440 Some ethnic groups (such as Turks and South Asians) are used to having to band together to confront mobs.

The reaction among Asians in Birmingham is entirely reasonable, and it would be fun to see them lynch a few looters, but there’d always be the risk of their getting the wrong people – so I hope they can be calmed down.

478 How often does one need to repeat that the poor and the needy don’t have the expensive consumer goods that the looters did.

490 Les, what riots? They’re mass lootings by criminal gangs. Smash, grab, run off to the next crime scene. Don’t hang around.

495 – they are symptomatic of the middle and upper class left who grow up with someone elses chip on their shoulder.

(OT) I have just received a letter from the BBC Complaints department in response to a programme I did not complain about which was broadcast 2 days after I sent my letter, claiming that I was complaining about the opposite of what I actually complained about.

501 – most toffs are. (No offence intended).

498. That’s a common misconception. Consumer goods do not make you wealthy.

http://leftoutside.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/even-rioters-with-blackberrys-can-be-poor/

Whoops, last post should have been for Watcher, sorry Monza

Here we go again…

@zerohedge
zerohedge Intesa Sanpaolo Halted Twice On French Downgrade Rumor, Euro Drops http://is.gd/cU2tlK

Right, have just heard about this moron Alexis Bailey.

Will happily pay for taxi for John Smeaton from Glasgow to sort this fool out.

Yours,

A Teacher.

FPT. Flockers post@251 has to be the post of the week, by far the most insightful over view of the events that have unfolded over the last few days.

Just caught up with the Gove vs Harman scrap on Newsnight, apparently the Shadow Cabinet team were huddled up in their Parliamentary abode all day yesterday plotting their moves. There is no doubt that we have seen some extremely impressive performances from local MP’s on the ground in London over recent days. And its clear that this is a time for the casting aside of partisan point scoring, and a time for the political establishment to stand together to bring calm and confidence back.

As deputy Labour leader, Harriet was obviously sent out to make the points about cuts while Ed Miliband distances from this and tries to appear as a Leader in waiting. And the very anger shown by Gove towards Harman last night not only showed that he was well aware of this tactic, but he also marked Labour’s card before Parliament in recalled on Thursday about trying to blame this three days of rioting and looting on the austerity cuts. And he did so very effectively by pointing out that Labour’s governance and policies in this area would not bear too much scrutiny, and some could say that this week was a direct result of their own failures.

But Flockers highlights the real underlying points that need to be addressed by all our politicians of all persuasions, and us the public. This is the big conversation that we all need to be having right now, and its not a time for political point scoring. We are where we are both socially and economically right now. And there no easy answers or easy money injections that can suddenly correct this problem, and any politician that tries to tell you that is lying. This is one of the times where it cannot simple be down to our politicians alone to fix the problem. Its also about what we can do to try and help fix our current social problems by taking more responsibility. And that mean starting at home as parents and realising that the State cannot sit at the end of the table and do the job for us.

Someone pointed out that democracy and law in this country is a contract of mutual trust and respect. It won’t work, and it won’t be fixed until we all accept some responsibility for that. And its that fine line that finally got broken this week, the government and Parliament have a duty to make sure they fulfil their duties in this from a Leadership, law and order perspective in the short term. But this is not a one street, and we need to rise up to the challenge as well. And I hope that anyone who then tries to blame or blackmail those riots on the current austerity cuts that designed to make sure the whole country weather this economic storm get the Gove hair dryer treatment they so deserve.

Because lets be honest, what we have unfold since Saturday night in London is anything but a short term problem that was brewed over 12 months and can be fixed in 12 days with more money thrown into the mix.

G @484:

Anger I imagine.

 
Undoubtedly.

But who with or against what? Far more likely to be with themselves, ot their parents or circumstances than against bankers or the undeserving rich.

Or is this too ‘middle class’ an interpretation.

Perhaps all it needs is for a mate to text you that things are kicking off downtown. Perhaps the response is just unthinking and automatic?

Max August 10th, 2011 at 13:33

You are showing a left wing prejudice there that right wingers do not value other nationalities and immigrants. Its not true.

We just dislike feckless lawbreaking parasites whether home grown or imported. Law abiding hard workers who look after their own are fine.

514 – I can’t find a link confirming he’s a teacher (or even a TA). Only that he works/works full time in a primary school. If he is a teacher he’ll be sacked. And rightly so.

511 dez, I thought you were on the beach with tim. Or has he left you behind to guard the bedsit while he’s ‘away’? All those Scouse looters prowling the streets must be a worry.

One thing we are missing in this poll, is the extraordinary stat that thirty-three percent of British people – one third – want the use of live ammunition on the looters.

ONE THIRD OF PEOPLE WANT RIOTERS SHOT DEAD.

Incredible. I said the public were way to the right of Cameron on this (let alone Labour), but… wow.

I hasten to add I don’t personally approve of the wholescale slaughter of rioters. Not yet, anyway.

Looter gets £150 fine:

“Student David Attoh, 18, from Retreat Place, Hackney, was caught on August 8 in Hackney, with two Burberry t-shirts.

Attoh, who the court heard has completed an ICT B-Tech at Hackney Community College and was due to have an interview for an apprenticeship on Tuesday, admitted theft by finding.

The student, who was fined £150, had been receiving Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) while completing his B-Tech, but over the summer was supported by his mother, the court heard.

Mr Marks told him: “Don’t get in trouble again.

“You have a bright future ahead of you, if you get into trouble again you are going to jeopardise that future.”"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/08/10/london-riots-teacher-31-pleads-guilty-to-looting-as-court-cases-start-115875-23334652/

519 – Riot is defined as being where 12 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence for a common purpose and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety.

Ergo it doesn’t need a political purpose.

517. How can a perception be valid? You either perceive something or you don’t. A perception can be mistaken but invalid?

518. Probably deep down they are motivated by anger with themselves and their families. But a conspiracy of the rich encompassing the police, bankers and the conservative party would represent a good external focus and a pseudo-justification. Once you’re part of it I imagine it’s adrenaline and a mob mentality.

211 – TSE, I doubt if you’ll get many takers saying yes, they’d go and loot a store if they thought they could get away with it. But the right question is more subtle – are there ANY laws that people have broken recently because they thought they could get away with it? Driving too fast? Taking drugs? Evading tax?

Each social group has some laws that are not respected. For many young urban teenagers, opportunist nicking stuff from shops is like driving on the motorway at 85 for many drivers – they’ve found they can do it, it helps them in a minor sort of way, they enjoy it, they know it’s illegal, and they do it anyway ‘coz they can and it makes them feel good.

Rioting – breaking windows, throwing stuff at the police, and so on, is another level – more like driving at 110 or when drunk, not something most people do since it’s potential manslaughter. That’s where most people can reasonably feel genuinely outraged and expect lengthy prison sentences..

Les @473
Capitalism = economic Darwinism, and thus as impossible to change as Canute found with the tides.

It’s why Socialism always fails, and always *will* fail.

527.

I imagine 99% of ordinary people in this country, Left and Right, are behind him. Just the Toynbees and the looter-scum who won’t be.

and tim

92-5

Will they last till tea?

“Alexis Bailey, a married English teacher has been banned from the profession for a year after she admitted grooming teenage pupils, a watchdog ruled” – http://tinyurl.com/3samj7k

Can’t be the same one surely?

Oh, and here’s a video of ‘teaching assistant’ walking into a lamp-post.

http://yfrog.com/evd8qmz

Rioting suggests the wider community is seriously unhappy and in that case you need to tread carefully for fear of inflaming the situation.

But in the overwhelming number of trouble spots you are just watching criminals who are hated by their own communities chancing their arms, there need not be a fear that the situation could escalate through overzealous policing, that won’t happen.

Cyclefree August 10th, 2011 at 14:07

i do agree. The magistrates and the judiciary have some considerable blame to shoulder in how this came about. Silly sentences and allowing the HRA to be used as a ‘get-out-of-jail-free’ card.

But if you are rich enough the same soft- touch judges will send others to prison if they reveal your moral bankruptcy.

542 – she should have been banned by the GTC. But then they’re useless, apart from sending you happy-clappy newsletters telling you how great teaching is. I had a long stand-off with the GTC for being pointless/toothless/gormless/gutless but still expecting me to pay a membership fee. In the end they took it directly from my account.

542: I don’t think they are the same people for the simple reason that one is male and the other is female.

528. What a pathetic sentence. No wonder the police can’t be bothered.

I may have misunderstood this (not currently in the country), but the riots appear to be confined to England, with thankfully none in Wales or Scotland. I understand that Scottish policemen are being sent to the Midlands and NE to assist local constabularies.

At the risk of throwing the cat among the pigeons, why is this the case and what does it say about the state of England?

Please don’t misinterpret this, I am genuinely curious as to people’s views.