving the scene of an accident. That your car was in while you were driving. And using your mobile.
Next.
216 ICM will presumably be published in the Sunday Telegraph.
The Hilton story (and I’d be happy to see the back of Hilton) is feeble.
219 It’s all part of the joy of diversity.
“Brown to rein in Balls”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/07/gordon-brown-ed-balls-cabinet
The FT published the Hilton emails in full
http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2010/01/the-steve-hilton-strategy-bulletins/
On the whole, they seem very useful and interesting to me - although how important they are to the average MP, I’m not sure.
220 Me - Several journalists seem to be making that point, and it makes sense. So it is rather odd that the betting markets have moved so sharply towards D Miliband.
I wonder if the markets have got this wrong?
(PS sorry for missing your point previously - reading too fast!)
Hilton story: News Sense “Chaff” Rating: 89.6%
Can I smell roses? Ah, Mandy. There you are.
217.
“Miss Hewitt a hectoring nanny”
How much would Caroline Spelman want to have her paid her from public funds?
232: The whole build up to the election will be full of stories about how the fifth cousin twice removed of David Cameron met a man who knew someone who once smoked dope with the likes of Crick and Snow trying to make a big deal about it.
Hilarious, tim leads the thicket over the top re the Hilton story only to be mown down by the massed ranks.
229 “Brown to rein in Balls”
Am I the only one who sees that headline and thinks “Does that involve some Arab-strap-like contraption of leather and chains?”?
Gabble, perhaps Vera Baird’s behaviour when her dog shat on a platform was not the example of a public servant you were searching for.
215. As compared to Gordon Brown, the Father of McBride?
Before you retired in obscurity, Roger, you worked in a kind of bastardised feeble sad peripheral area of prostitutional showbiz, aka advertising, so you know the principle of Never Go On After A Good Act.
This is another aspect of Cameron’s luck. He may inherit a ruined economy, but expectations of British government are now so low, after New Labour, Cammo is almost bound to be seen as doing well. A kind of anti-Obama effect.
As long as Cameron only invades small countries and pointlessly kills fewer than 100,000 people, and as long as he only gives us say, the worst recession since the 1950s, and as long as he only clandestinely lets in 1m illegal immigrants rather than all of Bangladesh, and as long as the deficit he bequeathes will only pauperise us for ONE generation, then he will be seen as, comparatively, a success.
The bar has been set, shall we say, quite low.
150 - Dr Spyn - a 16-month old story.
So tonight’s big story is a bunch of self-gratifiers getting all excited over someone calling someone else a self gratifier?
Yep well I guess that figures somehow…….
Vera Baird’s behaviour dog shat!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237369/Mrs-Bossyboots-law-chief-intimidated-public-Now-housewife-demands-Vera-Baird-apologises.html
241.
“a bunch of self-gratifiers getting all excited over someone calling someone else a self gratifier?”
In terms of level of over-excitement about this relative non-story, the Torybot herd seem way out in front tonight. Perhaps we should ask Iris Robinson in to give them support?
237
I had me doots as I typed that.
231 - The markets have got this completely wrong.
Ed M is where your money should be going.
237.
““Does that involve some Arab-strap-like contraption of leather and chains?”?”
something you are selling on e-bay?
240. So who let that cat out the bag?
Someone has been calling a few favours, the timing is rather too convenient for a 16 month old story to be significant, unless he had been money laundering, smuggling drugs, buying exotic cheeroots, or hiring Latvian hookers for one of Call Me Dave’s acquaintences.
“You cannot hope to bribe or twist (thank God!) the British journalist. But, seeing what the man will do unbribed, there’s no occasion to.”
243. Wage Slave I bow to your evident expertise in such areas!
hmmm, so its ok to arrest a tory for swearing, but not for the deputy labour leader for driving off after an accident whilst on her phone!!! the animal farm law comes to mind ‘all animals are equal but some are more equal than others’ Indeed, as with the secretary general this seems to be a running theme for labour.
216 - One thing we have in common Sally is that we both expect Camerons inner circle to be a qualid arrogant bunch, hence your constant refrain of “its not a story” when it turns out to be true.
248.
Ejaculatte sin rancour as Woy used to say.
231- I can’t talk much about betting markets, because I don’t bet but maybe it is because we read about him wanting to be prime minister since, well, forever. Meanwhile we are not pretty sure of others intentions. Most of us think that Mandelson will have a big role to play in the next leadership election, and there are several reports that he supports Miliband. And as the Guardian states in the end of the article:
“Political reputations rise and fall with extraordinary speed in the world of 24-hour news. So Miliband’s brief statement yesterday, and the sonorous silence that preceded it, were probably ill-judged. But the damage may not be irretrievable. When the open leadership contest eventually comes, he can still win, although the task has become that much harder.”
Didn’t Harman getting clocked for doing 99 mph by the polis, unless I am very much mistaken the penalty for 100 mph is more significant.
Must have been a splendid piece of kit issued to the traffic polis.
234
to save additional public funds perhaps the Kinnocks could pay her from their loose change.
250.
I trust you have nothing in common Sally! This is not the Spectator site, y’know
246 Why, you interested wage slave?
Just pay the Buy It Now price and be done, you cheapskate…
239 I am sure he will crawl under that bar with ease and take Ted Heath mantle.
BeebNews now twittering Hilton. Sigh.
Toenails bin in?
Saw this and thought it might be of interest to punters. I’ve no idea what, if any, impact it might have.
Strict new rules for online bookmakers
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fd666cc0-fbc4-11de-9c29-00144feab49a.html
249. You know I’d bet the transport policeman didn’t realize he was ‘arresting a Tory’. He probably thought he was arresting a normal person.
EDM? tim, an early day motion? try senokot.
239
The bar has been set, shall we say, quite low.
Doesn’t mean that Dave couldn’t take it lower, with Hilton running the show its certainly possible.
Railway anecdote alert: A few weeks ago a train I was due to catch came into the platform late and passengers were given precisely two minutes from the announcement of the platform to the train’s departure. To make it worse the train was second in line down a very long platform. A whole group of people, many with luggage, were forced to sprint across the station, get through the barrier and run down the platform. In the face of a group of running passengers the guard waved the train to leave. The woman in front of me shouted something rather worse than w****ker. About half a dozen people failed to catch the train. I and one other complained but received no sympathy. Instead we were treated to a lot of pious statements about having to make the trains run on time.
122. Thanks Buncco - our man on the spot. Very interesting.
219. Slightly ironic and dark humor that NHS organ donor advert is at bottom of page in ads by google!
Keep it up Roger, make tim proud!
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/01/07/anti-gay-mp-iris-robinsons-lover-believed-to-have-been-under-21/
Been away for an hour or two. What’s this Hilton business? Skimmed the thread and it looks like he called a rozzer a naughty word. Is that it, or has he secretly been stealing garden gnomes?
wageslave. We have nothing in common.
He is just trying to build his part by being my buddy. Bit like Brown does with Obama.
Waugh tweet on C4 Hilton story: ‘Hilarious. Classic.’ I would think that’s what you’d call professional irony from the man who breaks more stories in a day than C4News in, oh, about 16 months.
266 - he called a rozzer a naughty word in 2008. That’s what’s wetting the bridge-dwellers’ wet bits.
245. I can’t see it. A bit too frenetic to be leader.
Has brown resigned yet?
Where’s the election?!!
267 - You’re more Palin than Obama, dear.
266 No, he called a station official a ‘timmy’ and they called the police.
266 Dave does`nt like anti social behaviour especially directed at the boys in blue.
Why is Paul Waugh only deputy political editor of a local free paper when he’s one of the best political journalists out there?
267.
“He is just trying to build his part by being my buddy”
I know he’s very trying. But to put on your good self to help him build his part is more Specator than PB.com.
Not sure who loses out the most with this bum deal!
267 - You’re mor Sarah than Barack
249 ryans
I just love all you Tories (the party of loranorder) complaining that one of yours is subject to the law. Had he been someone from a council estate, you would have been demanding that he be birched!
269, ****! Are you serious, Raven? Shit, shit shit! This is going to bring down the Conservatives…. Cameron’s going to have to resign. ****!!!
…..
Look, if people are going to post trivialities, could they at least make them either witty or interesting?
271.
“Where’s the election?!!”
Apallentree between Tim and Sarree.
May I take this opportunity to apologise for the use of insulting language @272 to an official [of the Labour Party]
Will people be arrested for drawing a moustache on Cameron the poster ?
I was on the last bus one night years ago (Spart era, well pre CCTV and deffo pre Boris). Got on at the Aldwych, heading for Mortlake. Just me.
The conductor said ‘Ang on to yer at, mite, we’re not stoppin.’ And off we went. All the way to Mortlake without stopping, through a red light ‘n all. Fast.
It was Proms season and there were crowds still waiting for a bus outside the Albert Hall in the rain, hours after the concert ended. We shot past them, to howls of suggestions for increasing the population from the ratepayers of the Republic of Spart. The bus crew had a bet on.
Memorable.
188 I started a journey on an off peak ticket but due to signalling fault delays in that service I arrived at the main station for a change in trains just inside peak time.
The guard at the barrier would not let me pass and insisted I upgraded. I stated if I do that the train will go and I will miss it can I do this on the train.He refused. When I tried to press the point he threatened to ban me from travellling so I had to gond upgrade the ticket.In the meantime the train left and I sat on on a cold station for 3 hours for the next service ironically then putting me back into off peak time. The next service was delayed as well.
So I can understand Hilton as they are mostly Little Hitlers running a substandard service at huge cost to the ticket holder.
It was actually their fault in the first place which is what made me angry yet I still had to pay full fare to travel in off peak time and got to my destination hours after I should have without any compensation.
276, don’t be ridiculous. The council estate chavs will all be exterminated by the new dalek army Cameron will use the NHS budget for.
According to Kathy Newman, Steve Hilton is “a common criminal”. As evidence they showed clips of the Hilton character from In the Thick of It, to show what a bad man he is. Funny thing is when I was at University lefties took pride in shouting rude words at the law.
old nat. Not sure anyone complained about him being subject to the law. In fact, we are looking forward to the day when we are all equal under it.
Well, at least this Hilton chap actually had a valid ticket. When Mrs Blair was caught fare dodging not only did she get off scott free but the inspector was sacked!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1379966/Sack-for-ticket-inspector-who-fined-Cherie-Blair-10.html
279.
When zero tolerance tim is made Justice Secretary you’ll be going down for a very long stretch, madam.
276. No no, I think he shouldve been fined, not arrested!! And lets get our priorities right… drivng off from an accident which was caused whilst she was on the phone!! Now, if you advocate arrest for swearing then surely you must advocate arrest for that!
Politics Home seems to have removed its free Blog feed. Can anyone confirm if this is policy under its new ownership?
285. Morris..
I thought the ‘Lansley Solution’ was still under wraps….
289. Didn’t Blunkett get us the taxpayer to pay the train fare for his bit on the side?
In terms of politics this hilton thing is irrelevent. If the BBC/sky/channel4 etc push it then I am sure Cameron will get the majority of the commuter vote straight away.
293, ah yes, Lansley. I shall enjoy feeding him to my pirate shark. And not just any shark.
…..
The enormo-shark!
Pirate? Jesus. I was going for ‘pet’. Homophonic dyslexia, or the dangers of typing in three windows at once? *You* decide.
287
No change there then. ‘Kill the pigs.’ Isn’t that the left’s war cry? Oh - and ‘keep the fascist bastards out of the schoolroom’. Something like that. We’ll be hearing it all again this autumn, won’t we?
Did Dave have plastic surgery to escape the Transport Police?
287 In 1984 it was positively compulsory for chippy miners to shout abuse at all and sundry, especially the police. Like Hilton, the miners came out on the receiving end of a hosing.
The system works!
So Labour plan on fighting the election that Maggie could have fought had she somehow beaten Tarzan and then gone to the country in 1991…. OUCH
Of course, swingback could save them.
285. Batch file - my sister had a very similar experience to yours. She was travelling to Liverpool and it was snowing. She’d bought a ticket in November that was off peak, but this weekend they changed the peak hours, and they deemed her ticket was no longer valid. They wouldn’t even let her upgrade, but forced her to wait for hours. By the time she got to Liverpool it was gridlocked due to the weather. I too am on Hilton’s side - there are a lot of w***ers throwing their weight around in a pretty vicious way.
I’m surprised that Hilton was arrested at all. The British Transport Police have long been known as the Ghurkas by the rest of the Police because they never take prisoners.
288 SallyC
You may be right. Slipshod language (not you, obviously) is a feature of extremist posting, regrettably.
“we are looking forward to the day when we are all equal under it.”
I really love you idealists!
The Attorney General got a £5,000 penalty for employing an illegal immigrant but we were told that was just like a parking ticket and not a good reason for the senior law officer of the Crown, with a seat in cabinet, to resign.
Obviously a party aide calling a ticket inspector a wanker is a lot more serious than that, and the Leader of the Opposition should resign. Or something.
290.
As someone in the party of Damian Green, I am well aware that interfering with a Labour Party official in the course of delivering propaganda can get you arrested.
301 too many national railways and LT employees forget thattheir job is TO SERVE THE PUBLIC!
Too many of them have a ‘not my problem guv’ approach when the trains are f**ked up!
We need to hear from the Spiv Dems on the subject of Hilton. Shouldn’t they be deploying Oakeshott at this moment to lift his skirts and shriek at the inhumanity of it all?
I wonder whereabouts the BBC 10 O’Clock News will feature Mr Hilton’s infractions? I reckon it’ll get top billing! (And Cricky will certainly have something to say about it on Newsnight.)
308 Stark Dawning
The spin on the 6 is generally far more pro-Labour than that on the 10 for some reason - though obviously there are exceptions.
It’s annoying because slightly more people watch the 6 than the 10.
305 SallyC
The family of Willie McRae might suggest that worse than that can happen to you, interfering with the policies of a Tory Government.
299 But the Maggies boot boys call was associated with their 30% wage rise.
Think Grayling thinks a special case will be needed again for public order the next few years.
For those of a sensitive disposition. Do not click this link
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2798635/Mans-penis-gets-stuck-in-a-pipe.html
Jackie Ashley (for it is she) has an amusing article @CIf, it starts…
“It’s a Tory plot. What other explanation can there be?”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/07/gordon-brown-labour-leadership
301
I know a retired DCI in the Transport Police. (Pre- and through privatisation.) He says he was always too busy with big-time industry-insider fraud to have time to take passengers prisoner, which meant a vast and irritating fuss about not much when he was chasing £ hundreds of millions.
The rail business trades in eye-watering quantities of thievable valuables… construction equipment & materials, shedloads of fare-money, bank loans, credit documents, IT, etc., etc., and the accounts could hide battleships.
Where there’s brass and complexity, there’s a den of thieves. And the old bill.
307. Isn’t it a job for Norman the Pure ?
I think you tories are overdoing the Hilton story. He apologised and paid his fine. The End.
“tories led by bullies” - not exactly news, is it?
312
316 yawn
309: ‘The spin on the 6 is generally far more pro-Labour than that on the 10 for some reason…’
Good point. Yesterday, the 6 O’Clock News put a story about some snow disruption ahead of a high-level plot to unseat the British prime minister. By 10, however, the coup was given priority.
319, don’t they have separate production teams for reasons entirely unrelated to wasting taxpayers’ money on unnecessary jobs?
For those worried and fretting about the cold weather, here’s an extract from a CNN news report.
And remember the temperatures quoted are in Fahrenheit:
Atlanta, Georgia (CNN) — Much of the nation was in a deep freeze Thursday, with many temperatures plunging to record lows and snow blowing from the Midwest into the South.
The expected high in Bismarck, North Dakota, was minus 11, with a wind chill as low as minus 35. The wind chill could reach 52 degrees below zero overnight, forecasters said.
The arctic blast that began last weekend has been blamed for at least seven deaths, and snow and ice were putting a damper on air travel.
You know, this may be the year when those melting glaciers that all the warmers talk about, stop shrinking and start growing again.
This
312
Picture the subs’ faces:
‘It was a very delicate operation that required a very steady hand and the crew was worried about things getting too hot’
I must make my position on Hilton’s name calling of a public official. I pay my taxes and expect officials to doff their caps and wait for me with bowed heads.
name calling is NOT acceptable. instant decapitation is the only correct course of action.
And baby eating is not a crime . It should be made a national sport: like fox hunting. And shooting Labour Party Members - on sight. Or even suspected Labour Party members.
No more namby pamby politics..
I wonder whereabouts the BBC 10 O’Clock News will feature Mr Hilton’s infractions? I reckon it’ll get top billing! (And Cricky will certainly have something to say about it on Newsnight.)
by Stark Dawning January 7th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Already there on the main page running on the breaking news ticker
with a link to this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8447239.stm
They are not even pretending to be impartial now and its up a lot quicker than the ’snowplot’
316 Gabble
the problem for you now is every time you throw a slur you are just inviting incoming flak at 6 times the volumes.
Do you really want to talk about bullying and get Brown, Campbell and Balls anecdotes for the next 2 days?
Your party has dragged itself into the gutter and spin now only ivites readers’ best stories on how low you have sunk. For incompetence, sleaze and arrogance you have all the best players no-one else can get near you.
It is highly amusing to hear various Labour propagandists coming on here near the top of the thread to desperately deny what we all know to be true - that Brown is despised by most of the PLP and half the cabinet and they want him out.
And it is also highly amusing to hear the biased BBC invite on various Labour Party figures to put up a smokescreen of nonsense and obfuscation, allowing them to spout irrelevant abuse at the Conservatives, instead of answering the questions asked!
Nothing is more ludicrous than their absurd claims that Brown did well at PMQ’s on Wednesday - it is like they are reading from a crib sheet. Brown actually looked rather constipated, spoke utterly incoherently, had bags under his eyes swollen to deformity, and was utterly humiliated by Cameron’s point ‘At least when I say “Darling I love you”, I mean it’ - drawing howls of laughter from the Chamber and even made the Labour benches smile. Of course, it had a double meaning. It was a brilliant joke (more on this another day).
Never has it looked so much like the BBC News channel coverage should be widely distrusted. It attracts unprecedented levels of complaints of bias from license fee taxpayers that fund it. The BBC News appears to take it’s cues from a Damian McBride type figure at 10 Downing Street. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a Labour ‘political commissar’ in every studio and editing room. Even Andrew Marr hinted that this appeared to the be case.
Our TV news increasingly resembles that of a third world tin-pot dictatorship. When outright lies pass for news something is seriously wrong in our country.
Let us hope the newspapers value their paying readers more than the TV news values it’s coerced taxpaying viewers.
At a time like this we have to look to other sources to tell the truth, e.g. Iain Martin at the WSJ, Mike Smithson here, or but for its need to finally accept that the overwhelming majority of it’s readers loathe the Labour Party under Brown, and distrust this government.
The truth the TV News is trying to hide?
We have a clear constitutional crisis. The PM no longer commands a majority in the House of Commons, because his own party wants to have a secret ballot to confirm that he no longer has authority to lead it. Brown refuses to accept such a secret ballot because he knows he will lose it. He rudderless, pathetic and powerless.
This is a crisis.
Brown cannot be allowed to carry out such a brazen act of dictatorship, which breaches our constitution. The PM’s authority is solely based on his majority in Parliament. If he doesn’t have it we have a serious crisis.
The Queen needs to intervene to resolve it. She should dismiss Brown and call an immediate election.
These are the dying days of a lame-duck dictatorship. Brown was never elected to lead Labour or this country. He should be ashamed of the dictatorship he has forced on this country.
Labour or the Queen, should end this terrible regime led by Brown.
‘Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem.’
326 Alanbrooke
“For incompetence, sleaze and arrogance you have all the best players no-one else can get near you.”
I’m surprised that you are so defeatist. I’m sure the Tories can do better - duck houses was a start, but now you have the opportunity to do better, I’m confident you will outdo all expectations.
324.
old nat,
I idealise Scots men aswell. I am sure they all look like this, except on Aran*.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93076495@N00/369361989/
[ *I've been to Aran. I'm an idealist. I'm not blind.]
309 That is so true. 6 o’clock news is a nightmare.
330 SallyC
Alas, Aran is an Irish island.
Arran is in my constituency - and of course that guy would be considered a sad pastiche of a man here.
Interesting article, quote from Roger Bootle, QE should be extended and interest rates reduced to zero, never thought he’d say that!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/100002891/bank-of-england-the-calm-before-the-storm/
328 Oldnat
don’t be so modest, I’m sure when the time comes we’ll find out just how much the Scottish Nasty Party have to offer.
The fact that it’s all clanny and hushed up doesn’t stop it leaking out when one of your boys gets his nose out of joint and spills the beans. The SNP is the DUP without the religious bits.
331 SallyC
I generally don’t think there is a conscious bias generally - it is more a general outlook together with a hunger for exclusives. Nick Robinson isn’t biased, just lazy and too willing to swallow the last thing anyone has told him instead of properly investigating.
Reeta Chakrabarti is one of the exceptions; an example of a reporter who allows their political bias to compromise the quality of reporting. Her reports are truly awful.
334 Alanbrooke
I’m absolutely sure that you meant to say something in that post. I look forward to your next attempt.
Clue - clarity and accuracy make posts more intelligible and persuasive.
The best bit of the State Broadcasters report is this part. I have added in the brackets the missing word that should also be there
“A Tory spokesman confirmed the incident - details of which have (CONVENIENTLY) only now come to light - took place at the end of the party’s 2008 autumn conference in Birmingham.”
The speed this was on on the site was obscene comapared to the delays yesterday
I remember the time when railway staff were courteous and helpful.
The the Tories privatised them.
Now they are just looking to get as much cash out of people as they can.
That is what Conservatism means. Unfortunately.
And in this case a Top Tory (insider not elected) had to pay up.
What a shame!
337, even more impressive when you consider the journalists were typing one-handed.
336 Oldnat
ah nice attempt at a putdown but no prize. Try quoting John Knox and see if it works.
338 Oh yes. I remember the union leaders in the 70s. They were the personification of reasonableness and good manners.
Crick has a little bit on the plot. Not much, but it looks like Straw is not as clean as he claims:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/michaelcrick/2010/01/straw_in_the_wind_over_robinso.html
336 oldnat
belltowers to you
Have you noticed how ever since Cameron admitted he ‘messed up’ on Monday over married couples taxation, it’s become a non-story?
338 PRICELESS Blame it on Maggie ROTFLMAO
My god is there nothing you lot won’t blame on your idol of hatred?
Looks like any type of Tory government is a recipe for chaos…
One final difference in the parliamentary terrain is worth noting. Any incoming Conservative government will find that things are very different in the upper House from when they were last in power.
The 1999 House of Lords Act brought about changes in composition and, as a consequence, behaviour in the Lords. The abolition of (most of) the hereditary peers removed the inbuilt Conservative majority and created a hung chamber, in which no one party or grouping has a majority. In itself, this would have been a significant change, but it has also resulted in a change in behaviour. The prereform House of Lords, conscious that its legitimacy was limited by the presence
of so many hereditary peers, frequently practised a self-denying ordinance, pulling back from ma ny confrontations with the government. But with the hereditaries largely gone, those peers that remain have seen themselves as more legitimate and have become more assertive than before. The belief that the 1999 Act would create a poodle of an Upper Chamber has proved to be much mistaken.
Instead, it created a more representative second chamber, one which is
permanently hung, and one which is willing to stand up to, and regularly defeat, the government of the day.
The same problems will face Conservative ministers and whips, as they try to get legislation through the Lords. No future Conservative government will inherit the overwhelmingly Conservative Upper Chamber of the past. Whatever its majority in the Commons, in order to win votes in the Lords, the government need to persuade at least one of the other party groupings to support them. One fear from some Labour peers is that the crossbench peers will back the Conservatives, thus creating a Conservative-supporting majority in the Lords. The combined
crossbench and Conservative strength comes to over half the House, and enough – in theory – to deliver victory on most votes. However, detailed analysis of the voting shows that the crossbenchers rarely exert much of an influence of the outcome of votes. This is both because their turnout is relatively lower than that of members of the party groups, and because the group does not vote as a bloc, but splits its votes. As a result, in terms of their voting, the crossbenchers punch below their weight. (If they have any impact, it is by voice – as a result of their members’ expertise on particular subjects – rather than vote). Rather, the key voting group is the Liberal Democrats, who are the swing voters of the second chamber. The Conservatives will need to reach agreement with the Liberal Democrats if they are to get their legislation through.
http://www.revolts.co.uk/PhilCowleyPQ.pdf
“I remember the time when railway staff were courteous and helpful”
It must have been before my time.
No, they weren´t, Sally. Of course Union Leaders were, and are, another species. Grossly over remunerated, over pwerful, etc Een over politicised.
I am talking about people.
People were decent before Thatcher got to work on them.
338 - I thought you were in your early 20s?
346 Just create 100 or so Conservative peers.
346 - What’s stopping Cameron from creating 400 new life peers?
“(…)One Blairite former minister who had backed previous efforts to oust Mr Brown explained his refusal to sign up to a fresh revolt, saying: “I’ve done my bit and I’ve taken my hit.” He added: “This time it was up to the Cabinet to show it had some backbone — and we all saw the result. What I won’t do is anything that lets Gordon and his cronies say I helped to lose the election. If Labour is defeated only one man should be blamed.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6980019.ece
Born after privatision, eh Sean Far?
348 I doubt if people pre-1979 were any better or worse than they are post-1979.
353 A long time before it.
340 Alanbrooke
Don’t be silly Ninian Wintzet was a far better debater than Knox.
346 we’ll get rid of the lords if necessary - dont need it!
351. HM Queen?
“Brown forced to pay high price for Cabinet’s short-term loyalty
Gordon Brown was forced to surrender a string of concessions to senior Cabinet ministers to secure his leadership after Wednesday’s coup attempt, The Times has learnt.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6980037.ece
346 - 346 - Philip Cowley is an advisor to the Treasury. So he probably doesn’t know anything.
From the same article:
“Nevertheless, Downing Street is still on alert for a possible Cabinet resignation over the weekend as it counts the cost of the concessions. Bob Ainsworth, the Defence Secretary, has been identified as the biggest threat, according to senior Labour MPs. “
343 Batch file
Indeed belltowers is a wonderful example of the commonality of the Lab/Con duality.
People were decent before Thatcher got to work on them.
by Curious January 7th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
Perhaps you can explain to me then why people were being arrested during the blitz in 1940 for looting the dead. Or was that Thatchers fault as well?
356
and Alex Salmond.
359 - the story that keeps on giving.
358 She’ll do as she’s told.
358 we’ll scrap her too if necessary!
358 - Like the way she stopped all the peers Tony Blair created?
354
The idea that people are better or worse because of polticial change either left (?) or right (?) is simply absurd!
367
358 - HM would not stop the elected Government creating peers.
Is the real reason for your swingback theory anti-Tory straw clutching?
358
and forced a Euro referendum before all her powers were given away ?
364 Alanbrooke
Agreed. Alex Salmond is also a better debater than Knox - or even Wintzet.
I’m impressed that you know who Wintzet is, though.
It looks like Rod has moved on from telling us that there will be a hung parliament in the House of Commons to telling us there will be a hung Parliament in the House of Lords
Comment on Toenails site
“19. At 07:18am on 07 Jan 2010, Econoce wrote:
Who else is able to borrow 3.5 billion pounds per week for at least 104 weeks in a row? It’s good for the country that Brown has seen this putsch off.”
Don’t know whether to laugh or cry
369,well you should be pleased with a tory govenment then
338. Maybe I’m lucky but I find that people who work on the railway are generally helpful, courteous and good at their job. Train travel does cost a lot but it’s generally good nowadays, and a lot of that must be down to the people working on the railways. Privatisation did have a very poor start, but things have improved a great deal since Network Rail was created and corrected the biggest mistake.
374
366. There might be a small matter of a second election “victory” before that becomes an eventuality, as George V required of Asquith in 1910…
373
just another Scot arguing french theology in english IIRC
I keep reading comments on ’swing back’. Does it work on global warming too?
381 it was never this cold under the Tories…
381 - No, global warmists believe in Swing Forward
Would appear from recent postings on here that the Conservatives want to reduce the number of elected MP’s by circa 20% but increase the number of unelected Peers by up to 400 , all jobs for Dave’s Toff friends no doubt .
384 - No Mark, I was being ironic, I would like to see a fully elected second chamber. and believe it or not, on a PR basis.
384 - I think the proposed 400 increase in life peers should be taken with a slight pinch of salt…
338
“I remember the time when railway staff were courteous and helpful.”
That would make you somewhere over 80 by my reckoning. I don’t remember a time when railway staff were ever helpful. Certainly not in the time of British Rail anyway.
384 and we’ll arrest all LD MPs!!!!!!
One police van will be sufficient
Mark Senior, sounds like a fab idea. When the LD’s get into power they can reverse all of Dav…….. oh sorry, forget that.
380 Alanbrooke
Well done! Although a bit demeaning to the best advocate for reformed Catholicism in Scotland - and he argued in Scots, not English. Have you read the Crossraguel debates?
385 - 386 - Mr Senior does not ‘do’ humour.
386 - Mark has no salt, only pepper. He prefers its bitterness.
For some reason an awful lot is coming out from the Darling camp now…
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2010/01/darlings-frustration-with-brown.html
Apparently he lobbied Brown on the EU posts to go after the financial posts…
348 I could do one of two things.
a. Point out that union leaders were ‘people’ who were chosen by other ….’people’ and that Mrs T was not responsible for;
- the Indian Mutiny
- the moors murderers
- the poo put through the Windrusher letterboxes
- Oswald Mosely
etc etc
or
b. assume that was a slightly spoofy post and you are actually measuring a full 100% on sanity scale.
384 really? I think you will find a conservative government refreshingly meritocratic. I don’t see anyone in the shadow cabinet who is there because their big brother or husband is or grandfather was.
385 So was I TSE and so do I .
382 It was colder than this in 1963 under the Tories Ave It and it lasted a long time too .
391 - I believe the wonderful Mr Coxall summed up Mr Senior’s posts so wonderfully well
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/20/is-ed-balls-more-vulnerable-than-we-thought/#comment-1317735
392 salt and vinegar.
Did I claim that people were “better” or “worse”? I don´t think I did.
I was talking about the relationship between public employees and the public they served.
I think it was much better (in general) in the good old days.
Thatcher wrecked for ever the idea of service to others. And Major wrecked the railway system.
216.”C4 news was fun!
3 senior ministers tried to extract assurances of changed behaviour.
They decided to stick with him because it would be ‘too bloody a process to get rid’.
More movement from backbenchers and the cabinet would have put ‘the skids’ under Gordon”
SallyC, C4 news was fun tonight. But again I think that they unwittingly missed the story in their own report. I think Darling&Co asked Brown to consider standing down for the good of his party, and he not only declined, but threatened all out civil war instead. And that is why they didn’t take things further yesterday, Gordon threatening damage to his party to stay in No10 while those around him letting him stay to prevent it. It really defies belief that this man has any honour left at all.
Most decent politicians tend to go when they don’t have the confidence of their senior colleagues, and because its better for their party too. Nick Browne in the Whips office did his job of portraying the PLP as behind Brown now, and all these carefully orchestrated moves to be seen on camera slagging off Hoon or ‘leaked; emails and texts criticising them will be his work. Ironic eh? This is the group that planned the round robin letter and start a wave of junior resignations to push Blair out. I honestly don’t think that this party will be left with any respect for itself by the end.
Its all chaff to be honest, Brown will still leg it out the back door when he finally has to make a decision and name a date. In one article today, that uncertainty was alluded too as well.
o/t David Shukman explained how weather must not be confused with climate change on this evening’s news. But here’s how the beeb reported the lack of snow in ski resorts in Winter 2006.
Climate change
Many believe global warming is to blame for the lack of snow.
The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development warned that many low-level resorts could soon be unviable and predicted warmer temperatures in the future.
Oh what a difference a couple of years make.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6185345.stm
396 - What can I say, Us Tories last longer
397
On first sight, this seems like a good idea in Afghanistan - though lots of details still to be fleshed out.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6980088.ece
395 I think the word you were looking for is mediocatic .
390
having grown up in the cross fire between Calvinism and Catholicism surprisingly it wasn’t top of my list. I prefer more modest sects like Wahhibist Islam.
396 - Sweet baby Jesus, Mark Senior and I agree.
I need to
1) Check and see if the world has ended
2) Lie down in a darkened room
17 weeks to go!!!!!!!!!!! Polls close cheerio Labour!!!!
You have to love this in the Times:
“Harriet Harman demanded and received a promise to have more day-to-day control over the election campaign. Labour’s deputy leader also demanded to be treated with more respect from Mr Brown’s staff.”
This country used to govern one half of the world, and terrify the other. And we are reduced to a situation where the deputy head of government has to threaten the Prime Minister into preventing his minions from - what? - humming “get yer t1ts out fer the lads” in her hearing, probably. It doesn’t get much less dignified than this.
396 i have heard of 1963 - did the pier freeze in worthing?
383 - TSE I wasn’t sure whether or not swing back referred to some new trouser design where a gentleman could dress either side.
400 ChristinaD
There’s a wonderful thesis to be written on Brown’s psychological problems and their effects on UK politics.
Kirkcaldy High School’s policy of accelerating the academic progress of a group of bright kids, regardless of their social development has a lot to answer for!
399 - “I think it was much better (in general) in the good old days.”
Curious what exactly do you remembers of pre-Thacherite Britain, bearing in mind you were aged two when she left power..?
I’ve worked out that Brown reads pbc and believes Rod’s swingback theory (in the proper sense of the by-election swingback).
That’s why he’s not calling that by-election: if he calls it and there’s a huge swing against Labour, that could push the average up and allow for a Tory majority. If he holds off, the Tories won’t have an opportunity to push the envelope and get to the majority-winning zone.
It’s kind of like Pratchett’s “reverse phrenology”.
410 Was still living in Blackpool then and the sea froze .
Oh and a snap YouGov after the coup plot started shows a widening of the lead.
As daddy Royle might say ‘Swingback my arse’
400. That’s something we disagree on. I think he will be there at the end. We will soon know.
414 - Well there was a few posts on the last thread wondering if Rod was Gordon Brown.
wibbler 404, as you say at first sight seems a good idea. They could do a lot worse than have a look at this organisation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seabee
411 - That’s why I don’t wear plain trousers anymore.
Sally, you are starting to talk like a demented Tory. And going slightly barmy to boot, in general terms.
Why, I do not know, because Labour has gone into self-destruct mode. You Tories should be open and generous now.
Perhaps the cold is getting to you.
Please don´t flounce off though…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1241392/Binman-forced-council-picking-rubbish.html
416 - David are you teasing again?
414. the Swing tends to be lower in the final months before the election…
416 - ou?
406 Alanbrooke
Still, I was surprised you knew who he was. Even many historians of the arcane debates in 17th century Scotland (OK geeks like me) don’t mention him. Obviously, I only brought him up because you mentioned Knox.
I am not a huge fan of snap polls by Yougov. They went up and down on a daily basis over during ech conference…an old saying about whores draws comes to mind.
400 - It really defies belief that this man has any honour left at all.
He doesn’t, but he has schemed and undermined and briefed against and lied and cheated all his life to get this job. He is bound and determined to keep it as long as he possibly can regardless of the cost to him, his party or his country (in that order). It’s not a question of honour, it’s arrogance, stubbornness, bloody mindedness and a pathological refusal to accept facts he doesn’t like, or opinions with which he disagrees.
He is utterly convinced that he alone is right, can win, and he is generally a self-made man who admires his creator.
I started leafing through Bower’s book again the other day but got so annoyed I had to stop. The gold sales, the raid on pensions, the Internal Revenue handing out benefit payments: let alone his political views, the cost to the country of his character flaws alone is truly staggering.
289 - I think we all know by now that Labour are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us.
Gordon Clown used to crow about the leaks he obtained but as soon as he became pm opposition mp’s could be arrested for receiving leaked documents.
I seem to remember some smearing over that too, who could that have been I wonder?
408 Ave It - four months today, we will be have Cameron in Downing Street.
Rejoice at that news….
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/sun_says/1460642/The-Scottish-Sun-Says.html
415 BBBR ah yes it was Con then! We’ll be back later this year!!!
430 world joy!
17 weeks today and we will be running up and down Piccadilly celebrating the exit polls - Brown will be packing the removal van!!!!!1
421.I call you insane.
You call me barmy and demented.
All in a day’s work on pb.
[...I am sure bloggers were nicer before Thatcher :-)]
424, If you tell him that, maybe he’ll go ahead with the by-election after all. If it’ll get the average down, it’s got to be worth a shot for him
412 Oldnat - Tom Bower has done a pretty good job already…
423 - WOULD I?
Funny enough Tim’s suggestion that the Lib Dems would be a big winner looks to be, erm, wrong.
299 - are you the same tim that takes pops at posters for posting rubbish (in your view)?
can’t be, that would make you a hypocrite.
Got a dog you can walk?
“Harriet Harman ‘encouraged Labour coup against Gordon Brown’
Harriet Harman, Labour’s deputy leader, is being blamed for encouraging an attempted coup against Gordon Brown this week, with David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, also under suspicion of plotting.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/6947739/Harriet-Harman-encouraged-Labour-coup-against-Gordon-Brown.html
426
my main interest is history - mostly German. But I have read histories of Scotland, though regrettably I did find it a bit depressing everyone seems to try and kill the leader before him.
Plus ca change !
415 - Mark I lived in Blackpool too in 1963, an I remember that.
“Gordon Brown offered Geoff Hoon a job days before coup attempt
Geoff Hoon, the former cabinet minister, was offered a job at Nato by Gordon Brown only days before he launched his attempt to oust the Prime Minister, the Daily Telegraph has learned.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/6948021/Gordon-Brown-offered-Geoff-Hoon-a-job-days-before-coup-attempt.html
ITN reporting the poll over last 24 hours has hurt Labour
Tory lead now 9% –> 12%
I think the Tories head back into the ‘thumping majority’ territory at 12 points?
And Clegg = Kinnock (though Kinnock never lost his own seat IIRC)
303 - I once sat on a train near some off duty trasnsport police.
They were using the worst language I have ever heard (and I use Anglo Saxon when required)on a packed train.
These same people would have arrested you or I for that type of language.
Nice poll tonight - “things can only get better” (as long as your not Labour)
442 That is the Sun poll BTW
440 must have been pretty revolting. I spent years travelling up and down to Blackpool. They had issues with the sewage outfall IIRC. I never swam in the sea there, irrespective of the time of year
399
“Thatcher wrecked for ever the idea of service to others.”
Nope. That was wrecked by the unions who thought that the public services were there to provide jobs for their members rather than services to the public.
436 - Nowt on Twitter. Kept secret quite well then… Big question is are the moves minor or at the outer reach of the MOE.
Mind you I’m still not sure of the validity of polls for the next week after the coup and with the weather probably being the big focus…
442. Tory lead now 9% –> 12%
lol.
It was 13% in December.
The fightback starts now.
444 - it must be part of the job:
http://labourbollocks.blogspot.com/2009/03/one-law-for-them.html
435 Tim B
Thanks for the tip. I hadn’t seen that book. I did like this in the Guardian Review of it - “battle-hardened in the hell men call the Scottish Labour party”.
If ITN have it here it is
42/30/16
And it looks like my comments were superseded… Still concerned that this poll may be too close to events, but obviously the red camp are going to be angry and the blue camp happy. Be interesting to see if the ICM in the field backs it up…
401. There is no point arguing with them, they react in the same way a devout religious person reacts.
If you are sick and die, its gods will, if you are sick and get well it is gods will. If you are successful in business and life, you have pleased god, if you are unlucky, then God is somehow punishing you. God is vengeful, he is bountiful, he is giveth, he is taketh away.
Whatever the situation, no matter how much one position contradicts with another, if you squint your eyes enough and believe, it works.
Beeb states Darling got concession out of Brown that Brown would be more honest about cuts. Is that new?
442 HO HO HA HA HE HE
These snap yougov polls are frighteningly accurate, you could stake your life on them.
Swingback and warmism pwned. bliss.
Excellent investigative piece on the BBC 10 on sham marriages.
442
which fightback is this ? - I’ve lost count.
449 Selective info alert.
Polls taken in the wash of a particular event (good or bad) are of no value.
gabble, you would be better off hanging on to get the line from tim before you post. You just embarrass yourself when you try and freelance.
439 Alanbrooke
I should have guessed from your monicker that you were into history!
The Labour party are indeed fighting back against Gordon, periodically.
449 - But it was 9% in a more recent poll…
I did an ARS poll a couple of days ago, was it done for Pb.com ?
459 - I must be ill, I’m agreeing with Coldstone and Mark Senior on the same thread.
338.
‘I remember the time when railway staff were courteous and helpful.’
Youv’e got an amazing memory,I would have thought that only Jack W would have experienced customer service on the railways prior to their nationalisation in the 1940’s.
421 - That’s rich coming from you of all people. Is ‘Curious’ your third or fourth incarnation on pbc? As Alastair Matlock noted a couple of days ago, we pbc old timers dearly remember you as John13 (smearing Adam Afryie), then Tressage, then Reflecting etc etc. You’re a giveway ‘cos you still spew out the same LibDem bilge and almost as unpleasantly as the ludicrous wage slave.
With all necessary caveats about snap polling, the Yougov is definitely bad for Labour, but more because it’s good for the Tories who are +2. The Lab -1 figure is less of a dip than I expected.
Con +2
Lab -1
LD -1
So the changes cannot all be attributed to yesterday’s plot.
Swingforward!
ONE POINT!!!
Labour have lost just one point - does that look like armageddon to you?
According to all the tories, Labour had been destroyed over the last 24 hours.
Not so confident now, are you?
Hilton story not on news at ten. good for the beeb.
End of.
Labour are doomed - DOOMED to defeat!
461
fraid so !
off to bed now as travelling tomorrow, I’ll keep the claymore sharp for the next encounter !
Cheers
470 patience gabble, patience..
The opinion polls are going to predict an absolute massacre for New Labour after this self-inflicted wound. Even I am debating whether I want to vote Labour in a few months time. I am thoroughly disgusted with everyone involved in this latest plot.
449. Fightback starts now? I admire your enthusiasm. But it’s taken several months to recover from the last failed coup. I don’t see how it’s possible to turn this around a second time, especially with the election so close.
467 - Ah, the sage of Windsor. A real blast from the past there John! I trust you are keeping well.
A move up to 42% for the Tories is important though. Pretty much guarantees a Tory majority.
LibDems going to the Tories. Labour still on 30%. Easy peasy, Yellow squeazy…
I had always thought sex began in 1963, but perhaps we were just larkin about.
470 - Erm, you were on here declaring the disaster over the marriage tax allowance which removed no points from the Tories. We have two polls with MOE changes. Nothing changed this week and we don’t know what the mid-term implications for Labour are…
470
A loss of one point and a tory gain of 2 = 3pt gap since yesterday. If you ask me without a couple of days for the news to be realised and absorbed it’s a clear indicator of where the polls are going Gabble.
Goodbye labour hello ‘blue’ sky…..
470 - Very confident Gabble.
So long as you have Brown as leader, I’ll be confident.
(I find the fact that you didn’t focus on the 3% increase in the lead overall as very telling)
470. But tories have hit the highest level since november the 15ths icm poll (im ignoring mori as its all over the place! they last had 43% in mid dec) Its also the highest yougov since oct the 9th.
473 Alanbrooke
Look forward to it. Have a good journey (if that’s possible in this weather).
The 18 most recent polls before this:
Con highest 43
Con 2nd highest 41
So this is the outright 2nd highest Con rating in the most recent 19 polls.
Not bad after a supposed “gaffe”. Maybe the posters are starting to have an affect.
475. Richie Rich
Forget the stats, forget the personalities, remember why you vote Labour.
What would the tories have done to this country over the last 13 years?
475 - Richie, Labour will be trouble if the stories rumble on. If they don’t then they may hold their own. Don’t expect them to win. It’s such a short journey to hung parliament now…
478 - Sex was invented in 1997, by me, Fact
478 John O
No 1962.
487 - Was your birth divine conception?
470. Gabble January 7th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Public sector workers my friend - they stay at home when the weather is fowl.
Remeber the Lib Dem Rogue last Feb with 25%!!!
476 - Hi Max, Bubblin’ along, mate…wish you’d post more often. Hopefully My Lord Matlock will also appear more regularly, and with Chris D, that would bring the original pbc blue lovelies back to full strength. How’s things with you?
Maybe the improved lead for the Conservatives is because of their poster?
(not that I take YouGov snap polls seriously of course …)
485
Before Labour took over in 97 the public finances were in excellent shape…in ‘tory shape.’ One only has to look at the last decade with a Labour chancellor at the helm to see what Labour would do. I’d rather have the Liberals in power than Labour quite frankly.
NEW THREAD
485 Gabble
Don’t be silly. He has remembered why he voted Labour - then realised that your party has nothing to do with that. You chose to abandon Socialism - why on earth would a Socialist support you?
470. Also, if you think the media wont whip up leadership campaign stories and cabinate split stories just prior to the GE day then your very much mistaken. This is murdock’s weapon: stories of inflighting, disunity and splits within labour… and it will be devasting. If 3 points is the work on H+H, just wait till they start publishing stories of certain cabinate minister’s taking soundings anf building up war chests.
489 Rob D
Probably - for his parents!
New thread.
485 Not bankrupted it.
Last?
490 public sector workers = permanent holiday!!!
public sector day:
1000 get in
1005 have a coffee
1010 put on politicalbetting.com
1230 lunch
1330 private phone call
1630 go home
470 - perhaps you missed the Guardian saying the failed coup was worth another 30 seats to the Tories.
500- No!
451 - you’re welcome Oldnat. Read Bower’s book and you will understand exactly why he is like he is and why he has got himself into such a mess, and the country too. It will infuriate you.
- does this not mean that you and Gordon are of the same nationality?
re 490 well this one doesn’t, and nor did the vast majority of my colleagues. It’s the lack of out-patients which is a problem at the moment.
John Rentoul publishes his annotated version of the Hewitt Hoon email….
http://johnrentoul.independentminds.livejournal.com/242589.html
A general point. I doubt any politician has ever had any great affect on the population’s behaviour. I simply don’t understand how we can attribute such power (e.g. Thatcher destroying the customer service ethic in the UK) to public figures who we know little (and care less) about.
I travel on GW from Newport to London 5-6 times a month. Staff have always been courteous and polite, if a bit gormless at times (when there are delays and whatnot). I haven’t noticed any change in the last thirty years or so.