Are we going to see a “reverse incumbency” effect?
February 4th, 2010
What’s this going to do in individual key seats?
So here we are - what many MPs are hoping will be the low point for them in the whole expenses saga - the publication today of the Legg Report.
Until we see the actual document we won’t get the full scale of what he’s concluded but it seems that up to half of all MPs will be ordered to pay back between them about £1m and that Sir Thomas himself will have some stinging words about the system and the ethics of MPs themselves.
What’ll make today so marked is that as well as being the top national story there’s a strong local angle for almost every news organisation in the land. The specifics for each individual MP will be big news on their home patches. With this happening so close to an election it’s almost bound to have an impact everywhere.
In electoral terms this is a much bigger challenge for Labour than the other parties for the simple fact that it’s got a lot more MPs. There’s also the potential for this to rub off more on the party in power.
For the Tories the national swing should contain the damage in all but perhaps a handful of seats where there have been very specific problems.
The general theory, backed up by election after election, is that incumbent MPs get an electoral bonus. Could this affair see that produce the opposite. Will 2010 be marked by the “reverse incumbency effect”?
We might see a lot of movement on the constituency betting markets in the next 24 hours. My best advice is to stick with seats you know and don’t over-react.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
Jackbooots Jacqui out!
Ooh, first?
The incumbency theory always had its limitations anyway - as a memorably shellshocked Sir Marcus Fox could testify in 1997 after his ‘foolish’ constituents unceremoniously dumped him in favour of a 24-year-old unknown!
Definitely (from one of the few people on PB who can spell this word correctly.)
EU allies to show solidarity with Brown before election
Link
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-allies-to-show-solidarity-with-brown-before-election-1889012.html
re 3. Yes Fox’s seat of Shipley in 1997 saw a swing of more than 13% - about on the same scale of that reported yesterday in that MORI aggregate data report.
Gordon’s magic touch has done it again - frankly, I’m totally confused by who is doing/reporting on what regarding expenses…it just rumbles on and on - no one could have given a story longer legs if they’d tried.
First we get the redacted stuff, then the rest after a huge fuss, then star chambers run by the parties, then Legg - isn’t there a Kennedy one too and then some quango to monitor it all in the future ?? I’m not even sure this is all of it.
And next there’s the entertainment/lunches and room bookings to come out - it’s going to be very hard to anticipate who’ll get caught out by so many possible black swan events.
Only a week ago Sion Simon was staying, now he’s coughed for £20k and standing down despite having a majority of over 9k.
IIRC we’ve had 4 MPs announcing they will be standing down in just the last few days - I assume these are Legg induced career moves
5-amid fears in Brussels that David Cameron would adopt isolationist and Eurosceptic policies as prime minister.
Let’s hope they’re right
I touched on this on the last thread; with policies in most areas very similar then perceived honesty and integrity of current candidates plays a greater role in how people will vote.
And Cameron is miles ahead in that regard over Brown, certainly south of Hadrian’s wall.
OT This is quite brilliant - the comments are superb
http://faultline.org/index.php/site/item/incendiary
fpt
Is Broxtowe a marginal on this definition? I would imagine so as NPMP has only a 2,296 majority in an electorate of over 70,000.
So…marginal swing this, marginal swing that – it’s bullshit.
The Tories used to get over 31,000 votes here. In 2001 and 2005 they got about 18,000. DNV used to get only 12,000 back in 1992 but 25,000 in 2001 and 22,000 in 2005.
Yes you can guess where I’m going with this can’t you!
Even if Nick loses no votes at all he’s still a goner if only 1 in 10 of 2005’s abstainers comes back and votes Tory. Or put it another way, the Tories’ vote dropped about 13,000 during the Blair years and, as per my article on turnout, this neatly matches the 12,000 gained by DNV.
Nick’s vote dropped 3,500 in 2001 and a further 3,400 in 2005. With Gordon leading the charge I can realistically see the total Labour vote dropping a similar amount this time around. The Tories would then need no new votes to win (and they increased their vote in 2005). The LibDems and Other have been gaining votes since 1997 as Labour lost them. Is those trends going to reverse in 2010? No way.
My prediction for the Broxtowe result is:
Lab 16,500 (down 4,000)
Con 21,500 (up 3,300)
LibDem 8,500 (up 700)
Other 2,500 (up 200)
This represents a 70% turnout (vs 69% in 2005). At higher turnout it gets worse for Nick.
Broxtowe is a typical of a hundred Labour seats weakly held across middle England.
FPT Re: Brown’s interview with Piers Morgan -
“Gordon may see this as ‘low-risk’, but in TV anything can happen”
Oh yeh - in a carefully planned pre-recorded and doubtless heavily edited interview with one of his long term mates? - I don’t think so somehow!
Labour accept this beautiful jewel
http://tinyurl.com/ykxc5md
David Cameron, protecting the country from dangerous RAPPERS
I suppose they’ll just go on calling him fat, though
So the polls have narrowed a bit of late – which seems to have caused some rekindling of the hung parliament theme and an ‘is Brown recovering?’ media narrative.
After PMQs yesterday the narrative is back to ‘Dave is firing on all cylinders again’ and the old ‘Brown just can’t stop lying’.
Maybe we should just sit back and take a steadier view. What is upcoming that we know about? I can think of:
Expensegate, The Final Act – on whose watch was this encouraged?
The Budget – horror story continues
Defence budgets argument – the ‘bastard Brown cares not for our plucky lads’ theme
50,000 quid dodgy bung to Gordon - his clumsy lie about it and Pickles’ letter
Chilcot wrap-up – Labour are lying scumbags, ‘shameless, unrepentant and still lying’
Greece, Spain Portugal and the political and social fallout of shitty debt management – remind me what the scale of our deficit and debt is would you?
Etc, etc
And every day that ticks by is another one lost to Labour.
Dave will get his majority.
For those interested in betting on the US mid-terms, here is a very useful analytical piece on the fall off in Obama’s numbers by age group (important as seniors vote at higher rates in all elections and at even higher rates in mid-terms). The fact that Obama does especially badly with the seniors bodes very badly for Democrats in November.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2010_congressional_election_the_senate/
Quentin Letts on PMQs:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1248300/QUENTIN-LETTS-The-PM-said-looking-forward-Chilcot-Sure-thing.html
Plus a comment about a forthcoming challenge against Bercow and no, it’s nothing to do with the ridiculous notion that he might conceivably lose Buckingham.
Hurrah!
Talking of the seat market, I am the bearer of immense news: thanks largely to Shadsy, we now have prices in ALL 59 SCOTTISH SEATS. Ladbrokes completed the 59th by publishing prices for the sole Tory seat: DCT.
This is a big development in itself. Off the top of my head, only about 10 Scottish seats were priced up in 2005, and even some of the seats that changed hands on the night (eg. Western Isles and Dundee East) did not have a market prior to Polling Day.
Ladbrokes - Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (incumbent: David Mundell, Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland)
Con 1/12
Lab 5/1
LD 33/1
SNP 100/1
UKI 100/1
Both the Lib Dems and the SNP are too long there IMHO. And Labour are too short. Labour are in utter panic in neighbouring Dumfries & Galloway and West Lothian. I’d think that every single Labour activist in DCT will be travelling to neighbouring constituencies to campaign, if they possibly can.
17 …. and now, by way of balance, here’s what Ann Trenerman has to say about PMQs in The Times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/parliamentary_sketch/article7014071.ece
18 Yep, three cheers for Shadsy, way ahead of the field as ever and never frit to take on a bet, unlike some other “major” bookmakers who could be mentioned.
This is not good news:
‘UK deliveries halted as Toyota crisis deepens’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/article7014298.ece
‘Toyota woes deepen as Japanese and US governments pile on the pressure’
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/09d27c0a-1147-11df-a6d6-00144feab49a.html
‘Accelerator is stuck . . . we’re in trouble, there’s no brakes . . . hold on . . . and pray’
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2838185/Toyota-recall-crisis-Four-died-in-crash.html
Fury as Margo’s right-to-die bill ‘falls victim to Holyrood skulduggery’
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Fury-as-Margo39s-righttodie-bill.6041416.jp
Stuart, Hard to push a Tojo as a dealer after all the negative press, deserved it would seem. Not that Britain has a real car industry to pick up the slack anymore.
Re Margo’s bill.
Labour have no conscience about conscience votes.
Anything which threatens their fragile views on religion in the West of Scotland, with hopefully continuing catholic and protestant benefit class support needs to be avoided.
Abortion, parade marches and right to die are topics they need to avoid COMPLETELY, as they will antagonise someone somewhere, so best to continue to deny any discussion at all and stick one’s head up one’s own #$%&. The Brown approach in action.
21 Here’s a link to the website, enabling Toyota owners to determine whether or not their vehicle is included within the recall:
http://www.toyota.co.uk/recall/
Two (identical) posts from me apparently in moderation re: Toyota recall.
14 - So Dave is going to war with Rappers.
Please make it true.
But don’t forget Dave, there are good Rappers and Bad Rappers.
Make Jacob Rees Mogg a Rap Tsar and Pimp Annunziatas Bentley.
wibbler @ 5
Oh how the EU would love to dissolve the people of the UK and elect a new one.
A Reverse Incumbency Effect is surely one of the reasons why the marginals are showing bigger swings. Where there is a chance of kicking out the thieves, the voters are keen to do so.
btw-Is a March election finally off?
Haven’t heard anything about it for some time. When would Parliament need to be dissolved? Obviously with Brown’s AV gimmick needing parliamentary time it looks more and more likely like May, with a slight possibility of June.
But always was going to be May. Brown let March speculation rise, for no reason. Again.
#5, by wibbler February 4th, 2010 at 4:11 am
EU allies to show solidarity with Brown before election
European Union leaders are to give tacit support to Gordon Brown’s attempt to win re-election amid fears in Brussels that David Cameron would adopt isolationist and Eurosceptic policies as prime minister.
Nicolas Sarkozy, the French President, and Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, are both expected to visit London before the general election for talks with the Prime Minister.
Fecking-’ell! Why are Europhiles so bl00dy t’ick…?
So we will have French and German right-wingers sucking-up to a failed UK socialist. That will please the Euro-righteoussceptics!
Having midget-Nico’ and frumpy-Angie’ cuddling-up to Rusty McBrown will achieve what? The only party that can deny the Conservatives a victory is UKIP.
In conclusion - apart from Buckinghamshire - watch the UKIP tactically vote Conservative (and Labour voters flock to the BNP-5cum). Is it any wonder we English want rid of these no-good foreigners…?
Euro-righteoussceptics => Euro-
righteoussceptics!30 - The genius of Hagues Europe Strategy is that the Tories have ended up neither being eurosceptic nor having influence while flirting with the far right.
What a triumph.
Tory officials dismissed fears in Brussels that Mr Cameron would head the most Eurosceptic British government since Margaret Thatcher’s. They pointed to his decision to abandon plans for a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon – a move which angered Eurosceptic MPs. “We will be constructive Europeans,” one Tory frontbencher said. “We are not looking for a confrontation with Brussels; our priority will be to get the UK economy back on its feet.”
However, Labour and Liberal Democrats will attack Tory policies on Europe during the election campaign. They will put the spotlight on the hardline views of their Polish and Czech partners in the European Parliament.
Yesterday the Liberal Democrats condemned the Tories’ decision to try to form a new political group on the Committee of the Regions – which has so far met without success. Fiona Hall, leader of the British Liberal Democrat MEPs, said: “The Tories have been knocking on doors and begging anyone who is right-wing and has a pulse to help them form a new group. However, it looks like they have too few friends in Europe to form a credible alliance. This is humiliating for a party that aspires to be in government in the UK.”
The Express’ headline reminds me of the Butler report - the press made up its mind what would happen regardless of what actually did.
#32,
‘Tupac. Don’t bovver; ain’t inter-rested.
:note-to-me: Cut toe-nails.
A new piece of research this morning finds that the rate of child homicide and unexplained violent deaths has halved over the last 30 years.
Will that influence Camerons attempts to use the issue for political gain?
And for some serious news….
And for those who have not checked wiki for a while, some sad news :Pauly Fuemana died on Sunday. Another Aquarian of to God’s place-in-the-sky.
The EU leaders should remember the effect of the Guardian’s letter writing campaign in the 2004 election.
27.
“Pimp Annunziata”
What a name for a rapper! Or even a hip hop group.
Back on track, as it looks ominously as if Britain will be stuffed for choice between two sets of vacuuous dissembling redistributionist (poor to rich) parties, Stephen Glover tells it like it is in today’s Mail. So it’s not just Heffer who’s noticed the Emperor Khamereon has no clothes?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1248304/STEPHEN-GLOVER-Excuse-there-tell-Tory-Partys-policies-are.html
diane @ 14
The interview is a great illustration of why Conservatives and identity politics just don’t get on.
Despite Cameron’s efforts to purge the party of unpleasant attitudes, its not good enough. Every policy has to be designed to meet Johann’s particlar Gay Rights obsessed agenda.
The bullying issue is a good example. David Cameron sees it as a subset of a more general problem, that can be tackled through general school reform. That is nowhere near good enough.
School discipline has suffered massively, and though both parties share the blame, it has continued to get worse over the last 13 years, particularly as problem children are almost impossible to expell.
Solving this problem would have a far bigger impact on the lives of bullied gay children than any amount of re-education of teachers, or pro-gay propaganda (which would probably make things worse).
However tackling social problems like this means treating gays like everyone else, which is a cardinal sin as far as the gay lobby is concerned.
“Emperor Khamereon”
Eh? Who?
40 It’s actually a very poor interview from a journalistic standpoint. The interviewer clearly had a preconceived point he wished to make about his subject, and clearly twists everything to support that point.
It will certainly be an interesting and unique factor in the election, and statisticians will no doubt pore over the data for years to come. But as often happens, while there may be quite widespread effects on voting, the impact on seat turnover might be more limited. It will also be interesting to see if there is any opposite effect, where an egregious trougher has been replaced with a fresh candidate…
5, hehehe:
“Vote Gordon - the French would”
On the main topic, I suspect we’ll see a really odd election regarding incumbency. Those with very good expenses or just a smidgen or silliness could get a nice boost as their electorate wants to hold onto them. Silly buggers (naming no Cohens) could end up getting hammered.
Off-topic: I wish refreshing/posting here wouldn’t keep making firefox crash.
45 Off-topic: I wish refreshing/posting here wouldn’t keep making firefox crash.
same here
42 Johan Hari is a very poor journalist.
5. That’s about as sensible as Guardianistas e-mailing people in Ohio, urging them not to vote for Bush in 2004.
#45, MD, how old is you machine?
I am extremely confused about problems with PoliticalBetting and Firefox, as I don’t have any problems. Currently I have six Firefox tabs open, with ARRSE auto-refreshing.
Add to which all sorts of services and programmes multi-tasking; why is it that Firefox does not crash? Could you have a memory/swap issue….
40/47 - It was Section 28 which introduced identity politics into the Tory Party and presumably Cameron sought out Hari to do his repentance.
I look forward to Daves War on Rap.
White Lines (Don’t Do It)
“Johan Hari is a very poor journalist.”
..said Sean Fear. But he looked away momentarily, showing that while on the surface he was anti-Hari, underneath his instincts were supportive.
Worst January Since 2005!
“The number of shoppers hitting the high street in January fell at its fastest rate for five years as the weather and the rise in VAT kept consumers away.
The snow had the biggest impact, resulting in a 30 per cent slump nationally in shopper numbers on 6 January as the near-Arctic conditions hit. Footfall was down by a less dramatic 5 per cent over the month, according to the market research firm Synovate.
With retailers managing their stock tightly and, in general, enjoying better-than-expected trading in December, the so-called January sales were also a bit of a non-event, although their importance has been declining for years.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/high-street-feels-the-chill-after-worst-january-since-2005-1888894.html
What will that do for 2010 first quarter’s GDP??
51 To be fair, actually, he did once right an amusing article about how his right wing Swiss father thinks he’s a complete t0sser.
Good Morning Defoe Hatrick Voters For Nick Palmer Worldwide :
Meanwhile …. Allo, allo, allo, what do we have here then as the rossers feel the collars of the Conservative …. come along quietly Sir ….
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7013303.ece
51 To be fair, actually, he did once write an amusing article about how his right wing Swiss father thinks he’s a complete t0sser.
47.
“Johan Hari is a very poor journalist.”
I bet he gets paid a lot more than some on here. And he seems to agree in principle with Stephen Glover about Khammereon’s Bliarishness:
” about his anti-gay European allies. On the biggest obstacles facing gay people – the real, on-going violence – he had little to offer beyond words of condemnation.
David Cameron is a hazy cloud of charm and platitudes: no matter how hard you peer into him, you cannot find anything solid to focus on for long. There are flickers of apparently real….feeling, but they are soon followed by excuse-making . Which is the real Cameron? … I suspect even he doesn’t know.
“there was enough evasion and dissembling in his answers to sow doubts. He didn’t tell the truth about his own voting record, and he made ludicrously false statements…”
I have a feeling the Cap’n Mainwarings on here just don’t like it up ‘em when the teddy bear they clutch is criticised. Shoot the messenger, why don’t you?
53.
“his….. Swiss father thinks he’s a complete t0sser.”
He obviously hasn’t watched Roger Federer serve.
54 - Is the MP who put this out more idiotic than Grayling?
This came to light after the Milton Keynes MP Mark Lancaster put out a statement saying there were 6,015 “violent attacks” in the town last year, reflecting a 236 per cent increase over the past decade. The figures were given to Mr Lancaster by Conservative Central Office.
This infuriated the local police chief, who told the Milton Keynes Citizen newspaper that the statistics are “extremely misleading”.
Nikki Ross, the local commander, said that the figure includes “everything from public order offences, to harassment, to allowing a dog to be out of control in a public place”.
“The actual number of people who were victims of serious violence was 81,” she said.
Question Time
On tonight’s panel are: Lord Falconer, Theresa May MP, Clare Short MP, George Galloway and Melanie Phillips.
Could a few sparks be flying tonight?
56 I daresay Sir Fred Unwin got paid a lot more than many people here. It didn’t mean he was a talented banker.
#52, by Financier February 4th, 2010 at 8:16 am
What will that do for 2010 first quarter’s GDP??
As one of the few who does not believe that the [official, not technical] recession is over I have been thinking about this. I have come to the conclusion - and Gabble will like this - that CY2010Q1 should be a lot like CY2009Q4. Let me tell yous’ why….
This time last year most of the UK car manufacturers were in hiatus. This should result in manufacturing growth ‘appearing’ in the new figures. Add in Toyata’s recall and we have a Keynsian patch-work of growth.
I don’t expect any real growth until CY2010Q3 but - so bad was the ‘nae boom, nae bust’ contraction - growth is inevitable. Unfortunately both the consumer and HMG will see no positive effect regarding income or expenditure. :shrugs:
Meanwhile II …. Piers Morgan is to interview the Prime Minister to show that Our Gawd has got talent …. Hhmmmm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7149922/Piers-Morgan-to-interview-Gordon-Brown-on-TV-chat-show.html
54.
“the rossers feel the collars of the Conservative”
“Calm down dear!”says Michael Winner….”He’s a Tory,dear, they don’t do hard sums!”
That Hari interview was indeed predictably pre-judged.
Dave gave some comfortable and some uncomfortable answers.
For me the key point to note is that Dave is happy to receive, engage and respond to interviewers on subjects that he is utterly certain in advance will be hostile. Whatever one may judge to be the merit of his replies I do at least feel alot clearer on the position.
Compare and contract with McAvity. Could one conceive Brown agreeing to sit down with a strongly right-wing journalist to be grilled for an hour on the subject of, say, properly funding the armed services? Yeah right.
Well done Dave.
59.
“On tonight’s panel are: Lord Falconer, Theresa May MP, Clare Short MP, George Galloway and Melanie Phillips.”
One hopelessly dull Bliarite apologist..two bears of very little brain…oh yes and two people who could re-start the Middle East war just by looking at one another!
59 - Glad I’m not doing the seating plan for that one.
49, it’s only 2-3 years I think. Others have reported the same issue.
Meanwhile III …. Andrew Sparrow in the ‘Guardian’ take on Mr Well’s UK Polling Report recent chunterings :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2010/feb/03/polls-labour
@56:
I’m all in favour of shooting the messenger when the messenger is a politically-illiterate arse face who writes for the Independent.
However, I’m no monster. Hari’s death shall be swift and merciful.
The MP with the dodgy crime stats may not want to be the poster boy for the Broken Britain/Marriage/Resposibility meme.
Where would the marriage tax allowance go here?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1159899/The-modern-face-Tory-Party-Front-bencher-splits-mother-baby–shell-voting-Labour.html
@66:
Mad Mel on Galloway’s lap. Lord Falconer under the table polishing May’s shoes. Clare Short wo’t be attending on a matter of principle. Well, she will be attending, the threat of non-attendance will be implicit.
re 49. Use Google Chrome - by far the best and fastest browser about
#67, MD
How often do you clean-up your drives and/or defrag them? [I used to work with PC-RIPs* and memory/swap issues were common.]
As for physical memory - assuming you have a flavour of Vista - their is a Memory Diagnostics Tool under the Administrative Tools sub-menu. [You may wish to schedule them using the at tool.]
Must go; chahs’
* Raster Image Processors, not SeanT’s girl-friends.
72/49. Good morning. Get a Mac!
73, I defrag probably every month or so. I use XP, not Vista.
40. Yes. But Cameron was right about schools ‘messaging’, it comes from the very top, the school system and curriculum under the pretence of inclusion and diversity, has invited in the mad the sad and the bad, the extremists who run pressure groups and push their message with relentlessness, into writing the materials that go into classrooms.
There isnt even a pretence of debate on a whole range of social, economical and political issues in schools. Issues that divide the nation, that split families, that are part of raging discussions in pubs and clubs, issues that have competing philosophies and ideologies that are mainstream are ignored from the debate, or ridiculed.
The only saving grace, is that our educational system is so poor that the impact of this propaganda fades quite quickly.
What we had in the past is children subject to the individual prejudices of their teachers, or the school as a whole, now with the centralisation and concentration of teaching materials (teachers now all get the same information from the same resources, interactive whiteboard, and teach it to the children all in the same way) means that children are now subject to the prejudices of the dept of schools etc.
61 the figures are quarterly growth, not annual, so comparison which will be published is with Q4 2009. The recovery isn’t strong though I’d think growth remains slightly more likely than a fall but it will be a close run thing.
75. I am a computer engineer, defragging on such a regular basis rarely makes much difference unless you put lots of data on and off your machine.
The OP needs to uninstall firefox and delete his user profile, then reinstall firefox
on xp go to:
C:\Documents and Settings\\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\
On vista go to:
C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\
These are hidden, so make sure you tick show hidden files.
From Toby Young.
can offer one small crumb of comfort to Fraser. I was two years above Cameron at Brasenose, also studying Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and would occasionally engage him in debate about the political issues of the day. This was in 1985 in the aftermath of the miners’ strike and I can report that, back then at least, he was a dry-as-dust Thatcherite. He was a braying, triumphalist Conservative who made no concessions to the leftwing atmosphere of Oxford in the mid-80s — no hint of the Wet he was to become. If the child is the father of the man, Fraser can rest easy.
Hmmm who’d have guessed it.
re 75. Get yourself Windows 7. Superb.
So, should get google chrome, windows 7 and a Mac… seems excessive, given the problem is with the pb.com website rather than my machine.
78, how does that make a difference?
It’s BoE day and QE is on the table:
http://order-order.com/2010/02/04/qe-or-not-qe-that-is-the-question/
David Cameron please take note.
The number of violent deaths among children in England and Wales has fallen by almost 40% since 1974, research has suggested.
The Bournemouth University study says the death rate is the fourth lowest in the Western world..
.Prof Colin Pritchard, from the university’s school of health and social care, said the findings showed violent death rates among children “had never been lower” and were a “relative success story”.
He told BBC News: “Thirty years ago England and Wales were the third or fourth highest child killers in the Western world, but we’re now fourth lowest.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8497277.stm
coldstone @ 79
I can report that, back then at least, he was a dry-as-dust Thatcherite. He was a braying, triumphalist Conservative who made no concessions to the leftwing atmosphere of Oxford in the mid-80s
That’s our Dave Inshallah
83: Since 1974? Think both Tory and Labour governments can take credit for that one then.
85 - Absolutely.
Hopefully it will stop Daves sick attempt to use the issue.
Over on LabourHome, there is an entry titled ‘what could have been’, with a list of broken promises from the 1997 Labour manifesto.
http://www.labourhome.org/?p=9938
54
Jack W
saw this and thought pf you..
Getting Married
Jacob, age 92, and Rebecca, age 89, living in Cornwall, are excited
about their decision to get married.
They go for a stroll to discuss the wedding, and on the way they pass a chemists shop. Jacob suggests they go in.
Jacob says to the man behind the counter: “Are you the owner?”
The pharmacist answers, “Yes.”
Jacob: “We’re about to get married. Do you sell heart medication?”
Pharmacist: “Of course we do.”
Jacob: “How about medicine for the circulation and high blood pressure?”
Pharmacist: “All kinds ”
Jacob: “Medicine for rheumatism?”
Pharmacist: “Definitely.”
Jacob: “How about suppositories?”
Pharmacist: “You bet!”
Jacob: “Medicine for memory problems, arthritis, and Alzheimer’s?”
Pharmacist: “Yes, a large variety. The works.”
Jacob: “What about vitamins, sleeping pills, Via**a, antidotes for
Parkinson’s disease?”
Pharmacist: “Absolutely..”
Jacob: “Everything for heartburn and indigestion?”
Pharmacist: “We do.”
Jacob: “You sell wheelchairs, walking frames and sticks?”
Pharmacist: “All speeds and sizes.”
Jacob: “Adult incontinance pants?”
Pharmacist: “Certainly.”
Jacob: “Then we’d like to use this shop for our wedding present list…”
81. Maybe there is something messed up in your firefox profile which is causing it to crash, i havent had any issues using it on PB.
PB keeps on crashing on me as well. So MD is not alone!
59. WOW! Lefty Clare and The Gorgeous One V Mad Mel and Tony’s Crony! Should be an entertaining show.
For those with an interest in Scotland, Jonathon Meades has a series on BBC about the place and one of the episodes is on iPlayer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00mqlzz/Jonathan_Meades_Off_Kilter_Episode_2/
Those nits of a particularly sensitive nationalistic disposition should probably avoid.
36. “A new piece of research this morning finds that the rate of child homicide and unexplained violent deaths has halved over the last 30 years.”
Do you have a link to this paper?
87. Good find, you know I think that the 1997 Labour manifesto may even top the 1997 budget in terms of lies per paragraph.
“too much economic instability, with wild swings from boom to bust”
“New Labour will be wise spenders, not big spenders”
“Save to invest is our approach, not tax and spend.”
“We will ensure that – over the economic cycle – public debt as a proportion of national income is at a stable and prudent level.”
Five more years?
81 I would disable all add-ons in firefox and try again adding them back in until it crashes. You can just try starting in safe mode (start, programs, mozilla firefox, safe mode) to see what happens initially.
No sympathy for any of them.
They just do not get it!
They should not have claimed for 90% of the things they did,’within the rules’ or not.
They all have character flaws if they believed the public would be happy about this.
This is one of the things that completely puts me off the main three parties.
The holier than thou one’s that did not claim can get off their high horses…they stayed quiet when all this was going on.Just as sleazy as far as I’m concerned.
They have helped themselves to money that was for the running of the country, NOT them,their houses or the stuff to put into their houses.They make me sick.
I hope this really does get a lot of them voted out.Can the public stay mad until election day?
If not this will simply continue,plus they will award themselves a nice big pay rise to compensate their losses?
To any politician reading this…taxpayers money belongs to the country NOT you lot.
Have just looked at Ladbrokes Scottish constituencies betting.For all the fuss there is only one seat changing hands according to the betting odds-Ochils.
95, cheers for the suggestions. I might give that a go later, or might go for the google chrome option.
Bit irksome though.
I’ve installed Google Chrome, and it seems OK, but the irritating thing about it is that every time I refresh, it takes me to the top of the thread, not back to where I was before.
Mike.
Good call on the spreads yesterday, SPIN back up.
Google chrome seems to have a glitch on getting into accounts on SPIN.
In the same way SkyBet won’t take bets with Safari.
93
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8497277.stm
’tis ‘ere
88 MTF. Not funny at all ….
Morning all
On topic: I think the sheer scale and mind-numbing repetition of the MPs’ expenses scandal will blunt the effect to quite a large degree. People are bored with it by now, surely?
On the Independent’s story of EU leaders attempting to interfere in the UK election, I am fairly sceptical to be honest. Why would they bother? Even if true, it will have zero effect.
The interesting line from Andrew Grice’s article was this one:
“However, Labour and Liberal Democrats will attack Tory policies on Europe during the election campaign. They will put the spotlight on the hardline views of their Polish and Czech partners in the European Parliament.”
Oh, goody! Let’s hope Labour do make that mistake again. It is no coincidence that, last year when they were banging on ad nauseam about this, the Tory lead was huge and everyone ignored Labour’s shrill and bonkers-sounding attempts to smear the Tories. It was only when Labour switched to more plausible, more relevant, and less swivel-eyed lines of attack (IHT and marriage tax-breaks being two examples) that they began to have some effect.
With a bit of luck we’ll have a repeat of the high comedy of Labour Cabinet ministers trying to argue with the Chief Rabbi of Poland about who is or is not anti-Semitic.
R5 running another phone-in about MPs expenses - still alive and well as an issue, not as red hot but let’s see what happens after 10am.
There will be blood, not least that of the civil servants who are apparently in the frame for allowing it to happen.
103: Yawn….that ship, rightly or wrongly has sailed and people will have made their mind up about it. It’s old news…
Even tim’s not banging on about anymore. Although, I suppose, when the memo comes.
103 - Dave’s not confused on the issue of his Polish allies is he.
They’re not homophobic..but..They’re changing”
Have you taken a look at the spreads yet?
The SPIN office must’ve resembled tonights Question Time panel.
“With a bit of luck we’ll have a repeat of the high comedy of Labour Cabinet ministers trying to argue with the Chief Rabbi of Poland about who is or is not anti-Semitic.”
Aye - lefties for you. They are the arbiters of what is racist, anti-semitic etc. Even if the supposed victims disagree, then they are wrong and must be re-educated.
92 astateofdenmark
From our point of view, it’s a wonderful series! Patronising Englishman in suit and tie on the machair, demonstrating visually how totally out of touch he is, even before you hear him speak!
106 tim - I would imagine the spreads will stay at about the current level until we get some more polls; maybe Extrabet will move a bit to reduce the discrepancy (they’re 5 seats lower on the Tories).
Betting Post
Richard Nabavi & David Roe.
You can get your 12/1 now with Hills online
When Will Gordon Brown Formally Announce His Resignation As Labour Leader?
Bored? Grumpy?
Put a smile back on your face courtesy of leftwing lunacy!
Hear the wise word of Bedpans’ understudy:
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2010/02/climate-conspiracy-bbc
110 Thanks tim - I’m on! That price cannot possibly last. I would have thought it ought to be one of the shortest odds of the options they list.
107. Poland always confuses the lefties though, they couldnt understand how the Polish Unions and freedom fighters, could fail to enjoy the socialist paradise created for them by Stalin, and they looked to Mrs Thatcher as their saviour.
Odd that the headbangers on Europe are now Guardian & Independent commentators.
Presumably their hope is that if they bang on about Europe they can somehow get the Tories to split over the approach, but whats happening is they are turning people off their other arguments.
111 They are hilarious aren’t they - Sunny’s article in the Guardian had me
After reading both Toby Young and Hari I’m more and more convinced that the person we know as David Cameron is in fact a pod person.
If there’s one party that should gain from the present situation its the Libdems.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/steve-richards/steve-richards-liberal-democrats-hour-has-come-round-at-last-1888787.html
‘Go back to your con’…..ah well you know the rest.
108. wow, who would have thought it, naked open prejudice and anti english bigotry from a scots nats.
Morning all
Here we go again! I’m really sick and tired of this selective pretense of self-flagellation our political classes as a whole are enacting.
Our politicians (yes all of them) have shamed themselves not just in their original actions but in their utter mendacity in failing to address the situation appropriately (by failing to reduce the overall per capita cost of MPs etc), the bureaucrats have proved utterly incompetent in administering the original system and in then resolving it (how many mistakes has Legg made?). Of course then the various bureaucratic interests can’t agree on what to do and start bickering. What a farce! Richard Briers would be proud!
And let’s not forget our sick and twisted media whose vulturous, salacious, profit motivated approach to this has distorted and disfigured the reality of what occured beyond recognition so that some of the most obese and greedy troughing pigs can get away virtually without reproach and other whose actual use of taxpayers money was considerably less get dragged across the coals. Is this the worst and potentially most misdirected witch hunt in modern British politics I wonder?
So there we have it, the poor old British Taxpayer, after being entertained with a bit of distractive fantasy drama is left footing the bill not only for those fat troughers we elect but also for another f*cking QUANGO. If MPs cannot self-regulate in an appropriate way they do not deserve to represent us at all.
And if Brown, Cameron and Clegg think they can draw a line under this when all they are doing is f*cking the electorate in a different position they can forget it.
Scrap the QUANGO, scrap the unreceipted daily allowances, cut the expenses by 10% per capita across the board, revoke the tax exemption on expenses and cap expenditure on property (mortgaged or rented) to the average cost of equivalent average property in the area and pay housing costs (other than fixed utilities - i.e. council tax) for no more than 10 years.
They can bleat as much as they like but until MPs do something significant (and paying back £1 million is peanuts - it should be ten times that) then it ain’t over and will continue to be a source of contempt for our MP’s. All this debacle has achieved is to reset the clock on expenses and its already started ticking again. IT AINT OVER……..
114 Ted - No, I think that they, and Miliband, and Huhne, really believe this nonsense matters (despite the loonies in the groupings which Labour and the LibDems belong to). That I can sort-of understand from their distorted world-view where Tories are automatically evil, but you’d have thought that by now they would have noticed that the great British public is (very sensibly) completely uninterested in the views of some East European politician of whom they’ve never heard and who has zero say in anything to do with the UK.
117 notme - wrong there, being rude about Jonathan Meades is something shared that binds together the English & Scots (Welsh, Irish, French, Germans, Japanese, Kiribati islanders in fact all mankind).
116 - Add this to your list.
Chris Blackhurst, City editor of the London Evening Standard says Cameron was “aggressive, sharp-tongued, often condescending and patronising.
“If anyone had told me then he might become Premier I would have told them to seek help.”
Patrick Hosking, investment editor of The Times, said: “He was obstructive.”
Most damning of all is this assessment by veteran City journalist Ian King, who calls him “a poisonous, slippery individual,” adding: “He was a smarmy bully who regularly threatened journalists. He loved humiliating people, including a colleague at ITV he would abuse publicly as ‘Bunter’, just because the poor bloke was a few pounds overweight.
“He was a mouthpiece for that company’s charmless chairman, Michael Green, who operated him the way Keith Harris works Orville.”…For most 27-year-olds the chances of landing a prestigious, well-paid City job without any private-sector experience were negligible. But not to a man who had effortlessly glided into every position he’d desired, through family connections.
This time it was Annabel Astor, the mother of Cameron’s fiancée, Samantha Gwendoline Sheffield, who pulled strings with her friend Michael Green. “When she says to me, ‘Do something,’ I do it!” said the usually far-from-timid Green.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/02/04/david-cameron-what-the-experts-say-115875-22017276/
110 tim - Now down to a more sensible 11/2.
Just got an email from ‘Human Events’, which bills itself as the ‘headquarters of the Consevative underground’, featuring an article about the coming struggle between the president and the justices of the supreme court: it’s written by Chuck Norris. CHUCK NORRIS! Yes, that one: martial arts actor, purveyor of home gym stuff on TV, and now political commentator. Ye Gods. The only man to win a staring contest against Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder at the same time.
122 - You can buy me a pint if it comes in.
121 - Oh Tim, your argument was so compelling until the provided the source for the poison.
I wonder how many mobile phones or laptops Cameron has knackered?
Best bit so far from the Legg report referring to Alistair Darling.
Alistair Darling - Claimed £48 for redecorating front door. He told BBC 5 Live someone had written something “uncomplimentary” on it
Wonder what it was…
124 tim - OK.
Re 118. Oh and I forgot RANT OVER…
More value for money - not
MPs asked to repay £1.3m. Cost of Legg inquiry: £1.1m. Cost of setting up new regulator: £1.1m. Regulator’s budget estimate: £6.5m
127 - I bet you another pint that David Roe was asleep for the vital hour.
129 - So the cost of ensuring MPs don’t waste our money is six times the amount that MPs have wasted?
Mirror in anti-tory article shocker….
Good post from Toenails - glad it’s not just me that hasn’t a clue who is doing what.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2010/02/sir_thomas_sir.html
Sovereign CDS is spreading:
The SovX Western Europe index went above 90bps on Wednesday and has gone over 100bps today
Portugal upto 216bps and Greece to 410bps.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/02/04/141131/sovereign-cds-is-spreading/?updatedcontent=1
tim, relax. All that stuff has been well known since forever. Even if it’s true, people change when their status changes. Most people thought lardon brown was sane and competent until 2007; they may een have been right until 2007.
Oh and which is worse: calling a fat person bunter, or ed balls’ best mate and bullying czar (!) making death threats by text message to a mobile number illegally disclosed to him by some other mates of ed at the beeb?
110, 122 - Compare and contrast this Paddy Power market:
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=225275
I was allowed precisely £9.10 on the William Hill market, even at 11/2 (I missed the earlier price). 12/1 is an absolute steal for those who got on it.
129. Plato - do we know what the cost of the Kelly report was? I doubt it cost less than £200k. So all in all the initial debacle will have cost more to the taxpayer than the fiddling MP’s did and unless Mps are going to halve their personal expenses (yeah and I’ve just seen pigs flying over Westminster) its going to cost the taxpayer extra money every year. Whats the point?
The EU fears Cameron. http://tinyurl.com/yfoff9q
129 Plato - Is that an annual £6.5m? £10,000 per MP each year?
The best expenses claim must surely be this: “Mrs Iris Robinson was paid £1,644.90 in January 2006 for the cost of a bed, which exceeded the guideline price of £1,100 by £544.90.”
Had she worn out the last one?
136 - This is why we need a twitter group on here.
Is this a new market on Extrabet?
“Gordon Brown Weeks As PM In 2010
If he leaves midweek, rounded up to the nearest week.”
Archroy/jsfl - and all because supposed pillars of the community can’t keep their hands out of the fiddling till.
I can’t see any need for this - a cost of failure that costs more than the problem it’s supposed to fix. If MPs just published their stuff online - that’d stop it in its tracks.
I see we have quite a smearfest going on today.
141 - I also note that for those of us that have bet that Gordon Brown will fight the election, the 28/1 that William Hill now quote that he will stand down as Labour leader before the election looks a rather tempting way of going green. I’m thinking about that at the moment. It might be a good Rawnsley hedge.
140 - She had one bed for Protestants and one for Catholics.
141 tim - It’s been there for a while. I have been wondering about it as a long-shot play (virtually a free bet) on a hung parliament with Labour as biggest party.
140. Bloody marvellous. Do MPs ever actually pay for anything out of their own pockets (already bulging with their rather handsome salaries)?
142. Now if it was a private business they would just say - this is cut, that is cut and cut that by 10% - end of story and people would just have to live with it.
The political classes are just prevaricating and obfuscating now……
139 Don’t know - assume so but hope not!
Ted is right. Meades’ series on England’s green and pleasant land managed to offend pretty much everyone who saw who it. Why I liked it.
Probably the only time Greenpeace, Countryside Alliance, English Heritage, National Trust, NUM, Church of England and Farmers have ever been united.
Oldnat. My comment was deliberately provocative. We all have our myths.
I really hope Cameron disbands all these useless Parliamentary regulators. He started off well by proposing full transparency in expense claims so that any trougher could be publically humiliated but all these new bodies seem to have superseded that.
Typical New Labour response to a problem, create some new quangos, employ somebody on large amounts of money but do nothing about the underlying problem.
Legg Report
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmmemest/348/348.pdf
An interesting consideration in all this is that if MPs hadn’t voted through Gordon Brown’s 2003 finance bill which exempted MPs expenses from tax among other things then most of the salacious stuff, the flat screen TV’s, the trouser presses, the antique fireplaces, the beds and the duckhouses probably wouldn’t have been a problem because the idea of paying 40% tax on them would likely have deterred the majority of such claims.
151. Indeed; the key advantage of Labour’s system is that you can parachute in one of your friends to head the ‘regulator’ and thus ensure nothing much happens.
Andrew Spencer February 4th, 2010 at 10:20 am “The best expenses claim must surely be this: “Mrs Iris Robinson was paid £1,644.90 in January 2006 for the cost of a bed, which exceeded the guideline price of £1,100 by £544.90.” Had she worn out the last one?”
and taxpayers funded the costs of her bonking.
106.
“They’re not homophobic..but..They’re changing””
Poles or Khammereons Ulster allies?
Hmm,
Gordon has repaid £13,723.04 for his cleaning claims despite being asked for “only” £12,888.03.
Elliot Morley ‘has no issues’.
151. Trouble is Cameron is quickly becoming the Quango King. There’s Osborne’s Financial regulator, Lansley’s super quango and this nonsense to make sure our leaders behave themselves and don’t take the piss.
It’s times like this I ponder whether we would be better off without Parliament at all (of course we wouldn’t be better off). We’d possibly be better off if all the current incumbents were kicked out though…..
151.
Talking about useless regulators, it seems like years since the EC parliament decided that Conservative MEP Den Dover should pay back about half a million pounds (or was it Euros?). Has he been made to pay, or voluntary paid, any of this yet?
146 - Thats worth thinking about if the polls narrow.
Hills now backed down to 3/1
147. Before the scandal, clothes and school fees and the costs of mortgaging and furnishing one house (unless they flipped of course).
158. Of course, parliament is not there to govern. It is, in effect, the ultimate quango (although elected). It is supposed to hold the executive to account.
In the case of Iris Robinson was the bed justified through “fair wear and tear” or was it being used for purposes not “wholly connected with your duties as an MP”?
159 Wage Slave you old codger!
I dunno whether he’s paid anything back but he’s no longer a problem for either the Conservatives or the EU Parliament.
Anyway I found this about Dover which I’m sure you’ll really enjoy (not). It really is incredible hows these politicians brazenly screw us.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/5827335/Den-Dover-given-MEP-medal-despite-expenses-row.html
162. Of course, parliament is not there to govern
Andrew - don’t get me started on that! Its bad enough that we have to continue to suffer this ongoing affront to our intelligence over expenses.
I’ve just tried buying the Tories and selling Labour on ExtraBet.
Firstly I couldn’t do it online - had to phone.
Then they would not accept my proposed stake level and knocked me down to a tenner a seat.
Then they would only do it if I’d accept less advantageous spreads.
Big deal. So the Tory spread moved from 334-339 to the latest 336-341 while Labour dropped from 224-229 to the latest 222-227.
Still their prices are much better if you want to bet this way than SPIN.
164. ‘The European Parliament expresses its gratitude to the members who, throughout their term of office, have placed their talents and their commitment at the service citizens and the European project’
Another example of the ‘end justifies the means’ mentality of the EU there. Anything is justified in furtherance of the sacred cause…
jfsl
A small number of quangos with clearly defined aims and methods are ok but the general response to a problem should not be too set up a new one.
Of course to get to the stage where government is actually held to account for its actions and mistakes recquires much more willingness by the electorate to kick out useless politicians even if they do wear the right colour rossette and possibly more chances for the people to express their will.
Just passing by, and stricken with strep throat and only have the energy to write thrillers. Commenting on here is too knackering.
However, I just HAVE to get off my deathbed to mention this.
Mike Smithson, our most congenial of hosts, might like to know that he (and the site!) gets a big fat namecheck today in…. The Bangkok Post. No kidding.
It’s an AP report on Brown’s polling comeback, and the Great Bald One is quoted as saying that the Tories are probably still gonna win cause of the advantage in the marginals.
The report also says Smithson’s site is famous for its effervescent commentary, and singles out - I kid you not - a certain seanT (ok and Morus as well, and some others too, boo) as being “highly respected pundits” with significant influence on British political thinking.
!!!
How crazy is that. We are famous in Bangers.
162: Which shows really how it’s compltely flawed. When the careers of over half the house are dependant on the patronage of the leader of the executive, no wonder it rarely (if ever) actually holds it to account.
This thing about the EU allies sucking up to Gordon and trying to help him win the election is just mad, it will drive the voters as far away from Labour as they can possibly run. Maybe they are trying to get rid him as well.
169, link?
I hope they mentioned me. I’d hate to be considered unknown in Bangkok
171. Well if you have a long memory you will recall Jacques Delors boasting about how he had brought down Thatcher. He and his friends believe that they have the ability and the right to do such things.
re 169. Here’s the AP report
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_BROWN?SITE=OHLIM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
168. JonathanD
How many Quangos are there? When was the last government term that actually reduced the number of Quangos?
If we lived in a country with “A small number of quangos”, I’d agree with you but we don’t and until Cameron delivers such then adding to the current monster of quangocracy is not bringing in ‘The Post Bureaucratic age’ and is not ‘progress’.
We are hearing an awful lot about what Quangos that Cameron is going to create but precious little about those he intends to cut (there are even doubts being cast over the pointless RDA’s I hear). It all sounds far too familiar to me.
168. Re 175 As an afterthought, its getting to the point where perhaps it would be better to elect the heads of the Quangos and scrap Parliament and the political parties? What do you think?
Alex Salmond the only party leader not to have to repay cash.
174.
lol. OK I completely and totally made up the bit about me being a “highly respected pundit with a significant influence on the British political scene”.
Mike, you ruined my fun. I wanted jealous lefties to spend hours trying to find the article.
Kudos to you for the namecheck tho. Your fame groweth apace.
169 Don’t mention you in the Delaware News Journal though Sean, Mike S & Pbetting get a mention though.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_BROWN?SITE=DEWIL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-02-02-14-05-18
175 jsfl - He will certainly cut quangos in considerable numbers. Apart from being the right thing to do, it’s an easy way of calming any disquiet from the right of the party. Just as Blair used fox-hunting, Cameron can throw a quango or two on the bonfire every time the party wobbles. The beauty of this is that, not only is it honourable and right, but also there are thousands of quangos, so he’ll never run out.
@171:
Can I just point out that there’s not the *slightest* scrap of evidence that Merkel and Sarkozy are ‘conspiring to help Gordon win’?
Given the incestuous nature of the relationship between some of Sarkozy’s, Merkel’s and some of Dave’s people, I suspect they can’t wait to see the back of the Dour One.
AAARRRRRGGGHHHHH
DAMN MY WORKING NIGHTS
Tim wins a pint.
180 - Cameron is setting up a Quango to regulate fox hunting.
Just out of interest, is this the longest period that the Tories have been out of power since 3 party politics began?
181. It is another genius line from the bunker…
“German Chancellor tells British people how they should vote!”
5 more years!
@183:
Probably not, actually. It’ll just be a part of the DCMS with a special name. An “executive agency”. They’re not quangoes, they’re just a few civil servants given a new name badge to make them feel special.
176 jfsl
I almost added the idea of electing quango heads to my post, it would be an interesting reform to persue. It would have some benefit as it would remove the party political aspect of elections and focus people’s attention to who could do that particular job best.
Alternatively perhaps for certain more technical quangos, the electorate should only be those with specialisation in that area.
183 Regulation by quango would be somewhat preferable to banning
@185:
It’s worth pointing out that in a few short weeks, the governments of the Big Four EU nations will all be right wing ones.
The notion that Sarkozy and Merkel are some how opposed to this state of affairs is laughable Guardianista wish fulfillment.
180. Richard
So the reason to scrap Quangos is for political effect is it?
Unfortunately, I get the feeling that is the primary motivation of just about all our politicians these days (the 10% cut in Parliamentary seats is another such ploy). It is perverse, wrong and not in the best interest of the country. Either Cameron has a coherent plan to cut the public sector or he doesn’t. This is taxpayers money and it should not be used for political manipulation. It just doesn’t wear anymore……
As I said above perhaps we might be better off scrapping Parliament and the political parties and electing the heads of the Quangos instead?
Increasingly in your terms I think you would consider me ‘right-wing’ and if you think paying such transparent and trivial lip-service will be sufficient you can forget it because trying too buy off factions of the party with such cheap actions will only lead to 2014 turning into a blood bath.
If its the right thing to do then you do it. You set appropriate criteria to decide what should be cut and you cut it consistently and completely. The taxpayers money is not a political toy…….
SPIN have restored their ‘Brown and Out’ market at 1037-1040. I can’t see much interest in this; now that he’s pretty well nailed on to lead Labour at the GE, it’s effectively a bet on the election date.
184. They were “out of power” 1905-22, although were major members of the coalition 1916-22….
183. Fox-Off?
The Sharp Minds say 71.6% CON 325+ and 30% 324-. These are the LTPs on the CON Seat Bands.
extrabet are very naughty,OGH. They specifically invited Tory Buyers and Labour Sellers to their party but the bouncers on the door won’t let anyone in.
186 - I thought it was Herberts Dept.
Surely not Hunt Hunts Hunt solution.
R5 - Grayling has got slapped by the ONS.
Can someone explain that to him.
189. Martin the heads of the French and German governments aren’t interested in whether the government in the UK is ‘right’ or ‘left’ wing, only in whether it will do as it is told.
Now I’ve got over missing the political mis-priced market of the year so far I’ll comment on the Indy interview.
The fact that it has happened is a testament to David Cameron and he should be applauded.
On Mr Hari. As a Cambridge contemporary I have mentioned before that I was amazed that he was able to move from writing nonsense comment pieces on how great it is to be a fat gay man in Varsity to doing exactly the same for a national newspaper.
In reality, I don’t think it has done his long-term development any good. He never had to become a better rounded (insert joke here) writer.
I suspect that he’s far more talented than his work suggests but essentially I wonder if he’s been trapped by being paid well for what is essentially his juvenilia.
He also looks bloody ill in that page one picture. He needs to do some exercise.
190 jsfl - I was responding to your doubts that Cameron would cut quangos, pointing out (perhaps in slightly flippant terms) that the political pressure means that you are wrong to doubt he will go through with it.
Actually, Cameron has done exactly what you suggest: set criteria to decide which should be cut. They are serious about this.
184. They didn’t form a government on their own between 1905 and 1922, though there were in coalition from 1916. Before that one is going back to the period between 1714 and Pitt the Younger when the Tories were out of power (though many, including himself, see Pitt the Younger as a Whig who just happened to be supported by the Tories). They didnt have a majority in the HoC between 1846 and 1874 but held minority office on their own in 1852, 1858-9, and 1866-8.
“Mirror in anti-tory article shocker….”
The laughable thing is they seem to be saying that he actually did his job well. He wasn’t employed to be nice in that role. In other words, he did what he had to do. Bodes well.
187. The problem is there is such a proliferation of them and some of them are so obscure (but even so not necessarily disposable) that it would be impossible to bring them into the democratic process.
What is needed is a bonfire of legislation simplifying the situation and making Quangos surplus to requirements. Where is most of our legislation initiated - Brussels? And so we keep on going round in the same loop that we have been going round in for the last 40 years.
192 Thanks Rod
So effectively, we get the sort of society and economy that we currently have when we let Labour loose unrestained for 13 years. Thought so.
Never again.
@196:
Runnymede, that’s delusional. France and Germany have never expected Britain to do what it’s told by them, and know it would be futile to try. They’ve known for a long time which country gives us our marching orders, and it’s definitely not in the EU.
Dave, Angela, Nicolas and Silvio will get along just peachy. Anyone who believes otherwise is being a wazzock.
http://tory-politico.com/2010/02/big-media-try-to-shutdown-tory-politico/
I hope this fellow manages to hold out. Politico (in America) sounds like it’s run by a set of wazaks.
Now that the ONS are slapping Grayling around, could this story be true?
They insist gaffe-prone Grayling is for the chop after a Tory attempt to fiddle crime figures exploded into an embarrassing row.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/02/04/david-cameron-set-to-fire-shadow-home-secretary-chris-grayling-115875-22017249/
Hi all, long time lurker currently enjoying a 4 day weekend and still not out of bed yet! Disgusting isn’t it? Anyway just found out BBC Parliament are showing the Feb ‘74 election this month (19th to be precise). There’s no particular anniversary for this election other than the recent hung parliament hubub. I’ll be catching this on the iPlayer, if just for the haircuts!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Parliament
@205:
Do you have a link from a credible source?
201 Nail, hits, head. There is WAY too much legislation - how Labour can have created over 4k new laws in 13 yrs is mind-boggling.
A group of QCs/judges etc to undertake a rolling programme of legislation review would make my day. I know ‘people’ like the comfort blanket of new laws when something goes wrong - but I can’t believe that 4000 extra laws can’t all have addressed pressing serious concerns…
Remind me, was Jacqui Smith sacked after being criticised by the ONS over her misuse of crime statistics?
205 tim - The story doesn’t say he’ll be sacked as Shadow Home Sec, but that he won’t be Home Sec in a future Cameron government. Even though it’s The Mirror, I wouldn’t be surprised if that turns out to be correct. I believe we’ve talked in the past about Pickles taking the role, which would make sense.
205. i really do hope so, but just has cam backed of brown to ensure his survival i beleive lab will back of grayling because they know who his replacement would be… david davis, who is not just popular, well liked and a good media performer, but an excellent political assassin!
From Telegraph,
It really is quite extraordinary, this new viewing system. Voters can no longer view copies of receipts. Bare details of claims are given, like this:
Transaction No. 0000000098890
Claim Ref. No. 000000
MP David Cameron
Financial Year 2009-10
Allowance Type Office running costs (IEP/AOE)
Expenditure Type Staff telephone expenses
Payee STAFF REIMBURSEMENT
Amount £9.79
Claim process date 03/04/2009
Additional Detail MOBILE BILL
Just as the final report into Parliament’s discredited old expenses regime is published, a new way of covering up details of claims has been found. Remarkable.
198. Richard - Cameron has already blown it with me. We need to get rid of Brown but thats it. Cameron ain’t going to change the world - he’s just more of the same and we’ll dispose of him in the normal manner once he too proves himself unworthy…..
209 - She bloody should have been.
Grayling reminds me of a daddy long legs which has had all bar two of its legs pulled off by a child.
Its cruel to let it go on.
Step forward Baroness Warsi.
OT and apropos of nothing much, I don’t think anyone’s posted this totally awesome attack ad by Carly Fiorina, the former CEO who is trying to fail upwards to the US Senate after nearly destroying Hewlett Packard.
It features demon sheep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo7HiQRM7BA
@210:
I don’t think Pickles is hard enough to be Home Sec.
It’s a great shame that Michael Howard is standing down. The people demand scary Home Secs. What about Gerald Howarth?
203. Obama not a big fan of Europe…
EU shambles over Barack Obama visit shows failure of Lisbon Treaty
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7155154/EU-shambles-over-Barack-Obama-visit-shows-failure-of-Lisbon-Treaty.html
Interesting urgent question in the HoC right now. The Government has just reneged on a promise to allow scrutiny of European opt-ins. Labour MP complaining bitterly.
216 - He’s have made a good Homelands Secretary in 1980’s Joburg.
203. You need to get your head out of the sand, Martin. The US may have the whip hand on security matters, but that’s as far as it goes.
The UK domestic agenda has been largely subordinated to EU wishes for many years now, and would have been to a greater extent still were it not for the efforts of eurosceptics e.g. in turning public opinion decisively against the euro.
The core EU governments are very concerned indeed at the prospect of a UK government that might aggressively pursue UK interests.
216. Pickles would be a joke as Home Secretary, though the way the Tories are going , Dave might just be stupid enough to do it.
“The people demand scary Home Secs.”
I’m not sure they do. Wasn’t Blunkett unpopular?
MPs Functions and Events list
http://mpsallowances.parliament.uk/mpslordsandoffices/hocallowances/allowances-by-mp/Functions%20and%20Events.pdf
177.”Alex Salmond the only party leader not to have to repay cash.”
oldnat, he also gets two salaries as an MP and a MSP. Yes I know he gives some of this taxpayers money to a charity of his choice in his local area, but its not anywhere near the amount of one of his salaries.
180: Richard Nabavi @ 11:07
“He will certainly cut quangos in considerable numbers.”
Really? I don’t see any evidence for this statement. I would like to suggest a modest bet that he doesn’t, but there are problems in framing such a wager.
The first problem is that I cannot find an up to date list of the Quangos that currently exist. The Taxpayers Alliance produced a spreadsheet in 2008, of which I have a copy, so I suppose we could use that as a basis - though it is almost certainly out of date.
What do you think?
221. Blunkett wasn’t scary, he was a buffoon.
http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196026
Dedicated to Stephanie “Moll” Flanders.
from bbc new ticker: Shadow home secretary Chris Grayling rebuked over his use of figures on violent crime.
Surely its now time from cam to act. Its the perfect opportunity. Babbleon about a new sort of politics… no dodgy stats in a future tory government… blah blah blah.
Stick in david davis and the media cycle will be his for the weekend.
Either David Davis or David Davies would do.
215. WOW
if I lived there I might be forced to vote for Tom Campbell, apparently he spends his spare time wandering round a field in a sheepskin wearing LED false eyes
177. Quite right too. He rarely turns up in Westminster.
labour taking a bit of a kicking in the house over eu op-outs even labour back benchers putting the boot in …. great stuff
Watchdog: Grayling ‘likely to damage’ trust in statistics
And politicians.
And tall people.
And Epsom.
Chairman of the UK Statistics Authority Sir Michael Scholar says he does “not wish to become involved in political controversy” but writes that he “must take issue” with what Mr Grayling “said yesterday about violent crime statistics”, referring to the interview on yesterday’s Today programme.
And a letter has been sent to David Cameron as well.
Put Grayling under curfew forever Dave.
Bring in the Baroness.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/02/grayling_crime_stats.html
225
David Waddington was somewhat alarming
223. Christina, sour grapes as ever. You can guarantee neither Tories or labour would have ever considered donating the extra salary to charity. Your attitude is typical of the petty attitude of the opposition politicians in Scotland. Get over it , the SNP are here to stay.
233: Oh god, you’ll get tim started on the Kiszko trial now.
233 - Particularly if he was defending you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Waddington,_Baron_Waddington
O/T no more QE
223 ChristinaD
Facts are chiels that winna ding!
In terms of “double salary’, Alex gets paid only one third of his MSP salary. The gross amount of that is paid to his charity.
If you are going to try to smear, its better to get your facts right.
235
Sorry
223 The point is that Alex Salmond is not donating his money to charity.
He is donating our money — it is taxpayer’s money.
Alex should not have multiple jobs at Westminster and Edinburgh. Multiple jobs are not defensible — whether it is Iris Robinson, or Alex Salmond, or anyone else.
237 link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8496830.stm
236: bingo!…
You are nothing if not predictable tim.
This is a big labour problem if cam does take the chance to bring back david davis. If there is one politician labour mps fear, its him!
224 HurstLama - The definitions are quite difficult. I had a recent paper somewhere - from memory, there were around 1500 but that does include some bodies you wouldn’t think of as quangos. Also, do you count individual hospital trusts?
Billericay Dave, you must be particularly proud of your Conservative MP just now?
Anyone else done a Youwotguv on the iPad?
243 What is so scary about DD? I thought he was a complete ploner when he resigned his seat.
All gesture ego-puffing.
237: time to see how the patient does without the medience.
237. Great news - god bless Sir Merv !
247 ploner = plonker
OT Wish I could spend £200bn in a calendar year…
No hes a tosser but cheaper than a labour MP !
“If there is one politician labour mps fear, its him!”
No, its Osborne, hence the direct attacks on him. Davis is, well, a bit of a maverick and possibly unsuited to a major role because of it.
240. Gwynfa, It is hardly Alex Salmond’s fault that Westminster will not let him return the salary. Show me any evidence of any of the troughers at Westminster doing anything comparable , in contrast they cannot get enough of our money by any means possible.
@232:
Warsi and tim, sitting in a tree etc.
You know, tim, much as you enjoy attacking the ShadCab, I tend to agree with you about Grayling. He’s been a uniquely unimpressive Shosec, and could do with being upgraded to a better model come May.
tim, f we’re talking resignations then why is Burnham still in post for presiding over a system which lets incompetent, illiterate doctors kill patients.
http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196109
237 Now we’ll see if anyone wants to buy Government debt instead of the … government
250 Plato
You are just not trying hard enough!
http://cityunslicker.blogspot.com/2010/02/end-qe-but-not-because-of-inflation.html
“End QE, but not becuase of inflation, but becuase there is little evidence it has revived the private sector or achieved much apart formget us further into debt and call our Soveriegn rating into question - it has only succeeded in propping up our discredited Government.”
245 no hes a t*** but cheaper than a labour MP ! and def cheaper than 5 flips darling.
@255:
Dirty boy.
I’ll have you know that Dave’s swinging JUST FINE. In fact, with a higher tumescent density and lob rate than ever before.
252 Sorry, Alex should have resigned as MP for B&B.
There was absolutely no reason not to do this. B&B is a safe seat — another SNP MP would have been returned fairly easily. I have never seen a convincing explanation of why he did not resign as an MP. What is the reason?
In that respect, oldnat’s statement at 177 was foolish, as it draws attention to a (rare) misstep by Alex.
But, is 177 even technically correct ? Did the leaders of Plaid Cymru or the UUP have to return money?
234.Oh sorry Malcolm, did I dare to mention the fact that Salmond picks up TWO SALARIES, and then bungs some of that TAXPAYERS MONEY to a charity of his choice in his local area! He could and should have stood down when he was elected to Holyrood. At least the taxpayers could have been paying for a full time employee instead of a part timer on a full salary.
And with a few MSP’s now standing for the Westminster Parliament at the GE, I hope that I don’t now see the SNP hiding behind the rules to play politics about the same situation in reverse, they wouldn’t be that hypocritical, or would they?
258. How has QE called our sovereign rating into question?
More on Greece (UK next ?)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/7153169/Greece-crisis-There-but-for-the-grace-of-God-goes-Britain.html
“For some countries, the financial crisis was painful because people suddenly started spending less. For Britain, it uncovered the fact that the nation had duped itself into believing it was more prosperous than it really was. We mistook a debt bubble and the proceeds of financial engineering for sustained and lasting growth. Time to get real”
http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196151
238.oldnat, can we check that out? I read an article which suggests that its the other way around, only a third of his salary goes to his charity, and is it also based on his lowest salary too? I was surprised at this.
262 - And isn’t Scotland’s First Minister a trougher in a very real sense? Yum, yum..
http://tinyurl.com/yato9fh
263.
Without QE Brown/Darling probably could not have run up the debts they have done.
Mr Redwood agrees.
http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2010/02/04/end-money-printing-today/
262 ChristinaD
Don’t be silly. He does not get two full salaries. He is required to take one third of his MSP salary and donates all of that money to charity.
As to holding seats in two Parliaments. Why on earth do Scottish constituencies need full time MPs at Westminster, when domestic affairs are run from Scotland?
The idea of electing members of quangos has something to recommend it. I would like to put myself forward for the following:
Advisory Committee on Conscientious Objectors
(given that conscription was abolished nearly fifty years ago this should not take up too much time)
Government Hospitality Advisory Committee for the Purchase of Wine (might be some stiff competition for this one, but someone has to undertake these demanding jobs)
Marshall Aid Commemoration Committee
(might have to travel first-class to some of the nicer parts of the USA)
Commission for the Compact
(nobody will know what it does but it might fill in some gaps in my day, and the salary will come in useful)
Any of the numerous quangos which all seek to reduce the amount of energy we use.
The idea of electing members of quangos has something to recommend it. I would like to put myself forward for the following:
Advisory Committee on Conscientious Objectors
(given that conscription was abolished nearly fifty years ago this should not take up too much time)
Government Hospitality Advisory Committee for the Purchase of Wine (might be some stiff competition for this one, but someone has to undertake these demanding jobs)
Marshall Aid Commemoration Committee
(might have to travel first-class to some of the nicer parts of the USA)
Commission for the Compact
(nobody will know what it does but it might fill in some gaps in my day, and the salary will come in useful)
Any of the numerous quangos which all seek to reduce the amount of energy we use.
Plato:
I have this e-mail address outside of business:
APJG01@googlemail.com
266 ChristinaD
I did check it out. That you misread an article, or that the article was misleading, is not evidence for anything.
“As to holding seats in two Parliaments. Why on earth do Scottish constituencies need full time MPs at Westminster, when domestic affairs are run from Scotland?”
If that is the case, then we are overpaying!
All the other Scottish MP’s who are not MSP’s are being paid way too much. Let’s give them a pay cut — as you say, there is not much for them to do!
The definitive Cam poster ?
http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196205
238.”If you are going to try to smear, its better to get your facts right.”
Oh, so its now called smearing when you dare to criticise Alex Salmond. So let me get this straight. Salmond doesn’t get paid two salaries as an MP and MSP, and he doesn’t then donate some of that taxpayers money to a charity of his choice in his local area? If that is in fact true, then where is the smear? Your original post invited this quite obvious comment.
Sorry for the double post.
271 - In fairness, there are still quite a few conscientious objectors. It covers all refusals of permission for discharge from service/resignation from commission. One suspects they are busier now than for many years.
270 Mr Llama - Compact apparently do this
“The Compact stands for better partnership working and creating better outcomes for individuals and local communities. Its commitments are divided into three areas covering ‘involvement in policy development’, ‘allocating resources’ and ‘advancing equality’.”
Straight out of TTOI
273. Salmond loves his troughing.
http://www.lovecurry.info/curryawards-2009/winners.html
Seems to be a dog not a pig in the picture though.
274 Gwynfa
Indeed. I am well known on here for being scrupulously fair to supporters of other parties, and my southern neighbour’s democratic deficit!
272 Brilliant - many thanks - have emailed you.
275: Symptoms of groupthink
1) Illusions of invulnerability creating excessive optimism and encouraging risk taking.
Mind guards — self-appointed members who shield the group from dissenting information.
2) Rationalizing warnings that might challenge the group’s assumptions.
3) Unquestioned belief in the morality of the group, causing members to ignore the consequences of their actions.
4) Stereotyping those who are opposed to the group as weak, evil, biased, spiteful, disfigured, impotent, or stupid.
5) Direct pressure to conform placed on any member who questions the group, couched in terms of “disloyalty”.
6) Self censorship of ideas that deviate from the apparent group consensus.
7) Illusions of unanimity among group members, silence is viewed as agreement.
268. I doubt that - other governments have managed to borrow similar amounts without using QE. What QE has done is reduced the immediate cost of doing so. That effect will drop out now, of course (in fact it has been doing so for some time as the end of the process has been anticipated).
The sovereign rating is going to stand or fall on what government does over the next 3-4 years, or more precisely on how credible its plan for action proves to be over that period.
276 ChritinaD
You’re still at it!
Salmond gets paid
1. an MP salary
2. ONE THIRD of an MSP salary
The gross amount of that MSP salary goes to charity.
To misrepresent the facts and suggest that he gets a whole MSP salary is smearing.
http://order-order.com/2010/02/04/gilts-plunge-on-end-of-q-e/
281 Seriously, Salmond is a politician I much admire (although I prefer the slimmer version from the early 70s that I can see in photos in my pictorial History of Plaid Cymru). He has got way too fat.
But, (as I am sure you know in your truest heart), he should have resigned as MP for B&B.
Not least, it was in the SNP’s interest. First, to remove ammunition from objectors like Christina, and second, to give another SNP-er a chance to gain valuable politicail experience as an MP.
Hmm
http://order-order.com/2010/02/04/gilts-plunge-on-end-of-q-e
286 SNAP!
285 oldnat
oldnat the bit I don’t get is why telling us he gives money to charity is somehow seen as a good thing.
It’s our money and he shouldn’t be drawing it in the first place.
He is the leading politician in Scotland and should be setting an example for the rest. I’ve got to say he’s heading down the Peter Robinson road with this one.
MPs with a sense of entitlement don’t go down well with voters.
The gift that keeps on giving.
http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196305
Homeless people: Government accused of ‘misleading’ figures
Official Government statistics, released by Ian Austin, a minister in the Department for Communities and Local Government, suggest that just 464 people are sleeping rough in England.
Crisis, the homeless charity, undertakes its own audit of rough sleepers in London on a regular basis which it then feeds to an organisation called Chain, which keeps a database of names, keeping track of those that are sleeping on the streets, have moved on and have returned. Chain’s latest annual figures, running to March 2009, indicated there were 3,472 rough sleepers in the capital alone – an increase of 15 per cent on the year before.
244: Richard Nabavi @ 12:07
“The definitions are quite difficult. I had a recent paper somewhere - from memory, there were around 1500 but that does include some bodies you wouldn’t think of as quangos. Also, do you count individual hospital trusts?”
Is is a bugger, not only is there no definitive list of what quangos exist, but there is no common definition of what quangos are. Then there is the problem of trying to find out out many staff they employ, how much the cost to run and how much money they disburse, where appropriate.
Trying to nail it all down for he purposes of a hobby bet is perhaps more trouble than it is worth. Suppose I withdraw the offer and just say I hope you are right that Cameron will, if he becomes PM, takes an axe to the quangos.
“John Mann, the holier-than-thou MP, held an event for Morgan Allen Moore (MAM), the controversial lobbyists implicated in the events surrounding Peter Hain’s resignation from the Cabinet in January 2008. MAM were the first lobbying firm ever to be kicked out of the lobbyist’s trade body. That is how bad they were.”
283
Sounds like the perfect description of the man made global warming scare-mongers to me.
“Keith Vaz, the chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, paid almost £19,000 despite being asked for just £1,514″
Guilty conscience or did the pen slip when he was writing the cheque?
292 Ah, missing a decimal place perhaps?
Anyone with eyes would be sceptical about only 400ish - there are two regulars in my own little town.
291 - I hope you’ve got your body armour on …
283. That describes the Lib-dems perfectly well done Tabman!
296 Those were expensive scatter cushions
298. Wake me when he’s over.
@293:
The Tax Payer’s Alliance compiled a list, in which they included state-owned corporations (like Channel 4 and BBC Worldwide) and chartered trusts like the BBC and NHS Trusts, but they also incorrectly included many executive agencies of government departments.
An executive agency isn’t a quango by definition, since it’s neither quasi-autonomous nor non-governmental (being wholly a part of the government department).
299 - ah, Mr Pot - let me introduce Mr Kettle.
forgot the link
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7147989/Homeless-people-Government-accused-of-misleading-figures.html
From twitter
Exit plan for Gordon? : IMF managing director indicates he will quit early, the PM has considered the job before
286. 288. 10yr gilt yields are up 4 basis points today i.e 0.04%. That doesn’t represent a plunge.
Just watched the full PMQ’s from yesterday, Brown was truely awful. Cameron was back to his old form of landing punches then watching as Brown stuttered and blundered in his replies. Did we hear one good reason for AV yesterday? Brown spent his entire replies on the subject attacking the tories, giving more credence to the attack that Brown’s only interest in trying to bring in AV is to attack the tories with the idea, not because he wants it.
I’m hoping with europe rearing it’s head again we don’t have to endure days of tim rants about Polish nazi’s etc etc backed up with either non-existant evidence or just plain crap.
275. No - it wasn’t that funny.
269.”Don’t be silly. He does not get two full salaries. He is required to take one third of his MSP salary and donates all of that money to charity.”
Now I am getting confused, where was I being silly when I posted @266 “238.oldnat, can we check that out? I read an article which suggests that its the other way around, only a third of his salary goes to his charity, and is it also based on his lowest salary too? I was surprised at this.”
Was I incorrect to suggest that his basic MSP salary is the lower one? Has Salmond not claimed his full MSP salary at all since he was elected in 2007? And again, why the immediate accusation of smearing?
306. ..a plunge in prices, I mean.
262. Christina, think you will find your Tories are pocketing significantly more than Alex, and if doing it in any other sphere would be at her majesty’s pleasure in many cases. Muck out your own byre before you start throwing accusations around. WE know where the hypocrites and troughers are.
PS 275. You didn’t have to edit your langusge on that site, as you can see - it is perfectly willing to let you say whatever you want http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=195893
296. And Vaz’s lobbying exploits are among the most impressive(slimey ****** that he is) covering over 2 pages IIRC - Sheermen, Pound and both Mitchells, Naysmith, Spring Sotate, Wayatt and Tipping amongst others have very impressive listings….
http://mpsallowances.parliament.uk/mpslordsandoffices/hocallowances/allowances-by-mp/Functions%20and%20Events.pdf
312 - it was an appreciation of medieval Kings.
278: Sir Norfolk Passmore @ 12:30
In an all volunteer army I don’t see how you can have conscientious objectors. By joining you an individual is agreeing to fight and accepting the conditions of service. I don’t know about the RAF and the Navy, but in the army one took an oath on joining which included “…obeying the generals and officers set over me” or words to that effect (it was along time ago).
An individual may object to an order but that is a matter for service discipline not about conscientious objection.
285, 290 is Eck still taking his £77,000 First Ministers Pay as well as the rest?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6284740.stm
276. Christina, read attached and then comment, one of many that coudl be quoted.
Tory expenses: Clearing moats, hanging chandeliers and helipad work – all publicly funded
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Tory-expenses-Clearing-moats-hanging.5256066.jp
Re 313 Sotate = Stoate doh (dumb fingers)
290. Maybe the fact that he is forced to take it would be a reason.
“Did we hear one good reason for AV yesterday?”
To be fair to Brown, David Owen had difficulty on Today this morning. The shortcomings of linking this to expenses is fast becoming apparent.
103: ‘Oh, goody! Let’s hope Labour do make that mistake again.’
Quite right. An embarrassing example of Lefties indulging in Me-Time in public and a tactical blunder. Mind you, I thought this business had been finally put out of its misery with the Newsnight debate on Kaminski last year. Say what you like about Dan Hannan, but at least he approached the matter with some seriousness; Denis MacShane in contrast was talking throughout in a funny voice and treating it all as one big joke.
Tim I agree that Grayling is getting near to the chop. We could then get David Davis back. Be careful Tim what you wish for……
317. At least get your facts right. The moat was not paid for.
Broadcasters are putting the finishing touches to their election night plans. Andrew Neil will be skippering Auntie’s bash on a boat. The gin palace is to be moored on the Thames, presumably so that guests can hop over the side to Mary Nightingale’s ITV party at County Hall.
A source at Sky announced that Adam Boulton will be presenting its coverage from the studio, before sniffily accusing “gimmicky” terrestrial rivals of dumbing down. This from the channel that threatened to leave an empty chair if Gordon Broon refused to join its televised leaders’ debates.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/02/mandy-movie-commons-smith-2
323 And it wasn’t a helipad - it was bushes.
314. Do you think that Ghosty is trying in vain to hold back the tide?
Nads is on the warpath - not sure this is a good idea…
http://blog.dorries.org/id-1556-2010_2_Corruption_.aspx
316. And why not he is doing the job, he takes the amount that he would be paid for the job he holds and donates the additional money to charity. I know it is hard for you Tories to accept that there is such a thing as an honest man in politics, but there you go.
Just testing how these David Cameron posters work, with the help of Steven Patrick Morrissey:
http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196448
328, so what? If he’s doing the job he’s paid for he deserves the money. If he isn’t, he shouldn’t be paid.
323, 325, Feeble Tory apologists. Oink Oink.
316.Thanks Fitaloon. I thought he was still getting two full salaries, one from Holyrood and the other from Westminster. I knew that it was a third of the lowest salary that went to this charity, the basic MSP one. That is what I understood to be the case, I should maybe have been clearer about the fact that Salmond also gets a salary as FM too on top of the others. But I hope that its clear that I was not attempting to smear Alex Salmond!!
326 - it’s possible. On a related topic, apparently Hoon’s (other) nickname was TCH.
290 Malcolm
Salmond’s forced to take a salary ? Come off it , he can either
- ask not to be paid
- not provide bank details
- take the salary and hand it straight back.
There have been other examples of politicians who have waived their salaries, perhaps he should just try harder.
Morley & Outwood special edition:
http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196461
319, Poor, poor Alex Salmond. Compelled to take thousands of pounds of public money he hasn’t earned. Compelled to claim money for food he didn’t eat at a place he never visited. Tchah, tchah.
I am still waiting for someone to explain why he did not resign his safe seat at B&B.
It was in Alex’s interests politically, (perhaps not financially). It was certainly in the SNP’s interest.
330. Morris, you being obtuse or just repeating what I posted. He more than does the job, hence the squealing from the Tories up here.
320. Exactly. The entire point of bringing up this subject seems to have been to make the tories out to be protecting the status quo. In fact both Cameron and Clegg have been pushing forward ideas for reforms since before the expenses saga began in earnest, plus the government can’t seem to come up with any good reason for it. The lib dems support PR and see this as a first step towards this, the tories oppose it as they believe in FPTP but want to reduce the number of Mp’s and strengthen committees (as do the lib dems) with parliament. Labour have delayed reform on the workings of parliament for ages and have made no statements on changing the FPTP for years. Then suddenly, shortly before a general election, they come up with this botch job and expect people to believe they want change and the tories oppose it.
315 - I’m not sure if you’re confusing pacifism with conscientious objection.
But in any event, I think you are quite wrong to see a member of the armed forces’ conditions of service with a normal employment contract as the scope to resign without consequence is much less (due to the risk of people bailing out when the going gets tough). In my view there has to be some scope where there’s a dispute about whether the person is chickening out or has a genuine reason of conscience for leaving.
329 - if it ain’t hurting, it ain’t working.
334, Alan , he tried that, they insisted he had to be paid the full amount and so he donates it to a local charity, one of the few good uses of Taxpayers money that we see in general. As I said not quite how things are done in Westminster where they cannot get enough into their personal bank accounts.
“This from the channel that threatened to leave an empty chair if Gordon Broon refused to join its televised leaders’ debates.”
How is this dumming down?
322. I’d be delighted if David Davis were to return and I suspect it would be a popular move with the voters as well.
337 Malcolm
Malcolm throughout industry there are loads of people who do more than what’s in their job description. They don’t get paid several times over.
Yesterday’s PMQs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozWMnYC0m1g
He more than does the job
If Wee Eck is such a brilliant dual representative, why is he standing down from one of them?
If he can stand down now, why didn’t he do it 2 years ago?
336. Gwynfa, Fairly obvious, he stood on the platform that he would remain for the full term and it gives him the option to attend and hold the slippery Westminster parliament to account if required. No bad thing for the Prime Minister of Scotland to be able to attend the talking shop down south if required.
344. Alan , exactly and neither does he, he gives it to charity. A rare thing an honest politician with principles.
346. Scott, see 347.
The fact that Salmond, rightly or wrongly, can be an MP and an MSP, and that Ian Paisley could (at one time)be MP, MEP and N Ireland Assemby member, proves my contention that being a backbench MP is a part time job, and therefore does not deserve a F/T salary.
They should be either encouraged to have another job (BUT not in the public sector ), or be paid extra to be on their respective front bench. Front bench salaries could be compensurate with the number of MPs a party has.
328 Eck doing all his job’s is a point of view, others might disagree. I count 4 which is a pretty good tally for one person.
FM, MSP,MP and Leader of the SNP. Worth every penny of our money
346. Perhaps he’s paid by the kilo ?
Parish clerk Alex Salmond is such a boring subject.
352 - is ‘e eckerslike?
Not like Christina to get her facts wrong, I normally accept them verbatim to be correct.
Clearly Salmond could take less, but the issue as I see it is he is legally entitled to far more.
Whereas many Tory MP’s took a lot more than they were legally entitled to; so an argument I think Christina will lose this time.
330 - David Cameron, with apologies to Robin Williams
http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196522
344 Malcolm
Why is taking money from taxpayers and giving it to a charity virtuous ?
He is not forced to take the money. If he can negotiate a two third salary reduction he can equally negotiate a three third reduction.
I don’t buy the argument his behaviour is somehow superior, given his position he sets the tone for the rest. The correct thing is to take one salary and control expenses, that way he can look the voters straight in the eye and say he’s giving value for money. At present there are very few politicians who can do this hence the general disillusion with the political classes.
348. No bad thing for the Prime Minister of Scotland to be able to attend the talking shop down south if required.
So that’s why he’s standing down?
343 - it isn’t, but the NS can’t resist a smear if it senses anyone is being nasty about the Dear Leader.
347 According to you, no MP should ever resign and cause a byelection because they stood at a General Election with the intent of remaining an MP for the full-term.
Even a grade-one sh1t of a Scottish politician, like George Robertson, resigned his seat causing a by-election when he got another job.
According to you, Robertson should have said I was elected for 5 years to represent Hamilton South, I must remain — it is no bad thing if the Sec General of NATO can come to talking shop at Westminster.
Looks like Dave is a member of the, ‘funny handshake’ mob.
I’m sure there’s an interesting story to be told today about lobbyists gaining access to the Commons by MPs hiring out rooms to entertain them. The authorities have released the full list of “banqueting office functions” booked from 2004 to 2009. (To be fair many of the guests are charities etc)
But for now it’s mainly amusement value: eg David Cameron hiring Dining Room C for “tea” with the “West Oxfordshire Lady Freemasons.”
from the FT.
292. There are quite a lot of Poles sleeping rough in Birmingham (in Aston and in Digbeth). Usually they stink of vodka and can’t speak a word of English. The police ignore them, not wishing to mess up their make-believe world of a happier, safer, Birmingham …
357. That’s terrible, really bad, even for you.
356
I think this point is crucial.
There weer MPs on all sides who were not abusing the system. They were not taking what they could get away with but only what they absolutely needed so as not to be substantially out of pocket and in some rare cases they were taking almost nothing at all.
Now as long as there were a few MPs who could see that it was wrong to abuse the system, those who did so have absolutely no defence. Any MP, from whatever party, who is now being asked to pay back money has, in my eyes, effectively been found guilty of fraud and theft - not legally perhaps but morally for sure.
357 - http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php?poster=196556
351. Good post Nigel
357 - very amusing tim (if you are a partisan Labour dweeb), but not as funny as:
http://www.facebook.com/photo_search.php?oid=272873841415&view=all
357 Gordon brown ,with apologies to the people of britain,for fcuking up your country.
http://www.topnews.in/files/gordan.jpg
five more years.
On topic, well so far nothing particularly huge has come out of this. I suspect that it will have a relatively muted effect on the “they’re all at it” argument that’s out there except in the odd case of rather large repayments.
Out of interest Guido has picked up this on our favourite MP in the North:
Balls for overpaid mortgage repayments £1,363.44.
Ed Balls paid Brown’s former press officer – Fiona Gordon – £4,000 in exes in 08/09
Yvette Cooper was overpaid by £1,363.21 in mortgage interest for the home she shares with Blinky.
111. I read and left a comment - the response was even better!
But really, if you want to mind wipe yourself further check out this article:
http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/02/cameron-britain-labour-cuts
if Tories not only eat babies, they murder all old people and start WW3 all by themselves. the internal contradictions would support the Forth bBidge.
368. Some of these are pretty good
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Change-we-see-The-real-cost-of-Labour/275301013497?v=photos
317 the worst Tories, Labour and Lib Dems have deservedly paid back overclaims and in many cases been deselected/stepping down at next election. Mr Salmond though isn’t entirely clean in Harriet’s “court of public opinion”. As Telegraph points out:
“In the 2007/08 financial year, which covers the period between the end of March 2007 and the start of April 2008, he voted on only six days in the Commons.
However, he still claimed £1,751.50 for food, or more than a third of the maximum allowed for the entire 12 months.”
On pay “He earns £80,224 as First Minister, as well as £64,766 as an MP and draws one-third of his £56,671 Holyrood salary. But he donates that third to a trust named after his late mother, Mary, to help community groups in the North East.”
371. Original story here
http://www.redragonline.com/2010/02/change-we-dont-see.html
351 Nigelj
They should be either encouraged to have another job (BUT not in the public sector ), or be paid extra to be on their respective front bench. Front bench salaries could be compensurate with the number of MPs a party has.
So you believe that legislative work for this country is properly allocated between between Brussels, Westminster and lower levels of Government then?
If you do, that is fine, but in such a case I would suggest you lobby to go the whole hog and scrap Parliament completely. After all it can’t be of much worth if you consider it to be a part-time exercise.
If however you believe in a sovereign Parliament surely that is the last institution (no matter how pathetic the current incumbents are) that you should be attempting to undermine?
Either people believe in the concept of Parliament or they don’t. They can’t have it both ways……
I like this one:
http://www.facebook.com/photo_search.php?oid=272873841415&view=all#!/photo.php?pid=178674&op=1&o=all&view=all&subj=272873841415&aid=-1&oid=272873841415&id=100000200341945
372. £300 per day on food is impressive - perhaps explains his bunter-like appearance…
Has Betfair been hacked, or have they just decided to make their homepage as ugly and unappealing as possible (without using Brown as a poster boy)?
370: The comment there is good:
Our economy is hamstrung by recession and public debt”
“many of our best-known retailers have been wiped off the high street”
“the vacant eyes of the young men on street corners testify to the devastating impact of high unemployment”
“the worst winter since the Second World War”
“The BBC, once the envy of the world, now finds its reputation tarnished”
“The railway network - already debilitated by unregulated fare rises and service cutbacks - has ground to a halt”
“the roads are a disgrace, scarred with potholes”
“elderly people quietly freezing to death in their unheated homes”
“In health and education, the culture of league tables prevails”
This is cheating - you’ve just copied and pasted last month’s Daily Mail headlines.
New Statesmen columnists have a sterling record in correctly predicting the future.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
370. That article is awful, even the start picture looks like it was done in five minutes on a windows 95 version of paint. It paints everything the tories do in government as going disastorously wrong, every tiny little decision they make seems to blow up in their faces. Seems like a Labour wishlist put in a bad article.
380:Seems like a Labour wishlist put in a bad article.
Umm, it IS a labour wishlist put in a bad article.
jsfl: I very much do believe in parliament, though the contention (as believed by some) that no-one should have outside interests is absurd when we have a system that allows someone to be a constituency MP and PM, Foreign Secretary, Home Secretary etc, or also be an MSP, MEP etc. If there is enough spare capacity then obviosly being a backbench MP is not worthy of a FT salary. Does anyone complain that if their MP is promoted to a cabinet position thay are getting less of his/her time?
My own preference is for a system that creates greater seperation between legislature and executive, with a directly elected PM, and possibly a cabinet who are not just made up of constituency MPs. We can then have a lot less MPs, and then it would probably justify a FT salary
339: Sir Norfolk Passmore @ 13:09
“In my view there has to be some scope where there’s a dispute about whether the person is chickening out or has a genuine reason of conscience for leaving.”
I don’t like the term “chickening out” and, from my experience, it doesn’t feature in modern service life - particularly at the sharp end, where everyone has to depend on each other.
In today’s services there are standard procedures for signing out, if you don’t fancy the life any more, for what ever reason.
Conscientious Objection was a term introduced after conscription was introduced in 1916. A CO was defined as someone who sought to refuse to perform military service on grounds of conscience or religion. How can that be a valid concept when military service is entirely voluntary?
Given the conditions of service today, I would be keen to learn under what circumstances you think any one can be a conscientious objector and, especially, need a committee to adjudicate on their case.
[382] - Does anyone complain that if their MP is promoted to a cabinet position thay are getting less of his/her time?
No, you misunderstand the difference between a backbench MP and an MP who is a member of the government. It’s not a matter of the time they have to devote to “constituency work” but that they do different types of work within the legislature.
The primary role of the backbench MPs should be to scrutinise the work of the MPs who are members of the government, which is clearly not something that a member of the government is going to be doing in the same way. As well as debating legislation, etc, [where there is currently too much legislation and not enough debate].
An MPs work in the constituency should be much more about trying to open up the political debate that should be occurring in Parliament, and less about taking up grievances of one kind or another, as often seems to eb the measure of a “good constituency MP” these days.