Should the Telegraph have checked with the HMRC first?

May 31st, 2010

Are they trying too hard to find a story?

There was a lot of heated argument on the overnight thread about the basis of Telegraph’s splash lead attack the new Treasury Secretary, Danny Alexander.

This is all about capital gains tax on property which, as most are aware, does not apply to your main residence. It also, as I myself discovered some time back, does not apply for the final three years of ownership - even if you are not living at the property as long as it has been your only main home at some point. (see final paragraph reproduced above)

That was the case with Mr Alexander who essentially is being accused of not paying a tax when no tax was due.

Over the past fifteen months the Telegraph has done a great job with its MPs expenses investigation and there’s a sort of assumption that if you are named in a splash lead like this then you are “guilty”.

This case is not about flipping or some of the other practices that were revealed.

I believe that the paper was trying too hard and that could undermine its credibility with further exposes.

Can I thank alex on the previous thread for digging up the relevant rules and regulations.

Mike Smithson

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138 comments to “Should the Telegraph have checked with the HMRC first?”

They’re trying too hard, and acting like a set of pricks.
by Morris Dancer May 31st, 2010 at 07:47
Telegraph fail
by woody662 May 31st, 2010 at 07:47
smarkets - Next Cabinet minister to leave?

Cable 30%
Huhne 15%
Spelman 15%
May 11%
Clegg 10%
Fox 9%
Moore 8%
Paterson 8%
Strathclyde 8%
Clarke 7%
Gillan 5%
Gove 5%
Mitchell 5%
Lansley 4%
(Alexander 3% - suspended)
Hague 3%
Hammond 3%
Hunt 3%
Osborne 3%

PoliticalSmarkets
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 07:51
- “Are they trying too hard to find a story?”

No, however they ARE focussing on the WRONG story.

As far as I can see the CGT stuff was within the letter (if not the spirit) of the law.

HOWEVER, the £1,800 he claimed in Parliamentary Exenses for a bill from his accountant for PERSONAL tax advice, and completion of his PERSONAL self-assessment form, is well beyond the pale. The condemnation of Labour ministers caught doing this was near-universal at PB. I wonder why so many PBers have now changed their tune?
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 07:56
By his own account, the next 48 hours were “very difficult and distressing” and surely among the worst of his life. The ordeal began with a fax from The Daily Telegraph. With unredacted data from an expenses disk, it had established that he had rented accommodation from James Lundie, a lobbyist.

The newspaper wanted to know: was it true that Mr Lundie was his partner? According to friends, Mr Laws knew that he would have to quit as soon as he read that letter at about 10.30 on Friday morning. Mr Lundie was his partner, a fact that he had tried to conceal out of a desire to keep his sexuality private. But in doing so he had risked breaking Commons rules that since 2006 explicitly bar claims for renting property from partners or relatives.

Within an hour David Cameron and Nick Clegg were informed of the impending disaster. In their rose garden press conference the Lib Dem leader predicted “bumps and scrapes” ahead — losing the coalition’s star performer after 18 days is a bit worse than that.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7140867.ece
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 07:56
The Daily Telegraph throughout the Expenses saga has mixed facts, supposition and accusation. It’s what editors do to sell papers. The public are crudulous, ready to believe the worst of politicians and with figures like Martin Bell & Sir Alistair Graham (nicely described as the Madame Defarges of politics) able to go on the media & demand the heads of any politician who has seemed to have erred in any way.

I’ve had enough of these stories, action has been taken to reform MPs expenses and it’s time to start again and accept that what happened in the last parliament & the ones before happened but it’s over. Sorry DT but dredging this all up again won’t bring you new readers or more revenue.
by Ted May 31st, 2010 at 08:00
FPT

202
214

PR for local government perhaps?

The defence of Libdems by people who only a few weeks ago, leapt on any chance to discredit them, is something worthy of Winston Smith’s Ministry of Truth: where is Martin Day when you need him?

The downfall of David Laws a man whose financial genius surpassed, ‘Aaron the Jew of Lincoln’ is we are told a calamity on a par with the Battle of the Somme. Law’s replacement by Alexander someone who may not even be able to add up and take away, the country is supposed to accept with out a murmur.

The only qualification Alexander seems to have for the job, he’s a Libdem. Is it part of the, ‘Iceberg Agreement’ (you only see a small part of it) that Cleggeron drew up, is that certain jobs are,’Ring Fenced’ for Libdems. How long will Conservative MP’s put up with that.

‘Perish the Coalition’

by coldstone May 31st, 2010 at 7:58 am

Hmmm it wasn’t so long ago that the left used to complain about the Tory Press and its smears and lies, now its the right and the not so right.
by coldstone May 31st, 2010 at 08:01
Stuart Dickson @3

Danny Alexander is not suspended on the next cabinet exit market - it is just that there’s nobody ready to lay him at the moment.
by Mike Smithson May 31st, 2010 at 08:01
Perhaps someone ought to investigate the tax arrangements of journalists and newspaper owners. Are they all whiter than white?
by Exeunt Omnes May 31st, 2010 at 08:04
8. Mike

Ta. I remember that Cable was also marked in light grey (rather than black) yesterday, but it just stood “N/A”, without clarification of what that meant.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 08:05
Stuart Dickson @10

I’ve put a lay bet up at 50% - should be easy money if there are mugs who will take it.
by Mike Smithson May 31st, 2010 at 08:11
9

Start with Dave’s new best friend Murdoch could you!

Mel the Avenger on the attack.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1282762/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-What-reminder-politicians-talk-changing-world-time-start-counting-spoons.html

Hmmm it wasn’t supposed to be like this was it? Ask Easterross.
by coldstone May 31st, 2010 at 08:14
9. Exeunt Omnes

Two wrongs don’t make a right.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 08:14
Constituency sizes in England are not unfair to the Conservatives

We covered a lot of this in the Iain Dale Tweet thread yesterday.

If you look at the 32 largest and 32 smallest constituencies, they are equally divided between Labour and Conservative.

Likewise if you consider the top 266 and bottom 266 (ie top and bottom halves of 533).

The average size of the electorate in Conservative seats is 69,550 as against 69,350 for the LibDems and 69,180 for Labour.

It is a myth that constituency sizes in England skew the electoral system towards Labour. Wales is the land of small constituencies, not England.
by John L May 31st, 2010 at 08:14
9. Can be even more difficult when it comes to living arrangements, particularlyif the journalist has been copying John Terry’s lifestyle in many ways.
by dr spyn May 31st, 2010 at 08:15
Exeunt Omnes @9:

Perhaps someone ought to investigate the tax arrangements of journalists and newspaper owners. Are they all whiter than white?

The Barclay Brothers - owners of the Telegraph Group - are tax exiles in Monaco.

This campaign of vilification comes directly from them. It’s nauseating to have multi-millionaires who don’t pay a penny in UK tax telling MPs, Danny Alexander in this instance, that they should have paid MORE tax on a particular transaction.

Worse still, that they should be giving any kind of ‘guidance’ on how and where UK taxes should be levied.

I cancelled my order for the Daily Telegraph exactly a week ago but retained the Sunday Telegraph.

Yesterday’s edition was splattered from front to back with b*llsh*t on CGT and their special pleadings. That too will now be cancelled. These are small gestures, I know, but short of participation in a national, mass campaign - say a ritual burning of a copy of the DT bought and paid for by demonstrators on the steps of every newsagent in the land - I’m uncertain as to what else I can do.

Under the current owners, the products of the Telegraph group should be shunned at every opportunity. I shall sadly have to consider cancelling my subscription to The Spectator which I have been buying for over 30 years.
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 08:16
12. coldstone - “Ask Easterross.”

I am still using Google to try to find the PB thread where Easterross made an astonishingly scathing pre-GE attack on Danny Alexander, while simultaneously praising Fergus Ewing MSP to the high heavens.

Be warned Mark: I WILL find it!
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 08:17
Good morning all and I have to ask, with such sloppy journalism, what does the Telegraph want, another 13 years of Labour government and the end to UK PLC? they are certainly going the right way about it.

Let’s have an ivestigation into the private lives and finances of all the smug bastards at the Telegraph. After all they are public figures!

Yes I know the MPs have spent taxpayers money. But for any journalist who has hired accountants to reduce his/her tax bill by legitimate means to carp on about politicians doing exactly the same thing reeks of rank hypocracy.
by Easterross May 31st, 2010 at 08:18
!! and here is the man himself!
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 08:19
This is what you should know about the Barclay brothers hattip Wikipaedia.

“On 11 December 2008, the Barclay brothers were in the news for pulling out their investments (which include hotels) from the island of Sark, causing 100 staff to be made redundant (one sixth of the population) and threatening the economic stability of the island after local voters did not support candidates championed by the Barclay brothers. The brothers had previously warned that if the voters chose to bring back the ‘establishment’ Sark leaders that are still aligned with the feudal lord then they would pull out of Sark”
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 08:21
Interesting to see the the wagons circling around another LD minister today.

Totally understandable of course.

Would pb have done the same six months ago under a different govt? Or would it have put its big boots on?
by Jonathan May 31st, 2010 at 08:21
The Smearograph and their new allies coldstone and Stuart Dickson hard at it agsin . Losing elections ,akes bitter people and strange bedfellows .
by Mark Senior May 31st, 2010 at 08:25
GeoffH @16

…So it was for poor David Laws. Contrary to the huffing and puffing today from those ghastly self-appointed Madame Defarges of modern political morality – Martin Bell and Sir Alistair Graham – he didn’t have to go over his expenses.

Of course, it looked terrible: the chief secretary in a government devoted to cuts busting the rules because he could not bring himself to reveal that he loved his landlord. Every hack in the land can preach about the hypocrisy and the tragedy and how a meteor has shattered and why, in the end, he had to quit because voters just wouldn’t stand for it. But that amounts to a judgment about appearances, not the proper penalty for his error – the media deducing his fate from the predictable nature of its own reporting and then blaming the public for taking a view it might not, in reality, hold.

…What pulled him down was a creditable but misplaced sense of shame. The horror of what has just happened is that a man of quite exceptional nobility has been broken if not for our entertainment, then because of a process that no one seems able to stop. Politicians good and bad have been destroyed in this search for some perfect morality. The canker started in the Daily Telegraph, a paper that professes to support national institutions but whose tax-exiled owners have discovered that they can grow richer by purchasing outrage than by judging facts fairly. But the disease has infected us all: the new parliament hiring spin doctors who cost more than MPs to explain to the press the nature of the tortures that will be inflicted on any MP who spends too much on stamps.

Even so, Laws would have endured if he had not found his sexuality blasted into the public domain – the Telegraph running a blurred snatched photograph of his partner. Some people will dislike the argument that sexuality had anything to do with his downfall, as if gay men are asking to be excused from rules that apply to others. But Laws did not ask to be excused. He simply ended up in an awful mess. People do, sometimes.

It is easy, after the weekend’s events, to wonder why he did not come out – easy to wonder too why it is the most liberal of parties whose MPs often seem to have found the public announcement of their sexuality difficult. Had he done so, he could have claimed more in expenses for both of them and we would all have chirruped what a tolerant country that showed us to be. But we are not, in every regard, a tolerant country – and to keep your sexuality private is not the same as being ashamed of it. Ben Bradshaw diminished himself yesterday by suggesting as much. He might have directed his scorn instead towards those many gay MPs who have felt it necessary to marry. Or, better still, just stayed silent.

…But however miserable the individual loss – and Laws’s resignation statement on Sunday was achingly sad – the greater harm is to the cause he represented. His resignation was a precision-targeted missile tearing into the coalition. The loss of almost any other minister would have been better. He was the one man all Conservatives saw as preferable to any of their own, and the one man who could stand alongside George Osborne at the Treasury and strengthen him. Osborne’s own description – “it was as if he had been put on Earth to do the job asked of him” – was spot on. What began as two parties in one government is already closer to just two parties now.
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 08:25
18. Easterross

But Mark, surely any journalist who has hired accountants would be paying the subsequent invoice FROM THEIR OWN BANK ACCOUNT? Not with taxpayers’ money.

That is Danny Alexander’s problem: he is now crippled in this key job.

From a purely partisan point of view, I hope that he manages to cling on. His continuing in office has now utterly crippled the Libservative cuts programme. But it would be far better for the UK economy if Cameron sacked him immediately.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 08:28
17 Stuart,
I said that in my experience and that of my professional colleagues Danny Alexander was as useful as a chocolate teapot. Several of my professional colleagues in Inverness have gone to Fergus Ewing for help because Danny was hopeless.

I stand by that. Facts are facts.

However Danny did impress me in the way he handled the LibDem side of the coalition talks. I hope he will prove to be a good Treasury Number 2 but following in David Laws shoes will not be easy.

Meanwhile did you read in Saturday’s Scotsman the article about the new Holyrood boundaries and the fact that Nicola looks toast?
by Easterross May 31st, 2010 at 08:29
Plato @23
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/may/30/felled-shame-david-laws
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 08:32
21. Jonathan - “Would pb have done the same six months ago under a different govt? Or would it have put its big boots on?”

Here is the answer to your question. Happy reading!

http://www4.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/05/25/expenses-its-back-to-exposing-the-cabinet-again/

(hat-tip: Edmund in Toyko on previous thread)
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 08:32
4 - No the CGT stuff was entirely within both the letter AND spirit of the law. No CGT on Main Residence. If it was outside of the spirit of the law, there wouldn’t have been a specific relief designed to allow 3 years grace. It doesn’t even qualify as a “loophole”, which is usually a way of avoiding taxation which has not been specifically written into legislation.

And contrary to some of the rubbish on here it is simply a myth that Conservative supporters on here were anywhere unanimous in their views of the whole Telegraph campaign from the beginning. Many whilst accepting their was a story to be exposed were strongly opposed to the tabloid, scattergun approach that they took. In particular their failure to concentrate on serious abuses in favour of smearing the whole political class as a whole.
by alex May 31st, 2010 at 08:37
26. The MPs who are on trial are small fry. The distinction between Ministers and MPs became blurred, the duck house and moat claims masked more unsavoury actions of serial flippers in The Treasury and other Departments.
by dr spyn May 31st, 2010 at 08:40
29. reply was to 28.
by dr spyn May 31st, 2010 at 08:41
Plato @26
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article7140697.ece
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 08:42
iaindale

Will be on the Today Programme at 8.45 with Kelvin MacKenzie at 8.45, and then at 9am on the 5 Live Phone in talking about coming out.
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 08:42
And the fact is that the evidence of the General Election was that the expenses ’scandal’ wasn’t nearly as resonant with the Electorate as rabid press screaming “transparency” and “public interest” would have us believe.
by alex May 31st, 2010 at 08:47
22. Mark Senior

Try countering the substantive points Mark, rather than just pointing your finger and screeching.

Just a little friendly tip.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 08:50
As for as I’m aware, the British public doesn’t elect journalists or editors, I’m also not aware that Journalists working for the national press, are paid by the taxpayer. If there are problems with employees of any newspaper group fiddling expenses then thats an internal affair.

If the, ‘Coalition’ wishes to make the press pay more in taxes, then all it has to do is impose VAT on publications: bet it won’t!
by coldstone May 31st, 2010 at 08:52
25. Easterross

Thank you. I respect your integrity Mark.

Re. Nicola’s chances under the new boundaries: we’ll see Mark, we’ll see. I think that we all ought to be a bit calmer in our predictions from now on.

By the way, several other MSPs are in just as big a pickle as Nicola, if not more so. Eg the Lib Dem Tolson in Dunfermline, and the Labour chappie in East Renfrewshire (he has lost Barrhead!!)
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 08:55
>iaindale

>Will be on the Today Programme at 8.45 with Kelvin MacKenzie at 8.45, and then at 9am on the 5 Live Phone in talking about coming out.

Certain ironies there.

One can always remember the deep sensitivity Kelve displayed in outing gays when he was editor of The Sun.
by johnf May 31st, 2010 at 08:58
Stuart Dickson @27

Mr. Dickson - you are my role model when its comes to objectivity.
by Mike Smithson May 31st, 2010 at 09:00
Mike, this site was far better when the Lib Dems were an irrelevance and the editorial content was not so affected by your personal position.

To glibbly claim it was his main home at some point so no CGT is due is to intentionally miss the story - he told different stories to the tax man and the expenses man to massimise his fiscal position with each.

Whether it is against the rules is neither here nor there - it is clearly behaviour totally unacceptable in the new post-expenses-gate climate, and I hope he has the sense to not try and defend it.

That it relates so clearly to the CGT potato just makes it all the more fun!
by Adam May 31st, 2010 at 09:00
The top 10 stories on Yahoo linked to the Telegraph don’t include this story. However, HMRC Tax Code Blunder story is highlighted.
by dr spyn May 31st, 2010 at 09:01
Are the British media deliberately sabotaging this country or are they being led by the nose?
In the past month there have been 3 somewhat irrelevant stories all of which could have profound effects on our debt ridden society.,
The first was the Daily Mail expose on Lord Triesman. A nothing story of very little interest. Cost t0 Britain not only the World Cup, but the 3 billion pounds that went with it - that’s half the latest cuts.
Second the Fergie expose by the News of the World. Fergie is an easy target and could have been ‘got’ over practically anything. But the News of the World decided to go with her husband’s role as our International Trade representative. If you have ever lived and worked abroad you would know just how important this role is for helping British firms get export orders. How badly has this affected this role and the future of British exports in many parts of the world? The cost to the country if he has lost face in certain countries could be incalculable.
And lastly the David Laws scandal. by the Daily Telegraph. This article was written with one purpose only in mind. To destroy the man and force him to resign. The person most able to lead up out of our troubles has gone and the country is now in greater peril than ever from the market speculators. Lets see how the market reacts to his disappearance on Monday, but one thing is sure he will be hard to replace in a manner which will keep their fears in check. The DT could have come up with nothing more calculated in forcing us closer to the Greek experience.
by patricia wilkie May 31st, 2010 at 09:03
39 - Are you actually capable of reading the regulations posted above?

Which bit of “the final 3 years qualify for relief even if you aren’t living there“ie. no longer your main residence - entirely consistent with his position viz expenses; from 2005 it was his second home) is so difficult to comprehend?
by alex May 31st, 2010 at 09:04
Isn’t it time something was done about megalomaniac octagenarian newspaper proprietors who command a central role in our politics while not paying a penny of our taxes?

You could start with the Barclay’s and Murdoch (and I wonder what his childrens’ tax positions are) and the proprietor of the deeply anti-EU Mail who resides in I believe France.

And why not get back to the informal system we had before 1980 that no megalomaniac was allowed to own more than two national papers?
by johnf May 31st, 2010 at 09:05
TELEGRAPH JOURNALISTS AVOID £50,000 TAX (liability)

I understand that virtually all of the Telegraph journalists who have worked there for more than a decade have managed to avoid liability on about £50,000 of their income (over the past ten years).

They have been universally exploiting a loophole within the tax system called “the personal allowance”. Under this loophole, the first few thousand pounds of income in any year is not seen as liable for income tax.

Many will also have used a similar loophole with employees national insurance. If any Telegraph journalists have not used this “loophole”, let them come forwards now.
by Andy Cooke May 31st, 2010 at 09:05
43 Shocking. Did they stand on an anti tax-loophole platform at the General Election?
by Jonathan May 31st, 2010 at 09:07
Under Cameron’s proposed new rules, an MP can be recalled by his constituency if his expenses are found to be out of order, and submitted to a byelection. If that were to happen, Laws would survive I would think and could return to government after winning a democratic pitched battle.

He would need incredible personal and moral strength to stand in a byelection in which he was the only issue. What an ordeal that would be. It would be a way back for him though.

BUt
by Tapestry May 31st, 2010 at 09:14
38. Our Mighty Host

We all need someone to look up to Mike. You have made a very wise choice in picking me as your idol.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 09:14
Jonathan @44:

43 Shocking. Did they stand on an anti tax-loophole platform at the General Election?

I’ve had a quick look on google for the specifics of the Lib Dem CGT policies at the General Election, but can’t see them proposing to remove the three year rule. Only a quick look, however, and you may know better.

Bear in mind that the Telegraph may have an anti-income-tax-loophole campaign of some description at some point in the next three years, so their journalists really should get their affairs in order over this, wouldn’t you say? How embarassing would it be for a campaign in 2013 that may be vaguely related to this issue being derailed by this information?
by Andy Cooke May 31st, 2010 at 09:15
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7786349/French-admit-they-are-racist.html
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 09:17
39. Adam - “Mike, this site was far better when the Lib Dems were an irrelevance and the editorial content was not so affected by your personal position.”

Spot on Adam. But you are wasting your time. Mike & Co. are now firmly in “Transmission” mode. They have turned off the “Receiver” function for the time being.

Shadsy is going to be laughing all the way to the bank.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 09:18
44. Jonathan - “Did they stand on an anti tax-loophole platform at the General Election?”

Indeed.

The Lib Dems’ hubris is now being followed by their nemesis. Alexander is a Greek tragedy in the making.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 09:21
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/7563546/Russias-inflatable-decoy-weapons-and-military-hardware-in-pictures.html
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 09:22
45. Tapestry - “… an MP can be recalled by his constituency if his expenses are found to be out of order, and submitted to a byelection. If that were to happen, Laws would survive…”

But would Danny Alexander survive a recall election?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/election2010/results/constituency/838.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/vote2007/scottish_parliment/html/337.stm
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 09:24
44. “43 Shocking. Did they stand on an anti tax-loophole platform at the General Election?”

No. They were banging the “sort our the economy” drum, now that the new government has started to do so, by taxing capital gains in a similar way to regular income, the Telegraph has lost its mind and thrown its toys from the pram.

As somebody who has read the Telegraph all his life, and would like to see the economy fixed ASAP, and who accepts tax rises are unavoidable, I have not got a clue what the Telegraph wants any more. It’s not as though they a proposing an alternative solution.

The Barclay’s are making me wish Conrad Black still owned the paper.
by glw May 31st, 2010 at 09:25
50

Alexander is a Greek tragedy in the making.

Luvit!!

Hmm if back in the 80’s (when the Sun & Mail tore into Labour at every opportunity) you’d have told me, I’d be hearing Tories moaning about the dreadful behaviour of the Tory Press, I’d have laughed in ‘yer face.

The biter bit, indeed!
by coldstone May 31st, 2010 at 09:28
Stuart, just popping as it’s a bank holiday and I don’t intend to spend all day on pb but ref my comments yesterday, I was accidently working off the 2005 results rather than 2010 ones - oops. That still gives a good indication of base support but explains why some of my comments were a bit difficult to reconcile against the last election!

I’d still maintain that despite the swing against him, Ming’s seat is (a) very safe - 9000 / 20%+ majority, combined with a split opposition and (b) difficult to split into two or more under a boundary review given the natural boundaries it sits within. Furthermore, as the Tories are in second (and gained this last time), but the seats around are not exactly Tory-abundant, it’d be very difficult for the LDs to start with anything other than a healthy lead in at least one successor seat.

Anyway, as I say - other stuff to do today, as has most of the country, which is why this non-story will remain a non-story. It does, however, reinforce the point that The Telegraph is most assuredly not in the government’s camp.
by David Herdson May 31st, 2010 at 09:28
55. “and gained this last time” should read “and gained last time”.
by David Herdson May 31st, 2010 at 09:30
Stuart Dickson @52

Mr. Dickson. As I was saying yesterday your “expertise” on Scottish Lib Dem seats is almost non-existent.
by Mike Smithson May 31st, 2010 at 09:30
Disappointing for anyone who had thought that the SNP’s lamentable performance in the GE would lead to less chippy sanctimonious teeth-grating whingeing from the odious Stuart Dickson, but no he’s mounting his high Shetland Pony again.

Turn it in you boring boring sad pathetic man.

Utter cobblers from the Telegraph as well, rapidly turning into the Ted Heath of the DTM. What are they FOR nowadays?
by JonC May 31st, 2010 at 09:32
coldstone @54

Mr. Coldstone. How could he have paid the tax? My recall, admittedly from nearly ten years ago, is that when you fill in the HMRC form you would have had to indicate whether the property had in the past been a main residence. The process would have stopped anyone paying.
by Mike Smithson May 31st, 2010 at 09:34
The telegraph wont to destroy the coalition otherwise why are they just looking at attacking the treasury Im sure they have just as much dirt of every mp but just pick and choose who they wont to annoy.
by Paul b May 31st, 2010 at 09:42
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander has said he paid all taxes due after selling his second home.

The Daily Telegraph reported that Mr Alexander avoided paying Capital Gains Tax (CGT) by describing a flat in London as his main home to Revenue and Customs, while living mostly in Scotland.

So will the D/T say SORRY?
by John S May 31st, 2010 at 09:43
Barclay Brothers added to the space cannon list (double-shotted).
by Morris Dancer May 31st, 2010 at 09:45
Some people are clearly incapable of understanding the difference between a ‘loophole’ - usually some sort of (deliberate or otherwise) ambiguity or omission in the legislation - and a “tax relief”, a clause specifically written into legislation as an exemption that people are expected, indeed almost mandated to use. If somebody paid tax due to a failure to know about the relief the HMRC would possibly even be required to offer and issue a refund.
by alex May 31st, 2010 at 09:47
I read Spain lost its AAA rating on Friday, and the French are warning that they may lose theirs also.
Nothing on the News about this?
by John S May 31st, 2010 at 09:49
52 - The only way Danny Alexander would fail to retake the seat is if his party deselected him or if Easterross abducted him and kept him prisoner at his remote farmhouse for an unhealthy number of years.

In reality, I think that we can rest assured that the full trajectory of the life of this representative of the political class will describe a glorious arc upon the firmament from PPE to lobbyist to MP to ermined senescence without too much interruption.
by Stephen B May 31st, 2010 at 09:51
The Telegraph have got too big for theit boots since the expense’s expose, IMO.
by GIN May 31st, 2010 at 09:51
alex @28: “And contrary to some of the rubbish on here it is simply a myth that Conservative supporters on here were anywhere unanimous in their views of the whole Telegraph campaign from the beginning. Many whilst accepting their was a story to be exposed were strongly opposed to the tabloid, scattergun approach that they took. In particular their failure to concentrate on serious abuses in favour of smearing the whole political class as a whole.”

Spot-on, alex.

The big problem with the Telegraph, right from the start, was that they just hosed manure at the entire political class, making little or no distinction between justified and unjustified criticism. This transcended party lines. For example, I remember being very critical last year of their treatment of Sir Alan Beith, which seemed very unfair.

They had a real story to tell, but they over-played it, causing unnecessary damage to the innocent and letting the guilty, or dubious, get away in the general mud-fest.

The front-page attack on Danny Alexander is absurd.

A once-great newspaper, now sadly declined, with some of their commentators verging on the loony. The Matt and Alex cartoons are virtually the only remaining reasons to read it.
by Richard Nabavi May 31st, 2010 at 09:51
Tapestry @45:

If that were to happen, Laws would survive I would think and could return to government after winning a democratic pitched battle.

Survive?

He’d return in triumph. I rather wish he does take the bye-election route. Someone needs to stuff it to the Barclay brothers and the Telegraph Group.
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 09:51
Seen this on Spain ref AAA rating
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-28/spain-loses-aaa-rating-at-fitch-as-europe-battles-debt-crisis.html

And this on France
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100531/tbs-france-must-cut-spending-or-lose-aaa-5268574.html

I wonder what Brown thinks of this?
by John S May 31st, 2010 at 09:53
Talking of news items - I see that Israel has killed 10 or so pro-Palestine activists who were on board a convoy of vessels trying to send relief to Gaza through the embargo. The commenters over at the Guardian are absolutely wetting themselves in indignation.

I expect our own resident Israel worshipper (not) and former POTY SeanT will be drafting up some suitably worded invective as we speak.
by Patrick May 31st, 2010 at 09:56
Richard Nabavi @67:

The front-page attack on Danny Alexander is absurd.

It’s more than absurd. It’s mendacious, it’s hypocritical.

How much UK tax did the Barclay brothers pay last year? From their address in Monaco?
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 09:57
Patrick Euro News are now saying 14 dead.
by John S May 31st, 2010 at 09:58
Richard Nabavi @67:

The Matt and Alex cartoons are virtually the only remaining reasons to read it

The animal photos and Weird sections are good too

I only resort to reading it online when bored or if Jeff Randell is having a pop.

Otherwise, it’s a strange lovechild of the Mirror and Daily Star zelebrity coverage.
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 09:59
72 Whatever the number is there has clearly been something of a serious firefight on board this Turkish ship. The IDF claims they were fired upon when boarding the vessel from helicopters. The activists claim they just came in shooting. Who knows.

Me? I couldn’t give a stuff either way. I was utterly bored to tears of the whole Middle East ‘peace process’ thing about 15 years ago. Nowadays I revel in my ‘couldn’t give a fuc*edness’ for whatever is done by or to either side.
by Patrick May 31st, 2010 at 10:02
Spain Debt downgrade article from t’grandianu

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/30/euro-spain-credit-downgrade

There is a story from Friday on Al Beeb, nothing on France.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10188324.stm
by dr spyn May 31st, 2010 at 10:04
14. Going through the Times list of constituencies suggests something else. They show that most English Conservative seats have over 70,000 voters, and most English Labour seats have fewer. Perhaps the Times is wrong, but I’ve always assumed that it’s a paper of record on such matters.

63 Whether it’s ignorance, or wilful ignorance, it’s hard to say. It seems pretty harsh if someone can be hounded out of office for acting entirely within the letter and spirit of the rules laid down by HMRC. In fact, who would enter public office, if that were the case?

What next? Someone inherits their parent’s estate, and they’re expected to resign for claiming unused nil rate band?
by Sean Fear May 31st, 2010 at 10:07
Those lucky enough to have 2 houses will still normally not pay CGT unless they are foolish enough to sell them both in the same financial year. A taxpayer is entitled to elect which house they wish to use their exemption for provided they have spent a reasonable amount of time in each and will obviously select the one they are selling.
Similarly an MP has, or at least had, total freedom to select which was their “second home” in terms of the allowances and almost every MP selected the one with the biggest mortgage.
It is totally misleading to claim that selecting your main residence was in some way inconsistent with use of your CGT election. The Telegraph have simply got this wrong.
It is galling that the capital gain is retained by the MP when it is the taxpayer who has paid for the home. I recall Clegg in the expenses scandal indicating such a gain should be returned to the taxpayer. This has nothing to do with tax but quite a lot to do with morality. That was not the rules at the time and Alexander has done nothing wrong. In future if only rent is paid the problem will not arise.
This is really a non story and like others I can only conclude that the Barclay brothers are determined to undermine the coalition. The coalition and their supporters should respond accordingly.
by DavidL May 31st, 2010 at 10:08
73. Matt, Boris and Randall for me. The Telegraph is not the paper it used to be. Anyone who insists on calling it the Torygraph clearly doesn’t read it, a lof of the staff appear to be UKIP supporting, and there are a number of New Labour fans as well, this results in the paper’s editorial line being all over the shop.

Many of the best writers of old have passed away or moved on. The change of ownership, the move to the new multimedia offices, the lifestyle crud that has grown, and the restaffing have changed the Telegraph in an almost entirely negative way. The Telegraph is still a better paper than the Independent, Guardian or Times in my opinion, but no longer by a wide margin, and in absolute terms it has fallen far.
by glw May 31st, 2010 at 10:09
57. Mike Smithson - “As I was saying yesterday your “expertise” on Scottish Lib Dem seats is almost non-existent.”

You are of course quite right. As always. Prior to the GE I was certain that the Lib Dems were going to gain Edinburgh North & Leith and Edinburgh South, and run Labour extremely close in Aberdeen South and Glasgow North. HOW WRONG I WAS!!!
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 10:09
78 (cont)

… however, I did correctly predict that Labour would re-gain Dunfermline & West Fife from Willie Rennie, so I am not completely clueless.

By the way PtP, how much cash did you earn from that tip?
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 10:12
Some people need to calm down, take a chamomilla and think twice before writing because it’s obvious their feelings are too strong at the moment.

On a more serious note, the election for the 3 Deputy Speakers is set for June 8th.
It is done by STV. 1 Con and 2 Lab to elected and one of them must be a woman.
Labour Uncut has covered the situation (mainly from Labour side of the race).
George Howarth, Lindsay Hoyle, Tom Clarke and Dawn Primarolo will stand down. Marsha Singh is rumoured to join them but it hasn’t officially done it yet. On Tory side, the candidates are Roger Gale, Nigel Evans and Geoffrey Clifton-Brown.
Primarolo being the only woman is secure to get one place as long as she finds 6 people to nominate her.
by Andrea May 31st, 2010 at 10:13
glw @77:

The Telegraph is still a better paper than the Independent, Guardian or Times in my opinion, but no longer by a wide margin, and in absolute terms it has fallen far.

I used to think the same. But after a week of reading The Times after cancelling the DT, I can tell you that The Times is far better these days than in it’s early form as a tabloid. And it is much better than the DT.
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 10:14
This is tenuous but then most of the stuff against labour ministers was tenuous as well and i don’t remember smithson desperately trying to find the rules showing people hadn’t really done much wrong back then.

Very disappointed at the direction this site is taking
by Dan Smith May 31st, 2010 at 10:15
Dan Smith @82

I’m sure you can collect your refund on the way out
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 10:17
77 The Telegraph is all over the place.

The Coalition doesn’t actually have a problem with the right wing press per se. The News International Group is supportive.
by Sean Fear May 31st, 2010 at 10:17
80. Andrea - what happened to the prospect of one Lib Dem deputy speaker? I note that Beith is standing for re-election as chair of the Justice select committee.
by Jack Peterson May 31st, 2010 at 10:17
82 - Surely the implication of your post suggests the site is improving not declining!
by alex May 31st, 2010 at 10:17
82 OTOH, a lot of the allegations against Labour (and Conservative) MPs were well founded.

The problem is that the Telegraph mixed up the well-founded allegations with general mud-slinging.
by Sean Fear May 31st, 2010 at 10:18
FPT 214. Barking and Dagenham might not be a one-party council much longer, A Labour councillor who had gained in Richard Barnbrook’s Goresbrook ward didn’t realise that because she was an employee of Barking and Dagenham Council she wasn’t eligible to stand.
by DM Andy May 31st, 2010 at 10:18
O/T - is there a market on the Lib Dem deputy leadership contest? I’m trying to weigh what impact, if any, the events of the last couple of days might have on that. It’s possible - but no more than that - that the Laws episode might have hit Hughes’ momentum slightly.

Also, I’d be interested to hear (serious) assessments of how Michael Moore is likely to perform as Scottish Secretary. My sense is that he’ll do quite well, although Malcolm Bruce would have been my first choice (assuming Charlie Kennedy wasn’t available).
by Jack Peterson May 31st, 2010 at 10:22
I can say as a solid conservative who has not bought the telegraph for years that it is a toe rag of a paper. It would not no the principle of checking a story if it hit it on the head.

The whole ‘duck house’ for instance was a fantasy. Expenses were not paid for duck houses - the idiot MP just asked.

Perhaps the Telegraph will embark on an investigation in to the tax affairs of the Barclay Brothers.

A recall election? You have to have grounds first.
by TrevorsDen May 31st, 2010 at 10:22
THE Greek government has been advised by British economists to leave the euro and default on its €300 billion (£255 billion) debt to save its economy.

The Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR), a London-based consultancy, has warned Greek ministers they will be unable to escape their debt trap without devaluing their own currency to boost exports. The only way this can happen is if Greece returns to its own currency.

Greek politicians have played down the prospect of abandoning the euro, which could lead to the break-up of the single currency.

Speaking from Athens yesterday, Doug McWilliams, chief executive of the CEBR, said: “Leaving the euro would mean the new currency will fall by a minimum of 15%. But as the national debt is valued in euros, this would raise the debt from its current level of 120% of GDP to 140% overnight.
Related Links

* Spain races to avert banking crisis

* The Eurosceptic case for saving the euro

“So part of the package of leaving the euro must be to convert the debt into the new domestic currency unilaterally.”

Greece’s departure from the euro would prove disastrous for German and French banks, to which it owes billions of euros.

McWilliams called the move “virtually inevitable” and said other members may follow.

“The only question is the timing,” he said. “The other issue is the extent of contagion. Spain would probably be forced to follow suit, and probably Portugal and Italy, though the Italian debt position is less serious.

“Could this be the last weekend of the single currency? Quite possibly, yes.”

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 10:22
82. Dan Smith - “Very disappointed at the direction this site is taking”

You are not alone. The strange decline of PB.com has begun. But can Smithson stop the rot?

Ah hae ma doots.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 10:23
85- Jack Peterson. I don’t know. Official candidatures are to be presented along with supporting nominations the day before the election. However the fact that 3 Tories have joined the fray so far, it should mean that the 4th slot is for them and no LD afterall.
by Andrea May 31st, 2010 at 10:24
Tom Harris not a happy chappy

http://tinyurl.com/32r6rrs

Compare and contrast…

http://www6.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/05/08/has-brown-called-this-one-wrong/#comment-1611999
by Scott P May 31st, 2010 at 10:26
87. Sean F, I would totally agree and not which to minimise the crime of those that are currently going through the criminal justice system right now.

What Danny Alexander has done is completely legal, completely within the rules. But so was Blears and Ussher. The fact it was within the rules didn’t stop Mike and Oracle in particular really pushing on the story. The only thing different between Alexander and those Labour politicians is the colour of their rosette.

If people have realised that MPs organising their tax affairs to legally reduce the amount of tax they pay is not a real story then that’s great, an apology for their hypocrisy wouldn’t go amiss though.
by DM Andy May 31st, 2010 at 10:27
91 Ever since this site was founded, we’ve had people saying “it’s not as good as it used to be.”
by Sean Fear May 31st, 2010 at 10:27
65. Stephen B - “… ermined senescence…”

Sounds like something smelly that you might find on the sole of your brogue after a brisk walk in the country.
by Stuart Dickson May 31st, 2010 at 10:28
95. It has certainly gone downhill since I started posting !

Oh, wait…
by Scott P May 31st, 2010 at 10:28
The Telegraph has clearly become drunk with power over its “Expensesgate” scoop and the aftermath. Its subsequent attacks on the Coalition seem to be motivated also by an attempt to stop the proposed rise in CGT, at whatever cost to this country’s vital need to reduce the deficit and public debt.

Perhaps some of the Telegraph’s victims might consider taking legal action for libel ?
by raptor May 31st, 2010 at 10:32
Tee Hee. The telegraph guide to minimising CGT…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/2811055/Home-sweet-second-home.html
by Scott P May 31st, 2010 at 10:33
What JonC said at 58 - Dickson’s whinge is the main reason to avoid PB in the early morning.
by Blofeld's Cat May 31st, 2010 at 10:36
As I understand it Alexander bought the London flat in 1999 and sold it in 2007. He was elected to parliament in 2005, rented a constituency home for a year, and then bought one in 2006.

So there’s no CGT due because the flat was his only home until a year before he sold it.

Could those who think some tax should have been paid tell us how much the amount is?
by Adam Smith May 31st, 2010 at 10:37
raptor @98:

The Telegraph has clearly become drunk with power over its “Expensesgate” scoop

I think that’s a pretty good observation.

I have *no idea* what it’s editorial line is - it morphed into the we*heart*Gordon paper, recruited Rosa Prince et al and is infested with Labour supporting columnists/bloggers like Melissa Kite and Martin Salter.

It’s like reading some sort of schizophrenic tombola of opinions. I can’t read anything without first checking the by-line and adjusting my bias meter accordingly.

I much prefer and trust the Times - shame it’s a few hours before it goes behind a pay wall - I spend more time reading the comments than their articles which also says a lot for the quality of the MSM generally.
by Plato May 31st, 2010 at 10:42
77 glw - The Daily Telegraph has become a tabloid with big pages.I’d like to see a report on the Barclay Brothers’ measures for tax avoidance or does living on Sark but claiming residence in Monaco say it all?
by perdix May 31st, 2010 at 10:42
And down here in Brighton the press are going after the Greens:

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8179509.Caroline_Lucas_says_she_has_returned_Brighton_pebble/
by Carola May 31st, 2010 at 10:55
38 - “Mr. Dickson - you are my role model when its comes to objectivity.”

Snigger

although have to agree with Stu that getting the public to pay for your tax advice is not acceptable.
by floater May 31st, 2010 at 10:58
By signing up for govt - the LDs are fair game and I’m sure there are a lot more skeletons in closets.

The Telegraph isn’t going anywhere - infact with the Times now PPV its tentacles may grow.

POLDWAS
by The Ghost of Harry Flashman May 31st, 2010 at 11:00
103. Isn’t the law against stealing pebbles from Brighton beach going to be repealed in Clegg’s Great Freedom Bill? If not, it should be.
by DM Andy May 31st, 2010 at 11:00
64. Rules of media reporting.

1. Nothing bad ever happens in France, the leading country of the EU. The recent hurricane, for example which killed 100 French people was reported as a ‘European storm’.

2. Britain is a bad country which cannot even write and produce good songs any more. It is a country full of evil speculators who are bent on destroying the Euro. Her politicians are all homosexuals who fiddle their expenses.

3. In France the President is a stallion who believes in the Euro and keeps stable-fulls of women, who all wear flat shoes. He doesn’t need to fiddle expenses, as his friends are successful ‘businessmen’ who fund him out of public sight.

4. The Euro is permanent, even if it bankrupts the rest of the world in the process. France is AAA even if it isn’t. Napoleon Bonaparte was the greatest man who ever walked the face of the earth. Allez L’Euro! France is great once more.
by Tapestry May 31st, 2010 at 11:01
“The New Daily Star” - AKA The Telegraph, has got this one wrong!
by William May 31st, 2010 at 11:02
From the D/T 10 tips
Capital gains tax on selling a second home can be swingeing, but Teresa Hunter has a 10-point plan to minimise the pain

1. Don’t forget to claim expenses
Your taxable capital gain is the difference between what you buy and sell the property for. But you can add all professional estate agents and solicitor’s fees to the purchase price plus stamp duty and the cost of any money spent on improvements. Make sure you keep receipts for all these items.

2. Become a butterfly and flit between homes
Or in the jargon, switch “principal private residence” exemptions between properties. All gains on property are taxable with the exception of the home you live in which the taxman calls your principal private residence. However, if you own more than one home you can elect which you wish classed as your primary residence, provided there is some evidence that you have actually resided there, albeit shortly. If you live for even a matter of weeks at any stage in your “second” home, this enables you to write off the last three years of capital gains when you come to sell.

But the window for exploiting this loophole is tiny. You must elect which will be your primary residence within two years of the purchase of one of the various properties you own. Having made your choice, you can then change it. But if you fail to elect, the opportunity is lost.

Whiting says: “It is possible to play around with elections for a bit, but you need to be careful.”

Warburton adds: “Say you had owned your home for 20 years, and a holiday cottage for 18 years, and then last year you bought a third property. If you hadn’t already elected in respect of the first two, there would have been nothing you could do. But buying the third property opens up opportunities. You can still elect your main home your primary residence, but provided you elect within two years of the purchase of the new property, you can change the election on all three properties again in the future.

3. More relief the longer you own
Owners can also claim “taper” relief. If you have owned a property for three years, you cut the taxable gain by 5 per cent, and a further 5 per cent for each subsequent year, up to a maximum 40 per cent after 10 years.

4. Halve your gain via indexation
If the property was bought before 1982, then the revenue assumes you paid its value at April 1982, which wipes out any gains to that point. Between 1982 and 1998, a further indexation allowance is granted. As the retail prices doubled between these years, the revenue will write off that amount again for tax purposes.

5. Live in the property
Any extended period you live in the property reduces the CGT bill accordingly. For example, if you own a property for 17 years and lived in it for 12 years you will be liable for 12/17th of the tax bill, plus a further three years exemption (see above), wiping out 15 years worth of gain.

6. Move in before letting it out
It makes sense to at some stage live in a property you buy to let out. Not only can you gain three years exemption (see above), but you get a further £40,000 allowance to offset against any gain. A husband and wife both receive this allowance, allowing them to write off a further £80,000 of the gain provided they are joint owners.

As with the principal private residence election, how long you need to live there remains a moot point.

Whiting say: “There is nothing written in statute and in theory it could literally be a few days or a week. But you have to be able to establish as a matter of fact that you are living there.” Warburton adds: “There is a general consensus that three to four months should do it, but we feel comfortable with six months.”

7. Exploit personal allowances and minimise rates
Once you have reduced the gain as far as you can, each spouse can claim a CGT allowance currently £9,200, allowing a married couple to realise £18,400 property profits tax-free.

And don’t forget that tax is charged at your marginal rate, so make the most of any breaks available to an uwaged of low-paid spouse, or the lower taxes that can come in retirement.

Non-taxpayers, for example, pay no tax up to £5,225. They then pay 10 per cent tax on the first £2,230. Thereafter, they pay savings tax of 20 per cent (rather than basic rate of 22 per cent) up to £34,600, following which 40 per cent deductions kick in.

8. Offset other losses
If after this you are still facing a bill, take a look at your other assets, not least your share portfolio, to see if you are sitting on any losses. If you sell these shares in the same tax year and crystallise the loss, this can be offset against the property gain.

9. Offset local overseas taxes
If you are one of the 400,000 Brits who own a house or flat abroad but are resident for UK tax purposes, you are liable for CGT in exactly the same way as if the property was here, but you can claim the same exemptions. However, you may also find yourself liable for local property taxes. Where these have to be paid, they can be deducted from the UK bill.

10. Don’t get married!
Tax bills can arise where a couple each has a property when they meet but decide to rent one out when they move in together. Until they marry, they can enjoy two lots of “principal primary residence” exemptions, which probably solves their problem. But once they tie the knot they only have one between them. Once married, they must rely on the other exemptions listed above.

On the other hand, unmarried couples cannot transfer assets between each other free from CGT and capital gains tax as married couples can.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/2811055/Home-sweet-second-home.html
by John S May 31st, 2010 at 11:03
PB leads the way…

http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2010/05/danny-alexander-storm-in-teacup/

http://www.libdemvoice.org/danny-alexander-capital-gains-tax-19765.html
by Scott P May 31st, 2010 at 11:04
106 - I hope so, then maybe I’ll get an amnesty for the couple of bucket ‘n’ spadefuls in my garden.
by Carola May 31st, 2010 at 11:05
Scott P @99:

Tee Hee. The telegraph guide to minimising CGT

Great find. Goes to show that for all the talk about Labour’s machiavellian spin-doctoring, Campbell and Whelan really weren’t up to the job.

There we all were using unflattering expressions like “serial flippers”, when they could have had us talking about cabinet members flitting between homes like butterflies.
by Edmund in Tokyo May 31st, 2010 at 11:05
103

‘In 2003 the council held an amnesty, promising not to prosecute anyone who returned stones, shells or larger items to Brighton beach.’

Any idea what the council means by larger items?
by John F May 31st, 2010 at 11:06
The Telegraph is attacking Laws and Alexander as part of its attacks on the CGT proposals. They see this as a LibDem proposal and hope to destabilise the coalition by attacking the LibDems in the Treasury. Cameron & Clegg have to stand firm. I hope Laws is brought back into Government; I hope Alexander succeeds in his role. There is a sensible way of reforming CGT and I hope the coalition takes it and rebuts the absurd and hypocritical position of the Telegraph and others which simply amounts to “we must do something about the deficit but we mustn’t raise any taxes we might have to pay or cut any spending we benefit from”.
by Cyclefree May 31st, 2010 at 11:08
113 - well there’s not much of the West Pier left.
by Carola May 31st, 2010 at 11:09
Imagine my shock to discover a number of PB Tories and, sadly, LibDems are reacting hypocritically to the Laws and Alexander stories. Who would ever have thought that their previous attacks on Labour ministers over expenses were motivated by anything so sordid as pure partisanship? But it turns out that they were. Extraordinary.

Which party did the Telegraph advise its readers to vote for at the last election? I am pretty sure it wasn’t UKIP or Labour.
by Southam Observer May 31st, 2010 at 11:14
Sky News are still wibbling on about Alexander admitting using a tax loophole to avoid CGT.

As OGH demonstrated at the top of this thread no CGT was due. No loophole exploited.

Until we get informed reporting of this and other expenses reporting based on the facts rather than the supposed facts, the Telegraph will continue to make the running by exploiting general ignorance and antipathy towards MPs.
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 11:16
117. The Tories haven’t been that bad in general on double standards. It’s mainly the Lib Dems who bought into the line that as the Telegraph wasn’t having a go at them over expenses that their MPs were whiter than white. Of course the reason that the Telegraph didn’t go for the Lib Dems was because no-one cared about what Lib Dem MPs did.

There’s a good post over on conservativehome.com at the moment about the dangers of setting the wrongdoing bar too low. Lib Dems were involved in setting that bar and can’t really complain about bad publicity now.
by DM Andy May 31st, 2010 at 11:27
Objectively, I don’t think the Alexander story is going anywhere - the Government certainly won’t want to lose a second Chief Sec in a few days, and the rest of the media don’t want to boost the Telegraph unless a story is so powerful as to be impossible to ignore. Unless they’ve got more up their sleeve, the spotlight will move on.
by Nick Palmer May 31st, 2010 at 11:29
65 Just to second the remarks of Stephen B, if Danny Alexander was forced into a recall situation, he would almost certainly romp home and probably with a bigger majority. There is a huge amount of pride in Inverness at present that their man has taken such a prominent role in the coalition talks and been rewarded with a cabinet job. I may have said I thought as a constituency MP Danny is as useful as a chocolate teapot in the experience of my business friends and me but I have never suggested he isn’t hugely popular.

Personally I would like to see David Laws resign his seat on principle and seek re-election at a by-election with the Tories deciding not to oppose him, a bit like David Davis in reverse. We could then see Esther Rantzen or Kelvin MacKenzie or the like stand against him and enjoy David Laws romping home with an even larger majority.

What David Laws did may have been a breach of the rules for 3 years out of the 8 he claimed for but frankly given that if he had declared his boyfriend as his legal partner and been entitled to them claim even more than he did, frankly as a taxpayer, I consider what he did a more cost effective way of supporting a hard working and popular MP who is trying to improve things in this country for the vast majority of us.
by Easterross May 31st, 2010 at 11:29
Mr Smithson

Seeing that you admire the objectivity of Mr Dickson, I wonder if you would care to address the particular point he made about Mr Alexander’s expenses earlier in the thread.

Danny Boy might wriggle his way out of a CGT liability - still a bit of a tough one, morally, when he’s seeking to jack it up to 50% for everyone else - but isn’t he caught bang to rights claiming expenses for his accountant’s fees?

£1,500 is the threshold my local authority, Islington, sets on deciding whether to nick you for housing benefit fraud.

Perhaps this is all too much for large sections of your readership who appear to have taken against the Telegraph for bringing these matters to the public’s attention.

Your Teleglodytes - and that magnificent queen Mrs Dale who has showed remarkable commercial acumen exploiting the homophobic card - prefer to remain uninformed.

A bit more grit into eye. Danny Boy, prior to his gig at the Cairngorm’s, was a flak for the European Movement.

The odds must be tightening on whether he’ll survive the support of your Teleglodytes never mind continued membership of the cabinet.

And, by the way, like you, I avoid rather than evade. But we’re both not politicians.
by Michael Read May 31st, 2010 at 11:30
Nick Palmer @121:

Objectively, I don’t think the Alexander story is going anywhere

Just for once, I wish you could admit that a story about a political opponent is ‘not going anywhere’ simply because it has nowhere to go.

This is a Telegraph stitch up without needle or thread. It’s dishonest in content and vicious in intent.
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 11:32
Only point in Mike’s article I disagree with is this:

“Over the past fifteen months the Telegraph has done a great job with its MPs expenses investigation”
by MichaelK May 31st, 2010 at 11:36
Michael Read @123:

Danny Boy might wriggle his way out of a CGT liability

There was no ‘wriggle’ because there was no liability.
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 11:36
126 - A commenter on IainDale’s site put it most succinctly.

“As far as I can tell, there was no way he could possibly have organised his affairs that would have resulted in him being liable for CGT on that London flat. Whether he had become an MP or not, and whether he had ever claimed expenses or not. It had really been his main home before he was elected to parliament, so no CGT liabililty existed or ever could have.”
by alex May 31st, 2010 at 11:42
Stuart Dickson @ 4-
“As far as I can see the CGT stuff was within the letter (if not the spirit) of the law.”

“HOWEVER, the £1,800 he claimed in Parliamentary Exenses for a bill from his accountant for PERSONAL tax advice, and completion of his PERSONAL self-assessment form, is well beyond the pale. The condemnation of Labour ministers caught doing this was near-universal at PB. I wonder why so many PBers have now changed their tune?”
———————————————–

Stuart, as a partisan Labour supporter, and someone who in particular dislikes Danny Alexander greatly, after experience of him prior to him becoming an MP when he worked for a well known pressure group I was a member of, I would LOVE there to be a big story here and to see him have to resign.

I am however also a tax advisor and a pretty decent one at that. He has done absolutely nothing wrong on the CGT. He took proper advice on his tax position and acted within the spirit as well as the letter of the law. He had a rented home in Scotland until 2006, the flat in London was the ONLY home he owned until then so couldn’t be a second home under any reasonable definition in tax law. When sold in 2007, the flat would not have been subject to CGT whether it was first home or second home due to the three year rule which is an integral part of the definition not a loophole!

You are right that there is more of a story with his accountants bill. Not that I agree with the Telegraph line that MPs shouldn’t ever be able to claim back the cost of proper advice - their tax position being somewhere between that of an employee and a small business is a complex one and is made so by the nature of the job, it is therefore possible to make a case for it being a reclaimable expense in certain circumstances.

On the face of it, however, this was personal advice not related directly to him being an MP? But £1,800 is a big bill for a very simple piece of advice plus completion of a self assessment form! I cannot imagine charging more than 20% of that amount for that piece of advice and completion of a relatively simple self assessment return. So possibly he was given more detailed advice that did relate to his position as an MP?

Looks to me like he should be repaying the accountancy expense claim, or at least the part of it that related solely to personal advice. Even so that is a technical breach that would hardly require his resignation, especially if the accounts office were asked and approved the claim, which I would assume they were?
by Jonny Foreigner May 31st, 2010 at 11:51
123.Michael Read

You need to get your facts right there could not be any CGT liability in law so there is no wriggling in any event. While I don’t like the fact that tax advice was paid for out of our money this is not a particularly serious offence. Bear in mind the last Chancellor of the Exchequer - A Darling - and many of his colleagues claimed such costs. None of them resigned for this not even Darling who also avoided Stamp Duty and flipped homes.
by SLAM May 31st, 2010 at 11:53
Jonny Foreigner @128:

Not that I agree with the Telegraph line that MPs shouldn’t ever be able to claim back the cost of proper advice - their tax position being somewhere between that of an employee and a small business is a complex one and is made so by the nature of the job, it is therefore possible to make a case for it being a reclaimable expense in certain circumstances.

How can an MP’s tax position be both ‘complex’ and require the ‘completion of a relatively simple self assessment return’ at the same time?
by GeoffH May 31st, 2010 at 11:58
128 - JF he specifically stated that the tax advice did not relate to the sale of his property/CGT (and also i think the £1,800 was not one bill but presumably was over 4 years).
by alex May 31st, 2010 at 11:58
new thread
by MODERATOR May 31st, 2010 at 12:08
130 Geoff - it’s a simple form whether the tax position is complex or not and the complexity is enough to require proper advice but relates to a small number of transactions so shouldn’t result in a big bill!

131 Alex - sounds right to me, in similar instances I haven’t charged anything for the CGT advice itself as it didn’t save the client any money, their liability being nil anyway! Four years tax returns for an MP at £1800 would make sense and I don’t see the problem claiming it as they wouldn’t have to do a tax return if they were an ordinary employee and not an MP.
by Jonny Foreigner May 31st, 2010 at 12:15
Ignore 128/133 re-posted in new thread
by Jonny Foreigner May 31st, 2010 at 12:22
23 Easterross:
Did you read in Saturday’s Scotsman the article about the new Holyrood boundaries and the fact that Nicola looks toast?

Do you (or any other Scots Tories on here) want to comment on the fact that certain people in your party seem to want Annabel Goldie to be toast?
by Sara May 31st, 2010 at 15:45
I’m afraid this is the sort of reporting you get from the tabloid spivs that the Telegraph has covering politics nowadays
by James May 31st, 2010 at 19:55

politicalbetting.com

Should the Telegraph have checked with the HMRC first?

Are they trying too hard to find a story?

Mike Smithson

138 comments to “Should the Telegraph have checked with the HMRC first?”

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